Classical music is just music. I think the problem starts with seeing it strictly as a genre and therefore a niche. My training was in ballet, so I certainly heard a lot of classical music in the studio. But it was also still very present in TV ads, cartoons, films, restaurants, elevators, etc. Even pop music was objectively more melodic. All of this helped to cultivate the ears of everyone, not just die-hard aficionados and snobs. I think the problem is truly humongous because we are entering into a largely unmusical era. When artificial sounds that don't have anything to do with real instruments or the human voice have taken over to such an extent, then all forms of music will sound foreign to younger people. To answer your question from the beginning: is classical music worth saving? Yes. Absolutely. It is a good in our world and a good is by definition worth saving.
People have been saying this for generations. Cheap seats to the symphony or opera cost less than the cheapest high end pop concert. And btw classical musicians do tour. Soloists do nothing but tour. Big orchestras tour as well.
I think she was emphasizing, that they used to tour with their own original music. Pop artistst tour to spread their own music. Orchestras don't need to tour, as the music is avaible everywhere. You don't need the Sydney Symphony Orchestra in Berlin to perform Beethoven. But you do need "Taylor Swift" in Berlin to perform her music. Soloists tour, but the "only" thing they provide is old concertos (which I love, but let's face it, it's old!)
@@jameshaydn3341 a great orchestra/conductor provides their own unique interpretation of standard repertoire. Not to mention that they often play obscure music people hadn’t heard or even commission new music.
As a musician new music needs to make me feel like I'm not just pulling out the Abhans and drilling exercises. Recently played at an National Brass band competition and the set piece we had to play felt just like that. Even though it was a brand new composition
@@magiclover9346 I think your comment "As a musician" emphasises what this debate is really about. Musicians are dissatisfied with classical music if it doesn't give them a chance for a remunerative career with reasonable working conditions and/or a chance of self-actualisation. And to be fair it won't for most people. Cait Frizzel is making her comments following a vocal accident. An ungenerous person, like myself, might say her sentiment of "Classical Music Is Dying" is an example of sour grapes. As a consumer/listener I don't see it this way. I have more than enough classical music which I can listen to cheaply at any time and more than enough for the future if I want to expand my habits. So if you consider yourself a musician think about the art form from the point of view of the millions of little people. An art form isn't worthwhile if its not listened to and I'm not bothered if musicians feel there is nothing in it for them.
To survive, classical music has to be advertized at least with the same intensity as the modern music is. Once you form the taste of the children they will like it. So, easy. So, schools, TV, Radio, .... all that should be full of classical music. Those are the 'taste forming institutions'. The question is: Why these institutions do not do that?
Very good question...I mean if . modern day patrons are going to commission new works and concerts, why not promote these people and events??? It's like she said in the video, maybe they just don't want 15 year girls on Tik Tok during Rachmaninoff and so they keep it elite on purpose...we need a new system of patronage devoted to living composers and the recently deceased
Bugs Bunny cartoons really helped boomers and Gen X get exposed to classical music. Fact of the matter is that people will like classical music if it's presented in a way that's fun and engaging. I think one of the big problems is the very academic-focused and high brow culture that accompanies classical music. It's difficult for the average joe to get into and when people try, they are sneered at by the hipsters because they happen to like Canon in D or 'The Four Seasons' as opposed to Pierrot Lunaire by Shoenberg.
to survive classical music has to die stop playing brahms and rahcmaninov over ansd over because this music is outdated and overplayed start to play modern/contemporary regularly and see what happens
I'm just a middle-class schlub who loves listening to Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky symphonies and concertos over and over again, including sometimes in person. I'm okay if movie and video game music gets thrown in the mix, as long as it's not atonal. I hope "the system" doesn't ultimately take this away.
Re "I hope "the system" doesn't ultimately take this away". They are working on it. You look like a white man! This means all the hobbies, films and music you enjoy must be replaced by the message.
What irritates me the most when it comes to Opera or Ballet is the modernization of librettos for them making them unenjoyable for younger and older audiences. How can I enjoy a fairy tale like The Magic Flute when everything is black and white and moody. Or putting Boris Godunov's plot in the middle of WW2 for artistic effect. It's simply annoying and very frustrating.
I think modern audiences are very tolerant of period pieces (or even passionate about them!) in other media such as TV and movies. If there were any reason to place Downton Abbey--or worse yet, the Lord of the Rings--in a setting that looks like the 21st century, then I might be more inclined to believe that there's a reason to modernize something like the Magic Flute. (As for vocal style, however, is it possible that the classical vocal style is a compromise between the need to sing beautifully and the need to make one's self heard over an orchestra without a microphone? Because that compromise may just be obsolete at this point.)
I am primarily an opera composer. I want my operas set in the periods I set them. Period. This kind of silly crap kills the dramas. It's pretentious and plays intot he whole "elitism" argument. "Oh we are just SO BORED with Carmen. Let's set it in outer space and have a 6'4" countertenor with a beard play her. And while we're at it let's set the whole thing in a bowling alley in the 1950s." Barf. The music is married to the drama in opera or ballet, just as it is in film score or even video games. It has to make sense in dramatic context. The setting is part of what makes an opera effective. Those "modernized" staging ruin the artform.
Its a common pattern, seen in Disney films too, alienate an existing audience to appeal to a different "modern" audience which may or may not exist. Unfortunately all you can do is not bother to go anymore which is sad for everybody. But hey the self-actualisation of the producers and cast is way more important than the audience.
So true! It's like a double whamy.. not only has the appeal of opera been lost to many, but the specific appeal that makes opera opera, opera is voluntarily giving up 😂. So that's a loss of not only the people who would lose interest no matter what you do (due to cultural shifts, etc.), but also the fans who are disappointed and even subconsciously don't see the point of going anymore. The visuals have degraded, the singing has degraded, so what do you go for.. to hear the orchestra?? That will eventually feel like a rip-off to most. The human soul craves beauty. But they're giving us a counterfeit - ugliness, an imposter we have to accept in its place
I majored in composition. The HUGE problem in the academic world is the emphasis on atonal music. Audiences do not want to hear it. Composers are encouraged to emulate Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg, instead of Hayden, Mozart, and Beethoven.
Atonal is absolute suicide if classical music wants to survive lol I can’t stand it. It’s so bad .. I put it next to death screamo metal on my personal list of music I really dislike lol
@@PeaceNinja007 does nikos skalkottas count as an atonal composer? i think his music is pretty good and definitely tolerable to the average person in the street
Hear me: Anime and Video game orchestras are and will thrive even more in the future. Because story is KING. And this is the relatability to the audience. Also some of the best music I have heard comes from these and the meaning*** behind it due to the story and characters. I have discovered some of my favourite composers of all time because of them. Some scores are better than the animation itself and even the story. Keep an eye out for this.
Well said...and I love your optimistic outlook in this direction...if more living composers, who may not be writing for Anime or video games, could think more about STORY...they would be more successful too (new relevant operas, ballet scenes, symphonic poems, etc) today's audiences need guidance in this way, you're absolutely right!!!
You really have no clue. All of this is being done on purpose by bad actors. They want to tear down the foundations of society. It's called the fifth column.
I love a melody, a tune. I've listened to new composers works and the ones I've listened to seem anti-melody. It's like they've been taught/instructed at their conservatoires that having a great melodic musical hook in their compositions is 'common' or low class, populist etc and should be avoided at all costs or they won't be taken seriously as a composer. I hope the contemporary composers have other skills because their lack of listenable music output isn't going to sustain a composing career.
This is not as true as it used to be, but still...a very good point. If you think of the more recently 'popular' composers, like John Adams, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Arvo Part and John Luther Adams, they have absolutely brilliant ideas and textures, but even they generally avoid the 'tune', and it does seem like academia still encourages originality over listenability, even if the serial methods aren't stressed as 'the way' as much as before...but I agree, melody needs to make a serious comeback in modern classical music. Composers should try to not worry so much about their peers and start writing music that they themselves would actually want to hear...then maybe we will have a new syntax
The symphony orchestra for the region i live in recently performed "die zauberflöte" for a family audience, which was in Danish instead of German and with an introduction to the story before. Ticket prices were an absolute steal too at, like, 13€ for adults and 6€ for children. The hall was packed to the brim with families with children and elders alike. So I think this might be one way to go. It somewhat keeps the musical integrity in my opinion, while also being friendly towards new listeners.
That is something I see as a solution. The modernization to the max of classical music is something I don't like. Imagine going to a classical concert and seeing blinding lights and a see of fog. That is just distracting and takes away form the performance itself
Wow imagine like there was this magical thing called "music", something that has enough subtlety, nuance, complexity, that it allows for many perspectives, many interpretations, many feelings. Imagine an artistic manifestation that isn't just a disposable consumer product. What a wonderful thing that would be. 04:50 Why do you judge classical pieces by the same standards than four chords repeated over three minutes with some rhymed tropes overlayed? Why do you willfully ignore the idea of interpretation?
0.39 - I have never heard a single classical musician say this. Maybe the labels, but certainly not the musicians. Those few musicians that do say this don't get hired back after a little while. 2:28 - I really don't know what albums you're listening to. What albums sound muddy? Those volume changes might be the dynamic changes that are written in the music. I seriously doubt the producer is going ham at the controls and playing with the levels... 3:27 - "We want stereo sound!" Yes, as opposed to the mono sound that classical albums use....except they are also recorded in stereo sound. Mono hasn't been around for sometime now. I find it funny where she mentions the soundproof studio booth because I'm trying to imagine the logistical challenges with recording an ensemble. What do you do? Book the studio for a few years and give each musician a change to record their parts without letting them listen to their peers play with them? 3:45 - Really? Seriously? Apparently classical musicians are so stuck in the past that we haven't figured out the magic that is...anything greater than 1080p video quality. 4:40 - "It's never original music." David Bruce would like to have a word with you. While I do admit that contemporary music in the classical sphere does not get the coverage it sorely deserves, it's a bit foolish to say that "It doesn't exist." 7:05 - The practice of performing older composers works instead of primarily focusing on contemporary composers occurred earlier than that. Even when this happened though, there was still an emphasis on new music that doesn't exist today. Composers that had multiple works successfully premiere after 1900: Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Copeland, Bernstein, Ives. Contemporary music has had less focus, but it's not just because older music is performed. 7:45 - There you go again pretending contemporary classical music doesn't exist. 10:00 - Ensembles do tours. They may not be as frequent as pop artists, but they do exist. The pay scale of a musician varies greatly depending on where you look. Musicians in one of the big 5 might have a six figure salary (w/ the conductor making way too much money), but there are a variety of regional orchestras where the musicians make a fraction of that sum. Every ensemble is different and has a different financial situation. They're not one in the same here. 10:40 - This...really depends on where you're going to concerts. A ticket to the MET Opera will attract a different audience than that of your local symphony orchestra. 12:26 - Ownership model? You realize pop artists are owned by record companies with rich CEOs right? Also, a ticket to a symphony orchestra concert will often be cheaper than a ticket to any artist in the top 10 right now. I challenge you to look up your local symphony or other classical ensemble and check ticket prices. If it was truly only "For the elite", then the prices would at least match what Ariana Grande charges right? As a side note, your sources are very odd. The first source is from 2021 and it a short blog post that is filled with conjecture. It makes the case that classical music is dying because of a few UT performances that didn't have large audiences (during a pandemic) and because of when it was written, it couldn't use any sources from a year later that show a little more positive outlook on classical music. The next two sources are a decade old and the final one is a Classic FM article that makes the case that classical music dying is hyperbole due to something new apparently killing it sprouting up every few years or so.
Don't get me wrong. I understand what this video is attempting to do. It's just makes so many wrong assumptions about classical music as it has existed, and currently exists, that the video seems completely pointless. For example, blaming the performance of dead composers music seems weird when you take into account that this has been the case since Felix Mendelssohn conducted the Gewandhaus Orchestra in the 1830s. The last time I checked, there were a lot of composers after 1830 that were successful in their careers (The big 5 in Russia, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Copeland, Bernstein, and too many more to list here).
"Composers that had multiple works successfully premiere after 1900: Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Copeland, Bernstein, Ives. Contemporary music has had less focus, but it's not just because older music is performed. " And you forgot to mention RACHMANINOFF!!! His piano concertos are gorgeous and have become a sort of rite of passage for every concert pianist. Not to mention LOTS of vocal choral and solo music! And of course Prokofiev too. It's almost hard to believe, in fact, that they didn't exist before that. 😂. Of course a lot has happened culturally since then, and i wouldn't say it's for the best, but we have yet to see what the 21st century will produce none the less. But of course the really great ones don't come except in handfuls per century, so perhaps people look too hard to find something special in every musician that writes a line of music the least bit known, getting all worked up that we're only paying 'old ones'. That never happened centuries ago and all the more so we shouldn't expect it now either. Great composers are great because they're rare and exceptional, and that will always be the case. 90% are always forgotten in a few decades. Nothing new, and that's normal.
The need to impose consumerism on everything is the problem - the heritage of over a millennium of music isn’t solved by pandering to consumers just as with Jingju, Gagaku, Shinto temples etc- I indeed do blame the “consumer” - not everything exists for your tittilation, however much the USA wishes otherwise. And no classical music is not an “industry”. It’s centuries of our history. And another very important point is that the view that Western classical music is dying is quite parochial as it’s growing like crazy in China, compared to which the USA is barely a blip.
I took over our Community Symphony last season (2022-2023) We are all amateurs. (I have my Masters in Music Education, but was a pianist and classical guitarist with a bit of musicology in my background.) We have people coming from larger cities to play with our group, because we do a variety of less difficult music from Baroque standards through 10 year old movie and tonal classical music. We also play popular standards. I think, for our audience, anyway, the length of the pieces and the length of the concert make a difference. We are now doing thematic concerts of five to seven shorter pieces from different eras in 75 to 90 minute concerts (including intermission, which includes refreshments, a nice place to sit and chat with friends, and players going out to mingle with audience members.) This season we featured Vivaldi in our March concert, and Mancini in our April concert. Tonal and tuneful and really appreciated by the musicians and the audience. Next season, I'm programing Litvinovsky and Andrew Lloyd Weber in November, and trying to get us into Helvi Leiviska for the spring. I always throw a standard classical composer into every program, too. Our musicians range in age from 15 to 75. The biggest gain in membership is the 23 to 35 year old cohort. Think about it - you can work with other people without having to be 'social' - or you can be social, if you want. You work together to reach a goal and create a thing of beauty. You are important to the final project, but if you've had a rough day, other musicians are there to support you and help you lose your problems for a couple of hours while you let your anxious brain function to make sense of a puzzle that IS solvable. You can tell your spouse, "this is my weekly scheduled time to be an adult, and it's your night to stay home with the preschooler and baby." I honestly believe the mental health benefits of recreating this complex beauty together are so relevant to society today. I know this isn't the big 'business' side of highly trained musicians going on tours and playing impossibly technical masterpieces, but I think it's where classical music always has to have a presence if it's going to survive. And - let's face it - this music will change and disappear just as all of humanity's cultural icons do. We don't know what the music of Ancient Rome or Greece really sounded like. We have descriptions, but we have not experienced it. Some day, if humanity survives, this music will fade completely, or change and become something different. That's the way of the world.
My opinion on this is that a lot of people don’t just listen to music because they like the sound. People have a lot of preconceived notions about what kind of music is meant for what kind of person. It’s a part many peoples self image and what subculture they feel they belong to and some people will only listen to the music of their subculture. This could be because they identify as a skate boarder, punk person, goth, or hip-hip aficionado. A lot of people perceive classical music as hoity-toity, uptight and for rich old people. If people just listened to what they thinks sounds good with no preconceived notions and paid attention to how it makes them feel, classical music would be extremely popular.
