Jeffrey! THANK YOU! I Love these buses for a very personal reason! 57 years ago, in the mid-60s, my uncles worked for my local bus company, BET owned South Wales Transport, they were a driver and conductor respectively. One day, when I was around 3 years old, they took me to see their garage and look at the red monsters lol. I stood in front of a Bridgemaster with Weymann bodywork: what you can't see in a photo about that bodywork, was the fact the top deck, leaned Outward, over the drivers cab! As a toddler, standing at that noble radiator and looking UP..!... it was like looking up at a cliff face! I've loved them ever since lol. Alas, the Bridgemaster's SWT owned, were passed onto sister company, Oxford Bus Services and Yorkshire. The salty sea air of Swansea, caused issues with the rear sections of steel body, and the hills could prove a struggle for the slightly underpowered engine, especially for a full bus! SWT kept a large fleet of AEC Regent Vs well into the 1970s and they were very successful...I caught them to school daily lol. Thanks you, for covering British buses...you must be unique, few Americans take the trouble! Thanks Jeffrey!
Hello! I'm so happy you like my videos!!! What a great story about the Bridgemaster - I did not know the top deck leaned forward over the cab! Must have been quite an impressive bus. Too bad it doesn't get much coverage, if any. Thank you so much for watching!!!
Ahh. East Kent Bus Company on holiday between Westgate-on-Sea and Margate with the Bridgemaster. The driver would let me move the lever to open the doors. And I remember the "Open Top" version that ran from Minnis Bay, Birchington to Pegwell Bay, Ramsgate where the Cross-Channel Hovercraft operated from. The East Kent "Open Top" was white painted with a glass panelled upper screen at the front. Such lovely childhood memories.
I'm nearly 70 and next to Beverley arch was an ice-cream shop, my father and yours truly used to marvel at skill of the bus drivers negotiating their approach whilst licking a vanilla cone. Aah memories! Excellent video. Regards from London
The photo of the front of the Eastern Coach Works at Lowestoft brought back happy memories. I was raised about 1 1/2 miles from ECW. The Bristol chassis vehicles would drive past us on the way to the works and newly completed buses would drive past, in the opposite direction, to their various owners around the UK. Our local bus services (around Lowestoft) were provided by Eastern Counties (customers of ECW) but the Lowestoft Corporation buses were not sourced from there. I have had many a ride on a Lodekka - they saw quite a lot of service on Route 3 (Lowestoft-Oulton Broad circular), even though there were no low bridges on that route! The ECW site is now an industrial park or some such.
Finally an AEC feature! I never would have dreamt an American would be educating me on a model from a a marque I have idolised for a very long time. I grew up catching underfloor and rear engined AEC buses with Australian bodywork. Some ex London AEC Merlins made their way to Australia and I have a very early memory of riding in one. Among the last AECs sold here in the late 70s was the 36 foot Swift rear engine model with the big 760 ci AEC engine and I heard these came from a cancelled order in Durban South Africa! 66 went to the sta fleet in Adelaide with ZF 2 speed transmissions and several went to various privately run bus companies in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. You may want to look into that model some day. At least one Bridgemaster made it's way down under.
I don't think that your comment about Jeffrey's prononciations really needs a mention. Alternatively his explanations of these bus types and their final demise was worth knowing.
For eight years of my secondary school, I occasionally used a London Transport RLH , route 336 Country area, Watford - Amersham. It had AEC chassis but provincial body with an awkward well down the starboard side and long 6 or 8 bench seats on the port side making entrance/exit difficult. Very different 'buses from the plethora of handsome RTs that were used for pretty much everything else. I think they were introduced 1956 to replace low bridge STLs.
I remember the Rotherham Bridgemasters and the Sheffield ones. The Sheffield ones had a rear entrance, and the Rotherham ones had a front entrance. They were very bouncy buses, and I was told that the suspension was an early form of the Hydrolastic suspension as fitted to Morris/Austin 1100, designed by Alex Isingonis. The Renowns, which Rotherham also bought, did not have this bounce.
Thanks. The Dennis Loline (2.24) - based on the Lodekka - were also in the diminishing market for front engined low height double deck buses outside of state control.
I can distinctly remember travelling on East Yorkshire Bridgemasters as a child. I always preferred them to the nausea inducing KHCT Atlanteans. They had an old school charm to them. It was nice to see some of the old girls again. Thank you for the memories.
Haha, no way, @8:15 is my photo, that's soo cool to see it being used :) but yeah it's a lovely bus to have restored in our area. I was quite vague with the description, but it was actually being used on a shuttle to a classic car show! Very fitting in think! Although on the subject of double deckers, perhaps you could do a video on all of the cities/towns in American with double deckers? I feel it would be quite interesting!
Hello! I'm glad you liked the video and that you are ok with my using your great photo! Lots to choose from, but I only try to pick the best ones!! I'll look into your suggestion - unfortunately, info on American double deckers, especially of the past are often spotty at best! Thanks for watching!
I remember riding to school on that very Leicester Bridgemaster bus in the early 60s (9:26). We even lived in Stoneygate on the route 29! I remember they seemed very modern and comfortable compared with the usual much older Leylands and Daimlers used by Leicester City Transport at the time, but I think they only had a couple of Bridgemasters. Never thought I'd see it again 60 years later!
Hello! I, too remember seeing a Lodekka in New York. I still have a memory of one in front of the Empire State Building around 1990 or so! Thanks for watching!
Excellent job again. I got a real kick out of this one. I've never driven a Bridgemaster, probably never even seen one. But I first drove buses for a little family-owned bus company in Buckinghamshire called Red Rover. It got bought out within 2 or 3 years of me working for them. So to see one of their buses was a real buzz, and to hear them mentioned by name was even buzzier! We didn;t have any Bridgemasters when I drove for them. But we did have one remaining AEC Renown - the bus that superceded it. IIRC it was DAU358C, and they kept it around for training. I got to drive it a couple of times in the late 80s/90s. IT was hard work to someone who'd been used to VRs, Olympians, and Nationals!
As a schoolkid in Sheffield in the 60's and having to take two buses to school and back again, I remember Sheffield Corporation Transport had a number of low bridge AECs with the open rear entry. Only once did I get on one of these buses to go home from school. They were constructed differently on the upper deck. Rather than having the usual centre aisle with a pair of double seats on either side, they had a dropped well that ran the entire length of the upper deck from the top of the stairs to the front of the bus, and each seat accommodated four passengers sat abreast which you stepped up into having to bow your head. This 'well' manifested itself as a lowered ceiling line running the length of the lower deck along the right hand side.
Yes I remember these buses in the 19 route. I think these were older than the Bridgemasters. Easily recognised by the front destination layout with the route number window to the side of the two destination numbers. The Bridgmaster had the route number window above the destination ones.
@@Kivetonandrew Back in the 60's schooling was very different to how it is now. Your secondary school was determined by how you did in the 11+ exam which you took towards the end of your primary education. I, for my sins and with more than a modicum of disbelief, actually passed the 11+ which resulted in me going to Myers Grove situated in the north of Sheffield, and I lived at Gleadless on the southern outskirts of the city. Hence two buses to school and two home again, changing in the city centre. The bus from town to school was the 88 Roscoe Bank, and nine times out of ten would be a Leyland. When it came to school turfing out time, extra buses would be laid on to cope with the large numbers of pupils needing transport home again. It was never a genteel queue that boarded the bus with a sense of civility, but more of a free for all with about six trying to get through the entrance at once. And it was on one of these occasions that one of the extra buses was a low bridge AEC. I always preferred the AECs to the Leylands, I liked the deep throaty roar they (mostly) made. So much so that I once came home and proudly declared I wanted to be a bus driver (hoping to drive AECs,) my mother went ape shit - telling me I wasn't wasting my education just to be a Bus Driver. On the route between my house and town (20/33) an abomination appeared from time to time - the Atlantean. Didn't like it. I much preferred the open rear entry bus myself. As for my intended career as a bus driver - I went in the RAF.
