It''s funny because nowadays you can't even get Valve's attention by screaming. Not even modders who were supposed to be working directly with valve can get a single word back on what they're doing to help them get their games back up like they said they would after taking the links down.
God help F2Ps. You can't even call for a medic, let alone a bug fix. Valve wants that game to die so bad that they've ironically boosted the resilliance of the entire playerbase by tenfold. TF2 is running purely on the most spiteful of veteran players and the most stubborn of newbies. The immune system of the TF2 community is so filled with poison and long-developed poison resistances that it would force any other FPS playerbase into instant cardiac arrest if they were to be exposed to a single drop of its blood.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I'd like to imagine a valve employee going "oh no, we've created a monster we must destroy them" followed by the death scream of the scientists from half life 1.
....It sounds like I missed the boat on TF2 and I shouldn't even bother then, jesus. It sounds like that thing where you go play a fighting game and the only people online are the people who basically live there 24/7, except somehow worse?@@conspiracypanda1200
As a programmer it blows my mind that an RCE would be deprioritized under any circumstances. Because outside of games, RCEs are actually considered to be... just... a doomsday scenario. Like, "stop everything and fix this now."
Yeah, I work as a network tech and I have a little contact with some CSOC people. When the log4j vulnerability was discovered, people's hair was basically set on fire.
That's a good point. It makes me recall that it's gotten to that point because a lot of Stuff Happened as a result of taking it less seriously prior to that. I can only imagine it's not that way for games because of a comparative lack of attention by either attackers, researchers, or both. Well, we know how that's gone before in other, previously-ignored subsets of the software industry.
@@disk3001 It basically means that people can run whatever code on your computer that they want, including stealing your private information, sending out spam emails or bricking your computer. Pretty much the worst exploit that can exist in software until someone invents a virus that turns your hard drive into an IED.
QA/QC are the most thankless jobs in the industry and I don't think enough people realize how many bugs they encounter that have already been found and reported only to be marked WNF because of exactly what Woolie's talking about here. Sure, the testers mess up sometimes but it pales in comparison to how many issues are marked under low priority and hand-waved because they won't fail compliance or submission.
Yup. If there's no threat they'll lose money for the issue, they won't pay money to fix it. There's a reason why "risk analysis" is a career in the corporate world.
It's always interesting hearing new ways bosses find to say “don't do your job the way you're supposed to, only work if it'll avoid the worst case scenario.” That's the sentiment that always precedes a fucking DISASTER.
@@IndoorSitup Basicly during development of Sonic Heroes : Sonic Team was getting way to many bug reports involving game optimization, overall controls, level design, ect. But got so overwhelemed they put out a notice officially saying "All future bug reports are to be restricted to Blockers. Do not file anything that does not directly involve game completion." Heck theirs an old Game Grump episode that talks about it during their lets play.
20:35 gotta love when Woolie talks about his experiences in the trenches, the way he lights up when Pat asks him if things happened with him is just perfect X3
I've been in situations where someone in QA literally fixed an old ignored bug and the devs refused to merge it even though it passed all the CI tests. Tensions can quickly run high when people are territorial.
the newest FNAF game has proabably been my favorite when it comes to buggy games. you have game breaking bugs that someone in QA would've found in less than a minute into testing like freddy being able to open every single door or the simple action of entering freddy while jumping unloads the entire map (the later has been used as a speedrunning strat). and then you have bugs that were clearly left in out of spite like collecting the robot head at the go kart track again re-enables save points after 6AM.
This is why in MMO's there can be major class bugs for years but the instant someone finds an issue with a class a higher up plays it's fixed immediately. Most of the higher ups at arenanet played warrior so you bet your ass any warrior exclusive issue got patched within a few days. Same thing with blizzard and horde since no one in blizz hq has played alliance in a decade.
ive legit seen people complain that the guy who found the RCE for dark souls servers "ruined" dark souls cus "me cant play game!!!" and "well he invented it, its his fault not bamcos".... i can only imagine thats how bamco felt when an RCE was discovered and they tried ignoring it.... yes, there was an RCE prior to this one, there were multiple ways of doing RCE within dark souls that bamco refused to fix until the stream snipe.
