Netflix, Bridgerton, Marina and Edwina: The Lack of Empathy is STAGGERING
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2023
- "Bridgerton" is a Netflix series based on Julia Quinn's novels. Season two stars Jonathan Bailey, Simone Ashley, Charithra Chandran, Shelley Conn, Luke Newton, Luke Thompson, Nicola Coughlan, Phoebe Dynevor, Claudia Jessie, Harriet Cains, Bessie Carter, Ruth Gemmell, Florence Hunt, Will Tilston, Polly Walker, Golda Rosheuvel, Adjoin Adoh, and Julie Andrews.
This video is an analysis of the animosity towards Marina and Edwina, and Netflix's refusal to pay Korean actors residuals.
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The thing with Edwina, and Mary was, they never did ask Kate what was going on in her life. Edwina did one time but she quickly changed to her topic again. Kate never told them the truths because none of them had bothered to get to know her as a person. How come Lady Danbury, a stranger, knew everything about their family, how broke they were? Because she did something Edwina and Mary did not in many years: check on Kate. If they did, they would've gotten information out of her. Kate hid things from them because it was so easy to hide things from them.
That was my problem with Edwina and Mary. Neither of them checked in on her and even let her become the de facto head of the house with responsibility no kid should have taken on -- which should have been Mary since she was the parent. But she instead let a teenage Kate become the head.
(Mary even admits to Anthony that she became overly dependent on her and that Kate worked hard as a kid to keep the family together after her dad.)
Yes, Kate should have opened up to them. But they weren't exactly stopping her from handling the household finances or checking in on her either. Mary didn't even realize Kate had a thing for Anthony while Violet at least picked up on her son's feelings. Mary and Edwina were 100% oblivious when they should have noticed.
Kate naturally felt she couldn't open up because she felt a huge burden of responsibility and that she had to sacrifice her happiness to secure their own. That was my problem and why I wish Kate got an apology too.
She made mistakes, sure -- but her sister and mom weren't exactly helping. They could have at least said, 'Hey, we weren't exactly making your life easier. Sorry for not checking in on you and letting you become the family head as a kid.'
@@LovelyLies16 it's because Kate probably had something called a rejection wound. You can get it in many ways, but a lot of the times you get it as a child if, for example, your parents leave you for some reason. You're too young to understand what happened and, on a subconscious level, you perceive it as a rejection. Then, as you grow up, you become a people pleaser and a caretaker. You do everything for those around you and nothing for yourself. Because that's your survival pattern. You think you must do stuff for people in order for them to love you and not leave you. Deep inside, you don't feel like you deserve love, you feel you must do things in order to earn it. And the people around you will never guess what's inside your heart. They will just talk about what an amazing person you are, and how you're so kind and take care of everyone, and never once think of yourself, but of others. You would think this praise will help you feel better, but it never does. You just feel like a hypocrite, even if you don't always understand why. Also, this only strengthens your belief because their praise is proof that they do love and appreciate you for what you do for them. So you'll continue to be terrified of ever being yourself, ever saying what you really think or how you really feel. It's honestly an exhausting existence. I speak from experience (in case it wasn't obvious). It's why I loved Kate so much.
this didn't happen. edwina did ask kate a few times what was on her mind--- she wanted to know, but was too naive to see that kate was hiding something. plus this is the most important moment of her life--- she's getting married!
@@chloez.8860 And every time she asked Kate just told her it was nothing. Edwina was also 8 years younger than Kate, so it makes sense for her to think that her sister, who never showed her weak side, "has it together" and believe her when she reassures her that she's fine.
People love to jump to conclusions to judge Edwina for being a bad sister, but when it comes to Kate lying to everyone and refusing to stay away from a man for her sister's sake then all of a sudden "it's just a tv show"
I think this is more an issue with Mary (the mother) than with Edwina, who is several years younger than Kate. This comment feeds into the point of the original video - people are disproportionately placing blame on Edwina.
Remember that Edwina is also under pressure - she's trying really hard to secure a proposal. She knows this is important even without the added issues surrounding her inheritance. Mary and Kate made it very clear to Edwina that her securing a proposal is important. Edwina understands this is her responsibility and she is trying to live up to it. This is in addition to pressure from the Queen who named her the diamond.
I really liked Marina! She did what she had to to survive in an extremely misogynistic society. Edwina, I loved!! She was a young impressionable girl and did what she was told and bought into the fantasy of "happily ever after" and when that facade cracked she learned that life isn't all roses. It was her maturation event so to speak and well.....its natural to be very angry when you learn everything you've thought was true is a lie. Especially when it comes from your own sister.
YES. EXACTLY. 💥🌸
Also agree. When I went through the show a second time, I realized that Edwina also had GREAT reason to think that she and Antony were connecting. There are numerous good scenes of conversation between the Edwina and Antony. It is because Antony and Kate's chemistry is 🔥 🔥🔥 that I didn't realize that Edwina and Antony connect also, just not in the same way.
Also, my second rewatching made me feel even more strongly that the ladies Sharma should have had more time together on screen so we could give Edwina and Kate time to talk and Edwina time to grieve and when she was ready, forgive. What happened to Edwina was messed up AND WOULD BE TODAY if we are all being honest. They set up this beautiful family in the Sharmas but did not allow their relationships to be seen on screen.
Thank you!! Marina is a boss. She was surviving. Edwina was upset rightfully but realized that her real love was her sister.
No, she is horrible. She was willing to ruin an innocent mans life because she couldn't keep her legs closed. Disgusting.
@@williethomas5116 I think people forget too, that marina‘s feelings towards Colin weren’t completely dishonest too… when marina found out her love match died in war she felt intense guilt… probably bc she actually liked Colin (maybe not in the tense first love fire love kind of way… but she truly had some feelings for him)
Marina had zero good options. I do believe she should have told Colin at some point about her situation, because look at how he reacted when he did learn. Had he learned the truth after they got married, he may have grown to resent her and that would have been one very unhappy household.
But it is messed up that her options were an ignorant boy or a gross old man.
And she certainly didn't deserve Penelope exposing her.
And then she found out that George, the father, truly did love her and he was dead. It's like the show went out of its way to make her miserable.
I wanna wrap her up in a comfy blanket with hot chocolate and hiss at everyone for her.
As for Edwina- the girl was 18/19 years old and thought everything was okay but then realized that it wasn't at the altar. Because no one clued her in, they all handled her with kid gloves but especially Kate. Let her be angry and petty for a hot minute.
Honestly, for some catharsis, I would have liked to see her be a bit more petty towards Anthony for playing her like that. Seriously, Anthony didn't need to take things that far. But does anyone mention this? Nope. They just blame Edwina.
Her mom does call him out and she says it’s no surprise that as the man it would take him longer to accept responsibility and blame because as a man he can put all the blame on Kate. Anthony even blamed Kate for his being so drawn to her because if she would only stop riding her horse in the morning, he wouldn’t need to come out and corner her alone and seduce her. lol
Well, there were many other suitors at her doorstep other than Rutledge and Colin. She could’ve chosen to marry one of them.
If you think Marina had it rough in the TV show, try reading the book she's in, if you haven't already. Gut wrenching, imo.
@@AmelieKaren7_13 I know. That's why I've been worried since S01.
Why did she not try to talk to the Cranes? That's their son's child she was carrying...
Girl. You hit the nail in the head. The Bridgerton fandom can be toxic and hostile.
