YOU TWO ARE MY FAVORITE to watch regarding board games! I love how you explain everything step-by-step, excellent camera work, and I love the great connection you both have together!! Much, much, love from Rhode Island
Wingspan's Oceania expansion added two critical features not in the base game: 1. A wild token (nectar) and 2. A rejigged player mat which allows players to trade food to reroll the feeder or refresh faceup cards. These changes make a huge difference to some of the issues you mention with the birdfeeder.
At first I felt they overcorrected the eggs by buffing food too much via nectar's flexibility, but after playing Oceania on the digital game, I'm seeing this is not the case. You no longer get nearly as many eggs as you did before, and nectar, like most foods are 1 out of 6 chances of being rolled, and are wasted if hoarded.
I still think they overdid the nectar with the extra bonus points you receive when you use the resource. The nectar hoarding is very easy to play around it imo. @@aos-archive
@@aos-archive Nectar/Wheat and Nectar/Cherry both appear on the dice, so its 1 out of 3 that nectar is rolled. But you're right that the effect on lessening egg spam it brings is very welcome.
I think these remarks are really important if you consider Wingspan, as the expansions really change the game. As I play the game on Boardgamearena quite a bit, I really miss all the great expansions that evolve Wingspan from a good game into a stellar game. I really think the difference is stark, for me going from an 7,5 to a 9. (out of 10) Not to mention that the expansions add: - Way more end of round goals and bonus cards, some of them completely affecting how and when you play out cards. - Blue birds that have a recurring effect at the end of the round, this allows for way more engine building and planning than the base game. - Yellow birds that have an end of game effect. Though not as impactful or build-around as the blue birds, they are definitely fun to play around with. - The Asia expansion adds a more intricate 2-player mode, but most of all a host of interesting, diverse and great looking birds. Some of the birds are wild, as they went overboard with a bunch of them. Overall, I love the Wingspan game with all the expansions a lot, the sheer amount of variety you get will all expansions is staggering. (almost to the point of it being a little too much) The only downside to the game - and this is mainly for the Asia expansion - is that the rules text on some of the cards is infinitely small and unreadable for people that need reading glasses and refuse to get one. The base game and first 2 expansions are fine, but for Asia, Stonemaier games whipped out the tinyfont to screw all the old people. A bit of an oversight.
When I was at Dice Tower West last week, I took a photo of folks playing this and texted it to my daughter (huge dragon fan and also likes Wingspan) and she told me in all caps - to "GET THAT GAME NEXT!" :P So, just as Meepleville was shutting down their booth at the Con at 2:30 PM on Sunday, I ran over there in the middle of our On Mars game to pick up one of the last 4-5 copies of the 250 copies they started with at the Con. I brought it home and my daughter, home from spring break, was super thrilled by the art, theme, and the game itself. Plan to get it to the table tomorrow! Great video as always guys, and it was so awesome seeing both of you at DTW and getting to play Dune Imperium and having some awesome tacos! (And also shooting some dice w/Naveen and Chuck and coming away winners was an extra bonus!)
I have played my preview copy a few times and I actually think the hatchlings are very good value. With one of mine I cached 5 milks which earned 5 dragon guild steps and 2 resources for it. It is really nice to use cave cards or the final crimson exploration reward to hatchings for added caching benefits!
Great run through. Thanks. Excited for this one. It’s certainly an interesting development of the Wingspan mechanisms. I love the changes and am excited to explore all the cards.
Will there be a playthrough video? Among all the content creators I follow, which are a lot, I think you two make the best playthroughs! Please do one!
Thanks for your review and introduction video about this game. I wasn't sure I was going to get it, I am still on the fence, but not for lack of you both explaining and showing off the game well. This is not my first 'before you play' video, but with a couple of really good ones that I've watched before this, I am convinced I want to see more. Definitely a channel worth subscribing and supporting!
Thanks guys !! So glad you did a video about this game, I really look forward to playing it !! Big fans of Wingspan here, we have about a hundred plays of it, so it will be really nice to have something similar yet different enough :) Can't wait :D Take care and thanks for your awesome content !!!
I LOVE the mechanics in Wyrmspan so much more than Wingspan. It feels way smoother and resource gathering is much less of a chore. Despite the smaller number of resources being taken per turn, not having to rely on a dice tower for your resources feel MUCH better. Also, the coins are MUCH better than the dwindling action cubes you get at Wingspan. I’d rather have Wingspan’s theme though. Learning and seeing art about birds that actually exist is way more fun and stimulating to me. I have no investment to fictional dragons that only exist in a Wyrmspan universe.
I’ve seen a few people mention the board gets messier because of the cave cards being under the dragons. Is there any reason you can’t just discard the cave card (or otherwise set it aside) before putting a dragon on it? From what I can tell once there’s a dragon in its spot the cave serves no purpose, right?
I’m trying to remember if there are some dragon cards that allow you to re-trigger the cave card effects. Also we didn’t run into cards that allowed us to move a dragon in our plays, but if so then it may be necessary to keep track of areas that have been excavated.
Just heard about this game and was glad to see you guys did an overview for it! I always find your videos helpful when I’m considering getting a game. Your overview and thoughts about the slow build of the game reminded me a lot of Everdell. I found that game very slow and open ended in the first few rounds, and like there was no clear way to get all the things that I wanted/needed to play the cards I had. But then by the third round, I had built up enough of an engine that things suddenly started falling into place. But then the game way over lol! Never could really feel like I enjoyed the whole game. I absolutely love wingspan, and the dragon theme is right up my alley. But that similarity may be enough to keep me from just buying this game “because its wingspan + dragons!”. So I’m glad I watched your video! Definitely something worth keeping my eye on though!
I watched a gameplay video and it looks really nice. At first glance I was concerned about how tight the economy looked, but after watching the gameplay that does not seem to be the case. And unlike Wingspan, it really looks like you get to run your engine in the end game. I like Wingspan a lot, especially how the game is so simple, yet it leads to a really interesting engine-building experience. So I'm quite excited about this, it looks good.
i asked connie about the hatchlings issue - she responded at the 8:45 mark of the "Wyrmspan chat with designer Connie Vogelmann" video on boardgame gumbo youtube channel
The tricky elements Monique highlights have me quite excited to play, hopefully it still doesn’t feel punishing even with the resource scarcity but it does seem like it will offer a different flavor than Wingspan.
I agree. The intricate way it interconnects and allows for careful planning is definitely a plus if it works out. However, I am on the fence if it is still satisfying to play. Part of the charm of Wingspan (and many other engine building games) is the thrill of making something completely broken to create an insane score at the end of the game. Often it doesn't come together, but the promise of it sometimes happening (or nearly happening) is what makes it exciting for me.
Great comparison. Although Wyrnspan appears to have fixed some issues I had with Wingspan, it will still feel like we are all playing solitaire on our own board and tally points at the end. It looks like Wyrmspan added some passive interactions to address this, but I don’t think it is enough as after all, for better and for worse, it is a Wingspan-like game.
Thank you very much for this detailed and clear explanation and discussion about the game! Was very useful and enjoyable! I love Wingspan a lot. I really can't say if I am going to love Wyrmspan.