The layers of disconnect causing bugs to not get forwarded reminds me of the Ungarmax bug in FF14. The bug where an overpowered move that was supposed to only be usable when in a 4 man dungeon with 3 AI companions could be used ANYWHERE, AT ANY TIME, INFINITELY. The bug got reported, of course, but either nobody in the English side of the company forwarded it or the dev team just thought "the gaijins must by lying" so it went unfixed for a year. And then it blew up, and was getting used in the UCoB world first race. Suddenly the bug got fixed in a weekend and EVERYBODY who used it, INCLUDING THE GUY WHO FOUND IT, got permabanned.
Joins a TF 2 Server pl_upward , guy who's been on steam for 16 years and not once vac banned is using aimbot with party, ghost and many other effects shooting out of him. Admits he's been doing this for years. Says a lot about valve. Bet the guys still running around without a chain.
I'm reminded of a few famous bug examples I've heard over the years of talking to many QA folk. TF2 is, or was, the same game that will stop running entirely if you delete a random PNG of a coconut from the game files. A lot of the developers don't even know why this is and can't figure out how this breaks the game. If this has changed in the past year I'm unaware TF2 also has soooo many bugs related to something as simple as changing texture quality that can completely change how weapons behave either gimping yourself or giving yourself an unfair advantage. A lot of weapons had or have stat boosts/special mechanics listed on their weapons that just DO NOT work at all and have been in that state for months or even years, others have completely hidden stats you would not know of unless you look into the game files. It's possible in at least one map to still be able to get into the enemy spawn. Oh and dear god the bot problem. Deus Ex Human Revolution had so many bugs that were caught in QA that were dismissed because of the "It's Fine" attitude Examples such as, the player gaining EXP and Kill flags from NPCs killing eachother meaning you'd get credited for kills in any situation in which somebody died which would also invalidate a no-kill run. A ton of CTD bugs which would tank some of the most important moments of the game including a possible save corruption that would occur on that infamous bridge towards the end of the game. "Dildo duty" in which late in development a ton of resources were supposedly funneled to removing every single Dildo prop placed in the game, this was just done by making QA scrape the entire game to find them all, there were still a few in the game at release that was patched out with the directors cut. I can't even begin to discuss the bugs that have been in Dark Souls over the years, it was possible in Dark Souls 2 for awhile to dig a certain weapon out of the game files using cheat engine and if you hit somebody with this it would trigger Fromsofts anti-cheat and boot them from the game, not to mention how easy it was to create items that existed specifically for this purpose. In SOOOO many of these stories when QA would bring up the issue to a developer they would get either shouted down or passive aggressively dismissed and would often later get called in by their superior and chewed out.
The PNG of the coconut thing actually isn't true. The coconut PNG file is just an unused particle effect related to an unused soldier taunt, and deleting it doesn't effect the game at all. As I understand it there are, however, other assets that are seemingly unimportant but the game won't boot without them, one of these being the 2fort cow.
14:50 Has there ever been a case where customers’ games go catastrophic with old save data after it’s been patched and the new QA is like “Why didn’t anyone test it with previous versions?!” “YOU said to always clear your kit out!”
Man QA sounds like hell. If I got told to fuck off after trying to bring something important to the higher up's attention that would be the moment I stopped giving a fuck about said project.
Unless it's square, then the fixes take years anyway. Nier Automata took 4 years to fix its pc release, FF7R will probably stay in its current state until Part 2 is out.
Once again, Preacher Woolie speaks the truth of God: "All hard word brings a good game release, but mere talk leads only to buggy speedruns." - Proverbs 14:23 "For no word from QA will ever fail." - Luke 1:37 "Anyone who does not provide for their players, and especially for their own game, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - Timothy 5:8 "The Lord God took the people and put them in the Garden of QA to work it and take care of it." - Genesis 2:15 "Slumber and a folding of the hands to rest, and bugs will remain in the final product; Poor sales will come upon you like an armed man." - Proverbs 6:10
Bullying and public humiliation gets results. It sucks that this is our reality, but sometimes bursting bubbles and bruising egos are the only resort when being civil fails.
Its stories like these rhat remind me that most games have never had an office job before. Like... this is no shock to ANYONE that has worked in a building with departments, each lead by a different team lead, approval processes, workflows, division of responsibilities, etc.