I do think that much of the hatred towards certain characters are based in mysogeny, racism and fat phobia.
It's also a weird territorial thing from a certain chunk of the audience that lashes out at women that are seen as "threats" (but they're actually NOT AT ALL) to the endgame love interest. No one needs to be pressed, we are all very aware of who the endgame love interest is, let the drama happen! It's there to entertain us! 😂
You brought up a lot of good points. We modern girls tend to want to look at the regency period in modern lens. Put modern mores onto times of three hundred years ago. A pregnant girl had to marry and if she did not, she was forced into prostitution or being a mistress. It's about the same thing. The child was sent to the country to a couple to raise, out of the way and influence of the mother and the men. Everything Marina did, I understand. I understand Lady Featherington well. What she said was the truth. Even if you were rich or middle class, this was often the case with pregnant maidens. And forget the poor ones. It was just another day of surviving. Men could get away with murder and have all these illegitimate children. Even the princes had them. All they had to do was deny.
I do not hate Marina; I just have a bit of distaste for her for trying to Trick Colin. Her situation was not good, and she deserve no hate, specially from the supporters of Polin. She is not responsible for Pen and Colin's emotion, action, and relationship. She was desperate, not malicious. Another thing is that SHE was alone and honestly, Colin was the only GOOD man that would not forsake her if he ever learned about her pregnancy, even if he falls out of love for her.
Additionally, in my opinion Colin during that season wasn't even good enough for her. I genuinely hope for her faith to be different in the Netflix Adaptation, she deserves to be happy and be able to watch her Kid's grow up.
I will never understand the hate Marina got. She was put in the worst situation and did what she had to do. Which is why I was happy Daphne apologized to her. I need Penelope to acknowledged what she did to Marina next season. Edwina on the other hand, I felt bad for but also her character really frustrated me. Mostly because I found her aiming all her anger at Kate which is understandable from her viewpoint but MARY was their mom. Edwina is also a product of Mary’s failures and yet Kate is painted as the villain.
Good points. I am SO GLAD Edwina is not in season 3. She annoyed me.
@@83fbc I actually wish she was there so we could see the new relationship her and Kate have been developing. Kate Sharma is definitely my favourite character in the entire series and Edwina is big part of Kate. I wish we could see their new healthier relationship next season. Kate literally has had the biggest change in her life by gaining 7 new siblings but in a sad/realistic way she lost her sister because I’m assuming her and the prince are married.
@@FSG765 the writers had their chance with show! Edwina in season 2 🤷🏻♀️ Honestly, with the limited amount of screentime that Kate will have in season 3 as a supporting character, I’d prefer that they focus on deepening her relationship with Anthony and giving us a bit more background info with regards to her character rather than spending time focusing on Edwina who is no longer integral to the story moving forward.
She literally put herself in that situation. Nobody told her to screw around before marriage...
I had issues with how she treated Penelope. She did not try to respect her feelings for Colin and just belittled her when all Penelope did was try to be Marina’s friend.
Also, she should have just told Colin the truth instead of manipulating him and toying with his feelings.
I loved Marina’s story. She was in a vulnerable position. She deserved a better life. Racism still exist even in the fandom world.
Marina is the only character in season 1 that brought me to tears. Her story was so interesting and I hated the change in the show when you know how her character ends in the books. She is desperate wounded and strong
I'm so glad you made this video because Marina is a character I hold so dear to my heart, but damn the fandom's attitude towards Marina is deplorable. I ended up reading the books to fill the void that season 2 left in my heart, and it's mind boggling how many of the book fans actually hate Marina. When you read the books the hatred seems even more absurd. People are weird
I think Edwina shows much more maturity after the heartbreak. The ability to forgive post heartbreak and also being a romantic person herself as we know she loves stories and books. She's not practical in her personality, she's an idealist which make her see the bigger picture which that is what eventually helps her forgive. Her speech to the queen and king testifies to how Edwina believes in true love, in an idealist and captures human emotion much deeper than her sister Kate who struggled to accept her feelings for Anthony. I see a lot of myself in Edwina. She gives people a lot of benefit of the doubt and has blind and faithful trust in people who love her like her sister but her beauty is in her innocent soul who aspires to high ideals. I think she's fit for a higher status of marrying the queen's nephew due to the positions responsibilities that may require more higher values. My two cents
It's the level of nastiness directed towards the actresses that I find abhorrent. This is one of the downsides of social media that while actors can use it to let people know about their work and get feedback, they also end up being subjected to personal attacks for no reason. Both these characters enhanced the story they were part of. I'm glad they had something more than just being there in the background and both actresses did a brilliant job. I think due to this shows largely female fan base the female cast members seem to be getting a really hard time, more so than the males.
Great video
Yeah, its giving internalized misogyny.
Hate in this fandom is mad. From everyone. Regarding Marina, I find it all to be very grey. She was doing what she had to do with what she had. I also get that Pen acted to protect her friend/person she loves but it resulted on Marina being hurt and exposed. I, personally think she resorted to LW because of the eloping but it doesn't diminish how awful it was and the impact it had on Marina. Both characters were in extremely difficult positions, but certainly Marina had the most urgent situation, however, I cannot imagine not doing anything knowing that someone I care about is about to enter a situation with no way out.There was no right solution here.
As to Edwina and Kate, I was so shocked to find out that either of them get hate. I decided to join the fandom fairly recently so all of this came as a surprise. I don't see why Edwina should be so harshly criticized as she is, to the point that like Nicola, Charithra had to shut down TW to avoid all the harrasing. I love them both. Kate is strong and it's admirable, especially considering the time, that she decided to take over. Edwina was perhaps a bit naive but that's hardly a sin. I still cannot understand why people treat her so poorly. Her calling Kate half sister, in my opinion, was not something she actually meant. She was angry and hurt, which is completely understandable.
I love Edwina. I understand the critique of her writing needing to be better.
However, I love her relationship with Kate and I did like how she got along with Anthony.
I really wished they wrote a friendship between Penelope and Edwina considering she was one of the first people who treated Penelope with kindness.
I liked how she was a strong female character while also being gentle, kind, and a little naive.
I want Edwina to marry the prince :) At the end of season 2, queen Charlotte tells her that she has a nephew and he is available ❤ lol
DISCLAIMER: I love all of these characters, just needed to vent. Also english isn't my native tongue.
My problem with this fandom is that some characters are litterally being worshipped and if another character gets in their way, the fandom will not hesitate to burn that character to the ground.
The Pen girlies drag Marina all the time for being rude to Penelope and her feelings for Colin, while not understanding the difference in position. In season one, though not fully populair, the Featheringtons are a wealthy family which is why Marina was send to them in the first place. While Penelope could afford being in one sided love (which will change, I'm aware, I'm talking about season 1) for various reasons, Marina was faced with reality every second of screentime. Marina was not only pregnant while unmarried (scandalous), came from a poor family, was in an emotionally vunerable place and being in a household that clearly held some negative feelings to her, she was also very young and forced to grow up because of the situation. Yet again, she's made out the be the bad girl by some people.
Funnily enough this is the same argument Pen stans use against Eloise. "Not everyone can be a pretty Bridgerton." It's used all the time: Eloise being the priveledged one and therefore she should've had more compassion towards Penelope.
