You His Mommy, He Your Daddy: Narcissist’s Mixed Signals
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2020
- Narcissists sexualize intimacy (sexual overperception)
Example of family with mixed sexual signals:
Mother's family - men and women - are all asexual, father's side are all promiscuous.
Or …
Father's attitude to sex as dirty and all women as whores. Mother was subtly incestuous.
Example of ambient, emotional incest: she reacts to the child’s compliments or insults regarding her appearance as a lover would.
The narcissist can be with a woman in one of two ways:
1. As an asexual child with his mother (long-term life partner); or
2. As a promiscuous but stern father with a disposable slut to be sexually despoiled and verbally abused (disciplined).
When the narcissist loves a woman as he had loved his mother, as a long-term intimate partner (he always loves women as a child loves his mother), he renders himself asexual, so as to avoid incest.
When he desires a throwaway woman, like his promiscuous father did, he transforms himself into her stern disciplinarian father: he hates and fears the woman, he sadistically despoils, torments, taunts, frustrates, and abuses her in every way, and he pushes her away, often towards other men (partly to reaffirm his view of women and for the other shoe to drop).
The narcissist fantasizes not about sex but about humiliating, trashing, despoiling, and degrading the woman, alone or with others (in group sex). He is a sexual sadist.
Given the opportunity and consent, the narcissist sexually "assaults" the submissive partner. Conventional sex leads his ultimately to boredom and ED (erectile dysfunction). He uses even group sex merely to despoil and humiliate the female.
The narcissist is to women what a pedophile is to children: sadistic monster.
DIVERGENT EXPECTATIONS
Women cannot reconcile true intimacy and love with the narcissist’s objectifying, despoiling, and sadistic sex. The former preclude for them the latter.
STAGE I: INDULGING HIM SEXUALLY
At first - when the attachment and bonding between us are minimal - women consensually indulge the narcissist sexually.
This amplifies and solidifies his own attachment to and bonding with the woman.
STAGE II: CUTTING OFF HIS KIND OF SEX
The women then get attached and bonded and they demand to revert to conventional intimate sex. They refuse to continue to have the narcissist’s kind of sex.
STAGE III: SEXLESSNESS
At this point, the narcissist develops sex aversion or even ED and the relationship is rendered increasingly sexless and disintimate.
The narcissist’s attachment and bonding weaken: he begins to regard the relationship as a chore and the woman as a nuisance because he is not getting his sexual needs and desires met.
STAGE IV: CHEATING or BREAKUP
The narcissist is still attached and bonded and refuses to let go of the woman or set her free, despite her desperate attempts to break up (erotomanic stalking).
Women either stay with him (for material reasons), render services, but are free to cheat on him serially and indiscreetly; or women triangulate ostentatiously in order to terminate his stalking.
He is forced to choose between loveless sex and sexless love and in both cases endure mortifying betrayal
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"Better to be with a broken heart than no heart at all." Makes painful sense
Move yourself
You always live your life
Never thinking of the future
Prove yourself
You are the move you make
Take your chances, win or loser
See yourself
You are the steps you take
You and you, and that's the only way
Shake, shake yourself
You're every move you make
So the story goes
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
(Much better than a)
Owner of a broken heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Say, you don't want to chance it
You've been hurt so before
Watch it now
The eagle in the sky
How he dancin' one and only
You, lose yourself
No not for pity's sake
There's no real reason to be lonely
Be yourself
Give your free will a chance
You've got to want to succeed
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
(Much better than a)
Owner of a broken heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
After my own indecision
They confused me so
Owner of a lonely heart
My love said never question your will at all
In the end you've got to go
Look before you leap
Owner of a lonely heart
And don't you hesitate at all, no no
Yow!
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
(Much better than a)
Owner of a broken heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
(Much better than a)
Owner of a broken heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
Sooner or later each conclusion
Will decide the lonely heart
Owner of a lonely heart
It will excite, it will delight
It will give a better start
Owner of a lonely heart
Don't deceive your free will at all
Don't deceive your free will at all
Owner of a lonely heart
Don't deceive your free will at all
Just receive it
Just receive it
(Owner of a lonely heart)
better a whoops than a what if?