Thanks for the overview and thoughts. Seems like the luck factor with the card draw and the low player interaction remains the same between this and Wingspan. I got rid of my entire collection of Wingspan last year and doesn't look I will be picking this up despite liking the dragon theme more. I'm sure I will get to play it though since there's a few SM fanatics in my gaming group.
Assuming you are playing with players of similar skill level, the luck factor is a thing. In practice though, you can do a TON to minimize the effect of having a bad starting hand or not having access to the right birds. In my experience, you can still have a great game with suboptimal draws, while other people are having an easier time. You might not win, but it can still be enjoyable to build something decent with (what you are aware of is) a mediocre draw. From playing poker or magic the gathering, you will still win more over the long run if you are a better player, despite those games being a ton more luck-based than Wingspan. The difference is in perception, how you view the impact of chance on your game, instead of the things you *can* control. Could you give me an example of a game you enjoy that has this 'luck' element to a much lesser degree?
Thanks for the review. The game is just as pretty as the first in components and artwork. It looks like this has quite a bit more to think about and decision making that it would probably not get played with my family. I think I might wait to watch some played videos before making a decision. Wingspan though is quite easier for my non hobby board gamer family.
Thanks so much you two! Your channel really is the best!!! Any chance you’re going to do a play through? I also agree that they look different enough! I like that you are not going ti be collecting eggs the last few turns so you may have a chance of doing something cool!!!!
31:11 It's so funny that you say "lay eggs" when it's technically called "gain eggs." I do the same thing all the time and caught myself yesterday saying "I'm going to lay four eggs... that sounded weird... I should say, 'gain four eggs.'" and everybody had a laugh. It was funny to see I'm not the only one.
I love the bird theme so much I wish they just made Wingspan 2nd edition instead of this dragon stuff 😞 But I understand that the dragon theme might be more exciting to others and it justifies owning both games
I can both sympathize with this comment and disagree with it, as for me it is the other way around. I totally love Wingspan, especially with expansions and I have no need for a Wingspan 2 for the most part. However, the dragon theme is really a big draw for me. I am just scared that the game is too basic, or too tight, to not let you explore deep builds. As a boardgamearena player, I find it hard to enjoy the base Wingspan version now, without all the expansions, the variety of birds, goals and bonuscards is just too little for me to truly enjoy it.
While both games have a degree of randomness due to the cards I think Wyrmspan is less so. No random food! I also think I will personally like the fact it is tighter to manage early on as it makes me thin more. Glad to see egg spamming is gone! Just got my copy and I'm looking forward to trying it. Thanks guys, great as always!
At the beginning of the game you get an egg and then all of the rounds except for the 4th. You do get one more egg. I found that this was a very powerful resource. And then the end of round scoring and activations were very cool.
I will never understand why people insist on saying the theme isn't connected with Wingspan. The food cost of the birds is directly related to the food the actual birds eat in the wild. When a bird gives you extra bonus cards, it is because that bird is an endangered species. When you place a bird in a habitat, that is the type of environment you are most likely to see that bird. Birds that give you an egg when another player takes the lay eggs action are birds that are parasitic and place their own eggs in other birds' nests. These are just a few of the many examples in the game. Granted, this information is presented much better in the app, but maybe take the time to learn about the birds your are playing, by reading the bottoms of the cards, and you will start to see the commonalities pop up.
@@12345678abracadabraIts got a more tied in theme than most peoples thematic games. Yall just make shit up because its popular to hate on certain games and when you can't come up with a reason you just default to bullshit like "The theme doesn't work" when it factually and objectively does.
Exactly! I too see the theme being greatly connected with the mechanics in Wingspan. I don't see why Wingspan seems to get more criticism about not being thematic enough, when there are tons of popular games with less theme presented as there are more thematic then they actually are.
There could be a mechanism with dice in the game, for example, you could have to select between having any single resource of your choice, or rolling two dice to get two random resources. Of course this should come with a additional cost, like giving up a card ... It would be a way to introduce a Push Your Luck element into the game (As it had on the previous version), and if you're lucky to get the right resources, you would be abble to get the dragons played quickly.
Can you discard the cave card once you play a dragon onto it to help with the "messy board", or is there some aspect of the game that looks for cave cards in play?
I'd have to double check the actual deck, but I'm pretty sure if you feel like the cave cards make the board messy, mechanically you could just discard them. They have when-played abilities, and indicate that that section of cave is available for a dragon, but don't have ongoing effects. If I remember correctly, in playtesting there were some abilities that discarded a played dragon off the board for a benefit - not sure if they made the final game, but in that case, you'd just want to make sure to mark or remember that the now-empty space has already been excavated.
My biggest question about this game is whether or not I would like this game if I didn’t like Wingspan. I think you addressed most of the differences, but I'm still a little unsure. Fun is mostly subejctive, though, so I may need to try this out to know for sure. Thanks for the vid!
Feel free to take your time. There will be a lot of copies in circulation, so you'll have the chance to play, or check out more content in the future. Also Stonemaier has an anti-FOMO philosophy (they continually reprint their games, they don't have KS exclusives, etc.), so if, say, two years in the future you play it at a Con and decide you want a copy, you'll be able to buy one.
If you can give a sample of games that you actually do like, it might be a little easier to compare your tastes to what Wyrmspan is? I'm not sure either if I'd like Wyrmspan, but I do love Wingspan, so I'm not much of a help here :(
Great work as always. Super interesting this one, not sure exactly how I feel about it either. The freedom Wingspan provides you is a strong asset, although it of course has issues when it conflicts with the randomness and luck elements that temper that freedom. This one clearly restricts and requires clear planning as you said but perhaps to its own detriment, as it seems much more difficult to freely experiment with the cadence of your own idealized board state versus what the game permits you to do at any given moment. It feels as though the expectations looming over this could also cause opinions to be excessively polarizing - Wingspan remains such a massive commercial success and a critical one too even with its flaws. It would be a shame for this one to be preemptively dismissed or heralded without fully allowing for it to stand on its own merit.
Until they announced Wyrmspan (Poland is still waiting for their localized version here until later in 2024), I never knew I wanted a Wingspan game. Now I want Wingspan but with Monster Hunter creatures. Would. Be. Awesome.
The tower (or Birdfeeder, what it is actually called) looks great, especially just after unboxing. It is basically a simple dicetower though, you could us any one for the same effect or throw dice in a small container of some kind. After many years of play, assembling and disassembling, mine is close to completely falling apart. The issue of not having the right resources is a smaller issue, which gets better with expansions. I'm more let down by the poor lifespan of the (basically low quality cardboard) paper tower.
I fully understand Monique’s point to find the right cards and just depending on luck to leverage fast. That’s my biggest concern about Ark Nova if playing duo because the cards do not really change that much und the set collection is very special for lots of cards. The game itself is just to luck dependent for such a „heavy“ and long euro.
Ark Nova is both an incredibly tight game, as a game that is a bit 'draw dependant'. This mainly comes up for high level play though and the game has some very strong innate basic ways to counteract lack of good draws. Even moreso than Wingspan, Ark Nova has some serious high ceiling level play that will let you win over lesser players. In my opinion, nearly all heavy euros have some luck elements in it, unless you play something like Caylus that is extremely dry and just shoving cubes around in a particular manner :)
So my collection is still growing, I’ve only got 13 games at the moment (not including party type games). I’d like either Wingspan or Wyrmspan, would you say to maybe pick based on my preference of theme?
