Indonesian here, we have a saying “surga dibawah telapak kaki ibu” (heaven lies beneath mother’s feet). Supporting own parents is all great and noble unfortunately it creates a sandwich generation where kids need to look after their parents and own family. Some friends even decide not to get married at all because of this. Support them whenever we can but parents need to realise kids are not their pension. Personally my kids OWE NOTHING to us, their presence in our life is a gift in itself. Great vid Nicole, you got new subs!
I think filial piety as a 'must have' concept is outdated, and breeds narcissism. This narcissism - respect and obey me no matter what, if you don't you're ungrateful - gives these boomers some air of superiority over others. It's infuriating; you'll know how it is if you live with people like this. I do. I've always emphatised with people leaving parents at old folks' homes, and when people usually bash these children as 'self-centred' or 'not grateful', more often than not its the mask of anonymity and a very good relationship with their parents is the one speaking. Some parents can be totally not worth a second look, and just because 'they gave you life' is good enough reason to continue living with that? Sorry, there needs to be a better reason. I believe filial piety - like respect - is a two-way street. Everybody is an individual, and don't give me the 'blood is thicker than water' shtick either, because that quote has been horribly mangled in the years since it first appeared in the Bible. Family can be anyone and everyone.
I think it is relevant to a certain extent. IMO- None of us chose to be born. Our parents chose to do the dirty and bring us into the world. It is their responsibility to provide us with basic necessities - shelter + food + education + love I feel in a lot of culture, being born is like a debt you have to repay. We shouldn't have to repay them for providing the basics to keep us alive. "I gave you life, you should be grateful" - Well that was your decision, and if you had decided not to have me, I just simply would not have existed. BUT you should definitely repay them for going the extra mile for you, for proving you with life experiences and luxuries. They don't have to bring you on holiday or buy you the latest Iphone but they do because you are their child and it would make you happy. I think a lot of filial piety is borne out of guilt - not love/affection/want. More often than not, parents use guilt to get filial piety (and lot of other things, like validation of feelings etc). This is the only toxic thing about filial piety.
"I feel in a lot of culture, being born is like a debt you have to repay. We shouldn't have to repay them for providing the basics to keep us alive." THIS. When I was in middle/high school whenever we have "reflection session" they brainwash kids by saying maternity is hard, your mom sacrifice 9 months for you, showing videos how hard labor is, showing sappy videos and all that jazz. Not that Im not grateful, but I better off not being born rather than being guilt trip of that.
Everyone has to think and act a certain way in a collectivist system. If you don't, you're shamed or attacked for 'not being authentic enough' or not conforming. The worst part is, it's not like they are highly accomplished and can actually be an expert with a vast knowledge base, a jack of all trades, or someone very street smart that always knows what to do. Those are people you should listen to. They just think they know it all as narcissists and because the culture gave them a magical exalted status, that they have not earned, for no reason because they are someone's elder. They refuse to learn but they always have to be right and know more, when they don't, so there is never any growth.
When the objective of having children is just coz that's what everyone was doing. When those parents had no idea of how to actually raise children. When they realised they had more than they should, children suddenly turned into a 'retirement plan' or basically 'giving birth to a personal slave'. Then suddenly turning around to guilt trip and abuse you to comply to the expectations of filial piety for the next 20-30 years after only 17+ years of 'raising you'. Looks like a good investment for parents and a hellish life for the child.
It gets worse. They see their in law and your kids as their servants too. Kids to them aren't just a personal slave and retirement plan, but a true extension of their narcissism, and everything is about them and what they want. They push you so hard because in their mind, your success equals their success too, so they can take credit and brag about to others, but the goalposts are always moved.
If you respect me, I will respect you and I would warn my daughter to stay away from a filial son. If he's not willing to put you first, then your kids when you have kids in that order, he doesn't deserve you. Filial piety has no place in a modern society.
Imo fillial piety is only toxic when your parents values are imposed on you and anything else is considered as unfilial. It's like my way or the high way kinda situation, which I'm sure most of us would have grown up with. As we become more open in our thinking , we can see parents of millennials engaging their children as friends rather than force feeding their believes down their throats.
Which is the opposite end of same shitty parenting. Engage them yes but friend no. Parents gotta parent. This is why youngsters lack discipline and civil awareness. Spoiling their kids too much...
If it's "filial piety" as defined in 4:44, then yes, it *is* toxic. Leaving The FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) website and the Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect book makes for eye-opening reading.
Also "reinventing your life". My ex psychologist gave me an excerpt and for the first time i felt a little comfort that I wasn't alone(Many others went thru similar shyt for this book to exist).
