My husband and I have attended IHOP both the prayer room and conferences for about 10 years. We were not Bickle followers but enjoyed the intercession and refreshment from attending events. I have received a number of healings in the prayer room. I pray that the prayer rooms and intercession continue. Also the friends we have from IHOP are priceless. We have been in ministry for over 45 years so we are veterans in the body of Christ. Prayer is something we are all to do with out ceasing. This is a ministry that is much needed today. Let them cut the numbers, but continue with the prayer room. Jesus had 12 they will have 50.
I think it should close permanently and that the assets should be sold and a fund set up to help all the abuse victims. I don't think any the present leaders are fit for ministry for the foreseeable future. I think they need to go through a substantial time of serious introspection, deprogramming from Mike's teaching and influence. Coming out of a cult like IHOPKC takes time. The question, "What made me susceptible to follow someone like MB needs to be seriously explored and processed." I pray for all involved.
My Dear...hasn't satan deceived the majority of humans on earth? It all started with Adam and Eve, and continues in full force now. The enemy is sly, sneaky, subtle, detrimental, convincing, super deceiving and seems so smooth. The enemy even had the nerve to temp Jesus. But Jesus, fully human, rebuked him. That's what we, the followers of Jesus, need to do. Need to say," get behind me satan." Bible says RESIST THE devil AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU..JUST DO IT. There are a whole lot of FAKE ONES OUT THERE...80+% of so called pastors/prophets/teachers/evangelist are FALSE/FAKE and do not speak on behalf of Father God. It's beyond Horrendous and difficult to grasp. BUT all that Father needs is a REMNANT. STAY IN PRAYER THAT YOU NOT BE DECEIVED AND FALTER. Bible says, Trust no man. Have tunnel vision for Him alone. Time is short. Point the way to the cross and keep souls from going to hell. Praise His Holy name and be mightily BLESSED.
Victims should be treated fairly, that is “Ministry”;taking care of the wounded. Not restructuring so they can victimize the victims again. M. Bickle should personally / financially be held responsible. And he should NEVER be in leadership again.
I love all 'prophets, apostles and magicians' in charismatic "christian" churches. Since Jerry Springer show this is the only shows to watch and they are real! Now I am avoiding to be called "Evangelical' since most of times I have prove that I am not a camel. Just a Baptist to be on the safe side.
@user-pc3xq9gi2k…I honestly don’t think the Jane Does would sue. They were listened to, Mike got exposed, got kicked out and everything fell apart. That’s justice. That’s just my opinion.
Definitely...what's the hold up? Law enforcement doesn't hesitate arresting a layman for sexual crimes...and this has been going on for decades. ITS OUTRAGEOUS. I'M ANGRY. THEY have put countless people thru years of misery, torment, and hell. These vipers are worse than plain old infidels as they knew better. Down right despicable, don't you think ? O YES, FATHER GOD WILL BRING JUDGMENT AGAINST THESE FOOLS. YOU'VE HEARD THE SAYING.."YOU'VE made your bed and now you have to lie in it." Well, by the time Father gets done with them, they will be fortunate to even have a bed to lay in. When Father, takes them down, please don't laugh at it as Father will lessen their punishment...Bible says so. Many blessings to all who follow Jesus on the straight and narrow path. ❤️ 💙 💜 💖
Even though he is not serving time. He has not gotten away with anything. This man sleeps with a gun . He can not relax if someone walks down his block or for that matter any car that goes by he is on alert. Do you not think his address has been blacked listed off record with the cops meaning if they get a 911 call to his place chances are they will take their time getting there . If he goes to jail or prison he will be protected
@@albertlopez2237 THE REALLY WORSE IS YET TO COME. IS HE FORGETTING THAT FATHER GOD KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL, HEARS ALL.. KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WAY BEFORE NOW? HE HAS NOT A DROP OF FEAR NOR REVERENCE FOR GOD. NONE. ZIP, ZERO. GUNS WILL DO HIM NO GOOD WHEN GOD GETS HOLD OF HIM....JUDGMENT IS AT THE DOOR....
That’s my sadness too. Misty Edwards’s songs opened me up to the possibility of much greater levels of intimacy with God. I guess it’s partially our collective fault. I confess I never pray for those who are most exposed to temptation and the corruption of celebrity and fame.
The basic message I heard in Issac Bennet's statement was that it is all about the money and the survival of the organization, not the people who were harmed. It seems to me that everyone in IHOPKC leadership shares some responsibility for the evil done by leaders there. If God is in control of His church, why do they think He needs them to carry on???
I spent most of my life in pentecostal churches, but fortunately I had pastors who were excellent expositors of the Word, and would not stand for all of the stuff going on in charismatic & pentecostal churches. It seems to me that in most charismatic churches, the Word is secondary to the show, and that is a HUGE problem. I won't be at all surprised to see a revamped IHOP, because that is what will bring the people back and the money flowing. Do I feel sorry for the regular people at IHOP? To some degree, however this is what they asked for and wanted. My advice would be to run from that place as fast as you can, and find a church that actually teaches the Word of God faithfully.
"It seems to me that in most charismatic churches, the Word is secondary to the show, and that is a HUGE problem." AMEN! You are so right, it is so true. I too spent most of my life in Pentecastal circles.
I'm a full time multi decade CHARISMATIC...and I'm pretty hard on it on many levels...but it's not the show thats the problem period....its the same problem that the Baptists have...and I heard from a major hotel chain that when certain denominations hold their conferences there the porn rentals shoot through the roof...the word is constant at every charismatic/Pentecostal church.THE PROBLEM is personal HOLINESS...and I don't hear that preached at ANY MAINSTREAM CHURCH...Holiness and virginity is not being preached and THAT is the problem...sin is in the American Church and its in BAD shape...if you don't see that you need to be careful yourself.
Joshua and everyone, I really hope something happens re the Church before long. I've heard and read that it needs to be a Word and Spirit (Holy Spirit) move, genuinely from God. And far, far more wisdom, guidance and discernment given by the Lord, in order to lessen the tendency of people to go into the flesh, reacting with emotions etc, AND to prevent deceiving spirits slithering in, to cause so much trouble, both overtly and covertly. Leaders really MUST be as certain as they can be that this IS a genuine move of God, rather than assume it is (as with the 'Toronto Blessing'). Otherwise we're just going to have more disasters, and casualties. And what's wrong with far more focus on the Gospel? And deeper teaching about the bible? Is Jesus just a sideline now? Signs and wonders more important? How must HE feel about this? As if the Cross was a trivial thing?! One thing I can say with certainty is that while looking for a church, yet again, I am gaining so much from reading my Bible alone at home. Uncomplicated, clear, nothing demonic. Such a refreshing change, after all the charismania and other nonsense I've experienced. It may not be 'hip' or 'cool' enough for some people, but the Lord really does reach us as we just sit quietly and receive His Word. And as for sexually inappropriate behaviour by Church/ministry leaders (and far worse) surely this cannot happen if the Lord is moving deeply in their lives?!
First of all, thank you for covering all the issues regarding IHOP over the last few month in the good and well balanced spirit in which you did it! Regarding Mike Bickle let me first mention that I know Mike personally from the time back in my Bible School years in Berlin where he came as a guest teacher in spring of 1996 (if I remember right) and where I had the privilege to translate him from the stage (he was actually my very first big name interpreter-job; I've done a few since). Back then I was very much on the "prophetic side" of things and had great hopes of this movement reforming the Church in some way or other. Yet at the same time I also was hardcore "Word of Faith", listening to Brother Copeland and Brother Hagin a lot. Comparing those streams I more and more came to the conclusion that there were some clearly wrong positions regarding the roles of Prophet and Apostle right from the beginning in the so called NAR movement. I read the book "He Gave Gifts Unto Men" by Brother Hagin and found my concerns confirmed by this seasoned minister of God whose ministry had already spanned around 50 years at that time and therefore was able to write about certain extremes in doctrine which he had experienced even as far back as the forties, fivties and sixties. After this and some more considerations I made the decision not to follow any of the NAR Prophets and Apostles any more which of course included Mike Bickle. Through the years however by just picking up stuff along the way I sometimes was even disturbed by new styles and "techniques" that they seamed to use and endorse. I remember one time that I saw part of the regular prayer meeting at IHOP on GOD TV and was simply disgusted by what I saw (people behaving like in a trance, chanting the same things over and over, the whole thing resembling more a new age encounter room than a prayer meeting). Since that time I seemed to know in my spirit that there was something severely out of line spiritually with this movement (long before any scandal came to the surface). To make my comment short at this point: I strongly believe that we can understand the whole development and resulting scandal only in its fullness if we see the connection between Mike's and IHOP's (and others) doctrinal convictions and errors and their life styles. It's not only a scandal of misconduct and sexual abuse, it's also a decades long scandal of wrong teaching (Mike's eschatology, hello!), exagerations, wrong prophecies, wrong connections(!) and false practices.
