Colin Hawkins Mark would win hands down. Not a surprise that an XC racer would be faster on an XC course than a DH racer. And an DH racer would be faster than an XC racer on a DH course. But I think what they were getting at is that the XC racer was faster on the descending sections of the XC course than the DH racer.
+William Keys But you can't say that he was faster because of his superior skills. His condition is trained for particullary this type of exercise so he was not tired at all, while DH rider was almoust dead on the top :P . Its interesting how good the XC racer would be with this kind of preperation on enduro racing competition.
this was cool, kudos to Nino for participating too. If I'm not mistaken Nino has a lot of experience with downhill too. I think he did it when he was younger or his dad was a coach or something to that affect. I'll say this, from WC races I've watched online, its clear that Nino can handle a bike. We're all taking this a little too seriously, this was fun and interesting!
Jouber Corlaiti C. Nascimento That hardtail was probably a few pounds lighter though and was a rocket on the climbs though, but I wonder the time of both of them on descents with dual suspension, I think being within a second or 2 to the #1 XC downhill guy on a wafter thin tread tire equipped super light weight bike is pretty good (btw dude was riding on Flats! So Downhill!)
***** Merely the fact that you were pointing at Brits. He is one. I would not be so sure about doping, since you brought it up: if Quintana had made that break on the TdF, would you accuse him?.. And if everyone's doping (which often seems that way, unfortunately), why would it be relevant re the opinion of British DH riders?..
Ruben Williams In my town most people ride very technical enduroish trails on hardtails, in the last enduro event a XC guy riding a 29er hardtail was the second best time overall and other guys on hardtails competed and placed well... my bike is a 29er hartail with an inverted stem and only 100mm of travel and I do better on downhills than dudes on full suspension bikes, its about not being dependant on the bike, Im planning on getting a full suspension bike very soon tho
larry david Yes whilst I agree for the most part not to depend on your bike. There is another saying in Mountain Biking and that's "Don't let your bike be thing that's holding you back" Everyone should ride HT before FS though first, if they haven't already. Selecting line choices and just general handling is very much best used on a hardtail, and then once you feel ready for the next step and the commitment of FS then make the switch.
By that logic, we should all start on 700c fixed-gear road bikes, for ultimate handing and line-picking skills. Utter nonsense. Each bike has a purpose, it does not have to be a direct progression.
Well done Marc, no shame in being 2:30 from Nino! Shame you weren't on like for like bikes.. Maybe both on a trail bike to level the playing field. Or as others have said standing start like a gravity enduro, Neil could of had a go too!
Chris Rice Hey Chris, It was a cool test unreal how fast Nino was. Yeah that would be cool hopefully we can set that up perhaps at the end of the season, thanks for your comment, Marc
Hey guys, I really like these videos. Definitely the strength of this channel is that you have the right ratio of casual / professional about the videos. The content is fun and actually useful but you don't feel bored after 30 seconds keep it up!
hats off to Marc for not shying away from competition outside his comfort zone. I'll always respect a guy losing doing his best. when something looks easy from afar, it rarely is. great channel keep up the good work
thechosendude both use same kind of bikes for the whole track.They must do it both with the XC and with the fully. And both riders should be familiar with the bikes. Anything else is just nonsense. And it should be a technical DH. And ofc one rider is specialized with DH and the other in XC. The only scientific thing who you can maybe say is interesting that the 26" is still the fastest on descents followed by 29" and then the 27,5" and at the ascents the 29er followed by 26" and 27,5". I dunno why 27,5 was that bad.
Vanadium Even if they were on same bikes, it does not matter. It's a closed circuit track. There is equal climbing as there is to downhill. The disparity between time and gap of climbing always outweighs the disparity of descending, since the speed and time margins of climbing between XCers vs DHers is higher than that of descending from XCers and DHers. There's no way Marc would ever have a faster lap on a closed circuit XC track against Nino - it's impossible unless Nino wrecks. Maybe he could have faster DH sections, if he paced himself to be prepared for them, but it would more than likely INCREASE his overall laptime by having to slow the climbs (again, due to the irregular ratio).
thechosendude and that's why I talk about a track who got a absolute technical DH section who is even not easy for most fully riders. It is clear that you do more time uphill then downhill but with a technical single trail integration ? Huh who knows. Also you see what bike can go faster DH then haha...
They make a good point here honestly. It's harder to go full speed downhill when you're already knackered from climbing up the hill in the first place. XC is more like road cycling in that conserving energy is an important part of the races. You can't just count on "sprinting" the entire race or you'll burn out in no time.