Going to hospital in America: "Here's your bill. You owe us $300,000" Being born in Asia: "Here's your bill. You owe us your existence $300,000" It's a joke. Don't overreact lol
i think, the main problem of asian parents are they focus and amplify the negative side of their kid hoping the shame and humiliation can force the kid to move towards a positive path to conform with society. This is no longer going to work for most kids this days as kids are looking to be unique and "first". Finally, i would like to say, our parents didn't have internet nor professional help readily available like us so instead of pointing fingers, lets be better parents ourselves, keep the good stuff that we learn from parent and take away the obsolete teaching from our past generations.
Their biggest mistake was thinking you can shame, humiliate, and hound your kids to be successful. What horrible, miserable people. When basic emotional needs are not being met, the fullest potential may never be reached and there will be resentment for life.
Can we just talk about the production value! This was great. I listen to my parents but sometimes if they make a mistake or say something insensitive i ask them acknowledge and apologize for it ah. Can’t always just ignore if not nobody can grow as people imo. I’m an adult they’re adults we should be able to speak freely.
Try it with toxic narc parents/siblings. You ask them acknowledge it they bring out all the excuse, this is their house,they provide you food, other parents are worse blahblahblah. Much less apologize.
I like this! Please continue with more content like this! I'm nearing my 50s and I think this discussion series is good for both the young and older folks.
@@OGS.Official As someone who is brought up with the concept of filial piety ingrained in the family, I just felt that it has become part of me and my upbringing. I feel a sense of responsibility to give back to my own parents which I still do and take care of them when they are old and infirmed. I however do not expect my own son to take care of me when I'm old, times are different, I do not want to give him any pressure if he is unable to contribute financially or otherwise, that is why I want to make sure I have enough for my retirement and that I am healthy to enjoy it.
Yup but if you read more into 道德经and三字经，you'll find toxic shyt related to FP. I rmb smthg like correct your parents if they are wrong. But if they dont listen, we're supposed to just let it be. Or else we will cross boundary of FP. wtf?so we r just suppose to accept and let them cross our boundaries and disrespect us?
There is some parents that don't deserve to be respect. Imagine those children who throw into orphanage home. Do you respect those parent? How about the parent who can't throw to orphanage home unable provide love and care for children. So not every parent deserves respect. Authority is not true love.
What is most cringy is some people, especially celebrities, make it a news about how sad they are being aboard and missed seeing, for example, their grandparents for the last time. As if they are so filial. But the reality is that they are having the time of their lives aboard and totally left the chores of caregiver to whoever was left behind with the grandparents. And these are the same people who appear maybe once or twice a year to see the elders and then question the caregivers if they are properly taking care of the elders.
Don't mean to write an essay 😂 But think this argument is more from the perspective of the child. Shouldn't we take into account the parents' way of thinking as well? Surely whatever they've experienced is not for nothing. We live in very different times from them and we are exposed to vastly different values. Especially western values where it's more self-focused rather than focusing on others. But can we blame them? Parents aren't perfect; we are all human. Obviously anything done to the extreme is toxic (such as the anecdotes shared). The same can be said of the opposite - extreme lack of filial piety. Of course in SG, it's harder to get away from the incessant nagging compared to other developed countries. Interesting series concept though. Looking forward to more episodes :)
Riddle me this, Does the experiences of the parent justify their bullshit? So, if a hypothetical person grew up in dire straits and abuse, is he justified being an uncouth sicko? Would any violent acts they commit be ok? No? Then why then should we excuse toxic parents? And yes, we can indeed blame them seeing as humans are still accountable for their action.
Personally, I think filial piety should not have been relevant at all. Ultimately, no one chose to be born and parents should not demand respect or any form of gratitude in return from their offspring just because you raised them up. To be a parent, you should have made that decision knowing that it is a thankless job and if your children do decide to give back, it is a bonus. Ideally, that is what I feel the way things should have been. Being a young adult myself, having my parents expect me to give them allowance to support them, I do try my best to give whenever I can. However, I think at the end of the day, we have our own battles to fight - be it saving up for my own future and them - saving up for their retirement. Perhaps having better planning before you decide to have kids goes a long way. My two cents.