So agree! There are many of us that were in the NAR movement and what a wake up call for me and others. I felt so alone for a while but how thankful to our God that leads back to His real path . …In the beginning was the Word … the only path .Thanks be to our precious Jesus .
@@deborahhoots7642 Hi Deborah; good question, but hard to answer in the commentaries of a RUclips video. I was mainly referring to basic things like the totally out of proportion role that they try to give to apostles and prophets. It comes from a wrong understanding of Ephesians 2:20, which they interpret as "every NT-Church must be built on apostles and prophets and their respective ministries" which is a distortion of what the text really says. Paul is mainly stating that now also the Church is built on the same foundation that the people of Israel has been built on all along. I believe he is actually referring to OT "apostles and prophets" at this point, which were people like Moses, Joshua (apostles) and of course the many prophets that we know. From this wrong basic conclusion they pull all kinds of new teachings that mostly stem from the revelations of their self proclaimed "apostles and prophets". There's a lot of information on RUclips regarding the errors of the NAR. Jus be aware of one thing: Many of the critics do not really have the discernment that they wish to have and so they put everything into the same box (like healing, prosperity, authority of the believer...they think that's all NAR). I strongly believe in healing, prosperity the authority of the believer and so on, but I'm no friend of the NAR and the "Bethel bunch" especially. So be aware; Kenneth Hagin for example -- who is bashed by many as the founder of the Word of Faith movement, was an outspoken critic of the wrong understanding of NAR apostles and prophets regarding their role in the body of Christ as well as wrong supernatural manifestations which he often said that they were worked through "familiar spirits".
This is needed work Joshua please keep it up. I see no way this obtains asset protection. They can start over but can’t take or keep any assets. Boz is right, it’s called fraudulent conveyance of assets if they try to keep assets. This reinforces the belief that IHOPKC leadership has been in for fame and fortune and this is about protecting their lifestyles. Blessings
Renaming IHOPKC solves NOTHING. ESPECIALLY, when it includes even one person from the past... Father will not allow any further nonsense as their cup overflows with iniquity , big time. They forget WHO is in control....
”Today I appoint you to stand up against nations and kingdoms. Some you must uproot and tear down, destroy and overthrow. Others you must build up and plant.”“ Jeremiah 1:10 NLT
Thank you for your coverage. I started following you because I felt you were covering this fairly and not just gossiping and throwing stones. This is for the best. We should all be in prayer because this may be the first of many influential ministries that will close down due to scandal.
Joshua, telling the truth is NOT gossiping. Obviously, the body of Christ needs to understand the definition of “gossip.” Gossip is malicious, meant to harm, and usually lies. Your intent of heart is to help the body of Christ deal with breaches “in the Tabernacle of David.” God desires these breaches to be repaired. Jesus was vigilantly assertive when correcting religious leaders and His own disciples, not to mention cleansing the temple twice. I fully support your coverage of this issues. You are brave for doing so.
LOVED "Joshua, telling the truth is NOT gossiping. Obviously, the body of Christ needs to understand the definition of “gossip.” Gossip is malicious, meant to harm, and usually lies. "
At 6:00 - They're shutting down IHOP and starting another ministry to shelter THEMSELVES from future liability. Do these people not comprehend that these assets do not belong to them, and that they are not "entitled" to use those assets to ensure their own job security? The donations that created these assets were intended as a gift to GOD; not to them, nor to the perpetuation of corruption. Zechariah 11:16 For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
LOVED "Do these people not comprehend that these assets do not belong to them, and that they are not "entitled" to use those assets to ensure their own job security? The donations that created these assets were intended as a gift to GOD; not to them, nor to the perpetuation of corruption."
Okay….you wanted us to respond Joshua: -No, I will not continue attending Forerunner Church (it is NOT slated to be closed at this point) nor will I attend any of IHOPKC’s parachurch ministries because: 1. God has not asked me to stay there 2. I believe the leadership needs very serious help in understanding how things got this bad. I do not trust them in many levels.
I blew the trumpet on this back in 2013 and was called a “sidewalk prophet” then John Mulinde came and brought the same word and the ppl there still couldn’t see the truth of what was going on. Finally, 11 years later the truth came out. The lack of discernment on the part of “leadership” or the blatant cover up by them should cause the ppl to truly seek the Lord. The whole head is sick and needs to be removed which ultimately comes from the teaching.
What exactly did you call out in 2013?Because personal real holiness has left the American church and the whole thing is nasty period...its full of divorce (same numbers as the world) porn is rampant and that's just the tip of the ice burg.
How dare they try to avoid compensating their victims- how unchristian- they have and will deal with years of counseling & trauma. This doesn’t just affect them but their families. They should everything they can including financial restitution - instead trying to escape consequences & penalties.
Thank you for the insight on ihopkc. Although I had been charismatic, I knew about ihop but not follow, and knew Misty Edwards through Glory of Zion (although my walk is not with NAR ministries at this moment) . It means a lot to walk in wisdom and to have knowledge of what is happening in this time of shaking is of great value to our walk with Christ and I appreciate all you done. I’ve had to step back a bit due to illness with self and family and have diligently followed Mar Mari Emmanuel as I felt led to intercede for him in prayer. Although he has indicated he is doing fine but the way he teaches is like no other in my life and after a life of charismatic it has given me a different perspective I never had before nor probably would not accept before. Anyway sorry for wordy but appreciate all you do. Pray for you and wish you the best.
All leadership were made aware months before the news came out, and not only did they fail to have the situation investigated (outside of churchgoers they assigned to be “investigators”), but they chose to keep those leaders in their respective positions. The trust is gone. Moving to another facility doesn’t fix the problem.
What about the people? Where can they "go?" What about the 24/7 prayer room? This is a spiritual Titanic that is sinking...on many levels. It's time to root ourselves in the Word of God. Thanks for this ministry. The show-like performances going on in the church need to be looked into as well. What do monster trucks and sword-swallowing stippers have to do with the church??? We are so off-target, it's not even funny.
God will provide and direct them to where they need to plug in. It’s not like this is the only church. God’s not limited by men. There are lots of other churches. Just have to depend on the Holy Spirit for discernment and guidance. God will provide.
My daughter and granddaughter are both students at IHOP College. I am heartbroken at what has happened. However, I do know that what can be shaken WILL be shaken. And the only thing that remains is Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. God will not be mocked. More shaking is coming and it's time for ashes and sack cloth in the church. It's a slippery slope when we get our eyes off the Word of God.
Not only should Mike Bickle be held accountable, but many of those close to him should shoulder responsibility as well. When men in leadership, who were close to Bickle, were totally duped, what does that say about their discernment and wisdom? Joshua, you said the whole foundation was rotten....., no kidding! How could anything from the KC Prophets have been taken seriously in the first place? Bob Jones is not now, nor was he ever, a prophet. And Sam Storms claims Mike's prophecies were all verifiable. No, they were not. What happened to one false prophecy and you're out? Sam Storms was completely caught off-guard on so many counts. That swamp needs to be drained.
Victims should have the right to sue IHOP or whatever new organization they create. I am a member of a denomination that 20 years ago set up plans and programs to address safety of children/adolescents and staff while in the church. All kinds of interventions were implemented to make our churches safe and they have been successful. IHOP is "going under" because they tried to hide the offenses and protect the image of the offenders.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimonethey need to be, restitution must be made. How much better it would have been for true leaders to offer before being dragged into court. I am so disgusted with churches in general and the sheep being deceived and lead to the slaughter. This is a stench in God's nostrils. Judgment and justice will prevail. Woe to those hurting children and minors! Matthew 18:6 and 1CORINTHIANS 5:1-5. The fear of the Lord MUST be restored, let the fate of Annanias and Saphira become be repeated. We use be holy, ser apart.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
My first response to your video is why the h##l is Sam Storms writing a book about it? And who cares what he would have to say about it? He's obviously not the one to listen to since 1) he has no decernment 2) well see #1. The problem with our current Charismatic church is they all believe they hear directly from God, and they are all prophets or Apostles or some such nonsense. The church has forgotten that God IS GOD and He is Holy. One day all these liars (I won't call them false) will face this Holy God and be accountable for being LIARS!!
I grew up in one of the churches that co-founded ihop. I left that church when I was 16. Long story short, my whole family is plagued with spiritual trauma but, I'm the only kid in my family who was able to recognize that the toxicity came from the people and the ministry and not God. I have never denounced my faith and never will. Unfortunately that has caused damage to my relationships with my siblings. My experience is much deeper and more elaborate that I can't get it all out in a single RUclips comment. Essentially, I'm grateful that the Lord is taking away this organization. I'm a firm believer that if you abuse your position and abuse your people under the name of God in your ministry, God will take it away. The church I was in that helped co-found ihop also disbanded several years ago.
