I live in a low mountain range. Gradients of 6 - 15% are completely normal. I work in a big city with lots of traffic lights on the way to work. Yes, a motor is very helpful for me.
Your range will be limited. had an ebike with 250w battery and motor. On a loop route got 30 miles on 100% assist, an average of 125w an hour due to being above the 15mph limit half the time, climbing hills upto 15%. On 40% assist though, the range jumped uptto 60 miles.
@@DemiGod.. Tested: Most of the time you are faster than the limit of the engine. With a 370 Wh battery, I get well over 100 km (62 mi) with 20 kg (44 lbs) of luggage. That includes battery and motor. My modified VM goes 40 km/h (25 mph) with 100W rider power.
This has absolutely nothing to do with your expertise on the subject - which I value greatly - but: I love the Finnish accent! This makes your video's briljantly funny in a most endearing way and makes me want to watch the films over and over while taking in all the usefull information that you share. Thank you very much!
Dear Saukki, thanx for your video. I must add that about the E-assist that it does make sense even if limited to 25 km/h, at least soon as you live and ride in hilly areas, like i.e. the Black Forest. I bought a used Quest by the way some 10 months ago and I am excited about it, and I already thought of buying an e-assist WAW when I get older (now 56) since detachable front and rear makes maintenance much easier. But I love watching your videos and enjoy your presenting various VM types.
2 года назад+14
I've been riding my Rohloff-equipped WAW without rear suspension for about 35.000 km. In this configuration the drivetrain is completely enclosed which, together with the Rohloff, makes for excellent chain life. With M+ on the rear I have yet to experience a flat tire (knock on wood) so for me no issue with removing the rear end at the side of the road. Another option would be to use a Gaadi tube, which would at least remove the need for removing the rear wheel as well.
As a 65 year old, 18 year cycle commuter, in terrain that requires me to travel down 5, 6, and 9% grades just to leave my neighborhood and access the metropolitan community, an e-assist motor would be necessary to make a velomobile usable, ESPECIALLY, returning home! What I find interesting, too, about e-assist in a velomobile is it makes certain designs more practical to use for more riders and conditions. That's a good thing. If money was no object, I'd love an e-assist Leitra, tbh. Although they're not "efficient" or "easy access", I like the idea of a larger access space with those designs, making velomobiles more available for a wider range of users.🤔 Thanks for doing the work you do.
HAve a recumbent trike rather than a velo. Have quite a few 15% gradients where I live , living on top of one of them. Can climb them without a motor, but got a 250W motor due to getting fed up how slow climbing was. Now I climb at the same speed as my bicycle, or faster if I want to pedal at a slower cadence to us more torque which will reduce range though due to using more current.
To me the big advantage of the waw is the racing hood which is easily opened and closed and hinges on the mirrors. The racing hood i had on my mango velomobile was attached using velcro so everytime you wanted to get out or if you had to reach to press a button for the cyclist traffic lights if the traffic light didnt detect you it was a bit of a pain to open and close, also had to be careful it didnt get blow away by the wind if you opened it since it wasnt attached to the bike once you undid the velcro straps. Also maintanance seems way easier indeed, especially on the front. The exposed drivetrain is a bummer, my chain lasted for over 70.000km on my mango and still looked like new because it was fully enclosed.
WAW with 28 rear wheel without suspension can nicely roll over holes and hit potholes without breaking rider back, air suspension can be locked so it dont flex steal power.
I saw a velomobiel in London City centre yesterday. I was intrigued and took a video and pics. I instantly thought it was a very small car but, to my amazement, only just now realise it is a bike. It's so cool
Yes good you have tested the e waw in ride one with thé rolhof 14 speed hub so there is no durt on my chain a 750watt baffang is my assist really spacy and it rides like hell
Good review, quite complete for such a short time of testing. I run the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme in the rear, which is basically puncture proof, so no problem with that. What you didn't mention is that the Waw is also available in carbon version and that it has different nose and tail options depending on the riders size and if or if not with rear suspension. But overall very good review.
Had an ebike bicycle with 15mph max assist level. You don't need it on the flat or downhill as over 15mph, but it doubled my speed going up hills. For a velomobile I should be even more help going up hills due to extra weight.
Thanks. I was waiting fir this video. The WAW is much to under estamated. It's differend, but therefor not less good. I find it a quit interesting consept with lots of innovative design details.
It's insane that ebikes have a speed limit below the speed of traffic on city streets (same thing here in Canada) but all other vehicles are totally unlimited. The only utility of this "feature" might be when you have multiple ebikes and want them to share a common cruising speed. A cruise control setting would make riding in a group easier and more fun.
bicycles become unstable at high speeds. Yeah its engineering, and came be overcome but then you should be a qualified rider to avoid catastropic accidents, look at any down hill bicycle speed race for the carnage. 40 km hr is about the max. imo.
I believe that human powered bikes are not limited like ebikes are for speed. I've gone down a decent paved road up to 80 kmh on my racing bike. It was fine just had to stop later for a light.
