The double fisherman's knot and the barrel knot are just constrictor knots tied on their respective standing parts. They seem easier to remember that way assuming one has familiarity with the constrictor knot.
Exactly. How the F some of these knuckleheads can downvote this video is beyond me. Perhaps it has to do with some misleading blogosphere information about the Fig-8. Richard tests all knot configurations.
I never knew about that bad way to tie a butterfly. I could’ve missed that too many times. I’m definitely gonna keep an eye out for that amongst new rope access techs
good explain on figure of 8 but I am not do agree on perfect figure 8 that you say incorrect final setting for perfect 8 short tail will stay under long tail and not flat like in VDO.
No, That is completely unnecessary. All references to that information (loading the inside vs the outside strand of the F8) pretty much go back to once source which claims that "there may be 10% in strength however this is difficult to prove in tests". I have tested many, many knots and have not been able to observe this difference. There is no difference.
The reason is not strength. When the inside strand of the knot is loaded, the outside strand is slowly pushed out from the knot. Rigging F8 with the short end of the outside strand can lead to serious problems when prolonged works.
I can't post pics of my test here but, when loaded to 3kN the loaded outside strand "pops" inside the inside strand anyway and the knot becomes almost impossible to untie. I have no issue with either of the two strands being used. The majority of times knots are poorly dressed and, if a knot was going to come undone, we would have seen this by now.
With a significant steady-static load, everything is fine with any arrangement of strands. I agree. A small load, fluctuations on the rope (frequent ascents-descents on one segment) for a long time (hours) - and the knot slowly pushes the outside unloaded strand. I personally watched. There is an opinion that even for F8 you need to knit a control knot in some of our mountaineering schools.
In short: reefs aren't secure and are weaker than fisherman's (both are called knots but are actually bends). Reef knots reduce the strength of the rope down to only ~22% of what it would be without any knots. The fisherman's breaks at ~31%. But the biggest issue is that reefs can untie themselves very easily: "pull one bitter end perpendicular to the line and the knot capsizes." This data is based on tests which were done twice per knot type, which you can see for yourself on Yachting Monthly. The load is increased until they snapped. The percentage is how much force was applied up to the breaking point compared to how much force the rope is rated for without any knots. Reef: 17% Reef: 27% Fisherman's: 20% Fisherman's: 41%
Dang! You’re the only one on you tube to remind us to set “and dress” the knot. A knot isn’t complete unless both are performed. 👍
The double fisherman's knot and the barrel knot are just constrictor knots tied on their respective standing parts. They seem easier to remember that way assuming one has familiarity with the constrictor knot.
Needs more likes it’s very well explained
Exactly. How the F some of these knuckleheads can downvote this video is beyond me. Perhaps it has to do with some misleading blogosphere information about the Fig-8. Richard tests all knot configurations.
EXELENT PRESENTATION. Thanks.
Thanks for the beautiful tips, as always, looking forward for these. Beautiful!
Hi
Like the Bob Ross of knots.
much fewer "happy little accidents" in rope access compared to painting!
Beatiful
I never knew about that bad way to tie a butterfly. I could’ve missed that too many times. I’m definitely gonna keep an eye out for that amongst new rope access techs
good explain on figure of 8 but I am not do agree on perfect figure 8 that you say incorrect final setting for perfect 8 short tail will stay under long tail and not flat like in VDO.
So nice
Very good explanation of these 4 knots !
Simple, proper information, right to the point..👏👏👏👍
Excellent video, Richard!
This is great.
thank you!!
Thank you.
I think, in the figure of eight, the ends need to be interchanged
No, That is completely unnecessary. All references to that information (loading the inside vs the outside strand of the F8) pretty much go back to once source which claims that "there may be 10% in strength however this is difficult to prove in tests". I have tested many, many knots and have not been able to observe this difference. There is no difference.
The reason is not strength.
When the inside strand of the knot is loaded, the outside strand is slowly pushed out from the knot.
Rigging F8 with the short end of the outside strand can lead to serious problems when prolonged works.
I can't post pics of my test here but, when loaded to 3kN the loaded outside strand "pops" inside the inside strand anyway and the knot becomes almost impossible to untie.
I have no issue with either of the two strands being used. The majority of times knots are poorly dressed and, if a knot was going to come undone, we would have seen this by now.
With a significant steady-static load, everything is fine with any arrangement of strands. I agree.
A small load, fluctuations on the rope (frequent ascents-descents on one segment) for a long time (hours) - and the knot slowly pushes the outside unloaded strand. I personally watched.
There is an opinion that even for F8 you need to knit a control knot in some of our mountaineering schools.
BoBa, please can you show a picture with the knot ok?
500mtr rope
❤
LOL, talk fast and move your hands at the same pace. Great way to teach. Maybe less coffee or some slow, deep breaths would help.
Why not just use a reef knot, as both the rope are of the same diameter?
In short: reefs aren't secure and are weaker than fisherman's (both are called knots but are actually bends). Reef knots reduce the strength of the rope down to only ~22% of what it would be without any knots. The fisherman's breaks at ~31%. But the biggest issue is that reefs can untie themselves very easily: "pull one bitter end perpendicular to the line and the knot capsizes."
This data is based on tests which were done twice per knot type, which you can see for yourself on Yachting Monthly. The load is increased until they snapped. The percentage is how much force was applied up to the breaking point compared to how much force the rope is rated for without any knots.
Reef: 17%
Reef: 27%
Fisherman's: 20%
Fisherman's: 41%