I have appreciated your thoughts and conclusions as well as questions. I am grateful for the cleansing taking place in the church over all. Exposing the darkness to the light is what we need to move forward in repentance, confession, forgiveness, faith, and healing. Thank you for your part in moving us along toward a closer walk with our Savior and King.
Why would ANYONE attend this "new" organization???? Just because you put a new name on the same product, guess what? It's STILL the same product! People need to get in the Word and pray for discernment and stop 'following' men! God is cleaning His house!
One church can’t run operations on $18 million dollars? That’s not the reason why they’re closing. Please pray for the continued fall out from the sins of the leaders. Souls will be lost🙏🏼
Will HOPE CITY be shut down or Mike Bickle booted from there? Misty Edwards? Lock this guy out completely along with all Bickles who give him free access to anything IHOP!! What a travesty!
Moved to KC in 2003 and moved into a house ministry on Ashley called eagles landing.didn't agree with ihop's doctrine of no rapture.but thank you Lord for not closing the prayer- room that's been a blessing in the earth.
I used to read the Bible like it was a rule book. Looking thru that lens, Matt. 18:15-17 becomes a step-by-step "recipe process," demanding strict adherence to the sequencing. Because most people seem to view it that way, those leaders who live in sin are going to this passage as their favorite "brush back" technique, and it seems to work almost every time. People are put on the defensive, they rock back on their heels, and they start apologizing. I no longer read the Bible that way. Looking for God's heart behind what Jesus said, I now understand this passage differently. True, in most circumstances necessitating confrontation, approaching the offending party privately and in meekness provides the best possible opportunity for repentance, restoration, and all the good things that God desires to work. Same is true with a measured follow-up (take two or three), if that word of reproof is not received. But, this is not always the case. E.g., not when a public leader--especially an internationally renowned "apostle"-- has been practicing predatory clergy SA for decades and covering his tracks. Such an approach would be neither necessary nor effective. As a starting point, a public rebuke is in order, in these instances (see 1 Tim. 5:19, 20). We've been manipulated by those who twist the Scriptures. We need to be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves.
Blessings to you Joshua, ppl needed to hear this sought of stuff, it’s SO SO sad what I’m seeing in these messed up Churches today😢Keep calling out these bad fruits as they infect the the flock🐑🐑🐑🙌🙌🙌
Isn’t this a wake up call to Christians who have forgotten God’s definition of sin? Also a reminder of the first commandment : Thou shalt have no other gods before Me ? For leaders to take note (AMP) 1Peter 4:17 NKJV For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God. A warning to Christians who are living in disobedience. Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].
There have been issues for the past many years brought forth to leadership and the board. This group of leaders intentionally chose not to see or look at the issues that have been called forth on many different levels, homosexuality,sexual issues if all kinds and more. This is not a new development and the leadership knows it. But for those who were deeply touched and moved by the intercession of the 24 hour prayer room that was truly a wonderful aspect of this ministry. Trying to salvage anything they can out of this will only lead to more confusion. I pray for all the victims that of been dealing with this for years and have had no voice. And we can thank God that the truth has been revealed.
I feel like there needs to be a dying of the ministry in order for there to be a new birth. There are times when we need to fight and hold on and times where we need to let go and let something die so something new can come forth. I also think of those in Scripture who repented of their sin, specifically stealing, and restored back to those they stole from, maybe restitution would be appropriate in this case? But who is responsible? It’s extra complicated because of the many years that have passed and the different leaders that held positions at various times. Should the new leaders be held responsible for what the old leaders did or did not do? Is that just? Or is it good for them to repent on behalf of what they’ve been part of., regardless if they’ve been directly involved? Should the whole organization take responsibility or just Mike himself? Like one person suggested, maybe just selling some buildings and using that fund for restitution would be an answer, and trust God that if they need a new building in the future, God will provide, he will honor their repentant act. Let go and trust God. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents.
None of these leaders should ever be in ministry again. They can repent and even serve in other ways. But never in a leadership position. I have a past that stops me from being a pastor or elder. I know this. So I have been doing a RUclips page to do my part in the body. And I will serve anywhere God wants me to.
Isaacs response is nothing more than cover your own backside. Why anyone would remain in this church is beyond me. I get it that people are emotionally invested. But it’s time to wake up that God’s people must get into God’s Word and sit under competent teachers of Scripture. They do exist. Too many are looking for the supernatural over understanding God’s Word. I want to experience both. But this chasing after the supernatural at the expense of having a true understanding of Scripture is dangerous. This kind of insatiable spiritual appetite is inevitably fed by deceivers like Bickle. God is shaking the church and a lot of it is going to collapse.
This is so sad. I’ve been there several times over the years to spend time in the prayer room. My daughters did internships there about 20 years ago with no problems. PTL! Thank you for covering this Joshua.
Hi Joshua. I am from Adelaide South Australia. For some years now, God has been talking to me about these raging bushfires that would clear the undergrowth and that the only safe place to stand was where the bushfire had previously burnt. There were a number of scenarios. In some situations the land around a property would be destroyed, but the building would stand. In others the land would remain, and the building would be destroyed. Or both would be destroyed, or both would be preserved. I wasn't to pray against the fires. It wasn't going to be clear which scenario fitted which particular property. At first I thought this only applied to organisations but later understood it to apply to churches. This is the refining which we are now beginning to see. I expect to see more. I do not know which situation applies to IHOPKC. All this has evoked a respectful fear of God. I appreciate your ministry.
I'm curious as to whether or not they are providing any support for those who have been the most injured, the abuse victims and the students who are at the school. Is anyone stepping in to help them there's going to be so much hurt and damage that needs to be dealt with! These people are not just collateral damage, they are human beings who need to be ministered to!
Great commentary. It seems the Lord is cleaning house. I have closely been following the Lindell- Driscoll situation as well because my pastor is being mentored by Lindell, and I had concerns , and more so now. Ihopkc needs to close. The leaders need to go get into local churches, be under authority, and start a prayer movement there.
Speaking as a lawyer who isn't being paid by anyone to have an opinion, the attempt to dissolve and reincorporate the church to avoid legal liabilities would most likely be treated as a fraudulent transfer, especially so if they have made public statements that that was their reason for doing so. The only way to accomplish something like that is by filing for bankruptcy.
It was not only what Mike Bickle did. It was the inappropriate response of IHOPKC to the situation. The exposure of both has been foundational to the rejection of the whole ministry and the resulting lack of donations. If only they had cared about the victims.!! Unfortunately heart does not mean also the strength to do what is right.
Isaac's announcement only strikes the same tone deaf note that we've come to expect from IHOP leadership. How is it that he and his dad have been around IHOP and Mike for decades and only now does he see the organizational defects. He seems to keep business as usual as much as possible while blame shifting to Mike and the victims everyone except the executive leadership team..
So from what I understand they're disolving their assets so that they don't have to pay the victims? This just seems to get worse and worse. Avoiding accountability and then running from consequences...
Thank you, Josh, for your unbiased, kind & scripturally based reporting of the IHOPKC disaster. I am convinced God will completely demolish this ministry because the foundation on which it was built was cracked. People who abuse people were abused themselves. Healing can happen if they choose to seek help. The biblical story of Tamara come to mind. The abused need & deserve full & complete vindication, healing and freedom💗🙏🏽🕊️
Sorry but apart from the fact we live in a fallen world and just about everyone has experienced abuse from others at some time - in the sense of genuine rights, needs and feelings ignored - it is NOT always true that all (sexual) abusers have themselves been (sexually) abused, and even if it WAS true, we are each responsible for our own choices and actions. Some abusers simply enjoy the sexual power they have over vulnerable victims.
IHOPKC has and has had too much bad fruit. I never thought it was a movement from God. I always had my doubts. I'm not saying that people there were not Christians. I have some dear Christian friends and missionaries who were involved in some way with the IHOP ministry. However, personally, I always felt something holding me back. As Christians, we need to use Holy Spirit discernment.
God bless you, Josh. So very thankful for you, your character and your willingness to stand for righteousness. Thank you. I’m sorry that you’ve had other Christians come against you. However, it surely isn’t surprising…disappointing, yes….but not surprising. Anyone who stands on the Truth and doesn’t waiver will be attacked at one time or another. It happens. Keep standing on the Truth and reporting what you know to be true so that people like me can be informed. GOD BLESS YOU ABUNDANTLY.❤❤❤
I hope this doesn't protect them from liability! This place is a legit cult, I used to live right near them, weird stuff. Over-hearing crazy conversations from iHop members at the local restaurants. Stories of people getting evicted by their landlord because he incorrectly thought they were members and then got upset when he found out they weren't. People moving from all over the country, giving the church all their money, and then getting dropped off at the homeless shelter when they questioned leadership. There was even a murder associated with it.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Not that I'm aware of. I don't know everything, though. I never heard of any good works they were doing, which is what Jesus commanded. The praying excessively thing is something that Jesus actually commanded against. IHOP members always gave me the creeps.