I got a Carbon WaW - I call the steering 'tank-style-steering'. Imo it offers a more relaxed position of the driver's arms when cruising. Because of the camber of the front wheels you can really throw it into a corner, don't overdo it, i almost encountered the limits of physics 🙂
Very good video, as usual! I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I am probably not as physically suited to velomobiles as I am to open tadpole trikes: If your shoulders are touching the fairing in the WAW, there's a very good chance I won't fit at all, unless there's an XXXL version, or a fairing option with cutouts... Silly question: How far back would you judge the center of gravity to be with reference to the front axle? With a rear hub motor, I would expect it near the center of the seat. I ask because my trike has a short wheelbase and a bottom bracket motor, and I have to carry an extra 5 to 10 kg in my panniers to keep the rear wheel on the ground during descents and heavy braking because the C of G is now within 10 cm of the front axle, which means my trike becomes a bike more often than I'd like...
Good question. I don’t know about this Waw, but the Quest which I had was kind of front heavy. About 1/3 of the weight was on the rear wheel. I would guess this waw is not as front heavy because of the extra weight of rear suspension and motor at the rear 🤔
@@TheVelomobileChannel thanks! I was curious. All the structure for the fairing modules made me wonder. I'm currently building a canopy for my Catrike instead of a fairing, and the weight distribution is going to be critical. There are canopies available, but they go as light as possible. I'm turning mine into a 'convertible' with camera mounts, so mine will only attach at the back. Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the WAW overview. I didn't know the rear of the drivetrain was that exposed. Could you tell us how the handling compared to the Milan SL, Quattro and Alpha 7? I put new steering plates in my DF XL and it's much less twitchy now!!
It’s hard to say anything about the handling after such a short test ride. The steering felt quite stable, but on the other hand I never get used to the tank steering. Needs more kms.
if I may, I cannot compare as I have not ridden other velomobiles, but the handling is very stable to me, except with sudden sidewinds, then you have to really pay attention (but I think that is the same with most velomobiles). I like the 'tank steering' a lot as it is very comfortable to the arms and the steering is very precise.
I understand why you say that e-assist doesn't make sense on a velomobile if limited to 25 kph, but if you think as a device to flatten climbs, instead of a device to turn the vehicle into a three wheeler moped, it still makes sense even at legal speeds. Of course it would be almost mandatory to choose a motor with good freewheel in that case, otherwise it would be a brake at cruising speeds. If you lived in an hilly area with hot summers I think you would still be happy with a legal e-assist. With freewheel!
@@velopromobiel personally I'm not a fan of crank motors, they have increased loss of efficiency due to the multiple transmission stages and put the velomobile transmission under extra wear. It's good for doing offroad in difficult conditions and more intuitive to use, though.
@@TheVelomobileChannel regenerative braking doesn't make big difference in flatlands, generally. Though, since velomobiles have very high efficiency, it would be the vehicle where regenerative braking would be most exploitable, both because the energy gain is maximised, and because it would help preventing brakes from overheating in long descents... I know about people using parachutes in their velomobiles when they ride in hilly areas!
Regarding the headroom, the waw has the highest head bump of the main commercially produced Velomobiles. That is why there is so much head room. I don’t remember exactly how much higher, but I know it is a few cm.
makes sense when you live in hilly areans. for example here in switzerland. but i think it should be a drivetrain that does not hinder you to go faster like on some normal ebikes. like canyon with the FAZUA engines.
Look at me, filming myself while riding illegal velo! 😀 I see why you don't understand what is e-assist good for at velo at your country (I've never seen anythint that flat) but where WAW is made it is completely different story. Even that EU-legal version can be very helpful, as it enables you to get UP THERE and still keep your lungs inside your chest where they belong. For a while I considered that option for my trike, but later left that idea. Now I am pretty damn happy about it, as cases of fire due to batteries multiplies as crazy. Nice velo tho, only that thing about rear wheel seems crazy - dismounting whole rear end in case of flat tire is ridiculous...
Its mayby look complicated but acces to wheel is excelent, you dont have to break arm to get acces to whole seting and any problem is very simple and nainstream so any shop can work on it without any special tools.
@@jirivrana3623 no need of special tools Is fine, but dismounting such thing on roadside doesn't sound as greatest idea anyway. If nothing else, it Is great oportunity to loose some bolts And never see them again... :-)
Being a track and cross country runner. I see tank steering the best. When your arms are over your chest for tiller steering you have less lung capacity for breathing. When running we are taught to keep our arms on our sides and not going in front of our chest or stomach.
So electric assist does make sense if you are dealing with hill climbs or resistance from snow on the ground and it would make even more sense if the ridiculous analog cycling regulations were removed. Too often we find that regulations are being made based upon the input from analog riders who don't have any knowledge about electric assist. It reminds me of the illogical arguments put forward by road cyclists against mountain bikers back in the 80's. Cyclists can do much better if we come together as a group and promote cycling infrastructure and safety regulations instead of fighting amongst each other, we are much stronger in putting our voice forward if we work together.