Filial piety only works in a perfect universe where the parents hold a balance of recognising their children as free thinking decision making adults; and the children responding with gratitude to the role their parents played in forming them (in a positive way). More often however, Filial piety DOES NOT transplate to just money. It's the constant refrain of being a failure, comparisons, being pushed to do things that you don't want to do (i.e. be a doctor) - at the complete sacrifice of personal choice. It's the reinforcement from childhood that "you don't know what you want, we know what's best, do as we say because if you don't then you don't love us and are not filial". It is not a willing outpouring of gratitude and care. In it's worse forms becomes manipulation and psychological torture. To be 30 years old and still not know where who I am as a person begins and where my parent's decisions and choices start is horrifying. The assumption that this only hurts the child is wrong too. Parents feel entitled - and strongly so - to be the center of their children's universe. Our parents (Gen Ys-Boomers) are incredibly lonely people; children become the only source of outlet and frustration. Parent's become defined by the role of "parent" - and their achievement and being is entertwined by their children's actions. Which can be bad for everyone all round. No one is responsible for another person's happiness. So yeah, I think filial piety is a crock of bullshit. A pretty way of describing enmeshment and the controlling, sometimes obsessive need asian parents have over their children's lives. Not saying it's bad in it's original form. But not how I've seen it play out in mine and other's lives.
It's a reciprocal thing. And some kind of give and take. To take, you need to give first. You can't be treating your child badly and expect them to be filial to give you want you want. Before taking about filial piety nobody ever mention parental care. The reason for them to give birth to you will determine if filial piety will be use as a form of toxic act or not. Most asian parents went thru arranged marriage which didn't turn out to develop love. And the child the outcome of a disfunctional relationship is often deem as investment plan where they could gain something from this dissatisfying family. This became toxic. If a child is born with love and the parents nurture the child, filial piety would naturally be a form of reciprocal act that comes naturally.
My OPINION regarding East Asian parents in particular, bring an only child, is that they birthed you for selfish reasons: taking care of their emotional needs as they age and becoming even more illogical ( which is a LOT in my circumstances and for which I am thankful that being the only one) ~ if the parental unit is no longer a unit, and for whatever reason have not found a replacement for their lost spouse, the child becomes their spouse (emotionally - we are not inbred incestuous animals) which is exhausting…. Also, my parents didn’t have more than one child because they both hate children, and there we go
I hate how asian parents treat their daughters always body shaming them asking them to do household chores etc. Must be sweetpretty know how to cook and do household chores. 🙄
In Eastern classical culture, filial piety is the greatest virtue and one of the only virtues that can move the Gods, on the contrary, and being unfilial is the greatest sin and one of the only sins the Gods would personally punish.
Toxic to a certain extent but not always. Just have to take both parent's and children's perspectives and try to come to an agreement. I have encountered those who chose not to be filial to their parents and sorry to say that their lives are not smooth sailing. But there is definitely a line where parents should not cross, this does not mean that we are not filial because everyone has their own boundaries. Great topic, looking forward to the next episode
My personal opinion, younger generations are heavily brainwashed with filial piety thru all sorts of media portrayal, for example take kabhie kushi kabhie gham, if you watch the movie, you can see how toxic the father is to his own kids and how manipulative he is until the end of movie. but people praise the movie as a masterpiece that shows how family value is done. If you are a Malay, just wait till Eid, and you can see all sort of movies depicting parents = good, sons and daughter in law = bad. Much more worst when religion is involved. For example, the usual muslim parents will say "heaven under mother's feet" to basically destroy any arguments a kid might have. If you are married, its much more worst, the mother could go at war with the in laws for the sake of controlling her own son/daughter . The best part is, Islam itself do say how important to respect and be kind to the parents but it never said to fully obey your parents. Obey only God , be kind to your parents and be responsible to your family unit. But the parents will twist and turn it into mainly them and them only
I still love my parents, although they would probably be considered "abusive" parents from a white American's perspective. But they showered me with "Asian" love, and I'm thankful to them for raising me this way with so much expectations.
I see many people online joking about Asian parents or Hispanic parents beating them when they do something wrong. I'm gonna assume this is one of the 'Asian love' things you're talking about. Beating a child is one of the proven negative influences on a child. There are facts and evidence that shows beating/caning etc. can lead to mental health problems (I'd like to stress on this one. I'm not sure if I have this problem but I'm pretty sure I do. Parents aren't as progressive and WILL deny you have depression, anxiety and others.), aggressive behaviour, bad coping mechanisms, emotional problems and physical injury. One of these is bad enough. I've been hit as a child and so was my brother. After we hit out pre-teens, it stopped, but the shouting (more like raised voice) continued. It still happens. Shouting and beating is NOT considered 'abuse' in countries like Singapore (probably, mostly). But now I'm dealing with inability to cope with the shouting (I don't even feel comfortable using this word), inability to cope with my high amounts of stress daily. Whenever mother leaves the house, I feel relieved and glad and the stress decreases. I promised myself to understand my emotions properly so my mind doesn't end up collapsing. That's how I realised that I was always watching my mother for moods changes, trying to detect her moods so I can find the appropriate way to act around her. I just have to keep telling myself everything will be better one day. I don't know how bad all this is compared to other people, but I even treasure and love (not romantically, of course!) my possessions more than my own parents. I haven't talked about my dad at all. He's a good father, I guess. He takes care of me and my brother. He is always willing to buy us food from wherever, let us watch whatever show we wanted. He just wasn't there for us emotionally now. He used to play with us when we were children and now I find myself yearning for those days. (Wow, typing this all out makes me realise how fucked up everything is.) In the end, it depends on how well 'Asian parenting' works for you. Some say they're glad they were raised that way and were not impacted negatively. However, I think otherwise. You ARE impacted negatively, you just either don't realise it or are in denial. Or maybe you have no problems at all. In that case, lucky you. P.s. I did not know how it progressed so quickly.