Jesus said when you pray go into your closet and close the door behind you. But we know better, we pray and televise it around the world. Absolutely everything is wrong with the American evangelical movement. But nobody wants to know. So be it Lord. Amen! Thy will be done, not mine! X
@@clothedwiththesun Yeah, when I actually sat down to study the Bible line by line, not cherry picking a line here and a line there and a long sermon explaining why it means the opposite of it's plain meaning, I was like ooooh, this religion I've been taught is totally wrong!
All I can say is I pray wisdom and discernment to be with Isaac Bennett. What a heavy responsibility and burden to be lead pastor in general but through this? The Lord is surely placing his hand on him. I love the forerunner church and it is where I got saved and i pray that God would be glorified and the forerunner leadership team will hear God with clarity and walk in obedience to His leading and for supernatural peace with everyone throughout the new transitions to come. We all need to stay sober minded and be lifting these leaders up before the Lord. I honestly believe that the Lord has mighty plans in the future and He’s not done moving in this fellowship. HE WILL be glorified in the end. We need to stay humble church and live on our knees. Holy Spirit we surrender to you.
😢 im so gad to hear from you tjat you love tje people and IHOP. I am a missionary. I am from Minnesota and love now full time in Uganda. But i was one wjo used to attend the prophetic conferences. I loved the idea of 24 hour prayer and worship. .. this is so sad and yes its necessary to close down. The vision bearer is an abusive and manipulative man and should not be in ministry ever.
Hi Josh I think that this goes hand in hand with what is happening in our Government too. God resists the proud this is God taking his judgement on our leaders who are not representing God but more the other guy in the bible. So right on dude this is the best information to the world I have seen so far.
You would think that helping the victims would be the only priority. Why would you try to spread out your liability? I guess I don’t understand ihopkc repentance.
This is a tragedy not merely for a specific congregation, but for the Church and even worse, for the witness of disciples of Lord Jesus. All criticism for IHOP and Bethel etc have come from within the Church to the confused amazement of those outside the Church. Sadly this news will become welcomed in certain quarters of the Church. We the Church collectively fail every time one of these scandals occurs. And even though the Protestants distance themselves from Catholic scandals they end up being guilty of just the same. What has become of John 17:20-23? Lord Jesus says the proof of His claims rests on our unified witness of genuine love, yet...
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone indeed, but there’s so much collateral damage amongst young or novice believers who haven’t been discipled well enough to survive the fallout and disillusion.
IHOPKC has had “issues” for a very long time. You are correct, the Charismatic Church as whole needs much more accountability. Thank you for doing what you do.
King James Version , focuses on the importance of not to think of any men above that which is written. Power, money and Proverbs 18:1(KJV)seem to be dangerous to ministering , purity and soundness of mind. Thank you for your service , in these perilous times.🕎✝️❤️📖🐑🕊🙏
What would make anyone think that God has been blessing all of these large enterprises masquerading as a Christian Church? All of these flashy mega 'churches' are producing none of the fruit that should be present in a true CHRISTian gathering. The offerings coming in should be being redistributed to those members who are in need and surplus should be blessing widows and orphans, not building these obscene monuments which are nothing more than idols to inflated egos. There has been Words of the Lord (of course not from the pathetic prophetic) saying the days of these mega entertainment centres is over and the true Church is headed back to where it started. Small house churches where the Holy Spirit is truly welcome, where we don't argue over divisive doctrines and He is free to do what only He can do. Being healed, delivered and set free will simply be common place as well as being equipped to do the even greater works. In the meantime those lamenting over the loss of these entertainment centres might take a serious look at what they think the Lord's Precious Blood was shed for. If you take a look at the state of the USA in this day, you have to realize the 'church' these past decades is a replica of the church at Laodicea. The same warning applies today.
@marisamartin~ are you really using the term, “a little sin?” Bickle now meets criteria for Clergy Sexual Abuse and Sexually Predatory Behavior. In addition to providing alcohol to these underage teen girls allegedly the use of a date rape drug was involved, too.
Wow oh wow I just started attending here this year and I am in shock 😮at all of this very disappointed but like pastor What’s his name Isaiah said God want us to grow in our relationship with God the father that’s what I’ll focus on and forget congregation here and move elsewhere wherever The Lord wants me at this time. Very sad 😢this is even a thing in churches
That's not sad news. IHOPKC has been the source of much suffering, devastation, and trauma for many people. And what is the point of 24/7 prayer if their prayer is based on a heretic theology? IHOPKC turned out to be a church facade for a bunch of abusers. Rebranding won't help and I hope people will file lawsuits to get compesated for their suffering, and donors will file lawsuits to get their money back.
It's an absolute joke.....where is the accountability.....this is why I have lost all faith in the church system.....it's shocking behaviour..... obviously there are good church's.....but seriously this is not good
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
close this mess...church needs to wake up stop idolizing ministries and minister
Lets keep our eyes on Jesus
My husband and I have attended IHOP both the prayer room and conferences for about 10 years. We were not Bickle followers but enjoyed the intercession and refreshment from attending events. I have received a number of healings in the prayer room. I pray that the prayer rooms and intercession continue. Also the friends we have from IHOP are priceless. We have been in ministry for over 45 years so we are veterans in the body of Christ. Prayer is something we are all to do with out ceasing. This is a ministry that is much needed today. Let them cut the numbers, but continue with the prayer room. Jesus had 12 they will have 50.
LOVED "I have received a number of healings in the prayer room. I pray that the prayer rooms and intercession continue. "
I was healed in the prayer room
I have been greatly impacted by the min of iHoP and the teaching of Mike Bickle.
That's what you get for following false prophets.
I think it should close permanently and that the assets should be sold and a fund set up to help all the abuse victims. I don't think any the present leaders are fit for ministry for the foreseeable future. I think they need to go through a substantial time of serious introspection, deprogramming from Mike's teaching and influence. Coming out of a cult like IHOPKC takes time. The question, "What made me susceptible to follow someone like MB needs to be seriously explored and processed." I pray for all involved.
You might be correct on all this
Exactly!
My Dear...hasn't satan deceived the majority of humans on earth? It all started with Adam and Eve, and continues in full force now.
The enemy is sly, sneaky, subtle, detrimental, convincing, super deceiving and seems so smooth. The enemy even had the nerve to temp Jesus. But Jesus, fully human, rebuked him. That's what we, the followers of Jesus, need to do.
Need to say," get behind me satan." Bible says RESIST THE devil AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU..JUST DO IT.
There are a whole lot of FAKE ONES OUT THERE...80+%
of so called pastors/prophets/teachers/evangelist are FALSE/FAKE and do not speak on behalf of Father God.
It's beyond Horrendous and difficult to grasp. BUT all that Father needs is a REMNANT.
STAY IN PRAYER THAT YOU NOT BE DECEIVED AND FALTER. Bible says, Trust no man. Have tunnel vision for Him alone. Time is short. Point the way to the cross and keep souls from going to hell.
Praise His Holy name and be mightily BLESSED.
Very well said!
No. This is overkill. MIKE IS FIRED. FORGIVE HIM. FORGIVE THE WOMEN WHO WENT ALONG WITH HIS SIN. MOVE ON.
Victims should be treated fairly, that is “Ministry”;taking care of the wounded. Not restructuring so they can victimize the victims again.
M. Bickle should personally / financially be held responsible.
And he should NEVER be in leadership again.
I love all 'prophets, apostles and magicians' in charismatic "christian" churches. Since Jerry Springer show this is the only shows to watch and they are real! Now I am avoiding to be called "Evangelical' since most of times I have prove that I am not a camel. Just a Baptist to be on the safe side.
I doubt we will ever see Mike again
What victims? These were adult women knowing they were being intimate with a married man. Diane Bickle should sue these women.
@@janets.4384young girls, under age. Married 18:6
I think MB needs to serve time for his criminal abuse of minor girls.
@user-pc3xq9gi2k…I honestly don’t think the Jane Does would sue. They were listened to, Mike got exposed, got kicked out and everything fell apart. That’s justice. That’s just my opinion.
Definitely...what's the hold up?
Law enforcement doesn't hesitate arresting a layman for sexual crimes...and this has been going on for decades. ITS OUTRAGEOUS. I'M ANGRY.
THEY have put countless people thru years of misery, torment, and hell.
These vipers are worse than
plain old infidels as they knew better. Down right despicable, don't you think ?
O YES, FATHER GOD WILL BRING JUDGMENT AGAINST THESE FOOLS. YOU'VE HEARD THE SAYING.."YOU'VE made your bed and now you have to lie in it." Well, by the time Father gets done with them, they will be fortunate to even have a bed to lay in. When Father, takes them down, please don't laugh at it as Father will lessen their punishment...Bible says so.