Coming back to this after Kotor 2's switch port found to have a game breaking bug that's user path that's probably would be an A or an S class if it were in the early game /opening section but since it's so deep in that all the reviewers on metacritic didn't mention it.
Hearing that the developers specifically wanted to avoid memeable bugs in Anthem makes sense considering both Mass Effect Andromeda and Marvel Infinite were basically killed by memes.
it's not so much about "defeating" them. it's minimizing how annoying 12 year olds are going to be saying the same things over and over for 2 weeks until they start saying a new thing over and over. fads aren't new, and they aren't going away, but we sure as heck don't have to just sit there and take it. apathy is death.
@@charleswisconsin9196 No one ever said anything about apathy, the whole crux here is making fun of the mentality of "doing the bare minimum to avoid getting made fun of" instead of avoiding that by just making a decent game, and by not doing that they just got made fun of even harder
I got to have a minor experience with this, in that I got to test a guild system in it's first beta implementation for a MMORPG. I figured I'd test something simple and go to the guild bank, deposit a copper while it was empty, then withdraw that copper (or more than that copper) and see if I could continue to overdraw and dupe it. Unfortunately, in the time it took me to deposit the coin, and withdraw it, one of the leads also deposited a shitload of gold into the bank and didn't tell anyone, and the tool-tip for withdrawal covered the account balance - so I didn't catch it and am like "Uhh, did I find a way to dupe shit?" So half the CSR floor comes over and watches me replicate it. Then I felt like a dumbass when they move my mouse and I see a bank with like max gold in it.
As a software dev, I totally get that frustration with qa sometimes, under deadline pressure it's just way too stressful. Everytime I get to that point I just do the proverbial "go home" (get up and walk around a bit, get a coffee etc) because it's not fair for anyone involved. But so many times shit is broken, I can fix it, but resource allocation says no, you wont fix this thing the client will 100% find, we're starting 3 new projects right now, all of which wont get enough attention within these deadlines and the cycle repeats.
I feel like the warframe reference here is a good example of where the game would have been better off if the devs just left the "bug" alone. Before the movement rework warframe has a more skill based movement and made finding secret areas in the map much more interesting and fun. Like for real, you could make an entire game like Mirror's Edge, but flashier solely based on the vanilla movement system.
Has anyone noticed the RUclips link to this video is messed up? If you click from a link, it starts at a random time between 7:00 and 9:00, it's not doing that on other clips on the channel?
Q&A answering to marketing is hilarious. It seems the response to "Then why are you talking to me?" would be "Because bugs impact the marketability of the product, which directly effect the company's profits."
That example woolie gave of someone killing a boss in under 30 seconds causing the game to crash should still get fixed in my opinion, because as a developer you can't possibly foresee every single method players will find to move through the game quickly. Some day a speedrunner might find a way to beat that boss in under 30 seconds without using debug commands, and then that bug will become a problem.
Disown or banish the one that tells us where bad things are about to happen?? Ever seen "Encanto"? Yeah We don't talk about Bruno No one wants a Sharingan or Byakkugan? Or Haki?? Sounds like a good idea to shoot the messenger. The best relation you have with the bearer of bad news is to tell them when you want the bad news or if it is an emergency and urgent
God this shit is so infuriating. Profit above all, actual game quality be damned, just keep fucking off and releasing shit until a saturation point is reached and sales start dropping. I'm so fuckin fed up with greed above all, with the lack of self respect or integrity coming from 99% of AAA gaming.
The number 1 loudest bug that has never been fixed has sadly been Super Smash Bros online. Online just SUCKS, it has latency issues, framedrops, and is impossible to play competitive due to how precise control must be. Mario Kart and Monster Hunter work fine, while Smash players have begged for years for online to be fixed.
We don't know many details, but from the little information we know it seems like Matt asked Woolie to stop being friends with Pat or they wouldn't be friends anymore. No clue what's going on with Liam but since he did guest on Woolie's Nier Automata LP it can be inferred that they were still friends for some time after Liam left SBFP. Most importantly, these people are all human beings with complex emotions and reasoning that we aren't privy to and we are not owed any additional information about what happened.