In the UK at the time there were 2 types of top deck layout; 'Highbridge' with seats for 2 either side of a central gangway and the 'Lowbridge' layout with a sunken offside gangway and rows of 4 abreast seating, and the lower deck having the standard central gangway. The 'Lowbridge' layout allowed the vehicle to be built to a lower overall height but wasm't popular due to it's lack of headroom and that the conductor had to reach across passengers on the top deck. The drop centre rear axle on the Bristol Lodekka allowed buses to be built to the 'Highbridge' layout but built to a similar height to 'Lowbridge' buses. Changing geography in areas where 'Lowbridge' buses were tradittionally used also contibuted to it's lack of sales; being introduced when bus use was declining and single deckers would suffice on certain routes and lso because many railways were closing and low bridges were removed allowing the roads to be used by standard height double deckers. Regards, Ian Simpson.
East Yorkshire Motor Services did have the biggest fleet of Bridgemasters at 50, however what is not widely remembered is that the first 4 from 1960 did not have the Beverley Bar profile - they did fit, but it was a bit too close for comfort so the remaining 46, split into 3 batches, had the angled upper deck windows.
Oh, that is interesting! I don't recall coming across that fact when I was doing research! Would have put that into the video if I had known! Thanks for watching!
BET bought Dennis Loline buses- which was a license built Lodekka. They were used by Aldershot & District and the Loline chassis was made in that company's backyard. BET also owned a TV station- Rediffusion was the first commercial TV station on air in the UK- as well as various bus stations!
Interesting that you should show a pic of Red Rover of Aylesbury Bridgemaster 6116BH. In 1962, Baxter’s Bus Service of Airdrie ordered two Bridgemasters, after purchasing similar 78BVD in 1961. Before these could be delivered, Baxter’s was taken over by Scottish Omnibuses of Edinburgh, part of the Scottish Bus Group. Baxter’s’ two Bridgemasters were intended to be 479/480DVA (a photo of 480DVA in Baxter livery prior to delivery features on the Park Royal Vehicles website). ACV Sales got to hear of these two undelivered vehicles and saw a “bit of an opportunity”. AEC had got to hear of the difficulties two Scottish Bus Group fleets (Western SMT and Central SMT) were having with their Albion Lowlanders and saw an opportunity to place AEC double-deckers into SBG fleets. What AEC did was to try to place these two Bridgemasters elsewhere and replace them with the new “Renown” model (the Bridgemaster’s separate-chassis replacement). They managed to divert one, 479DVA, to Red Rover as 6116BH, but the other one had no takers, so became Scottish Omnibuses BB962 (9962SF). The Renown appeared with Scottish Omnibuses in December 1962 as BB963 (9963SF), unfortunately the only Renown to enter SBG service.
@@robertp.wainman4094 Glad you brought that up. Were those transmissions some sort of semi automatic? I remember reading that many of those were repowered with CUMMINS engines and ALLISON fully automatic transmissions. Much more power and easier to drive.
Another great video Jeffrey. On the lowbridge British bus front, you should take a look at the model that predominated in our part of north Derbyshire (UK) - the Leyland, or Albion in Scotand, Lowlander. It succeeded about as well as the Bridgemaster, but was well represented in our local BET group operator, East Midland Motor Services.
@@JeffreyOrnstein Thank you Jeffery. It's always good of you to reply. We really do enjoy your videos. Yes, the Lowlander was, he tells me, my husband's favourite bus 'of all time' - particulary East Midlands' D166 . . . I really had no idea what an idiot he was when I married him!
Great video Jeffrey, I vaguely recall the Sheffield one in service but I cannot recall riding on it. I have seen an East Yorkshire example in preservation, it is a beautiful thing.
I drove the AEC Renown. Ugh! heavy noisy and hot. Although the AEC engine was very powerful. I passed my bus test on a Bristol Lowdecker. Slow, cool, and very nice to drive. A driver name of Tal Jenkins (Tony Jenkins). On his retirement from Cwmbran National Welsh/Stage Coach. Bought an AEC Renown and restored it. Sadly Tal passed away a few years ago, but the bus is still going. Thanks.
Great video, Gotta give them credit, they ere trying to fill the niche of bridge busses, did not know the British government had a lock on bus sales, lots of information, the busses looked good restored
You should do the Gillig Low Floor, it is from a newer time period and not very remarkable but its pure prevalence makes it deserving of a video. Its very popular in the US, especially with smaller towns because of the lack of a 60 ft modal and it being generally simpler than NFI.
Hello! I will look into the Gillig Low Floor. If there's something really interesting about it, maybe I'll do a future video on it. Thanks for watching!
Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield, but when the Bristol Lodekka LD6B lowhight double deck bus were developed only for the Tilling Group in state owned while the B.E.T. Group weren't allowed to have them. Dennis Brothers Ltd of Gilford had produced their very own version of the Lodekka under licence & known as the Dennis Loline. The Dennis Loline version was based on the Bristol Lodekka type but using Dennis front & rear axles, a Gardner 6LW 8.4 litre 6-cylinder diesel engine & a Dennis 5-speed constant mesh overdrive gearbox & a single plate friction clutch, also it also had an optional larger Gardner 6LX diesel engine fitted, but they also fitted with a Leyland 0.600 9.8. diesel engine plus an optional 4-speed semi-automatic gearbox with fluid flywheel & this were available on the open market for bus operators such as North Western, Walsall Corporation, Reading Corporation, Aldershot & District, Middlesbrough Corporation, Halifax Corporation & also the very unique ultra-lowhight version as a commercial motor show exhibit was Barton. But it ware based on a Bristol Lodekka version via you should do an insight on the Gilford Lodekka what's really the Dennis Loline built under licence from Bristol. Thank you for your co-operation on this very strange Bristol Lodekka & Dennis loline lowhight double deck bus subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield.
I remember the Bridgemasters in Sheffield. Fleet numbers 519 to 525. All were rear loaders apart from 525. Strangely I rode all these buses, 525 being my favourite, on an urban route with no overbridges! No 525 is still around in Sheffield livery. Its had several owners recently but a look on the DVLA shows it as being taxed. Nice to know its about somewhere.
The Dennis Brothers of Guildford, who were famous for Fire Engines, but also build Dustcarts, and now busses, were building a licence built copy of the Bristol Lodecca, called the Dennis Loline. Before these were designed, you would order your bus as Normal, or Low Bridge layout. The upper deck of the Low Bridge bus, would have a sunken gangway along the length of the bus, on the driver's side, from the stairs at the back of the bus, to the front seats. The seats along the top deck of the bus, were all a bench of four seats, so if you are sitting next to the window, three passengers would have to get out of their seats, to let you get off the bus. This was the reason why placing the drive shaft along towards the side of the bus, instead of along the centre line, wwas a preferred option for the bus companies.
Nice littel video. There aren't many books on the Bridgemaster, despite it being a well known AEC type. Believe there were 180 built with varyng body styles. Integral body gave way to the Renown with chassis and then the Regent V, all looked very similar. Believe too, there is a difference between a 'low-height' and 'low-bridge' bus, the same as knowing the difference between a forward entrance or front entrance.
In operators' jargon, a 'low-bridge' body has the dropped-gangway, four-a-side layout on the upper deck. The Lodekka was a 'low-height' body, with the normal centre-gangway layout.
Is this you again? Fantastic! The buses I took as a child (in Liverpool) were green, hop on hop off at the back, supplied by Liverpool Transport. I'm fascinated by your interest in Brit buses. Thank you.
I am not sure if the ACV Crossley was a Crossley product I could be wrong but the chassis and body builders at the motor show were limited to one product each so the badge engineering gave an extra display space
The first four Bridgemasters had an aluminium structure and were built at Crossley Motors, (although the Belfast bus was finished by local coachbuilders Harkness) all but the Birmingham example carried AEC badges, and all but the Birmingham and Walsall buses had AV590 engines, Park Royal Vehicles' manager had come from Eastern Coach Works and preferred Aluminum structures so BET pressuring the reversion to steel was resented and the revised version was devoid of style. ACV sales provided more Demonstrator Bridgemaster buses than the Routemaster, Regent mk V and Renown put together.
The really damning feature of the Bridgemaster was the integral construction. Apart from London, nobody at that period was interested in a vehicle which did not allow the operator to specify their own body manufacturer. This was particularly the case when there was still a substantial number of coachbuilders to choose from, and municipal operators particularly often had a favoured (often local) supplier prepared to customise bodies to suit their particular requirements. There had been several previous attempts to sell integral vehicles by Beadle, Sentinel, Leyland (with the Olympic) and others, all ending in tears. London had some integral AEC trolleybuses prewar, but even the Routemaster found only a single customer outside London in the shape of Northern General.
