Glad to have you back. Such a wildly different tone than NS and telling an entire audience they aren't pro enough to understand a game. Much appreciated.
I hear you but they didn't quite say it that way. Their point was that the way you play competitive Legion now is vastly different in the new version compared to OG legion which is very true and I'd agree that if someone thinks there is no difference in these 2 versions competively speaking then they probably arent the most competitive player which is totally fine. But yes, it could have been phrased a little better so I feel you and it is nice to hear positive feedback about this version rather than alot of the negative that has been thrown around.
@@isaacpendley5656 I appreciate you adding the context. I was being reductive and perhaps dismissive of the point being made because the person making the point was being a total dick. I'll do better next time.
Its nice to see some optimism regarding the changes. Time will tell if they are good or not. And unless you play competitively, just play the old version if you don't like the new one.
Good to have you back and that positive vibe! Can't stand listening to the other Fifth Trooper podcasts. Kyle and Mike and so slow to get any thoughts out, negative about Legion, and aren't any fun to listen too anymore.
Im actually very skeptical of the new edition and even i thought the last NS podcast was a joke Very nice to hear that even unintentionally jay was calling them out here I still think there are quite a few issues and i wish thry announced this edition as a beta and something to come later rather than dropping it immediately and changing the game rather than letting it build and change AND THEN have it be official but i do think that in a year or so we will all love the new game
I agree, I love the new version of the game. I always was a fan of mcp and still am I just like larger scale war games more than skirmish style so this feels like a wonderful mix of 2 rule sets and games that i like
I like the new edition (that's what it is) for the most part, the only thing I don't like is the stealth boost to white defense dice. Whose not going to set their successful cover saves aside (and even surges aside if they're in light cover?) and reroll their blank white cover saves for subsequent defense saves? if rerolling the exact die that was just a blank wasn't mathematically a teeny bit better, uncanny luck x wouldn't matter. You should have the option to replicate cover saves (if your entire army is red, so you don't have to bring them) with red defense dice, for example in light cover only the surge is a block and in heavy cover, only the red defense die's blanks count as cover successes. That's the same math as using white defense dice, but that way units of both defense dice type can get the benefit of gaming rerolls on the same die from cover, and players who didn't bring white defense dice units don't have to bring white defense dice.
Nice to see you back! I'm with you on being mostly positive about the changes. Except the random cover rolls. I look forward to relearning Legion with you 😂
I could see Random cover rolls being a huge sticking point with some long time players. I would not be surprised if there were unofficial "Legacy Legion" events here and there organized by the salty folks.
While I agree un informed negitivity is no good, toxic positivity is as well. There is legit positive changes and legit negative changes. I just spent $68 to print the rules in colour and the new cards on coloured card stock and that’s not nothing. I could have been cheap and printed the cards black and white normal paper, but then I would have to keep re printing them as they wear over the next year. I like the new art, but I’m not a fan of the card layout. I personally feel as though this roll out wasn’t thought out that well and Jay made a comment about the timing as well. It would have been easy money for AMG to have an upgrade pack for the new cards and have it ship out on the day of the announcements. “The new rules start on -- day and here are the cards in a pack for you to buy. We will continue to refine as stuff comes up” would have been an easier pill to swallow for many. Last comment about AMG making legion more like their other games. I haven’t played MCP or shatterpoint (one addiction at a time), but it does seem they are making an effort to bring Legion more into those play styles. If you want a shorter legion game, then go play skirmish. But AMG hasn’t made an investment in refining skirmish, instead they made spec ops. Legion is the big armies fighting it out game that takes 2.5-3 hrs, while they have the smaller hero skirmish game in shatter point that is made to be quick. The two should be separate in my opinion.
Sorry to say this but spending 68 bucks is you're own fault. You can easily play the new game with a free app like DTT army builder that tracks everything I agree with most of what you are saying but spending that much on something that's so unnecessary is ridiculous
@@Deathelement53 that’s your opinion bud and that’s fine. I like having my unit cards in sleeves on unit trays with their upgrades. Not everyone likes scrolling though a phone to look at things.