Oh my! In the first five minutes you've summed up exactly what I've been feeling deep inside for years as an performer. I wasn't even aware of it until you put it into words. Now I'll keep watching. I just had to tell you this right away.
I'm a classical organist and I don't go to classical concerts anymore. Once in a while I've been because someone wanted someone to go with, and at my last church in the UK where I played, both I and the priest were leaving around the same time so we had a staff outing to the Wigmore Hall to hear the Schumann Quartet, so it's not like it never happens, but I definitely don't seek it out. The atmosphere is so oppressive, you overhear old men patronising their wives with all kinds of trivia about the music in the concert which is usually wrong, and I'm an organist: making music involves my *whole body*, so sitting still for the duration of a concert while music is playing drives me mad. When I listen at home I groove along, conduct in the air, shake my booty; the environment of the concert hall makes me feel enormously distant from the thing I love above anything else. I do still go to organ recitals, though. They are usually a bit more informal just because the spaces are much larger and less crowded (because, honestly, who goes to organ recitals?) and the organ is pretty loud, so you can shuffle about, and you'd never even hear someone "shush" you. Why would I pay money to sit in misery when I can listen at home, stuffing my face with naan breads and headbanging to the Firebird?
I know that some time ago in Amsterdam they held piano concerts in cafe's and bars. One of the reasons why they did that was because there were plenty of people in their 20's and 30's who were into classical, however, they didn't like going to fancy places to listen to it. I really like classical and jazz (which was even lower on that chart), but the snobby people who go to these (fancy) events really turn me off. To me, a world without these 2 genres of music being performed would be a less beautiful world, so I really hope they can reinvent themselves.
Agreed!! I'm 24 and the worst part about the concerts is the audience. Pretentious, snobby, judgy. I still go, usually alone, practice ignoring or talking back at them every single time.
I started listening to symphonic metal bands like Epica and Haggard. I loved the voices and instruments, because of that I started listening to classical music and now im a huge fan of Opera. So in my case, it was metal music that made me love classical music
I went from rock and punk to Classical back in the early 1980s. I was seduced by the heaviest stuff, Wagner and Beethoven in particular. Later I went on to be an opera composer.
The overlap between classical and metal is pretty strong - most of my metal-loving friends also like classical music. Both genres stress instrumental elements (and virtuosity), high drama, and (at this point) are somewhat outside of the mainstream. And, classical music has been a big influence on metal since its formative years of bands like Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, and Scorpions.
Kids give me hope. Having played many classical chamber concerts for outdoor events and schools, I've found lots of children are fascinated by the instruments and want to know more about them. They come up to the musicians wide-eyed after performances and ask great questions. Sometimes they'll ask "How do you turn it on?" They don't understand that acoustic instruments don't use electricity. So cute!
as a kid myself, I've never met another kid who's so fascinated with classical music in person. i love practicing music, and i love to get people into listening great music, like Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Chopin, Beethoven, Bach, Scriabin and i succeed every time. i think the problem is that people don't really explore the genre at all, but every time i help them find their taste in classical music, they just can't stop listening to it.
Interesting video but I think a lot of the points were iffy. The most problematic point though is the comparison of classical to bruno mars and other artists all doing the same elvis cover over and over. You stated this yourself correctly with the nutcracker example: this is not about the musicians, its about the composer or piece itself. The fact that there are multiple different performances of something just makes it more accessible rather than redundant as your point implies. Also the fact that orchestral works get replayed isnt really an issue either because since classical has existed for so long, its not really starved for content, there are so many incredible works that rarely get played, in a given year its very hard to find a single performance in the US for say Bruckner 1 for instance. Ive listened to so much classical and it would still take the rest of my life to continue to uncover still such a small part of it. The biggest issue is that when people think about classical music they think about the most cliche and boring pieces, and when its "made modern", its just the boring stuff rehashed in a slightly more modern way, yet ultimately still cliche and overplayed. Everybody and their mothers know a grand total of 4 notes from Beethoven 5, but what about the rest? Pomp and circumstance, played at graduations, has an amazing second theme that nobody knows because the first part is played on a loop. Bach Toccatta and Fugue, same thing, the media just covers the opening 5 seconds of it. People would like classical music if it were given the spotlight and attention on the world stage. We dont need something new, because already nobody knows Shostakovich or Bruckner or Mahler or Prokofiev (and soooo many more I could keep listing). The work these legends have produced are some of the most beautiful, epic, grandiose, powerful, and absolutely mind blowing earth shattering music to exist, but they are vastly unknown to the general public. The concert halls do their job of programming it, but people dont go because they dont give it a chance. In their minds they have already associated classical with some trivial early classical baroque style of music when really its so much more. That is the problem. Making something "new" where somebody is just rehashing Vivaldi 4 seasons (which is funnily enough the bruno mars example) is not going to fix this.
In education, in the UK at least, 'classical' music is considered only one of many 'world' musics (sic) (and sick). Joe Soap and his mates are made to study a Shakespeare play or two, but not a Mozart symphony or, heaven forbid, a Shostakovich string quartet! Critical listening (nowadays contaminated by critical theory - not of itself, of course) is for deconstructing and destroying, not for learning, challenging and inspiring. Thanks for your excellent comment!
Excellent points! Unfortunately this state of affairs is accompanied by 'nobody cares', because music today is just a backdrop and those who control the cultural ecosystem keep it that way. Don't anybody dare stop and listen to anything complex or deep for even a minute, it might cause the 'wrong' kind of inner transformations. People don't go even to rock concerts to listen, but more to get strong sensations of a primitive nature that act as a catalyst for the rest of their lives .. made of similar substance. But more often than not music is just a superficial background phenomenon and nothing more. That has been pretty much accepted, so how are you going to convince anybody to dedicate some span of attention to 'listening'. Way too much effort.
good point! most ppl only know like two composers max and there are still so many composers that rarely even get performed at concert halls. not sure how to get more people to know about these composers though. i think early childhood music education can help though
Modern concert band composers have figured out that people want rhythm and melody and they are producing some of the finest classical music of the past century. Frank Ticheli, Omar Thomas, John Mackey, Adam Schoenberg, and more are writing music that teenagers are falling in love with. Groups like the @DallasWinds are recording this music and making it available to everyone. If we can ride this lull out, there is hope.
@@__-fu5sethese guys also do quality work for orchestra, Ticheli especially. Orchestra music directors need to get on board that all music doesn’t have to be “challenging”. Quality music can also be enjoyable. I had a professor that referred to a lot of new music as “wrong notes and drums”. I think we are past that now, but people need to be able to make sense of it. Aubrey Bergauer’s studies show people fail to return because they didn’t know what was going on. We should do better job of telling them what they are hearing and if it may sound “challenging”, why it does so and it’s ok.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Classical music lovers like music not because it is ""relevant" but because it is beautiful, because it gives pleasure, and it continues ro do so after hundreds of years. Unfortunately, I really don't know how you get people to experience this pleasure. In my own case, when I was 15 my best friend became enamored of it, so I gave it a try and was smitten. Now, 77 years later, it still gives me intense pleasure, whether trough headphones on RUclips or in person at the concert hall; and I am still happiest seeing the Marriage of Figaro yet again in a traditional performance that does not attempt to be "relevant!"
She doesn't know how to distinguish great music from good music. The reason the music of masters such as Beethoven and Mozart is still around up to this day is because it is music that has stood the test of time. Her knowledge and experience of Western art music may be so limited that's why she thinks this way about Western art music.
@@PM_ME_MESSIAEN_PICS I think that people who enjoyed Figaro at the time didn't do so primarily because of its "relevance." After all, the primary audience did not consist of the oppressed masses.But that's just my opinion; and there are many operas that never had any "relevance," yet have remained popular over the centuries.
@@yon8378 could it then be that other forms of music that are more relevant than opera became more popular? but I will have to agree with what you said
@@PM_ME_MESSIAEN_PICS Basically I dislike thhe word "relevant." Relevant to what? I believe that the only legitimate role of art is to give pleasure. If it does so it has fulfilled its purpose.
I studied composition and classical guitar performance in conservatory school for a decade. Earned multiple degrees in both my undergraduate and graduate years. And honestly, I ended up quitting the entire genre. I now play more rock, metal, jazz, funk, jam, and pretty avoid classical altogether. Why? Two main reasons: 1. The scene really is dying. There's therefore almost zero job opportunities in this field of classical music. And the two jobs I DID have as a teacher I lost, due to the fact that many of these schools unfortunately lost so much money in their programs recently, they couldn't find adjunct like myself after a year or so. 2. It's really not a stereotype that classical musicians are very elitist. I've experienced first hand the extreme levels of borderline narcissist personality disorder from many of these overly wealthy, yuppie prodigies, and snobby professors. It's pretty insufferable to be around those people, so honestly that was a major turning point in my genre switch.
Oh man, I’m sorry that was your experience. 😣 It sounds similar to mine too, it’s such a shame that such beautiful music has gotten wrapped up in so much nonsense. I was definitely one of those elitist musicians. If I hadn’t injured myself, god knows what kind of person I would have wound up becoming. I hope you feel more at home in your new genre work. 🙏
Opposite for me. Being Asian, ofc my parents forced Classical Piano down my throat. But during my teen years I rebelled, went all in on guitar playing rock, metal and jazz. Now, I'm in my 30s, going back to my classical roots, playing Classical Piano pieces. Sure, I never attended any conservatories, so I don't know how stuffy those people are; but I definitely find Classical music way more interesting than rock, metal or jazz.
Went to Konzerthuset Copenhagen with my 16 year old son. And guess what? He loved Ligeti and Messiaen, wasn't excited about Haydn. I think it has to do with "Hörgewohnheiten" and concert halls would be very wise to address this curiosity in more modern classical music among younger generations. And most importantly to invite people to be part of the conversation (e.g. explaining the music)
This was a very insightful video!! I totally agree - people absolutely will always like classical music as it remains a unique way to very effectively tell story i.e. film scores plus the music is just good. It's the presentation that needs to be modernized. Easier said than done but with patience and inspiration I think it really can stay alive. Also amazing and fun editing!!
This is pretty spot on. Classical music recordings are terrible, especially for listening with headphones. Who wants to turn the volume up to 100 so you can hear an entire orchestra playing so softly that it's like a whisper, only to have your ears blown out a minute later? Classical composers write terrible music that no one wants to hear, for about the last hundred years.
I feel like this video would’ve HEAVILY benefited from including examples of living composers (that aren’t film composers) who do write music audiences love, and know how to navigate the space of music in the 21st century. Max Richter, Christopher Cerrone, Mason Bates, and Takashi Yoshimatsu, just to name a few. Their music is much more digestible than what people typically think of contemporary classical music. This video left out a whole world of composers who are living today and are writing classical music. And the best part about their music? It doesn’t sound like something written 200 years ago. It still sounds new, and general audiences can enjoy and understand it (unlike the music of Boulez, Fernyhough, Stockhausen, etc.). I think having modern composers write in the style of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc, is definitely not the solution. It will only sound like an imitation of older styles, and therefore still not be relevant to today. Composers need to write classical music that is still new, but that audience can enjoy. And there are composers already doing that. We just need more
You are absolutely right on this point...there IS new music being written for the old acoustic ensembles (sometimes integrated with electronics) by living composers who aren't serialists and it's fantastic, but it gets no real promotion so the general public has no idea its out there!!! Besides the ones you mentioned, also definitely check out the new works by Andrew Norman, Caroline Shaw, and Saad Haddad just to name a few more...it's not about rehashing Mozart Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, but its also not about abstract incoherence either...new composers don't have any rules to follow anymore, literally ANYTHING GOES today, so you can make a concerto or tone poem that incorporates melody *gasp*, functional harmony, but with some modern extensions, a narrative or fanciful title, a hidden tone row, a brief atonal episode for contrast, all done with impressionistic harmonies in a Minimalist type texture, and there's nothing wrong with that, or anybody stopping you!!! So as living composers we must be honest and appropriate to ourselves, know that any and everything is up for grabs, and just starting writing with genuine enthusiasm again, and NO FEAR OF MELODIES!!!
Some interesting and nuanced ideas here, and thank for you setting these out. Perhaps another interesting question connected to that of relevance is that of 'where is the value?' Starting from the point of asking how our musicking and even what kind of musicking can bring value to our audiences, and then doing some musicking that brings that value. This would also tie into your point about taking the music TO the audience, but instead places the audience first and asks 'what is the value in a musical experience for you?'
Thank you so much for this video! I'm a young musician who is very much in love with classical tradition, but not that one of 20th century, but of those centuries before when people composed and performed, improvised their own music. I write, improvise and perform only my music. 🥰
Classical musicians have always been poor, many of the great composers barely scraped by and were not appreciated until after they died. Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. His music didn't die. If anything, CM is much more alive and widespread now than it ever was, the music of Mozart et al. is enjoyed by far more people today than ever before. And it seems like Early Music using period instruments is continuing to grow. I'm sure composers from the Renaissance to the Romantic never imagined their music would survive this long and be appreciated all around the world. Thanks to RUclips and IMSLP I continually discover music from previous centuries that is "new" to me.
A very interesting point you just made with the recording thing, nowadays with commercial music we get the sound "in your face" clean and punchy, but for example, last week I was watching/listening Atmospheres by Ligeti and... it was like everybody in the concert hall had tuberculosis, they totally ruined the recording :(
Room sound: that's such a great point!! I've always loved piano solo (I play piano) but I also think I prefer listening to solo recordings like piano or cello partly because you can hear the rich little details of the instrument (e.g. hammer sounds of the piano). A full orchestra probably loses this detail because of what you pointed out.
I've just recently begun composing, not academically trained and entirely self taught, and trying to get started as an original composer is daunting. I don't have the skills to play the works i write, so I'm left to ask others to do so, and most musicians know the odds of money are low. And i also compose in the "archaic" styles of classical music, not modern atonal. I would argue to solve the death of classical music will take people seeing the composer differently. Most people don't take the word seriously anymore, or when they do, they expect this "greatness" like you're the second coming of Mozart. Musicians and composers will need to work together, it's not about "going solo" anymore. I think strong composing/performing pairs will be a way forward for the genre. Thanks for the video.
Before I respond to other points I'd just like to say that I've gone through some other videos you have and have really enjoyed your content and videos. It's always interesting to hear thoughts and view points on this subject, even if I disagree with some of it. I really appreciate the effort and thoughtfulness you've put into your videos.
I think you're talking about "professional classical music" here. But most classical music, in terms of hours played, and listened, and sung, and acted, is amateur, and that's the stuff that gives people pleasure and, for kids, a great start in life. We're forming a (UK) group called "Campaign for Music", following the moves by the BBC to cut back on its professional groups (orchestras, choirs) and also the relentless education cutbacks in music education (ie instrumental and choral teaching) that's been going on for the past 20 years. I think things are different in different parts of Europe (and other parts of the world. China may be doing very well, for instance. Africa remains pretty untapped, I believe: at least, we don't see many classical musicians from that part of the world.) (Also consider the world of Theatre - we still do Old Plays, even if the proportion of New Plays is much higher than in Classical Music. But the world of theatre is much more flexible, so I think that part of your argument is spot on. BUT you still need classical musicians for your sound backing... and they have to learn somewhere. Which is what our campaign is about, its about maintaining a flow of money to ensure thaere's still a network of inspirational teachers, organisers, conductors etc. )
I feel like classical music as a genre is getting inherited by video games and movie music. More and more I see orchestras and even opera singers traveling on tours for specially good BGM's. The composers tend to have a background in it too, or take a lot of inspiration from. They are very interesting to listen and the recordings are excellent
Lovely, i think the reason audiences aren't tuning in to classical music is much more insideous ... people aren't playing music or singing themselves anymore. In the past everyone sang at church . People would play folk instruments down the pub. "Musicians" were those fancy orchestra people. But in reality most people made music themselves even if it was whistling. Not sure if you have noticed but happy birthday is not sung as confidently in the past. You can appreciate the experience of watching a sport ... yet if you have never played it yourself you don't appreciate it as much as you could. For instance watching cricket is popular here in Australia because most Australians have played backyard cricket ... yet American audiences don't get cricket because they haven't played it themselves. I'm in my forties went to church as a kid played flute in a school band and was in the choir. - classical music is accessible to me because i played Minuet in G . Did you know pop music is dying too? The streaming model is killing album sales. But i think all commercial music is dying because people have lost their ability to sing and to play music.