I feel it. ❤️
By gosh it's true !!!!
"You can not be sadistic with an equal partner".. That explains a lot. "Ey you look quiet confident today. Let's find a way to get rid of THAT!"
"Don't rush or the desert will swallow you". . . That gave me chills
I put up with this for 7 years. Hoping, praying, waiting, begging, believe there was hope. He gave me just enough (lies) to keep me holding on. The only difference was my ex narc bf never asked me for sadistic sex. The only comment he made about sex was he liked it “rough” but did not elaborate. He had ED from early in the relationship. I thought it was because he was older than me but it should not have been that bad. Do not waste your time!! They are sick sick people and completely unable to satisfy a woman. Mine was a horrible kisser and not good in bed anyway. But I was absolutely malignantly hopeful and did everything I could think of it be the best for him. I finally saw the light and I watch these videos and am so furious that I put up with his bs all those years. Everything Dr Sam has said here is absolutely true. No one is worth losing your sanity over.
@spooky katt Don't go down that road. It's just more of the same thinking that kept you with him for so long.
YOU did not cause his ED because of YOU his ED happens because of HIS PERCEPTION of YOU.
Same with all the other shit we all go went through with these zombies. There was NOTHING wrong with me bringing her flowers or wanting to make love to every inch of her or talk to her or have her attention or expect to have a real conversation or reply to a meaningful text or words or flirt with me or any number of ABSOLUTELY NORMALLY INTERACTION between two people in a romantic relationship or a close relationship PERIOD.
IT WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE HER AND YOUR X MANS PERCEPTION and distortion of the beautiful characteristics of your personality.
I felt the same shame. My God am I gross or ugly or whatever discussing thoughts their rejection produced in us. But it's not true it's only true to THEM.
Every other "normal" woman sees me as the man I am or at the very least AS A MAN. She made me feel like a freak.
Mine never wanted to kiss and sex was boring. He forbid me to say to make love- it was just sex. And he had his mothers picture framed on the table on the side of bed. Felt like she was watching us when we had sex.
I was 16 years in before i found answers..
Laura af Ursin O my God! Creepy.
This actually made me cry, realizing this is exactly my marriage-beginning to end!
Dr. Vaknin, I am learning more from you that 7 years of psychiatric residency/fellowships, my own analysis and 22 years of practice.
WOW!!! It's like never getting to that oasis because it doesn't exist.It's an illusion...
I feel like Sam WAS a fly on the wall of my bedroom 😹😹😹😹 daymn!
Very True, my ex fractured my nose , threatened me and my family 4years with him, long story short I left him 1 year ago and he is currently in hiding from the law he did not follow his probation rules and of course he is on probation for fracturing my nose and blamed it all on me that i aggravated him. As always everything was my fault. I never understood what was wrong with him , i had never experienced anything like this before , towards the end I looked at him one day and said you act like a child..well this whole year ive been trying to educate myself on this and I have to say Im very thankful I came across your videos everythinf you say and describe was my life for 4yrs. I feel i was the mother role towards the end , i cooked, cleaned , comforted him, reminded him of his medicines, Im a nurse so i guess he hit the jackpot with me, and for the last 2yrs we never had sex always an excuse. Thank you for your videos and the resources you provide.
This is just amazing! This is EXACTLY what I witnessed and experienced. He was obsessed with sex workers . His parents displayed the exact behavior you described. I was mother. To him. This is amazing that there is a rhyme and reason to this. I’ve been gone almost 2 years no contact for 6 months and in the midst of a divorce from a evil person. I’m so thankful I escaped after 20 years and three children. I’m thankful every day.
I’m 4 months in this is the worst feeling ever smh 🤦♀️
Thank you Sam for this video. It summarizes my relationship with a man I suspected to be a covert narcissist. I really didn't understand that was going on during the relationship. But your words helped me comprehend what took place. This is spot on, even down to the incestuous nature of the son/mother relationship. It's weird how it all unfolded, just as you outlined. In the end I left because I didn't want to be his mother in a sexless relationship with no intimacy. Keep giving these talks!