Volitions is intentions Reasonableness is to reciprocate Legal = parents cannot kill child(after birth, science, established norms as concious and sentient, legal entity) = parents do Not own child before legal age = after legal age, the teenager is fully responsible for himself/herself in words and deeds Context = Parents deliberately sabotage child with poor upbringing and yet want to pretend to be good to get the child to support the parents Decipher the volitions-intentions-motives of the parents, with the same Objective-motive, reciprocate in sequence, with the same heft(or lesser) = reasonableness Child to be filial to Spiritually-destroyed parents in subsequent life and not current life. Lower-than-humans(spiritually-destroyed cannot afford the negative-Kamma of the spiritually-higher normal-humans and spiritually-superior making concessions for them-lower) Spiritually-Lower cannot afford to claim anything on earth. Child is born with no-parents when both biological-parents are spiritually-destroyed
Exactly why they have responsibility to nurture a functional/independent adult. If they fail they should be responsible for the dysfunctional adult they cause. Also it's 21 in spore. Murica is 18.
Isn't it common sense to respect and take care of your parents when you grow up and they are old,considering that they are the one who raised you.(albeit they raised and treated you properly)
I want my kids to some day become independent and get their own life, but as long as they live under my roof they have to follow my rules. They can pack their bags and leave whenever they feel like.
I think filial is define or experience wrongly by the left nicole. Filial comes from within & honestly need to be taught. The rest is up to the child. I luv to take care of my parents. I wish I could do it forever. Unfortunately life hv a expiry date. Honestly, most people truly understand what their parents intent when they themselves become a parent. I am 48.
The background music is something that makes really hard time to understand what are you speaking, maybe is your accent and your voice tone! whats the purpose of music in background of a podcast?
Filial piety should be something beautiful. Not otherwise. Parents and children have to work hand in hand to achieve all the best things in life. We, as children out here are working hard to be the best in everything. Please show us some patience and understanding. We can only make it, only through our parents' genuine support.
this giving money back to parents is not an asian thing! it's a singapore and probably msia thing, go to other countries like china and there's no such thing
Indonesian here, we have a saying “surga dibawah telapak kaki ibu” (heaven lies beneath mother’s feet). Supporting own parents is all great and noble unfortunately it creates a sandwich generation where kids need to look after their parents and own family. Some friends even decide not to get married at all because of this. Support them whenever we can but parents need to realise kids are not their pension. Personally my kids OWE NOTHING to us, their presence in our life is a gift in itself. Great vid Nicole, you got new subs!
I think filial piety as a 'must have' concept is outdated, and breeds narcissism.
This narcissism - respect and obey me no matter what, if you don't you're ungrateful - gives these boomers some air of superiority over others. It's infuriating; you'll know how it is if you live with people like this. I do.
I've always emphatised with people leaving parents at old folks' homes, and when people usually bash these children as 'self-centred' or 'not grateful', more often than not its the mask of anonymity and a very good relationship with their parents is the one speaking. Some parents can be totally not worth a second look, and just because 'they gave you life' is good enough reason to continue living with that? Sorry, there needs to be a better reason.
I believe filial piety - like respect - is a two-way street. Everybody is an individual, and don't give me the 'blood is thicker than water' shtick either, because that quote has been horribly mangled in the years since it first appeared in the Bible. Family can be anyone and everyone.
Thank you. This kind of malignant narcissism can not be accepted as normal, but it is in our culture.
I think it is relevant to a certain extent.
IMO-
None of us chose to be born.
Our parents chose to do the dirty and bring us into the world.
It is their responsibility to provide us with basic necessities - shelter + food + education + love
I feel in a lot of culture, being born is like a debt you have to repay. We shouldn't have to repay them for providing the basics to keep us alive.
"I gave you life, you should be grateful" - Well that was your decision, and if you had decided not to have me, I just simply would not have existed.
BUT you should definitely repay them for going the extra mile for you, for proving you with life experiences and luxuries. They don't have to bring you on holiday or buy you the latest Iphone but they do because you are their child and it would make you happy.