7:46 Lol, Pat's fraud tactic of trying to sound more connected than he actually is. "I don't remember who it was but I spoke to someone who was in QA..." Nah, it was just a public quote that Pat tried to make exclusive.
Yes. It's him trying to make himself sound more connected and there is no possibility at all it could be both that he actually knows someone personally that was there AND a public quote. Especially when he lives in an area that has a rich presence in both game dev and QA and already has/had some publicly known friends/former friends of himself that used to be in QA.
@@Dedlok Lol you're buying into his fake persona. Pat's been like this since 2bfp started. Back to the days when he was just coming from being a grocery store worker with no connections, he always talked like this. He's admitted it before too, "never stop talking and lie". He's a perfect example of 'fake it till you make it.'
@@Ultimaniacx4 perhaps, but do you have any evidence for your claim in this specific instance? or is it just, he has done thing so that means he must always be doing thing?
@juter4397 And yet that's exactly the excuse people use to excuse anything he does. Running his mouth off then being proven wrong? Hurr Durr must be Crazy Talk! It's dissapointing how many people excuse his phoniness as him "playing a character."
All I can imagine is Woolie in a QA Office spouting off a compliance rule with its exact number like he's reciting a bible verse.
That's an amazing visual
Aaaamen-eru
Woolz 4:15: thou shall not ship this game if you ignore me
AND ON THE THIRD DAY-AH. YOUR LORD REGGIE DOUTH SAY, THIS GAME BETTER NOT CRASH THE SYSTEM-MA
Like the Ferengi rules of Acquisition.
I love Woolie's QA stories. They always basically end with "I told you so."
every office job story from someone who wasn't a manager in a nutshell.
@@LieseFury every QA story, game development or not, ends like this.
I miss Woolie's Bible stories tho
@@Xx_BruhDog_xX
Gun To Your Head *GO DOWN!*
*WOOLIE VS GOD GO UP!*
Bc executives and managers can never be wrong, right guys?
"Why would anyone crack the game? That's Illegal!"
top 10 Real capcom employee quotes (REAL) (You won't believe number 4!)
It''s funny because nowadays you can't even get Valve's attention by screaming. Not even modders who were supposed to be working directly with valve can get a single word back on what they're doing to help them get their games back up like they said they would after taking the links down.
Yeah, the plauge of bots in recent years especially, has made playing outside of certain communities nearly impossible.
God help F2Ps. You can't even call for a medic, let alone a bug fix. Valve wants that game to die so bad that they've ironically boosted the resilliance of the entire playerbase by tenfold. TF2 is running purely on the most spiteful of veteran players and the most stubborn of newbies. The immune system of the TF2 community is so filled with poison and long-developed poison resistances that it would force any other FPS playerbase into instant cardiac arrest if they were to be exposed to a single drop of its blood.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I'd like to imagine a valve employee going "oh no, we've created a monster we must destroy them" followed by the death scream of the scientists from half life 1.
....It sounds like I missed the boat on TF2 and I shouldn't even bother then, jesus. It sounds like that thing where you go play a fighting game and the only people online are the people who basically live there 24/7, except somehow worse?@@conspiracypanda1200
Pat demonstrates why Paige keeps him around at 7:53.
Strong man
Woolie taking the moment to compliment him about it was kind of wholesome ngl
@@carvotheboss And Pat turns it around to dunk on Paige. Perfect dynamic.
I honestly expected the old comment veteran "The Pickles" to show up and make this comment.
Good stuff, though.
@@bahskintimulholde6191 The old guard isn't getting any younger, hahahaha
As a programmer it blows my mind that an RCE would be deprioritized under any circumstances. Because outside of games, RCEs are actually considered to be... just... a doomsday scenario. Like, "stop everything and fix this now."
Yeah, I work as a network tech and I have a little contact with some CSOC people. When the log4j vulnerability was discovered, people's hair was basically set on fire.
What is RCE?
@@disk3001 Remote code execution.
That's a good point. It makes me recall that it's gotten to that point because a lot of Stuff Happened as a result of taking it less seriously prior to that. I can only imagine it's not that way for games because of a comparative lack of attention by either attackers, researchers, or both. Well, we know how that's gone before in other, previously-ignored subsets of the software industry.