An important point! In the 19th and early 20th century, lots of people had pianos at home, and piano music was at its zenith because those who played the piano, if only a little, knew how to appreciate it. Later came instruments like the saxophone, and jazz became very popular. In the second half of the 20th century it was the electric guitar and rock music. Now so many youngsters don't play any musical instrument at all and therefore don't appreciate the music made with them. What consequently dominates is machine-produced pop.
That is unfortunately, absolutely true imho...a new initiative, like the old "Save the Music" is needed so bad, along with an updated approach to music appreciation to supplement a new curriculum
Sharing a thought because of the headphones thing... don't ditch the music, ditch the headphones! On a hi-fi stereo, the intimacy and high dynamic range of the recordings create a startling realness that can be "seen" just as much as heard. Placement of instruments is easily distinguished, and the glorious spaciousness of the recording venues places you right there in the middle. The most subtle nuances of sound and movement are revealed. You won't just hear the bow move, you'll hear how they're moving it. I know that sounds mystical... it's hard to fully describe. Cheers :)
I think it was Mozart who said, (and I paraphrase with at least a bit of abandon--but not so much as to put something into his mouth that he wouldn't have said) music needs to be both original AND beautiful. By beautiful, of course, he meant something people want to listen to, will go out of their way to listen to, will PAY to listen to. Incidentally, Wolf was pretty good at putting his money where his mouth was at.
The fact is not that there is less good music. It's just enough. Rather, the majority of people have simply different needs in music. I think it’s quite normal that some track without much meaning or musical content gains billions in popularity compared to new classic masterpieces. Classical music has not always been in such great demand. It is worth accepting the fact that the era has already been replaced by a completely different era. We no longer wear wigs or ride in carriages. The world has changed and so the culture is changing. From this point of view, music finds a new way of expression. Now I'm talking specifically about the modern movement. On the one hand, it causes a lot of contradictions, on the other hand, it helps to understand that the past remains the past and we will not return to it again, it is lost. Still, let's be honest, today's acoustics, instruments, and performers are not at all the same as under Bach, Mozart or Chopin. Everything is constantly changing. I think Chopin might not have recognized his works after hearing them at any world competition
Excellent Cait. Just discovered your YT site. As a product of the Royal Academy of music I’ve often asked myself why Classical musical has fallen from grace at so many levels. Whilst Rock n Roll has been my path since then I watch in awe my ‘classical’ friends continuing to pursue surely the toughest of musical careers. I find myself agreeing with your points of view wholeheartedly and commend your optimistic suggested ‘fix’. Keep up the great work !
Film or game score is the driving force behind appreciation for classical in my opinion if you yourself are not a musician. A big issue is that if your art isn't written for a particular audience that actually currently exists, then don't be surprised you don't end up with one. The expectation of everyone else to care about the thing you care about so much is very arrogant. Expression without an audience in mind is just screaming into the void.
Imo it is not. I can play Dark Souls all day long and at the end might not recover one single piece of music. Older video games didn't for the most try to emulate your "classical" music at all. Even with movies. The harder the music score composers try the more I get bored. Good luck sticking to your classical music nonsense. I enjoy video games and movies for the actual content. I even mute the music most of the time and play my own stuff to create a real fitting atmosphere, not this distracting nonsense.
@@niemand7811 good for you :). Your experience applies to you, but my comment was about how classical has succeeded and where it is failing, not about how much you personally can't stand soundtracks.
I use my experience of playing and singing early music (mostly medieval styles) to create new settings of ancient saga material - new music with old instruments. People who wouldn't normally go to hear a 12C harp and a classical voice hear something different at a local festival and become insterested - it's fun to do and even more fun to chat with audiences about what's involved. I'm nearly seventy and embrace new ways of working - I never liked the old ways to start with!
Came across this video and can totally get your points! Classical music really emphasizes the role of composers instead of performers while today's music does the exact opposite.
Old-school jazz emphasizes the role of performers, but it's nothing like today's popular music... This stuff emphasizes personalities and physical attributes of the performers rather than their ability to actually perform music, which is a situation that doesn't even lie on the scale you're describing.
I think it was around 1985, the Royal Opera House staged opera prom, 6 nights of Mozart's best 3 operas, starring dame Kiri, Ruggeiro Raimondi, Thomas Allen and other big stars. Seats were removed from the stalls, so prom goers sit on the floor, and for a few pounds you got to see such performances you'd never forget. Queues for ticket would form well before noon, and would stretch from the ROH to Covent Garden plaza and beyond. Most ardent fans willing to queue for more than 8 hours were young people like myself. I don't live in the UK any more, but when ever I visit London, I would check what's on at the ROH, and it seems to me they would be very few tickets available unless you book way ahead. It's not my impression that classical music is in serious decline. I reckon Herr Mozart, Bach, Beethoven can keep going for a few hundred years more yet.
All music is dying, simply because people aren’t interested in music as they were. With so many other entertainment fields open to people today, and fewer gatekeepers, culture both high and low is becoming less important in people’s lives. But having said that, I can say that where I I’ve classical music is thriving. There are a lot of orchestras and smaller ensembles, especially in the early music field.
i know this comment is late but i want you to know that i complete agree. Also do not let the comments discourage you. It is obvious you are pointing out the literal stats of the music business that i work within. And for someone who works and knows people who literally work in the biggest music industries i can 100 % tell you that the snobbishness and the arrogance within majority of your classical musicians as well as the repetitiveness, lack of marketing and "gigs" all play apart and im so glad you hit on that. And for everyone who is downgrading her for speaking logical facts and trying to problem solve.. Shame on you, your apart of the reason ( and look this up because my god some of you guys cannot listen) that in the last 100 years classical music tickets and revenue went down 30%.. And the classical attendance ( no i am not talking Broadway and your world class 0.001 touring performers who profit enough to live off of) only sells 15% of each performance in tickets.. ( which BTW yes is much more then 80 percent of an artist's revenue ) Last take, with social media damaging youth, and our attention span declining every year by 2 percent. How can we expect someone to listen to a classical piece for even 10 minutes? BE FR. you are completely right. We have to market and be more creative if we even want a chance.
Classical music in North America was quite popular to the "common folk" well into the 70's. Why? Because you had things like the Firestone Hour, where Opera singers came on prime time TV to sing. Opera singers were on Late Night shows like Carson. Every cartoon and children's show had a classical music soundtrack. It was appreciated, marketed to, and shown to everyone. If classical music is hundreds of years old, how come in 1970 it was everywhere, and in 2020 it's nowhere? The music didn't change, the culture did. You are not incentivized to discover and study "Elite" anything anymore. Instead of being taught we must improve ourselves, learn, grow, and mature, people are being told they're perfect just the way they are, don't need no education, or refinement. If you can't be a TikToc singing star by the time you're 14 with 0 effort involved, they don't bother. Look at the Grammy winners this year. Ice Spice, Taylor Swift, Harry Styles, Cardi B. Objectively braindead, soulless music. We've failed as a culture. That's why high art is dying. We're not being taught what is good and what is not. We're not being taught to value what is good. We've failed music.
I don't know whether classical music is dying or not. I just know my new found love and adoration for it is complete. I found this love in my 50s. And being able to purchase tickets at considerably ticket prices than a football enables me to sample a number of works by numerous composers. This all started by attending the opera in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Attending the opera was a childhood dream of mine. While listening to each opera i discovered a love for Puccini and Mozart. I began to realize that many of these melodies were already familiar to me because i heard them as a child in LoonetTune cartoons or perhaps as background to a commercial or in a film. Now i could place that familiar melody with a composer. I'm able to see many symphonies by using the Passport feature with a local orchestra. I pay a flat fee to attend a set number of shows throughout the season. The orchestra features more but those additional tickets i could pay for at a discounted price. In addition to the local orchestra there is a local classical chamber orchestra season. There is an opera season. There are other works featured throughout the area including Requiems. And local churches feature various works performed on the organ. Our community has a lively classical music calendar whuch is all new to me since i just moved here. Give it time. I think attendence at classical music concerts may begin to rise in the USA. Although birth rates are falling.
Kids don't get the option to play real instruments anymore. It's all rock school drums, guitar, keyboard and vocals here in the UK. Kids don't then get to hear and play classical music which often leads to a love of all music. Where are the flautists of the future to play Syrynx. The Clarinetists to play Rhapsody in Blue, to name just two beautiful pieces destined to stay in unplayed in the future.
Masters in composition here as well - was a dissertation away from my DMA. Can't live on teaching wages, comissions are unicorns, and getting performances...unheard of. Let it be known, I have a decent sized catalog for the picking once I'm dead ;) [we all know how this works...]
Also i’m just going to say that i saw three concerts this weekend: one chamber choir (quartet), one semi-pro regional choir, and the philadelphia orchestra performing mahler 3 with joyce didonato and the philly boys choir… all of these performances were almost sold out in their respective venues….. so…….
The audience for classical music has always been predominantly older people. I'm Gen X so-called and when I was in my 20s going to concerts, it was the same. Watch concert footage from the 1940s - its the same. It is not and never will be for the masses and yes, it does take, for most, a little bit living to appreciate it. Don't be too concerned about it.
Discussions like yours always remind me of a cartoon in the New Yorker that cracked me up: A well dressed couple is walking by a marquee announcing a Symphony program, which reads...."Now playing: Brahms Symphony Nr 1 in C minor, and Wet Tee Shirt Contest".....this is a perfect parody of what you are suggesting.......
That is exactly what I am thinking, I am trying to explore the lesser known music of earlier centuries, and there is a lot, like really really a lot, and I compose from time to time, even though in ancient style, but I am serious about it I know the need to revolutionize our repertoire, and maybe our performance
Well, part of it is that classical music got increasingly esoteric....overly intellectual....one elephant in the room is atonal music....the public doesn't get it....the thing is that there is a ton of underperformed, under-recorded high quality tonal classical music being written...the conundrum is the orchestras program little of it because they feel only the tried and true brings the audience in. European classical music is still very tied to the Avant Garde. I think they have to ditch the canon to some extent and get unfrozen...and speak a musical language people can understand. The marketing aspect is one key...people like Two Set Violin have the right idea. They are showing a fun side, both honoring classical tradition and poking fun at conventions and cliches. And singers like Jacob Joseph Orlinski are great exemplars of a new classical music that appeals to a new generation. He's hot, can appear shirtless in a video, sings like an angel and he's a marvelous breakdancer... but you know talent and being marketable and beautiful don't always align. The other thing is when you talk about new music, and consumption..the marketing and demand cycle is about churning out mass produced, highly synthetic studio music...most of it consists of a few basic chords...so while the music that sells millions in streaming now is relevant-- as a species it has some currency--the songs itself are relevant for about a minute. Let's look at the reality that this video overlooks. It is a testament to the music and performers (wealthy patrons too for better or worse) that music written over 2 centuries ago is still around at all. I can tell you catagorically 99.9 percent of what is relevant now will NOT be around in 50 years. Does anybody know a pop tune that was a hit from 150 years ago? Not many. There are some old traditional songs...most older songs like church hymns have institutional continuity to account for their survival including Christmas carols I do feel that adapting to streaming and music as recording is another key. People need to take music with them anywhere. The other rub is that to get a symphony orchestra together to perform and to record requires a concert all, just on sheer scale or a studio big enough to hold an orchestra....There may be something archaic about this but it's darn special. Of course with today's engineering musicians in an orchestra can record parts and assemble them in a studio...but it's still way more challenging than recording a 5 piece rock band. Which brings me to another point...there is a complexity and quality in making and performing this music that demands a lot and by and large is in its intent opposed to mass production...I used to write novels. My first one took me 7 years to write. It was just complex and took a lot of time because I have a very organic process and am not writing to formula...And I wrote it and took that time to do this without any real hope that I would ever make money...I wrote it for it's own sake...most "relevant" music today is just written to a formula that makes money...write a certain song that's like the one that was a big hit last year and you have a big hit this year...that said there are wonderful new songs being written but most of the best are not massively popular...they have smaller dedicated followings. the length of classical music is another barrier. It takes a person looking for more than a good beat, who will sit through a 30 or 40 minute composition. As I compose music and post on RUclips...I know that it's hard to get anyone to listen beyond 2 or 3 minutes...about the length of a pop song. Can we blame this on the classical music establishment? I think not....So without turning classical music into nothing but miniatures, it would be hard to compete with the listening habits of a contemporary audience and survive on it's own terms. i.e. symphonic or operatic music. It does seem that you have to tell a story because everybody has converted to thinking in terms of tv and movies...they like move scores with a classical sound so long as they can relate to characters or story. So what then of absolute music that just exists for it's own sake? Perhaps the truth is there is not much of an audience for that simply because we live in different times with different technology and very different values about what it means to connect with music.
@@kendrickpereira37 No realize that there is a need for change. You never know when ideas and tastes come back to different values...30 years ago if you had said people would be releasing their music again on vinyl records you would said they were crazy...but I wonder if you are even old enough to remember. Composers write what they like and they do it because they can.
Radio, Recording, and TV, Video brings everything to our door. So we really don't need to go out and see anything live. Also, it is a richer society with other interesting things. Sports is one of them. This wasn't the case in the days of classical music.
The existence or non-existence of other competing activities notwithstanding,I wonder what proportion of the population did actually hear classical music in the time of Haydn and Mozart :-} ?
@@dfpolitowski2 Your reply does not link to the post you are replying to and and there are so many comments posted that there is no prospect of my finding it. I have no idea what you are responding to.
@@kendrickpereira37 You said: "The existence or non-existence of other competing activities notwithstanding ,I wonder what proportion of the population did actually hear classical music in the time of Haydn and Mozart :-} ?" " I understood what you were driving at with that comment and I replied said "Like today, only the cultured and well to do." Do what? go to classical concert halls.
Something related to what you were is the lack of willingness from classical music people. I want to get into opera singing, and during research on their technmiques and stuff I alays find myself feeling that the writer is trying to look at me from over a platform or something. Like, when I was looking info for a Do in Petto, one of the articles I read was talking about how "opera and mofdern music shouldn't mix", and that "arias shouldn't be sung with modern style singing even if it's sung properly". The writer talked about how this great modern style singer sung an aria in modern style and it was "like a screech to their ears" even though it was sung superbly. I read it and immediatly thought "yep, this is why opera is dying". It makes me wonder if the writers of these sort of articles forget people in the opera sing that way, with over enphasis on things like squillo, chiaroscuro contrast, the glottal expansion and so on because back then there weren't microphones and they played this songs for large crowds of people to hear. Like, I would bet anything that, had they had mics as we do today, they would have sung in what we call "modern style singing".
I think you made a good point here...while I am no real afficiando for opera, I do enjoy the music...but that HEAVY vibrato singing style, that, like you said, was a necessity back in the day, sounds absolutely ridiculous in this day and age imho. Its the sort of thing that you make fun of when youre 4...and when youre 40! With all due respect to the craft and the years of practice and refinement it takes to master this historically informed performance style, something just shuts down in my acceptance of it...even if I can enjoy the music, the story, the sets, the premise, etc, I just would rather hear the arias and recitatives performed with a more pure tone and the vibrato used more tastefully and to better effect if kept in check...imagine a voice with the purity of a Sarah McLaughlin or Sting singing these parts, and that's what I would prefer in modern opera at least anyway...otherwise, give me Glass's Einstein on the Beach or The Who's Tommy or Pink Floyd's The Wall as opera
Can i add that yes the acoustics of a room are cool and magical but also how f-ing cool would it be to have an amplified concert? Are you telling me that if mahler had access to subwoofers he would have passed? COME ON i want to feel those double basses in my body and not be distracted by some old geezer sneezing next to me because that is louder than the music.