Why can't a woman show her emotions? Does she have to be nice all the time? We are talking about 17-18 year olds (?). With all the trends on femine rage and toxic masculinity, why are we still promoting choosing one woman over the other? Edwina may not have done everything perfectly, neither did Kate. Penelope and Eloise both had some questionable actions and I can see why people aren't pleased with Marina, but you don't have to hate them or be in a certain 'team'. Lets enjoy these character growths. Nicola Coughlan herself said in an interview (I cannot recall her precise wording) that she liked (to play) Penelope because she's human and makes mistakes.
As for the Edwina situation, people always be hating her or Kate, but I see nobody hating on Anthony. He was in fact the bigger problem is the love triangle. Kate tried everything (okay, except for telling her sister) to do the right thing while Anthony closed himself off entirely and gets being worshipped by the fandom in return.
I don't know, just some thoughts. Feel free to disagree and banter a bit (for the sake of a good conversation, not a fight) with me :)
Thankyou. Like I am ready to believe that Eloise also made some wrong decisions but she was a very loyal friend. She told all her secrets to Pen. And when Eloise finally found something otherthan lady whistledown (aka meeting with theo and discussing gender rights), Pen just couldn't see her happy because she thought her secret could be out. I mean Pen worshippers (yes I would call them worshippers) can just not agree that she was also wrong, in case of Marina for her own jealousy. If Daphne hadn't contacted the army general or whatever, Marina would have to live the life Lady featherington was showing her. Also she knew Queen was looking for whistledown, she tried to get her executed in season 1, but still she did not stop poking queen and it was her conversation with Eloise that made Eloise go to Theo after the broken wedding. I mean she could have told Eloise the truth and then they both could have come up with some plan but she decided to ruin her & her family along with it(We saw how nobody came to their ball).
Sorry for the rant but I am not saying that Eloise was right or Marina was right or that they didn't make any mistakes. No they r flawed characters and I like that. But these Penélope Worshippers don't even agree that she could do something wrong instead make others to be the wrong person and her some warrior surviving in this era.
Anthony had more sympathy cuz his trauma was shown Kate and family backstory none existence
So true! They for sure ARE worshippers and can't see anything wrong with Penelope. I get she was trying to protect Eloise, but it's because of herself that Eloise is even in danger. Pen develops Whistledown to shade everyone she wouldn't dare cross irl, and I get it toxic household blah blah blah. But the moment the queen got involved she should've told her best friend, even though that friend might be a litte nasty to her sometimes@@dilsedesi1704
Fair point! Though it's still weird nobody talks about it though... He's not perfect, as was made abundantly clear from episode 1 @@katrinarichards7891
I don´t get how people purposefully misunderstand Edwina. Like from the beginning she was lied to by her beloved older sister. Kate didn´t told her anything about the money deal, Kate didn´t told her about heer feelings for Anthony and their secret "affair", heck even at the beginning she only told Edwina that Anthony isn´t looking for love and just wants to fullfill his duty (which is then followed by Danbury, an much older and much more experienced woman, saying that love marriages are the actual rarity) but she doesn´t tell her exactly what sexist things things Anthony said about women
A big part of it is the lack of depth in writing and characters of the source material. It is wattpad level writing, and the on-screen adaptation emulates it often.
tbh, idk if it's even this, or just women self inserting themselves in Kate and Pen's shoes and using it as an excuse to hate Marina and Edwina
@@zurzakne-etra7069 Not gonna lie, some part of the fandom is batshit crazy and I agree with every point of the vid, but at the same time writers drop the ball repeatedly. Allow me to explain.
The marina storyline is VERY similar to Edith's storyline in Downton abbey. (Child out of wedlock, dead father, new rich man who proposed and offers new life.) But while DA shows Edith to be struggling with the decision to tell the truth, its a moral quandry for her, Marina goes out of her way to deceive Colin. Mind u, Edith also deceives in the end and says yes without disclosing the child's truth but as a result of her struggle she never comes off as unlikable. Marina does, even though her situation is far more precarious.
Similarly, Edwina was given such STUPID dialogues in her episodes. She keeps hinting that she didn't know his motivation wasn't out of love, while Anthony and Kate had been saying the very thing from the beginning. Her Church monologue is so weak.
These type of depictions are latched onto by some "special" viewers and get distorted into fckd up ugly things.
@@zurzakne-etra7069 Most women self insert into Eloise and Kate, because they represent the modern women. So they will defend those two at ALL costs.
I liked Marina's character and I feel bad for the way she was handled and the hate her actress received, she had no good options and Penelope did an awful thing by exposing her. As for Edwina... It's complicated. I don't think she deserves to be seen as an 'evil stepsister'-like character but I was disgusted by her 'half-sister' comment only because in my culture and I know in other ethnic cultures there is no 'half' it's all family so it seemed cruel to make that distinction (knowing Kate's insecurity about her family) BUT I do think that is a mistake the writers made and not critique that should be extended to the actress. Marina and Edwina don't deserve the hate they get but I also hate that it's caused a Marina Vs Penelope and a Kate Vs Edwina narrative in the fandom.
I believe it is sexism and racism also. They are just as flawed as the other characters but are getting all the heat 😔
Also, the amount of people in the fandom who believe that Edwina calling Kate “half sister” and being upset for a week is somehow worse than Kate actively lying to her about things she *definitely* should know about is both fascinating and absurd
Frankly, even with the petulance, Edwina shows surprisingly more emotional maturity than Kate and Anthony, overall. Like the entire conflict happens because they are emotionally stunted.
Edwina in the series was so much better than the book! I really do feel that Netflix's Bridgerton is superior to the books in every way. We get the multi-cultural romances, characters from the lower classes like Madame Delacroix and the Mondrichs, and a lot more depth to the side characters. I am really happy with how Edwina turned out. I also note that Marina at least had a chance to appear on the show's version of the story rather than being *ahem* off-screen.
BTW, props to you for giving Edwina and Marina some love here. I really appreciated this analysis, and that is part of the reason you're my chosen Bridgerton commentator. I love, love, love your tendency for over-analysis, whether you are geeking out over hand-stuff, talking about Benedict, or giving an in-depth look at characters who are not the love end-game for the show. ❤
There are a number of Kanthony fans that have chosen to view Edwina as not caring for Kate and being self-centered. They tend to view her as the evil step sister. It is largely due to them wanting nothing to stand between Kate and Anthony.
That sounds like the results of decades of being bombarded with misogynistic media that pits women against one another. Nothing productive about turning women into villains because there's even a drop of interpersonal friction happening. As if any of us get along with our family/friends/SO's 100% of the time? 😂
Polin fans need to stop speaking on Kanthony fans especially how you used Charithra as an excuse for the racist attacks launched at Simone Ashley who was compared to a man, and mocked for her appearance. Her acting was compared to an animal in heat and downplayed her performance to uplift the white man, saying he carried the scenes. Kate was called a manipulator, a groomer, a prostitute, a whore. People even were posting Kate was a sociopath and how they were hoping she would have died. Who have justified Kate being stripped of her lead role and having to share to co-lead with another WOC while your favorite white favs get to have the solo spotlight. We did not even get the opportunity to get to know more about Kates's past and even worse how they chose not to promote the female lead of s2 and claim it's suddenly an ensemble show. How it was applauded when Shonda Rhimes compared Kate to a prostitute and hooker while she promoted her Bridgerton book. How one of the directors called Kate the other woman in her own love story and how empowering it was for Edwina to call Kate a half-sister. It's also very curious how its Polin fans who have been driving this idea that people had a problem with Edwina because of the triangle and not because of how the sisters were portrayed. There was never any real triangle, to begin with. Edwina was never what was in the way of the couple. Kate would have never been with Anthony unless Edwina would have given her the blessing which was really weird because it was happening under the assumption Kate would be going to India alone. The issue had always been the relationship between the sisters where Kate who finally revealed that she did all that she did to be part of the Sharma family. And the Sharma family dynamic had Kate being isolated even at the end where Lady Mary and Edwina had no issue with Kate being alone all of her life in India. Even till the bitter end Kate was always positioned to looking for Edwina and Mary first, she was always coming last. The Sharmas were missing even from the epilogue after Kate was away for 6 months on her honeymoon.
