Intereresting! I Love These Schindler Motors! Good Job! In Germany Normal Houses have a 3 Phase Power Supply for Like Cooking to keep the load per phase as minimum as possible. The main voltage ist 400 V/AC then. On an single phase is at 230 V/AC.
Yeah in Germany its always 3 phase at the 1st junction box with the 60A fuses, after that it is either 1 phase or 3 phase. In my house its 3 phase for every apartment, but sadly in the 2nd floor the phase has only 60 to 72 volts, all other apartments are fine on the blue phase.
Where I live, it's actually quite common for private houses to have 3-phase power. I know some people even wire different rooms in their houses to different phases to split the load instead of just using a single phase for everything.
In my country it depends on the total power that the house will consume. You can also bend this rule if you say that you need three phase for something like a motor. The downside is that the minimum bill, that is the amount you pay even if you not consuming any power (just to be connected on the grid) will increase for a three phase installation.
3 phases would mean 415volts or something much higher than 240. So not sure how your houses are wired but are you sure that when you buy a oven for a house, it isnt 240v? It should be the electricity company that manages any load balance between the phases by deciding which house goes to which phase.
mrmattandmrchay Remember it’s 415v between phases but still 230v phase to neutral. So cookers and the like have a big 5 pin plug with 3 phases, neutral and ground. The hot plates and ovens are spread between the different phases and neutral, so only 230v across each.
Serbia,Croatia,Montenegro,Kosovo,Albania,Macedonia,Bosnia & Herzegovina have three phases power supply like in Germany.Fuses,socket’s etc. are all German standard.Nominal voltage is 220V/380V old and new 230V/400V.Only big appliance use three phase power supply all other use single phase.And old David Pajic DAKA (Yugoslavian elevator manufacturer) are Schindler based elevators.
My guess on the last video about what the motor in the cabinet was for was correct. :) 0:45 Reverse phase rotation can be disastrous. If the lift is intended to go up, but goes down instead, any switches tripped in the downward travel will be to no avail since the control circuit(s) are expecting an upward switch to be tripped, resulting in the lift to keep running down. Depending on the design of the control wiring and limit switches involved, the lift could potentially lower all the way to the pit and the lift motor would keep running.
@@pineappleroad Landing locks are NOT safety switches and are NEVER wired in the same circuit as limits stop switches etc. Safety circuit comes first with connection back to the control panel then locks are wired independently.
I found it interesting that the traffic lights in your demonstration of a car going in reverse are the same as in Germany whereas the light goes from red to yellow with both lit at the same time, and then goes to green! I wish ours were like that here in Canada where the people at the red light who fell asleep in the meantime are warned ahead of time to get ready to go the second the light turns green, because most drivers here have the reaction time of 5 or more seconds before they get going after the light had been green!
perhaps, but I guess there would be other protection against that. That overload device from the previous video perhaps, that heats up then opens the circuit as a shut-off. Not sure, but perhaps the main motor has a thermo device to prevent a complete overheat.
@@mrmattandmrchay In a phase loss, it’ll prevent the lift motor’s overload protection from becoming a factor at all. Therefore, to my mind, it does function as the first-line safety device in that case. (Because in my humble opinion, you really really really don’t want to rely on the motor’s protection, ever; if that trips, that’s a sign of trouble way beyond a power supply issue.)
All OTIS controllers are fitted with their own version of protection against phase loss or reversal. In the old relay controllers it was designated the J switch. There are, of course, now newer versions but the older engineers still refer to them as the "J switch".
my works good lift suffered a phase loss the other day well i was in it not a fun time also my work just took out a 1980s good lift and it is the process ofreplacing it with a modden one if it anything like the other new one we have it will suck
It might not be as fast or technically advanced but old stuff just feckin' *_works_* and its built to last. The lift in the video is over 40 years old and still works just as well now as when it was new. A modern cheaply made lift won't last 40 years.
Mark P Modern technology _can_ be much better than the old things. It’s just a matter of whether the manufacturer wants to make their product robust. Less robust = more sales ( televisions, vacuum cleaners ). But often when it comes to human safety they engineer the modern technology all the way through. Like the fly-by-wire airplanes. So it’s more the mindset of the company that make modern technology break fast, than the modern technology itself.
Hi, yes, but only if I'm travelling somewhere as part of my job. For example, if I'm visiting a customer in France, then I'd definitely have a look around to find some. But travelling to another country "just" to film lifts - uhm, nope!