This is exactly what happened to me as a child, 34 now. Being an only child compounds the impact of the pathology. Dad died about a year ago. Watching my mother decompensate and disintegrate has been almost scary. I will not allow this emotional incest to regress me. I can already feel the reputation destruction happening. But in so many ways I feel healthier than ever. Thank you Mr. Vaknin. I am a frequent listener and could not have navigated this territory without your guidance.
So true doctor I believe that my ex narc was molested by his mother. There were certain things he told me that were extremely inappropriate. I believe that’s the reason he became a narcissist.
Mine said he was made to polish her toenails
Weird
Mine used to have to massage her feet, and allowed him to run around the house naked until 9 or 10 I think....
I noticed that now, she cuddles with her 6y.o. grandson quite often, and whenever I used to go over there while she was "watching" him, he was naked /: that part seemed at least partly like a neglect thing, and maybe also a way of gaining favor over his mother by having no rules whatsoever at her house....
.-.
@@afireinhearts1302 please report to CPS
Mine was molested when he was 4 by his mother😢
My ex narcs mother died. Every woman paid for that. Punishment was a theme for him. Did everything and still not good enough. Never good enough. Always circled back to punishment.
It’s like you been in my home! I couldn’t explain the horrors I feel like he should be in jail! I’m in tears right now my tummy is hurting 😭 nobody knew but you just said everything!!!! Definitely stage 4
Dear . . . Think of you finding this video as a blessing . . . Or a ray of hope . . . Pack your bags slowly . . . Disappear slowly . . .
@@VTUL92 crazy because it’s been a year! I feel like a brand new person had to get a restraining order (5 years)
#sugarcoatedtears
After reading R.Greene’s books I also thought so. A complete manual at becoming a Machiavellianist, N or P. Kind of terrifying...
I was the submissive mother type non intimate/sex object. Looking back just couldn't figure out the Game. Thank You for clarity.
Same here. I just didn't know it. We were together as the typical love bomb etc, then after a several years we became 'friends' apparently... nothing had changed except we didn't have sex anymore, but like you said it wasn't great in bed, and kissing wasn't always good either. I felt something off way in the beginning but I overlooked it.
What a waste of time. 18 yrs that should have been my best years.
I was also the submissive Mamma to him......no sex but sometimes used me for his masterbation purposes.
No way would he ever initiate intercourse not with me anyway.
Enjoyed me driving him around and rescuing him.......like a teenage son would accept he was 45years old.
Peter Pan.
I was older and i finally got fed up with this strange entanglement.
Never again.
Was it anyone else’s experience that he cheated with other women, sometimes younger while he treated you with deference as the mother figure? I found out later that there were other women. If I came to him with suspicions of infidelity, he would gas light me about it and deny it. If I tried to be intimate and hug him he stiffened and balled up as a beaten animal would especially if I held him. No kissing ever. No cuddling in an intimate way. Yet he seemed to be very attached to me and enjoyed my prefer my companionship. He finally “arranged” for a threesome with a friend. Apparently he was grooming her for this, unknown to me. I said no and ended things. I had had enough. I just feel bewildered and confused and he was just furious at both of us.
Pardon me just for knowledge I have a question did your narcissist ever sexually abused your kid?
my ex does exactly what his parents did that he hated. when i remind him, he gets mad and take it as an attack. he was doing it to me and he doesn't care. if i say exactly what he say about his mom or dad, he would tell me not to talk about his parents like that. when i tell him that that's what he said about them, he would tell me that he never said that. i was like, i know i'm not crazy and i remember exactly what he said.
You described my ex, minus this part about threesome. He's totally against me having anyone, even now when we are divorced, while he is okay for hunting on next victim.
I thought he would settle down at some point. Hoping against hope. The sex was awful from the beginning. I thought as we got closer with time it would grow and get better. I thought relationships grew. But not with them. They can’t grow.
Prof. Sam, you are so on the ball regarding this empath title! It's announced with such grandiosity!! 🤣 X
I cannot believe how this has played out over the past yr...