@@crimeandmore2872 tbh, many fans were doing that to both Simone and Charithra when they were first announced... I've seen both Kanthonies and Polins say horrible things, and I don't think it's fair to point to one group and say "they're all horrible"
The only reason I cannot forgive Edwina is because of the 'half-sister' comment. I get her anger was very much valid but she literally told Kate her worst nightmare and her saying to kate that she is kinder-hearted than her. Which is basically the fault of Script writers and Director, no hate to actors but they could have shown her anger without the half- sister comment. I mean Kate basically kept saying to Edwina that Anthony won't be able to give her love countless times but she ignores and then in the 6th episode says the same thing. My problem is that it got to that point that people stopped rooting for Kanthony and how even till the end Kate was in guilt of falling in love with Anthony. The writers could have changed her words, the speech she gave to Anthony and Kate and still show the emotion of Anger and betrayal. It feels like to give Edwina a girl-boss moment the writers forgot what happened in the previous episodes. Her speech just could not give the impact the dircetor or writers maybe wanted too.
yess! thank you for making this video!!! Chari and Ruby get wayyyy too much hate for literally doing their jobs as actresses!
I read the LA Times article, Netflix had them sign contracts that were in English and made no effort to translate them. I'm thinking everyone needs to lawyer up.
I loved Marina and i couldnt hate her. I wanted her to tell collin the truth and see his character for what it really was but i still cant judge her. Edwina only frustrated me bc she was so angry at kate which is fair but never once mad at their mom for letting their family fall and have to be picked up by a literal child. Also hated that she kept making excuses for Anthonys disinterest. Like you yourself said you wanted what your parents had. How in tf is him admitting he doesnt get butterflies or feel passion for you the same as what ur parents had. It was frustrating to see a girl whose sister built her into having this supposed gracious high self esteem settle bc hes a pretty man. Like what were the writers thinking on that part
I haven’t finished the video yet but thank you for what you said about book Edwina not being a real character. People love to say that she’s so much better in the book but she’s not. I just wish they would admit that the only reason they prefer book Edwina is because she is a Kanthony cheerleader.
I’m never gonna say that Edwina is a flawless character, but almost every action that character takes is perfectly plausible for her to take. At most, it should’ve been expounded upon. There is a part of me that thinks that a lot of the hatred for her character is because viewers haven’t gone back to watch all what actually happened. They’re mostly doing rewatches of Kanthony scenes and not dissecting all of the canon events. So they hold on the to their first reaction, which was negative (probably annoyed)
I actually liked her in the books because she seemed to me to know more what she wanted. She didn’t get as far with Anthony, and I liked her story about wanting a scholar and being a scholar and bookworm at heart and how Kate being with Anthony actually gave her the freedom to pursue a marriage she was interested in and not solely for the sake of her family. 🤷♀️
I really liked the struggle of her having to “hide” it and play the part of the pretty debutante but she really just wanted to find someone to nerd out with and her beauty was almost more of a pressure than a positive (though that was never explicit I don’t think, but it’s part of why Kate and everyone else assume she is the marriageable one - her beauty and Kate’s lack of “fashionable” beauty, and her age.
@@ForbiddenFig This is interesting because IMO book Edwina is significantly more passive. We’re not really given any indications that her actions are her being highly selective about what she wants in a partner, so it more so seems like she’s just going through the motions and kind of lets things happen. I don’t recall seeing much of this supposed struggle between the expectations and what Edwina wanted. It was more like something we were told and then only brought back up to hand wave away any potential conflict between Kate and Edwina. The things we know about book Edwina are all things that we are *told,* not really things that we are shown or get to truly experience with her character. Ultimately, the writing for book Edwina *is* extremely flat. And while people may prefer that inoffensive portrayal, declaring that she’s a better character is a HUGE stretch, considering she’s not much of a character at all. She is written as Kate’s pretty and sweet sister who reads and *nothing more.*
I love this video! There's really something very pick me about women (because let's face it most of this fandom are women) who go around judging women like Marina or Edwina harshly, without being able to empathise with them and their situation. As badly written or as not so badly written as this show may be, the women are still people whose motivations all of us can relate to on some level, they're not so horribly written that they become these unsolvable puzzles...
marina is my fav character on bridgeton, love u for this ❤
I think both of these women should get their own season or spin-off
I won't lie, i liked book edwina but that doesn't mean series Edwina wasn't equally good or even better. She was a multidimensional character with an arc and personal development, something that lacked in the book. If there's one argument i can "accept" against her is the part she called Kate half-sister. But we all know that she said that because of her anger and she was just as hurt as Kate from this.
About Marina now. I've read all 8 books, so i hope I won't give any unwanted spoilers here. She's not at fault. She had to secure a safe future for her baby/ies and tried to do exactly that. Had she tried to marry someone else except Colin, Penelope would've never revealed the secret (ok maybe only if it was another bridgerton brother). I still can't believe that one of penelope fans paid Ruby on Cameo to make a video saying that Marina was wrong and Penelope was right (of course she didn't, instead she made a video saying the opposite lol)
And i can't know what's gonna happen in s3 but if Colin and penelope marry without him knowing the truth about lw wouldn't he be deceived again? Penelope is trying to do exactly what she prevented Marina from doing but fans are ok with that. Double standards🤡
I really hope i explained all this mess in my head the best way possible. Great video once again!
SPOILERSSSSSSS
You confused me there for a second. You said you have read the book, so you know the fans are expecting Colin to found out about Lady Whistledown this season as he did on their book. How is that a double standart? What reason fans have to believe that the writters would marry them before he found out? Colin already knew about LW when he proposed to Penelope in the books, obviouly everyone is expecting the same thing to happen in the show.
@@Ana_Paula.Frasson that's why i said "i can't know what's gonna happen in s3" they might follow the book more accurately like in s1 or refrain more from the book material as they did in s2. Nicola said that they've followed the book but with the changes already made in the stories there are parts of the book that can't be part of s3.
When i said about double standards i meant that people hated that Marina tried to deceive colin to marry her, but if he marries penelope without knowing he'll be deceived again and no one seems to care. Probably as you said because fans think he will know the truth by then
Also, like with the Kate and Edwina storyline (lemme preface by saying Kate defo comes off as a better sister, but I love them both, and defo understand where they're both coming from) it's strange to me as a fan that all of Edwina's bad traits are her own, and she's self centered, greedy, a golddigger etc., but her good traits are all from Kate, and what Kate taught her to be.
Just want to say, so happy to see another Bridgerton video from you in my subscriptions, I love them!
I've definitely seen some really nasty things said about these characters. And I mostly agree with your take here, they are nuanced like every body else. I do think Edwina is vain and naive at times. BUT she's a teenage girl with no real life experience of the marriage mart yet who has only read fairytales, so it makes sense! We would all be a bit like that right?