Actually, I know a few things, but a lot of content I've had some help from lift engineers and I've researched them on the net, understood them to the best of my ability to make a video on them. I'm not a lift engineer, but I am in an engineering technical position which helps, but a different industry.
these days ...... www.manomano.co.uk/latching-relays-and-contactors-for-consumer-unit-2117?model_id=17461996&g=1&referer_id=686945&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkNai98q26QIViK3tCh3C_ww3EAkYBiABEgJTaPD_BwE
You can buy this kind of motor even today. www.sew-eurodrive.de/products/motors/ac_motors/torque_motors_drm/torque_motors_drm.html It still has some special uses as it seems.
uhm, not quite lol! The pizza was just 'my sense of humour' for 'the people in the lift are now trapped' because the lift didn't detect it was going backwards (phases mixed up affecting direction of lift) and it hit the shaft final limit switch - this shut the lift down. Result, pizza is burnt! This is why you need a Phase Loss or Reversal detector, to prevent people getting trapped and then the pizza will be out of the oven in time (if this makes sense!!)
Yes. Anyway. Sorry for the pizza fixation. I understand what the motor does. The other two methods you showed seem more intricate but frankly I'd rather see a motor inside a cabinet. Just something about it appeals to me more. I hope no one decides to update that system. It should be protected. A heritage lift!
Every private household also gets those 3 phases instead of one, so it's not true what you show... Even a simply oven in the kitchen or a water boiler runs on 3 phases... The 3 phases get thru a fuse and distribution panel in the house and the 240 volts are between Neutral and one of the phases rails secured by a line fuse...
Perhaps in your country. Three phases ARE supplied into houses here but only upon request, and they have to serve a purpose (i.e. a house running industial machines requiring them). Not sure if this is a chargable service, I guess it would be as it would require a lot of work delivering the extra phases into a house. So here in the UK, the only cables I've ever seen inside a house near the electricity cupboard is a neutral, earth and live. It's generally a SWA cable - ours in an older one with two cores, and the earth is part of the shield around the cable. So 3 Phases here are not supplied into houses here in the UK, even for ovens and boilers (both 240v)
It really differs per country. Here in The Netherlands it differs per household. most houses have 3 phases supplied, but only 1 is actually in use. You can call the network operator to have that changed, they will replace fuses and connect the remaining two phases. You have to pay an installation fee and a monthly fee (higher 'vastrecht') as well.
Had a few messages on this now. It would appear that some newer houses have the three phases supplied, but as per prescan7000's message, only one is connected to create the 240vac supply. All food for the brain!
It varies per country, in North America yes, I recall that there's 3 phases going to the homes, but in Europe it's vastly different. I know in my country 3phase wiring for homes isn't avaliable, save for a few edge cases (heavy machinery requiring 3ph, heat pumps and whatnot), it used to be more common in the past but now since the 90's single phase is the de facto standard for common houses. AFAIK the two other phases are supplied, but they are most of the time either routed to other houses or just left floating (=unconnected). It's a mess.
In my previous appartment in NL i had only one phase. But it was good enough for a 3-pit induction stove and oven. In my current home in Belgium i have 3 phases, and the oven and ceramic stove are indeed connected to it. But i still don’t really feel the actual need for it. It’s a nice luxury to have anyway. But if this house in Belgium had only one phase i would have been equally fine with it.
Intereresting!
I Love These Schindler Motors!
Good Job!
In Germany Normal Houses have a 3 Phase Power Supply for Like Cooking to keep the load per phase as minimum as possible.
The main voltage ist 400 V/AC then. On an single phase is at 230 V/AC.
Yeah in Germany its always 3 phase at the 1st junction box with the 60A fuses, after that it is either 1 phase or 3 phase. In my house its 3 phase for every apartment, but sadly in the 2nd floor the phase has only 60 to 72 volts, all other apartments are fine on the blue phase.
Excellent video. Love the 3-phase motor used for phase rotation reversal.
Thanks :) yeah nice idea and its not even warm to the touch.
Where I live, it's actually quite common for private houses to have 3-phase power. I know some people even wire different rooms in their houses to different phases to split the load instead of just using a single phase for everything.
Same here. I live in flat in apartment complex and each flat have 3-phase power.
YEP !!! Never seen a single phase house !!! 3 Phases are important for the load balance ...
In my country it depends on the total power that the house will consume. You can also bend this rule if you say that you need three phase for something like a motor. The downside is that the minimum bill, that is the amount you pay even if you not consuming any power (just to be connected on the grid) will increase for a three phase installation.