I have an UP with direct-drive hub motor (S-Pedelec 45 km/h), and it makes sense at these speeds. And you can harvest energy instead of breaking (downhill or slowing down). If the WAW has this feature, it can possibly go without much charging, if the electric power is only used for hills and starting till 25 km/h. I also have a geared hub motor, that is restricted to 25 km/h in my normal pedelec (street racing bike with fenders / randonneur). I usually cruise at 30-32 km/h wilthout the motor. But starting and uphills it is really usefull, cause I've got a little too much weight. The motor has a freewheel, so no recuperation, but also no losses over 25 km/h. If I would use the WOW and would use it street legal, I would use the geared hub motor for shure. More torque (max. speed is 25 km/h, you have high speed or high torque), less losses, no problem with an empty battery.
How much energy can you get from regenerative breaking? Velo Is light and speeds are not that big so you get bit back but also create another charging cicle on batery so do it help or hurt batery?
Yes, almost every model comes with derailleur gears as standard, because of efficiency and light weight. Also you can easily get large gear range. But you can spec some models with hub gears. Ie. Rohloff hub.
Velomobiles with big motors, are basically a featherweight cyclecar sportscar.......with an added manual drive. ...And no suspension? That's gotta be pretty exciting...I'd like to see somebody build a very quick one with suspension.
Most velomobiles do have suspension. Including this one. And heres one of the fastest velomobile: ruclips.net/video/FJ8ueScmc4o/видео.html (and that’s obviously without e-assist, because it would make it just slower 😅 )
Just curious about how much longer the battery would last on a velomobile compared to a recumbent trike- that could make velomobiles quite attractive inter town commuters for non fitness nuts which would open the velomobile market up to a huge amount of people.
My battery on my ICE sprint 2 used to last all week, commuting 30 miles a day… In a velo I’d expect about the same - because it was only ever assisting uphill and away from lights etc.
At the advanced age of 82, I have decided-after several months of intense research- that I am going to purchase a new WAW velomobile with E-assist. The number one feature: The removable front and rear cones for easy access to the mechanical components! Second: Although the WAW is an "old" design, I feel (admittedly from my limited experience) that many of the more modern designs have copied the WAW's innovative first efforts. This is all beside the point to an old guy; I don't want to be scrounging around on the ground to change a punctured tire. If I have to remove a few retainer machine screws to remove the tail-cone (I wish they were quarter-turn Zeus fasteners) to access the WAW's workings... I'll gladly do it. Third: despite the shrill pleas of the "all carbon" crowd, I'll gladly forgo a few pounds of all-up weight to gain safety with the carbon-reinforced kevlar construction that is more easily repaired, along with the 18-20 pounds of E-assist hardware to make it up the hills, accelerate through stop-and-go intersections, and get back home if I run out of "gas." If you think that my objectives are unrealistic and trivial, remember this: 70% of America's wealth resides with citizens 65 years and older; we retain the buying power within our society... not the body-strong youth who don't. The free-world's velomobile marketing strategy is completely BACKWARDS. Start catering to the old farts. In that regard, I salute the makers of the WAW machine.
Hej Saukki! I really like your very clear and honest videos. 👍🏼 I am going to take a look at a Waw second hand and I have no experience on velomobiles, only recumbent bikes. What would you recommend me to look at, to check when I test ride it. What are critical aspects of a velomobile that need to be checked before buying? Do you have tips for me? Kind regards from Danmark
I haven’t bought any used velomobiles, so I have no expertise in that field, but here’s some things that came to my mind. First of all check everything is as advertised. Check if the bodywork is in decent condition. Check the steering joints that there’s no extra play anywhere. Check the brakes and gears on the test ride. Look at in what condition the drivetrain is. If the drivetrain is clean and well lubricated, it tells that the previous owner has been looking after their velomobile and that it might be overall in good condition.
Terve Saukki! Thanks a lot for these very good tips. I really appreciate it, and thanks for replying. :) Again, I like your video's: they are funny and very professionally made. Keep it up 👍🏼
it is heavier than most modern velomobiles, but I think it is also the most comfortable and practical velomobile in any sense, and with e-assist it is a very complete package.
7:54 i would argue that 25km/h speed limit doesn't even make sense on normal ebike because if you ride bicycle alot you probably have muscles to go much faster than that. i can do 45km/h pretty easily on a normal bicycle. yeah sure 45km/h might be a bit too fast for beginners but maybe something between 45km/h and 25km/h would be okay. i think 35km/h would be good speed limit for ebikes.
@ᚺᛖᛚᚹᛖᛏᛖ ' seems like that problem is limited to some people only so I don't see why we should restrict everyone to slower speed limit because of that. Why not just give this slower speed limit to those people who aren't capable of driving safely at faster speed?
@ᚺᛖᛚᚹᛖᛏᛖ ' like i dunno maybe it would be good if people needed to take a quick ebike driver test or something like that to make sure they are capable of riding this faster ebike safely before they are allowed to ride one of these faster ebikes.
@Beyond4137it's a big issue that old people drive cars. A deadly one but nobody touches that. F this. I can ride a motorcycle let me have a super eco cheap form of transport, damnit. It's all car lobbies.
Speed pedelecs (45 km/h) are legal, but you need insurance, drivers licence & you have to register the bike (so it needs to have a register plate). I’m pretty sure most velomobiles don’t comply all the regulations needed to be able to register as a speed pedelec (basically same as moped here in Finland). 250 W, 25 km/h pedal assist doesn’t need any of those things.