I think my own gripes come from the plot writing. And I love so much of the storytelling and poetic parallels they drew in season 2. But I feel like how they unraveled the end with Kate and Edwina made some feel like they took a shortcut re the fall. And just wrapped it up neatly without giving Kate some meaningful catharsis. I understand what they were going for, it just felt like they needed a PROPER talk and didn't really get that?
Unfortunately this makes some people turn on the characters. You see it for Kate too, some really don't get her side and say equally nasty things too. And same re Pen vs Marina, and El. I try to strike a balance and acknowledge the good and bad, but it's seems impossible for those who are just looking for any possible fictional punching bag. 😮💨
Great video! I agree, Marina and Edwina both had so much character and backstory, i dont understand how you can not feel empathy for them. I really loved how fleshed out and well thought trough their stories were. I hope we'll still see from them in future seasons, like we already did a bit from Marina. Especially Edwina, she is one of my favorite characters and i wanna see my girl happy!
The actress for Edwina already stated in an interview last year that she’s not in season 3
@@83fbc 😭😭😭
Rewatching the series, I have a love/hate relationship with Marina.
She did not even think to deceive someone until Portia forced her to do so. I do feel in her own way, Portia did try to help her. When they got rejected at the shelter, that was heartbreaking. This was one of their last chances of improving her life other than husband hunting.
I am not mad at Marina trying to survive. I am mad at how she treated Penelope. All Penelope did was try to be nice to Marina and they did have a nice companionship with each other. I hated how when Marina found out about Penelope’s feelings for Colin, all she did was bully and belittle her. Jeez.
I am mixed over Penelope revealing Marina’s secret.
I am glad Phillip was able to give her a home and a father figure to her kids. I really hope their story won’t be as tragic as it was in the books. My hope is that they have fondness for each other even if they don’t live each other.
The episode in season 2 focusing on Edwina’s heartbreak is my absolute favorite. I loved loved loved her character arc and I absolutely agree with everything you said in this video
This was healing! Thank you for your service💕
I do like Edwina in the book, because she’s an interesting character, but I don’t like her in the show because the show runners decided to dumb her down and make her selfish and irritating. I was actually really upset with that, because I like her almost as much as I like Kate in the book.
I do think a segment of our generation grew up chronically online, and as a result, are emotionally stunted and have poor communication skills. This seems to translate to how people react to characters. There is no nuance - every character with flaws is totally evil. Any amount of conflict makes the characters in it bad, rather than it being a part of life.
My reasoning for not liking Edwina (only at the end of the season) was she blamed Kate for making her marry Anthony? When Kate spent almost all the show against the couple. Edwina kept having these monologues about making her own decisions and being grown when it was her own decisions and not listening to her sister that got her in that mess to begin with. She acted all high and mighty towards Kate as if Anthony didn’t do exactly what Kate was worried about to Edwina.
If Kate had shown an ounce of honesty, maybe Edwina would have reacted differently. If everything is happening around you, and you are the last to know, you are likely to project as Edwina did. I hate that they forced this uncomfortable 'love triangle' that painted everyone in a bad light. It made it so that I don't like any of the characters from S2.
I seriously think they did Marina dirty. I will also die on the hill defending Edwina. It's clear that she was just in love with love and yes, she's a bit of a brat. It's called being a flawed character. Here's hoping that she will find a happily ever after with Prince Friedrich.
This video is long overdue and I'm so happy you finally got around to this.
I hope she marries the sweet guy from the race.
Thank you for continuing to put Selfie clips in your videos!
Converting the world into becoming Selfie fans, one viewer at a time. 😂🌸✨
Instead of understanding the context which forced Marina to do what she did (which, granted, was shitty), a lot of watchers only take in what's happening at a surface level and looking at it with current sensibilities.
This reminds me of this book we studied in highschool about a family in a 19 century super conservative religious society; the daughter is extemely rebellious and starts a secret relationship with an alcoholic labourer. She gets pregnant, and when her mother learns that, she gives her daughter some quite poisonous medicine to try to get rid of thw fetus, but her daughter dies as well. So in class, my classmates were explaining how horrible the mother was and how she had other choices, like letting her daughter marry thw labourer. I was so shocked at the way they hadn't been able to understand the characters, the society, the whole context of the situation and understand it as the only thing that could've been done.
Similarly, audience sees Marina try to lie to a guy and immediately "she's a villain". Not everyone who's been put in a bad situation and has to survive by dubious means is a villlain. Many people who believe in these black and white narratives and that doing a bad thing makes you an irredeemable villain are actually very selfish and would happily harm others to achieve their own aim. They might not even realize what they're doing to other because - yeah, lack of empathy.
About Edwina: I 100% agree that following the book's personality for her would be really boring and a bad move for a family-drama centered show. I loved Charithra's performance, she is so great. People were already talking bad things about her before the season premiered. Twitter was a war zone the whole month before s2 released. They complained about her presence in the posters, about the trailer, about Charithra appering in the magazine covers for s2, about her presence in interviews, etc. There was so much conflict going on that the actress stressed out (for real! As in anxiety stress, she said) and blocked a bunch of people one day, only for them to talk even worst about her online saying that she couldn't "take different opinions/accept not being the protagonist" which ultimatly led her to inactivate her account (that she only created in the first place after being cast in the show, to comunnicate more with fans after Nicola's advice, which only makes it worst).
With so much anti-Edwina's feelings appearing BEFORE the season was even out, I had already predicted the reaction after it would be even worse (and honestly, the best thing she could've done was shutting down that account before the season aired, I'm so relieved she didn't saw all that, she is too good for it).
And knowing that there's more people out there who also appreciate what the writters came up with for an originally bland character who served more as plot device than as an actual character, makes me really happy.
My only complain about her was when she called Kate a "half-sister"(because that sort of thing hits closer for me, and I don't really believe in "half-sibling/step-sibling" idea, if it was raised with you and by the same parents, blood has no part in it, it's your sibling, period), although I don't hold it against her, since it was meant to be an emotinal break point for the character to move her story along and it was resolved by the end, as character arcs are supposed to.
About Marina: I was super on bord with her story, partially for the same reason as Edwina: she was more of a plot device in the books (I won't spoil it for you, don't worry, I know you haven't read all of them and you don't want spoilers) than an actual character, and her story really rubbed me off the wrong way (I think sometimes that Julia Quinn just likes to use personality-empty women to move the plot along as an easy device). And because of that, I was interested to see how they could explore her more as a 3D character, even if in my opinion, she was introduced too earlier than she should've and I have some theories as to how that impacted why people hated her so much (more than sexism and racism). Her story was really well constructed, her motivations were always clear to me, I was extremelly simpathyzed to her and her struggles to save herself and her child, her journey was trully one of the best executed plots of the first season and it ended in a way that allowed them to put her in the spot she is supposed to in order to play her role in the future of Bridgerton (although they could've changed it if they wanted to, it didn't seemed to be the case). But after finishing the season I relized how much against her people were, especially book readers and I came up with theories why, that made the most sense to me: first, the choice of Colin. Colin is like the Nikolai from Shadow and bone, the Alex from Twilight, the Samatha from Sex and the city, the Seth Cohen from the OC, the Blair Waldorf from Gossip Girl, the Maximus from Tangled, so basically: the majority of the public's favorite character. So people were not willing to accept Marina's efforts to survive if it envolved trapping the fandom's golden boy in a lying/deceitful long therm relationship (I'm using "trap" for explanation pourposes as is how I often see in the reviews about season one), even if they knew in the end everything was always going to work out.