Many blessings to all who follow Jesus on the straight and narrow path.
❤️ 💙 💜 💖
Even though he is not serving time. He has not gotten away with anything. This man sleeps with a gun . He can not relax if someone walks down his block or for that matter any car that goes by he is on alert. Do you not think his address has been blacked listed off record with the cops meaning if they get a 911 call to his place chances are they will take their time getting there . If he goes to jail or prison he will be protected
@@albertlopez2237 THE REALLY WORSE IS YET TO COME. IS HE FORGETTING THAT FATHER GOD KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL, HEARS ALL..
KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WAY BEFORE NOW?
HE HAS NOT A DROP OF FEAR
NOR REVERENCE FOR GOD.
NONE. ZIP, ZERO.
GUNS WILL DO HIM NO GOOD WHEN GOD GETS HOLD OF HIM....JUDGMENT IS AT THE DOOR....
Book em
I was a part of IHOPKC in 2004-2008. Some of the best people I have ever met I found there. May God Help us All.
LOVED "Some of the best people I have ever met I found there."
Me as well ❤
That’s my sadness too. Misty Edwards’s songs opened me up to the possibility of much greater levels of intimacy with God.
I guess it’s partially our collective fault. I confess I never pray for those who are most exposed to temptation and the corruption of celebrity and fame.
yup - that's where we met you!
Thank you for sharing this, it’s needed
The basic message I heard in Issac Bennet's statement was that it is all about the money and the survival of the organization, not the people who were harmed. It seems to me that everyone in IHOPKC leadership shares some responsibility for the evil done by leaders there. If God is in control of His church, why do they think He needs them to carry on???
I spent most of my life in pentecostal churches, but fortunately I had pastors who were excellent expositors of the Word, and would not stand for all of the stuff going on in charismatic & pentecostal churches. It seems to me that in most charismatic churches, the Word is secondary to the show, and that is a HUGE problem.
I won't be at all surprised to see a revamped IHOP, because that is what will bring the people back and the money flowing.
Do I feel sorry for the regular people at IHOP? To some degree, however this is what they asked for and wanted. My advice would be to run from that place as fast as you can, and find a church that actually teaches the Word of God faithfully.
LOVED "It seems to me that in most charismatic churches, the Word is secondary to the show, and that is a HUGE problem."
"It seems to me that in most charismatic churches, the Word is secondary to the show, and that is a HUGE problem."
AMEN! You are so right, it is so true. I too spent most of my life in Pentecastal circles.
I'm a full time multi decade CHARISMATIC...and I'm pretty hard on it on many levels...but it's not the show thats the problem period....its the same problem that the Baptists have...and I heard from a major hotel chain that when certain denominations hold their conferences there the porn rentals shoot through the roof...the word is constant at every charismatic/Pentecostal church.THE PROBLEM is personal HOLINESS...and I don't hear that preached at ANY MAINSTREAM CHURCH...Holiness and virginity is not being preached and THAT is the problem...sin is in the American Church and its in BAD shape...if you don't see that you need to be careful yourself.
Joshua and everyone, I really hope something happens re the Church before long. I've heard and read that it needs to be a Word and Spirit (Holy Spirit) move, genuinely from God. And far, far more wisdom, guidance and discernment given by the Lord, in order to lessen the tendency of people to go into the flesh, reacting with emotions etc, AND to prevent deceiving spirits slithering in, to cause so much trouble, both overtly and covertly. Leaders really MUST be as certain as they can be that this IS a genuine move of God, rather than assume it is (as with the 'Toronto Blessing'). Otherwise we're just going to have more disasters, and casualties. And what's wrong with far more focus on the Gospel? And deeper teaching about the bible? Is Jesus just a sideline now? Signs and wonders more important? How must HE feel about this? As if the Cross was a trivial thing?!
One thing I can say with certainty is that while looking for a church, yet again, I am gaining so much from reading my Bible alone at home. Uncomplicated, clear, nothing demonic. Such a refreshing change, after all the charismania and other nonsense I've experienced. It may not be 'hip' or 'cool' enough for some people, but the Lord really does reach us as we just sit quietly and receive His Word.
And as for sexually inappropriate behaviour by Church/ministry leaders (and far worse) surely this cannot happen if the Lord is moving deeply in their lives?!
You always have amazing insights to share with everyone. God bless you 🙌
First of all, thank you for covering all the issues regarding IHOP over the last few month in the good and well balanced spirit in which you did it!
Regarding Mike Bickle let me first mention that I know Mike personally from the time back in my Bible School years in Berlin where he came as a guest teacher in spring of 1996 (if I remember right) and where I had the privilege to translate him from the stage (he was actually my very first big name interpreter-job; I've done a few since). Back then I was very much on the "prophetic side" of things and had great hopes of this movement reforming the Church in some way or other.
Yet at the same time I also was hardcore "Word of Faith", listening to Brother Copeland and Brother Hagin a lot. Comparing those streams I more and more came to the conclusion that there were some clearly wrong positions regarding the roles of Prophet and Apostle right from the beginning in the so called NAR movement. I read the book "He Gave Gifts Unto Men" by Brother Hagin and found my concerns confirmed by this seasoned minister of God whose ministry had already spanned around 50 years at that time and therefore was able to write about certain extremes in doctrine which he had experienced even as far back as the forties, fivties and sixties. After this and some more considerations I made the decision not to follow any of the NAR Prophets and Apostles any more which of course included Mike Bickle.
Through the years however by just picking up stuff along the way I sometimes was even disturbed by new styles and "techniques" that they seamed to use and endorse. I remember one time that I saw part of the regular prayer meeting at IHOP on GOD TV and was simply disgusted by what I saw (people behaving like in a trance, chanting the same things over and over, the whole thing resembling more a new age encounter room than a prayer meeting).
Since that time I seemed to know in my spirit that there was something severely out of line spiritually with this movement (long before any scandal came to the surface). To make my comment short at this point: I strongly believe that we can understand the whole development and resulting scandal only in its fullness if we see the connection between Mike's and IHOP's (and others) doctrinal convictions and errors and their life styles. It's not only a scandal of misconduct and sexual abuse, it's also a decades long scandal of wrong teaching (Mike's eschatology, hello!), exagerations, wrong prophecies, wrong connections(!) and false practices.
So agree! There are many of us that were in the NAR movement and what a wake up call for me and others. I felt so alone for a while but how thankful to our God that leads back to His real path . …In the beginning was the Word … the only path .Thanks be to our precious Jesus .
You gave very rick insights. I hope many people read what you read. Everyone should be reevaluating NAR after all this
What does the NAR teach, practice, etc. that is different/wrong? I’m not aware, but certainly want to avoid it.
@@deborahhoots7642 Hi Deborah; good question, but hard to answer in the commentaries of a RUclips video. I was mainly referring to basic things like the totally out of proportion role that they try to give to apostles and prophets. It comes from a wrong understanding of Ephesians 2:20, which they interpret as "every NT-Church must be built on apostles and prophets and their respective ministries" which is a distortion of what the text really says. Paul is mainly stating that now also the Church is built on the same foundation that the people of Israel has been built on all along. I believe he is actually referring to OT "apostles and prophets" at this point, which were people like Moses, Joshua (apostles) and of course the many prophets that we know.
From this wrong basic conclusion they pull all kinds of new teachings that mostly stem from the revelations of their self proclaimed "apostles and prophets". There's a lot of information on RUclips regarding the errors of the NAR. Jus be aware of one thing: Many of the critics do not really have the discernment that they wish to have and so they put everything into the same box (like healing, prosperity, authority of the believer...they think that's all NAR). I strongly believe in healing, prosperity the authority of the believer and so on, but I'm no friend of the NAR and the "Bethel bunch" especially. So be aware; Kenneth Hagin for example -- who is bashed by many as the founder of the Word of Faith movement, was an outspoken critic of the wrong understanding of NAR apostles and prophets regarding their role in the body of Christ as well as wrong supernatural manifestations which he often said that they were worked through "familiar spirits".
This is needed work Joshua please keep it up. I see no way this obtains asset protection. They can start over but can’t take or keep any assets. Boz is right, it’s called fraudulent conveyance of assets if they try to keep assets. This reinforces the belief that IHOPKC leadership has been in for fame and fortune and this is about protecting their lifestyles. Blessings
Thank you Rick for confirming what Boz said. I value you because you have such great experience in business and church matters.
I think MB needs to serve time for his criminal abuse against minors.
Renaming IHOPKC solves NOTHING. ESPECIALLY, when it includes even one person from the past...
Father will not allow any further nonsense as their cup overflows with iniquity , big time.
They forget WHO is in control....
”Today I appoint you to stand up against nations and kingdoms. Some you must uproot and tear down, destroy and overthrow. Others you must build up and plant.”“
Jeremiah 1:10 NLT
Thank you for your coverage. I started following you because I felt you were covering this fairly and not just gossiping and throwing stones.