Very pleased with how different this is but also kind of the same. Beautiful theme. Excited to try! If you guys haven’t tried the expansions from wingspan I highly recommend. I play with the European birds as well as the oceana expansion. The new player board and nectar as well as some bird powers makes it much more interesting!
Agreed 100%, each expansion adds something that is needed or benefits the game positively. The base game is fine, but with expansions this game becomes deep and top notch.
I am just now getting back into board games. It has been over 20 years since I have seriously done any gaming. Having never played either Wingspan OR Wyrmspan, which would you recommend?
Monique I love your sweater! Also, always love your content and great seeing this game in detail versus Wingspan. I always eggspam when playing Wingspan so it's interesting that hack has been removed here for balance.
My main gripe with Wingspan were the balance issues with some actions on the player boards and the randomness of the food. This, and randomness of the card draw could make this very frustrating with no fault of your own. Then they reworked the player board in the Oceania expansion which was MUCH needed but introduced a wild ressource that didn't fix the dice problem and instead made managing the different ressources obsolete because now nectar was the ultimate ressource that was just plain better and more important than anything else. All of the gameplay changes in Wyrmspan sound like a definite improvement for me. Now I'll hold my enthusiasm back until I see it confirmed that this time they manage to balance the game properly but if they manage that, it will go straight into my collection.
I'm not entirely sure that if you never get Wingspan after all these years, this game is going to be much of an improvement. The main reason you pick this over Wingspan without playing it is because of the theme being more appealing. If that is the case, I can understand the choice. I'm not saying the game isn't worth it, or that they are too similar, as clearly this video explains they are not. I just have a hard time grasping what makes this unproven game so much better than a clear proven favorite of many boardgamers.
@@pinobluevogel6458 mostly the theme, and that wingspan is kind hard to find In my country. One of the publishers have just announced this, só I'll try to get it while there still fresh in the market.
The dragon facts booklet literally makes no difference to me. I don’t need or want it and would rather the game just be cheaper. I honestly think most people would feel this way.
hi m & n - am i missing something - why are excavation cards allowed to be played into caves of different colors? ex: red excavation card into yellow cave
I am still unsure of how much you guys enjoyed this game? Does it earn a spot in your collection? Is it too similar to Wingspan to have both in your collection? Things like that.
@@Wylie288 I form my own opinions, they were not that thrilled with Expeditions and I ended up getting it partly because of the reasons they gave for not being thrilled by it. I think discussing the fun factor of a game is kinda crucial. If I just consider the look of the game I would buy it in a flash, but if these two say it’s boring as hell, I can research some more. Thanks for caring.
The idea how reviewers (and mainly youtube reviewers) work is that you get to know the people that make these videos, get to know their tastes and preferences, what they are enthousiastic about and what not. Then you compare and contrast this what how you yourself like those games, to see where you interject and overlap or where you go across or completely outside of your interests. Reviewing games is an art, but it is also an extremely useful tool for us viewers to learn if you would like something. I've gotten many great tips for movies, videogames, boardgames and other media from reviewers. For example: I know both Naveen and Monique like 'A Feast for Odin' a lot, which is also a game I enjoy a ton myself. You still have to like the game or the premise of the game to begin with, but having a lot of overlapping games means you can trust their opinion to be a good baseline.
I played once so far and was able to get my hatchling out fast as my first dragon and was also able to cache more than 3 milk on it. At the end of the game all my caves were full of dragons, except for 1.
It’s weird, in our plays leading up to this video, the hatchlings we drew were so milk expensive that we couldn’t justify the grind to get them in play.
@@BeforeYouPlay I played again last night, not as easy this time. I believe I had a cave card that gave me two milks my first time which made it easy to put my hatchling out.
I love Wingspan, but I hate the fact the final round is just everyone taking eggs for 5 turns. This sounds like a wonderful change IMO. Thanks for the review!!!
Have you played any of the Wingspan expansions? I felt the same about the final round with the original, but then I picked up the Oceania Expansion and it changed the final round in many of the games I played.
The main place where people take 5 egg laying turns is online play on Boardgamearena, where you play only the base game, with only the base birds. This is because people are optimizing the game with cheap birds that do a lot for their cost, instead of using many of the engines that are possible in the expansions, where the game becomes infinitely better and a little more balanced.
@@steveskew1097 Some people still do use the egg laying spam, but those players do not often win if you have all the expansions. If making 4-5 points a turn in the final round is the best you can do, you are not winning many games of Wingspan. Also, you need the space to place all the eggs, or it will still be impossible to do so.
My one struggle, and I'm not sure we played this correctly,l. Does one person takes all of their actions then it moves onto the next person, or is it take an action, then it's the next person's turn?
Seems a lot like everdell farshore to me, where it addresses some of the flaws in the original base game and provides a solid standalone experience, but isn't something I'd be interested in over the original game with the expansions.
Wyrmspan is a little more differentiated than farshore, but farshore's definitely not just a reskin. Farshore changed up the worker placement places a lot, and added two new systems. (the boat and maps) The two really new things that wyrmspan does is the dragon guild and the exacavation action. The other 4 actions are the same: activate one of three rows or play a card. And then they did a bit of a mix up on the rewards for the actions and the action cubes/coins.
Thank you so much for reviewing this! My son “hacked” Wingspan and wins by doing crazy amounts of tucking actions, similar to how some people would do the egg. Does this help get rid of that kind of hacking as well?
I'd offer that Connie's design style is slanted toward combos and sequencing, so there's still an engine-building aspect in Wyrmspan, but it's probably less of the focus. The costs to activate a row increase within a round, and can't be activated more than three times in any round, so players are as likely to repeat any single action as repeatedly. That would be a pro or con depending on player preferences - some players want more of a pure engine builder, so could prefer Wingspan for that reason.
I’m not sold on this yet. I don’t like the removal of the personal bonus cards from Wingspan, as that is one of my favorites parts of that game. It also appears the dragons aren’t worth points themselves like the feathers in wingspan? That’s a bigger change than it seems as the feathers often balanced the power and cost of the cards
I had similar thoughts about the personal goals, the bonus cards give life to an otherwise directionless game. Not only does it make the game more challenging for very advanced players, it gives some guidelines on what birds to collect and how to play for intermediate players. This game seems to replace this 'advanced' mechanic with the Guild wheel, which seems fun, but much harder to grasp for newer players.
Thanks for the explanation. I saw and think the same as Monique, the part "I don´t like" is that you have to build add cave and then add a dragon to be able to "hide" stop signs as well as you must add a cave so then you can add a dragon (I think that´s how it is). Very limited because there are not a lot of actions, game forces you to follow certain path if you want "full power". Would be easier if you can excavate and add a dragon right away paying costs. Looks pretty tight when it comes to pay for everything. I like games when do you feel frustrated by what you want to do because everything is expensive, this one seems to have expensive actions. Need to play it though, so I can confirm, I hope I´m wrong LOL. Will buy it because I love the theme hahah.
FWIW, the caves cost an action/coin, but don't have an additional cost the way dragon (or bird) cards do. They actually have instant abilities that are typically giving you resources. So it's about trying to find the right combos, or tactically reacting to leverage the benefits provided. That might not be obvious just from the rules description, so I can see how that might feel, at first glance, like it's a slog to get anything done.