@AStrangeEvent Absolutely agree! And I support it fullstop. That however shouldn't be used as a criticism but a byproduct of the way you play. Those cards are all very likely to change so there is a massive likelihood that you are going to have to do it all again
@AStrangeEvent also Canadian so I understand trust me. I think they should have announced what they announced as "beta" and to let everyone know this is where the game is headed and that as a community we could all work towards making this version the best it can be for when it actually launches with product. There would be no downside to this approach
Jay- "if you dislike the changes you need to play more games to actually have an opinion, but if you like the changes you are obvs correct and more games are not needed to prove your opinion"
Great cast Bro. Glad to see you back on Legion. I left Legion for MCP mainly due to the long time length of a old Legion game compared to MCP. and I love the Marvel Universe. Excited to see the Legion changes that make it more like MCP 🎉😁
This update removed too much player agency in the game. Its more dependent on dice rolls than ever before. So less skill, more RNG. My groups NOT happy about this. Guess we're all just "sour pusses".
@@caspervinklerrasmussen5125 Instead you're shooting into eachothers deployment zones round one though. Also now that exemplar is shared I bet you will see even more factions pulling off clone balls. Just wait.
MCP and Shatterpoint don't interest me and I am unsure about making Legion more like those games. It is also a slippery-slope to reduce a game's skill curve and complexity for the sake of broadening the player base. Where does it stop? I am not saying that Legion cannot or should not become a little bit more simple, but I don't want a five minute party game or a Star Wars skinned "Sorry" or "Trouble." I have only played a Skirmish game under the new rules and am willing to give it a good faith try, but it is hard for a bitter SW Armada player to give AMG the time of day right now...
@@drbasseri to be clear, I do not think it is. I am responding to Jay's argument that a simpler Legion will grow the community. While I agree it will likely do that, at what point do you stop trying to simplify it for the sake of expanding the number of players. "Sorry" is an incredibly low skill, high chance game. If AMG continues to target the aspects of the game that involve higher skills and make them more random, you move the game closer to "Sorry." AMG clearly has a design philosophy that places less emphasis on the skill aspect. FFG developed Legion and Armada to be higher skill games and only rely on chance for the actual combat results. Again, Legion 2.6 isn't there yet, but the new course AMG is plotting may not be for everyone who enjoyed FFG's Legion.
@@CamillusofRome after playing a couple of games I really don’t see why the new system is less “skillfull” I don’t think they make the game simple, but the game is quicker and more units are valid now. The only skillful part with the old cover system was to realize don’t take any units with few dice..
I mean... I only started to follow this channel this year. I don't have your 6 year perspective of the game, but it sounds like you just don't like big wargames. I like mcp as well, but that's a skirmish game. Im not really looking to set up a new legion for 30 minutes, lose in 20, and pretend that that was fun. Why not just play shatterpoint if you just can't stand long games?
SWL used to have games won on a regular basis based on army composition, blue player, mission selection & deployment. Games were lost before a dice was even thrown, very difficult to balance and could result in players just going through the motions for the sake or confirming the conclusion. I'm not sure about all the changes introduced, but there is a lot of potential here.
@@Jak0vasI would disagree with the statement where games were lost before dice were thrown. As you stated game outcomes were determined by mission, army composition, deployment, blue player- that’s several variables that can influence the outcome of a game? In this new edition I suppose the more random elements (specifically cover) could sway in favour of a player who may have had a disadvantage from the outset( e.g. whatever reason, be it army matchups, unit placement etc). But this also works the other way? I’m personally not one for making more of the game based on luck. I understand the homogeneity of the new missions eliminates potential advantages created by players during mission set up- but that now has taken away player agency, and what I would also count as tactics in deciding where to place an objective?
Ugh.. can’t stand that legion was a unique game, now It’s just a rip of 3 others. 20 minutes games are garbage for legion. Who wants to spend more time on set up than gameplay.
Great to have you back! Nice to have some positivity and enthusiasm back.
Glad to have you back. Such a wildly different tone than NS and telling an entire audience they aren't pro enough to understand a game. Much appreciated.
I hear you but they didn't quite say it that way. Their point was that the way you play competitive Legion now is vastly different in the new version compared to OG legion which is very true and I'd agree that if someone thinks there is no difference in these 2 versions competively speaking then they probably arent the most competitive player which is totally fine. But yes, it could have been phrased a little better so I feel you and it is nice to hear positive feedback about this version rather than alot of the negative that has been thrown around.