I guess your question about Mahler will never be answered but I think it very understandable if he did "pass" on - what was it? "sub-woofers"? It mystifies me why people like listening to an electrical reconstruction of a sound rather than to the sound itself.
I’m not a musician nor grew up with music in my home. But along the way I developed a taste for maybe not classical music but definitely symphonic music. Used to go the Hollywood Bowl 4-5 each summer in the 70’s & 80’s. It was wonderful. Moved away then came back recently. It’s still there, but back then the Philharmonic would play 5 nights with a few nights for other “stuff”. Now it’s reversed. Maybe one night out 10 is symphonies. There’s just not enough people demanding it.
I live in Montréal QC, and I often see the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal and the Orchestre Métropolitain host free outdoor concerts in the parks and streets of the city during the summer months. Everytime I go to one of their outdoor concerts (usually Beethoven's and Mahler's symphonies and sometimes musicals), there is a huge crowd, and the police have to block vehicle traffic of a few blocks to let the audience in. From what I can see, there is not a lack of young folks in the crowd. I think this is an excellent way of promoting classical music and making it more accessible to the public.
wow what an amazing video! your editing skills and production values are insane! absolutely incredible work. Thanks very much for your hard work, it's much appreciated
Hello Cait, you're the first person to explain the exact same points I've been expressing to fellow classical musicians for a long time. In a lot of ways, I believe 'mainstream' classical music (standard symphonic classical music, opera, ballet, etc....) is already on its deathbed and has been for some time. I believe that most crossover classical music doesn't generally work because a lot of the times it's far too pandering and gimmicky and non-classical audiences can see through the act. In the same way that classical music of its time was based on the folk/pop music of its time which made it relevant, we would need a new generation of bold and daring musicians in our time to reject the status quo and make new and relevant compositions that they can perform while going on tour for more people to care. I also believe that as soon as a music genre becomes institutionalized (taught for a degree at a college), it's almost always a death sentence for said genre. You can see how Jazz is slowly dying in the same way as classical music already has, and not too far behind is Rock and Roll. To really drive the point home, will be hilarious to see the day when one can get a bachelor's degree in Hip-Hop Performance some 20+ years down the road, and wonder why Rap became a dying genre in the future. Just a prediction....would like to know what you think about all this, and thank you for your video!
This is such great food for thought, I hadn’t considered how schooling might have an effect on all this too but of course you’re right! I wonder how K-pop schools teach and if there are any differences we could learn from. 🤔
No way, I had no clue there were K-Pop schools! I really wonder how much of that works out. Can you manufacture success that lasts a lifetime? When I think of great artists of our time in popular music, I think of people who carved their own path in the industry, and those who stuck true to their vision and honed it. I doubt that can be manufactured, and it is something which one must discover on their own. What things do you believe might be different k pop schools vs conservatories?
Isn't Philip Glass such a modern composer who transcripts modern music into strict compositional form? But where does that lead him? Other instrumentalists and have you not seen are on his trails and earn their name in his shadow already. And the man is still alive (or so I hope to the second and beyond as I write this comment). And yes, it does sound more like a noisy gimmick than actual music. Sadly. I would love to hear a genuine composition based off of music from my own generation. But instead we have to deal with more Stockhausens and the likes.
Glass gets a bad rap really, but I get it...when you hear every TV commercial imitating Glassworks/MAD Rush, etc, it does start to become gimmicky...but besides his early hard-core minimalism like Music in 12 Parts...check out his 2nd, 3rd, and 8th symphonies, his 4th and 5th String Quartets, his concertos (violin especially)...and you will be moved by a genuine artist/composer who just happens to retain elements of his former Minimalist approach, now turned into modern masterworks (IMHO)
@@niemand7811 I personally don't mind Glass at all and I find his music quite brilliant. I'll say, I would count him as someone who is quite belonging to the establishment at this point. I'm thinking of people who are active and although I'm being agist, under the age of 40. When I think to the time when composers in the past were the most prolific, it generally has been in their youth....our current classical establishment doesn't generally care what young composers have to say and the opportunities to have their music played at the highest level is almost non-existent....which is tragic considering how many brilliant potential artists of classical music aren't interested because there isn't interest and money to backup the dead genre. You'll find most of our musical geniuses composing movie music, or making char topping pop tunes
3:36 is bizarre to me. Classical sounds the best in my headphones. Granted, they're somewhat expensive headphones, but still. The sound quality on a typical modern DG, Decca, Naxos, Chandos, or Pentatone release (for instance, not to exclude other great labels) is light years better than a typical pop or rock album. With respect to the rest of the thesis, it has given me food for thought but I don't know if I'm on board with the totality of it. I am a classical nut, and am not wealthy by any means. I also like pop, rock and jazz. But classical is an absolute tonic in my life, and a good 90% of my music purchasing in the last 5 years has been CM. My family and I get to perhaps 5 paid concerts a year with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and then attend a few more free concerts outdoors in Millennium Park. Between the two it seems like there is demand for the music - the venues are always packed. If it were hard for me to find live events to attend, I might be more in line with the thesis here. I do understand the critique that the majority of money is coming from wealthy patrons and serves to reify their tastes... but I share similar tastes, and hasn't it always, to some degree? Haydn was employed by either a baron or a prince for basically 50 years. I do however totally agree that the stuffiness and etiquette of the live CM experience should be loosened up.
I think it depends on *who* is in those audiences. If it’s the same people over and over again, that’s also worrying. And perhaps the repertoire? I can fully imagine that “An Evening at the Movies” might be an incredibly in-demand concert for the CSO, but perhaps Haydn would be less so. I definitely agree that there are loyal fans and shows aplenty, but the financial health of most organizations is frightening to consider. I never felt secure knowing my paycheck came from a house that was reliant on the generosity of its wealthiest audience members to stay in business. 😕
I have many classical recordings of symphonies, concertos and large scale works for chorus and orchestra. The great majority are very well recorded, including many from the '50s and '60s on Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereo. They sound great on headphones.
I think film and gaming soundtracks are the key, and it definitely needs to get away from the image of pretentiousness and gatekeeping. I'll be honest, I wasn't interested in classical music when in was twenty, I was obsessed with Oasis and other Britpop bands, but soundtracks from people like Howard Shore and John Williams helped me appreciate the genre a lot more.
Love all haters in the comments, haha. Thank you for bringing up the recording issue, it's so frustrating listening to super reverby recordings that are barely audible. "Classical" music needs dynamics, I get it, but in a recorded format they really need to change it up here.
imo, classical recordings of the 90s into the 2000s were peak. the goal is to simulate the experience of sitting in a concert hall, and the reason why there is a massive industry of hi-res music and audio equipment, it compliments the genre well. i think if you want to raise your experience with listening to classical music you should probably start with your source, and then your equipment. a quality source (hi-res lossless audio, not streamed), with a quality DAC and amp paired with reference headphones (my preference; Sennheiser HD800S) helps a ton. things like dynamics, instrument separation, soundstage play a huge factor. i've been a subscriber to my local orchestra for over 15 years now and i can attest that although it's difficult to simulate the experience of sitting at a concert hall and hearing every instrument sing harmoniously in sync, getting extremely close is a possibility. the only issue is, it's not cheap.
I completely agree, but it’s such a shame that’s the case. The cost is so prohibitive for so many people. I think I’d ultimately prefer having two experiences: the recorded and the live. That might also bring us closer to the relevance of other music genres in today’s world. Instead of catering to the 1% who have the equipment, why don’t we cater to the 99% who don’t?
Well put...it is another barrier to entry to have to get all this high end equipment to fully enjoy the classical experience-like you said, it's another elitist element to contend with, that potential new listeners will turn away from So, what can we do about it though really??? Is it all about EQ, Compression, and Multitracking every single instrument and singer in a Mahler symphony to make it "punchy" enough for the kids to climb on board??? I'm not sure...I worked with a video/audio production company that recorded and filmed student orchestras and marching bands, etc...and I can personally attest that with a good orchestra in a GOOD room, the two condenser mics over the conductors head, really can produce a rich, powerful recording...especially for the homogeneous strings, but depending on that hall and the pieces performed, there are too many variables in that situation that make "room sound " just awful like you said...what about rearranging some of the orchestral seating to make a more balanced sound (in other words, in modern music, the bass register is always in stereo, but in the traditional orchestral set up, the bass is mainly to the right of the Sonic spectrum, making it a bit odd for modern ears-let alone the period being performed, etc) sorry this is so long, but what do you recommend about improving the recorded sound??? Love your video, editing, and delivery btw...especially kicking down the 4th wall for product placement LMAO!!!
@@ScoresUnstitched It's not hard to get a good pair of headphones, they are quite cheap nowadays. I would even say pop music would sound better if they were more like classical or jazz recordings.
Still, there's something to be said about "cultural relevance". How long are current musical trends going to stay relevant, and further ahead ... what will we do when we run out of trends ? I strongly doubt anyone will remember Taylor Swift a century or two from now. That is, if music is still made by human beings by then
Music in general is dying, not just classical. And I care. I like music. As for "recorded sound as close to as if live - it sucks" (and all the other points about "changing volume" aka _dynamics,_ not using compressors or electronic/digital mixing & individual mic'ing etc). No, it doesn't suck. It's an acoustic performance, vs. arguably extremely artificial ones, putting things together & modifying sound arbitrarily with "modern studio production". Might as well make everything electronic, like some do. Or AI. _That's_ what sucks, and has gotten so bad that I hardly buy any music these days in the non-classical realm. Prove me wrong, lol.
the reason classical musicians have that kind of recording is to show that we aren't going to use technology to help us and is is pure skill when we use stereo it is to easy to project the right sound and is no longer a challenge its like if you play a video game and find all the cheat codes the game is no longer fun and as a 13 year old i would not have it another way p.s. if you feel the same way pls like this i what people to see it
A wonderful exposition! I wonder why classical literature (including Shakeare's plays, written centuries before mostclassical music) seems to be approachable by most people. I think it's because they feel there is some entry point to help them climb aboard. Challenging art 16:56 needs intrigue or initiation by a friend, or perhaps via television or even school lessons. Children are entitled to be introduced to the great artistic achievements of humans, if only to balance the tragic side.
I agree 100% with you on this...perhaps a more modern reworking of Bernstein's great Young People Concerts for the modern age would be ideal for turning the kids on to this beautiful sound world...I would say, keep Lenny's scripts and excerpts, and animate them, either using his voice (With MAESTRO...he is back in the spotlight now), or get a new classical evangelist to present Bernstein's approach (Benjamin Zander and Michael Tilson Thomas are past their prime), but someone with the energy and enthusiasm for it that is contagious is needed ASAP!!!
I totally agree with you!! It makes me sick that not enough people are addressing these issues. I wonder how we can get many more people to address them and eventually persuade the people in charge of classical music to change the industry.
Okay, you have a point. It has become an interpreter's art (especially when it comes to recordings), and that is never going to become something that everyday people do again. I can't imagine parties full of young people arguing whether Glenn Gould's "Well Tempered Clavier" is the best, and what Back would have thought of it.
I think you're on to something! I have a history playing classical music in academia, grew up with it at home, but I haven't gone out of my way to listen to classical pieces for a few years now. It's just a genre like any other. Jazz encounters these similar issues with their "programming," their tunes, with other youtubers like Adam Neely have pointing out how old tunes are falling out of rotation. The tunes become tired and fall out of vogue. But where did those tunes come from in the first place? How did they become standards? It's that they were pop music at some point! Show tunes and the like. Some skilled pianists at my high school could play Moonlight Sonata, but *everyone* could play "River Flows in You." Because it was popular. I don't think classical music needs to be saved in perhaps the way you're thinking. Musicians can make money in other ways than just by playing music, and my guess is a dying genre isn't going to make struggling musicians. You can have the best content in the world but if you market it poorly no one will watch it. My guess is, most classical musicians are doing other things adjacent to their music, starting youtube channels and the like, and probably doing fine, or just making do in this economy. The genre can become as obscure and elitist as it likes, the people who like it will listen, and the people who play it will keep it relevant in their own way as long as they're surviving, probably.
Addendum-I am part of the generation (the dreaded B.B's) who got turned on to classical music via FM rock radio in the 70s, during the progressive rock period. There were covers and arrangements of popular classical works by those bands, and they used electronic instruments to mimic the sound or the symphony orchestra and chamber ensembles in their original compositions. And that led to fans going straight to the source and collecting recording of those popular pieces by the best known composers. It's a pity that today's popular music can't continue to be a bridge to the music in the classical world.
OK, gotta take a bit against your stereotyping at 3:40. They don't WANT that. They just know that tends to bring out the sound they want. Or more often the audience doesn't, the producers of the record do.
oh, and on the topic of 'original' - at least in classical it is still the work of a single person (yeah, some composers have assistants for orchestration, just like film score composers do). But when I look at the fact that it took 12 credited songwriters for a particular #1 hit recently? Yeah, it may be 'original', but it is hardly the work of 'the artist' that people are buying. Meanwhile, "classical" still encompasses a lot of new music being written, in spite of the name implying that it is only the work of dead composers. A marketing problem perhaps? Still, i'll be honest, you're (so far) not helping matters by ignoring some of these in catering to the stereotypes.
I apologize if I offended you, but I felt you were apparently unfamiliar with the instrument. The guitar, I would guess, has been around at least two thousand years in one form or another. The list was referring to the huge availability of Classical Guitar on RUclips. Classical Guitar is classical music.
Contemporary classical and jazz has zero future as stand alone genres. The only time extreme dissonance is really enjoyable is in a good horror/slasher flick.
I play in a Baroque ensemble....and would rather perform for the 3 or 4 hundred thoughtful people who attend the concerts than the 50,000 Swifties that jam a stadium to hear that pablum....
Classical music is just music. I think the problem starts with seeing it strictly as a genre and therefore a niche. My training was in ballet, so I certainly heard a lot of classical music in the studio. But it was also still very present in TV ads, cartoons, films, restaurants, elevators, etc. Even pop music was objectively more melodic. All of this helped to cultivate the ears of everyone, not just die-hard aficionados and snobs. I think the problem is truly humongous because we are entering into a largely unmusical era. When artificial sounds that don't have anything to do with real instruments or the human voice have taken over to such an extent, then all forms of music will sound foreign to younger people. To answer your question from the beginning: is classical music worth saving? Yes. Absolutely. It is a good in our world and a good is by definition worth saving.
People have been saying this for generations. Cheap seats to the symphony or opera cost less than the cheapest high end pop concert. And btw classical musicians do tour. Soloists do nothing but tour. Big orchestras tour as well.
Yes I couldn't figure out the tour comment either. As we all know orchestras do tour.
I think she was emphasizing, that they used to tour with their own original music. Pop artistst tour to spread their own music. Orchestras don't need to tour, as the music is avaible everywhere. You don't need the Sydney Symphony Orchestra in Berlin to perform Beethoven. But you do need "Taylor Swift" in Berlin to perform her music. Soloists tour, but the "only" thing they provide is old concertos (which I love, but let's face it, it's old!)
@@jameshaydn3341 a great orchestra/conductor provides their own unique interpretation of standard repertoire. Not to mention that they often play obscure music people hadn’t heard or even commission new music.