Well Nino had a better bike, and it was full sus vs hardtail, also Nino got his bike fitted to him and he rides it all the time, did mark had his bike fitted, and also how many time did he used it before??
When I raced XC, there were a number of us that were also alpine ski racers and we were pretty damn fast on the descents. We didn’t get to run many dedicated downhills, so our XC races included a lot of intense descents. For not having full suspension, we were pretty damn fast. Mind you, it was the 90s and bike tech wasn’t as advanced, but considering what we had to ride, we weren’t slow.
nino works very hard to get where he is, doing some unbelievable gym workouts in addition to training on the bike. i imagine that even on a pure downhill ride, nino would put out a very respectable result.
Harry Jenkins Global Mountain Bike Network I'd love to see you guys race it out on the old Bronco Bikes they had at Thorpe Park back in the old days ;)
I think you guys should do another where you ONLY do the downhill bits. Since the gap was as small as it was when Marc was tired, I'd imagine he has a point about the XC guys' downhill skills. Massive props to the cross-country racers though!
Best video you've ever done. I thought your downhill vs xc video was balls as you had clearly not raced xc at a truly elite level. You are slower on descents for two reasons, fixed seat and most importantly fatigue, massive fatigue. Racers usually try desperately to gain any kind of tiny rest possible on the descents while also moving rapidly. Basically, it means no rest. If you push hard on the descents while racing xc, you crash. Ask Nino.
Ketzal Sterling Hey Ketzal, I have done a couple of XC races in my time, I could not recover and bring my HR down at any point of the lap, and also trying to be aggressive like I am on a trail bike is difficult on the little hard tail.It was a great test and Nino was really accommodating to us on a race weekend. Thanks for your comment, Marc
Yo Marc. Being within 2 minutes of Nino was very impressive. More of these battle videos please, great fun. Clearly you're fitter than you let on. Have a ponder on the segment idea I posted. Mountain bike performance vs price battle. I'm betting the bike makes almost zero difference...
+Alex E Pretty well ist not enough in XC against Nino Schurter ;-). But it was impressive and i would like to see a DH competition. But that won't happen because Nino will not do that as long as he races for world cup. I would like to see the Downhill Time on the XC Tracks with a DH Bike and a fresh and rested Marc ;-). Just to see whats possible there.
I agree with you . I believe that however there was a disproportion, they took the strongest mountain bike endurance athlete in the world, with a descent, not very technical, I think he got very little tired in DH, he was able to express his skills also in DH. it was a nice video. i think down hill and xc are two different sports. nino with his athletic qualities could also run in road cycling at an elite level of course. It would be nice to see a race of nino, in DH, with a DH bike, to make a real comparison. Marco Aurelio Fontana, for example, bronze medal at the London Olympics in XC, competed in the Italian DH elite championship, he finished 28th
first of all, great video.. you found out the hard way, what I was thinking before you tried this...its easy to say for DH rider, that XC riders are slow on downhills.. but try that at max heart beats.and imagine riding like this for hour and half, up and down at nearly top speedwell you did found out, so all cool :)
Nino has raced DH before and his dad was on the National DH team and I'm pretty sure he was too for awhile (not 100 percent) but anyway he's a strong descender so I would like to see Marc and Nino on a DH track to see how that would play out
The point of this video is Marc have said once or twice XC racers are too slow on downhills, so they wanted to compare an experienced DH racer like Marc in an XC race and see if such statement was really true.
I've found that there are people that just "get" descending better than most. I raced XC for a long time, did fairly well, and feel I was average at descending. When I ride with others, most people, I'm just faster descending than they are. I've done it so much and I just tune in. When I've ridden with my cousin, a pro DH racer and XC racer, he just leaves me behind with no effort, like he's waiting for his mom to catch up. I know others who just ride faster downhill and take better lines more easily, and I'm not bad at it. I seems like its almost a different type of human who is a really good descender.
You should do Nino vs Marc on a DH course to see how Nino's pure DH skills measure up. I'm curious how XC pros DH-only skills compare. No doubt theyre just fast all around, but it'd be fun to see how they do head to head in the DH realm.
Zach Shencopp nino obviously admitted Marc was better at decent, if you see previous video, marc said why XC are slow at Dh, now marc using XC bike, realizes how dificult it is to ride on a xc bike on decent.