I think a lot of filial piety is borne out of guilt - not love/affection/want. More often than not, parents use guilt to get filial piety (and lot of other things, like validation of feelings etc). This is the only toxic thing about filial piety.
"I feel in a lot of culture, being born is like a debt you have to repay. We shouldn't have to repay them for providing the basics to keep us alive." THIS. When I was in middle/high school whenever we have "reflection session" they brainwash kids by saying maternity is hard, your mom sacrifice 9 months for you, showing videos how hard labor is, showing sappy videos and all that jazz. Not that Im not grateful, but I better off not being born rather than being guilt trip of that.
I mean.. if you were an accident, technically they didn’t want you either-
Facts
@@Insorainity they had the choice to abort the child then
@@longangrysausage3495 Yep! Or practiced safe sex.
If you brought a child into the world (pruposefully or accidentally), still your responsibility 😅
The phrase “Older people are wiser” assumes that all older people think alike
Everyone has to think and act a certain way in a collectivist system. If you don't, you're shamed or attacked for 'not being authentic enough' or not conforming. The worst part is, it's not like they are highly accomplished and can actually be an expert with a vast knowledge base, a jack of all trades, or someone very street smart that always knows what to do. Those are people you should listen to. They just think they know it all as narcissists and because the culture gave them a magical exalted status, that they have not earned, for no reason because they are someone's elder. They refuse to learn but they always have to be right and know more, when they don't, so there is never any growth.
When the objective of having children is just coz that's what everyone was doing. When those parents had no idea of how to actually raise children. When they realised they had more than they should, children suddenly turned into a 'retirement plan' or basically 'giving birth to a personal slave'.
Then suddenly turning around to guilt trip and abuse you to comply to the expectations of filial piety for the next 20-30 years after only 17+ years of 'raising you'.
Looks like a good investment for parents and a hellish life for the child.
It gets worse. They see their in law and your kids as their servants too. Kids to them aren't just a personal slave and retirement plan, but a true extension of their narcissism, and everything is about them and what they want. They push you so hard because in their mind, your success equals their success too, so they can take credit and brag about to others, but the goalposts are always moved.
If you respect me, I will respect you and I would warn my daughter to stay away from a filial son. If he's not willing to put you first, then your kids when you have kids in that order, he doesn't deserve you. Filial piety has no place in a modern society.
Imo fillial piety is only toxic when your parents values are imposed on you and anything else is considered as unfilial. It's like my way or the high way kinda situation, which I'm sure most of us would have grown up with. As we become more open in our thinking , we can see parents of millennials engaging their children as friends rather than force feeding their believes down their throats.
Which is the opposite end of same shitty parenting. Engage them yes but friend no. Parents gotta parent. This is why youngsters lack discipline and civil awareness. Spoiling their kids too much...
If it's "filial piety" as defined in 4:44, then yes, it *is* toxic.
Leaving The FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) website and the Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect book makes for eye-opening reading.
I’d like to add “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” to that list of books
@@LeonTai Sounds like there's more than one of us who has been through the wringer re family dynamics.
Thanks for the book rec :)
Also "reinventing your life".
My ex psychologist gave me an excerpt and for the first time i felt a little comfort that I wasn't alone(Many others went thru similar shyt for this book to exist).
Going to hospital in America: "Here's your bill. You owe us $300,000"
Being born in Asia: "Here's your bill. You owe us your existence $300,000"
It's a joke. Don't overreact lol
Asian parents raise kids because they want someone to take care of them after when they get older
i think, the main problem of asian parents are they focus and amplify the negative side of their kid hoping the shame and humiliation can force the kid to move towards a positive path to conform with society. This is no longer going to work for most kids this days as kids are looking to be unique and "first". Finally, i would like to say, our parents didn't have internet nor professional help readily available like us so instead of pointing fingers, lets be better parents ourselves, keep the good stuff that we learn from parent and take away the obsolete teaching from our past generations.
Their biggest mistake was thinking you can shame, humiliate, and hound your kids to be successful. What horrible, miserable people. When basic emotional needs are not being met, the fullest potential may never be reached and there will be resentment for life.
Can we just talk about the production value! This was great. I listen to my parents but sometimes if they make a mistake or say something insensitive i ask them acknowledge and apologize for it ah. Can’t always just ignore if not nobody can grow as people imo. I’m an adult they’re adults we should be able to speak freely.
Try it with toxic narc parents/siblings.
You ask them acknowledge it they bring out all the excuse, this is their house,they provide you food, other parents are worse blahblahblah. Much less apologize.
@@RonLarhz yes
My parents always say they should have given birth to a piece of char siew...
Be like char siew. Be the char siew.
Char siew takes alot of skill to bbq right leh. Your parents praising themselves uh? 🤣
Only if they are char siew.