Turning signals are quite horrible on those machines considering speeds they travel at and small road signature. If I will ever build mine, I would at least go for Lucas L632 + LMP129C with 12v supply.
Does it make sense to use a velomobile in the mountains - no, if there is no electric motor with the possibility of recuperation. You can double your average speed, when you climb the moutain instead of 10kmph with 25kmph and during driving down you can charge your battery.
I'd want the motor to help get that thing up a hill. I looked up the prices on these and they are all over €10k. No one is going to spend that on a bike unless they are well off. Is there no way that people can drive such a unit without having to depend 5-10× the cost of a regular bike? If you want buy-in by regular folks then the prices gave to be reasonable.
Imo the best assist is the one tied to the pedals hub , not in the rear wheel. As you can replace the classic gear shift with a 14 speed rohloff. And also you can put a Schlumpf HSD drive too. Imo this configuration will be the best for great speeds ! :) I would love to see a test of a velomobile equiped like this one day...
I doubt the direct drive motor was giving that much power at that speed. Direct drive motors are efficient only at specific rpm. And that speed is definietly higher that the optimal speed for the motor. Also I was pedaling at around 150 watts.
@@TheVelomobileChannel i wish serial hybrid drivetrain for velomobiles existed, of course commercially available, not as demos presented by some startups. While they may have some lag (which we could observe on some demo video you commented back in the days), they could eliminate some cons of traditional drivetrains. No chain, no derailleurs (after I tried Alfine 8, I’m not a fan of planetary gears in bicycles), regenerative braking, very flexible characteristic (for example based on produced torque, not only rpm related) which can be modeled in software.
Learned velomobile and recumbent bikes were a thing today and subsequently found your channel and this video, definitely pretty cool, though I do have to say, the 250w hub motor on this is pretty disappointing, I'd be interested in seeing what a decent mid-drive motor could do however, such as a 750w bafang or their bbshd 1000w, combine with a significantly bigger pair of batteries, that 48 seems pretty weak for that, granted I'm an American, and like all Americans, I believe the more power the better, so my ideas are a bit biased 😁
Sounds awfully american 😄 But on a streamlined and efficient velomobile, like this one, you don’t need that much power. At least on flat area like this. But on mountains it’s of course bit different 😄
Many EU countries limit bikes to 250 watt and pedal assist. Otherwise it fallls subject to a whole lot or rules and regulations and needs a drivers license
The whole point of biking is the view and fresh air for fun and the view and sounds for safety. Sitting down inside a box looks boring and dangerous. Maybe ok on a dedicated track but not for everyday life. IMO
My riding with upright ended as soon as I got DFXL. It made my cycling territory a whole lot bigger, so much more to experience. Plus, when riding velomobile, there's no head wind. You only see upright guys fighting against it, and pass them even easier. Visibility from velomobile is better than sitting in a car. You can smell the nature as if you were riding a bicycle also. Yes, there is lots of drivetrain and tyre noise in a rolling velomobile but the wind noise on the other hand is much smaller. Rainy weather harms you less, thanks to the closed structure, drivetrain stays clean in any weather condition (DF), so it doesn't wear as much... There simply is so much to like when riding with a velomobile 🙂
I live in a low mountain range.
Gradients of 6 - 15% are completely normal.
I work in a big city with lots of traffic lights on the way to work.
Yes, a motor is very helpful for me.
Your range will be limited. had an ebike with 250w battery and motor. On a loop route got 30 miles on 100% assist, an average of 125w an hour due to being above the 15mph limit half the time, climbing hills upto 15%. On 40% assist though, the range jumped uptto 60 miles.
@@DemiGod.. Tested: Most of the time you are faster than the limit of the engine. With a 370 Wh battery, I get well over 100 km (62 mi) with 20 kg (44 lbs) of luggage. That includes battery and motor. My modified VM goes 40 km/h (25 mph) with 100W rider power.
This has absolutely nothing to do with your expertise on the subject - which I value greatly - but: I love the Finnish accent! This makes your video's briljantly funny in a most endearing way and makes me want to watch the films over and over while taking in all the usefull information that you share. Thank you very much!
Dear Saukki, thanx for your video. I must add that about the E-assist that it does make sense even if limited to 25 km/h, at least soon as you live and ride in hilly areas, like i.e. the Black Forest. I bought a used Quest by the way some 10 months ago and I am excited about it, and I already thought of buying an e-assist WAW when I get older (now 56) since detachable front and rear makes maintenance much easier. But I love watching your videos and enjoy your presenting various VM types.
I've been riding my Rohloff-equipped WAW without rear suspension for about 35.000 km. In this configuration the drivetrain is completely enclosed which, together with the Rohloff, makes for excellent chain life.
With M+ on the rear I have yet to experience a flat tire (knock on wood) so for me no issue with removing the rear end at the side of the road. Another option would be to use a Gaadi tube, which would at least remove the need for removing the rear wheel as well.
About time these had electric assist. It starts to make sense as an alternative to a car for the daily commute,
As a 65 year old, 18 year cycle commuter, in terrain that requires me to travel down 5, 6, and 9% grades just to leave my neighborhood and access the metropolitan community, an e-assist motor would be necessary to make a velomobile usable, ESPECIALLY, returning home!