You did fine Mark. Nino is arguably the strongest man riding a bike today. The guys a successful road pro as well. A good video would be to throw Nino and Aaron Gwin on DH rigs and time them on a World Cup DH track. I bet Nino would only be slightly slower.
honestly, good idea but they need to ride the same bike to really compare between them. Experienced xc guy on full suspension vs first time riding that hardtail is like compare apple to orange. Looking forward for a better part 2
I've got a segment idea for you. I want to see a massive bike price performance comparison. Field of experienced racers to learners riding super cheap to MEGA expensive bikes. Timed race laps on a mixed circuit. Up, down and flat. I'm betting that no one bike is fastest and that difference is basically zero. It will be all rider.
What a shitty comparison, jesus... Let's take a pro XC rider that is familiar with the track and bike and compare him with a DH rider on an unfamiliar bike and track. Next time give Marc a DH bike and do timed runs on an actual DH track. Nino on his XC and Marc on a DH rig. It's obvious who would be better then.
Vazquez12able Sounds like you missed the point. The reason people assume XC racers are "slow" downhill is because they're already riding with a super elevated heart rate before they even drop into the downhill, whereas DH racers come out of the start gate at resting HR.
From 4:56 to 5:06 in this video you will actually witness Neil kill Marc's soul and the facial expressions on Marc's face are that of pure life contemplating. #IoncesawNeilkillamanin10seconds
To only be 3 minuets slower than Nino on world cup XC course is still quite impressive. It makes some interesting points though and is a good advert for XC racing. They should do Greg Minnar Vs Liam Killeen next time.
Well done sir. It would be neat to see yourself and Nino on a purist downhill track to compare times; chains off so his fitness doesn't play such a vital roll. As you said, by the time you reached the down grade you were pretty gassed, arms are tired, etc.
I thought the difference will be bigger but then I realized there were not big climbs and the track was short. Anyways, 2,5min from Schurter for the first try is not bad at all.
2.5 for one lap...but you have to be able to maintain it for 8 laps, which is where training comes into play. Even if he could've done a superhuman effort and maintained that 2.5 minute disparity, he would've been pulled from the track by halfway point (lap four) because of the 20% lapped riders rule.
thechosendude I know that but it's still not bad comparing to one of the world's bests in my opinion. I would have guessed at least three minutes difference.
+Global Mountain Bike Network Marc this was a fantastic video thanks for doing this and having a candid and honest outcome to it. The overlaps with GCN and GMBN are helping to bring down the gap that certain webpage (named after a color) has worked so overwhelming hard to divide the sport. What you've demonstrated that most of that group fails to understand when you redline your heart rate on climb making the downhill excessively technical put the riders more at risk then does to challenge them. From my prospective them demanding XC races look like downhill course is like road racers demanding slope style or DJ transitions/landing have rock gardens so it looks like Mt biking. No would take that opinion even remotely serious.
Something that hasn't properly been put to the test is 'How far can you push a hardtail?' It's all very well comparing an xc hardtail and a downhill bike on the same xc loop, or in this case comparing a dh and xc riders skills, but I want to see a dropper post on an xc hardtail and see how far a dh rider can push it before the trail becomes impossible without a full sus bike, then do that same run on a full sus bike to see how big the benefits are.
+Global Mountain Bike Network - end of season why dont you get Nino up to a challenge of a downhill race against Marc? I know he is capable on skis, road bikes, moto cross etc but never seen him on a DH track.
Given how depressed Mark looked at the end maybe you should get a Neil Vs Mark presenters XC or enduro race going. Give him a chance to get some pride back
Hello, GMBN! What`s the best way to improve cardio? Do I push it the heart rate over the limit for a while and rest for a while, push it over the limit all the time or maintain bellow recomended max heart rate? Thank you! Ricardo
kadupf Hey Ricardo, My best advise would be to do short sharp efforts within your trail or xc rides, this way you can still enjoy riding but perhaps not notice so much your efforts.Good luck. Marc
Weird thing is how can u compare Scott full suspension xc bike with a Hardtail Scott with just front running fox while Nino using front and back DT swiss suspension
Downhill speed? MTB ERW is growing up. "In wheel" suspension for major impacts, morphing cushion layer for prescribed tread block. Anti bounce, high frequency...Millisecond adjustment to the surface. US 9,004,120 B2 Vacuum pressure...Linear Treads?
EnergyReturnWheel Don't get me wrong, I know what it is and it exists (and I'm bloody hyped for when it hits regular market!). I was pulling your leg because your first post was basically a bunch of buzzwords. Now, your second post was actually 2 entire sentences, so we have some progress here :) Anyway, cheers and take it easy ;)
I think one of the reasons Marc was slower was because he got tired, and he was on a hardtail he wasn't used to. You could've also done an Enduro race style of lap on the descents to compare.