@@disk3001 It basically means that people can run whatever code on your computer that they want, including stealing your private information, sending out spam emails or bricking your computer. Pretty much the worst exploit that can exist in software until someone invents a virus that turns your hard drive into an IED.
As Woolie once said in a podcast about JOJO and gun. "Large crowd of angry people solves everything."
/Looks at the current stay of the world/ I'm not so sure Woolie was right...
Fairly certain he was being sarcastic as that phrase really just represents either a rise or a ruin
@@manticorephoenix The ruin of the rise and the rise of the ruin
@@aliciafraser1835
No he was, the thing was the anger wasn't there or focused properly. Which is the problem. Not enough true revolutions.
QA/QC are the most thankless jobs in the industry and I don't think enough people realize how many bugs they encounter that have already been found and reported only to be marked WNF because of exactly what Woolie's talking about here. Sure, the testers mess up sometimes but it pales in comparison to how many issues are marked under low priority and hand-waved because they won't fail compliance or submission.
The only way to get a company in any industry to act in the interest of the consumer is to demonstrate a threat to their profit margins.
Yup. If there's no threat they'll lose money for the issue, they won't pay money to fix it. There's a reason why "risk analysis" is a career in the corporate world.
Then a speedrunner comes, beats the boss in 20 seconds and everyone makes fun of the game
Maaaan Woolie, you had a front row seat to fucked up ego and humbling. I'm jealous. XD Corporate deserves EVERYTHING that happens to them.
Theres nothing I love more than hearing Woolie talk about QA.
"Not me though, i was damn good at My job" has the same energy of "i played football in collage, could have gone pro if i didnt join the navy"
“I'm not one of those Bytown pansies. I could break the CEO in two with my bare hands! DON'T FUCK WITH THIS QA TESTER!”
I don’t know if Woolie was sincere or sarcastic with his response
Reminds me of Sonic Heroes QA : Do not report any bugs unless it blocks primary game progression.
u wot?
It's always interesting hearing new ways bosses find to say “don't do your job the way you're supposed to, only work if it'll avoid the worst case scenario.”
That's the sentiment that always precedes a fucking DISASTER.
@@IndoorSitup Basicly during development of Sonic Heroes : Sonic Team was getting way to many bug reports involving game optimization, overall controls, level design, ect. But got so overwhelemed they put out a notice officially saying "All future bug reports are to be restricted to Blockers. Do not file anything that does not directly involve game completion." Heck theirs an old Game Grump episode that talks about it during their lets play.
Woolie actually addressed this directly before. Most likely, this is actually a normal stage in QA, not the whole process.
So if QA told the players instead of the devs, they'd actually be able to get their jobs done? That's some life hack.
Public pressure is the greatest force in the universe. Never underestimate the power of a lot of people yelling about something.
They live in Canada they're fully aware of the of the freedom convoy truckers I bet one of them has someone involved already.
20:35
gotta love when Woolie talks about his experiences in the trenches, the way he lights up when Pat asks him if things happened with him is just perfect X3
I've been in situations where someone in QA literally fixed an old ignored bug and the devs refused to merge it even though it passed all the CI tests. Tensions can quickly run high when people are territorial.
the newest FNAF game has proabably been my favorite when it comes to buggy games.
you have game breaking bugs that someone in QA would've found in less than a minute into testing like freddy being able to open every single door or the simple action of entering freddy while jumping unloads the entire map (the later has been used as a speedrunning strat).
and then you have bugs that were clearly left in out of spite like collecting the robot head at the go kart track again re-enables save points after 6AM.
This is why in MMO's there can be major class bugs for years but the instant someone finds an issue with a class a higher up plays it's fixed immediately. Most of the higher ups at arenanet played warrior so you bet your ass any warrior exclusive issue got patched within a few days. Same thing with blizzard and horde since no one in blizz hq has played alliance in a decade.
Cough cough DRK's Blood Weapon in FFXIV
It's a good time to be an FFXIV black mage, hohoho
ive legit seen people complain that the guy who found the RCE for dark souls servers "ruined" dark souls cus "me cant play game!!!" and "well he invented it, its his fault not bamcos".... i can only imagine thats how bamco felt when an RCE was discovered and they tried ignoring it.... yes, there was an RCE prior to this one, there were multiple ways of doing RCE within dark souls that bamco refused to fix until the stream snipe.