Thank u Sam. Your work and advise is extremely valuable and will help many for years to come. Been following your work for the past year. You gave me back my sanity and I will forever be grateful and thankfull for your work. It is so heartbreaking and sad to see how these ppl struggle to understand themself. I feel so sad and upset. Where was the help for them when they were abused... would it have made them more human. It's much better to have a heart than to be a walking zombie...life is for the living. All the best, may you be blessed.
I had to listen to the last 5 min 4 times - really applied to me and my situation. Wow you are gold Sam. Thank you for your time. I am so grateful I found you. You are better than therapy 10000 percent.
This description/video is spot on. Truly unbelievable.
Ooooooooh my god you explained my husband of almost 32 years, he has done all of the above and for the last 23 years i have been only the mother , roommate and business partner and for the last 2 weeks he has called my friends and has told them that i have another lover which I didn’t care and yesterday he was crying and begging me to come back which i am NOT , i just want divorce and be free of his abuse ❤️❤️❤️❤️ thank you very much for a fantastic video
Thanks to you, Sam Vaknin, I can now understand why my father lashed out in a sadistic way when I was playing around as an 11-year old girl, warm with budding emotions. He crushed me like a mosquito using a mean demeaning word and undermined my natural femininity, because he feared it.
OMG… Sam thats briliant! 100% harsh truth 👏
This has been a play by play of my relationship. As always, very enlightening.
So ACCURATE this information my dear Profesor..loveeeee your videosssss about the NARC..great job..thank u so muchhhhhhhhh..
somehow he describes my childhood environment... Sex is taboo and dirty... Yet I was born because my mom and dad just hooked up in a party got married in a few months... separated after 15years of failed and unhealthy marriage... My mom is a narc... A grandiose Narc that vacillates to Covert Narc when time is rough... Now grown up... building myself as a grown man... I felt I am rob of my childhood... I am separated now to her and discovering myself... Somehow I notice I have traces of narcissistic trait... Atleast 6years I am studying Narcissistic and Personality Disorder just to understand myself, my family and how I became like this... Somehow I find peace in understand and labeling the my past experiences... I do believe it will benefit my future...
You just described my situation. That is exactly how it was. Even to the childhood trauma with an overbearing mother and a overly strict father and no affection. He said his overbearing mother scared him once when he was little in a tent playing with his little neighbor friend and his mom opened it and his hand was going up the little girl's leg too close for comfort and his mom pulled him out there and told him that was dirty, humiliated him and told him he was going to get sick and the girl had bad things there and he said this is why his sexuality was strange. This was said once when he was withdrawing sex from me and I kept asking what was wrong, he was acting almost like he was disgusted by vaginas. I think he was just getting pleasure from frustrating me and denying me.
Yeah, they play all kind of games to pull your tail. We all experienced hurt, shame etc as a child, no one is free of it. Never forget , this people are adult now.
Sam Vaknin said it best here. The dismantled radio. Thanks Professor Vaknin! You have the right words. I got alot out of this video, I can relate to alot of what he says. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Thank you for the video. I really appreciate it.
My Narcissist and I were first best friends and very close. When we moved into a more intimate relationship everything went wrong because he had a guilty conscience- how could he want me when he felt we were as close as if I were his sister or some of his family. Intervals of desire and disgust alternated. Does anyone have similar situation?
Reading Robert Green these days. Interesting, from the angle of interesting stories worth reading, but sometimes contradictory Especially in 48 strategies of war
thx for all of your videos
Never realized I was a threat to my ex-husband. Okay so the bdsm sadistic masochist relationship we had was ideal for him...But I used it to help me heal from past trauma. He couldn't stand the pain threshold I had nor the fact I was actually more dominant than him. I agreed to be submissive not forced. His idea of fun was if I was too drunk or if I had a bad panic attack and was heavily medicated. Last therapist said my whole marriage was basically date rape. I thank you for your video's. These are helping me understand why certain men are attracted to me and I to them.
Im in the same pattern. Crazy hate it.