Only watching both bikes used by Marc and Nino, we knew that Nino was going to be the winner... what a shameful comparison. If you do it, do it with the same bikes: not a Hard tail Marc, and a double suspension Nino. It´s ridiculous.
***** Hey Ausias, Are you saying that the best xc riders in the World should all ride the same bike? It would be a little boring don't you think? The majority of the field race on hardtails and also a mixture between 27.5 and 29 inch wheels.Thanks for you comment. Marc
I don't mean that...but if you are going to do something special like a test of a descend to show which rider is the best, you should provide them the same things.this is like test who is the fastest biker of motogp, and you give Rossi his yamaha, and you give Lorenzo a scooter. It's stupid.
+Global Mountain Bike Network He is right though, giving them both the same bike would be a fairer test, especially as this is a test on downhills. The full-sus would be quicker than a hardtail if you timed Nino going down the course on both bikes.
+Ausias75 I agree, I would have preferred that they both used the same or similar bike. It was interesting to see, however, that Marc was only a second or three off of Nino's pace, downhill, on the hard tail(even considering that Nino would have been recovering from his faster up-hills)! I have a dual and a hard-tail, and I actually prefer the feel of the latter for XC, but the dual is definitely a much smoother ride.
Wait a minute.. you're saying that over 10 to 13 minutes of riding, he was only 1-3 seconds slower WHILE completely exhausted on the downhills?!? I'd say that's amazing!
No one seems to have pointed out that Marc probably was faster on the downhills because those 1,2,3 sec differences look like they would have been more than accounted for in the greater pace Nino carried into the start of the downhill sections...?
The top guys have to be good a descending and ascending. If you are at the top you cannot afford to lose many seconds on either. It's like most things you can be strong in one aspect of something and be good, but to be the best you have to be a strong all round athlete. I becomes especially obvious when you compare some of the more road bike orientated riders further back in the pack to riders like Remy Absalon and Nino Schurter, it is becoming more and more that way in downhill as well. Those who are contently top downhillers tend to be in excellent shape, you just cannot afford to losing seconds because of a lack of fitness or strength at the end of a run
Kudos for even trying that. Only that far down on Nino on someone else's bike etc, pretty good I would have to say. I'd still be in the car park farting around with the seat post. Nice one! Tim
BUT; Was it a 29'er vs 27.5? Was it bike set-up? Was it a grown man with a backpack selling bright ideas? lol Were there dirty goggles involved? Clips or flats? Did you forget about your fork lockout?
i think you guys got it all wrong. its about the whos faster on the decents not whos fastest overall, so it should be standi g start start in every one of the downhills, and not a overall lap time. still respect to nino, he is blistering fast!
Marc should get Scott Spark to practice on, so they would have same bike. I think that there would be probably no difference. Second thing is that that was XC trail not DH from what we could see on the video.... Summary 1. should have the same bikes 2. should have equal practice on them Regards, Peter
A question that bothers me: How would i do if i had to ride a saddle that high on decents? You are just not able to use your rinding skills. You can't push corners or suck up bumps. It limits the ability to move on the bike. Maybe that's the point why Nino is faster. He adapted to his bike and to this track. If the decents were a little bit more technical, he would have lost a lot more time, because his static riding style.
Put Nino on a FS bike and then do a downhill test! Guess that won't happen. And why did he wear the sunglasses before the race.. that's not so cool :) xoxo
***** Hey That would be a good one perhaps have to wait until the end of the season to see if Nino will be up for that one?? Thanks for your comment, Marc
+Global Mountain Bike Network Yes please! Would be very interesting to see something like that. Similar to Gee Atherton vs. David Knight video a few years back. It answered a lot questions.
Good video but some of you need to chill out a bit... Its a bit of fun to highlight the speed that top level xc racers ride at, and to show that marc was only 1-3 secs slower on the dh sections than an uber pro who is in peak condition. Its not bashing dh or xc, its just about riding bikes. Fast. X
Ofcourse, marc would win in DH race, but the main concern here is to what Marc Said during the last Episode, "Why XC are slow on Downhill" Now he knows why
Dude... You don't feel bad for this.... You were on a hardtail..... Not fair comparison at all! And he is world no. 1....no shame in losing to the best. And BTW I miss you on the videos... A lot!
Now do a vid on a DH track with both riders on DH bikes.