This is for the best. We should all be in prayer because this may be the first of many influential ministries that will close down due to scandal.
That means a lot to me. Thank you. Blessings to you!
Joshua, telling the truth is NOT gossiping. Obviously, the body of Christ needs to understand the definition of “gossip.” Gossip is malicious, meant to harm, and usually lies. Your intent of heart is to help the body of Christ deal with breaches “in the Tabernacle of David.” God desires these breaches to be repaired. Jesus was vigilantly assertive when correcting religious leaders and His own disciples, not to mention cleansing the temple twice. I fully support your coverage of this issues. You are brave for doing so.
LOVED "Joshua, telling the truth is NOT gossiping. Obviously, the body of Christ needs to understand the definition of “gossip.” Gossip is malicious, meant to harm, and usually lies. "
I consistently follow you because you are always thorough and act in a godly fashion. Thank you for your excellent videos!❤️
Wow, thank you! That means a lot to me!
At 6:00 - They're shutting down IHOP and starting another ministry to shelter THEMSELVES from future liability.
Do these people not comprehend that these assets do not belong to them, and that they are not "entitled" to use those assets to ensure their own job security? The donations that created these assets were intended as a gift to GOD; not to them, nor to the perpetuation of corruption.
Zechariah 11:16 For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
LOVED "Do these people not comprehend that these assets do not belong to them, and that they are not "entitled" to use those assets to ensure their own job security? The donations that created these assets were intended as a gift to GOD; not to them, nor to the perpetuation of corruption."
@hyacinthbucket593 AMEN!
Okay….you wanted us to respond Joshua:
-No, I will not continue attending Forerunner Church (it is NOT slated to be closed at this point) nor will I attend any of IHOPKC’s parachurch ministries because:
1. God has not asked me to stay there
2. I believe the leadership needs very serious help in understanding how things got this bad. I do not trust them in many levels.
I can totally understand you heart on this matter
I blew the trumpet on this back in 2013 and was called a “sidewalk prophet” then John Mulinde came and brought the same word and the ppl there still couldn’t see the truth of what was going on. Finally, 11 years later the truth came out. The lack of discernment on the part of “leadership” or the blatant cover up by them should cause the ppl to truly seek the Lord. The whole head is sick and needs to be removed which ultimately comes from the teaching.
What exactly did you call out in 2013?Because personal real holiness has left the American church and the whole thing is nasty period...its full of divorce (same numbers as the world) porn is rampant and that's just the tip of the ice burg.
How dare they try to avoid compensating their victims- how unchristian- they have and will deal with years of counseling & trauma. This doesn’t just affect them but their families. They should everything they can including financial restitution - instead trying to escape consequences & penalties.
Tammy Woods Mike dropped: Mike does not have friends. He has victims and opportunities. Anyone who calls him a friend is duped.
I heard that in the interview "ouch".
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimoneIt's a narcisstic trait. Don't feel sorry for him.
Thank you for the insight on ihopkc. Although I had been charismatic, I knew about ihop but not follow, and knew Misty Edwards through Glory of Zion (although my walk is not with NAR ministries at this moment) . It means a lot to walk in wisdom and to have knowledge of what is happening in this time of shaking is of great value to our walk with Christ and I appreciate all you done. I’ve had to step back a bit due to illness with self and family and have diligently followed Mar Mari Emmanuel as I felt led to intercede for him in prayer. Although he has indicated he is doing fine but the way he teaches is like no other in my life and after a life of charismatic it has given me a different perspective I never had before nor probably would not accept before. Anyway sorry for wordy but appreciate all you do. Pray for you and wish you the best.
I love Mar Mari. He takes us away from American Christianity
All leadership were made aware months before the news came out, and not only did they fail to have the situation investigated (outside of churchgoers they assigned to be “investigators”), but they chose to keep those leaders in their respective positions. The trust is gone. Moving to another facility doesn’t fix the problem.
IHop has been ignoring critics for years, even rudely slandering them, but now it's over. It is clear that this was not a work of God.
What about the people? Where can they "go?" What about the 24/7 prayer room? This is a spiritual Titanic that is sinking...on many levels. It's time to root ourselves in the Word of God. Thanks for this ministry. The show-like performances going on in the church need to be looked into as well. What do monster trucks and sword-swallowing stippers have to do with the church??? We are so off-target, it's not even funny.
The church has become a circus!
The people can find a church that faithfully teaches & preaches the Word of God. We know that didn't happen at IHOP. It was all about the show.
God will provide and direct them to where they need to plug in. It’s not like this is the only church. God’s not limited by men. There are lots of other churches. Just have to depend on the Holy Spirit for discernment and guidance. God will provide.
God can start other prayer rooms, built on truth, love, purity, sincerity, integrity. “If the LORD builds the house, nobody can tear it down.🙏📖✝️
There will be a House of Prayer for All Nations in Branson
My daughter and granddaughter are both students at IHOP College. I am heartbroken at what has happened. However, I do know that what can be shaken WILL be shaken. And the only thing that remains is Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. God will not be mocked. More shaking is coming and it's time for ashes and sack cloth in the church. It's a slippery slope when we get our eyes off the Word of God.
Not only should Mike Bickle be held accountable, but many of those close to him should shoulder responsibility as well. When men in leadership, who were close to Bickle, were totally duped, what does that say about their discernment and wisdom? Joshua, you said the whole foundation was rotten....., no kidding! How could anything from the KC Prophets have been taken seriously in the first place? Bob Jones is not now, nor was he ever, a prophet. And Sam Storms claims Mike's prophecies were all verifiable. No, they were not. What happened to one false prophecy and you're out? Sam Storms was completely caught off-guard on so many counts.
That swamp needs to be drained.
I tend to agree. But I'm sitting with the lord about everything. I know there are still good people who attend ihop and work their
Victims should have the right to sue IHOP or whatever new organization they create. I am a member of a denomination that 20 years ago set up plans and programs to address safety of children/adolescents and staff while in the church. All kinds of interventions were implemented to make our churches safe and they have been successful. IHOP is "going under" because they tried to hide the offenses and protect the image of the offenders.
I'm sure they will be sued
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimonethey need to be, restitution must be made. How much better it would have been for true leaders to offer before being dragged into court. I am so disgusted with churches in general and the sheep being deceived and lead to the slaughter. This is a stench in God's nostrils. Judgment and justice will prevail.
Woe to those hurting children and minors! Matthew 18:6 and 1CORINTHIANS 5:1-5. The fear of the Lord MUST be restored, let the fate of Annanias and Saphira become be repeated. We use be holy, ser apart.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
My first response to your video is why the h##l is Sam Storms writing a book about it? And who cares what he would have to say about it? He's obviously not the one to listen to since 1) he has no decernment 2) well see #1. The problem with our current Charismatic church is they all believe they hear directly from God, and they are all prophets or Apostles or some such nonsense. The church has forgotten that God IS GOD and He is Holy. One day all these liars (I won't call them false) will face this Holy God and be accountable for being LIARS!!
Thank you for sharing. This is not gossip and I’m sorry that people think you’re doing this. This is God bringing sin to the light.
I grew up in one of the churches that co-founded ihop. I left that church when I was 16. Long story short, my whole family is plagued with spiritual trauma but, I'm the only kid in my family who was able to recognize that the toxicity came from the people and the ministry and not God. I have never denounced my faith and never will. Unfortunately that has caused damage to my relationships with my siblings. My experience is much deeper and more elaborate that I can't get it all out in a single RUclips comment. Essentially, I'm grateful that the Lord is taking away this organization. I'm a firm believer that if you abuse your position and abuse your people under the name of God in your ministry, God will take it away. The church I was in that helped co-found ihop also disbanded several years ago.
@Joelmccoy1989 ~ are you free to share the name of the church that helped to co-found the start of IHOPKC?
I have appreciated your thoughts and conclusions as well as questions. I am grateful for the cleansing taking place in the church over all. Exposing the darkness to the light is what we need to move forward in repentance, confession, forgiveness, faith, and healing.
Thank you for your part in moving us along toward a closer walk with our Savior and King.
Thank you for commenting!
I have followed this & prayed. Thank you for revealing the outcome.
You are so welcome
Why would ANYONE attend this "new" organization???? Just because you put a new name on the same product, guess what? It's STILL the same product! People need to get in the Word and pray for discernment and stop 'following' men! God is cleaning His house!
God is cleaning house folks
One church can’t run operations on $18 million dollars? That’s not the reason why they’re closing. Please pray for the continued fall out from the sins of the leaders. Souls will be lost🙏🏼
I do believe donors aren't going to give to this ministry because of the scandals
Will HOPE CITY be shut down or Mike Bickle booted from there?
Misty Edwards?