It looks cool, but i have everything wingspan. I don't want to start again, if that makes sense. I'll skip. Maybe i would have got it if you could mix it with wingspan. Thabks for the video!
It's designed/intended to be slightly heavier than Wingspan, and I would guess most people would categorize it as such. "Heavy" means different things to different people, though (e.g. rules burden vs complex strategic decisions), so there could be people that find the Wyrmspan systems more intuitive for them. Without knowing the specifics, I would generally recommend that people who have played Wingspan could handle the step up in complexity to Wyrmspan, if interested, but that players who have not played many games at all would be more able to play Wingspan first.
@@HexStarDragon thanks. Makes it a much higher bar to buy since it just has to compete purely on gameplay with all the great games out there. I typically play wingspan with people who wouldn't be up for anything more (wingspan is a stretch). Still I love the theme so maybe I'll give it a chance.
For 2p only, would you rather play this than Asia? We play mostly at 2p. It's quite clear this would be better for 3p+ than Wingspan, but I'm curious as to your thoughts on 2p only!
The only thing I don’t like about wingspan is that every round gets shorter. It sort of feels like listening to a song and cutting it off midway through. I would rather have less actions from the start, but the same in each round (or even increasing actions each round) so I think I like the sound of Wyrmspan’s changes on this.
spamming the egg row is the surest path to victory in Wingspan! This one certainly appears much tighter, and the strategy more challenging. But you're definitely on to something in regards to theme--my wife and son love birds but not dragons, so I couldn't see picking this up.
Others who have received a copy for review have stated whether they liked the game or not. One couple even giving a rating out of 10. Monique & Naveen didn't seem very excited about it. They didn't answer my questions either so I assume they didn't like it.
i remember watching a video in which you guys talked about „making other players wait at the gaming table“… it was not the main topic appernetly, hence i couldn‘t find it anymore 😕
I actually don’t feel like going for this one…I felt the cave cards were fiddly. Wingspan itself is already quite a hard game to sell to non gamers friends. And I feel wyrspram is going to be worse. And the best thing about wingspan is its simplicity and how perfectly they time the game end. I don’t feel adding complexity makes the game better. I don’t feel spamming egg was a bothering issue because all players could do the same.
"Eggs are harder to get" my foot The last time my friends and I played Wyrmspan together we had to use the x2 and x5 tokens because we were all getting so many eggs that *the supply ran out*
Well great on job on securing your eggs! Our point was that there is no dedicated action space that is literally just "lay eggs" like there is in Wingspan.
I disagree about the egg row in wingspan. It’s only worth it to max out your egg row if you have already played a bunch of other birds elsewhere that you can lay eggs on because the egg row cards themselves fill up very quickly (one or two taps). Perhaps for the last few turns of the game someone might repeatedly tap the egg row, but the entire rest of the game they would have had to have played cards to make that worth their while or the eggs will just be wasted.
Agreed. Though I have to say with online play that has only the base game, there are a lot of 'optimized' strategies that focus on cheap birds that are generating easy points and resources and filling it up with high point value birds and a full grassland to generate many points in the last few turns. The base game is a little unbalanced. With the addition of way more birds, (mainly engine cards) and more diversity of end of round goals and bonus cards this is much improved.
"All the dragons are looking cute." ....I think that's the very last a dragon wants to hear! ;-) In fact that leads to the biggest issue and disappointment about the game. It should have been dark and while the dragon could have been more bright like a real golden dragon, fire dragon, green poison dragon, blue lightning dragon, white light dragon. They made the opposite to make the game appeal to the same target group as Wingspan. How would Scythe look like if it had been released AFTER Wingspan?
we have both and I found the bird cards interesting. With wyrmspan i was looking past the dragons and their names because they are made up and i just didn't care. I did really like some of the mechanics for wyrmspan. I actually found wingspan more difficult because you had to rely on the dice where wyrmspan seemed less about luck.
I don’t see how there can be facts about fictional things like dragons. It’s not like Lord of the Ring lore where its all contained into one universe. Dragons are general fiction.
The facts would be worldbuilding for this game’s world, not dragons in general. I’m really excited for the dragon facts book, great way to make the biodiversity of dragons feel real.
They could include facts on cultural views of dragons. For example, dragons are derived from the ancient concept of massive serpents. Dragons represented the devil in Christian folklore during the High Middle Ages. Stuff like that.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks, again, for taking the time to play through Wyrmspan, and share the tutorial and your thoughts on the game!
😃 Thank you for all the support!!
Love your board game tutorials!!! Best in class
Thank you so much!
I like Naveen's input on teaches:
"Sure."
🤣
Thanks for the overview!
Yup... uh huh
YOU TWO ARE MY FAVORITE to watch regarding board games! I love how you explain everything step-by-step, excellent camera work, and I love the great connection you both have together!!
Much, much, love from Rhode Island
Im even more excited for this game now. As always thanks for a great video!
Wingspan's Oceania expansion added two critical features not in the base game: 1. A wild token (nectar) and 2. A rejigged player mat which allows players to trade food to reroll the feeder or refresh faceup cards. These changes make a huge difference to some of the issues you mention with the birdfeeder.
At first I felt they overcorrected the eggs by buffing food too much via nectar's flexibility, but after playing Oceania on the digital game, I'm seeing this is not the case. You no longer get nearly as many eggs as you did before, and nectar, like most foods are 1 out of 6 chances of being rolled, and are wasted if hoarded.
I still think they overdid the nectar with the extra bonus points you receive when you use the resource. The nectar hoarding is very easy to play around it imo. @@aos-archive
@@aos-archive Nectar/Wheat and Nectar/Cherry both appear on the dice, so its 1 out of 3 that nectar is rolled. But you're right that the effect on lessening egg spam it brings is very welcome.
I think these remarks are really important if you consider Wingspan, as the expansions really change the game. As I play the game on Boardgamearena quite a bit, I really miss all the great expansions that evolve Wingspan from a good game into a stellar game. I really think the difference is stark, for me going from an 7,5 to a 9. (out of 10)
Not to mention that the expansions add:
- Way more end of round goals and bonus cards, some of them completely affecting how and when you play out cards.
- Blue birds that have a recurring effect at the end of the round, this allows for way more engine building and planning than the base game.
- Yellow birds that have an end of game effect. Though not as impactful or build-around as the blue birds, they are definitely fun to play around with.
- The Asia expansion adds a more intricate 2-player mode, but most of all a host of interesting, diverse and great looking birds. Some of the birds are wild, as they went overboard with a bunch of them.
Overall, I love the Wingspan game with all the expansions a lot, the sheer amount of variety you get will all expansions is staggering. (almost to the point of it being a little too much)
The only downside to the game - and this is mainly for the Asia expansion - is that the rules text on some of the cards is infinitely small and unreadable for people that need reading glasses and refuse to get one. The base game and first 2 expansions are fine, but for Asia, Stonemaier games whipped out the tinyfont to screw all the old people. A bit of an oversight.
i preferred the birdfeeder with no OE
Excellent overview! This was so helpful.