I never went on an East Yorkshire one but always liked the look of them. I imagine they were rather cramped when full. Another well researched great video
They were great buses, I regularly caught them to go to school from Swansea to Port Talbot for over a year, they could go like the clappers on the jersey marine dual carriageway , I swear we went over the bridge at the oil works around 60MPH , they belted along that stretch from Baglan to Swansea docks. Probably this ,the Regent V and the Renown are my favorite buses of all time.
Of all the vehicles to pick for a thumbnail you pick an AEC Bridgemaster from Premier motors of Stainforth, South Yorkshire who were based just a few mile from where I grew up. Travelled on that numerous times as a lad but never understood what prompted its purchase as Premier never ran any routes with low bridges so the decision must have been based on price. Premier later got absorbed into the passenger transport executive that was formed in the late 70s.
It's interesting since at the time across the channel the state-owned Régie Renault not only sold buses to private operators, but their core business was selling cars to private individuals.
The Lodekka was a specialist low frame bus with a captive market with the BET group, rather like the AEC Routemaster with London Transport. The Bridgemaster was an integral chassis-less bus like the RM, but made for the open market. London RTs were AEC Regent IIIs everywhere else. The Regent V was a conventional chassis bus which drew from AEC experience with RT, RM and Bridgemaster. The open market values low price.
Hello! Ok, I know I may have missed a few pics here and there (hard to get all of them in) - but I did mention Western Welsh, at least. Thanks for watching!
I remember Ribble Motor Services, one of the largest independent bus operators outside ofLondon and part of the BET group, used to have high bridge and low bridge versions of the Atlantean. Inside of the upper saloon above the front windows, it would say 13' 6" on the low bridge and 14' 6" on the high bridge. Not sure if this was to reassure the front seat upper saloon passengers though! I think they had some high and low bridge Leyland Titans before the Atlanteans as well.
I can't believe the BET Group couldn't see the benefit of aluminium over steel. A lighter weight and resistance to rust were a good advance over an all-steel body, especially considering how much salt we put on our roads in winter time.
It was all about reducing first cost, BET bulk bought and pooled orders from subsidiary companies to get large tenders in order to negotiate bulk discounts. The insistence on steel frames was linked to writing down the value of the bus over 12 years, it was felt that with two heavy overhauls that was more cost-effective than a more costly aluminum frame.
I'm torn between being fascinated by the sheer innovation and near cottage-industry production of British buses and thinking they would've been better off with a single standardized one-size-fits-all design and putting all that engineering effort elsewhere.
Standardization vs. non-standardization is a good question. One thing is not in doubt - the huge variety of British buses at the time. So many body builders....contrast that to US practice of standardization. All we had in the 60s and 70s was the GM and Flxible New Look bus! Thanks for watching!
Birmingham City Transport operated 3 AEC Bridgemaster Buses over the years all operating from Tile Cross Garage on the number 14 bus route and some times on the 28 and 23 bus routes, the first one on loan was was a demonstrator reg number 159 JHX and was painted Blue and Cream nothing like BCT but cream roof to upper deck window base, mid section Blue, then lower deck window area cream and then from below the blower deck windows to the bottom skirt in Blue, , this was returned when nthe BCT purchased a rear entrance AEC Bridgemaster fleet number 3228 reg number 9 JML this operated for years for BCT again on the route 14, 23 and 28 out of Tile Cross Garage and apparently it was prone to breaking down a lot. For short while operating next to 3228 BCT trialed a front entrance version of the Bridgemaster reg number 2311 MK but got rid of it biut 3228 souldierd on for yeas plodding along on the number 14 route and was scrapped just before BCT was absorbed into the West Midlands PTE arround 1968/69, when the BCT Mechanics thought they had got rid of this AEC Bridgemaster to their horror they found that they had acrued the AEC Bridgemaster Buses of Walsall Corporation when it was along with Birmingham City Transport. Walsall Corporation, Wolverhampton Corportion and West Bromwich Corporation Buses were absorbed into the new WMPTE. it did not take long for the WMPTE to rid its self of Walsalll's Bridgemasters
Hello! Thanks for all that information on the Bridgemasters at BCT! Birmingham had a really interesting bus system and some unique buses...could be a good subject for a future video. Thanks for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Hi Jeffry, Yes it would be a good vidio as the Birmingham Standard Bus evolved over years and was rock so;ld in desighn with many of it's design evolving into the MCW orion, MCW built all of Birmingham's sandard rear entrance bus bodies and it was a synominus as the London RT & RM, Midland Red D9 and Bristol Lodecker and was that strong and sturdy that when the WMPTE was formed in 1971 it carried on for years with examples moving to run in Wolverhampton and Walsall replacing their aged bus fleet until I believe the late 1970's with the last desighn seeing service along side irmingham's Trams, Trolley buses and the modern day Fleetline. What as a Brummie was tht when comming off our Holidays it was all ways a welcome site seeing a Birmingham City Transport Bus at the City boundary welcomming you home.
It’s quite striking that the Bridgemaster specification page tells you the bus’s width and length but doesn’t mention the key feature, its height? How not to sell your product on its strengths!
Very interesting and enjoyable video, never knew about the political complications involved. Regardless of the tapered upper deck side windows, East Yorkshire bus drivers deserved a bonus for taking these vehicles through the Beverly Bar. They really needed a guided busway to safely negotiate this obstacle. Hopefully neither buses or brickwork were damaged. incidentally, does anyone know how much lower was a Bridgemaster than a regular double decker? Or indeed the Bristol Lodekka?
Thanks - the Bridgemaster was always so ugly for some reason. A note of pedantry....the term 'Lowbridge' bus usually referred to an earlier design of bus for low bridges, where the upper floor gangway was on the right hand side (rather than central) and sunken, and the seats were in rows of 4. This allowed overall height to be lower, but as can be imagined, was extremely awkward in use. Then Bristol designed the Lodekka, which had a lower height chassis, enabling a bus with a conventional central-gangway design to be of low height. And as you say, AEC designed the Bridgemaster for firms who couldn't buy the Bristol - the Dennis Loline was also an alternative, which was a licenced version of the Lodekka. I guess that strictly, the Lodekka, Loline and Bridgemaster should be described as 'Low height' buses rather than 'Lowbridge', not that it really matters at this distance!!
Exactly so, Huddersfield in the 1950s had Daimler low bridge buses of this layout, they were the only ones suitable for the Holme valley road which passed through Lockwood Railway viaduct. Eventually the road surface was loweres a couple of feet to give clearance for standard buses and artic trucks.
In Manchester UK they are on some routs using double decker electric Buses the motor is on the back and they are much nicer to ride on and much more quitter.
@@JeffreyOrnstein Very smooth just a very low noise from the electric motor no throbbing of a diesel engine it has GPS and down stairs there is a small TV screen giving the route and announcing the next stop on the EV bus I can remember in the 1960's riding on a new double decker bus with the engine on the back and sitting on the back seat in the summer the heat from the engine was not nice I was sweating a lot.
Its a shame AEC never developed a Rearmaster (like the one off FRM but with a chassis. However the Leyland takeover killed that off, and they refused to produce the FRM in quantity offering the AV691 engine in the Bristol VRT.There were no takers . Between 1970-74 British Leyland were rhe only double deck builders with the Leyland Atlantean, Daimler/Leyland Fleetline and Bristol VR Grim days!
Hi Jeffrey, just an aside, Dennis built the LoDekka under License. The Dennis version was called the Loline. One of the photos in your video was a Loline
Can I also add the reason why Bristol vehicles were restricted to certain customers. When the 1945-1951 Labour Government nationalised the “Big Four” railways in 1948, because of the large railway investment in the Tilling Group and SMT Group, and others such as Balfour Beatty Group e.g Midland General, nationalised because of the State control of electricity supply, these bus operators came under State control. Also brought under State control were the chassis builders Bristol Commercial Vehicles and the associated body builders Eastern Coach Works of Lowestoft. As a “sop” to the Conservative Party opposition, who were concerned that Bristol and ECW would have an unfair advantage over “open market” products, sales of Bristol chassis and ECW bodies were to be restricted to State-owned operators only, hence the Lodekka only being available to nationalised operators. This situation lasted until the THC-Leyland share exchange of 1965, which freed Bristol and ECW from this restriction.
