What It Cost To Overhaul A Cessna 172 Engine
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- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2020
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A lot of you guys have been asking about airplane maintenance. Today we are going through the inside work of a 1961 Cessna 172 with Ricardo Foster. His plane features the Continental O-300 engine that is currently in the shop. Ricardo is also planning to upgrade the panels of his airplane with Garmin IFR avionics. Learn about the cost, history, upkeep and plans for this bird.
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That fella gets a big shout out from me for showing us his airplane and letting us know what his overhaul will cost. Thank you
Thank you!
I love realism of ownership videos like this. Everybody presents the fantasy aspect but this guy keeps it completely real!
Thanks for your positive comment! If I’m Tampa Bay, look is up. Www.infinityaeroclub.org
Dude lives In his airpark! That is beyond awesome!
I've been looking at houses ON an Airpark. Lots to think about.
Ricardo's transparency about all cost involved and your excellent questions made this video an excellent one to watch. Thank you for sharing. Maybe it's time for a re-visit to Ricardo for and update and more about living at an Airpark?
I want to know more about living on an airfield!
I lived from 0 till age 6 in a caravan on a training airfield where future airforce pilots were trained and selected . If I had to live in the USA I would go for living on an airfield living between planes.
In the USA? Mainly in Florida? You MUST have a wallet about 6 inches thick. I've looked through the fences that surround these "Home/Airport/with runway" facilities. HUGE bucks. Money talks and BS walks. Always that way.
@@mmichaeldonavon As child I never thought about money nor how thick my father's wallet was. And it was his knowledge what talked . What could I do with money without shops LOL .
Hit me up when you get a chance Chris!
Bring your wallet. When I'm in Florida, I love to look through the chain link fences at the homes, with attached hangars, etc. Lovely it is.
Ricardo, you mention wanting to keep the standard six pack and adding an autopilot coupled to your nav unit. If you haven't thought of it, this is what I did. I have a 69 182 M, so similar enough. I upgraded my standard six pack instruments to two G5's and the gfc500 autopilot coupled to them and a GTN 750 nav unit. My good friend did the same with a GTN 650. You can't go wrong either way (not dissing Avedyne or others, just not as familiar). I kept the standard six pack configuration with one G5 filling in the place of the AI and the other filling the space of the DG/HSI right below it. I kept the airspeed indicator, altimeter, VSI, and turn co-ordinator, so even though all that info is on the G5, I can still scan like I used to and it's nice to have the redundancy. This was very economical (ha ha, when is a plane economical, but it is relative other options) It is an amazingly capable plane now. A rock solid IFR single pilot platform. The best part is I was able to get rid of my vacuum system with this configuration. Something to consider if you haven't already. Good on you for restoring a good old bird. It will be a treasure when you get it done. All the best.
Thanks for this Erik. I’m putting in the Avidyne 440 which is a robust unit for this aircraft and a remote transponder, with GPS and ILS foe starters. Nice avionics in your aircraft and a total game changer when considering IFR. Thanks and look us up when in Tampa at www.infinityAeroclub.com
Regards,
Ricardo
Very cool info! Thanks for sharing Mike and Ricardo
You’re welcome!
A gift from Mojogrip?!? Merry Christmas, Mike.
Great interview! I really appreciate your guest's willingness to discuss the details. This is awesome info and something I rarely hear. He's living my Air Park dream 😁.
That real good information. Also, Hangar and the house? Perfect combination.......
True Ben. I was looking to have such environment too
Way beyond my means as a teacher here in Mexico,but most definitely an inspiration. Once again I can pick up on the aviation community"s generally very positive vibe and plus I like all the technical stuff as well. Cool video, y ...¡una chulada de Cessna...un clásico! Saludos desde MMGL...
That is what you call CLEAN!
Thanks for the video. Nice to see the realistic price of an overhaul!
Great info, thank you. We're looking at a 1964 172F with the O-300 right now, and the engine has about 1400 hours on an 1800 hour TBO.
Merry Christmas Mike. Thanks for all your videos.