What I find interesting, too, about e-assist in a velomobile is it makes certain designs more practical to use for more riders and conditions. That's a good thing.
If money was no object, I'd love an e-assist Leitra, tbh. Although they're not "efficient" or "easy access", I like the idea of a larger access space with those designs, making velomobiles more available for a wider range of users.🤔
Thanks for doing the work you do.
HAve a recumbent trike rather than a velo. Have quite a few 15% gradients where I live , living on top of one of them. Can climb them without a motor, but got a 250W motor due to getting fed up how slow climbing was. Now I climb at the same speed as my bicycle, or faster if I want to pedal at a slower cadence to us more torque which will reduce range though due to using more current.
Great video. I'm collecting my eWAW #598 on friday!
enjoy!
Good for you! If you like it as much as I like mine, (526), you will love it. Happy velo-ing!
the most interesting velomobile for me
Nice , first time I have seen one opened up . that's pretty handy .
500 KM Just to do that conversion is INSANE!. That guy is proving real service
To me the big advantage of the waw is the racing hood which is easily opened and closed and hinges on the mirrors. The racing hood i had on my mango velomobile was attached using velcro so everytime you wanted to get out or if you had to reach to press a button for the cyclist traffic lights if the traffic light didnt detect you it was a bit of a pain to open and close, also had to be careful it didnt get blow away by the wind if you opened it since it wasnt attached to the bike once you undid the velcro straps. Also maintanance seems way easier indeed, especially on the front. The exposed drivetrain is a bummer, my chain lasted for over 70.000km on my mango and still looked like new because it was fully enclosed.
My electric velomobile has carried me more than 150,000 km. Electric drive is one important component.
WAW with 28 rear wheel without suspension can nicely roll over holes and hit potholes without breaking rider back, air suspension can be locked so it dont flex steal power.
I saw a velomobiel in London City centre yesterday. I was intrigued and took a video and pics. I instantly thought it was a very small car but, to my amazement, only just now realise it is a bike. It's so cool
If it was blue and white then it'd likely be John Williams who does the Velo-Ads youtube channel
Yes good you have tested the e waw in ride one with thé rolhof 14 speed hub so there is no durt on my chain a 750watt baffang is my assist really spacy and it rides like hell
Good review, quite complete for such a short time of testing. I run the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme in the rear, which is basically puncture proof, so no problem with that. What you didn't mention is that the Waw is also available in carbon version and that it has different nose and tail options depending on the riders size and if or if not with rear suspension. But overall very good review.
Had an ebike bicycle with 15mph max assist level. You don't need it on the flat or downhill as over 15mph, but it doubled my speed going up hills. For a velomobile I should be even more help going up hills due to extra weight.
Thanks. I was waiting fir this video. The WAW is much to under estamated. It's differend, but therefor not less good. I find it a quit interesting consept with lots of innovative design details.
There is many things, the WAW does, that I wish some the newer Velo's used. Especially the removable nose/tail.
I just wanted to say for the cycling community , Mike Burrows (17 April 1943 - 15 August 2022) R.I.P.
It's insane that ebikes have a speed limit below the speed of traffic on city streets (same thing here in Canada) but all other vehicles are totally unlimited.
The only utility of this "feature" might be when you have multiple ebikes and want them to share a common cruising speed. A cruise control setting would make riding in a group easier and more fun.
bicycles become unstable at high speeds. Yeah its engineering, and came be overcome but then you should be a qualified rider to avoid catastropic accidents, look at any down hill bicycle speed race for the carnage.
40 km hr is about the max. imo.
I believe that human powered bikes are not limited like ebikes are for speed. I've gone down a decent paved road up to 80 kmh on my racing bike. It was fine just had to stop later for a light.
I got a Carbon WaW - I call the steering 'tank-style-steering'. Imo it offers a more relaxed position of the driver's arms when cruising. Because of the camber of the front wheels you can really throw it into a corner, don't overdo it, i almost encountered the limits of physics 🙂
Very good video, as usual! I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I am probably not as physically suited to velomobiles as I am to open tadpole trikes: If your shoulders are touching the fairing in the WAW, there's a very good chance I won't fit at all, unless there's an XXXL version, or a fairing option with cutouts...
Silly question: How far back would you judge the center of gravity to be with reference to the front axle? With a rear hub motor, I would expect it near the center of the seat. I ask because my trike has a short wheelbase and a bottom bracket motor, and I have to carry an extra 5 to 10 kg in my panniers to keep the rear wheel on the ground during descents and heavy braking because the C of G is now within 10 cm of the front axle, which means my trike becomes a bike more often than I'd like...
Good question. I don’t know about this Waw, but the Quest which I had was kind of front heavy. About 1/3 of the weight was on the rear wheel. I would guess this waw is not as front heavy because of the extra weight of rear suspension and motor at the rear 🤔
@@TheVelomobileChannel thanks! I was curious. All the structure for the fairing modules made me wonder. I'm currently building a canopy for my Catrike instead of a fairing, and the weight distribution is going to be critical. There are canopies available, but they go as light as possible. I'm turning mine into a 'convertible' with camera mounts, so mine will only attach at the back.
Thanks for the reply!
Most excellent review!