Second, Penolope. Penelope is written to be the emporewed girl and Lady Whistledown is supposed to be the wepon the opressed girl have to subvert her society as in "you made a joke out of me for not corresponding your expectations, so I'm making a joke out of you for following such expectations", so her publishes are never about actual struggling people, it's more about the hipocrises of high society families that shame on everyone even if they have their own share of scandals and secrets. That being said, the show takes a complete different route, by using Lady Whistledown to bring all of that ressentment/gossip/bad talk towards Marina, and forcing the public to see a very popular character again, in a situation were they didn't want her to be. So in anger for Penelope's actions, and not being able to put that blame in such a beloved character and not on "faceless" writters, they switch the blame to the only person in the situation they don't have a well stablished caring for, the one that "wasn't supposed to be in the middle", in this case, Marina. More as: "If Marina wasn't there and wasn't pregnant and wasn't trying to get with Colin, Penelope wouldn't have written the paper so therefore my favorite characters actions are not really her fault, but the fault of Marina who should've not being there", see? So they can continue to excuse Penelope based on the caring they already have for her beforehand, and since Marina wasn't originally supposed to show up now and neither is a fan favorite, their anger is thrown on her.
Third and final, previous knowledge to Marina's story and her lack of personality (in the books) created an aversion to be interested in how her story will unfold, knowing that not matter what happens, her future is already desinged and whatever writters come up with in the middle will only affect other people stories, not hers.
That all being said, I kind of hoped they could give her a different story in the future of Bridgerton, exploring some different possiblities now that they have already deviated a lot from the books, because they managed to create so much from her basically from scratch, but I don't know if they'd be open enough to do so.
Last: thanks for the article information, I wasn't aware of how Netflix operated in South Korea, even if now it's a big part of their content, I'll read more about.
Ten Things I Hate About You is one of my favourite movie.
Hi Lady! Another great video as usual!
I agree with your perspective about Edwina, she was a great character and I hope there is more information about where she is in part 2.
But Marina is somewhat complicated. Even in a modern society, we would condemn lying to a partner and she did lie and tried to take advantage of Colin. I understand that move came from being desperate, and she thought she had no options, but she did, She could have told Colin the truth and he might have accepted her, but what she did was pretty bad. However, I agree that she did not deserved Whistledown exposing her. It was a radical move and Penelope and Colin will need to talk about that in the new season before things settle with them.
But Daphne acknowledged how poorly Marina was treated and at the end, because of her, she had what she was looking for in her desperation, a respectable position and a husband who took care of her and her children. It just wasn’t Colin.
I liked marina
Completely enraptured with this whole video but NOT GONNA LIE I BROKE INTO UNCONTROLLABLE LAUGHTER AT THAT DVD BONUS FEATURE LINE
I MISS DVDS THAT HAD HOURS AND HOURS OF BONUS FEATURES AND WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET THAT THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE TAKEN THAT AWAY FROM US! 🤪
Ok, so this is another banger of a discussion. And just like your Queen Charlotte vid, because of my reading experiences, my thoughts on it also cross over to the general romance reader community (aka Romancelandia) and my frustrations with soooo many readers and their opinions on female characters.
I'm out of time RN, but I will come back with my essay reply (😉😉😉) probably after watching again.
So I’m very sad I didn’t find this when it came out because I love k-dramas & I had no idea they didn’t pay residuals… now I’m torn because I feel like views would help those workers push for more pay, but then that’s also rewarding Netflix for sucking. I know you said that the local strikers didn’t want us to stop watching the material, but I’m curious your thoughts?!
I also wish that Marina and Eloise had had a conversation after the pregnancy reveal because then Eloise would’ve realized how privileged her version of feminism is 🙄 would’ve also helped people realize her motives better if there was the back and forth instead of the convo with Daphne, someone who’s much better at listening comparatively and just accepted her reasons as valid
Also it’s sad how many people commented on my fanfic thanking me for not villainizing Edwina because so many fics made that the norm 😢 and that’s me keeping her pettiness (except mainly towards Anthony instead) so I do think there are more people that allow her flaws. They’re just silenced by everyone who shouts their hate towards her
I honestly don't know what the 'correct' actions are for consumers for those K-dramas. I'm not as familiar with the Korean industry's inner workings so unless I hear some sort of official statement from a labour union from over there I don't have any suggestions right now. I just wanted to use my small platform to share the story with more viewers so that if/when there's some sort of call to action to the audience, if won't feel like it's coming from out of nowhere.
As for season 2 and Edwina I feel like some people miss that it's both a romantic love story for Kate/Anthony AND a sisterhood love story for Kate and Edwina. Edwina was upset at Kate (and less so at Anthony) because KATE is the one she loves. That's her big sister. Anthony's just a stranger, she was never in love with him. 😂
Every time you say "that's a whole thing I can't get into" all I want is for you to GET INTO IT 💛
The problem is, my brain can always start wondering down different trains of thought that if I were to keep following those I would just keep writing a video without ever actually getting to the point of MAKING the video so people can watch it. I have to draw the line somewhere. 😂
@LadyJenevia SO very fair and I completely understand. I do love your social justice asides though. I could easily listen to a whole video on media's attempts to subdue people's natural outrage against warmongering (or how you said it, which I'm positive was better!)
@@kateliness2 That's why I keep going back to the cinema to rewatch a new Avatar movie A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF TIMES whenever James Cameron releases one in the cinemas. I get romance, adventure, environmentalism, and a giant Eff You to the war machine. 😊
@@LadyJenevia LOVE all of that.
And we’re back‼️ I like the comparison you made between Bianca and Edwina‼️ As for Superman I’m more a casual superhero fan.
Ps: I totally support single moms, especially because my mom was unmarried until I was six.
Yeah when Colin said he would've helped her anyway I laughed. Its ironic because Sir Phillip is trapped into martiage with her.
Hear me out,Edwina should held accountable for the mess, both her and anthony didnt listened to kate that their pov didnt aligned each other,they should apologized to Kate she tried everything,also we shouldn question why Kate had that personality of being stoic etc to begin with how she thinks she need to earn mary and edwina's love
Good analysis.
I feel horrible for how the fanbase treats Edwina, mainly because people tend to be meaner to women who are very pretty, and they would VERY quickly defend Eloise for violating Penelope even though Penelope tried her best to save her from herself.
However, I do NOT feel bad for Marina, because she CHOSE to do the act that got her pregnant, and then tried to TRAP an innocent and decent man like Colin, which makes her irredeemable in my book.
Edwina felt jealous to me first bcs shewas lied to, 2nd bcs kate was going to take the man and also bcs edwina always gotthings easy since kate provided them but now it is kate that is preventing her so she was jealous and angry
Besides the drama, I really like how Marina brought some shot of though reality to the series: poverty, aborti0n, the tension of having your hole future destroyed by having a baby that is the consequence of a romance that was interrupted by the war (I mean, Regency was marked by the Napoleonic Wars. For me, that's pretty evident a dose of racism and prejudice in the critics towards her.
Great video, Lady. Thanks for the input and critical view.