When I was at Dice Tower West last week, I took a photo of folks playing this and texted it to my daughter (huge dragon fan and also likes Wingspan) and she told me in all caps - to "GET THAT GAME NEXT!" :P So, just as Meepleville was shutting down their booth at the Con at 2:30 PM on Sunday, I ran over there in the middle of our On Mars game to pick up one of the last 4-5 copies of the 250 copies they started with at the Con. I brought it home and my daughter, home from spring break, was super thrilled by the art, theme, and the game itself. Plan to get it to the table tomorrow! Great video as always guys, and it was so awesome seeing both of you at DTW and getting to play Dune Imperium and having some awesome tacos! (And also shooting some dice w/Naveen and Chuck and coming away winners was an extra bonus!)
I have played my preview copy a few times and I actually think the hatchlings are very good value. With one of mine I cached 5 milks which earned 5 dragon guild steps and 2 resources for it.
It is really nice to use cave cards or the final crimson exploration reward to hatchings for added caching benefits!
I found similar in my games
Great run through. Thanks. Excited for this one. It’s certainly an interesting development of the Wingspan mechanisms. I love the changes and am excited to explore all the cards.
Will there be a playthrough video? Among all the content creators I follow, which are a lot, I think you two make the best playthroughs! Please do one!
I second that!
Thanks for your review and introduction video about this game. I wasn't sure I was going to get it, I am still on the fence, but not for lack of you both explaining and showing off the game well.
This is not my first 'before you play' video, but with a couple of really good ones that I've watched before this, I am convinced I want to see more. Definitely a channel worth subscribing and supporting!
Thanks guys !! So glad you did a video about this game, I really look forward to playing it !! Big fans of Wingspan here, we have about a hundred plays of it, so it will be really nice to have something similar yet different enough :) Can't wait :D
Take care and thanks for your awesome content !!!
Thanks for the review guys you rock.
I LOVE the mechanics in Wyrmspan so much more than Wingspan. It feels way smoother and resource gathering is much less of a chore. Despite the smaller number of resources being taken per turn, not having to rely on a dice tower for your resources feel MUCH better. Also, the coins are MUCH better than the dwindling action cubes you get at Wingspan.
I’d rather have Wingspan’s theme though. Learning and seeing art about birds that actually exist is way more fun and stimulating to me. I have no investment to fictional dragons that only exist in a Wyrmspan universe.
My partner and I just played this last night. We are big Wingspanners, and we really enjoyed the game!!
I’ve seen a few people mention the board gets messier because of the cave cards being under the dragons. Is there any reason you can’t just discard the cave card (or otherwise set it aside) before putting a dragon on it? From what I can tell once there’s a dragon in its spot the cave serves no purpose, right?
Probably just to make sure people have actually excavated it...
I’m trying to remember if there are some dragon cards that allow you to re-trigger the cave card effects. Also we didn’t run into cards that allowed us to move a dragon in our plays, but if so then it may be necessary to keep track of areas that have been excavated.
I think the cave card actually acts as a small platform which should make it easier to pick up and tuck the dragon cards, for some people.
@@Stormlight8700 That makes sense, this is not a huge issue but it comes up in Wingspan for physically ungifted people.
I played the game once and we had a Public objective that made the players count how many Cave Cards they had on their mat.
Good stuff! I appreciate the honest criticisms, feels like I only hear people hyping this game up all the time.
Thanks for checking out the video!!
Just played today and I really enjoyed! I think it's cleaner than Wingspan, less luck/spamming but both solid games
Just heard about this game and was glad to see you guys did an overview for it! I always find your videos helpful when I’m considering getting a game.
Your overview and thoughts about the slow build of the game reminded me a lot of Everdell. I found that game very slow and open ended in the first few rounds, and like there was no clear way to get all the things that I wanted/needed to play the cards I had. But then by the third round, I had built up enough of an engine that things suddenly started falling into place. But then the game way over lol! Never could really feel like I enjoyed the whole game.
I absolutely love wingspan, and the dragon theme is right up my alley. But that similarity may be enough to keep me from just buying this game “because its wingspan + dragons!”. So I’m glad I watched your video! Definitely something worth keeping my eye on though!
I watched a gameplay video and it looks really nice. At first glance I was concerned about how tight the economy looked, but after watching the gameplay that does not seem to be the case. And unlike Wingspan, it really looks like you get to run your engine in the end game. I like Wingspan a lot, especially how the game is so simple, yet it leads to a really interesting engine-building experience. So I'm quite excited about this, it looks good.
i asked connie about the hatchlings issue - she responded at the 8:45 mark of the "Wyrmspan chat with designer Connie Vogelmann" video on boardgame gumbo youtube channel
The tricky elements Monique highlights have me quite excited to play, hopefully it still doesn’t feel punishing even with the resource scarcity but it does seem like it will offer a different flavor than Wingspan.
I agree. The intricate way it interconnects and allows for careful planning is definitely a plus if it works out. However, I am on the fence if it is still satisfying to play.
Part of the charm of Wingspan (and many other engine building games) is the thrill of making something completely broken to create an insane score at the end of the game. Often it doesn't come together, but the promise of it sometimes happening (or nearly happening) is what makes it exciting for me.
Great comparison. Although Wyrnspan appears to have fixed some issues I had with Wingspan, it will still feel like we are all playing solitaire on our own board and tally points at the end. It looks like Wyrmspan added some passive interactions to address this, but I don’t think it is enough as after all, for better and for worse, it is a Wingspan-like game.
Thank you very much for this detailed and clear explanation and discussion about the game! Was very useful and enjoyable!
I love Wingspan a lot. I really can't say if I am going to love Wyrmspan.
Thanks so much for your thoughts lovely people! Cis
Thanks Cis!!!
Thanks for the overview and thoughts. Seems like the luck factor with the card draw and the low player interaction remains the same between this and Wingspan. I got rid of my entire collection of Wingspan last year and doesn't look I will be picking this up despite liking the dragon theme more. I'm sure I will get to play it though since there's a few SM fanatics in my gaming group.
Assuming you are playing with players of similar skill level, the luck factor is a thing. In practice though, you can do a TON to minimize the effect of having a bad starting hand or not having access to the right birds. In my experience, you can still have a great game with suboptimal draws, while other people are having an easier time. You might not win, but it can still be enjoyable to build something decent with (what you are aware of is) a mediocre draw.
From playing poker or magic the gathering, you will still win more over the long run if you are a better player, despite those games being a ton more luck-based than Wingspan. The difference is in perception, how you view the impact of chance on your game, instead of the things you *can* control.
Could you give me an example of a game you enjoy that has this 'luck' element to a much lesser degree?
Oh so excited for this. Wingspan is my wife's and my favorite game. So glad you get to review this, and I cannot wait to get my sticky fingers on it!
Please do a playthrough ❤❤
I too would love to see it
When will you be posting a playthrough? Also love all your content!! You guys are amazing!
+1 a playthrough would be nice
I too would love see your playthrough of this
Your play through allow me to see if you’re truly enjoying it.
Thanks for the review. The game is just as pretty as the first in components and artwork. It looks like this has quite a bit more to think about and decision making that it would probably not get played with my family. I think I might wait to watch some played videos before making a decision. Wingspan though is quite easier for my non hobby board gamer family.