Thanks for the WAW overview. I didn't know the rear of the drivetrain was that exposed. Could you tell us how the handling compared to the Milan SL, Quattro and Alpha 7? I put new steering plates in my DF XL and it's much less twitchy now!!
It’s hard to say anything about the handling after such a short test ride. The steering felt quite stable, but on the other hand I never get used to the tank steering. Needs more kms.
if I may, I cannot compare as I have not ridden other velomobiles, but the handling is very stable to me, except with sudden sidewinds, then you have to really pay attention (but I think that is the same with most velomobiles). I like the 'tank steering' a lot as it is very comfortable to the arms and the steering is very precise.
I understand why you say that e-assist doesn't make sense on a velomobile if limited to 25 kph, but if you think as a device to flatten climbs, instead of a device to turn the vehicle into a three wheeler moped, it still makes sense even at legal speeds. Of course it would be almost mandatory to choose a motor with good freewheel in that case, otherwise it would be a brake at cruising speeds. If you lived in an hilly area with hot summers I think you would still be happy with a legal e-assist. With freewheel!
I agree. In hilly area it would make sense, but not in flat area like this is where I live.
in that sense I think a crank motor is a better option, perfect freewheel, no option to have regenerative braking though.
@@velopromobiel I don’t think regen braking makes a lot of difference in a velomobile, so it’s not a big loss.
@@velopromobiel personally I'm not a fan of crank motors, they have increased loss of efficiency due to the multiple transmission stages and put the velomobile transmission under extra wear. It's good for doing offroad in difficult conditions and more intuitive to use, though.
@@TheVelomobileChannel regenerative braking doesn't make big difference in flatlands, generally. Though, since velomobiles have very high efficiency, it would be the vehicle where regenerative braking would be most exploitable, both because the energy gain is maximised, and because it would help preventing brakes from overheating in long descents... I know about people using parachutes in their velomobiles when they ride in hilly areas!
EU needs to re-assess. Canada has 500W + 32km/h limits and USA is higher than that. Great vid.
The luggage space seemed quite small, smaller than Quest would you think?
How much heavier is the electric module compared to regular ones?
Regarding the headroom, the waw has the highest head bump of the main commercially produced Velomobiles. That is why there is so much head room. I don’t remember exactly how much higher, but I know it is a few cm.
Hello, i love the idea of velomobile but i 'm quite large 120kg. Would the alleweder a4 be suitable as it has a large entry ?
makes sense when you live in hilly areans. for example here in switzerland. but i think it should be a drivetrain that does not hinder you to go faster like on some normal ebikes. like canyon with the FAZUA engines.
Look at me, filming myself while riding illegal velo! 😀
I see why you don't understand what is e-assist good for at velo at your country (I've never seen anythint that flat) but where WAW is made it is completely different story. Even that EU-legal version can be very helpful, as it enables you to get UP THERE and still keep your lungs inside your chest where they belong.
For a while I considered that option for my trike, but later left that idea. Now I am pretty damn happy about it, as cases of fire due to batteries multiplies as crazy.
Nice velo tho, only that thing about rear wheel seems crazy - dismounting whole rear end in case of flat tire is ridiculous...
I agree: you need e-assist mostly for going uphill. But if going uphill is not easy for you, do not expect it is easy for 250w motor.
Its mayby look complicated but acces to wheel is excelent, you dont have to break arm to get acces to whole seting and any problem is very simple and nainstream so any shop can work on it without any special tools.
@@jirivrana3623 no need of special tools Is fine, but dismounting such thing on roadside doesn't sound as greatest idea anyway. If nothing else, it Is great oportunity to loose some bolts And never see them again... :-)
I ride schwalbe marathon supreme and have done 10.000kms now without a puncture :)
@@velopromobiel lucky you, i had two in my right front 20" Kojak just last week...
Being a track and cross country runner. I see tank steering the best. When your arms are over your chest for tiller steering you have less lung capacity for breathing. When running we are taught to keep our arms on our sides and not going in front of our chest or stomach.
So electric assist does make sense if you are dealing with hill climbs or resistance from snow on the ground and it would make even more sense if the ridiculous analog cycling regulations were removed. Too often we find that regulations are being made based upon the input from analog riders who don't have any knowledge about electric assist. It reminds me of the illogical arguments put forward by road cyclists against mountain bikers back in the 80's. Cyclists can do much better if we come together as a group and promote cycling infrastructure and safety regulations instead of fighting amongst each other, we are much stronger in putting our voice forward if we work together.
I have an UP with direct-drive hub motor (S-Pedelec 45 km/h), and it makes sense at these speeds. And you can harvest energy instead of breaking (downhill or slowing down). If the WAW has this feature, it can possibly go without much charging, if the electric power is only used for hills and starting till 25 km/h.
I also have a geared hub motor, that is restricted to 25 km/h in my normal pedelec (street racing bike with fenders / randonneur). I usually cruise at 30-32 km/h wilthout the motor. But starting and uphills it is really usefull, cause I've got a little too much weight. The motor has a freewheel, so no recuperation, but also no losses over 25 km/h.
If I would use the WOW and would use it street legal, I would use the geared hub motor for shure. More torque (max. speed is 25 km/h, you have high speed or high torque), less losses, no problem with an empty battery.