3 phases would mean 415volts or something much higher than 240. So not sure how your houses are wired but are you sure that when you buy a oven for a house, it isnt 240v? It should be the electricity company that manages any load balance between the phases by deciding which house goes to which phase.
mrmattandmrchay Remember it’s 415v between phases but still 230v phase to neutral. So cookers and the like have a big 5 pin plug with 3 phases, neutral and ground. The hot plates and ovens are spread between the different phases and neutral, so only 230v across each.
Serbia,Croatia,Montenegro,Kosovo,Albania,Macedonia,Bosnia & Herzegovina have three phases power supply like in Germany.Fuses,socket’s etc. are all German standard.Nominal voltage is 220V/380V old and new 230V/400V.Only big appliance use three phase power supply all other use single phase.And old David Pajic DAKA (Yugoslavian elevator manufacturer) are Schindler based elevators.
amazing i always learn new things about lifts with your videos!
That was very informative and interesting (as always!), thank you.
My guess on the last video about what the motor in the cabinet was for was correct. :)
0:45 Reverse phase rotation can be disastrous. If the lift is intended to go up, but goes down instead, any switches tripped in the downward travel will be to no avail since the control circuit(s) are expecting an upward switch to be tripped, resulting in the lift to keep running down. Depending on the design of the control wiring and limit switches involved, the lift could potentially lower all the way to the pit and the lift motor would keep running.
Absolutely! :)
@@pineappleroad Landing locks are NOT safety switches and are NEVER wired in the same circuit as limits stop switches etc. Safety circuit comes first with connection back to the control panel then locks are wired independently.
Another excellent premiere and video!
Cool, glad you enjoyed it!
This is extremely interesting, thank you for posting, sharing, and educating, i enjoyed watching!!!!!!!!!
Really interesting - thanks!
Cool, success on my part :)
I found it interesting that the traffic lights in your demonstration of a car going in reverse are the same as in Germany whereas the light goes from red to yellow with both lit at the same time, and then goes to green!
I wish ours were like that here in Canada where the people at the red light who fell asleep in the meantime are warned ahead of time to get ready to go the second the light turns green, because most drivers here have the reaction time of 5 or more seconds before they get going after the light had been green!
It's in use pretty much everywhere in Europe but annoyingly not much outside of it for some reason.
Very eloquently put young matt.
Ah thanks Pete! Thanks for the help by the way, sorry forgot to credit you (will add you to the description now)
Hi, I really like your video, your explication and views on images is very interessant :D
very nice elevator, nice motor sound and nice video!
So it also functions as a safety device, like preventing the motor from burning and causing a fire?
perhaps, but I guess there would be other protection against that. That overload device from the previous video perhaps, that heats up then opens the circuit as a shut-off. Not sure, but perhaps the main motor has a thermo device to prevent a complete overheat.
@@mrmattandmrchay In a phase loss, it’ll prevent the lift motor’s overload protection from becoming a factor at all. Therefore, to my mind, it does function as the first-line safety device in that case. (Because in my humble opinion, you really really really don’t want to rely on the motor’s protection, ever; if that trips, that’s a sign of trouble way beyond a power supply issue.)
That is a really clever way of detecting a phase loss, I would have never figured that out.
simple, but clever!
It seems like this could be done effectively and safely with electro-mechanical logic, but then again, that’s kind of what this is, with more metal.🤘
Lovely Animations are Lovely👌
Amazing!
And What does OTIS use for phase loss detector?
All OTIS controllers are fitted with their own version of protection against phase loss or reversal. In the old relay controllers it was designated the J switch.
There are, of course, now newer versions but the older engineers still refer to them as the "J switch".
Interesting as usual
thanks!
my works good lift suffered a phase loss the other day well i was in it not a fun time
also my work just took out a 1980s good lift and it is the process ofreplacing it with a modden one if it anything like the other new one we have it will suck
Yeah, old stuff always works better. Old stuff is built to last. It may not be as fast or technically advanced but it just _works_ .
I don't envy this clever solution, but thank god that now we can rely on electronic motor relays to do these functions and much more!
Modern electronics aren't always as reliable as people think, good old simplicity lasts for decades.
It might not be as fast or technically advanced but old stuff just feckin' *_works_* and its built to last. The lift in the video is over 40 years old and still works just as well now as when it was new. A modern cheaply made lift won't last 40 years.
Simon Tay Very true. This lift is actually over 50 years old! :-)
Mark P Modern technology _can_ be much better than the old things. It’s just a matter of whether the manufacturer wants to make their product robust. Less robust = more sales ( televisions, vacuum cleaners ). But often when it comes to human safety they engineer the modern technology all the way through. Like the fly-by-wire airplanes. So it’s more the mindset of the company that make modern technology break fast, than the modern technology itself.
do you also travel to other countries to visit lifts?