@@isaacpendley5656 I appreciate you adding the context. I was being reductive and perhaps dismissive of the point being made because the person making the point was being a total dick. I'll do better next time.
They never said that.
@@Ilostmycactus k.
Its nice to see some optimism regarding the changes. Time will tell if they are good or not. And unless you play competitively, just play the old version if you don't like the new one.
It's nice to have a positive star war Legion podcast. The last NS was just so negative that it killed the desire to listen. Welcome back Jay!
Heck yeahhhhhh! Jay’s back, baby!
Great episode to kick things off. I’m super excited for what’s coming. Thanks, Jay!
Good to have you back and that positive vibe!
Can't stand listening to the other Fifth Trooper podcasts. Kyle and Mike and so slow to get any thoughts out, negative about Legion, and aren't any fun to listen too anymore.
Im actually very skeptical of the new edition and even i thought the last NS podcast was a joke
Very nice to hear that even unintentionally jay was calling them out here
I still think there are quite a few issues and i wish thry announced this edition as a beta and something to come later rather than dropping it immediately and changing the game rather than letting it build and change AND THEN have it be official but i do think that in a year or so we will all love the new game
JAY ROCKS!! Welcome back dude!!
Welcome back. Great to hear your voice again.
I agree, I love the new version of the game. I always was a fan of mcp and still am I just like larger scale war games more than skirmish style so this feels like a wonderful mix of 2 rule sets and games that i like
I like the new edition (that's what it is) for the most part, the only thing I don't like is the stealth boost to white defense dice. Whose not going to set their successful cover saves aside (and even surges aside if they're in light cover?) and reroll their blank white cover saves for subsequent defense saves? if rerolling the exact die that was just a blank wasn't mathematically a teeny bit better, uncanny luck x wouldn't matter.
You should have the option to replicate cover saves (if your entire army is red, so you don't have to bring them) with red defense dice, for example in light cover only the surge is a block and in heavy cover, only the red defense die's blanks count as cover successes.
That's the same math as using white defense dice, but that way units of both defense dice type can get the benefit of gaming rerolls on the same die from cover, and players who didn't bring white defense dice units don't have to bring white defense dice.
Where is ep 2??
Nice to see you back! I'm with you on being mostly positive about the changes. Except the random cover rolls.
I look forward to relearning Legion with you 😂
I could see Random cover rolls being a huge sticking point with some long time players. I would not be surprised if there were unofficial "Legacy Legion" events here and there organized by the salty folks.
Looking forward to the new landscape with the refresh. Shorter games with a easier learning curve are a good thing for growing the game's player base.
Wonderful man I like the new set format
Yeah boi!
Love the new format !
Thanks!
While I agree un informed negitivity is no good, toxic positivity is as well. There is legit positive changes and legit negative changes.
I just spent $68 to print the rules in colour and the new cards on coloured card stock and that’s not nothing. I could have been cheap and printed the cards black and white normal paper, but then I would have to keep re printing them as they wear over the next year. I like the new art, but I’m not a fan of the card layout.
I personally feel as though this roll out wasn’t thought out that well and Jay made a comment about the timing as well. It would have been easy money for AMG to have an upgrade pack for the new cards and have it ship out on the day of the announcements. “The new rules start on -- day and here are the cards in a pack for you to buy. We will continue to refine as stuff comes up” would have been an easier pill to swallow for many.
Last comment about AMG making legion more like their other games. I haven’t played MCP or shatterpoint (one addiction at a time), but it does seem they are making an effort to bring Legion more into those play styles. If you want a shorter legion game, then go play skirmish. But AMG hasn’t made an investment in refining skirmish, instead they made spec ops.
Legion is the big armies fighting it out game that takes 2.5-3 hrs, while they have the smaller hero skirmish game in shatter point that is made to be quick. The two should be separate in my opinion.
Sorry to say this but spending 68 bucks is you're own fault.
You can easily play the new game with a free app like DTT army builder that tracks everything
I agree with most of what you are saying but spending that much on something that's so unnecessary is ridiculous
@@Deathelement53 that’s your opinion bud and that’s fine. I like having my unit cards in sleeves on unit trays with their upgrades. Not everyone likes scrolling though a phone to look at things.
@AStrangeEvent Absolutely agree! And I support it fullstop. That however shouldn't be used as a criticism but a byproduct of the way you play.