How many layers of fiberglass for body or carbon fiber?
6:30 : do the canopy has a chance to break if rolled like this ?
It is what i' m afraid about .
In my experience not, it is flexible enough
Nice review, thanks! Which is the motor consumption in wh/km?
Is there also regen braking I suppose...
How much energy can you get from regenerative breaking?
Velo Is light and speeds are not that big so you get bit back but also create another charging cicle on batery so do it help or hurt batery?
Why do all these vehicles come with derailleur gears instead of the much more reliable gear hub?
Yes, almost every model comes with derailleur gears as standard, because of efficiency and light weight. Also you can easily get large gear range. But you can spec some models with hub gears. Ie. Rohloff hub.
Hi I have a question Can a person like me use one of that
Velomobiles with big motors, are basically a featherweight cyclecar sportscar.......with an added manual drive. ...And no suspension? That's gotta be pretty exciting...I'd like to see somebody build a very quick one with suspension.
Most velomobiles do have suspension. Including this one.
And heres one of the fastest velomobile: ruclips.net/video/FJ8ueScmc4o/видео.html (and that’s obviously without e-assist, because it would make it just slower 😅 )
Not exactly what you wanted as its not a Velomeobile but I think you might enjoy watching this ruclips.net/video/sRH_cpCwNDs/видео.html
Nice Video - thanks
do you have any comments about the turning radius ? I heard it's not too bad on the WaW, compared to the Milan SL
It’s definietly better than Milan SL.
@@TheVelomobileChannel thanks !
Just curious about how much longer the battery would last on a velomobile compared to a recumbent trike- that could make velomobiles quite attractive inter town commuters for non fitness nuts which would open the velomobile market up to a huge amount of people.
I have middrive bafang motor, set to the lowest assist setting (100-150W support) I manage to do 100-120 kms at 40-45 km/h with a 630 Wh battery
My battery on my ICE sprint 2 used to last all week, commuting 30 miles a day…
In a velo I’d expect about the same - because it was only ever assisting uphill and away from lights etc.
At the advanced age of 82, I have decided-after several months of intense research- that I am going to purchase a new WAW velomobile with E-assist. The number one feature: The removable front and rear cones for easy access to the mechanical components! Second: Although the WAW is an "old" design, I feel (admittedly from my limited experience) that many of the more modern designs have copied the WAW's innovative first efforts. This is all beside the point to an old guy; I don't want to be scrounging around on the ground to change a punctured tire. If I have to remove a few retainer machine screws to remove the tail-cone (I wish they were quarter-turn Zeus fasteners) to access the WAW's workings... I'll gladly do it. Third: despite the shrill pleas of the "all carbon" crowd, I'll gladly forgo a few pounds of all-up weight to gain safety with the carbon-reinforced kevlar construction that is more easily repaired, along with the 18-20 pounds of E-assist hardware to make it up the hills, accelerate through stop-and-go intersections, and get back home if I run out of "gas."
If you think that my objectives are unrealistic and trivial, remember this: 70% of America's wealth resides with citizens 65 years and older; we retain the buying power within our society... not the body-strong youth who don't. The free-world's velomobile marketing strategy is completely BACKWARDS. Start catering to the old farts. In that regard, I salute the makers of the WAW machine.
Hej Saukki! I really like your very clear and honest videos. 👍🏼 I am going to take a look at a Waw second hand and I have no experience on velomobiles, only recumbent bikes. What would you recommend me to look at, to check when I test ride it. What are critical aspects of a velomobile that need to be checked before buying? Do you have tips for me?
Kind regards from Danmark
I haven’t bought any used velomobiles, so I have no expertise in that field, but here’s some things that came to my mind. First of all check everything is as advertised. Check if the bodywork is in decent condition. Check the steering joints that there’s no extra play anywhere. Check the brakes and gears on the test ride. Look at in what condition the drivetrain is. If the drivetrain is clean and well lubricated, it tells that the previous owner has been looking after their velomobile and that it might be overall in good condition.
Terve Saukki! Thanks a lot for these very good tips. I really appreciate it, and thanks for replying. :) Again, I like your video's: they are funny and very professionally made. Keep it up 👍🏼
the more I see these the more I want one
Looks like a nice machine. Quick question - how much does it weigh?
it is heavier than most modern velomobiles, but I think it is also the most comfortable and practical velomobile in any sense, and with e-assist it is a very complete package.
30 kgs if i remember correctly ?
@@netshaman9918 that would be the standard version without rear suspension and without e-assist.
@@LudwigDesmet base weight is something like 28kg suspension actually add extra weight.
Seems to me a velomobile with a motor assist (not hub) would be better?
7:54 i would argue that 25km/h speed limit doesn't even make sense on normal ebike because if you ride bicycle alot you probably have muscles to go much faster than that. i can do 45km/h pretty easily on a normal bicycle. yeah sure 45km/h might be a bit too fast for beginners but maybe something between 45km/h and 25km/h would be okay. i think 35km/h would be good speed limit for ebikes.
@ᚺᛖᛚᚹᛖᛏᛖ ' seems like that problem is limited to some people only so I don't see why we should restrict everyone to slower speed limit because of that. Why not just give this slower speed limit to those people who aren't capable of driving safely at faster speed?