Lock this guy out completely along with all Bickles who give him free access to anything IHOP!!
What a travesty!
Yeah i heard about Hope City. I doubt they would let Mike preach
I heard he and Misty have been ministering there.
I'm extreme.
Ly shocked that they worried avoiding lawsuit's proves. They're rotten people too.
Moved to KC in 2003 and moved into a house ministry on Ashley called eagles landing.didn't agree with ihop's doctrine of no rapture.but thank you Lord for not closing the prayer- room that's been a blessing in the earth.
its closeing down for its own protection, for the wrong reasons
I used to read the Bible like it was a rule book. Looking thru that lens, Matt. 18:15-17 becomes a step-by-step "recipe process," demanding strict adherence to the sequencing. Because most people seem to view it that way, those leaders who live in sin are going to this passage as their favorite "brush back" technique, and it seems to work almost every time. People are put on the defensive, they rock back on their heels, and they start apologizing.
I no longer read the Bible that way. Looking for God's heart behind what Jesus said, I now understand this passage differently. True, in most circumstances necessitating confrontation, approaching the offending party privately and in meekness provides the best possible opportunity for repentance, restoration, and all the good things that God desires to work. Same is true with a measured follow-up (take two or three), if that word of reproof is not received.
But, this is not always the case. E.g., not when a public leader--especially an internationally renowned "apostle"-- has been practicing predatory clergy SA for decades and covering his tracks. Such an approach would be neither necessary nor effective. As a starting point, a public rebuke is in order, in these instances (see 1 Tim. 5:19, 20). We've been manipulated by those who twist the Scriptures. We need to be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves.
Blessings to you Joshua, ppl needed to hear this sought of stuff, it’s SO SO sad what I’m seeing in these messed up Churches today😢Keep calling out these bad fruits as they infect the the flock🐑🐑🐑🙌🙌🙌
Thank you Kim.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Thank You back😂
At 9:00 - Many donors gave because of Bickle, his message and his anointing.
Being oily/slick is not the same thing as being anointed.
I cringed when i heard that
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone but it’s the truth. What do you do with that?
If it does close down that's a good thing. People need to heal. Too many lies and betrayals.
IHOPKC should not bypass a period of mourning since and repenting. Such is vital to knowing whether the organization should in fact regroup!
Isn’t this a wake up call to Christians who have forgotten God’s definition of sin? Also a reminder of the first commandment : Thou shalt have no other gods before Me ? For leaders to take note (AMP) 1Peter 4:17 NKJV For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God. A warning to Christians who are living in disobedience. Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].
Very well said Bob!
There have been issues for the past many years brought forth to leadership and the board. This group of leaders intentionally chose not to see or look at the issues that have been called forth on many different levels, homosexuality,sexual issues if all kinds and more. This is not a new development and the leadership knows it. But for those who were deeply touched and moved by the intercession of the 24 hour prayer room that was truly a wonderful aspect of this ministry. Trying to salvage anything they can out of this will only lead to more confusion. I pray for all the victims that of been dealing with this for years and have had no voice. And we can thank God that the truth has been revealed.
Very well said my friend
I feel like there needs to be a dying of the ministry in order for there to be a new birth. There are times when we need to fight and hold on and times where we need to let go and let something die so something new can come forth. I also think of those in Scripture who repented of their sin, specifically stealing, and restored back to those they stole from, maybe restitution would be appropriate in this case? But who is responsible? It’s extra complicated because of the many years that have passed and the different leaders that held positions at various times. Should the new leaders be held responsible for what the old leaders did or did not do? Is that just? Or is it good for them to repent on behalf of what they’ve been part of., regardless if they’ve been directly involved? Should the whole organization take responsibility or just Mike himself? Like one person suggested, maybe just selling some buildings and using that fund for restitution would be an answer, and trust God that if they need a new building in the future, God will provide, he will honor their repentant act. Let go and trust God. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents.
There is no replacement for personal holiness in your private life 100%
Please speak out about the James River Church Stonger Men’s Conference controversy. Your wisdom is much appreciated.
I believe he has already
I did a video on it: ruclips.net/video/PBzMhm7c62Y/видео.html
Thank you for the update Joshua. I'm saddened to hear this. I've been someone who has been greatly impacted by IHOPKC. May God's will be done.
LOVED "I've been someone who has been greatly impacted by IHOPKC."
None of these leaders should ever be in ministry again. They can repent and even serve in other ways. But never in a leadership position. I have a past that stops me from being a pastor or elder. I know this. So I have been doing a RUclips page to do my part in the body. And I will serve anywhere God wants me to.
Isaacs response is nothing more than cover your own backside. Why anyone would remain in this church is beyond me. I get it that people are emotionally invested. But it’s time to wake up that God’s people must get into God’s Word and sit under competent teachers of Scripture. They do exist. Too many are looking for the supernatural over understanding God’s Word. I want to experience both. But this chasing after the supernatural at the expense of having a true understanding of Scripture is dangerous. This kind of insatiable spiritual appetite is inevitably fed by deceivers like Bickle. God is shaking the church and a lot of it is going to collapse.
This is so sad. I’ve been there several times over the years to spend time in the prayer room. My daughters did internships there about 20 years ago with no problems. PTL! Thank you for covering this Joshua.
Good first hand information. It was a positive experience for your daughters! Good to know
Hi Joshua. I am from Adelaide South Australia. For some years now, God has been talking to me about these raging bushfires that would clear the undergrowth and that the only safe place to stand was where the bushfire had previously burnt. There were a number of scenarios. In some situations the land around a property would be destroyed, but the building would stand. In others the land would remain, and the building would be destroyed. Or both would be destroyed, or both would be preserved. I wasn't to pray against the fires. It wasn't going to be clear which scenario fitted which particular property. At first I thought this only applied to organisations but later understood it to apply to churches. This is the refining which we are now beginning to see. I expect to see more. I do not know which situation applies to IHOPKC. All this has evoked a respectful fear of God.
I appreciate your ministry.
I'm curious as to whether or not they are providing any support for those who have been the most injured, the abuse victims and the students who are at the school. Is anyone stepping in to help them there's going to be so much hurt and damage that needs to be dealt with! These people are not just collateral damage, they are human beings who need to be ministered to!
good reporting and word thx
Thank you!
They need to shut down. Take care of survivors then go serve someone who has Godly leadership so they can see what that looks like.
Great commentary.
It seems the Lord is cleaning house. I have closely been following the Lindell- Driscoll situation as well because my pastor is being mentored by Lindell, and I had concerns , and more so now.
Ihopkc needs to close. The leaders need to go get into local churches, be under authority, and start a prayer movement there.
I fell Lindell's ministry will not survive all this.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimonePray it doesn't. Eternity is long time to spend in the Lake of Fire, Revelation 21:8.
Speaking as a lawyer who isn't being paid by anyone to have an opinion, the attempt to dissolve and reincorporate the church to avoid legal liabilities would most likely be treated as a fraudulent transfer, especially so if they have made public statements that that was their reason for doing so. The only way to accomplish something like that is by filing for bankruptcy.
Great to have professional advice on the matter! I was shocked they came out and said this. Not smart at all.
If it was found on a lie it should shut down.
This is not sad news, this is wonderful news!
/Alleluia
It was not only what Mike Bickle did. It was the inappropriate response of IHOPKC to the situation. The exposure of both has been foundational to the rejection of the whole ministry and the resulting lack of donations.
If only they had cared about the victims.!!
Unfortunately heart does not mean also the strength to do what is right.
NAILED IT ON THE HEAD "It was not only what Mike Bickle did. It was the inappropriate response of IHOPKC to the situation. "
Isaac's announcement only strikes the same tone deaf note that we've come to expect from IHOP leadership. How is it that he and his dad have been around IHOP and Mike for decades and only now does he see the organizational defects.
He seems to keep business as usual as much as possible while blame shifting to Mike and the victims everyone except the executive leadership team..
Some of it was tone deaf. I have seen Isaac show real brokenness for all that occurred
So from what I understand they're disolving their assets so that they don't have to pay the victims? This just seems to get worse and worse. Avoiding accountability and then running from consequences...
Thank you, Josh, for your unbiased, kind & scripturally based reporting of the IHOPKC disaster. I am convinced God will completely demolish this ministry because the foundation on which it was built was cracked. People who abuse people were abused themselves. Healing can happen if they choose to seek help. The biblical story of Tamara come to mind. The abused need & deserve full & complete vindication, healing and freedom💗🙏🏽🕊️
Sorry but apart from the fact we live in a fallen world and just about everyone has experienced abuse from others at some time - in the sense of genuine rights, needs and feelings ignored - it is NOT always true that all (sexual) abusers have themselves been (sexually) abused, and even if it WAS true, we are each responsible for our own choices and actions. Some abusers simply enjoy the sexual power they have over vulnerable victims.