Man....U Nailed it
Yes..Don't Rush or the Dessert will Swallow You... exactly
Why does micromanaging and extreme violent jealousy happen in stage 4 if he wanted nothing to do with me romantically? He said I was not his partner but the chain around my neck was in his hands.
Thank you
thank you
Okay, needs and an inordinate amount of attention, frequently dresses down women publicly both at work and even in situations like restaurants waitresses excetera. Derives pleasure from making women cry. If you supply admiration and submission , he Rewards . If you disagree or deny admiration, Supply, he withdraws ghost for a few days.. seems to be extremely dependent on me for supply,calls me out in meetings (for example)to pump up his business prowess but gets angry and debases if there's even a hint of disagreement with him . Becomes attentive if I withhold contact for a few days.
Also frequently addresses men in positions of power (like himself) with challenge and
disdain. Flirts frequently,promises rewards but seems to be completely asexual.
Uhh..I'm confused,what exactly does this man want? Thank God for your videos Sam, they've been a sort of "lifeline " to begin to understand what is happening to me in this dynamic and begin the extradition process out of this black hole.
Sam, you are always medicine to the soul. I always refused group sex hints and i hope i can still refuse, even if I fall in love again
SHe calls him "MY DADDY!!!" it's really sad and disgusting.
I always said narcissist is like supernova and borderline like black hole
They have a king sized bed, which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too large for them!! They keep bags of unopened cat litter in the bed, because want to stay miles apart from each other. My sister and her husband MUSSOLINI, hate each other soooooooooooo much they have to keep artificial products in their bed, in order to build a wall between them!! She thinks this is ok! He makes tons of $$$$$$$$, that SHE has NO access to. She waits for him to let her spend HIS MONEY!
I hope she's gotten away by now.
I absolutely appreciate you taking time to post your knowledge of narcissism. I have been seeking to understand every inch of this topic. Yes because I have discovered that I am one of those “codependency” people. Even codependents get sick over the thought of being so gullible to the situations WE put ourselves into. Many times o have said “why the hell do I keep doing this to myself.” Truth be told I believe it’s a form of narcissism its self. I’m not doctor I’m posing a question and hoping for your expert knowledge on the topic. I think this, narcs create situations that cause reactions that pleasure and sooth their wounds and gratify their desires. Codependent (myself) also choose to create situations that sooth and please their wounds these creating a loop of repeated patterns creating the same outcomes. Does this create a mask in the codependent, masking wounds in order to keep control just like the narc. Is it possible that codependency is a mask of narcissism?
Is it possible yo search this channel before you waste my time?
Question. Can narcissist want to keep 2 motherfigures at the same time? Or is one of them always the slut?...it seems like there are somekind of fazes that overlap or something. Depending of losing old mother and getting a new one baybe. I hope my question or topic makes some sense.
Ps! Thank you for this channel.
This man’s mother (who was sexually abused) told me I was a lot like her. Is there possibly a relation with her establishing another mother for him on his behalf to care for him?
What a lecture. Waw!!!! Unbelievable!!!!
I'm speechless 🙊
I feel normal now after I heard all this.
Is it normal for him to warn me about all of this? We are 3months dating and he told me he is a narcissist and he told me his past relationships end because of loss of interest in sex & interest in “her interests” once they get settled in comfortable stage. I thought he had Asperger’s (maybe he does) but him telling me he’s a narcissist is making me worried.
Run 🏃♂️
Absolutely 💯 run 🏃♀️ 🚩
My ex narcissist with held sex from the very beginning. He would claim that he was very good at it and was hyper sexual. But when it Cosme down to it he would almost get there and then leave me without. I later thought it was an abusive control emotional and mental tactic. He always claimed it wasn’t that it was because he is fat and disgusting and just can’t be himself with the ugliness he felt he is. No amount of reassurance from me ever helped. He would also then turn it around a vehemently accused me of not being a real woman that made him feel like a man and attractive. Truth is I would beg and cry for him on a couple instances. Which is going on here?