As a musician new music needs to make me feel like I'm not just pulling out the Abhans and drilling exercises. Recently played at an National Brass band competition and the set piece we had to play felt just like that. Even though it was a brand new composition
@@magiclover9346 I think your comment "As a musician" emphasises what this debate is really about. Musicians are dissatisfied with classical music if it doesn't give them a chance for a remunerative career with reasonable working conditions and/or a chance of self-actualisation. And to be fair it won't for most people. Cait Frizzel is making her comments following a vocal accident. An ungenerous person, like myself, might say her sentiment of "Classical Music Is Dying" is an example of sour grapes. As a consumer/listener I don't see it this way. I have more than enough classical music which I can listen to cheaply at any time and more than enough for the future if I want to expand my habits. So if you consider yourself a musician think about the art form from the point of view of the millions of little people. An art form isn't worthwhile if its not listened to and I'm not bothered if musicians feel there is nothing in it for them.
To survive, classical music has to be advertized at least with the same intensity as the modern music is. Once you form the taste of the children they will like it. So, easy. So, schools, TV, Radio, .... all that should be full of classical music. Those are the 'taste forming institutions'. The question is: Why these institutions do not do that?
Very good question...I mean if .
modern day patrons are going to commission new works and concerts, why not promote these people and events??? It's like she said in the video, maybe they just don't want 15 year girls on Tik Tok during Rachmaninoff and so they keep it elite on purpose...we need a new system of patronage devoted to living composers and the recently deceased
Bugs Bunny cartoons really helped boomers and Gen X get exposed to classical music. Fact of the matter is that people will like classical music if it's presented in a way that's fun and engaging. I think one of the big problems is the very academic-focused and high brow culture that accompanies classical music. It's difficult for the average joe to get into and when people try, they are sneered at by the hipsters because they happen to like Canon in D or 'The Four Seasons' as opposed to Pierrot Lunaire by Shoenberg.
to survive classical music has to die
stop playing brahms and rahcmaninov over ansd over because this music is outdated and overplayed
start to play modern/contemporary regularly and see what happens
Its always strange hearing about this "forming taste" thing, when your own taste is totally adaptable and youre open for everything.
@@eeurr1306 Not so sure that everyone is open for everything. I am not. My taste has been formed by the society, microsociety, and my education.
I'm just a middle-class schlub who loves listening to Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky symphonies and concertos over and over again, including sometimes in person. I'm okay if movie and video game music gets thrown in the mix, as long as it's not atonal. I hope "the system" doesn't ultimately take this away.
Re "I hope "the system" doesn't ultimately take this away". They are working on it. You look like a white man! This means all the hobbies, films and music you enjoy must be replaced by the message.
What irritates me the most when it comes to Opera or Ballet is the modernization of librettos for them making them unenjoyable for younger and older audiences. How can I enjoy a fairy tale like The Magic Flute when everything is black and white and moody. Or putting Boris Godunov's plot in the middle of WW2 for artistic effect. It's simply annoying and very frustrating.
I think modern audiences are very tolerant of period pieces (or even passionate about them!) in other media such as TV and movies. If there were any reason to place Downton Abbey--or worse yet, the Lord of the Rings--in a setting that looks like the 21st century, then I might be more inclined to believe that there's a reason to modernize something like the Magic Flute. (As for vocal style, however, is it possible that the classical vocal style is a compromise between the need to sing beautifully and the need to make one's self heard over an orchestra without a microphone? Because that compromise may just be obsolete at this point.)
I am primarily an opera composer. I want my operas set in the periods I set them. Period.
This kind of silly crap kills the dramas. It's pretentious and plays intot he whole "elitism" argument.
"Oh we are just SO BORED with Carmen. Let's set it in outer space and have a 6'4" countertenor with a beard play her. And while we're at it let's set the whole thing in a bowling alley in the 1950s."
Barf.
The music is married to the drama in opera or ballet, just as it is in film score or even video games. It has to make sense in dramatic context. The setting is part of what makes an opera effective. Those "modernized" staging ruin the artform.
Its a common pattern, seen in Disney films too, alienate an existing audience to appeal to a different "modern" audience which may or may not exist. Unfortunately all you can do is not bother to go anymore which is sad for everybody. But hey the self-actualisation of the producers and cast is way more important than the audience.
So true! It's like a double whamy.. not only has the appeal of opera been lost to many, but the specific appeal that makes opera opera, opera is voluntarily giving up 😂. So that's a loss of not only the people who would lose interest no matter what you do (due to cultural shifts, etc.), but also the fans who are disappointed and even subconsciously don't see the point of going anymore. The visuals have degraded, the singing has degraded, so what do you go for.. to hear the orchestra?? That will eventually feel like a rip-off to most. The human soul craves beauty. But they're giving us a counterfeit - ugliness, an imposter we have to accept in its place
I majored in composition. The HUGE problem in the academic world is the emphasis on atonal music. Audiences do not want to hear it. Composers are encouraged to emulate Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg, instead of Hayden, Mozart, and Beethoven.
Oh, this is a really good point, I totally agree! It begs the question: who is classical music for?
Atonal is absolute suicide if classical music wants to survive lol I can’t stand it. It’s so bad .. I put it next to death screamo metal on my personal list of music I really dislike lol
@@PeaceNinja007
does nikos skalkottas count as an atonal composer? i think his music is pretty good and definitely tolerable to the average person in the street
@@vaylard9474 I guess Im not the average person lol I couldn’t stand his music. He’s as atonal as it gets for me lol
It's hard to believe The Rite of Spring is over a 100 years old. 😂
Hear me: Anime and Video game orchestras are and will thrive even more in the future. Because story is KING. And this is the relatability to the audience. Also some of the best music I have heard comes from these and the meaning*** behind it due to the story and characters. I have discovered some of my favourite composers of all time because of them. Some scores are better than the animation itself and even the story. Keep an eye out for this.
Over the years I've watched Studio Ghibli movies with my daughter. She for the animation and story, I for Joe Hisaishi's wonderful music.
Well said...and I love your optimistic outlook in this direction...if more living composers, who may not be writing for Anime or video games, could think more about STORY...they would be more successful too (new relevant operas, ballet scenes, symphonic poems, etc) today's audiences need guidance in this way, you're absolutely right!!!
You really have no clue. All of this is being done on purpose by bad actors. They want to tear down the foundations of society. It's called the fifth column.
Final Fantasy and Pokemon
I guess Wagner really revolutionized music to the extent that it made motion pictures and video game music viable.
I love a melody, a tune. I've listened to new composers works and the ones I've listened to seem anti-melody. It's like they've been taught/instructed at their conservatoires that having a great melodic musical hook in their compositions is 'common' or low class, populist etc and should be avoided at all costs or they won't be taken seriously as a composer.
I hope the contemporary composers have other skills because their lack of listenable music output isn't going to sustain a composing career.
This is not as true as it used to be, but still...a very good point. If you think of the more recently 'popular' composers, like John Adams, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Arvo Part and John Luther Adams, they have absolutely brilliant ideas and textures, but even they generally avoid the 'tune', and it does seem like academia still encourages originality over listenability, even if the serial methods aren't stressed as 'the way' as much as before...but I agree, melody needs to make a serious comeback in modern classical music. Composers should try to not worry so much about their peers and start writing music that they themselves would actually want to hear...then maybe we will have a new syntax
The symphony orchestra for the region i live in recently performed "die zauberflöte" for a family audience, which was in Danish instead of German and with an introduction to the story before. Ticket prices were an absolute steal too at, like, 13€ for adults and 6€ for children.
The hall was packed to the brim with families with children and elders alike. So I think this might be one way to go. It somewhat keeps the musical integrity in my opinion, while also being friendly towards new listeners.
That is something I see as a solution. The modernization to the max of classical music is something I don't like. Imagine going to a classical concert and seeing blinding lights and a see of fog. That is just distracting and takes away form the performance itself
So " Ticket prices were an absolute steal too "
Well, well! So who paid for the performance?
Wow imagine like there was this magical thing called "music", something that has enough subtlety, nuance, complexity, that it allows for many perspectives, many interpretations, many feelings. Imagine an artistic manifestation that isn't just a disposable consumer product. What a wonderful thing that would be.
04:50
Why do you judge classical pieces by the same standards than four chords repeated over three minutes with some rhymed tropes overlayed? Why do you willfully ignore the idea of interpretation?
0.39 - I have never heard a single classical musician say this. Maybe the labels, but certainly not the musicians. Those few musicians that do say this don't get hired back after a little while.
2:28 - I really don't know what albums you're listening to. What albums sound muddy? Those volume changes might be the dynamic changes that are written in the music. I seriously doubt the producer is going ham at the controls and playing with the levels...
3:27 - "We want stereo sound!" Yes, as opposed to the mono sound that classical albums use....except they are also recorded in stereo sound. Mono hasn't been around for sometime now. I find it funny where she mentions the soundproof studio booth because I'm trying to imagine the logistical challenges with recording an ensemble. What do you do? Book the studio for a few years and give each musician a change to record their parts without letting them listen to their peers play with them?
3:45 - Really? Seriously? Apparently classical musicians are so stuck in the past that we haven't figured out the magic that is...anything greater than 1080p video quality.
4:40 - "It's never original music." David Bruce would like to have a word with you. While I do admit that contemporary music in the classical sphere does not get the coverage it sorely deserves, it's a bit foolish to say that "It doesn't exist."
7:05 - The practice of performing older composers works instead of primarily focusing on contemporary composers occurred earlier than that. Even when this happened though, there was still an emphasis on new music that doesn't exist today. Composers that had multiple works successfully premiere after 1900: Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Copeland, Bernstein, Ives. Contemporary music has had less focus, but it's not just because older music is performed.
7:45 - There you go again pretending contemporary classical music doesn't exist.
10:00 - Ensembles do tours. They may not be as frequent as pop artists, but they do exist. The pay scale of a musician varies greatly depending on where you look. Musicians in one of the big 5 might have a six figure salary (w/ the conductor making way too much money), but there are a variety of regional orchestras where the musicians make a fraction of that sum. Every ensemble is different and has a different financial situation. They're not one in the same here.
10:40 - This...really depends on where you're going to concerts. A ticket to the MET Opera will attract a different audience than that of your local symphony orchestra.
12:26 - Ownership model? You realize pop artists are owned by record companies with rich CEOs right? Also, a ticket to a symphony orchestra concert will often be cheaper than a ticket to any artist in the top 10 right now. I challenge you to look up your local symphony or other classical ensemble and check ticket prices. If it was truly only "For the elite", then the prices would at least match what Ariana Grande charges right?
As a side note, your sources are very odd. The first source is from 2021 and it a short blog post that is filled with conjecture. It makes the case that classical music is dying because of a few UT performances that didn't have large audiences (during a pandemic) and because of when it was written, it couldn't use any sources from a year later that show a little more positive outlook on classical music. The next two sources are a decade old and the final one is a Classic FM article that makes the case that classical music dying is hyperbole due to something new apparently killing it sprouting up every few years or so.
Don't get me wrong. I understand what this video is attempting to do. It's just makes so many wrong assumptions about classical music as it has existed, and currently exists, that the video seems completely pointless. For example, blaming the performance of dead composers music seems weird when you take into account that this has been the case since Felix Mendelssohn conducted the Gewandhaus Orchestra in the 1830s. The last time I checked, there were a lot of composers after 1830 that were successful in their careers (The big 5 in Russia, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Copeland, Bernstein, and too many more to list here).
That's what I want to see, that's the seed for a discussion if she answers
@@CrsD-Assxssin She won't answer.
"Composers that had multiple works successfully premiere after 1900: Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Copeland, Bernstein, Ives. Contemporary music has had less focus, but it's not just because older music is performed. "
And you forgot to mention RACHMANINOFF!!! His piano concertos are gorgeous and have become a sort of rite of passage for every concert pianist. Not to mention LOTS of vocal choral and solo music! And of course Prokofiev too. It's almost hard to believe, in fact, that they didn't exist before that. 😂. Of course a lot has happened culturally since then, and i wouldn't say it's for the best, but we have yet to see what the 21st century will produce none the less. But of course the really great ones don't come except in handfuls per century, so perhaps people look too hard to find something special in every musician that writes a line of music the least bit known, getting all worked up that we're only paying 'old ones'. That never happened centuries ago and all the more so we shouldn't expect it now either. Great composers are great because they're rare and exceptional, and that will always be the case. 90% are always forgotten in a few decades. Nothing new, and that's normal.
The need to impose consumerism on everything is the problem - the heritage of over a millennium of music isn’t solved by pandering to consumers just as with Jingju, Gagaku, Shinto temples etc- I indeed do blame the “consumer” - not everything exists for your tittilation, however much the USA wishes otherwise. And no classical music is not an “industry”. It’s centuries of our history. And another very important point is that the view that Western classical music is dying is quite parochial as it’s growing like crazy in China, compared to which the USA is barely a blip.
I took over our Community Symphony last season (2022-2023) We are all amateurs. (I have my Masters in Music Education, but was a pianist and classical guitarist with a bit of musicology in my background.) We have people coming from larger cities to play with our group, because we do a variety of less difficult music from Baroque standards through 10 year old movie and tonal classical music. We also play popular standards. I think, for our audience, anyway, the length of the pieces and the length of the concert make a difference. We are now doing thematic concerts of five to seven shorter pieces from different eras in 75 to 90 minute concerts (including intermission, which includes refreshments, a nice place to sit and chat with friends, and players going out to mingle with audience members.) This season we featured Vivaldi in our March concert, and Mancini in our April concert. Tonal and tuneful and really appreciated by the musicians and the audience. Next season, I'm programing Litvinovsky and Andrew Lloyd Weber in November, and trying to get us into Helvi Leiviska for the spring. I always throw a standard classical composer into every program, too.
Our musicians range in age from 15 to 75. The biggest gain in membership is the 23 to 35 year old cohort. Think about it - you can work with other people without having to be 'social' - or you can be social, if you want. You work together to reach a goal and create a thing of beauty. You are important to the final project, but if you've had a rough day, other musicians are there to support you and help you lose your problems for a couple of hours while you let your anxious brain function to make sense of a puzzle that IS solvable. You can tell your spouse, "this is my weekly scheduled time to be an adult, and it's your night to stay home with the preschooler and baby." I honestly believe the mental health benefits of recreating this complex beauty together are so relevant to society today.
I know this isn't the big 'business' side of highly trained musicians going on tours and playing impossibly technical masterpieces, but I think it's where classical music always has to have a presence if it's going to survive. And - let's face it - this music will change and disappear just as all of humanity's cultural icons do. We don't know what the music of Ancient Rome or Greece really sounded like. We have descriptions, but we have not experienced it. Some day, if humanity survives, this music will fade completely, or change and become something different. That's the way of the world.
My opinion on this is that a lot of people don’t just listen to music because they like the sound. People have a lot of preconceived notions about what kind of music is meant for what kind of person. It’s a part many peoples self image and what subculture they feel they belong to and some people will only listen to the music of their subculture. This could be because they identify as a skate boarder, punk person, goth, or hip-hip aficionado. A lot of people perceive classical music as hoity-toity, uptight and for rich old people. If people just listened to what they thinks sounds good with no preconceived notions and paid attention to how it makes them feel, classical music would be extremely popular.
Oh my! In the first five minutes you've summed up exactly what I've been feeling deep inside for years as an performer. I wasn't even aware of it until you put it into words. Now I'll keep watching. I just had to tell you this right away.
I'm a classical organist and I don't go to classical concerts anymore. Once in a while I've been because someone wanted someone to go with, and at my last church in the UK where I played, both I and the priest were leaving around the same time so we had a staff outing to the Wigmore Hall to hear the Schumann Quartet, so it's not like it never happens, but I definitely don't seek it out. The atmosphere is so oppressive, you overhear old men patronising their wives with all kinds of trivia about the music in the concert which is usually wrong, and I'm an organist: making music involves my *whole body*, so sitting still for the duration of a concert while music is playing drives me mad. When I listen at home I groove along, conduct in the air, shake my booty; the environment of the concert hall makes me feel enormously distant from the thing I love above anything else.