The layers of disconnect causing bugs to not get forwarded reminds me of the Ungarmax bug in FF14.
The bug where an overpowered move that was supposed to only be usable when in a 4 man dungeon with 3 AI companions could be used ANYWHERE, AT ANY TIME, INFINITELY.
The bug got reported, of course, but either nobody in the English side of the company forwarded it or the dev team just thought "the gaijins must by lying" so it went unfixed for a year. And then it blew up, and was getting used in the UCoB world first race. Suddenly the bug got fixed in a weekend and EVERYBODY who used it, INCLUDING THE GUY WHO FOUND IT, got permabanned.
God, I could listen to Woolie talk about QA and Compliance all day.
I laughed my ass off when woolie broke pyramid head in Silent hill 2.
Joins a TF 2 Server pl_upward , guy who's been on steam for 16 years and not once vac banned is using aimbot with party, ghost and many other effects shooting out of him. Admits he's been doing this for years. Says a lot about valve. Bet the guys still running around without a chain.
I'm reminded of a few famous bug examples I've heard over the years of talking to many QA folk.
TF2 is, or was, the same game that will stop running entirely if you delete a random PNG of a coconut from the game files.
A lot of the developers don't even know why this is and can't figure out how this breaks the game.
If this has changed in the past year I'm unaware
TF2 also has soooo many bugs related to something as simple as changing texture quality that can completely change how weapons behave either gimping yourself or giving yourself an unfair advantage.
A lot of weapons had or have stat boosts/special mechanics listed on their weapons that just DO NOT work at all and have been in that state for months or even years, others have completely hidden stats you would not know of unless you look into the game files.
It's possible in at least one map to still be able to get into the enemy spawn.
Oh and dear god the bot problem.
Deus Ex Human Revolution had so many bugs that were caught in QA that were dismissed because of the "It's Fine" attitude
Examples such as, the player gaining EXP and Kill flags from NPCs killing eachother meaning you'd get credited for kills in any situation in which somebody died which would also invalidate a no-kill run.
A ton of CTD bugs which would tank some of the most important moments of the game including a possible save corruption that would occur on that infamous bridge towards the end of the game.
"Dildo duty" in which late in development a ton of resources were supposedly funneled to removing every single Dildo prop placed in the game, this was just done by making QA scrape the entire game to find them all, there were still a few in the game at release that was patched out with the directors cut.
I can't even begin to discuss the bugs that have been in Dark Souls over the years, it was possible in Dark Souls 2 for awhile to dig a certain weapon out of the game files using cheat engine and if you hit somebody with this it would trigger Fromsofts anti-cheat and boot them from the game, not to mention how easy it was to create items that existed specifically for this purpose.
In SOOOO many of these stories when QA would bring up the issue to a developer they would get either shouted down or passive aggressively dismissed and would often later get called in by their superior and chewed out.
The PNG of the coconut thing actually isn't true. The coconut PNG file is just an unused particle effect related to an unused soldier taunt, and deleting it doesn't effect the game at all. As I understand it there are, however, other assets that are seemingly unimportant but the game won't boot without them, one of these being the 2fort cow.
Can we just appreciate the chad-ass moment Pat had at 8:03
12:53 This is about Soul Suspect, isn't it
14:50 Has there ever been a case where customers’ games go catastrophic with old save data after it’s been patched and the new QA is like “Why didn’t anyone test it with previous versions?!”
“YOU said to always clear your kit out!”
Not usually because if a patch doesn’t apply retroactively to all save data, that’s a bug itself.
The un-memeable game became a meme of resounding failure!
"We should point the finger at legal"
"I told you not to do all those bad things"
"Now now, pointing fingers won't solve anything"
Man QA sounds like hell. If I got told to fuck off after trying to bring something important to the higher up's attention that would be the moment I stopped giving a fuck about said project.
Unless it's square, then the fixes take years anyway. Nier Automata took 4 years to fix its pc release, FF7R will probably stay in its current state until Part 2 is out.