Colin Hawkins Mark would win hands down. Not a surprise that an XC racer would be faster on an XC course than a DH racer. And an DH racer would be faster than an XC racer on a DH course. But I think what they were getting at is that the XC racer was faster on the descending sections of the XC course than the DH racer.
+William Keys But you can't say that he was faster because of his superior skills. His condition is trained for particullary this type of exercise so he was not tired at all, while DH rider was almoust dead on the top :P . Its interesting how good the XC racer would be with this kind of preperation on enduro racing competition.
Fun fact, Nino Shurter does prefer to ride long travel bikes in his free time.
Colin Hawkins You're trying to prove that downhillers are best.
no matter what... on any bike, any track... Nino will beat you hard! He's a real super-champion!
Can you guys get Claudio Caluori on this show? He is awesome and hilarious.
This has to happen...
My vote too
Nikola Ristovic I Agree
I agree
this was cool, kudos to Nino for participating too. If I'm not mistaken Nino has a lot of experience with downhill too. I think he did it when he was younger or his dad was a coach or something to that affect. I'll say this, from WC races I've watched online, its clear that Nino can handle a bike.
We're all taking this a little too seriously, this was fun and interesting!
Nino was riding a full suspension bike which definitely helped him out during the descends
Jouber Corlaiti C. Nascimento That hardtail was probably a few pounds lighter though and was a rocket on the climbs though, but I wonder the time of both of them on descents with dual suspension, I think being within a second or 2 to the #1 XC downhill guy on a wafter thin tread tire equipped super light weight bike is pretty good (btw dude was riding on Flats! So Downhill!)
He wasn't on flats he was wer paring clips
Jouber Corlaiti C. Nascimento doubt it made any difference at all the descents didn't look technical
***** Heard of Froomey yet?.. I'm not British, but let's not make this into a race discussion, OK? ;)
***** Merely the fact that you were pointing at Brits. He is one. I would not be so sure about doping, since you brought it up: if Quintana had made that break on the TdF, would you accuse him?..
And if everyone's doping (which often seems that way, unfortunately), why would it be relevant re the opinion of British DH riders?..
I have a new found respect for XC racers. I'd hate to descend on a bike with an inverted stem longer than 60mm, and a seatpost up like that.
Its not that bad, I rode the amateur downhill course at US nationals on a bike exactly like Marc's in this video. Albeit it was a kinda weak dh course
Ruben Williams In my town most people ride very technical enduroish trails on hardtails, in the last enduro event a XC guy riding a 29er hardtail was the second best time overall and other guys on hardtails competed and placed well... my bike is a 29er hartail with an inverted stem and only 100mm of travel and I do better on downhills than dudes on full suspension bikes, its about not being dependant on the bike, Im planning on getting a full suspension bike very soon tho
larry david Yes whilst I agree for the most part not to depend on your bike. There is another saying in Mountain Biking and that's "Don't let your bike be thing that's holding you back"
Everyone should ride HT before FS though first, if they haven't already. Selecting line choices and just general handling is very much best used on a hardtail, and then once you feel ready for the next step and the commitment of FS then make the switch.
By that logic, we should all start on 700c fixed-gear road bikes, for ultimate handing and line-picking skills.
Utter nonsense. Each bike has a purpose, it does not have to be a direct progression.
Unthinkable a few years back, it’s now increasingly common to see dropped posts on some pro XC bikes.
I think we need to let marc do a race he is guaranteed to win to make him feel better. Maybe GMBN VS GCN Annual downhill champs?
Always confuses me. I was expecting the edurance cyclist but always forget there is a second Beaumont that does MTB stuff.
Well done Marc, no shame in being 2:30 from Nino! Shame you weren't on like for like bikes.. Maybe both on a trail bike to level the playing field. Or as others have said standing start like a gravity enduro, Neil could of had a go too!
Chris Rice Hey Chris, It was a cool test unreal how fast Nino was. Yeah that would be cool hopefully we can set that up perhaps at the end of the season, thanks for your comment, Marc
Hey guys, I really like these videos. Definitely the strength of this channel is that you have the right ratio of casual / professional about the videos. The content is fun and actually useful but you don't feel bored after 30 seconds keep it up!
Confusing that the DH rider was on a hard tail and vice versa? why didn't they both do it on a carbon road bike for a level playing field?
hats off to Marc for not shying away from competition outside his comfort zone. I'll always respect a guy losing doing his best. when something looks easy from afar, it rarely is. great channel keep up the good work
this is almost a hardtail vs full suspension video, please next time dont do that.