I do still go to organ recitals, though. They are usually a bit more informal just because the spaces are much larger and less crowded (because, honestly, who goes to organ recitals?) and the organ is pretty loud, so you can shuffle about, and you'd never even hear someone "shush" you.
Why would I pay money to sit in misery when I can listen at home, stuffing my face with naan breads and headbanging to the Firebird?
I know that some time ago in Amsterdam they held piano concerts in cafe's and bars. One of the reasons why they did that was because there were plenty of people in their 20's and 30's who were into classical, however, they didn't like going to fancy places to listen to it.
I really like classical and jazz (which was even lower on that chart), but the snobby people who go to these (fancy) events really turn me off. To me, a world without these 2 genres of music being performed would be a less beautiful world, so I really hope they can reinvent themselves.
Agreed!! I'm 24 and the worst part about the concerts is the audience. Pretentious, snobby, judgy. I still go, usually alone, practice ignoring or talking back at them every single time.
I started listening to symphonic metal bands like Epica and Haggard. I loved the voices and instruments, because of that I started listening to classical music and now im a huge fan of Opera. So in my case, it was metal music that made me love classical music
I went from rock and punk to Classical back in the early 1980s. I was seduced by the heaviest stuff, Wagner and Beethoven in particular. Later I went on to be an opera composer.
The overlap between classical and metal is pretty strong - most of my metal-loving friends also like classical music. Both genres stress instrumental elements (and virtuosity), high drama, and (at this point) are somewhat outside of the mainstream. And, classical music has been a big influence on metal since its formative years of bands like Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, and Scorpions.
I really recommend the Black Mages: One Winged Angel
Kids give me hope. Having played many classical chamber concerts for outdoor events and schools, I've found lots of children are fascinated by the instruments and want to know more about them. They come up to the musicians wide-eyed after performances and ask great questions. Sometimes they'll ask "How do you turn it on?" They don't understand that acoustic instruments don't use electricity. So cute!
as a kid myself, I've never met another kid who's so fascinated with classical music in person.
i love practicing music, and i love to get people into listening great music, like Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Chopin, Beethoven, Bach, Scriabin
and i succeed every time. i think the problem is that people don't really explore the genre at all, but every time i help them find their taste in classical music, they just can't stop listening to it.
Interesting video but I think a lot of the points were iffy. The most problematic point though is the comparison of classical to bruno mars and other artists all doing the same elvis cover over and over. You stated this yourself correctly with the nutcracker example: this is not about the musicians, its about the composer or piece itself. The fact that there are multiple different performances of something just makes it more accessible rather than redundant as your point implies. Also the fact that orchestral works get replayed isnt really an issue either because since classical has existed for so long, its not really starved for content, there are so many incredible works that rarely get played, in a given year its very hard to find a single performance in the US for say Bruckner 1 for instance. Ive listened to so much classical and it would still take the rest of my life to continue to uncover still such a small part of it.
The biggest issue is that when people think about classical music they think about the most cliche and boring pieces, and when its "made modern", its just the boring stuff rehashed in a slightly more modern way, yet ultimately still cliche and overplayed. Everybody and their mothers know a grand total of 4 notes from Beethoven 5, but what about the rest? Pomp and circumstance, played at graduations, has an amazing second theme that nobody knows because the first part is played on a loop. Bach Toccatta and Fugue, same thing, the media just covers the opening 5 seconds of it.
People would like classical music if it were given the spotlight and attention on the world stage. We dont need something new, because already nobody knows Shostakovich or Bruckner or Mahler or Prokofiev (and soooo many more I could keep listing). The work these legends have produced are some of the most beautiful, epic, grandiose, powerful, and absolutely mind blowing earth shattering music to exist, but they are vastly unknown to the general public. The concert halls do their job of programming it, but people dont go because they dont give it a chance. In their minds they have already associated classical with some trivial early classical baroque style of music when really its so much more. That is the problem. Making something "new" where somebody is just rehashing Vivaldi 4 seasons (which is funnily enough the bruno mars example) is not going to fix this.
In education, in the UK at least, 'classical' music is considered only one of many 'world' musics (sic) (and sick). Joe Soap and his mates are made to study a Shakespeare play or two, but not a Mozart symphony or, heaven forbid, a Shostakovich string quartet! Critical listening (nowadays contaminated by critical theory - not of itself, of course) is for deconstructing and destroying, not for learning, challenging and inspiring. Thanks for your excellent comment!
Excellent points! Unfortunately this state of affairs is accompanied by 'nobody cares', because music today is just a backdrop and those who control the cultural ecosystem keep it that way. Don't anybody dare stop and listen to anything complex or deep for even a minute, it might cause the 'wrong' kind of inner transformations. People don't go even to rock concerts to listen, but more to get strong sensations of a primitive nature that act as a catalyst for the rest of their lives .. made of similar substance. But more often than not music is just a superficial background phenomenon and nothing more. That has been pretty much accepted, so how are you going to convince anybody to dedicate some span of attention to 'listening'. Way too much effort.
Appreciate and agree with this response!
good point! most ppl only know like two composers max and there are still so many composers that rarely even get performed at concert halls. not sure how to get more people to know about these composers though. i think early childhood music education can help though
Modern concert band composers have figured out that people want rhythm and melody and they are producing some of the finest classical music of the past century.
Frank Ticheli, Omar Thomas, John Mackey, Adam Schoenberg, and more are writing music that teenagers are falling in love with. Groups like the @DallasWinds are recording this music and making it available to everyone. If we can ride this lull out, there is hope.
I support you in spirit but you just quoted people writing music for wind bands.
@@__-fu5sethese guys also do quality work for orchestra, Ticheli especially.
Orchestra music directors need to get on board that all music doesn’t have to be “challenging”. Quality music can also be enjoyable.
I had a professor that referred to a lot of new music as “wrong notes and drums”.
I think we are past that now, but people need to be able to make sense of it. Aubrey Bergauer’s studies show people fail to return because they didn’t know what was going on. We should do better job of telling them what they are hearing and if it may sound “challenging”, why it does so and it’s ok.
I love your video! You’re so smart and you get it! Don’t listen to the people giving weird, vague criticisms - people like you is what we need!
I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Classical music lovers like music not because it is ""relevant" but because it is beautiful, because it gives pleasure, and it continues ro do so after hundreds of years. Unfortunately, I really don't know how you get people to experience this pleasure. In my own case, when I was 15 my best friend became enamored of it, so I gave it a try and was smitten. Now, 77 years later, it still gives me intense pleasure, whether trough headphones on RUclips or in person at the concert hall; and I am still happiest seeing the Marriage of Figaro yet again in a traditional performance that does not attempt to be "relevant!"
She doesn't know how to distinguish great music from good music. The reason the music of masters such as Beethoven and Mozart is still around up to this day is because it is music that has stood the test of time. Her knowledge and experience of Western art music may be so limited that's why she thinks this way about Western art music.
since you mentioned figaro, it was highly relevant in its day having touched upon power abuses by the nobility
@@PM_ME_MESSIAEN_PICS I think that people who enjoyed Figaro at the time didn't do so primarily because of its "relevance." After all, the primary audience did not consist of the oppressed masses.But that's just my opinion; and there are many operas that never had any "relevance," yet have remained popular over the centuries.
@@yon8378 could it then be that other forms of music that are more relevant than opera became more popular?
but I will have to agree with what you said
@@PM_ME_MESSIAEN_PICS Basically I dislike thhe word "relevant." Relevant to what? I believe that the only legitimate role of art is to give pleasure. If it does so it has fulfilled its purpose.
I studied composition and classical guitar performance in conservatory school for a decade. Earned multiple degrees in both my undergraduate and graduate years. And honestly, I ended up quitting the entire genre. I now play more rock, metal, jazz, funk, jam, and pretty avoid classical altogether. Why?
Two main reasons:
1. The scene really is dying. There's therefore almost zero job opportunities in this field of classical music. And the two jobs I DID have as a teacher I lost, due to the fact that many of these schools unfortunately lost so much money in their programs recently, they couldn't find adjunct like myself after a year or so.
2. It's really not a stereotype that classical musicians are very elitist. I've experienced first hand the extreme levels of borderline narcissist personality disorder from many of these overly wealthy, yuppie prodigies, and snobby professors. It's pretty insufferable to be around those people, so honestly that was a major turning point in my genre switch.
Oh man, I’m sorry that was your experience. 😣 It sounds similar to mine too, it’s such a shame that such beautiful music has gotten wrapped up in so much nonsense. I was definitely one of those elitist musicians. If I hadn’t injured myself, god knows what kind of person I would have wound up becoming. I hope you feel more at home in your new genre work. 🙏
@@ScoresUnstitched What kind of injury did you sustain?
@@PeaceNinja007 I hemorrhaged one of my vocal cords about 5 years into my professional career. 😕
@@ScoresUnstitched Oh 🤭 Can’t even imagine how that happened .. or felt.
Hope you’re okay now
Opposite for me. Being Asian, ofc my parents forced Classical Piano down my throat. But during my teen years I rebelled, went all in on guitar playing rock, metal and jazz. Now, I'm in my 30s, going back to my classical roots, playing Classical Piano pieces. Sure, I never attended any conservatories, so I don't know how stuffy those people are; but I definitely find Classical music way more interesting than rock, metal or jazz.
Went to Konzerthuset Copenhagen with my 16 year old son. And guess what? He loved Ligeti and Messiaen, wasn't excited about Haydn. I think it has to do with "Hörgewohnheiten" and concert halls would be very wise to address this curiosity in more modern classical music among younger generations. And most importantly to invite people to be part of the conversation (e.g. explaining the music)
Hörgewohnheiten translates as "listening habits".
This was a very insightful video!! I totally agree - people absolutely will always like classical music as it remains a unique way to very effectively tell story i.e. film scores plus the music is just good. It's the presentation that needs to be modernized. Easier said than done but with patience and inspiration I think it really can stay alive. Also amazing and fun editing!!
I will show my students this! GREAT video. Thank you Cait!
This is pretty spot on. Classical music recordings are terrible, especially for listening with headphones. Who wants to turn the volume up to 100 so you can hear an entire orchestra playing so softly that it's like a whisper, only to have your ears blown out a minute later?
Classical composers write terrible music that no one wants to hear, for about the last hundred years.
I feel like this video would’ve HEAVILY benefited from including examples of living composers (that aren’t film composers) who do write music audiences love, and know how to navigate the space of music in the 21st century. Max Richter, Christopher Cerrone, Mason Bates, and Takashi Yoshimatsu, just to name a few. Their music is much more digestible than what people typically think of contemporary classical music. This video left out a whole world of composers who are living today and are writing classical music. And the best part about their music? It doesn’t sound like something written 200 years ago. It still sounds new, and general audiences can enjoy and understand it (unlike the music of Boulez, Fernyhough, Stockhausen, etc.). I think having modern composers write in the style of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc, is definitely not the solution. It will only sound like an imitation of older styles, and therefore still not be relevant to today. Composers need to write classical music that is still new, but that audience can enjoy. And there are composers already doing that. We just need more
You are absolutely right on this point...there IS new music being written for the old acoustic ensembles (sometimes integrated with electronics) by living composers who aren't serialists and it's fantastic, but it gets no real promotion so the general public has no idea its out there!!! Besides the ones you mentioned, also definitely check out the new works by Andrew Norman, Caroline Shaw, and Saad Haddad just to name a few more...it's not about rehashing Mozart Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, but its also not about abstract incoherence either...new composers don't have any rules to follow anymore, literally ANYTHING GOES today, so you can make a concerto or tone poem that incorporates melody *gasp*, functional harmony, but with some modern extensions, a narrative or fanciful title, a hidden tone row, a brief atonal episode for contrast, all done with impressionistic harmonies in a Minimalist type texture, and there's nothing wrong with that, or anybody stopping you!!! So as living composers we must be honest and appropriate to ourselves, know that any and everything is up for grabs, and just starting writing with genuine enthusiasm again, and NO FEAR OF MELODIES!!!
Some interesting and nuanced ideas here, and thank for you setting these out. Perhaps another interesting question connected to that of relevance is that of 'where is the value?' Starting from the point of asking how our musicking and even what kind of musicking can bring value to our audiences, and then doing some musicking that brings that value. This would also tie into your point about taking the music TO the audience, but instead places the audience first and asks 'what is the value in a musical experience for you?'
Wow! You gave me so much to think about! Thank you for another excellent video.
Thank you so much for this video! I'm a young musician who is very much in love with classical tradition, but not that one of 20th century, but of those centuries before when people composed and performed, improvised their own music.
I write, improvise and perform only my music. 🥰
Classical musicians have always been poor, many of the great composers barely scraped by and were not appreciated until after they died. Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. His music didn't die. If anything, CM is much more alive and widespread now than it ever was, the music of Mozart et al. is enjoyed by far more people today than ever before. And it seems like Early Music using period instruments is continuing to grow. I'm sure composers from the Renaissance to the Romantic never imagined their music would survive this long and be appreciated all around the world. Thanks to RUclips and IMSLP I continually discover music from previous centuries that is "new" to me.
A very interesting point you just made with the recording thing, nowadays with commercial music we get the sound "in your face" clean and punchy, but for example, last week I was watching/listening Atmospheres by Ligeti and... it was like everybody in the concert hall had tuberculosis, they totally ruined the recording :(
Room sound: that's such a great point!! I've always loved piano solo (I play piano) but I also think I prefer listening to solo recordings like piano or cello partly because you can hear the rich little details of the instrument (e.g. hammer sounds of the piano). A full orchestra probably loses this detail because of what you pointed out.
I've just recently begun composing, not academically trained and entirely self taught, and trying to get started as an original composer is daunting. I don't have the skills to play the works i write, so I'm left to ask others to do so, and most musicians know the odds of money are low. And i also compose in the "archaic" styles of classical music, not modern atonal.
I would argue to solve the death of classical music will take people seeing the composer differently. Most people don't take the word seriously anymore, or when they do, they expect this "greatness" like you're the second coming of Mozart. Musicians and composers will need to work together, it's not about "going solo" anymore. I think strong composing/performing pairs will be a way forward for the genre. Thanks for the video.
Before I respond to other points I'd just like to say that I've gone through some other videos you have and have really enjoyed your content and videos. It's always interesting to hear thoughts and view points on this subject, even if I disagree with some of it. I really appreciate the effort and thoughtfulness you've put into your videos.
Wow what a perspective changer honestly 🍃👌🔮great video!
I think you're talking about "professional classical music" here. But most classical music, in terms of hours played, and listened, and sung, and acted, is amateur, and that's the stuff that gives people pleasure and, for kids, a great start in life. We're forming a (UK) group called "Campaign for Music", following the moves by the BBC to cut back on its professional groups (orchestras, choirs) and also the relentless education cutbacks in music education (ie instrumental and choral teaching) that's been going on for the past 20 years. I think things are different in different parts of Europe (and other parts of the world. China may be doing very well, for instance. Africa remains pretty untapped, I believe: at least, we don't see many classical musicians from that part of the world.) (Also consider the world of Theatre - we still do Old Plays, even if the proportion of New Plays is much higher than in Classical Music. But the world of theatre is much more flexible, so I think that part of your argument is spot on. BUT you still need classical musicians for your sound backing... and they have to learn somewhere. Which is what our campaign is about, its about maintaining a flow of money to ensure thaere's still a network of inspirational teachers, organisers, conductors etc. )
I feel like classical music as a genre is getting inherited by video games and movie music. More and more I see orchestras and even opera singers traveling on tours for specially good BGM's. The composers tend to have a background in it too, or take a lot of inspiration from. They are very interesting to listen and the recordings are excellent
Lovely, i think the reason audiences aren't tuning in to classical music is much more insideous ... people aren't playing music or singing themselves anymore.
In the past everyone sang at church . People would play folk instruments down the pub.