LOVED "I am convinced God will completely demolish this ministry because the foundation on which it was built was cracked. "
I'm glad you covered this story. You are doing God's work
IHOPKC has and has had too much bad fruit. I never thought it was a movement from God. I always had my doubts. I'm not saying that people there were not Christians. I have some dear Christian friends and missionaries who were involved in some way with the IHOP ministry. However, personally, I always felt something holding me back.
As Christians, we need to use Holy Spirit discernment.
Thank you for sharing this. I believe you were picking something up from the Holy Spirit
I wonder if the sad case of Bethany Deaton's death will be re-examined, given the new context we've been given of abuse and cover-ups.
Close them down. Will not listen to any of them.
God bless you, Josh. So very thankful for you, your character and your willingness to stand for righteousness. Thank you. I’m sorry that you’ve had other Christians come against you. However, it surely isn’t surprising…disappointing, yes….but not surprising. Anyone who stands on the Truth and doesn’t waiver will be attacked at one time or another. It happens. Keep standing on the Truth and reporting what you know to be true so that people like me can be informed. GOD BLESS YOU ABUNDANTLY.❤❤❤
Thank you so much
LOVED" Anyone who stands on the Truth and doesn’t waiver will be attacked at one time or another. It happens. "
Bad theology breeds this stuff.
Does that explain why a man on staff at John MacArthur's church abused his wife and kids?
Isaac Bennett is still clueless. If he had a shred of integrity he would've resigned long ago after demanding restitution for the victims from ihopkc.
I can understand my friend
Really good verse in Acts 5 for us to look to. A very good example,thank you for sharing that enlightening word considering this situation.
I hope this doesn't protect them from liability! This place is a legit cult, I used to live right near them, weird stuff. Over-hearing crazy conversations from iHop members at the local restaurants. Stories of people getting evicted by their landlord because he incorrectly thought they were members and then got upset when he found out they weren't. People moving from all over the country, giving the church all their money, and then getting dropped off at the homeless shelter when they questioned leadership. There was even a murder associated with it.
Do you feel ihop did any good at all?
I have a feeling many lawsuits are coming.
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone Not that I'm aware of. I don't know everything, though. I never heard of any good works they were doing, which is what Jesus commanded. The praying excessively thing is something that Jesus actually commanded against. IHOP members always gave me the creeps.
Jesus said when you pray go into your closet and close the door behind you. But we know better, we pray and televise it around the world. Absolutely everything is wrong with the American evangelical movement. But nobody wants to know. So be it Lord. Amen! Thy will be done, not mine! X
@@clothedwiththesun Yeah, when I actually sat down to study the Bible line by line, not cherry picking a line here and a line there and a long sermon explaining why it means the opposite of it's plain meaning, I was like ooooh, this religion I've been taught is totally wrong!
ITS LIKE A DOG RETURNING TO HIS OWN VOMIT....Father just spoke this to me. He knows ALL.
Amen, I thought the same thing.
Praise the Lord!!! Not sad at all. The only way to end corruption . . .
All I can say is I pray wisdom and discernment to be with Isaac Bennett. What a heavy responsibility and burden to be lead pastor in general but through this? The Lord is surely placing his hand on him. I love the forerunner church and it is where I got saved and i pray that God would be glorified and the forerunner leadership team will hear God with clarity and walk in obedience to His leading and for supernatural peace with everyone throughout the new transitions to come. We all need to stay sober minded and be lifting these leaders up before the Lord. I honestly believe that the Lord has mighty plans in the future and He’s not done moving in this fellowship. HE WILL be glorified in the end. We need to stay humble church and live on our knees. Holy Spirit we surrender to you.
I give Isaac some credit for sticking with the people. 9 out of 10 people would have quit given the situation!
😢 im so gad to hear from you tjat you love tje people and IHOP. I am a missionary. I am from Minnesota and love now full time in Uganda. But i was one wjo used to attend the prophetic conferences. I loved the idea of 24 hour prayer and worship. .. this is so sad and yes its necessary to close down. The vision bearer is an abusive and manipulative man and should not be in ministry ever.
The 24/7 worship will continue at ihop. But they will have less staff
Yes in fantasy but should not the leaders desire compensation for victims?
All of it needs to be shut down!!
Does not give people the heart or desire to support ministries ,when this kind of behaviour is going on.!
This is a good lesson to build people and not an organization.
So organizations can be trusted. But ultimately our faith needs to be rooted in Jesus
Hi Josh I think that this goes hand in hand with what is happening in our Government too. God resists the proud this is God taking his judgement on our leaders who are not representing God but more the other guy in the bible. So right on dude this is the best information to the world I have seen so far.
LOVED "God resists the proud this is God taking his judgement on our leaders who are not representing God "
Amen bro.
God bless all the innocent
You would think that helping the victims would be the only priority. Why would you try to spread out your liability? I guess I don’t understand ihopkc repentance.
So sad. Thank you for your thoughts. I love kcihop, too.
God is His CLEANING HOUSE!
May we trust in Him than any other, In Jesus Name!
Why hasn’t he been arrested?
Avoiding liability is the most Christian thing I’ve ever heard Lolol. Absolutely disgusting but right on queue.
This is a tragedy not merely for a specific congregation, but for the Church and even worse, for the witness of disciples of Lord Jesus. All criticism for IHOP and Bethel etc have come from within the Church to the confused amazement of those outside the Church. Sadly this news will become welcomed in certain quarters of the Church. We the Church collectively fail every time one of these scandals occurs. And even though the Protestants distance themselves from Catholic scandals they end up being guilty of just the same. What has become of John 17:20-23? Lord Jesus says the proof of His claims rests on our unified witness of genuine love, yet...
Well said Dylan. Although I think this is all nessicary for the long term health of the church. God is cleaning house and refining the church
@@TornCurtainIJoshuaSimone indeed, but there’s so much collateral damage amongst young or novice believers who haven’t been discipled well enough to survive the fallout and disillusion.
I pray for everyone involved. I am not involved. I do not follow men. Be merciful Lord Jesus. I will keep praying that is who I am.
IHOPKC has had “issues” for a very long time. You are correct, the Charismatic Church as whole needs much more accountability. Thank you for doing what you do.
Thank you my friend!
King James Version , focuses on the importance of not to think of any men above that which is written.
Power, money and Proverbs 18:1(KJV)seem to be dangerous to ministering , purity and soundness of mind.
Thank you for your service , in these perilous times.🕎✝️❤️📖🐑🕊🙏
What would make anyone think that God has been blessing all of these large enterprises masquerading as a Christian Church? All of these flashy mega 'churches' are producing none of the fruit that should be present in a true CHRISTian gathering. The offerings coming in should be being redistributed to those members who are in need and surplus should be blessing widows and orphans, not building these obscene monuments which are nothing more than idols to inflated egos. There has been Words of the Lord (of course not from the pathetic prophetic) saying the days of these mega entertainment centres is over and the true Church is headed back to where it started. Small house churches where the Holy Spirit is truly welcome, where we don't argue over divisive doctrines and He is free to do what only He can do. Being healed, delivered and set free will simply be common place as well as being equipped to do the even greater works. In the meantime those lamenting over the loss of these entertainment centres might take a serious look at what they think the Lord's Precious Blood was shed for. If you take a look at the state of the USA in this day, you have to realize the 'church' these past decades is a replica of the church at Laodicea. The same warning applies today.
I have been to a few larger churches that were good. But many of them no longer preach the truth
I'm glad i left this scene years ago and found the true faith... The Orthodox faith.
I have met lovely and sincere followers of Christ related to IHOPKC. A little sin can destroy so much.
@marisamartin~ are you really using the term, “a little sin?” Bickle now meets criteria for Clergy Sexual Abuse and Sexually Predatory Behavior. In addition to providing alcohol to these underage teen girls allegedly the use of a date rape drug was involved, too.
Wow oh wow I just started attending here this year and I am in shock 😮at all of this very disappointed but like pastor What’s his name Isaiah said God want us to grow in our relationship with God the father that’s what I’ll focus on and forget congregation here and move elsewhere wherever The Lord wants me at this time. Very sad 😢this is even a thing in churches
It’s so sad I just started attending 😢
That's not sad news. IHOPKC has been the source of much suffering, devastation, and trauma for many people. And what is the point of 24/7 prayer if their prayer is based on a heretic theology? IHOPKC turned out to be a church facade for a bunch of abusers. Rebranding won't help and I hope people will file lawsuits to get compesated for their suffering, and donors will file lawsuits to get their money back.
I understand why you feel this way
It's an absolute joke.....where is the accountability.....this is why I have lost all faith in the church system.....it's shocking behaviour..... obviously there are good church's.....but seriously this is not good
There are good churches. Its just harder to find them these days
Mark did not get kicked out of the event, just off the stage.
He returned to the staged and apologized how he handled the situation.....