Zelicanth yeah I dont get it either, I want to see how they do it with a pro XC rider who also do DH and do the DH stuff with his XC...
Vanadium That's fair ONLY if the DH rider has to ride up the hills with his DH gear and DH bike.
thechosendude both use same kind of bikes for the whole track.They must do it both with the XC and with the fully. And both riders should be familiar with the bikes. Anything else is just nonsense. And it should be a technical DH. And ofc one rider is specialized with DH and the other in XC.
The only scientific thing who you can maybe say is interesting that the 26" is still the fastest on descents followed by 29" and then the 27,5" and at the ascents the 29er followed by 26" and 27,5". I dunno why 27,5 was that bad.
Vanadium Even if they were on same bikes, it does not matter. It's a closed circuit track. There is equal climbing as there is to downhill. The disparity between time and gap of climbing always outweighs the disparity of descending, since the speed and time margins of climbing between XCers vs DHers is higher than that of descending from XCers and DHers.
There's no way Marc would ever have a faster lap on a closed circuit XC track against Nino - it's impossible unless Nino wrecks. Maybe he could have faster DH sections, if he paced himself to be prepared for them, but it would more than likely INCREASE his overall laptime by having to slow the climbs (again, due to the irregular ratio).
thechosendude and that's why I talk about a track who got a absolute technical DH section who is even not easy for most fully riders. It is clear that you do more time uphill then downhill but with a technical single trail integration ? Huh who knows. Also you see what bike can go faster DH then haha...
They make a good point here honestly. It's harder to go full speed downhill when you're already knackered from climbing up the hill in the first place. XC is more like road cycling in that conserving energy is an important part of the races. You can't just count on "sprinting" the entire race or you'll burn out in no time.
Please can u do a video about trail building because it would benefit everyone
Luke Wright it's not hard just be creative it's just takes Soo long!!
Well Nino had a better bike, and it was full sus vs hardtail, also Nino got his bike fitted to him and he rides it all the time, did mark had his bike fitted, and also how many time did he used it before??
MRGW Hey it was my first time on the Scott Scale 700 ace little bike though. Thanks for your comment, Marc
When I raced XC, there were a number of us that were also alpine ski racers and we were pretty damn fast on the descents. We didn’t get to run many dedicated downhills, so our XC races included a lot of intense descents. For not having full suspension, we were pretty damn fast. Mind you, it was the 90s and bike tech wasn’t as advanced, but considering what we had to ride, we weren’t slow.
This is a great channel guys, can't believe I hadn't come across it sooner!!
nino works very hard to get where he is, doing some unbelievable gym workouts in addition to training on the bike. i imagine that even on a pure downhill ride, nino would put out a very respectable result.
This is by far my favorite GMBN video.
When you hit 100,000 subscribers you should do a presenters special race! I'd love to see who's actually the fastest
Harry Jenkins No race needed. I am. Neil
Prove it Neil. Pics / vid or it ain't true! ;)
Global Mountain Bike Network That's fighting talk Neil. A race is needed, enduro bikes on an enduro style track ;)
***** That has been talked about. It would be funny! Neil
Harry Jenkins Global Mountain Bike Network I'd love to see you guys race it out on the old Bronco Bikes they had at Thorpe Park back in the old days ;)
Please GMBN do a video on Marc's progress and inside knowledge on the DH. Watching this video made me miss the guy.
we all know nino would still be faster, full suspension or not...
Felipe Pono yeah, no more silly excuses from thia butt hurt people.
i know im four years late, but having 100mm of rear suspension would easily shave at least 2-3 seconds off of his time.
@@chucko4415 The big bike difference was surprising.
I think you guys should do another where you ONLY do the downhill bits. Since the gap was as small as it was when Marc was tired, I'd imagine he has a point about the XC guys' downhill skills.
Massive props to the cross-country racers though!
Do a Nino Schurter vs. Remy Metailler video haha
Great video guys!!! Props to Marc Beaumont for giving it all, its hard to compete to a full xc racer, the stamina on those guys is superhuman.
watched this a few times over the years, just because marc deals with his loss so well..
Best video you've ever done. I thought your downhill vs xc video was balls as you had clearly not raced xc at a truly elite level. You are slower on descents for two reasons, fixed seat and most importantly fatigue, massive fatigue. Racers usually try desperately to gain any kind of tiny rest possible on the descents while also moving rapidly. Basically, it means no rest. If you push hard on the descents while racing xc, you crash. Ask Nino.