Hello! Thanks so much for this very informative comment as well as the previous comment on the Bridgemaster and the issue of state bus company ownership - very interesting! I just released a video on the Dennis Loline, which was built to address the problem of non-nationalized bus companies not being able to buy the Lodekka. Thank you very much for watching!!!
well, in some cities such as my hometown, Swansea, Wales, you had many low bridges for trains, but close to many large factories (those were the days!) and of course, in those days, few owned cars, so, the double-deckers would be full! Operators would need double the fleet of single-deckers - which meant more drivers and conductors. Double-Deckers were cheaper, moreso when one-man operation came in. Swansea had a very small fleet of AEC Bridgemasters (my uncle drove one) and they were used for the eastern part of Swansea, linking Port Tennant area with the city....which meant passing under many railway lines.
That’s the jackpot question. If I had to guess, they wanted to get as many people on as possible. I wonder if they ever built single deckers based on the classic ROUTEMASTER platform?
@@crabbymilton390 Sort of...yes. South Wales Transport had several very special single-deckers, one is preserved and restored at the Swansea Bus Museum, they were AEC Regent V, but as a single decker....looked like the top had been sliced off lol. They were used exclusively for the Swansea- Llanelli run, as there was one bridge near a steelwork, that had a clearance of under ten feet!
The British isles and commenwealth countries always prefered double decker trams/busses. Other countries had articulated and even semi-trailer busses. Is there a specific reason why the double decker tram/bus was prefered? On the otherhand double decker trains that are normal here on the continent of Europe are a rare thing in the UK.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 semi trailer and articulated busses also solve the same problem for congested old European cities with narrow curvy streets. f.e. Paris, Rome, Berlin, Brussels and Amsterdam used those options instead of Doubledekkers. Ofcourse there were some doubledekkers like the Busing doubledekker busses in 1950's Berlin. Doubledekkers never caught on, on the continent due to mainly height and to big turncircle problems. Double, triple and even some quad articulated busses (train busses) are very recent developments.
I guess it was their standard practice. I think articulated buses are difficult to use in British cities...look what happened in London! Thanks for watching!
2 месяца назад
Why not just use single-decker buses for routes with low bridges?
A bus manufacturer forbidden to sell buses to any customer who wanted one? That could only happen in Britain. In many countries that would be called "restraint of trade" and be against the law. Being state owned or private makes no difference. As for squashing a double-decker fitting under bridges, that sounds like stick-in-the-mud inertia thinking. Why not have a single decker and just make it longer to fit the same number of seats? If in fact that number of seats is actually required.
Good question...perhaps in some cases, a longer bus would be impractical due to tigh, winding roads, etc. And 40-ft. buses were unheard of at that time. Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You have surprised me. We had long busses in Australia as far back as pre-war. And they were supplied by British manufacturers like Guy and AEC. An interesting fact: a few decades ago, a study was done in Australia as the bus companies (all government owned) found it impossible to make a profit - fares having to be low enough to compete with private cars. The study concluded that while big and even bigger busses would be more cost effective on some routes at peak times, in many routes and at most run times, mini busses would be better. This made sense to me as my wife went to work on a bus and there was often only 3 or 4 other passengers. However the bus driver's union objected and threatened to strike and the government caved in and stayed with the big busses. I wonder if bus operators in Britain had this same inertia problem - always buying the same length bus because "that's what we do." A private company that operated in the 1950's in Perth had imported Austin school buses and put adult seating in. These were smaller than the big Guys and AEC's, more appropriate to many routes. They found them too unreliable though. Those old British-made Guys and AEC's were heavy, noisy, with a very hard ride, and lacked power, but their reliability was pretty solid apparently. About 30 years ago Transperth bought some very long three-axle articulated busses for heavy use routes. These seem to have disappeared now. Perhaps they were not cost effective, perhaps they were trouble prone - I don't know why. I did ask a driver once what they were like to drive. He said the ones in which the driving wheels were in the front unit were not so bad,, but the ones in which the driving wheels were in the trailer handled very badly on turns.
ruclips.net/video/4csbCOIPyHk/видео.htmlsi=SafzpCzGq_4nAl2K&t=345 - Ahh Premier at the old garage in Stainforth. The used to do our school busses and the service bus from Doncaster to Thorne/Moorends and sometimes out to Goole. They were one of the only small operators of the Alisa Volvo buses as well
I grew up with the East Yorkshire Bridgemasters from dark blue to NBC poppy red. EYMS was our local bus company. I never liked them, preferring the Atlanteans.
@JeffreyOrnstein as a kid we used to ask the drivers if we could have the AEC badge on the grille. Most laughed but one actually tried to prize if off for me. I wasn't lucky though, it was stuck fast.
![The Guy Wulfrunian Story: The Edsel of British Buses? [UK Bus History]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w4W-6MkAoZE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Guy Wulfrunian Story: The Edsel of British Buses? [UK Bus History]](/img/tr.png)
Jeffrey! THANK YOU! I Love these buses for a very personal reason!
57 years ago, in the mid-60s, my uncles worked for my local bus company, BET owned South Wales Transport, they were a driver and conductor respectively. One day, when I was around 3 years old, they took me to see their garage and look at the red monsters lol.
I stood in front of a Bridgemaster with Weymann bodywork: what you can't see in a photo about that bodywork, was the fact the top deck, leaned Outward, over the drivers cab!
As a toddler, standing at that noble radiator and looking UP..!... it was like looking up at a cliff face! I've loved them ever since lol.
Alas, the Bridgemaster's SWT owned, were passed onto sister company, Oxford Bus Services and Yorkshire. The salty sea air of Swansea, caused issues with the rear sections of steel body, and the hills could prove a struggle for the slightly underpowered engine, especially for a full bus!
SWT kept a large fleet of AEC Regent Vs well into the 1970s and they were very successful...I caught them to school daily lol.
Thanks you, for covering British buses...you must be unique, few Americans take the trouble! Thanks Jeffrey!
Hello! I'm so happy you like my videos!!! What a great story about the Bridgemaster - I did not know the top deck leaned forward over the cab! Must have been quite an impressive bus. Too bad it doesn't get much coverage, if any. Thank you so much for watching!!!
Ahh. East Kent Bus Company on holiday between Westgate-on-Sea and Margate with the Bridgemaster. The driver would let me move the lever to open the doors. And I remember the "Open Top" version that ran from Minnis Bay, Birchington to Pegwell Bay, Ramsgate where the Cross-Channel Hovercraft operated from. The East Kent "Open Top" was white painted with a glass panelled upper screen at the front. Such lovely childhood memories.
I'm nearly 70 and next to Beverley arch was an ice-cream shop, my father and yours truly used to marvel at skill of the bus drivers negotiating their approach whilst licking a vanilla cone.
Aah memories!
Excellent video.
Regards from London
Yes - I remember the Beverley Bar AEC's - and the ice cream next door was the unique Burgess!
@@robertp.wainman4094 Thanks for the memory jolt.
You're right Burgesses Ice-cream shop. Is it still there without Googling 😕
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Wow, that's an interesting story! Must have been great to see that! Thanks for watching!
The photo of the front of the Eastern Coach Works at Lowestoft brought back happy memories. I was raised about 1 1/2 miles from ECW. The Bristol chassis vehicles would drive past us on the way to the works and newly completed buses would drive past, in the opposite direction, to their various owners around the UK. Our local bus services (around Lowestoft) were provided by Eastern Counties (customers of ECW) but the Lowestoft Corporation buses were not sourced from there. I have had many a ride on a Lodekka - they saw quite a lot of service on Route 3 (Lowestoft-Oulton Broad circular), even though there were no low bridges on that route! The ECW site is now an industrial park or some such.
Wow, that must have been awesome to live near the ECW factory and see all those new buses! Thanks for watching!
Finally an AEC feature!
I never would have dreamt an American would be educating me on a model from a a marque I have idolised for a very long time. I grew up catching underfloor and rear engined AEC buses with Australian bodywork. Some ex London AEC Merlins made their way to Australia and I have a very early memory of riding in one.
Among the last AECs sold here in the late 70s was the 36 foot Swift rear engine model with the big 760 ci AEC engine and I heard these came from a cancelled order in Durban South Africa! 66 went to the sta fleet in Adelaide with ZF 2 speed transmissions and several went to various privately run bus companies in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.