Thanks for the video Mike, always interesting people stories in them! I think this video speaks to aviation being a "love" thing rather than a "money" thing. Although it wasn't mentioned, given the original aircraft purchase price, the cost of the engine rebuild, the new panel, the new interior, there is little hope of recouping original investment, not in a (likely) high-time 60 year old bird. In my opinion we diminish the stories when we focus on money, because when you talk to pilots it is definitely not about that. This video speaks to true love of flying and love of mission ("lowering the cost of flight training"). Thanks again, and Merry Christmas!
after an engine overhaul it will have again lot of hours on it , (the engine) , should be seen as an investment in hours, same for a young plane . The plane it self looks wonderful with its original paint. If it has been stalled in a US State with dry air and private used , not for instruction with lot of touch and go's , IMHO it is definitively a plane to take care of . I would keep as much as possible in the original state.
I did an appraisal for an airpark in the Ft Myers area. Because they are unique the bank had a second appraisal done by another group. Unlike regular home appraisals there are hangers and access and low turnover... It was quite an education doing that appraisal. People that live in air parks are great! Very helpful.
I didn't see any $$ for the appraisal. What was, say, the average? You have your home - attached hangar - taxiway to the runway, that has to cost something.
@@mmichaeldonavon there is no “Average” and that was 13 years ago so no prices from then apply now. The big problem is finding comparable sales because of the huge difference caused by the amenities and hangers.
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
Loving your channel! Another great video!
i have the a 1959 cessna 172.. still smooth and working and restoring the airplane for the last 2 years.... sadly today i sold it to my friend... i have a project 182 to invest my money and my time now.. but this old 172 model are great ..
Awesome vid Mike!
I like that you put the cost in thumbnail
This is great brother we need to link us all together
Very cool. I also have a B model 172 and love it!
Very nice interview.
Thank you Kay!
Love your videos, such amazing people on here.
In the process of moving out of FL, but looking to buy an Affordable plane to learn and teach my son. These videos are a big help.
good job guys
Sleeping with your plane is a great gig Ricardo.
I smell a TV show pilot, pilot!
Excellent telling how the work needs to be done so it will fly safe.
Your videos are getting better by the hour ! Keep it up.
I have a Cessna 340a dual turboprop engine's the only person I trust is me, I do all my own work from front to back and I have for the last 15 years never had one problem ever... how fast will it go 280 miles per hour can I get 300 miles per hour top speed🚀 Why not..And I'm in my late 60s...Fun in the sun in Florida there are so many modifications where you can get more speed if you need it..🛩🛫🛬✈🚁🚀🚀🛸🛸🛩🛩
That’s Tampa North!!! 10 min away from home...
M. Alpha Sierra check us out when you get a chance! Reach out to us at Www.infinityaeroclub.org
Where you live and where your flight is often known as an airpark. Different rules apply or the lack of. Many times you have to apply and get accepted into the fold.
Awesome
That guy is like “don’t want to be on camera”
Absolutely! Not me cup of tea! Lol 😂🤣
good choice to do it right,,, your life is in the air with friends... be safe and have fun... Another Great Video...
It seems buying a new one is more practical offering much less headache. THUMBS UP to this video presentation, Mike. The video is helpful.
You're suggesting buying a new airplane because the engine is run out??? Ricardo's airplane is a 1961 model. A brand new 2020 Cessna 172 is $307,500. Do you still think it's more practical to buy new???
@@eagle2019 Understood. At least you save money from hospital bills due to "anxiety".😁
Please thank the owner.. This was informative and interesting. Excellent!
My concern in florida airplanes is corrosion . This bird does look good
Didn't the FAA a few weeks ago issue an AD on the Cessnas requiring inspection and maybe replacement of the wing support over the cabin?
This is why I became a pilot / mechanic
This is a wonderful video. Not only are we interviewing a veteran but one that owns his own airplane. I would be curious if he has any interest in doing his own maintenance or does he have any background in maintenance. Either way this is a professionally developed video.
Thanks for your video and being open i am getting into flying and i want to buy my plane.