Don't even try and figure these kinds of people out. Just run!!! Far away from them! I understand you want answers and I've searched for them also. I've finally reached the level of understanding that nothing about them make sense. So, why torture yourself trying to figure out the irrational with the rational. Free yourself by what's called radical acceptance. Just accept these people aren't who they say they are. They're deeply disturbed. They play games. They make no sense. So, just get away from them and stop driving yourself crazy trying to figure out people that don't make sense.
Happened to me. This is horrible. Self esteem plummets down so fast and it devastates. My ex was handsome and hyper sexual in his fantasy but barely could satisfy or have a lengthly intercourse. He loved jerking and loved seeing me desire him and postponing our meetings. That was sadism, i came to realise that but it took me a few years. Only validated him for this long
Sam Vaknin; picking up from where Freud left off.
Hello Sam Vaknin. Thank you for educating on these very important topics. In another video I watched you quote: Codependents/borderliners are failed narcissists (or so). May I ask for the full name of the scholar you are refering to also in this current video here in this regards?
James Grotstein.
@@samvaknin Thank you!
Is there any article/lecture on this stunted, twisted sexual impact on children of such people? I am a daughter and I feel like she (my mother) on top of that daddy/mommy relationship with my enabler father whom I suspect is a doormat narcissist, she treated me as a source of some sexual gratification- as if she needed me to sexually not become an independent entity so I could be her “phantom”, kind of a non physical castration, purity abuse but waay more sick and deeper - she used moral defence and my complementary moral defence to achieve my total sexual “suicide”. And she clearly wanted to feel sanctied because she produced sexualityless daughter (catholic fanaticism). On the other hand she would destroy my feelings of being in love to anyone she didn’t seem like she would be attracted to, and she was fostering anxiety in me so I could only feel safe if I rejected my feelings and chose to date guys she would choose for me (and she would clearly be enthusiastic about them in a strange way)It was going on for 30 years, including forced and policed celibacy.I was also meant to feel very pretty but as well she would put a lot of emphasis that I always wear a make up and in general so she would be sure that I look attractive. Makes my feel like I’m loosing my mind as I can’t even understand what happened to me.
So.. if the narcissist doesn’t have sex with his partner does the partner ever want sex to be intimate??? Or does the partner just accept a non sexual relationship??
Listen to the video before you waste everyone’s time.
Yes you covered my question...I jumped the gun. Thanks for your knowledge
Why would you want to make it work? Stepping out is cheating where I come from. How can cheating ever restore self-esteem?
Sam Vaknin oh my question was not about me at all. It was about someone I know who is living with a narcissist
@samvaknin
Can you make a video on the topic of narcissist dating a narcissist?
Is it possible, is it recommended, will it work in the long term?
samvak.tripod.com/faq60.html
Sam Vaknin thank you
My ex believes if a woman is in a bad mood she wants sex lol
All men believe that
Dr Sam, my question is, why does the narcissist want to degrade the woman in sexual acts?
Is it a subconscious way of penalising his mother or is it just part of his makeup as a narcissist to control a woman?
samvak.tripod.com/faq79.html
@@samvaknin Thank you
Since you talked of daddy issues...how to resolve them....
Therapy.
@@samvaknin what do you think of emdr?
I see wht you did there 😂
Can be his sister instead of his mother? I suspect...
If she fulfilled a maternal role in his life - then, yes.
Thank you.. Your words break my naive mindset 🙏🙏🙏
My ex fits in all covert somatic narcissist,but he is so crazy for sex that he can even fuck a guy!! He is interested in all type of sex even casual sex...!!! What type of narc am I dealing with?! Or is it even a narc or phycopath!?
Watch the videos in the playlist "The Narcissist's Sexuality" on this channel.
@@samvaknin thank you professor.
Alot are in the closet
I don’t understand why bdsm is bad. I enjoy it very much with my Narc. I loved to be treated like trash during sex. And he enjoys doing it. We’ve been doing it for 3 years. He does intimate sex sometimes but mostly we do bdsm sex. It’s the only time I feel good during sex. I feel fantastic when I am objectified by him. I am addicted to it. I do want to be loved and held and all that but with him it will never be.