You may want to look into that model some day.
At least one Bridgemaster made it's way down under.
Hello! Yes, the AEC Merlin/Swifts may be a good subject in the future! Thanks for watching!
I must say you are good at pronouncing British place names, for an American!
Took the words out of my mouth.
Regards from London
Hello! Thanks for the compliment!!! I appreciate it! Thanks for watching!
Thank you very much. From New York City!
I don't think that your comment about Jeffrey's prononciations really needs a mention.
Alternatively his explanations of these bus types and their final demise was worth knowing.
AEC later had the Renown, which was slightly more successful and looked quite a bit better. They are worth a look too!
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll look into the Renown. Thank you for watching!
For eight years of my secondary school, I occasionally used a London Transport RLH , route 336 Country area, Watford - Amersham. It had AEC chassis but provincial body with an awkward well down the starboard side and long 6 or 8 bench seats on the port side making entrance/exit difficult. Very different 'buses from the plethora of handsome RTs that were used for pretty much everything else. I think they were introduced 1956 to replace low bridge STLs.
Hello! Thanks for your experience with the buses of your secondary school years! And thanks for watching!!
I remember the Rotherham Bridgemasters and the Sheffield ones. The Sheffield ones had a rear entrance, and the Rotherham ones had a front entrance. They were very bouncy buses, and I was told that the suspension was an early form of the Hydrolastic suspension as fitted to Morris/Austin 1100, designed by Alex Isingonis. The Renowns, which Rotherham also bought, did not have this bounce.
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Bridgemasters!! Thank you for watching!!!
Thanks. The Dennis Loline (2.24) - based on the Lodekka - were also in the diminishing market for front engined low height double deck buses outside of state control.
Hello! Thank you for the additional info! Thanks for watching!
I can distinctly remember travelling on East Yorkshire Bridgemasters as a child. I always preferred them to the nausea inducing KHCT Atlanteans. They had an old school charm to them. It was nice to see some of the old girls again. Thank you for the memories.
Glad you liked the video. Thanks for your recollection of the Bridgemasters and thanks for watching!
Haha, no way, @8:15 is my photo, that's soo cool to see it being used :) but yeah it's a lovely bus to have restored in our area. I was quite vague with the description, but it was actually being used on a shuttle to a classic car show! Very fitting in think! Although on the subject of double deckers, perhaps you could do a video on all of the cities/towns in American with double deckers? I feel it would be quite interesting!
Hello! I'm glad you liked the video and that you are ok with my using your great photo! Lots to choose from, but I only try to pick the best ones!! I'll look into your suggestion - unfortunately, info on American double deckers, especially of the past are often spotty at best! Thanks for watching!
I remember riding to school on that very Leicester Bridgemaster bus in the early 60s (9:26). We even lived in Stoneygate on the route 29! I remember they seemed very modern and comfortable compared with the usual much older Leylands and Daimlers used by Leicester City Transport at the time, but I think they only had a couple of Bridgemasters. Never thought I'd see it again 60 years later!
Hello! Thanks for the memory of riding on the Bridgemaster! Thanks for watching!
Sorry that should have been 7:52 not 9:26 for the Leicester 29 bus.
My Dad used to drive Bristol Lodekkas & VR in Taunton. Both lovey & well built. I saw a Lodekka Bus in New York to once.
Hello! I, too remember seeing a Lodekka in New York. I still have a memory of one in front of the Empire State Building around 1990 or so! Thanks for watching!
Excellent job again. I got a real kick out of this one. I've never driven a Bridgemaster, probably never even seen one. But I first drove buses for a little family-owned bus company in Buckinghamshire called Red Rover. It got bought out within 2 or 3 years of me working for them. So to see one of their buses was a real buzz, and to hear them mentioned by name was even buzzier!
We didn;t have any Bridgemasters when I drove for them. But we did have one remaining AEC Renown - the bus that superceded it. IIRC it was DAU358C, and they kept it around for training. I got to drive it a couple of times in the late 80s/90s. IT was hard work to someone who'd been used to VRs, Olympians, and Nationals!
Hello! I'm really glad you liked my video! Yes, I like these small independents like Red Rover!! What a time it must have been! Thanks for watching!
As a schoolkid in Sheffield in the 60's and having to take two buses to school and back again, I remember Sheffield Corporation Transport had a number of low bridge AECs with the open rear entry. Only once did I get on one of these buses to go home from school. They were constructed differently on the upper deck. Rather than having the usual centre aisle with a pair of double seats on either side, they had a dropped well that ran the entire length of the upper deck from the top of the stairs to the front of the bus, and each seat accommodated four passengers sat abreast which you stepped up into having to bow your head. This 'well' manifested itself as a lowered ceiling line running the length of the lower deck along the right hand side.
That is the normal layout for low-bridge double deckers.
The Lodekka was revolutionary for NOT having it.
Yes I remember these buses in the 19 route. I think these were older than the Bridgemasters. Easily recognised by the front destination layout with the route number window to the side of the two destination numbers. The Bridgmaster had the route number window above the destination ones.
@@Kivetonandrew Back in the 60's schooling was very different to how it is now. Your secondary school was determined by how you did in the 11+ exam which you took towards the end of your primary education. I, for my sins and with more than a modicum of disbelief, actually passed the 11+ which resulted in me going to Myers Grove situated in the north of Sheffield, and I lived at Gleadless on the southern outskirts of the city. Hence two buses to school and two home again, changing in the city centre. The bus from town to school was the 88 Roscoe Bank, and nine times out of ten would be a Leyland. When it came to school turfing out time, extra buses would be laid on to cope with the large numbers of pupils needing transport home again. It was never a genteel queue that boarded the bus with a sense of civility, but more of a free for all with about six trying to get through the entrance at once. And it was on one of these occasions that one of the extra buses was a low bridge AEC. I always preferred the AECs to the Leylands, I liked the deep throaty roar they (mostly) made. So much so that I once came home and proudly declared I wanted to be a bus driver (hoping to drive AECs,) my mother went ape shit - telling me I wasn't wasting my education just to be a Bus Driver. On the route between my house and town (20/33) an abomination appeared from time to time - the Atlantean. Didn't like it. I much preferred the open rear entry bus myself. As for my intended career as a bus driver - I went in the RAF.
Thanks for your recollection of riding the lowbridge buses! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for another great video!
Hello! Thank you for watching! Much appreciated!
In the UK at the time there were 2 types of top deck layout; 'Highbridge' with seats for 2 either side of a central gangway and the 'Lowbridge' layout with a sunken offside gangway and rows of 4 abreast seating, and the lower deck having the standard central gangway. The 'Lowbridge' layout allowed the vehicle to be built to a lower overall height but wasm't popular due to it's lack of headroom and that the conductor had to reach across passengers on the top deck. The drop centre rear axle on the Bristol Lodekka allowed buses to be built to the 'Highbridge' layout but built to a similar height to 'Lowbridge' buses. Changing geography in areas where 'Lowbridge' buses were tradittionally used also contibuted to it's lack of sales; being introduced when bus use was declining and single deckers would suffice on certain routes and lso because many railways were closing and low bridges were removed allowing the roads to be used by standard height double deckers. Regards, Ian Simpson.
Hello Ian! Thank you for the clarification of Lowbridges!! I appreciate the knowledge!
Thanks for watching!
East Yorkshire Motor Services did have the biggest fleet of Bridgemasters at 50, however what is not widely remembered is that the first 4 from 1960 did not have the Beverley Bar profile - they did fit, but it was a bit too close for comfort so the remaining 46, split into 3 batches, had the angled upper deck windows.
Oh, that is interesting! I don't recall coming across that fact when I was doing research! Would have put that into the video if I had known! Thanks for watching!
Remember riding these Bridgemasters when in Bridlington & Flamborough. We had the Bristol Lodekka's in York.
I'm very impressed by your research and the depth of your knowledge. Very enjoyable.
Thank you, I appreciate it very much!!! Thanks for watching!
This channel has been a real find for me. It's a delight and really cool to see an American interested in our buses!
You make wonderfully informative videos - you really 'know your stuff!'
Hello! Thank you - I'm really glad you like my videos! Thanks for watching!