"Musicians" were those fancy orchestra people. But in reality most people made music themselves even if it was whistling.
Not sure if you have noticed but happy birthday is not sung as confidently in the past.
You can appreciate the experience of watching a sport ... yet if you have never played it yourself you don't appreciate it as much as you could. For instance watching cricket is popular here in Australia because most Australians have played backyard cricket ... yet American audiences don't get cricket because they haven't played it themselves.
I'm in my forties went to church as a kid played flute in a school band and was in the choir. - classical music is accessible to me because i played Minuet in G .
Did you know pop music is dying too? The streaming model is killing album sales.
But i think all commercial music is dying because people have lost their ability to sing and to play music.
This is a really interesting point I haven’t considered before! I think you’re absolutely right!
An important point! In the 19th and early 20th century, lots of people had pianos at home, and piano music was at its zenith because those who played the piano, if only a little, knew how to appreciate it. Later came instruments like the saxophone, and jazz became very popular. In the second half of the 20th century it was the electric guitar and rock music. Now so many youngsters don't play any musical instrument at all and therefore don't appreciate the music made with them. What consequently dominates is machine-produced pop.
I think it started with defunding music teaching in public schools and just further spiraling down cultural decay
That is unfortunately, absolutely true imho...a new initiative, like the old "Save the Music" is needed so bad, along with an updated approach to music appreciation to supplement a new curriculum
Sharing a thought because of the headphones thing... don't ditch the music, ditch the headphones!
On a hi-fi stereo, the intimacy and high dynamic range of the recordings create a startling realness that can be "seen" just as much as heard. Placement of instruments is easily distinguished, and the glorious spaciousness of the recording venues places you right there in the middle. The most subtle nuances of sound and movement are revealed. You won't just hear the bow move, you'll hear how they're moving it. I know that sounds mystical... it's hard to fully describe. Cheers :)
I think it was Mozart who said, (and I paraphrase with at least a bit of abandon--but not so much as to put something into his mouth that he wouldn't have said) music needs to be both original AND beautiful. By beautiful, of course, he meant something people want to listen to, will go out of their way to listen to, will PAY to listen to. Incidentally, Wolf was pretty good at putting his money where his mouth was at.
The fact is not that there is less good music. It's just enough. Rather, the majority of people have simply different needs in music. I think it’s quite normal that some track without much meaning or musical content gains billions in popularity compared to new classic masterpieces. Classical music has not always been in such great demand.
It is worth accepting the fact that the era has already been replaced by a completely different era. We no longer wear wigs or ride in carriages. The world has changed and so the culture is changing. From this point of view, music finds a new way of expression. Now I'm talking specifically about the modern movement. On the one hand, it causes a lot of contradictions, on the other hand, it helps to understand that the past remains the past and we will not return to it again, it is lost. Still, let's be honest, today's acoustics, instruments, and performers are not at all the same as under Bach, Mozart or Chopin. Everything is constantly changing. I think Chopin might not have recognized his works after hearing them at any world competition
Excellent Cait. Just discovered your YT site. As a product of the Royal Academy of music I’ve often asked myself why Classical musical has fallen from grace at so many levels. Whilst Rock n Roll has been my path since then I watch in awe my ‘classical’ friends continuing to pursue surely the toughest of musical careers. I find myself agreeing with your points of view wholeheartedly and commend your optimistic suggested ‘fix’. Keep up the great work !
Film or game score is the driving force behind appreciation for classical in my opinion if you yourself are not a musician. A big issue is that if your art isn't written for a particular audience that actually currently exists, then don't be surprised you don't end up with one. The expectation of everyone else to care about the thing you care about so much is very arrogant. Expression without an audience in mind is just screaming into the void.
Imo it is not. I can play Dark Souls all day long and at the end might not recover one single piece of music. Older video games didn't for the most try to emulate your "classical" music at all. Even with movies. The harder the music score composers try the more I get bored. Good luck sticking to your classical music nonsense. I enjoy video games and movies for the actual content. I even mute the music most of the time and play my own stuff to create a real fitting atmosphere, not this distracting nonsense.
@@niemand7811 good for you :). Your experience applies to you, but my comment was about how classical has succeeded and where it is failing, not about how much you personally can't stand soundtracks.
I couldn't agree more! This was such a well made and fun to watch video 👏👏👏
I use my experience of playing and singing early music (mostly medieval styles) to create new settings of ancient saga material - new music with old instruments. People who wouldn't normally go to hear a 12C harp and a classical voice hear something different at a local festival and become insterested - it's fun to do and even more fun to chat with audiences about what's involved. I'm nearly seventy and embrace new ways of working - I never liked the old ways to start with!
Came across this video and can totally get your points! Classical music really emphasizes the role of composers instead of performers while today's music does the exact opposite.
Old-school jazz emphasizes the role of performers, but it's nothing like today's popular music... This stuff emphasizes personalities and physical attributes of the performers rather than their ability to actually perform music, which is a situation that doesn't even lie on the scale you're describing.
Good point...and did you notice that poor Jazz was even lower on the overall streams list than classical???
I think it was around 1985, the Royal Opera House staged opera prom, 6 nights of Mozart's best 3 operas, starring dame Kiri, Ruggeiro Raimondi, Thomas Allen and other big stars. Seats were removed from the stalls, so prom goers sit on the floor, and for a few pounds you got to see such performances you'd never forget. Queues for ticket would form well before noon, and would stretch from the ROH to Covent Garden plaza and beyond. Most ardent fans willing to queue for more than 8 hours were young people like myself.
I don't live in the UK any more, but when ever I visit London, I would check what's on at the ROH, and it seems to me they would be very few tickets available unless you book way ahead. It's not my impression that classical music is in serious decline. I reckon Herr Mozart, Bach, Beethoven can keep going for a few hundred years more yet.
Wow. That ad spot edit was amazingly creative
There is still tons of new music being written, but 99% of it is litterally collecting dust on shelves, never having been performed.
All music is dying, simply because people aren’t interested in music as they were. With so many other entertainment fields open to people today, and fewer gatekeepers, culture both high and low is becoming less important in people’s lives.
But having said that, I can say that where I I’ve classical music is thriving. There are a lot of orchestras and smaller ensembles, especially in the early music field.
i know this comment is late but i want you to know that i complete agree. Also do not let the comments discourage you. It is obvious you are pointing out the literal stats of the music business that i work within. And for someone who works and knows people who literally work in the biggest music industries i can 100 % tell you that the snobbishness and the arrogance within majority of your classical musicians as well as the repetitiveness, lack of marketing and "gigs" all play apart and im so glad you hit on that. And for everyone who is downgrading her for speaking logical facts and trying to problem solve..
Shame on you, your apart of the reason ( and look this up because my god some of you guys cannot listen) that in the last 100 years classical music tickets and revenue went down 30%.. And the classical attendance ( no i am not talking Broadway and your world class 0.001 touring performers who profit enough to live off of) only sells 15% of each performance in tickets.. ( which BTW yes is much more then 80 percent of an artist's revenue )
Last take, with social media damaging youth, and our attention span declining every year by 2 percent. How can we expect someone to listen to a classical piece for even 10 minutes? BE FR. you are completely right. We have to market and be more creative if we even want a chance.
Classical music is dying and everyone need to accept
Classical music in North America was quite popular to the "common folk" well into the 70's. Why? Because you had things like the Firestone Hour, where Opera singers came on prime time TV to sing. Opera singers were on Late Night shows like Carson. Every cartoon and children's show had a classical music soundtrack. It was appreciated, marketed to, and shown to everyone. If classical music is hundreds of years old, how come in 1970 it was everywhere, and in 2020 it's nowhere? The music didn't change, the culture did. You are not incentivized to discover and study "Elite" anything anymore. Instead of being taught we must improve ourselves, learn, grow, and mature, people are being told they're perfect just the way they are, don't need no education, or refinement. If you can't be a TikToc singing star by the time you're 14 with 0 effort involved, they don't bother. Look at the Grammy winners this year. Ice Spice, Taylor Swift, Harry Styles, Cardi B. Objectively braindead, soulless music.
We've failed as a culture. That's why high art is dying. We're not being taught what is good and what is not. We're not being taught to value what is good. We've failed music.
That was fresh, thx n Merry Christmas 🌲
A brilliantly articulated and videographed essay.
But if one follows the Formula (which starts 15:20), doesn’t one get … today’s popular music?
I don't know whether classical music is dying or not. I just know my new found love and adoration for it is complete. I found this love in my 50s. And being able to purchase tickets at considerably ticket prices than a football enables me to sample a number of works by numerous composers. This all started by attending the opera in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Attending the opera was a childhood dream of mine. While listening to each opera i discovered a love for Puccini and Mozart. I began to realize that many of these melodies were already familiar to me because i heard them as a child in LoonetTune cartoons or perhaps as background to a commercial or in a film. Now i could place that familiar melody with a composer. I'm able to see many symphonies by using the Passport feature with a local orchestra. I pay a flat fee to attend a set number of shows throughout the season. The orchestra features more but those additional tickets i could pay for at a discounted price. In addition to the local orchestra there is a local classical chamber orchestra season. There is an opera season. There are other works featured throughout the area including Requiems. And local churches feature various works performed on the organ. Our community has a lively classical music calendar whuch is all new to me since i just moved here. Give it time. I think attendence at classical music concerts may begin to rise in the USA. Although birth rates are falling.
This is a very underrated video. I appreciate it.
Kids don't get the option to play real instruments anymore. It's all rock school drums, guitar, keyboard and vocals here in the UK. Kids don't then get to hear and play classical music which often leads to a love of all music. Where are the flautists of the future to play Syrynx. The Clarinetists to play Rhapsody in Blue, to name just two beautiful pieces destined to stay in unplayed in the future.
Masters in composition here as well - was a dissertation away from my DMA. Can't live on teaching wages, comissions are unicorns, and getting performances...unheard of. Let it be known, I have a decent sized catalog for the picking once I'm dead ;) [we all know how this works...]
Also i’m just going to say that i saw three concerts this weekend:
one chamber choir (quartet), one semi-pro regional choir, and the philadelphia orchestra performing mahler 3 with joyce didonato and the philly boys choir…
all of these performances were almost sold out in their respective venues….. so…….
Soundtracks are the gateway drug in my experience & so many are more open to it.
The audience for classical music has always been predominantly older people. I'm Gen X so-called and when I was in my 20s going to concerts, it was the same. Watch concert footage from the 1940s - its the same. It is not and never will be for the masses and yes, it does take, for most, a little bit living to appreciate it. Don't be too concerned about it.
Discussions like yours always remind me of a cartoon in the New Yorker that cracked me up: A well dressed couple is walking by a marquee announcing a Symphony program, which reads...."Now playing: Brahms Symphony Nr 1 in C minor, and Wet Tee Shirt Contest".....this is a perfect parody of what you are suggesting.......
that's what alfred schnittke did, and even ultra conservative and racist composers like john borstlap think he's good
That is exactly what I am thinking, I am trying to explore the lesser known music of earlier centuries, and there is a lot, like really really a lot, and I compose from time to time, even though in ancient style, but I am serious about it
I know the need to revolutionize our repertoire, and maybe our performance
Well, part of it is that classical music got increasingly esoteric....overly intellectual....one elephant in the room is atonal music....the public doesn't get it....the thing is that there is a ton of underperformed, under-recorded high quality tonal classical music being written...the conundrum is the orchestras program little of it because they feel only the tried and true brings the audience in. European classical music is still very tied to the Avant Garde. I think they have to ditch the canon to some extent and get unfrozen...and speak a musical language people can understand.
The marketing aspect is one key...people like Two Set Violin have the right idea. They are showing a fun side, both honoring classical tradition and poking fun at conventions and cliches. And singers like Jacob Joseph Orlinski are great exemplars of a new classical music that appeals to a new generation. He's hot, can appear shirtless in a video, sings like an angel and he's a marvelous breakdancer... but you know talent and being marketable and beautiful don't always align. The other thing is when you talk about new music, and consumption..the marketing and demand cycle is about churning out mass produced, highly synthetic studio music...most of it consists of a few basic chords...so while the music that sells millions in streaming now is relevant-- as a species it has some currency--the songs itself are relevant for about a minute. Let's look at the reality that this video overlooks. It is a testament to the music and performers (wealthy patrons too for better or worse) that music written over 2 centuries ago is still around at all. I can tell you catagorically 99.9 percent of what is relevant now will NOT be around in 50 years. Does anybody know a pop tune that was a hit from 150 years ago? Not many. There are some old traditional songs...most older songs like church hymns have institutional continuity to account for their survival including Christmas carols
I do feel that adapting to streaming and music as recording is another key. People need to take music with them anywhere. The other rub is that to get a symphony orchestra together to perform and to record requires a concert all, just on sheer scale or a studio big enough to hold an orchestra....There may be something archaic about this but it's darn special. Of course with today's engineering musicians in an orchestra can record parts and assemble them in a studio...but it's still way more challenging than recording a 5 piece rock band.
Which brings me to another point...there is a complexity and quality in making and performing this music that demands a lot and by and large is in its intent opposed to mass production...I used to write novels. My first one took me 7 years to write. It was just complex and took a lot of time because I have a very organic process and am not writing to formula...And I wrote it and took that time to do this without any real hope that I would ever make money...I wrote it for it's own sake...most "relevant" music today is just written to a formula that makes money...write a certain song that's like the one that was a big hit last year and you have a big hit this year...that said there are wonderful new songs being written but most of the best are not massively popular...they have smaller dedicated followings.
the length of classical music is another barrier. It takes a person looking for more than a good beat, who will sit through a 30 or 40 minute composition. As I compose music and post on RUclips...I know that it's hard to get anyone to listen beyond 2 or 3 minutes...about the length of a pop song. Can we blame this on the classical music establishment? I think not....So without turning classical music into nothing but miniatures, it would be hard to compete with the listening habits of a contemporary audience and survive on it's own terms. i.e. symphonic or operatic music. It does seem that you have to tell a story because everybody has converted to thinking in terms of tv and movies...they like move scores with a classical sound so long as they can relate to characters or story. So what then of absolute music that just exists for it's own sake?
Perhaps the truth is there is not much of an audience for that simply because we live in different times with different technology and very different values about what it means to connect with music.
In other words, accept that classical music is on its deathbed and give the Public something else!
@@kendrickpereira37 No realize that there is a need for change. You never know when ideas and tastes come back to different values...30 years ago if you had said people would be releasing their music again on vinyl records you would said they were crazy...but I wonder if you are even old enough to remember. Composers write what they like and they do it because they can.
You are correct on EVERY point! Excellent video.
Radio, Recording, and TV, Video brings everything to our door. So we really don't need to go out and see anything live. Also, it is a richer society with other interesting things. Sports is one of them. This wasn't the case in the days of classical music.
The existence or non-existence of other competing activities notwithstanding,I wonder what proportion of the population did actually hear classical music in the time of Haydn and Mozart :-} ?
@@kendrickpereira37 Like today, only the cultured and well to do.
@@dfpolitowski2 Your reply does not link to the post you are replying to and and there are so many comments posted that there is no prospect of my finding it. I have no idea what you are responding to.
@@kendrickpereira37 You said: "The existence or non-existence of other competing activities notwithstanding ,I wonder what proportion of the population did actually hear classical music in the time of Haydn and Mozart :-} ?" " I understood what you were driving at with that comment and I replied said "Like today, only the cultured and well to do." Do what? go to classical concert halls.
@@dfpolitowski2 Ah! Thank you!
Something related to what you were is the lack of willingness from classical music people. I want to get into opera singing, and during research on their technmiques and stuff I alays find myself feeling that the writer is trying to look at me from over a platform or something.