The advantage of Wingspan is that just about everyone loves animals and most people like birds, so it is not hard to convince people to try it.
Thanks so much you two! Your channel really is the best!!! Any chance you’re going to do a play through? I also agree that they look different enough! I like that you are not going ti be collecting eggs the last few turns so you may have a chance of doing something cool!!!!
Just waiting for the release. Buying a copy as soon as it goes up.
Would be nice for the boards to be two layer to allow the cave to recess when placed. May need an overlay.
That would be nice. Some of the satisfying tactile things really can add to a game's enjoyment.
31:11 It's so funny that you say "lay eggs" when it's technically called "gain eggs." I do the same thing all the time and caught myself yesterday saying "I'm going to lay four eggs... that sounded weird... I should say, 'gain four eggs.'" and everybody had a laugh. It was funny to see I'm not the only one.
I love the bird theme so much I wish they just made Wingspan 2nd edition instead of this dragon stuff 😞 But I understand that the dragon theme might be more exciting to others and it justifies owning both games
I can both sympathize with this comment and disagree with it, as for me it is the other way around. I totally love Wingspan, especially with expansions and I have no need for a Wingspan 2 for the most part.
However, the dragon theme is really a big draw for me. I am just scared that the game is too basic, or too tight, to not let you explore deep builds.
As a boardgamearena player, I find it hard to enjoy the base Wingspan version now, without all the expansions, the variety of birds, goals and bonuscards is just too little for me to truly enjoy it.
While both games have a degree of randomness due to the cards I think Wyrmspan is less so. No random food! I also think I will personally like the fact it is tighter to manage early on as it makes me thin more. Glad to see egg spamming is gone! Just got my copy and I'm looking forward to trying it. Thanks guys, great as always!
At the beginning of the game you get an egg and then all of the rounds except for the 4th. You do get one more egg. I found that this was a very powerful resource. And then the end of round scoring and activations were very cool.
I will never understand why people insist on saying the theme isn't connected with Wingspan. The food cost of the birds is directly related to the food the actual birds eat in the wild. When a bird gives you extra bonus cards, it is because that bird is an endangered species. When you place a bird in a habitat, that is the type of environment you are most likely to see that bird. Birds that give you an egg when another player takes the lay eggs action are birds that are parasitic and place their own eggs in other birds' nests. These are just a few of the many examples in the game.
Granted, this information is presented much better in the app, but maybe take the time to learn about the birds your are playing, by reading the bottoms of the cards, and you will start to see the commonalities pop up.
That's so abstract and barely relates to the theme.
@@12345678abracadabraIts got a more tied in theme than most peoples thematic games. Yall just make shit up because its popular to hate on certain games and when you can't come up with a reason you just default to bullshit like "The theme doesn't work" when it factually and objectively does.
Exactly! I too see the theme being greatly connected with the mechanics in Wingspan.
I don't see why Wingspan seems to get more criticism about not being thematic enough, when there are tons of popular games with less theme presented as there are more thematic then they actually are.
I've finally pulled out Wingspan after buying it 4 years ago and planning on playing it the first time this week
Haha it's never too late!!
There could be a mechanism with dice in the game, for example, you could have to select between having any single resource of your choice, or rolling two dice to get two random resources. Of course this should come with a additional cost, like giving up a card ... It would be a way to introduce a Push Your Luck element into the game (As it had on the previous version), and if you're lucky to get the right resources, you would be abble to get the dragons played quickly.
This is a great explanation video. I appreciate it. I was planning on getting this game and now I'm really excited.
Can you discard the cave card once you play a dragon onto it to help with the "messy board", or is there some aspect of the game that looks for cave cards in play?
I'd have to double check the actual deck, but I'm pretty sure if you feel like the cave cards make the board messy, mechanically you could just discard them. They have when-played abilities, and indicate that that section of cave is available for a dragon, but don't have ongoing effects. If I remember correctly, in playtesting there were some abilities that discarded a played dragon off the board for a benefit - not sure if they made the final game, but in that case, you'd just want to make sure to mark or remember that the now-empty space has already been excavated.
My biggest question about this game is whether or not I would like this game if I didn’t like Wingspan. I think you addressed most of the differences, but I'm still a little unsure.
Fun is mostly subejctive, though, so I may need to try this out to know for sure. Thanks for the vid!
Feel free to take your time. There will be a lot of copies in circulation, so you'll have the chance to play, or check out more content in the future. Also Stonemaier has an anti-FOMO philosophy (they continually reprint their games, they don't have KS exclusives, etc.), so if, say, two years in the future you play it at a Con and decide you want a copy, you'll be able to buy one.
If you can give a sample of games that you actually do like, it might be a little easier to compare your tastes to what Wyrmspan is?
I'm not sure either if I'd like Wyrmspan, but I do love Wingspan, so I'm not much of a help here :(
@@HexStarDragon This is great advice, just trying the game out sometime won't be hard and it will be reprinted a lot.
Great work as always. Super interesting this one, not sure exactly how I feel about it either. The freedom Wingspan provides you is a strong asset, although it of course has issues when it conflicts with the randomness and luck elements that temper that freedom. This one clearly restricts and requires clear planning as you said but perhaps to its own detriment, as it seems much more difficult to freely experiment with the cadence of your own idealized board state versus what the game permits you to do at any given moment. It feels as though the expectations looming over this could also cause opinions to be excessively polarizing - Wingspan remains such a massive commercial success and a critical one too even with its flaws. It would be a shame for this one to be preemptively dismissed or heralded without fully allowing for it to stand on its own merit.
Until they announced Wyrmspan (Poland is still waiting for their localized version here until later in 2024), I never knew I wanted a Wingspan game.
Now I want Wingspan but with Monster Hunter creatures. Would. Be. Awesome.
Thanks for the info I hope to play this one. GLAD the tower is gone!
Let us know how it compares when you try it!
The tower (or Birdfeeder, what it is actually called) looks great, especially just after unboxing. It is basically a simple dicetower though, you could us any one for the same effect or throw dice in a small container of some kind. After many years of play, assembling and disassembling, mine is close to completely falling apart. The issue of not having the right resources is a smaller issue, which gets better with expansions. I'm more let down by the poor lifespan of the (basically low quality cardboard) paper tower.
I fully understand Monique’s point to find the right cards and just depending on luck to leverage fast. That’s my biggest concern about Ark Nova if playing duo because the cards do not really change that much und the set collection is very special for lots of cards. The game itself is just to luck dependent for such a „heavy“ and long euro.
Ark Nova is both an incredibly tight game, as a game that is a bit 'draw dependant'. This mainly comes up for high level play though and the game has some very strong innate basic ways to counteract lack of good draws. Even moreso than Wingspan, Ark Nova has some serious high ceiling level play that will let you win over lesser players.
In my opinion, nearly all heavy euros have some luck elements in it, unless you play something like Caylus that is extremely dry and just shoving cubes around in a particular manner :)
I am so excited for this game! Can't wait.
So my collection is still growing, I’ve only got 13 games at the moment (not including party type games). I’d like either Wingspan or Wyrmspan, would you say to maybe pick based on my preference of theme?
Very pleased with how different this is but also kind of the same. Beautiful theme. Excited to try!