I like this! Please continue with more content like this! I'm nearing my 50s and I think this discussion series is good for both the young and older folks.
Thank you :) I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on filial piety? Do you think it is still relevant in the 21st century?
@@OGS.Official As someone who is brought up with the concept of filial piety ingrained in the family, I just felt that it has become part of me and my upbringing. I feel a sense of responsibility to give back to my own parents which I still do and take care of them when they are old and infirmed. I however do not expect my own son to take care of me when I'm old, times are different, I do not want to give him any pressure if he is unable to contribute financially or otherwise, that is why I want to make sure I have enough for my retirement and that I am healthy to enjoy it.
@@weeliano
Rare boomer. 👍🏻
Your use of 阿亮's song and its Confucius-inspired lyrics really brings back memories man...
Yup but if you read more into 道德经and三字经，you'll find toxic shyt related to FP. I rmb smthg like correct your parents if they are wrong. But if they dont listen, we're supposed to just let it be. Or else we will cross boundary of FP.
wtf?so we r just suppose to accept and let them cross our boundaries and disrespect us?
There is some parents that don't deserve to be respect.
Imagine those children who throw into orphanage home. Do you respect those parent? How about the parent who can't throw to orphanage home unable provide love and care for children.
So not every parent deserves respect. Authority is not true love.
What is most cringy is some people, especially celebrities, make it a news about how sad they are being aboard and missed seeing, for example, their grandparents for the last time. As if they are so filial. But the reality is that they are having the time of their lives aboard and totally left the chores of caregiver to whoever was left behind with the grandparents. And these are the same people who appear maybe once or twice a year to see the elders and then question the caregivers if they are properly taking care of the elders.
THIS!!!
Don't mean to write an essay 😂 But think this argument is more from the perspective of the child. Shouldn't we take into account the parents' way of thinking as well? Surely whatever they've experienced is not for nothing.
We live in very different times from them and we are exposed to vastly different values. Especially western values where it's more self-focused rather than focusing on others. But can we blame them? Parents aren't perfect; we are all human.
Obviously anything done to the extreme is toxic (such as the anecdotes shared). The same can be said of the opposite - extreme lack of filial piety.
Of course in SG, it's harder to get away from the incessant nagging compared to other developed countries.
Interesting series concept though. Looking forward to more episodes :)
Riddle me this, Does the experiences of the parent justify their bullshit? So, if a hypothetical person grew up in dire straits and abuse, is he justified being an uncouth sicko? Would any violent acts they commit be ok? No? Then why then should we excuse toxic parents? And yes, we can indeed blame them seeing as humans are still accountable for their action.
'Ur mother is wireless' is my go-to insult moving forward from here
Personally, I think filial piety should not have been relevant at all. Ultimately, no one chose to be born and parents should not demand respect or any form of gratitude in return from their offspring just because you raised them up. To be a parent, you should have made that decision knowing that it is a thankless job and if your children do decide to give back, it is a bonus. Ideally, that is what I feel the way things should have been. Being a young adult myself, having my parents expect me to give them allowance to support them, I do try my best to give whenever I can. However, I think at the end of the day, we have our own battles to fight - be it saving up for my own future and them - saving up for their retirement. Perhaps having better planning before you decide to have kids goes a long way. My two cents.
Filial piety only works in a perfect universe where the parents hold a balance of recognising their children as free thinking decision making adults; and the children responding with gratitude to the role their parents played in forming them (in a positive way).
More often however, Filial piety DOES NOT transplate to just money. It's the constant refrain of being a failure, comparisons, being pushed to do things that you don't want to do (i.e. be a doctor) - at the complete sacrifice of personal choice. It's the reinforcement from childhood that "you don't know what you want, we know what's best, do as we say because if you don't then you don't love us and are not filial".
It is not a willing outpouring of gratitude and care. In it's worse forms becomes manipulation and psychological torture. To be 30 years old and still not know where who I am as a person begins and where my parent's decisions and choices start is horrifying.
The assumption that this only hurts the child is wrong too. Parents feel entitled - and strongly so - to be the center of their children's universe. Our parents (Gen Ys-Boomers) are incredibly lonely people; children become the only source of outlet and frustration. Parent's become defined by the role of "parent" - and their achievement and being is entertwined by their children's actions. Which can be bad for everyone all round. No one is responsible for another person's happiness.
So yeah, I think filial piety is a crock of bullshit. A pretty way of describing enmeshment and the controlling, sometimes obsessive need asian parents have over their children's lives. Not saying it's bad in it's original form. But not how I've seen it play out in mine and other's lives.