BET bought Dennis Loline buses- which was a license built Lodekka. They were used by Aldershot & District and the Loline chassis was made in that company's backyard. BET also owned a TV station- Rediffusion was the first commercial TV station on air in the UK- as well as various bus stations!
Wow, didn't know BET owned a TV station! Thank for the info and thank you for watching!
Interesting that you should show a pic of Red Rover of Aylesbury Bridgemaster 6116BH. In 1962, Baxter’s Bus Service of Airdrie ordered two Bridgemasters, after purchasing similar 78BVD in 1961. Before these could be delivered, Baxter’s was taken over by Scottish Omnibuses of Edinburgh, part of the Scottish Bus Group. Baxter’s’ two Bridgemasters were intended to be 479/480DVA (a photo of 480DVA in Baxter livery prior to delivery features on the Park Royal Vehicles website).
ACV Sales got to hear of these two undelivered vehicles and saw a “bit of an opportunity”. AEC had got to hear of the difficulties two Scottish Bus Group fleets (Western SMT and Central SMT) were having with their Albion Lowlanders and saw an opportunity to place AEC double-deckers into SBG fleets.
What AEC did was to try to place these two Bridgemasters elsewhere and replace them with the new “Renown” model (the Bridgemaster’s separate-chassis replacement). They managed to divert one, 479DVA, to Red Rover as 6116BH, but the other one had no takers, so became Scottish Omnibuses BB962 (9962SF).
The Renown appeared with Scottish Omnibuses in December 1962 as BB963 (9963SF), unfortunately the only Renown to enter SBG service.
We have to remember the wonderfully musical transmission sounds of AEC's!
OH, it must have sounded awesome! Thanks for watching!
@@robertp.wainman4094 Glad you brought that up. Were those transmissions some sort of semi automatic? I remember reading that many of those were repowered with CUMMINS engines and ALLISON fully automatic transmissions. Much more power and easier to drive.
Norhing beat the sound of the AEC diesels, both with a fluid flywheel gearbox or synchromesh manual.
Went to school many times on 310 MFC [5.21] when new with City of Oxford in the 1960s..was allocated to Wantage Depot. Thanks for posting🙂
Hello! Thanks for your recollection of the City of Oxford Bridgemaster. Great color scheme! Thanks for watching!
Another great video Jeffrey. On the lowbridge British bus front, you should take a look at the model that predominated in our part of north Derbyshire (UK) - the Leyland, or Albion in Scotand, Lowlander. It succeeded about as well as the Bridgemaster, but was well represented in our local BET group operator, East Midland Motor Services.
Hello Melanie! I'm happy you liked the video!!! I'll look at the Albion Lowlander. I've definitely heard of it! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Thank you Jeffery. It's always good of you to reply. We really do enjoy your videos. Yes, the Lowlander was, he tells me, my husband's favourite bus 'of all time' - particulary East Midlands' D166 . . . I really had no idea what an idiot he was when I married him!
Great video Jeffrey, I vaguely recall the Sheffield one in service but I cannot recall riding on it. I have seen an East Yorkshire example in preservation, it is a beautiful thing.
Hello! Yes, the preserved ones look beautiful! Thank you so much for watching!
I drove the AEC Renown. Ugh! heavy noisy and hot. Although the AEC engine was very powerful. I passed my bus test on a Bristol Lowdecker. Slow, cool, and very nice to drive. A driver name of Tal Jenkins (Tony Jenkins). On his retirement from Cwmbran National Welsh/Stage Coach. Bought an AEC Renown and restored it. Sadly Tal passed away a few years ago, but the bus is still going. Thanks.
Hello! Thanks for the memories of the Renown! Thanks for watching!
Great video, Gotta give them credit, they ere trying to fill the niche of bridge busses, did not know the British government had a lock on bus sales, lots of information, the busses looked good restored
Hello! Yes, AEC did try! Was an odd situation back then with state owned bus companies. Thanks for watching!
I love your videos Jeffrey -- they elicit lots of memories from the olden days!
Hello Daniele, thank you so much for your comment, I'm really glad you like my videos! Thank you for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I really do love your channel!!
Yes, good pronunciation of English place names. Greetings from Leicester. Well done. Very interesting again.
Thanks for the feedback!! Thanks for watching!
You should do the Gillig Low Floor, it is from a newer time period and not very remarkable but its pure prevalence makes it deserving of a video. Its very popular in the US, especially with smaller towns because of the lack of a 60 ft modal and it being generally simpler than NFI.
Hello! I will look into the Gillig Low Floor. If there's something really interesting about it, maybe I'll do a future video on it. Thanks for watching!
No thank you Jeffrey, your content is GREAT!
Hello! Thank you so much for watching! I am very happy you liked my video!
Brilliant videos and very informative and entertaining 👍
Hello! Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!
Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield, but when the Bristol Lodekka LD6B lowhight double deck bus were developed only for the Tilling Group in state owned while the B.E.T. Group weren't allowed to have them. Dennis Brothers Ltd of Gilford had produced their very own version of the Lodekka under licence & known as the Dennis Loline. The Dennis Loline version was based on the Bristol Lodekka type but using Dennis front & rear axles, a Gardner 6LW 8.4 litre 6-cylinder diesel engine & a Dennis 5-speed constant mesh overdrive gearbox & a single plate friction clutch, also it also had an optional larger Gardner 6LX diesel engine fitted, but they also fitted with a Leyland 0.600 9.8. diesel engine plus an optional 4-speed semi-automatic gearbox with fluid flywheel & this were available on the open market for bus operators such as North Western, Walsall Corporation, Reading Corporation, Aldershot & District, Middlesbrough Corporation, Halifax Corporation & also the very unique ultra-lowhight version as a commercial motor show exhibit was Barton. But it ware based on a Bristol Lodekka version via you should do an insight on the Gilford Lodekka what's really the Dennis Loline built under licence from Bristol. Thank you for your co-operation on this very strange Bristol Lodekka & Dennis loline lowhight double deck bus subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield.
Hello! Thanks for all of that interesting info! Thanks for watching!
I remember the Bridgemasters in Sheffield. Fleet numbers 519 to 525. All were rear loaders apart from 525. Strangely I rode all these buses, 525 being my favourite, on an urban route with no overbridges! No 525 is still around in Sheffield livery. Its had several owners recently but a look on the DVLA shows it as being taxed. Nice to know its about somewhere.
Great to hear your recollections of the Bridgemaster! Thanks for watching!
The Dennis Brothers of Guildford, who were famous for Fire Engines, but also build Dustcarts, and now busses, were building a licence built copy of the Bristol Lodecca, called the Dennis Loline.
Before these were designed, you would order your bus as Normal, or Low Bridge layout. The upper deck of the Low Bridge bus, would have a sunken gangway along the length of the bus, on the driver's side, from the stairs at the back of the bus, to the front seats.
The seats along the top deck of the bus, were all a bench of four seats, so if you are sitting next to the window, three passengers would have to get out of their seats, to let you get off the bus. This was the reason why placing the drive shaft along towards the side of the bus, instead of along the centre line, wwas a preferred option for the bus companies.
Hello! Thanks for the additional information on the low bridge buses, very interesting! Thanks very much for watching!
Nice littel video. There aren't many books on the Bridgemaster, despite it being a well known AEC type. Believe there were 180 built with varyng body styles. Integral body gave way to the Renown with chassis and then the Regent V, all looked very similar. Believe too, there is a difference between a 'low-height' and 'low-bridge' bus, the same as knowing the difference between a forward entrance or front entrance.
Glad you liked the video! Yes, there isn't much out there on the Bridgemaster - at least now there's something, LOL! Thanks for watching!
In operators' jargon, a 'low-bridge' body has the dropped-gangway, four-a-side layout on the upper deck. The Lodekka was a 'low-height' body, with the normal centre-gangway layout.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Thought this was the definition. Lodekka 'low-height', as you say and RLH as low-bridge.
Is this you again? Fantastic! The buses I took as a child (in Liverpool) were green, hop on hop off at the back, supplied by Liverpool Transport. I'm fascinated by your interest in Brit buses. Thank you.
Hello! Yes, it's me again, LOL! Glad you like my videos! Thanks for watching!