Once again, Preacher Woolie speaks the truth of God: "All hard word brings a good game release, but mere talk leads only to buggy speedruns." - Proverbs 14:23
"For no word from QA will ever fail." - Luke 1:37
"Anyone who does not provide for their players, and especially for their own game, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - Timothy 5:8
"The Lord God took the people and put them in the Garden of QA to work it and take care of it." - Genesis 2:15
"Slumber and a folding of the hands to rest, and bugs will remain in the final product; Poor sales will come upon you like an armed man." - Proverbs 6:10
Not always. WB ordering the Arkham Origins developers to not patch all the bugs and just focus on DLC convinced me to never buy a game at launch.
Dude these QA stories are beinging back memories
Bullying and public humiliation gets results. It sucks that this is our reality, but sometimes bursting bubbles and bruising egos are the only resort when being civil fails.
If the whistleblower was Cassandra, then it would have been really fitting.
this might be the best podcast video they've ever done, damn
Man you can still skip 50% of the duke’s archives, nobody’s patching that
14:00 Woolie's comment perfectly summed it up haha
Its stories like these rhat remind me that most games have never had an office job before. Like... this is no shock to ANYONE that has worked in a building with departments, each lead by a different team lead, approval processes, workflows, division of responsibilities, etc.
Coming back to this after Kotor 2's switch port found to have a game breaking bug that's user path that's probably would be an A or an S class if it were in the early game /opening section but since it's so deep in that all the reviewers on metacritic didn't mention it.
I just want to say, I love hearing stories from the QA trenches. It's always such a shitshow.
It's almost like a lot of modern game development is unsustainable.
Hearing that the developers specifically wanted to avoid memeable bugs in Anthem makes sense considering both Mass Effect Andromeda and Marvel Infinite were basically killed by memes.
"The un-memeable game" becomes a meme itself. It's cute that people think they can somehow defeat memes
“The DNA of the soul”
But seriously, if it was truly “unmemeable” it would be boring and forgotten
@@Abdega Sounds like Anthem alright
it's not so much about "defeating" them. it's minimizing how annoying 12 year olds are going to be saying the same things over and over for 2 weeks until they start saying a new thing over and over. fads aren't new, and they aren't going away, but we sure as heck don't have to just sit there and take it. apathy is death.
@@charleswisconsin9196 No one ever said anything about apathy, the whole crux here is making fun of the mentality of "doing the bare minimum to avoid getting made fun of" instead of avoiding that by just making a decent game, and by not doing that they just got made fun of even harder
the sneaky pickle open
Just hit me QA to angry devs what Internal Affairs is to Angry Cops on tv.
The loudest bug? A cricket?
No, a cicada.
QA sounds fun tbh
until...its not
I got to have a minor experience with this, in that I got to test a guild system in it's first beta implementation for a MMORPG.
I figured I'd test something simple and go to the guild bank, deposit a copper while it was empty, then withdraw that copper (or more than that copper) and see if I could continue to overdraw and dupe it.
Unfortunately, in the time it took me to deposit the coin, and withdraw it, one of the leads also deposited a shitload of gold into the bank and didn't tell anyone, and the tool-tip for withdrawal covered the account balance - so I didn't catch it and am like "Uhh, did I find a way to dupe shit?" So half the CSR floor comes over and watches me replicate it. Then I felt like a dumbass when they move my mouse and I see a bank with like max gold in it.
As a software dev, I totally get that frustration with qa sometimes, under deadline pressure it's just way too stressful. Everytime I get to that point I just do the proverbial "go home" (get up and walk around a bit, get a coffee etc) because it's not fair for anyone involved.
But so many times shit is broken, I can fix it, but resource allocation says no, you wont fix this thing the client will 100% find, we're starting 3 new projects right now, all of which wont get enough attention within these deadlines and the cycle repeats.
I feel like the warframe reference here is a good example of where the game would have been better off if the devs just left the "bug" alone. Before the movement rework warframe has a more skill based movement and made finding secret areas in the map much more interesting and fun. Like for real, you could make an entire game like Mirror's Edge, but flashier solely based on the vanilla movement system.
I love office politics! Makes for great videogames!
Oh boy Destiny bugs, how I don’t miss them.
12:58 "This unnamed person I'm describing". Matt?