If you guys haven’t tried the expansions from wingspan I highly recommend. I play with the European birds as well as the oceana expansion. The new player board and nectar as well as some bird powers makes it much more interesting!
Agreed 100%, each expansion adds something that is needed or benefits the game positively. The base game is fine, but with expansions this game becomes deep and top notch.
I am just now getting back into board games. It has been over 20 years since I have seriously done any gaming. Having never played either Wingspan OR Wyrmspan, which would you recommend?
Monique I love your sweater!
Also, always love your content and great seeing this game in detail versus Wingspan. I always eggspam when playing Wingspan so it's interesting that hack has been removed here for balance.
Really looking forward to seeing this in person - lovely video. What I really want to know is where I can find Monique's sweater?
Thanks for checking out the video! Monique bought the sweater at an anime convention in LA!
Dziekuję, za ten film, i już wiem jaką grę kupię jak ukaże się w języku polskim.
My main gripe with Wingspan were the balance issues with some actions on the player boards and the randomness of the food. This, and randomness of the card draw could make this very frustrating with no fault of your own. Then they reworked the player board in the Oceania expansion which was MUCH needed but introduced a wild ressource that didn't fix the dice problem and instead made managing the different ressources obsolete because now nectar was the ultimate ressource that was just plain better and more important than anything else.
All of the gameplay changes in Wyrmspan sound like a definite improvement for me. Now I'll hold my enthusiasm back until I see it confirmed that this time they manage to balance the game properly but if they manage that, it will go straight into my collection.
Great video!!
Dont have wingspan in our collection yet.
Will definitely get this one.
I'm not entirely sure that if you never get Wingspan after all these years, this game is going to be much of an improvement. The main reason you pick this over Wingspan without playing it is because of the theme being more appealing. If that is the case, I can understand the choice.
I'm not saying the game isn't worth it, or that they are too similar, as clearly this video explains they are not. I just have a hard time grasping what makes this unproven game so much better than a clear proven favorite of many boardgamers.
@@pinobluevogel6458 mostly the theme, and that wingspan is kind hard to find In my country.
One of the publishers have just announced this, só I'll try to get it while there still fresh in the market.
Ordered mine yesterday
The dragon facts booklet literally makes no difference to me. I don’t need or want it and would rather the game just be cheaper. I honestly think most people would feel this way.
you are the only person I have seen feel this way
thanks for the vid
You're welcome!
hi m & n - am i missing something - why are excavation cards allowed to be played into caves of different colors? ex: red excavation card into yellow cave
I am still unsure of how much you guys enjoyed this game? Does it earn a spot in your collection? Is it too similar to Wingspan to have both in your collection? Things like that.
I had the same question: Was it fun?
Thats not relevant. Form your own opinion. Reviewers shouldn't be making decisions for you.
@@Wylie288 well the video title also says “our thoughts” and I was hoping for more of their thoughts on the game. Isn’t that relevant?
@@Wylie288 I form my own opinions, they were not that thrilled with Expeditions and I ended up getting it partly because of the reasons they gave for not being thrilled by it. I think discussing the fun factor of a game is kinda crucial. If I just consider the look of the game I would buy it in a flash, but if these two say it’s boring as hell, I can research some more. Thanks for caring.
The idea how reviewers (and mainly youtube reviewers) work is that you get to know the people that make these videos, get to know their tastes and preferences, what they are enthousiastic about and what not. Then you compare and contrast this what how you yourself like those games, to see where you interject and overlap or where you go across or completely outside of your interests.
Reviewing games is an art, but it is also an extremely useful tool for us viewers to learn if you would like something. I've gotten many great tips for movies, videogames, boardgames and other media from reviewers.
For example: I know both Naveen and Monique like 'A Feast for Odin' a lot, which is also a game I enjoy a ton myself. You still have to like the game or the premise of the game to begin with, but having a lot of overlapping games means you can trust their opinion to be a good baseline.
I legit thought Wyrmspan was a joke last time I heard it on the Dice Tower. 😂
Hahahaha
I played once so far and was able to get my hatchling out fast as my first dragon and was also able to cache more than 3 milk on it. At the end of the game all my caves were full of dragons, except for 1.
It’s weird, in our plays leading up to this video, the hatchlings we drew were so milk expensive that we couldn’t justify the grind to get them in play.
@@BeforeYouPlay I played again last night, not as easy this time. I believe I had a cave card that gave me two milks my first time which made it easy to put my hatchling out.
Looks interesting. Not sure If I will get it though.
Thanks for checking out the video!
I love Wingspan, but I hate the fact the final round is just everyone taking eggs for 5 turns. This sounds like a wonderful change IMO. Thanks for the review!!!
Have you played any of the Wingspan expansions?
I felt the same about the final round with the original, but then I picked up the Oceania Expansion and it changed the final round in many of the games I played.
I do have all except the Asia expansion and it helps to some extent, but there's still a lot of games that just turn into 5 turns of 4 person egg spam
The main place where people take 5 egg laying turns is online play on Boardgamearena, where you play only the base game, with only the base birds. This is because people are optimizing the game with cheap birds that do a lot for their cost, instead of using many of the engines that are possible in the expansions, where the game becomes infinitely better and a little more balanced.
@@steveskew1097 Some people still do use the egg laying spam, but those players do not often win if you have all the expansions. If making 4-5 points a turn in the final round is the best you can do, you are not winning many games of Wingspan. Also, you need the space to place all the eggs, or it will still be impossible to do so.
I personally like the artwork on wingspan and its expansions much better.
That's fair! Hope you can try this one out at some point! 😀
My one struggle, and I'm not sure we played this correctly,l. Does one person takes all of their actions then it moves onto the next person, or is it take an action, then it's the next person's turn?
Seems a lot like everdell farshore to me, where it addresses some of the flaws in the original base game and provides a solid standalone experience, but isn't something I'd be interested in over the original game with the expansions.
Isn't far shore just a reskin? This game is fundamentally different. The action set isn't even comparable.
Wyrmspan is a little more differentiated than farshore, but farshore's definitely not just a reskin.
Farshore changed up the worker placement places a lot, and added two new systems. (the boat and maps)
The two really new things that wyrmspan does is the dragon guild and the exacavation action. The other 4 actions are the same: activate one of three rows or play a card. And then they did a bit of a mix up on the rewards for the actions and the action cubes/coins.
Thank you so much for reviewing this! My son “hacked” Wingspan and wins by doing crazy amounts of tucking actions, similar to how some people would do the egg. Does this help get rid of that kind of hacking as well?
I'd offer that Connie's design style is slanted toward combos and sequencing, so there's still an engine-building aspect in Wyrmspan, but it's probably less of the focus. The costs to activate a row increase within a round, and can't be activated more than three times in any round, so players are as likely to repeat any single action as repeatedly. That would be a pro or con depending on player preferences - some players want more of a pure engine builder, so could prefer Wingspan for that reason.
I’m not sold on this yet. I don’t like the removal of the personal bonus cards from Wingspan, as that is one of my favorites parts of that game.
It also appears the dragons aren’t worth points themselves like the feathers in wingspan? That’s a bigger change than it seems as the feathers often balanced the power and cost of the cards
The points for dragons are listed in the top-right of the card. It's a different symbol, because feathers are less thematic to dragons.