Like, when I was looking info for a Do in Petto, one of the articles I read was talking about how "opera and mofdern music shouldn't mix", and that "arias shouldn't be sung with modern style singing even if it's sung properly". The writer talked about how this great modern style singer sung an aria in modern style and it was "like a screech to their ears" even though it was sung superbly. I read it and immediatly thought "yep, this is why opera is dying".
It makes me wonder if the writers of these sort of articles forget people in the opera sing that way, with over enphasis on things like squillo, chiaroscuro contrast, the glottal expansion and so on because back then there weren't microphones and they played this songs for large crowds of people to hear.
Like, I would bet anything that, had they had mics as we do today, they would have sung in what we call "modern style singing".
I think you made a good point here...while I am no real afficiando for opera, I do enjoy the music...but that HEAVY vibrato singing style, that, like you said, was a necessity back in the day, sounds absolutely ridiculous in this day and age imho. Its the sort of thing that you make fun of when youre 4...and when youre 40! With all due respect to the craft and the years of practice and refinement it takes to master this historically informed performance style, something just shuts down in my acceptance of it...even if I can enjoy the music, the story, the sets, the premise, etc, I just would rather hear the arias and recitatives performed with a more pure tone and the vibrato used more tastefully and to better effect if kept in check...imagine a voice with the purity of a Sarah McLaughlin or Sting singing these parts, and that's what I would prefer in modern opera at least anyway...otherwise, give me Glass's Einstein on the Beach or The Who's Tommy or Pink Floyd's The Wall as opera
lol..loved that sense of humour! Great video and observations.
Can i add that yes the acoustics of a room are cool and magical but also how f-ing cool would it be to have an amplified concert? Are you telling me that if mahler had access to subwoofers he would have passed? COME ON i want to feel those double basses in my body and not be distracted by some old geezer sneezing next to me because that is louder than the music.
I guess your question about Mahler will never be answered but I think it very understandable if he did "pass" on - what was it? "sub-woofers"?
It mystifies me why people like listening to an electrical reconstruction of a sound rather than to the sound itself.
I’m not a musician nor grew up with music in my home. But along the way I developed a taste for maybe not classical music but definitely symphonic music. Used to go the Hollywood Bowl 4-5 each summer in the 70’s & 80’s. It was wonderful. Moved away then came back recently. It’s still there, but back then the Philharmonic would play 5 nights with a few nights for other “stuff”. Now it’s reversed. Maybe one night out 10 is symphonies. There’s just not enough people demanding it.
I live in Montréal QC, and I often see the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal and the Orchestre Métropolitain host free outdoor concerts in the parks and streets of the city during the summer months. Everytime I go to one of their outdoor concerts (usually Beethoven's and Mahler's symphonies and sometimes musicals), there is a huge crowd, and the police have to block vehicle traffic of a few blocks to let the audience in. From what I can see, there is not a lack of young folks in the crowd. I think this is an excellent way of promoting classical music and making it more accessible to the public.
wow what an amazing video! your editing skills and production values are insane! absolutely incredible work. Thanks very much for your hard work, it's much appreciated
Hello Cait, you're the first person to explain the exact same points I've been expressing to fellow classical musicians for a long time. In a lot of ways, I believe 'mainstream' classical music (standard symphonic classical music, opera, ballet, etc....) is already on its deathbed and has been for some time. I believe that most crossover classical music doesn't generally work because a lot of the times it's far too pandering and gimmicky and non-classical audiences can see through the act. In the same way that classical music of its time was based on the folk/pop music of its time which made it relevant, we would need a new generation of bold and daring musicians in our time to reject the status quo and make new and relevant compositions that they can perform while going on tour for more people to care. I also believe that as soon as a music genre becomes institutionalized (taught for a degree at a college), it's almost always a death sentence for said genre. You can see how Jazz is slowly dying in the same way as classical music already has, and not too far behind is Rock and Roll. To really drive the point home, will be hilarious to see the day when one can get a bachelor's degree in Hip-Hop Performance some 20+ years down the road, and wonder why Rap became a dying genre in the future. Just a prediction....would like to know what you think about all this, and thank you for your video!
This is such great food for thought, I hadn’t considered how schooling might have an effect on all this too but of course you’re right! I wonder how K-pop schools teach and if there are any differences we could learn from. 🤔
No way, I had no clue there were K-Pop schools! I really wonder how much of that works out. Can you manufacture success that lasts a lifetime? When I think of great artists of our time in popular music, I think of people who carved their own path in the industry, and those who stuck true to their vision and honed it. I doubt that can be manufactured, and it is something which one must discover on their own. What things do you believe might be different k pop schools vs conservatories?
Isn't Philip Glass such a modern composer who transcripts modern music into strict compositional form? But where does that lead him? Other instrumentalists and have you not seen are on his trails and earn their name in his shadow already. And the man is still alive (or so I hope to the second and beyond as I write this comment). And yes, it does sound more like a noisy gimmick than actual music. Sadly. I would love to hear a genuine composition based off of music from my own generation. But instead we have to deal with more Stockhausens and the likes.
Glass gets a bad rap really, but I get it...when you hear every TV commercial imitating Glassworks/MAD Rush, etc, it does start to become gimmicky...but besides his early hard-core minimalism like Music in 12 Parts...check out his 2nd, 3rd, and 8th symphonies, his 4th and 5th String Quartets, his concertos (violin especially)...and you will be moved by a genuine artist/composer who just happens to retain elements of his former Minimalist approach, now turned into modern masterworks (IMHO)
@@niemand7811 I personally don't mind Glass at all and I find his music quite brilliant. I'll say, I would count him as someone who is quite belonging to the establishment at this point. I'm thinking of people who are active and although I'm being agist, under the age of 40. When I think to the time when composers in the past were the most prolific, it generally has been in their youth....our current classical establishment doesn't generally care what young composers have to say and the opportunities to have their music played at the highest level is almost non-existent....which is tragic considering how many brilliant potential artists of classical music aren't interested because there isn't interest and money to backup the dead genre. You'll find most of our musical geniuses composing movie music, or making char topping pop tunes
Finally, an approachable analysis of this issue 👏👏👏
Nice work, keep it on!
3:36 is bizarre to me. Classical sounds the best in my headphones. Granted, they're somewhat expensive headphones, but still. The sound quality on a typical modern DG, Decca, Naxos, Chandos, or Pentatone release (for instance, not to exclude other great labels) is light years better than a typical pop or rock album.
With respect to the rest of the thesis, it has given me food for thought but I don't know if I'm on board with the totality of it. I am a classical nut, and am not wealthy by any means. I also like pop, rock and jazz. But classical is an absolute tonic in my life, and a good 90% of my music purchasing in the last 5 years has been CM. My family and I get to perhaps 5 paid concerts a year with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and then attend a few more free concerts outdoors in Millennium Park. Between the two it seems like there is demand for the music - the venues are always packed.
If it were hard for me to find live events to attend, I might be more in line with the thesis here. I do understand the critique that the majority of money is coming from wealthy patrons and serves to reify their tastes... but I share similar tastes, and hasn't it always, to some degree? Haydn was employed by either a baron or a prince for basically 50 years.
I do however totally agree that the stuffiness and etiquette of the live CM experience should be loosened up.
I think it depends on *who* is in those audiences. If it’s the same people over and over again, that’s also worrying. And perhaps the repertoire? I can fully imagine that “An Evening at the Movies” might be an incredibly in-demand concert for the CSO, but perhaps Haydn would be less so. I definitely agree that there are loyal fans and shows aplenty, but the financial health of most organizations is frightening to consider. I never felt secure knowing my paycheck came from a house that was reliant on the generosity of its wealthiest audience members to stay in business. 😕
I agree wrt headphones, especially in today's overly noisy world. Sennheisers for me. :)
Very well done and completely on point. Excellent watch.
I have many classical recordings of symphonies, concertos and large scale works for chorus and orchestra. The great majority are very well recorded, including many from the '50s and '60s on Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereo. They sound great on headphones.
I think film and gaming soundtracks are the key, and it definitely needs to get away from the image of pretentiousness and gatekeeping. I'll be honest, I wasn't interested in classical music when in was twenty, I was obsessed with Oasis and other Britpop bands, but soundtracks from people like Howard Shore and John Williams helped me appreciate the genre a lot more.
Love all haters in the comments, haha. Thank you for bringing up the recording issue, it's so frustrating listening to super reverby recordings that are barely audible. "Classical" music needs dynamics, I get it, but in a recorded format they really need to change it up here.
imo, classical recordings of the 90s into the 2000s were peak. the goal is to simulate the experience of sitting in a concert hall, and the reason why there is a massive industry of hi-res music and audio equipment, it compliments the genre well. i think if you want to raise your experience with listening to classical music you should probably start with your source, and then your equipment. a quality source (hi-res lossless audio, not streamed), with a quality DAC and amp paired with reference headphones (my preference; Sennheiser HD800S) helps a ton. things like dynamics, instrument separation, soundstage play a huge factor.
i've been a subscriber to my local orchestra for over 15 years now and i can attest that although it's difficult to simulate the experience of sitting at a concert hall and hearing every instrument sing harmoniously in sync, getting extremely close is a possibility. the only issue is, it's not cheap.
I completely agree, but it’s such a shame that’s the case. The cost is so prohibitive for so many people. I think I’d ultimately prefer having two experiences: the recorded and the live. That might also bring us closer to the relevance of other music genres in today’s world. Instead of catering to the 1% who have the equipment, why don’t we cater to the 99% who don’t?
Well put...it is another barrier to entry to have to get all this high end equipment to fully enjoy the classical experience-like you said, it's another elitist element to contend with, that potential new listeners will turn away from
So, what can we do about it though really??? Is it all about EQ, Compression, and Multitracking every single instrument and singer in a Mahler symphony to make it "punchy" enough for the kids to climb on board??? I'm not sure...I worked with a video/audio production company that recorded and filmed student orchestras and marching bands, etc...and I can personally attest that with a good orchestra in a GOOD room, the two condenser mics over the conductors head, really can produce a rich, powerful recording...especially for the homogeneous strings, but depending on that hall and the pieces performed, there are too many variables in that situation that make "room sound " just awful like you said...what about rearranging some of the orchestral seating to make a more balanced sound (in other words, in modern music, the bass register is always in stereo, but in the traditional orchestral set up, the bass is mainly to the right of the Sonic spectrum, making it a bit odd for modern ears-let alone the period being performed, etc) sorry this is so long, but what do you recommend about improving the recorded sound??? Love your video, editing, and delivery btw...especially kicking down the 4th wall for product placement LMAO!!!
@@ScoresUnstitched It's not hard to get a good pair of headphones, they are quite cheap nowadays. I would even say pop music would sound better if they were more like classical or jazz recordings.
Jazz now has very similar issues.
can't find the timestamp but was surprised that Country was so popular on streaming services.
Still, there's something to be said about "cultural relevance". How long are current musical trends going to stay relevant, and further ahead ... what will we do when we run out of trends ?
I strongly doubt anyone will remember Taylor Swift a century or two from now.
That is, if music is still made by human beings by then
Music in general is dying, not just classical. And I care. I like music.
As for "recorded sound as close to as if live - it sucks" (and all the other points about "changing volume" aka _dynamics,_ not using compressors or electronic/digital mixing & individual mic'ing etc). No, it doesn't suck. It's an acoustic performance, vs. arguably extremely artificial ones, putting things together & modifying sound arbitrarily with "modern studio production". Might as well make everything electronic, like some do. Or AI. _That's_ what sucks, and has gotten so bad that I hardly buy any music these days in the non-classical realm. Prove me wrong, lol.
the reason classical musicians have that kind of recording is to show that we aren't going to use technology to help us and is is pure skill when we use stereo it is to easy to project the right sound and is no longer a challenge its like if you play a video game and find all the cheat codes the game is no longer fun and as a 13 year old i would not have it another way
p.s. if you feel the same way pls like this i what people to see it
and as 13 year old i would not have it any other way
A wonderful exposition! I wonder why classical literature (including Shakeare's plays, written centuries before mostclassical music) seems to be approachable by most people. I think it's because they feel there is some entry point to help them climb aboard. Challenging art 16:56 needs intrigue or initiation by a friend, or perhaps via television or even school lessons. Children are entitled to be introduced to the great artistic achievements of humans, if only to balance the tragic side.
I agree 100% with you on this...perhaps a more modern reworking of Bernstein's great Young People Concerts for the modern age would be ideal for turning the kids on to this beautiful sound world...I would say, keep Lenny's scripts and excerpts, and animate them, either using his voice (With MAESTRO...he is back in the spotlight now), or get a new classical evangelist to present Bernstein's approach (Benjamin Zander and Michael Tilson Thomas are past their prime), but someone with the energy and enthusiasm for it that is contagious is needed ASAP!!!
I totally agree with you!! It makes me sick that not enough people are addressing these issues. I wonder how we can get many more people to address them and eventually persuade the people in charge of classical music to change the industry.
Okay, you have a point. It has become an interpreter's art (especially when it comes to recordings), and that is never going to become something that everyday people do again. I can't imagine parties full of young people arguing whether Glenn Gould's "Well Tempered Clavier" is the best, and what Back would have thought of it.
I think you're on to something! I have a history playing classical music in academia, grew up with it at home, but I haven't gone out of my way to listen to classical pieces for a few years now. It's just a genre like any other. Jazz encounters these similar issues with their "programming," their tunes, with other youtubers like Adam Neely have pointing out how old tunes are falling out of rotation. The tunes become tired and fall out of vogue.
But where did those tunes come from in the first place? How did they become standards? It's that they were pop music at some point! Show tunes and the like. Some skilled pianists at my high school could play Moonlight Sonata, but *everyone* could play "River Flows in You." Because it was popular.
I don't think classical music needs to be saved in perhaps the way you're thinking. Musicians can make money in other ways than just by playing music, and my guess is a dying genre isn't going to make struggling musicians. You can have the best content in the world but if you market it poorly no one will watch it. My guess is, most classical musicians are doing other things adjacent to their music, starting youtube channels and the like, and probably doing fine, or just making do in this economy. The genre can become as obscure and elitist as it likes, the people who like it will listen, and the people who play it will keep it relevant in their own way as long as they're surviving, probably.
Addendum-I am part of the generation (the dreaded B.B's) who got turned on to classical music via FM rock radio in the 70s, during the progressive rock period. There were covers and arrangements of popular classical works by those bands, and they used electronic instruments to mimic the sound or the symphony orchestra and chamber ensembles in their original compositions. And that led to fans going straight to the source and collecting recording of those popular pieces by the best known composers. It's a pity that today's popular music can't continue to be a bridge to the music in the classical world.
great video!
OK, gotta take a bit against your stereotyping at 3:40. They don't WANT that. They just know that tends to bring out the sound they want. Or more often the audience doesn't, the producers of the record do.
oh, and on the topic of 'original' - at least in classical it is still the work of a single person (yeah, some composers have assistants for orchestration, just like film score composers do).
But when I look at the fact that it took 12 credited songwriters for a particular #1 hit recently? Yeah, it may be 'original', but it is hardly the work of 'the artist' that people are buying.
Meanwhile, "classical" still encompasses a lot of new music being written, in spite of the name implying that it is only the work of dead composers.
A marketing problem perhaps? Still, i'll be honest, you're (so far) not helping matters by ignoring some of these in catering to the stereotypes.
This made a lot of since, especially the live performance part..
I apologize if I offended you, but I felt you were apparently unfamiliar with the instrument. The guitar, I would guess, has been around at least two thousand years in one form or another. The list was referring to the huge availability of Classical Guitar on RUclips. Classical Guitar is classical music.
Contemporary classical and jazz has zero future as stand alone genres. The only time extreme dissonance is really enjoyable is in a good horror/slasher flick.
I play in a Baroque ensemble....and would rather perform for the 3 or 4 hundred thoughtful people who attend the concerts than the 50,000 Swifties that jam a stadium to hear that pablum....