I am not sure if the ACV Crossley was a Crossley product I could be wrong but the chassis and body builders at the motor show were limited to one product each so the badge engineering gave an extra display space
Hello! I believe I read something to that effect about the badges and using a different badge to allow another display. Thanks for watching!
The first four Bridgemasters had an aluminium structure and were built at Crossley Motors, (although the Belfast bus was finished by local coachbuilders Harkness) all but the Birmingham example carried AEC badges, and all but the Birmingham and Walsall buses had AV590 engines, Park Royal Vehicles' manager had come from Eastern Coach Works and preferred Aluminum structures so BET pressuring the reversion to steel was resented and the revised version was devoid of style. ACV sales provided more Demonstrator Bridgemaster buses than the Routemaster, Regent mk V and Renown put together.
You've got some knowledge. Wow. Great channel
Thank you, I'm glad you like my videos!! Thanks for watching!!!
The really damning feature of the Bridgemaster was the integral construction. Apart from London, nobody at that period was interested in a vehicle which did not allow the operator to specify their own body manufacturer. This was particularly the case when there was still a substantial number of coachbuilders to choose from, and municipal operators particularly often had a favoured (often local) supplier prepared to customise bodies to suit their particular requirements. There had been several previous attempts to sell integral vehicles by Beadle, Sentinel, Leyland (with the Olympic) and others, all ending in tears. London had some integral AEC trolleybuses prewar, but even the Routemaster found only a single customer outside London in the shape of Northern General.
Oh, yes, the integral build was a bad idea! Thanks for the great clarification! And thanks for watching!
I never went on an East Yorkshire one but always liked the look of them. I imagine they were rather cramped when full. Another well researched great video
They were great buses, I regularly caught them to go to school from Swansea to Port Talbot for over a year, they could go like the clappers on the jersey marine dual carriageway , I swear we went over the bridge at the oil works around 60MPH , they belted along that stretch from Baglan to Swansea docks. Probably this ,the Regent V and the Renown are my favorite buses of all time.
Wow, sounds like they were fun to ride! Thanks for watching!
Of all the vehicles to pick for a thumbnail you pick an AEC Bridgemaster from Premier motors of Stainforth, South Yorkshire who were based just a few mile from where I grew up. Travelled on that numerous times as a lad but never understood what prompted its purchase as Premier never ran any routes with low bridges so the decision must have been based on price. Premier later got absorbed into the passenger transport executive that was formed in the late 70s.
Glad you liked the thumbnail! Interesting to hear about Premier! Thanks for watching!
It's interesting since at the time across the channel the state-owned Régie Renault not only sold buses to private operators, but their core business was selling cars to private individuals.
Interesting to hear that about Renault! Thanks for watching!!
The Lodekka was a specialist low frame bus with a captive market with the BET group, rather like the AEC Routemaster with London Transport. The Bridgemaster was an integral chassis-less bus like the RM, but made for the open market. London RTs were AEC Regent IIIs everywhere else. The Regent V was a conventional chassis bus which drew from AEC experience with RT, RM and Bridgemaster. The open market values low price.
Hello! Thank you for the additional info! And thank you for watching!!
You missed out Western Welsh ! They had 20 very early Bridgemasters built to a length of 28ft . They were excellent buses.
Hello! Ok, I know I may have missed a few pics here and there (hard to get all of them in) - but I did mention Western Welsh, at least. Thanks for watching!
I remember Ribble Motor Services, one of the largest independent bus operators outside ofLondon and part of the BET group, used to have high bridge and low bridge versions of the Atlantean. Inside of the upper saloon above the front windows, it would say 13' 6" on the low bridge and 14' 6" on the high bridge. Not sure if this was to reassure the front seat upper saloon passengers though! I think they had some high and low bridge Leyland Titans before the Atlanteans as well.
Interesting info about the heights of the buses! Thanks for watching!
Once again Jeffery, you present something new and different. It does complicate things when builders are restricted who they can sell products to.
I'm happy you like another one of my videos! Yes, it was a complicated situation in Britain back then!! Thanks for watching!
I can't believe the BET Group couldn't see the benefit of aluminium over steel. A lighter weight and resistance to rust were a good advance over an all-steel body, especially considering how much salt we put on our roads in winter time.
I guess they wanted strength above all else? I don't really know. Thanks for watching!
It was all about reducing first cost, BET bulk bought and pooled orders from subsidiary companies to get large tenders in order to negotiate bulk discounts. The insistence on steel frames was linked to writing down the value of the bus over 12 years, it was felt that with two heavy overhauls that was more cost-effective than a more costly aluminum frame.
I'm torn between being fascinated by the sheer innovation and near cottage-industry production of British buses and thinking they would've been better off with a single standardized one-size-fits-all design and putting all that engineering effort elsewhere.
Standardization vs. non-standardization is a good question. One thing is not in doubt - the huge variety of British buses at the time. So many body builders....contrast that to US practice of standardization. All we had in the 60s and 70s was the GM and Flxible New Look bus! Thanks for watching!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BLINK MAN!!!
Ok.
Thanks
Hello! Thank you so much! I very much appreciate the Super Thanks! And thank you for watching my video, I'm very glad you liked it!
Birmingham City Transport operated 3 AEC Bridgemaster Buses over the years all operating from Tile Cross Garage on the number 14 bus route and some times on the 28 and 23 bus routes, the first one on loan was was a demonstrator reg number 159 JHX and was painted Blue and Cream nothing like BCT but cream roof to upper deck window base, mid section Blue, then lower deck window area cream and then from below the blower deck windows to the bottom skirt in Blue, , this was returned when nthe BCT purchased a rear entrance AEC Bridgemaster fleet number 3228 reg number 9 JML this operated for years for BCT again on the route 14, 23 and 28 out of Tile Cross Garage and apparently it was prone to breaking down a lot. For short while operating next to 3228 BCT trialed a front entrance version of the Bridgemaster reg number 2311 MK but got rid of it biut 3228 souldierd on for yeas plodding along on the number 14 route and was scrapped just before BCT was absorbed into the West Midlands PTE arround 1968/69, when the BCT Mechanics thought they had got rid of this AEC Bridgemaster to their horror they found that they had acrued the AEC Bridgemaster Buses of Walsall Corporation when it was along with Birmingham City Transport. Walsall Corporation, Wolverhampton Corportion and West Bromwich Corporation Buses were absorbed into the new WMPTE. it did not take long for the WMPTE to rid its self of Walsalll's Bridgemasters
Hello! Thanks for all that information on the Bridgemasters at BCT! Birmingham had a really interesting bus system and some unique buses...could be a good subject for a future video. Thanks for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Hi Jeffry, Yes it would be a good vidio as the Birmingham Standard Bus evolved over years and was rock so;ld in desighn with many of it's design evolving into the MCW orion, MCW built all of Birmingham's sandard rear entrance bus bodies and it was a synominus as the London RT & RM, Midland Red D9 and Bristol Lodecker and was that strong and sturdy that when the WMPTE was formed in 1971 it carried on for years with examples moving to run in Wolverhampton and Walsall replacing their aged bus fleet until I believe the late 1970's with the last desighn seeing service along side irmingham's Trams, Trolley buses and the modern day Fleetline. What as a Brummie was tht when comming off our Holidays it was all ways a welcome site seeing a Birmingham City Transport Bus at the City boundary welcomming you home.
It’s quite striking that the Bridgemaster specification page tells you the bus’s width and length but doesn’t mention the key feature, its height?
How not to sell your product on its strengths!
LOL, a convenient ommission! Thanks for watching!
Very interesting and enjoyable video, never knew about the political complications involved.
Regardless of the tapered upper deck side windows, East Yorkshire bus drivers deserved a bonus for taking these vehicles through the Beverly Bar. They really needed a guided busway to safely negotiate this obstacle. Hopefully neither buses or brickwork were damaged.
incidentally, does anyone know how much lower was a Bridgemaster than a regular double decker? Or indeed the Bristol Lodekka?
I'm really glad you liked the video! Yes, that took great skill in driving under the Bar! Thanks for watching!