Yes you are welcome! As Mike has shared in the past; you can get into an aircraft relatively cheap especially if it is a Cessna or Piper model for the cost of a used car from $23-28k total. Go to barnstormers or any of the trader a plane sites to see for yourself. Best of luck to you. If you have any future questions about aircraft purchases please reach me at www.infinityaeroclub.org
I'm retired from the Military/Comercial side of aviation, looking for a skypark to live and fly out of. Can you give me more info on that one in FL. thanks
Yes, reach out to me via my website at www.infinityaeroclub.org. Take care
I was wondering is it better to hone the barrels or just to go and re-tap them price wise? And while we're on the subject , what is an aircraft engineer happy to let ?/1000 inch hone down to before he or she will re-tap a cylinder bore?
Get the Lycoming engine from the OEM and the valve train is installed and cylinder bore are pre-honed.
Who was his cfi im in the tampa area and need one!
Yurell,
Hit me up at ricardoefoster@gmail.com or www.infinityaeroclub.org so we can chat about instrutora
Have higher hp 4cyl engines been TSO'd for that model 172? Do you lose something if you do that?
At some point I'll have to do something with my 0-320-H2ad (not T-modded, C-172N) when it starts showing signs. Upgrading from 160hp to 180hp means losing 10deg of flaps.
Not worth it.
Does something similar occur going from lower hp 6cyl to higher hp 4cyl?
Sir, do naturally-aspirated piston-engine aircraft tend to cause piston ring flutter when cruising at long periods at altitude with manifold pressure lower (let say 11,000 ft ISA or warmer less than 20 in Hg) of what is recommended in the POH during cruise?
Question for Ricardo.. will he be polishing those cylinders to get some extra HP out of the 145hp engine? I have heard it could take it into the 160-170hp range if done right.
No not this tine. I looked into the cost per hp increase and it didn’t make the cut.😞
Id rather spend a quarter of that on an experimental
I keep coming back to try and figure out how to buy my own plane but there are so many upkeep costs it makes it nearly impossible to sustain and get into.
damn thats a lotta bucks. gonna be out of my budget.
Maybe the bottom and top blocks of the stack under the ballast bags aren't concrete; they do look different from the other three. Difficult to see!
Great video as always!
I'm so proud to see that finally you interview a brother you should do more research about people from our community owning airplanes a big shout out for this fantastic interview it definitely motivate black people to fly
Let's calculate:The engine overhaul for 25k, annual plus some small upgrade/repair 2.5k/y. In 10 years 50k, but also flown 2000 hours TBO, so 1 hour costs $25. Form this point of view unbeatable price. Of course, the real price will be much higher.
A couple of comments... you should really consider removing the engine mount and sending it out for inspection and overhaul. These mounts are made of steel tubing and can rust from the inside out and you won't notice it until it fails. You should also consider replacing your Throttle and Mixture controls. McFarlane makes really nice replacements. It's a lot easier to replace these while the engine is out of the airplane. Does your $25,000 estimate include new/overhauled starter and alternator? What about replacement Lord mounts. You don't want to overhaul the engine and then have to do these items later down the road. I noticed a lack of Cabin door and baggage seals??? There appears to be some type of putty or sealant on the baggage door?? Are you getting water in when you fly in rain?? As for avionics you should get the newest and best that you can afford. The installation and wiring of avionics is almost as expensive as the equipment itself. You can get used avionics off of eBay and other sources. Again get the best and newest that you can afford. There are a lot of Garmin 430/530's available from people upgrading to the 650/750. The 430 makes a good radio and IFR navigator. If you can afford it get a WAAS GPS. Don't forget about ADS-B requirements. I've been a Commercial Pilot and aircraft owner for 33 years so speak from experience.
Questions: If you do buy used avionics, what has to be performed before installing them? Do they have to go to an avionics shop for any type of certification? Also, I take it that on a certified airplane, an A&P has to perform the installation, and the airplane has to be re-weighed and balanced?
@@EJWash57 There is no requirement to have used avionics go through any type of certification. An A&P can install avionics but most will not. They do not have the specialized tools or knowledge. Avionics used or new are normally installed by dedicated Avionics shops. All installations will require an update to the weight and balance sheet but it does not require the aircraft to be reweighed. It is simply a mathematic exercise. Every aircraft has a weight and balance sheet which lists every piece of equipment installed in the aircraft and where in relation to the center of gravity that equipment is installed. If equipment is removed, it's weight is subtracted and the weight of any new equipment is added and center of gravity calculations are reworked.