I was a bit nervous when I read the caption of your video that you would be sharing a lot of criticism towards how the writers wrote the characters of Edwina and Marina. I’ve been going kind of crazy waiting for season 3, so I was worried that I wasn’t going to be as receptive to any negative critiques towards Bridgerton. But, I’m really glad I put that anxiety aside because I learned so much from listening. First, I was pleasantly surprised to see you praise the writers for making Edwina and Marina so nuanced and fallible as characters. I’ve heard that some were disappointed with the way these 2 young women were characterized in the TV show. Especially since these characters were given more dramatic and contentious storylines in comparison to the books. (I’ve only read the majority of The Viscount Who Loved Me so I don’t have extensive knowledge of the book storylines.) So, you talking about your appreciation towards the writers for making these characters more emotionally robust was a unique viewpoint that I haven’t heard before. I also really appreciated your discussion about the plot of Season 1 from Marina’s perspective as a soon-to-be mother in regency England. With Season 3 soon approaching, there has been a lot of discourse surrounding whether Penelope will be an unlikeable protagonist because of what Lady Whistledown has done to characters like Marina. Seeing as how I am a big fan of Polin, I was really trying to not give Marina any sort of leniency because then I would be seeing Penelope as the bad guy. I would have to question why I’m rooting for a romance/happy ending for her when she’s ruined Marina’s chances for a happy ending of her own. Your points were definitely eye opening and a much needed wake up call. And I want to continue to push myself to understand and empathize with all the characters in Bridgerton. I shouldn’t be willing to dismiss the valid motivations of one character to avoid acknowledging the mistakes of another. I love watching your videos because they always remind me to see the bigger picture, consider situations from multiple points of view, and just to be a more empathetic, well-rounded individual in general. I’m very excited to see what you’ll have to say in the future about season 3’s storyline. Additionally, I would love to hear your opinions about how you think the writers should develop Marina’s story going forward.
Thank you for watching and being open-minded! 🌸
I don't really get into too many specifics about what I want to see for character storylines in the future because I'm avoiding knowing book lore before watching new seasons because I want to be surprised. 😂
It feels a bit silly for me to get into TOO many specifics about sharing what I want from storylines when I'm not someone who can (or wants) to analyse the optimal way to adapt/alter the narrative from book to screen, for the aforementioned reason. My desires for what I think should happen next are more broad than any one character's storyline.
In general, I want (in this order):
1) EVERYONE on ALL Netflix films/series to be paid fairly, be able to create under spectacular working conditions, AND GET BIGGER RESIDUAL CHECKS.
2) Any and all future love stories in the Netflix-Bridgerton universe to be varied from one another and written by a FULL WRITER'S ROOM (AKA never be written by just one writer).
3) Benedict to be season 4.
I agree that people ought to be able to empathize with these characters, and it is troubling when they can't. However, you don't have to like someone to empathize with them or want what's best for them.
For example, I empathized with both characters and rooted for both characters, but I only liked Edwina. I got tired of hearing Marina's sanctimonious and hypocritical speeches towards people. So even as I worried for her security and wanted her to find happiness, I also disliked her.
I just felt like that was a perspective that wasn't addressed as much in the video and wanted to bring it up.
You’re great Lady Jenevia!
I LOVED edwina and kate both so much
Marina could have gone home and had the child in secret and returned next season, that is what a lot of women did in that time. Using colin in that way was foul and if a man did that we would not be empathetic at all.
Imagine a man recently inherited a tiltle and gambling debts from his father. And to ensure his family doesn't lose their home he courts Eloise. The entire season he is trying to seduce her into ruining herself so they have to get married or convince her to elope. Would we still be mad at lady whistle down for exposing him? Would we care about his family situation? Marina was in a horrible situation but why should anyone else be made to pay the price??
I'm watching Bridgerton for the first time and just got to the scene where Anthony proposes. And don't get me wrong- Anthony is the most in the wrong and Kate should have been honest, but you can understand both their characters and why they're doing the things they are doing. With Edwina so far, you really don't see her character as much and so she comes off as very spoiled, naive of her surroundings and others feelings, and mostly- ungrateful. This might be because I'm the eldest of two daughters, but Kate and her mother gave up the last of everything they had and are doing everything they can to give Edwina something better- and Kate asks her not to pursue one man. ONE. And she decides that's the one she wants? Really Edwina? Because he's cute? And then she's so surprised when they don't like each other and things aren't going as planned? Like I didn't see any reason why Edwina would have been SO adament on Anthony, especially after her sister who is her supervisor, told her no? I hope we get more of Edwina's side of things because right now it's coming off as a sister who is giving every thing for a sister who will blatantly ignore said sister's wishes for shallow desires. I get she's looking for love! But Kate legit told her he's looking for soemthing else? So it's not like I'm saying Anthony is off limits since Kate likes him or Edwina doesn't have her own motivations- that's not my point.
And I understand this is how the choices of this season is supposed to happen so there's this specific conflict, I understand Edwina is a young girl and is SUPPOSED to be naive, but the lack of insight doesn't make me sympathetic towards her and has me rooting for Kanthony. Obviously I don't think she 'deserves' what's happening (I'm NOT ready for the Wedding scene 😢 and I'm constantly screaming at the screen for them to just TELL her), but I'm hoping as the season progresses she becomes more understandable/we get more insight so she stops coming off as entitled/bratty. So I guess I am sympathetic towards her- no one deserves what happened to her- but that doesn't make her likable.
Her actor is beautiful and deserves N O N E of this hate
i didnt like either of these two characters. at least with marina the plotline was kinda interesting but considering this show is a romance i dont find myself caring for the side characters, esp when they stand in the way of the couple (like edwina)
Both Kate and Mary keep the fact that the family is NOT financially stable. Also, Edwina chooses to act oblivious to the fact they are struggling as she lives in her own world and Kate and Mary let it be.
This is a very astutely put video- people can like some parts of Bridgerton while still critiquing the flawed writing around class/race even knowing the show was likely well-intended.
i personally find Edwina more likable and less annoying than her older sister, dont get me wrong, Kate is good protagonist, great older sister and caretaker, intelligent young lady,nevertheless i felt annoyed sometimes because of her 'not like other girls' attitude, it is just my biased opinion, i liked her despite my biased negative feelings thanks to Simone Ashley, whom i felt in love with since i discovered her from sex education tv show, i was so excited to find out she ll be main protagonist.About Marine, i liked her so much, I was rooting for her, i would be actually more interested seeing her as main character than Daphne. Im mad at the fact a lot of people hate Marine but find Daphne likeable.
The misogyny towards Edwina and Marina in the fandom - Edwina is given development in the show and people are mad that she has a personality outside of being a shipper. Same with Marina! The butchering of their characters in fics and discussion is wild!
I totally agree with you about Synder’s Man of Steel. I even pointed out to a fanboy that Christopher Reeves’ SM KILLED Zod, and this is an aside but Michael Keaton’s Batman killed some of Penguin’s circus goons, but for some reason they are looked at with rose coloured paragon glasses.
I also dislike the disdain that is heaped upon Marina and Edwina, it is not deserved at all, I actually am not a fan of Penelope and I am not looking forward to her being happy with Colin, but I will watch it.
Excellent points Lady Jenevia, a well argued video!
Yeh i didn’t like marina, she was serving bitter angry and manipulative which I didn’t like because instead of her being a victim of society and how horrible her situation is and how she doesn’t have a good option and is on a time crunch.