Thanks - the Bridgemaster was always so ugly for some reason. A note of pedantry....the term 'Lowbridge' bus usually referred to an earlier design of bus for low bridges, where the upper floor gangway was on the right hand side (rather than central) and sunken, and the seats were in rows of 4. This allowed overall height to be lower, but as can be imagined, was extremely awkward in use. Then Bristol designed the Lodekka, which had a lower height chassis, enabling a bus with a conventional central-gangway design to be of low height. And as you say, AEC designed the Bridgemaster for firms who couldn't buy the Bristol - the Dennis Loline was also an alternative, which was a licenced version of the Lodekka. I guess that strictly, the Lodekka, Loline and Bridgemaster should be described as 'Low height' buses rather than 'Lowbridge', not that it really matters at this distance!!
Hello! Thanks for the clarification! I appreciate the info! Thanks for watching!
Exactly so, Huddersfield in the 1950s had Daimler low bridge buses of this layout, they were the only ones suitable for the Holme valley road which passed through Lockwood Railway viaduct. Eventually the road surface was loweres a couple of feet to give clearance for standard buses and artic trucks.
In Manchester UK they are on some routs using double decker electric Buses the motor is on the back and they are much nicer to ride on and much more quitter.
Awesome! Must be great to ride on them! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Very smooth just a very low noise from the electric motor no throbbing of a diesel engine it has GPS and down stairs there is a small TV screen giving the route and announcing the next stop on the EV bus I can remember in the 1960's riding on a new double decker bus with the engine on the back and sitting on the back seat in the summer the heat from the engine was not nice I was sweating a lot.
Its a shame AEC never developed a Rearmaster (like the one off FRM but with a chassis. However the Leyland takeover killed that off, and they refused to produce the FRM in quantity offering the AV691 engine in the Bristol VRT.There were no takers . Between 1970-74 British Leyland were rhe only double deck builders with the Leyland Atlantean, Daimler/Leyland Fleetline and Bristol VR Grim days!
Interesting scenario - a Bridgemaster in the form of a Routemaster FRM! Thanks for watching!
Hi Jeffrey, just an aside, Dennis built the LoDekka under License. The Dennis version was called the Loline. One of the photos in your video was a Loline
Hello Stuart - Thanks for the info. Thanks for watching!
Can I also add the reason why Bristol vehicles were restricted to certain customers.
When the 1945-1951 Labour Government nationalised the “Big Four” railways in 1948, because of the large railway investment in the Tilling Group and SMT Group, and others such as Balfour Beatty Group e.g Midland General, nationalised because of the State control of electricity supply, these bus operators came under State control. Also brought under State control were the chassis builders Bristol Commercial Vehicles and the associated body builders Eastern Coach Works of Lowestoft.
As a “sop” to the Conservative Party opposition, who were concerned that Bristol and ECW would have an unfair advantage over “open market” products, sales of Bristol chassis and ECW bodies were to be restricted to State-owned operators only, hence the Lodekka only being available to nationalised operators.
This situation lasted until the THC-Leyland share exchange of 1965, which freed Bristol and ECW from this restriction.
Hello! Thanks so much for this very informative comment as well as the previous comment on the Bridgemaster and the issue of state bus company ownership - very interesting! I just released a video on the Dennis Loline, which was built to address the problem of non-nationalized bus companies not being able to buy the Lodekka. Thank you very much for watching!!!
What kept operators from doing the obvious and use single-deckers for routes with low bridges? Same as anyone else on the planet?
well, in some cities such as my hometown, Swansea, Wales, you had many low bridges for trains, but close to many large factories (those were the days!) and of course, in those days, few owned cars, so, the double-deckers would be full! Operators would need double the fleet of single-deckers - which meant more drivers and conductors. Double-Deckers were cheaper, moreso when one-man operation came in. Swansea had a very small fleet of AEC Bridgemasters (my uncle drove one) and they were used for the eastern part of Swansea, linking Port Tennant area with the city....which meant passing under many railway lines.
That’s the jackpot question. If I had to guess, they wanted to get as many people on as possible. I wonder if they ever built single deckers based on the classic ROUTEMASTER platform?
@@crabbymilton390 Sort of...yes. South Wales Transport had several very special single-deckers, one is preserved and restored at the Swansea Bus Museum, they were AEC Regent V, but as a single decker....looked like the top had been sliced off lol. They were used exclusively for the Swansea- Llanelli run, as there was one bridge near a steelwork, that had a clearance of under ten feet!
It may also have something to do with the restricted length of 30 feet....double decker buses had more capacity. Thanks for watching!
Oh yes, they looked weird! Maybe a subject for a future video!
...the Barton livery is nearly as iconic as the ATSF warbonnet livery...
You may be right about that! Nothing better than the Warbonnet!! Thanks for watching!
The British isles and commenwealth countries always prefered double decker trams/busses.
Other countries had articulated and even semi-trailer busses.
Is there a specific reason why the double decker tram/bus was prefered?
On the otherhand double decker trains that are normal here on the continent of Europe are a rare thing in the UK.
In congested cities, having twice the seating capacity in the same groundspace is clearly a good move.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 semi trailer and articulated busses also solve the same problem for congested old European cities with narrow curvy streets.
f.e. Paris, Rome, Berlin, Brussels and Amsterdam used those options instead of Doubledekkers.
Ofcourse there were some doubledekkers like the Busing doubledekker busses in 1950's Berlin.
Doubledekkers never caught on, on the continent due to mainly height and to big turncircle problems.
Double, triple and even some quad articulated busses (train busses) are very recent developments.
I guess it was their standard practice. I think articulated buses are difficult to use in British cities...look what happened in London! Thanks for watching!
Why not just use single-decker buses for routes with low bridges?
LOL, that's too easy! Thanks for watching!
Lovely video - except - I do get fed up with the "zooming" effect when showing photographs. Just show the flippin' picture! Please !
Hello! Thanks for the feedback! And thanks for watching!
A bus manufacturer forbidden to sell buses to any customer who wanted one? That could only happen in Britain. In many countries that would be called "restraint of trade" and be against the law. Being state owned or private makes no difference.
As for squashing a double-decker fitting under bridges, that sounds like stick-in-the-mud inertia thinking. Why not have a single decker and just make it longer to fit the same number of seats? If in fact that number of seats is actually required.
Good question...perhaps in some cases, a longer bus would be impractical due to tigh, winding roads, etc. And 40-ft. buses were unheard of at that time. Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You have surprised me. We had long busses in Australia as far back as pre-war. And they were supplied by British manufacturers like Guy and AEC.
An interesting fact: a few decades ago, a study was done in Australia as the bus companies (all government owned) found it impossible to make a profit - fares having to be low enough to compete with private cars. The study concluded that while big and even bigger busses would be more cost effective on some routes at peak times, in many routes and at most run times, mini busses would be better. This made sense to me as my wife went to work on a bus and there was often only 3 or 4 other passengers. However the bus driver's union objected and threatened to strike and the government caved in and stayed with the big busses.
I wonder if bus operators in Britain had this same inertia problem - always buying the same length bus because "that's what we do."
A private company that operated in the 1950's in Perth had imported Austin school buses and put adult seating in. These were smaller than the big Guys and AEC's, more appropriate to many routes. They found them too unreliable though.
Those old British-made Guys and AEC's were heavy, noisy, with a very hard ride, and lacked power, but their reliability was pretty solid apparently.
About 30 years ago Transperth bought some very long three-axle articulated busses for heavy use routes. These seem to have disappeared now. Perhaps they were not cost effective, perhaps they were trouble prone - I don't know why. I did ask a driver once what they were like to drive. He said the ones in which the driving wheels were in the front unit were not so bad,, but the ones in which the driving wheels were in the trailer handled very badly on turns.
ruclips.net/video/4csbCOIPyHk/видео.htmlsi=SafzpCzGq_4nAl2K&t=345 - Ahh Premier at the old garage in Stainforth. The used to do our school busses and the service bus from Doncaster to Thorne/Moorends and sometimes out to Goole.
They were one of the only small operators of the Alisa Volvo buses as well
Thanks very much for watching!!
City of Oxford Motor Services brought a few
Yes, they did...nice paint scheme they had! Thanks for watching!
I grew up with the East Yorkshire Bridgemasters from dark blue to NBC poppy red. EYMS was our local bus company. I never liked them, preferring the Atlanteans.
Interesting to hear about your experience with the Bridgemasters! Thank you for watching!
@JeffreyOrnstein as a kid we used to ask the drivers if we could have the AEC badge on the grille. Most laughed but one actually tried to prize if off for me. I wasn't lucky though, it was stuck fast.