@@eagle2019 Thank you Eagle201. Great info!
Does the $26k include the new panel? Or is it just the overhaul?
The prices mentioned were for the engine overhaul. How much will the mechanic charge for the engine installation? You didn’t mention how much do the avionics cost to purchase and to install?
Unless you have a personal mechanic the shop charge is roughly $90 per hour for most shops.
Avionics will cost $13.5-15k on the low end with an Avidyne 440 with gps etc. An engine install depends on the complexity of the engine fir this my mechanic will charge $509-1k depending on if any issues are presented.
A HUGE number.
Hy mike
Can you make a video on eclips 500!!! Like fuel burn on different percentage of power per hour, Maintenance cost, overhaul cost.
Actually i am willing to buy that after doing a lot of research that eclips 500 is perfect for me.
But need your review on the same.
You don’t sound like you are ready for a jet if you are asking this guy for a review on it. Stop daydreaming.
@@superskullmaster what facts have you based that negetive response.. you sound like a troll/toxic person.. aviators like planes.. mojo does a lot nice videos i love the 500 as well and us aviators enjoy watching research on planes we like.. an btw there is not enough videos out there on the 500.. so you shouldnt come to a aviator channel telling people what they can or cant afford.. people of means dont do that to each other.. thats a poor mindset..
About $1972 an hour, predicated on 200 hours a year. Or, ONLY $5.73 per mile (200 hours per year). Oh, and that's after you buy it for $700K-$1.3M
www.libertyjet.com/jet-ownership-costs.aspx?jetType=Eclipse%20500
How much for a new engine?
Mike. a This is the way YOU should have gone. No Sling - No Diamond, nothing exotic. This guy is doing it right. And, he's livin' the dream - YOU can still do this. Sell the Sling, and go into a flying community, like in Florida. They have several.
Did you ask Ricardo whether he considered upgrading to an O-320 vs an O-300? (extra 10 HP)
Yes, I did look into this but the STC WAS much too expensive for what you get in return. Thanks fir asking.
You looked on RUclips to search how to remove an engine on a certified airplane!!! Was the Channel A&P/IA approved 😂😂😂 interesting way to look at FAR PART 43
Totally dark On the web when it came to this... not worried about the removal portion it’s the install that will get the FAA come running to ensure all is doing according to regs! 👍🏾🤪
That's what I was wondering.
I thought even removing an engine was beyond the scope of owner authorized maintenance.
What’s cost of brand new engine replacement?
Last known was north of 20K
If you have that plane with a new out of the crate Lycoming 180HP.. about 60-65k
@@concourcolt7527
Thanks
Please tell Ricardo that I'm a bit concerned about where he's rested the concrete ballast blocks on the the engine bearer frame without protecting the frame paint. At least that's how it looks. No doubt he'll retouch any scrape marks caused by the lowest block. I have built my own kit plane and been a military and commercial pilot over 5 decades.
Thanks for the feedback. Will be powder coating the engine mount so no worries.
Are there
Any acrobatic 172s😁👍?
NOT intentionally! 😁 Although, you can roll about anything. There is an aerobatic version of the C-150.
Could an Aircraft school do an overhaul as a class project? Then Maybe you could save on labor.
Yes theoretically but none will due to the liability insurance requirements.
You may want to learn your left from right. Could come in handy as a pilot
"On average we do a yearly annual." How's that for redundant?
Well, the alternative is to perform a yearly annual inspection every twelve calendar months. Once a year. Annually.
Or... “should do an annual once a year”. Some times they end up sitting a while.
@@dirkhamilton2709 The thing is, by stating annual, one is already stating a year's time. In, “should do an annual once a year," annual is replacing inspection. In order to not be redundant, it should be: “should do an inspection once a year.”
@@EJWash57 Except a "yearly annual inspection" is the redundancy since yearly = annual. It should be either a yearly inspection or an annual inspection.