@ᚺᛖᛚᚹᛖᛏᛖ ' like i dunno maybe it would be good if people needed to take a quick ebike driver test or something like that to make sure they are capable of riding this faster ebike safely before they are allowed to ride one of these faster ebikes.
@ᚺᛖᛚᚹᛖᛏᛖ ' that's awesome. I don't think we have those in finland yet but maybe soon. 🙂
@@oplkfdhgk Only problem is that they are quite expensive 4000-5000 euros when you can get electric 45 km/h moped at 2000 euros
@Beyond4137it's a big issue that old people drive cars. A deadly one but nobody touches that. F this. I can ride a motorcycle let me have a super eco cheap form of transport, damnit. It's all car lobbies.
Are speed pedelecs not legal in Finland? They're an EU standard.
Speed pedelecs (45 km/h) are legal, but you need insurance, drivers licence & you have to register the bike (so it needs to have a register plate). I’m pretty sure most velomobiles don’t comply all the regulations needed to be able to register as a speed pedelec (basically same as moped here in Finland). 250 W, 25 km/h pedal assist doesn’t need any of those things.
the way he says removed
and rolled
Turning signals are quite horrible on those machines considering speeds they travel at and small road signature. If I will ever build mine, I would at least go for Lucas L632 + LMP129C with 12v supply.
Does it make sense to use a velomobile in the mountains - no, if there is no electric motor with the possibility of recuperation. You can double your average speed, when you climb the moutain instead of 10kmph with 25kmph and during driving down you can charge your battery.
I'd want the motor to help get that thing up a hill.
I looked up the prices on these and they are all over €10k. No one is going to spend that on a bike unless they are well off. Is there no way that people can drive such a unit without having to depend 5-10× the cost of a regular bike? If you want buy-in by regular folks then the prices gave to be reasonable.
I agree. 3000euro is the price i think will be more attractive
Imo the best assist is the one tied to the pedals hub , not in the rear wheel.
As you can replace the classic gear shift with a 14 speed rohloff.
And also you can put a Schlumpf HSD drive too.
Imo this configuration will be the best for great speeds ! :)
I would love to see a test of a velomobile equiped like this one day...
You need a bigger Hub motor to give you more speed
Mid drive is the only real option. Hub motors alone aren’t fun. With mids you keep the cycling aspect
Get rid of the screws n replace with twist locks from aircraft. 90°turn opens.
47 kph on 250 watt motor, not bad.
I doubt the direct drive motor was giving that much power at that speed. Direct drive motors are efficient only at specific rpm. And that speed is definietly higher that the optimal speed for the motor. Also I was pedaling at around 150 watts.
@@TheVelomobileChannel You mean 47 kph was provided not only by electric motor?
@@Yoggoth Yes, I was also pedaling and adding power.
@@TheVelomobileChannel i wish serial hybrid drivetrain for velomobiles existed, of course commercially available, not as demos presented by some startups.
While they may have some lag (which we could observe on some demo video you commented back in the days), they could eliminate some cons of traditional drivetrains. No chain, no derailleurs (after I tried Alfine 8, I’m not a fan of planetary gears in bicycles), regenerative braking, very flexible characteristic (for example based on produced torque, not only rpm related) which can be modeled in software.
@@robertredziak6461 Ahem... there is Podbike exactly a serial hybrid drivetrain for ,,less money'' Search ,,Podbike FRIKAR velomobile''
Ho and thanks for thé video
Learned velomobile and recumbent bikes were a thing today and subsequently found your channel and this video, definitely pretty cool, though I do have to say, the 250w hub motor on this is pretty disappointing, I'd be interested in seeing what a decent mid-drive motor could do however, such as a 750w bafang or their bbshd 1000w, combine with a significantly bigger pair of batteries, that 48 seems pretty weak for that, granted I'm an American, and like all Americans, I believe the more power the better, so my ideas are a bit biased 😁
Sounds awfully american 😄
But on a streamlined and efficient velomobile, like this one, you don’t need that much power. At least on flat area like this. But on mountains it’s of course bit different 😄
Many EU countries limit bikes to 250 watt and pedal assist.
Otherwise it fallls subject to a whole lot or rules and regulations and needs a drivers license
I like the elf better
I would like to watch but cannot listen that rally english 🙃
The whole point of biking is the view and fresh air for fun and the view and sounds for safety. Sitting down inside a box looks boring and dangerous. Maybe ok on a dedicated track but not for everyday life. IMO
My riding with upright ended as soon as I got DFXL. It made my cycling territory a whole lot bigger, so much more to experience.
Plus, when riding velomobile, there's no head wind. You only see upright guys fighting against it, and pass them even easier.
Visibility from velomobile is better than sitting in a car. You can smell the nature as if you were riding a bicycle also.
Yes, there is lots of drivetrain and tyre noise in a rolling velomobile but the wind noise on the other hand is much smaller.
Rainy weather harms you less, thanks to the closed structure, drivetrain stays clean in any weather condition (DF), so it doesn't wear as much...
There simply is so much to like when riding with a velomobile 🙂
You definitely need to ride a velomobile. IMO will change ;)
Too much money for our budget