Edwina I loved buy girl got done so dirty. But then again she totally accepted that her sister would just put her life on pause while finding her a husband. And yes she does say a couple of times they should find someone for Kate but that would come after her own wedding. Also neither her or their mom decide to check on Kate who is handling the whole financial situation and how much stress is put on her.
I respectfully disagree with you on your critique of Bridgerton that you have to be not poor or working class to be a main character!
that is perfectly fine, shows are different, there are shows that have plots mainly about certain class of society just like there are shows that focus on certain topics different than others, and people have different opinions about monarchy some love it some hate it, to each their own, Bridgerton’s main characters and plot is about high regency society, there is nothing wrong with that, it has many beautiful element including romance that provide escapism, there is nothing wrong with that! On the contrary! And there are other shows that revolve around dealing with poverty , deep issues and their main characters are working class , there is nothing wrong with that either ! If you don’t like seeing high society class stories , monarchies or shows that don’t have political views or trying to end poverty or anything else , by all means you don’t have to watch them, you can find other shows that suit your taste , but I don’t think it’s right to criticize on such grounds ! Not every show is everyone’s cup of tea and that is absolutely fine! Also not every show or film has to be attempting to solve an issue or involve any class or topic, nor anything need to be a main thing in every show, it depends on what the show’s story is about and the kind of show it is, and you can take it or leave it .
Okay now most of this is just reaching
Two things can be true at the same time. I certainly don't dislike Edwina just because I love Kanthony. But Edwina is hardly a victim. She had all of the information she needed to protect her feelings.EVERYONE, including Kate and Anthony, told her Anthony did not love her (which is certainly not uncommon in their era). Edwina exercised no agency in acting on that advice but rather imposed upon Anthony her fantasies about who he was and how he felt. The story punished Kate and Anthony for their decisions, but Edwina got to act like the victim instead of just another person who made bad decisions and paid the price. And I completely understand Marina's complex situation but she was rude and disrespectful to pretty much everyone she came across, except for Colin, because she needed a baby daddy. I struggle to think why anyone WOULD like her. Ok, that's my rant over! Lol
but she didn't tho, don't get me wrong, I love Kate, and she defo comes off as the "better" sister, but she didn't have all the information available to her, and even when she found out about the Sheffield dowry plan, Kate still kept stuff away from her...
[EVERYONE, including Kate and Anthony, told her Anthony did not love her (which is certainly not uncommon in their era)]
With this, Anthony was actually stringing along Edwina, and even Violet and Daphne point it out to him, and tell him to break off the courtship with her... Kate does too! during that ring fitting scene when she says to him "after everything that's passed between us" and he replies to Kate, saying, "nothing has passed between us"... Also, Kate says "he cannot give you want you want" after he literally reads and is honest about how good of a husband he'll be... and Kate never really told Edwina of the comments he heard about him wanting to breed a woman or wtvr...
On top of that, Edwina has to choose between listening to all the other older married women around her (Mary, Lady Danbury, Violet and even the Queen) all pushing her to Anthony and telling her that he's the best match she can get, because he was, and her only job was to marry well and Kate's opinion, who herself was not married and said she was openly uninterested in it... Even when she asks Kate her opinions, Kate isn't wholly honest about her feelings to her because she still feels the need to protect Edwina, even though Edwina is old enough to be married off and to then have children...
But she didn't?? A lot was hidden from her - the dowry deal, Kate and Anthony's interactions - like that is the whole point. She is upset when her big sister hides things.
@@zurzakne-etra7069 If Edwina hadn't cancelled the wedding, Anthony would have married her out of duty, as he said from day 1 he would, so he wasn't stringing her along at all. Kate put her feeling aside for Edwina and Anthony put his feelings aside for Kate. Edwina did...pretty much whatever she liked. I certainly have no grief for the actress, she did a great job, but I don't think the story held Edwina accountable for her own bad choices, that's all.
@@CTM418 I don't click on videos just because I anticipate agreeing with the content.
I work security in a supermarket and the amount of theft I deal with everyday is frustrating and can be dangerous. There’s places they can go for help without putting me in a situation
Kate should be on the list.
Marina is pregnant by her own doing and had no right to trich Colin into marriage.
I dont think Marina is a positive character. She is shady😢
I didn't mind Marina. Though she was wrong, I understood her situation. I didn't hate Marina at all. I didn't hate Lady Featherington too because I can also understand why she is the way she is. As for Edwina, I don't hate her. I just feel she should've accepted responsibility for her role in the Kanthony mess cos she also played a part not Kanthony alone.
The person I actually dislike is Penelope. I didn't watch Season 1 until I watched Season 2 (when I watched S2, I didn't like what she did but I didn't get the full gravity of her deeds until I watched S1 then I was really pissed at her character). Pen is the character I wouldn't mind if people disliked her but she gets more defence for her character than Marina, although she's no better than her cousin.
I have sympathy for the situation marina is put in, but idk, something about how the actress played it rubbed me the wrong way. She had a smugness to her, that belied her desperate situation. I have empathy for her character, but greatly dislike how she was played. She didn't seem to feel bad for tricking Colin at all. She's desperate, I get why she's doing it, but it's a morally reprehensible act and I didn't get any sense of guilt or shame from her actions. It's a nuanced and layer character, but I just don't think the actress had the acting chops for it. But marina would have been a much more sympathetic character with a different actress playing the part.
Marina did what so many girls in actual Regency times would have done. She literally had no choice and no one can blame her for doing what she could to make sure her child would be provided for.
Edwina was so sympathetic to me. I felt so bad because Kate deliberately kept her naive and unaware. Edwina is an intelligent woman in her own right and Kate should have trusted her judgement more.
Especially if you know Marina’s book story, it’s mind boggling to not have empathy for her and understand what an awful position she’s in ❤️🩹
I think I've been noticing the same thing about the viewer demographic you mentioned and I've been feeling kind of disheartened by it lately. My theory is low media literacy* combined with a lack of curiosity about characters and scenarios that aren't immediately "relatable."
*I say this with love -- not everyone has an interest in, or an affinity for, identifying and critically examining patterns and cues in the art we engage with. It would be nice if more viewers' passive levels of media literacy were higher, but that's a mountain our education system will have to tackle. ....I hope we can figure that part out sooner rather than later, or it's gonna be bleak out here for a good long while lol 🥲
And that's the charitable take. The lack of empathy here is much harder to defend for all the reasons you laid out in this video. 😮💨 Systemic injustice, man....
I don’t actually go deep into fandom spaces for any media unless I’m looking for something specific because it doesn’t matter what show/film/franchise it is - going too deep into any pop culture fandom will make the experience less fun for me. 😂
Despite that, I got a general sense of the issue certain people were having with these women pretty quickly when posting about season 2 and TBH I care more about people taking away the fact that the most wealthy people in the world are waging economic warfare against literally all of the rest of us than I do about getting them to agree with my analysis of fictional characters. 😆
It kind of shows. With who you choose to highlight. Because this fandom acts like s2 was about Edwina and not Kate. But then even some of the producers and showrunners were openly bias towards the actress and have openly called Kate the other woman, prositute and harlot. So not surprising the fans are using the same language.
@@crimeandmore2872 I wouldn't be too quick to believe a lot of what they said the "producers and showrunners" said tho... A lot of the time they cherrypick and take what cast and crew say out of context to use it as tool to bully cast and crew with...