@@HexStarDragon thanks! I hadn’t seen that
I had similar thoughts about the personal goals, the bonus cards give life to an otherwise directionless game. Not only does it make the game more challenging for very advanced players, it gives some guidelines on what birds to collect and how to play for intermediate players.
This game seems to replace this 'advanced' mechanic with the Guild wheel, which seems fun, but much harder to grasp for newer players.
Thanks for the explanation. I saw and think the same as Monique, the part "I don´t like" is that you have to build add cave and then add a dragon to be able to "hide" stop signs as well as you must add a cave so then you can add a dragon (I think that´s how it is). Very limited because there are not a lot of actions, game forces you to follow certain path if you want "full power". Would be easier if you can excavate and add a dragon right away paying costs. Looks pretty tight when it comes to pay for everything. I like games when do you feel frustrated by what you want to do because everything is expensive, this one seems to have expensive actions. Need to play it though, so I can confirm, I hope I´m wrong LOL. Will buy it because I love the theme hahah.
FWIW, the caves cost an action/coin, but don't have an additional cost the way dragon (or bird) cards do. They actually have instant abilities that are typically giving you resources. So it's about trying to find the right combos, or tactically reacting to leverage the benefits provided. That might not be obvious just from the rules description, so I can see how that might feel, at first glance, like it's a slog to get anything done.
Nice video, approximately how many dragons are people ending the game with?
I think in our last play I (Naveen) had 8 in play and Monique ended the game with 9. Our scores were within 2 also.
II's there be a playthrought ?
It looks cool, but i have everything wingspan. I don't want to start again, if that makes sense. I'll skip. Maybe i would have got it if you could mix it with wingspan. Thabks for the video!
Is it a heavier/harder have than wingspan? It sounds like it is, which is not great since I mostly play Wingspan with people who are not big gamers.
It's designed/intended to be slightly heavier than Wingspan, and I would guess most people would categorize it as such. "Heavy" means different things to different people, though (e.g. rules burden vs complex strategic decisions), so there could be people that find the Wyrmspan systems more intuitive for them.
Without knowing the specifics, I would generally recommend that people who have played Wingspan could handle the step up in complexity to Wyrmspan, if interested, but that players who have not played many games at all would be more able to play Wingspan first.
@@HexStarDragon thanks. Makes it a much higher bar to buy since it just has to compete purely on gameplay with all the great games out there. I typically play wingspan with people who wouldn't be up for anything more (wingspan is a stretch). Still I love the theme so maybe I'll give it a chance.
@@PeteQuad I think it would be farily easy for people already used to wingspan
I watched four reviews/overviews of Wyrmspan so far, you are the ONLY ones who mentioned that it was a review copy provided by Stonemaier. Kudos.
Is there a Trogdor the Burninator dragon?
For 2p only, would you rather play this than Asia?
We play mostly at 2p. It's quite clear this would be better for 3p+ than Wingspan, but I'm curious as to your thoughts on 2p only!
The only thing I don’t like about wingspan is that every round gets shorter. It sort of feels like listening to a song and cutting it off midway through. I would rather have less actions from the start, but the same in each round (or even increasing actions each round) so I think I like the sound of Wyrmspan’s changes on this.
thanks!
spamming the egg row is the surest path to victory in Wingspan! This one certainly appears much tighter, and the strategy more challenging. But you're definitely on to something in regards to theme--my wife and son love birds but not dragons, so I couldn't see picking this up.
Did you like the game? Would you keep it in your collection? Is it fun to play?
its a paid review, that's not going to be here
They can say if they like it, or is that off limits on this channel?
Others who have received a copy for review have stated whether they liked the game or not. One couple even giving a rating out of 10. Monique & Naveen didn't seem very excited about it. They didn't answer my questions either so I assume they didn't like it.
hey guys! you covered the topic „downtime“ before in some video… could you point me to that one again? 🙃
Hi! We’re not quite sure which video you’re referring to. Can you describe it a bit more? Thanks!
i remember watching a video in which you guys talked about „making other players wait at the gaming table“… it was not the main topic appernetly, hence i couldn‘t find it anymore 😕
I actually don’t feel like going for this one…I felt the cave cards were fiddly. Wingspan itself is already quite a hard game to sell to non gamers friends. And I feel wyrspram is going to be worse.
And the best thing about wingspan is its simplicity and how perfectly they time the game end. I don’t feel adding complexity makes the game better. I don’t feel spamming egg was a bothering issue because all players could do the same.
"Eggs are harder to get" my foot
The last time my friends and I played Wyrmspan together we had to use the x2 and x5 tokens because we were all getting so many eggs that *the supply ran out*
Well great on job on securing your eggs! Our point was that there is no dedicated action space that is literally just "lay eggs" like there is in Wingspan.
I disagree about the egg row in wingspan. It’s only worth it to max out your egg row if you have already played a bunch of other birds elsewhere that you can lay eggs on because the egg row cards themselves fill up very quickly (one or two taps). Perhaps for the last few turns of the game someone might repeatedly tap the egg row, but the entire rest of the game they would have had to have played cards to make that worth their while or the eggs will just be wasted.
Agreed. Though I have to say with online play that has only the base game, there are a lot of 'optimized' strategies that focus on cheap birds that are generating easy points and resources and filling it up with high point value birds and a full grassland to generate many points in the last few turns. The base game is a little unbalanced. With the addition of way more birds, (mainly engine cards) and more diversity of end of round goals and bonus cards this is much improved.
Any idea of release date?
It will be available on the Stonemaier Games store starting Jan 31st, 2024.
Thank you!@@cindykee3719
this is one of brilliant retheme i ever seen.
Dragons... do you need anything more? Take my money please!
I dunno, maybe a good game?
"All the dragons are looking cute."
....I think that's the very last a dragon wants to hear! ;-)
In fact that leads to the biggest issue and disappointment about the game.
It should have been dark and while the dragon could have been more bright like a real golden dragon, fire dragon, green poison dragon, blue lightning dragon, white light dragon.
They made the opposite to make the game appeal to the same target group as Wingspan.
How would Scythe look like if it had been released AFTER Wingspan?
we have both and I found the bird cards interesting. With wyrmspan i was looking past the dragons and their names because they are made up and i just didn't care. I did really like some of the mechanics for wyrmspan. I actually found wingspan more difficult because you had to rely on the dice where wyrmspan seemed less about luck.
To say Wingspan doesn't have a theme is ludicrous! 😅
"Birdnapping" 🤣
In Wingspan most of the birds look the same to us, so doesn’t feel all too thematic. Love the different dragon designs in Wyrmspan 🐉❤️
Idk. Looks cool. But i like the real life birds theme much more.
I don’t see how there can be facts about fictional things like dragons. It’s not like Lord of the Ring lore where its all contained into one universe. Dragons are general fiction.
The facts would be worldbuilding for this game’s world, not dragons in general. I’m really excited for the dragon facts book, great way to make the biodiversity of dragons feel real.
They could include facts on cultural views of dragons. For example, dragons are derived from the ancient concept of massive serpents. Dragons represented the devil in Christian folklore during the High Middle Ages. Stuff like that.
I can't get past the fact a wyrm is a legless, WINGLESS serpent, I'll stick with an original every time
#wingit #dontwingit 🤣
17:15 🤣