Every year of your birthdate it's your birthday or shall we say the day you were born...lol
So you can buy a 172 for less than the cost of an overhaul, then overhaul it, and the plane will still be worth more than you invested!
Yes, however you will gain basically a new aircraft to fly for a very long time when compared to buying new. You can turn around and sell later on for what you invested into the aircraft this gaining free flight time for however many hours flown On engine.
A&P Certified
$25 grand for an overhaul. Holy smokes Batman. Outta my price range.
And that is on the lower end of the price range. The 172 Skyhawk is a four cylinder 180 hp engine, normally aspirated. In comparison the 300 hp, turbocharged engines on my Twin Cessna cost $65,000 a piece to overhaul and that does not include removal and reinstallation.
@@eagle2019 Like I was saying, "Bring your wallet." An airplane - a big boat - or a RV - all money pits.
That sounds par for the course for a continental O-300 engine. A lot of money.
@@mmichaeldonavon I don't know a lot but I'm trying to learn more. Seems like boats and RV are money pits as they only depreciate. Good well maintained planes and helicopters of desirable models seemingly only gain in value, adding equipment like the nav seems expensive, but most of the money is seemingly recouped. This was likely a 30k plane, now that he is putting so much into it seems conceivable that it will now be a 100k plane. From what I can tell he will be 45k -ish deep, but nice restored models with modern nav, newish paint are going for like 100-120k on this model. I think it's part of the reason Dr's and Lawyers like to buy them and banks are willing to loan on such long terms (20+ years).
@@abigailjones9868 I think you are absolutely right! Still, in the long run, they are money pits - trust me, been flying for over 40 years an have seen a bit of this stuff. :) If you have the money, it's cool - and, yes, when you sell, you MIGHT recoup your investment. Thanks for the comments - are correct, IMHO.
Mike
A&P IA I just bought and installed OEM cylinders on my PA28 O-360A4A and nose crankcase seal. it's better to IRAN.
"IRAN"??? Inspect & Repair As Necessary - right?
@@EJWash57 yes sir
A well maintained engine should run almost forever without needing to be overhauled... if you're having to overhaul a four stroke gasoline engine, you're doing something wrong as far as maintenance or operation...
I was close with kXLL airport 22 grand r&r rebuild complete exchange 33 grand is what I paid fuel injection overhaul included several in 10 years flight school lease back
If you value your life .. dont worry about the cost.
🇩🇿🇩🇿👍👍👍👍
Compark 75
What type of business does he own?
$25K for the engine overhaul, or for all the fixes and upgrades Ricardo describes. If just for the engine, what's the bottom line cost for everything?
When you say 25,000, is that labor and parts? What would the engine parts only cost, and then show the labor? He mentioned the annual being 1,500. Then he adds another 1,000 per year. In the 1,500, how much is labor in that and how much in parts in that amount? Thanks
Typical GA labor is about $90 per hour.
I am sooooo glad to see stories by and about Black people who are in aviation especially general aviation. It really inspires me get my ticket again.
African American here, (x2) PA28 owner, PPL w/ IFR and A&P w/ IA.
@@winstonsmith6204 impressive!
Before I watch, my guess for the overhaul: $28,000.00
What happened to your hair?😂
Ummmm, could he just buy another plane? That was my first question. Second,.. “can we put a bigger engine in it?’ Wondering as a non plane owner,...
“Someone” took that engine. He has a great Pilot environment!
Yes he could conceivably buy another airplane but he would most likely be buying an airplane with a used engine. Plus he will have to sell the airplane he has now and will take a beating because of the condition of his engine. Airplanes are not like cars which are sold every couple of years. Airplanes are way more expensive and are kept for long period of time and are upgraded an repaired with new engines and newer avionics, paint and interior. The average airliner flying today is 20 years old.
Mike you voice is all muffled
Hô ly shít
Show Google pictures of Pikachu I'm just a couple thousand bucks for a hole solid plane
Perpetual money pit.
What toys/fun stuff aren't?
What a rip off for a glorrified vw engine .