Those cards are all very likely to change so there is a massive likelihood that you are going to have to do it all again
@AStrangeEvent also Canadian so I understand trust me.
I think they should have announced what they announced as "beta" and to let everyone know this is where the game is headed and that as a community we could all work towards making this version the best it can be for when it actually launches with product. There would be no downside to this approach
@@Deathelement53 100%!
Jay- "if you dislike the changes you need to play more games to actually have an opinion, but if you like the changes you are obvs correct and more games are not needed to prove your opinion"
Great cast Bro. Glad to see you back on Legion. I left Legion for MCP mainly due to the long time length of a old Legion game compared to MCP. and I love the Marvel Universe. Excited to see the Legion changes that make it more like MCP 🎉😁
This update removed too much player agency in the game. Its more dependent on dice rolls than ever before. So less skill, more RNG. My groups NOT happy about this. Guess we're all just "sour pusses".
You mean different skills? And if less skill means my opponent isn’t standing in his/her deployment zone for 5 turns doing nothing, I’m all for it
@@caspervinklerrasmussen5125 Instead you're shooting into eachothers deployment zones round one though. Also now that exemplar is shared I bet you will see even more factions pulling off clone balls. Just wait.
MCP and Shatterpoint don't interest me and I am unsure about making Legion more like those games. It is also a slippery-slope to reduce a game's skill curve and complexity for the sake of broadening the player base. Where does it stop? I am not saying that Legion cannot or should not become a little bit more simple, but I don't want a five minute party game or a Star Wars skinned "Sorry" or "Trouble."
I have only played a Skirmish game under the new rules and am willing to give it a good faith try, but it is hard for a bitter SW Armada player to give AMG the time of day right now...
Calling the Legion 2.0 Sorry or Trouble level of simplicity is a bit dramatic...
@@drbasseri to be clear, I do not think it is. I am responding to Jay's argument that a simpler Legion will grow the community. While I agree it will likely do that, at what point do you stop trying to simplify it for the sake of expanding the number of players. "Sorry" is an incredibly low skill, high chance game. If AMG continues to target the aspects of the game that involve higher skills and make them more random, you move the game closer to "Sorry." AMG clearly has a design philosophy that places less emphasis on the skill aspect. FFG developed Legion and Armada to be higher skill games and only rely on chance for the actual combat results. Again, Legion 2.6 isn't there yet, but the new course AMG is plotting may not be for everyone who enjoyed FFG's Legion.
@@CamillusofRome . Could not have said it better.
@@CamillusofRome after playing a couple of games I really don’t see why the new system is less “skillfull” I don’t think they make the game simple, but the game is quicker and more units are valid now. The only skillful part with the old cover system was to realize don’t take any units with few dice..
I mean... I only started to follow this channel this year. I don't have your 6 year perspective of the game, but it sounds like you just don't like big wargames.
I like mcp as well, but that's a skirmish game.
Im not really looking to set up a new legion for 30 minutes, lose in 20, and pretend that that was fun.
Why not just play shatterpoint if you just can't stand long games?
SWL used to have games won on a regular basis based on army composition, blue player, mission selection & deployment. Games were lost before a dice was even thrown, very difficult to balance and could result in players just going through the motions for the sake or confirming the conclusion. I'm not sure about all the changes introduced, but there is a lot of potential here.
@@Jak0vasI would disagree with the statement where games were lost before dice were thrown. As you stated game outcomes were determined by mission, army composition, deployment, blue player- that’s several variables that can influence the outcome of a game? In this new edition I suppose the more random elements (specifically cover) could sway in favour of a player who may have had a disadvantage from the outset( e.g. whatever reason, be it army matchups, unit placement etc). But this also works the other way?
I’m personally not one for making more of the game based on luck. I understand the homogeneity of the new missions eliminates potential advantages created by players during mission set up- but that now has taken away player agency, and what I would also count as tactics in deciding where to place an objective?
@@captaingar9244after playing a couple of games I can say that several missions are very different based on what army composition you have.
Someone screwed up a lot of you lose in 30 min, that was the same before.
Ugh.. can’t stand that legion was a unique game, now It’s just a rip of 3 others. 20 minutes games are garbage for legion. Who wants to spend more time on set up than gameplay.
You won't get 20 minute games. It is shorter, but not 2 hours shorter