It's a reciprocal thing. And some kind of give and take. To take, you need to give first. You can't be treating your child badly and expect them to be filial to give you want you want. Before taking about filial piety nobody ever mention parental care. The reason for them to give birth to you will determine if filial piety will be use as a form of toxic act or not. Most asian parents went thru arranged marriage which didn't turn out to develop love. And the child the outcome of a disfunctional relationship is often deem as investment plan where they could gain something from this dissatisfying family. This became toxic. If a child is born with love and the parents nurture the child, filial piety would naturally be a form of reciprocal act that comes naturally.
Everyone here is complaining about parents but one day they will realise having parents is blessings.
I love my Mother and Father.
u missed the point hun, if ur parents are abusive would u still love them?
speak for yourself
@@princessbinuya6162 I love them even if they cut me into thousand pieces.
I love them no mater what.
I will never believe having parents is a blessing. It is a nightmare. I hope I never have them.
My OPINION regarding East Asian parents in particular, bring an only child, is that they birthed you for selfish reasons: taking care of their emotional needs as they age and becoming even more illogical ( which is a LOT in my circumstances and for which I am thankful that being the only one) ~ if the parental unit is no longer a unit, and for whatever reason have not found a replacement for their lost spouse, the child becomes their spouse (emotionally - we are not inbred incestuous animals) which is exhausting…. Also, my parents didn’t have more than one child because they both hate children, and there we go
I hate how asian parents treat their daughters always body shaming them asking them to do household chores etc. Must be sweetpretty know how to cook and do household chores. 🙄
In Eastern classical culture, filial piety is the greatest virtue and one of the only virtues that can move the Gods, on the contrary, and being unfilial is the greatest sin and one of the only sins the Gods would personally punish.
How often when we question and get to the bottom of things, we end up getting the “you ungrateful wise-ass-cracking little twat” card? 🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪❤️🙏🏼
Toxic to a certain extent but not always. Just have to take both parent's and children's perspectives and try to come to an agreement. I have encountered those who chose not to be filial to their parents and sorry to say that their lives are not smooth sailing. But there is definitely a line where parents should not cross, this does not mean that we are not filial because everyone has their own boundaries. Great topic, looking forward to the next episode
How do you agree with a unhinged despot?
Agree to disagree may just be the most educational series I have ever watched this year
What do you think? Is filial piety still relevant today? Do you agree or disagree with Nicole? Tell us in the comments below!
but both sides of the argument were presented by Nicole! Oh the conundrum!
the editing, the set..!!!!!
My personal opinion, younger generations are heavily brainwashed with filial piety thru all sorts of media portrayal, for example take kabhie kushi kabhie gham, if you watch the movie, you can see how toxic the father is to his own kids and how manipulative he is until the end of movie. but people praise the movie as a masterpiece that shows how family value is done. If you are a Malay, just wait till Eid, and you can see all sort of movies depicting parents = good, sons and daughter in law = bad.
Much more worst when religion is involved. For example, the usual muslim parents will say "heaven under mother's feet" to basically destroy any arguments a kid might have. If you are married, its much more worst, the mother could go at war with the in laws for the sake of controlling her own son/daughter . The best part is, Islam itself do say how important to respect and be kind to the parents but it never said to fully obey your parents. Obey only God , be kind to your parents and be responsible to your family unit. But the parents will twist and turn it into mainly them and them only
Especially, in Asian family, marriages more than just unifying *two individuals* , but also *unifying entire spouse's families*
I still love my parents, although they would probably be considered "abusive" parents from a white American's perspective. But they showered me with "Asian" love, and I'm thankful to them for raising me this way with so much expectations.
Examples?
I see many people online joking about Asian parents or Hispanic parents beating them when they do something wrong. I'm gonna assume this is one of the 'Asian love' things you're talking about. Beating a child is one of the proven negative influences on a child. There are facts and evidence that shows beating/caning etc. can lead to mental health problems (I'd like to stress on this one. I'm not sure if I have this problem but I'm pretty sure I do. Parents aren't as progressive and WILL deny you have depression, anxiety and others.), aggressive behaviour, bad coping mechanisms, emotional problems and physical injury. One of these is bad enough.
I've been hit as a child and so was my brother. After we hit out pre-teens, it stopped, but the shouting (more like raised voice) continued. It still happens. Shouting and beating is NOT considered 'abuse' in countries like Singapore (probably, mostly). But now I'm dealing with inability to cope with the shouting (I don't even feel comfortable using this word), inability to cope with my high amounts of stress daily. Whenever mother leaves the house, I feel relieved and glad and the stress decreases. I promised myself to understand my emotions properly so my mind doesn't end up collapsing. That's how I realised that I was always watching my mother for moods changes, trying to detect her moods so I can find the appropriate way to act around her. I just have to keep telling myself everything will be better one day. I don't know how bad all this is compared to other people, but I even treasure and love (not romantically, of course!) my possessions more than my own parents.