Hi, yes, but only if I'm travelling somewhere as part of my job. For example, if I'm visiting a customer in France, then I'd definitely have a look around to find some. But travelling to another country "just" to film lifts - uhm, nope!
When is the multi-camera video ready?
Haha the tease is real 😅
You sure know a lot about lifts and lift motors
Actually, I know a few things, but a lot of content I've had some help from lift engineers and I've researched them on the net, understood them to the best of my ability to make a video on them. I'm not a lift engineer, but I am in an engineering technical position which helps, but a different industry.
Very cool!
what will happen on 3 phase transformers when they loss one phase？
F16 I.E engine if I'm not mistake??!!
a phase failier unit ?
these days ...... www.manomano.co.uk/latching-relays-and-contactors-for-consumer-unit-2117?model_id=17461996&g=1&referer_id=686945&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkNai98q26QIViK3tCh3C_ww3EAkYBiABEgJTaPD_BwE
I like elevators mechanika.
You can buy this kind of motor even today.
www.sew-eurodrive.de/products/motors/ac_motors/torque_motors_drm/torque_motors_drm.html
It still has some special uses as it seems.
It looks like the motor in the cabinet is rated for 750V 60Hz so it will be very weak at 415V 50Hz.
Nowadays we only need a small phase detection relay XD
Yep, very small devices these days!
So that motor in the cabinet is like having a pizza oven with a timer that turns the oven off when the pizza is done.
uhm, not quite lol! The pizza was just 'my sense of humour' for 'the people in the lift are now trapped' because the lift didn't detect it was going backwards (phases mixed up affecting direction of lift) and it hit the shaft final limit switch - this shut the lift down. Result, pizza is burnt! This is why you need a Phase Loss or Reversal detector, to prevent people getting trapped and then the pizza will be out of the oven in time (if this makes sense!!)
@@mrmattandmrchay I feel for the pizza!
Yes. Anyway. Sorry for the pizza fixation. I understand what the motor does. The other two methods you showed seem more intricate but frankly I'd rather see a motor inside a cabinet. Just something about it appeals to me more. I hope no one decides to update that system. It should be protected. A heritage lift!
Every private household also gets those 3 phases instead of one, so it's not true what you show... Even a simply oven in the kitchen or a water boiler runs on 3 phases... The 3 phases get thru a fuse and distribution panel in the house and the 240 volts are between Neutral and one of the phases rails secured by a line fuse...
Perhaps in your country. Three phases ARE supplied into houses here but only upon request, and they have to serve a purpose (i.e. a house running industial machines requiring them). Not sure if this is a chargable service, I guess it would be as it would require a lot of work delivering the extra phases into a house. So here in the UK, the only cables I've ever seen inside a house near the electricity cupboard is a neutral, earth and live. It's generally a SWA cable - ours in an older one with two cores, and the earth is part of the shield around the cable. So 3 Phases here are not supplied into houses here in the UK, even for ovens and boilers (both 240v)
It really differs per country. Here in The Netherlands it differs per household. most houses have 3 phases supplied, but only 1 is actually in use. You can call the network operator to have that changed, they will replace fuses and connect the remaining two phases. You have to pay an installation fee and a monthly fee (higher 'vastrecht') as well.
Had a few messages on this now. It would appear that some newer houses have the three phases supplied, but as per prescan7000's message, only one is connected to create the 240vac supply. All food for the brain!
It varies per country, in North America yes, I recall that there's 3 phases going to the homes, but in Europe it's vastly different.
I know in my country 3phase wiring for homes isn't avaliable, save for a few edge cases (heavy machinery requiring 3ph, heat pumps and whatnot), it used to be more common in the past but now since the 90's single phase is the de facto standard for common houses.
AFAIK the two other phases are supplied, but they are most of the time either routed to other houses or just left floating (=unconnected). It's a mess.
In my previous appartment in NL i had only one phase. But it was good enough for a 3-pit induction stove and oven. In my current home in Belgium i have 3 phases, and the oven and ceramic stove are indeed connected to it. But i still don’t really feel the actual need for it. It’s a nice luxury to have anyway. But if this house in Belgium had only one phase i would have been equally fine with it.
Wrong phase colours lol.........so easy to confuse with new colours :-)
Not really the point...
I was just going to mention this, I see MrMatt possibly does not approve of the new BS7671 colours! :D lol