Acccording to friend with a 172 and an A&P friend. They completely overhauled his 172 engine for between. $2500-$3000 . Sounds like $25000 is a complete rip
Henry, there are various flavors of overhaul or rebuilding of aircraft engines. Per the FAA a rebuilt engine as defined in § 91.421, “is a used engine that has been completely
disassembled, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, tested, and approved in the same manner and to the same tolerances and limits as a new engine with either new or used parts. However, all parts used must conform to the production drawing tolerances and limits for new parts or be of approved oversized or undersized dimensions for a new engine.”
An overhauled engine consists of the complete disassembly of an
engine. The overhaul facility inspects the engine, repairs it as necessary, reassembles, tests, and approves it for return to service within the fits and limits specified by the manufacturer’s overhaul data. This could be to new fits and limits or serviceable limits. The engine owner should clearly understand what fits and limits should be used when the engine is presented for overhaul. The owner should also be aware of any replaced parts, regardless of condition, as a result of a manufacturer’s overhaul data, SB, or an Airworthiness Directive (AD).
What your friend and his A&P performed sounds like a field overhaul to service limits. What that means is that so long as the parts meet the minimum size requirements from the manufacturer they can be reused. With this type of overhaul there are a lot less parts replaced. Conceivably the only parts that may be replaced in this type of overhaul can be gaskets and seals.
This is where the difference in price comes in. A factory rebuilt engine to new limits will cost in the $25,000 range as there are many more parts replaced and reworked.
There is also a big difference in the future longevity between the types of overhauls.
Cylinders alone are $1000 each...O300 has 6. No overhaul for that kind of money. $25k is not out of line, other things you find that need repair or replacement can add up quickly. If you break down, there is no shoulder to pull over on. Our 1964 Cessna 172 is probably worth $50-$55k with a halftime engine and a decent IFR panel. New strip and paint would be about $13k...carpet...$1000 or so, new seat covers and door panels, couple thousand more...nothing cheap in maintaining a certified general aviation aircraft. Not if you do it right and by the regs. Carb overhaul close to $1000, the list goes on. We upgraded our 55year old generator to a lightweight alternator, $1200, new battery?...$335...It does help to have an A&P IA friend who will let you perform work under his supervision and will sign off on it, one that helps you learn all you can about the plane and it’s systems.
The cheapest way to fly a plane is to rent it, or part ownership through a club that includes a mechanic and/or flight instructor with preferential rates. If you are mechanically and safety minded, experimental aviation is a great way to fly. EAA.org to learn more. I drive a 20 year old car so I can fly a 56 year old plane😎
wait why this guy throwing those masonic pyramid hand sign when answering a questions?? is he telling us something? is he one of them? or is he trying to get their attention?? hmm, one can only wonder!!
Another video narrated by a ten year old
Mike, you didn't know it was IFR? That's because you are always thinking of glass panels. Wasn't that Nav indicator on the lower Left of the panel? This IS the airplane YOU should have Mike. Think about the questions you are asking: You want to know about the seats and inside appointments. Paint? Who gives a crap! It's an OK airplane - a MUCH better airplane than the Sling. Mike, Mike, they saw you coming. This man KNOWS what he needs to fly. Sling? Not so much. Is a flash in the pan. I'm on HIS side. By the way, this airplane would serve YOU well if you ever do your corporate travel by plane. Still you HAVE to have an Instrument rating to go ANYWHERE of consequence. Hey, I have an idea! Trade the man EVEN - your Sling for his Cessna. You would get the better deal.
Merry Christmas
You have no idea what you are talking about.
@@mmichaeldonavon
The comment of "trade the man even" was definitive. The accusation of Sling being a "flash in the pan" was ridiculous. And the
general tone of the entire rant was condescending. Yes the Cessna 172 is a great plane...I took my first lessons in one
myself. But to use a fact now and then in
a rant that is generally factually inaccurate is distortion.
59 year old C172, bet you money it isn't original paint.
Looks like an example of tribalism.
I need boyfriend 💋💋💋💋💋💞💞💞💞
Welcome to the manosphere, male space. This would be a garden harvest for you to choose from.
Become a real human.