I haven't talked about my dad at all. He's a good father, I guess. He takes care of me and my brother. He is always willing to buy us food from wherever, let us watch whatever show we wanted. He just wasn't there for us emotionally now. He used to play with us when we were children and now I find myself yearning for those days.
(Wow, typing this all out makes me realise how fucked up everything is.)
In the end, it depends on how well 'Asian parenting' works for you. Some say they're glad they were raised that way and were not impacted negatively. However, I think otherwise. You ARE impacted negatively, you just either don't realise it or are in denial. Or maybe you have no problems at all. In that case, lucky you.
P.s. I did not know how it progressed so quickly.
@coldfrenchfry5181 That's what our abuse has turned into, a joke for everyone to have a laugh.
Amazing examples you gave! Especially 子曰 and Adam Khoo
BRB gonna re evaluate all my life choices
So cool!!!
Thank for this amazing video!!!
😅
cool cool
This was so good I watched it on normal speed
Volitions is intentions
Reasonableness is to reciprocate
Legal = parents cannot kill child(after birth, science, established norms as concious and sentient, legal entity) = parents do Not own child before legal age = after legal age, the teenager is fully responsible for himself/herself in words and deeds
Context = Parents deliberately sabotage child with poor upbringing and yet want to pretend to be good to get the child to support the parents
Decipher the volitions-intentions-motives of the parents, with the same Objective-motive, reciprocate in sequence, with the same heft(or lesser) = reasonableness
Child to be filial to Spiritually-destroyed parents in subsequent life and not current life. Lower-than-humans(spiritually-destroyed cannot afford the negative-Kamma of the spiritually-higher normal-humans and spiritually-superior making concessions for them-lower)
Spiritually-Lower cannot afford to claim anything on earth. Child is born with no-parents when both biological-parents are spiritually-destroyed
It think it is This style of parenting that gravitates me more to the western style of relationship management
nicole !!! 🤩🤩🤩
Auntie ah. No one chose to be born. First 18 years of life are responsibility of parents.
Exactly why they have responsibility to nurture a functional/independent adult.
If they fail they should be responsible for the dysfunctional adult they cause.
Also it's 21 in spore. Murica is 18.
Isn't it common sense to respect and take care of your parents when you grow up and they are old,considering that they are the one who raised you.(albeit they raised and treated you properly)
super nice editing and production!
I love this host hHahhahaha damn funny but informative
Shoutout to everyone else who suffered through Adam Khoo camps, yea fuck that guy we don't need that toxicity in our lives.
this girl is wife material
Fantastic production, well done!
I really hate my sister
Lmfao. RUclips or the channel keep deleting my comment. I wish i have the gruntlet or deathnote. Fk ya all.
I want my kids to some day become independent and get their own life, but as long as they live under my roof they have to follow my rules. They can pack their bags and leave whenever they feel like.
I think filial is define or experience wrongly by the left nicole. Filial comes from within & honestly need to be taught. The rest is up to the child. I luv to take care of my parents. I wish I could do it forever. Unfortunately life hv a expiry date. Honestly, most people truly understand what their parents intent when they themselves become a parent. I am 48.
5:54 our uneducated kampong parents and grandparents has not much advices anyway!
I give up!
The background music is something that makes really hard time to understand what are you speaking, maybe is your accent and your voice tone! whats the purpose of music in background of a podcast?
Interesting. I enjoy watching videos about Asian cultures.
Filial piety should be something beautiful. Not otherwise.
Parents and children have to work hand in hand to achieve all the best things in life.
We, as children out here are working hard to be the best in everything.
Please show us some patience and understanding.
We can only make it, only through our parents' genuine support.
OMG Nicole you're god's gift to mankind especially to us singaporeans. Love the way you think and stay awesome
4:30 Confucianism is outdated lol
HATE HATE HATE LOVE
this giving money back to parents is not an asian thing! it's a singapore and probably msia thing, go to other countries like china and there's no such thing
Really? Our fore parent so money minded? Really omg.
Got leh. U nv see the "woke" videos of prc young parents denouncing FP?
Please tell me please! 阿亮!!!
👍👍👍
You need to educate yourself! Stop being ignorant!
Off topic but: is Nicole single? She seems like an attractive, fun and smart girl to date hahaha 😜
No parents are toxic.
Stop spreading hate.
You're saying cause you don't any kind of abusive parents, your mindset is not the same as everyone
You sure??? Go to the Philippines mate a lot of gossip bs you will get especially if your a foreigner
you're toxic
You need to educate yourself ! Stop being ignorant!