Probably liam
Has anyone noticed the RUclips link to this video is messed up? If you click from a link, it starts at a random time between 7:00 and 9:00, it's not doing that on other clips on the channel?
there's bug and then there's deadly premonition 2
The source of a games success and failures. The fans
need that corporate lawyer link
Q&A answering to marketing is hilarious. It seems the response to "Then why are you talking to me?" would be "Because bugs impact the marketability of the product, which directly effect the company's profits."
so, why have I already seen this video months ago? deja vu? **watches video again** oh hey look, no zangief... thought I was a time-traveler for a sec
Oof
@GoodlyPenguin yeah, that was a braindead mean comment, gomen
That example woolie gave of someone killing a boss in under 30 seconds causing the game to crash should still get fixed in my opinion, because as a developer you can't possibly foresee every single method players will find to move through the game quickly. Some day a speedrunner might find a way to beat that boss in under 30 seconds without using debug commands, and then that bug will become a problem.
Disown or banish the one that tells us where bad things are about to happen??
Ever seen "Encanto"?
Yeah
We don't talk about Bruno
No one wants a Sharingan or Byakkugan? Or Haki??
Sounds like a good idea to shoot the messenger.
The best relation you have with the bearer of bad news is to tell them when you want the bad news or if it is an emergency and urgent
Man being in QA sounds like shit. Bust your ass off just for some exec to wave away your work.
I like these stories of QA trenches.
22:15 does anyone know who pat is talking about here?
God this shit is so infuriating. Profit above all, actual game quality be damned, just keep fucking off and releasing shit until a saturation point is reached and sales start dropping.
I'm so fuckin fed up with greed above all, with the lack of self respect or integrity coming from 99% of AAA gaming.
be the hero the world needs then.
12:30 was it Matt?
The number 1 loudest bug that has never been fixed has sadly been Super Smash Bros online. Online just SUCKS, it has latency issues, framedrops, and is impossible to play competitive due to how precise control must be. Mario Kart and Monster Hunter work fine, while Smash players have begged for years for online to be fixed.
Also, part of why online sucks is because the game does not use rollback net code (used by Mario Kart and Monster Hunter).
It's working as intended, too bad "as intended" is just bad.
mario kart does not work fine lmao
try hitting anyone with a green shell. it either hits them from 20 feet away or it passes right through them.
What's the tiktok Pat is talking about?
Does woolie have anything to do with matt anymore?
No
@@Nemesis_T-Type are they the super best friends before woolie V.S.?
We don't know many details, but from the little information we know it seems like Matt asked Woolie to stop being friends with Pat or they wouldn't be friends anymore. No clue what's going on with Liam but since he did guest on Woolie's Nier Automata LP it can be inferred that they were still friends for some time after Liam left SBFP.
Most importantly, these people are all human beings with complex emotions and reasoning that we aren't privy to and we are not owed any additional information about what happened.
@@JameboHayabusa Yes, SBFP was Matt, Pat, Woolie, and Liam.
Whose the TikTok lawyer Pat is referencing?
Woolie qa story make brain happy, click many likes
7:46 Lol, Pat's fraud tactic of trying to sound more connected than he actually is. "I don't remember who it was but I spoke to someone who was in QA..." Nah, it was just a public quote that Pat tried to make exclusive.
Yes. It's him trying to make himself sound more connected and there is no possibility at all it could be both that he actually knows someone personally that was there AND a public quote. Especially when he lives in an area that has a rich presence in both game dev and QA and already has/had some publicly known friends/former friends of himself that used to be in QA.
@@Dedlok Lol you're buying into his fake persona. Pat's been like this since 2bfp started. Back to the days when he was just coming from being a grocery store worker with no connections, he always talked like this. He's admitted it before too, "never stop talking and lie". He's a perfect example of 'fake it till you make it.'
@@Ultimaniacx4 perhaps, but do you have any evidence for your claim in this specific instance? or is it just, he has done thing so that means he must always be doing thing?
@@charleswisconsin9196 ...The fact that he said "oh it was Anthem" "it" being what he was actually thinking about...
@juter4397 And yet that's exactly the excuse people use to excuse anything he does. Running his mouth off then being proven wrong? Hurr Durr must be Crazy Talk! It's dissapointing how many people excuse his phoniness as him "playing a character."
HONK
how dare you.