Ketzal Sterling Hey Ketzal, I have done a couple of XC races in my time, I could not recover and bring my HR down at any point of the lap, and also trying to be aggressive like I am on a trail bike is difficult on the little hard tail.It was a great test and Nino was really accommodating to us on a race weekend. Thanks for your comment, Marc
Yo Marc. Being within 2 minutes of Nino was very impressive. More of these battle videos please, great fun. Clearly you're fitter than you let on. Have a ponder on the segment idea I posted. Mountain bike performance vs price battle. I'm betting the bike makes almost zero difference...
You did great Marc! I was cheering for you :)
Don't understand why Mark couldn't race with his own bike or one similar...
unidentifiedbomb Ever tried riding a DH bike uphill? That would not have been pretty. :)
I agree...isn't Marc currently on a Canyon Strive CF? Climbs pretty well and absolutely rips down!!
+Alex E Pretty well ist not enough in XC against Nino Schurter ;-). But it was impressive and i would like to see a DH competition. But that won't happen because Nino will not do that as long as he races for world cup. I would like to see the Downhill Time on the XC Tracks with a DH Bike and a fresh and rested Marc ;-). Just to see whats possible there.
I agree with you . I believe that however there was a disproportion, they took the strongest mountain bike endurance athlete in the world, with a descent, not very technical, I think he got very little tired in DH, he was able to express his skills also in DH. it was a nice video. i think down hill and xc are two different sports. nino with his athletic qualities could also run in road cycling at an elite level of course. It would be nice to see a race of nino, in DH, with a DH bike, to make a real comparison. Marco Aurelio Fontana, for example, bronze medal at the London Olympics in XC, competed in the Italian DH elite championship, he finished 28th
first of all, great video.. you found out the hard way, what I was thinking before you tried this...its easy to say for DH rider, that XC riders are slow on downhills.. but try that at max heart beats.and imagine riding like this for hour and half, up and down at nearly top speedwell you did found out, so all cool :)
Now do Marc Beaumont vs Nino Schurter on a downhill track...
Marc would just leave nino in the dust. Kind of why they did it on an XC track. 😁
Nino has raced DH before and his dad was on the National DH team and I'm pretty sure he was too for awhile (not 100 percent) but anyway he's a strong descender so I would like to see Marc and Nino on a DH track to see how that would play out
So if Marc gets beaten by Nino in xc by a small time but what are the results on a DH trail
The point of this video is Marc have said once or twice XC racers are too slow on downhills, so they wanted to compare an experienced DH racer like Marc in an XC race and see if such statement was really true.
1st of all it was Marc's fault. He was curious why XC are slow at Downhill, Now there goes his answer.
He got owned by Nino
Amazing video guys..enjoyed it much..but how if nino runs dh bike with marc on a dh track?how would it be..
a xc bike don't feel as well as a downhill bike on descend
Good old times... amazing how much has changed in 4 years
AWESOME video, Global Mountain Bike Network. Would be interesting to see how Nino does on a world cup DH course with the bike to match.
I've found that there are people that just "get" descending better than most. I raced XC for a long time, did fairly well, and feel I was average at descending. When I ride with others, most people, I'm just faster descending than they are. I've done it so much and I just tune in. When I've ridden with my cousin, a pro DH racer and XC racer, he just leaves me behind with no effort, like he's waiting for his mom to catch up. I know others who just ride faster downhill and take better lines more easily, and I'm not bad at it. I seems like its almost a different type of human who is a really good descender.
Go to Italy in Massa Vecchia where Ninos brother has a downhill track and where he puts Nino in the second place every time^^
Do a video on how to whip
1tomdlee Just look at Olly Wilkins' video
Great Video !
Would like to see them racing on an enduro stage
You should do Nino vs Marc on a DH course to see how Nino's pure DH skills measure up. I'm curious how XC pros DH-only skills compare. No doubt theyre just fast all around, but it'd be fun to see how they do head to head in the DH realm.
Zach Shencopp
nino obviously admitted Marc was better at decent, if you see previous video, marc said why XC are slow at Dh, now marc using XC bike, realizes how dificult it is to ride on a xc bike on decent.
You did fine Mark. Nino is arguably the strongest man riding a bike today. The guys a successful road pro as well. A good video would be to throw Nino and Aaron Gwin on DH rigs and time them on a World Cup DH track. I bet Nino would only be slightly slower.
honestly, good idea but they need to ride the same bike to really compare between them. Experienced xc guy on full suspension vs first time riding that hardtail is like compare apple to orange. Looking forward for a better part 2
I've got a segment idea for you. I want to see a massive bike price performance comparison. Field of experienced racers to learners riding super cheap to MEGA expensive bikes. Timed race laps on a mixed circuit. Up, down and flat. I'm betting that no one bike is fastest and that difference is basically zero. It will be all rider.
the high seat post had to be a big change for him lol.
What a shitty comparison, jesus... Let's take a pro XC rider that is familiar with the track and bike and compare him with a DH rider on an unfamiliar bike and track. Next time give Marc a DH bike and do timed runs on an actual DH track. Nino on his XC and Marc on a DH rig. It's obvious who would be better then.
Vazquez12able You seem upset.
***** Lots of pro use a hardtail.
swans2k7 And you seem annoying.
Vazquez12able Sounds like you missed the point. The reason people assume XC racers are "slow" downhill is because they're already riding with a super elevated heart rate before they even drop into the downhill, whereas DH racers come out of the start gate at resting HR.
Exactly why what they did was pointless. It's obvious that Marc would be more tired and therefore slower than Nino in the descent.
From 4:56 to 5:06 in this video you will actually witness Neil kill Marc's soul and the facial expressions on Marc's face are that of pure life contemplating. #IoncesawNeilkillamanin10seconds
To only be 3 minuets slower than Nino on world cup XC course is still quite impressive. It makes some interesting points though and is a good advert for XC racing. They should do Greg Minnar Vs Liam Killeen next time.
How did line choices compare between the two through the lap?
Well done sir. It would be neat to see yourself and Nino on a purist downhill track to compare times; chains off so his fitness doesn't play such a vital roll. As you said, by the time you reached the down grade you were pretty gassed, arms are tired, etc.
I thought the difference will be bigger but then I realized there were not big climbs and the track was short. Anyways, 2,5min from Schurter for the first try is not bad at all.
2.5 for one lap...but you have to be able to maintain it for 8 laps, which is where training comes into play. Even if he could've done a superhuman effort and maintained that 2.5 minute disparity, he would've been pulled from the track by halfway point (lap four) because of the 20% lapped riders rule.
thechosendude I know that but it's still not bad comparing to one of the world's bests in my opinion. I would have guessed at least three minutes difference.
It would be cool to see Nino on a DH track.
+Global Mountain Bike Network Marc this was a fantastic video thanks for doing this and having a candid and honest outcome to it. The overlaps with GCN and GMBN are helping to bring down the gap that certain webpage (named after a color) has worked so overwhelming hard to divide the sport. What you've demonstrated that most of that group fails to understand when you redline your heart rate on climb making the downhill excessively technical put the riders more at risk then does to challenge them. From my prospective them demanding XC races look like downhill course is like road racers demanding slope style or DJ transitions/landing have rock gardens so it looks like Mt biking. No would take that opinion even remotely serious.
Let me think.... BikeRadar? No... MBR? No... Ahhh, Pinkbike! Got it....
Something that hasn't properly been put to the test is 'How far can you push a hardtail?' It's all very well comparing an xc hardtail and a downhill bike on the same xc loop, or in this case comparing a dh and xc riders skills, but I want to see a dropper post on an xc hardtail and see how far a dh rider can push it before the trail becomes impossible without a full sus bike, then do that same run on a full sus bike to see how big the benefits are.
+Global Mountain Bike Network - end of season why dont you get Nino up to a challenge of a downhill race against Marc? I know he is capable on skis, road bikes, moto cross etc but never seen him on a DH track.
Given how depressed Mark looked at the end maybe you should get a Neil Vs Mark presenters XC or enduro race going. Give him a chance to get some pride back
Hello, GMBN!
What`s the best way to improve cardio?
Do I push it the heart rate over the limit for a while and rest for a while, push it over the limit all the time or maintain bellow recomended max heart rate?
Thank you!
Ricardo
kadupf Hey Ricardo, My best advise would be to do short sharp efforts within your trail or xc rides, this way you can still enjoy riding but perhaps not notice so much your efforts.Good luck. Marc
Weird thing is how can u compare Scott full suspension xc bike with a Hardtail Scott with just front running fox while Nino using front and back DT swiss suspension
Marc wasn't wearing spandex, so that right there is probably worth a couple of seconds LOL
MatadorCE Thanks Matador, perhaps I will wear Lycra next time. Cheers Marc
De Nino isch ebe scho e Maschine! 🇨🇭
Downhill speed? MTB ERW is growing up. "In wheel" suspension for major impacts, morphing cushion layer for prescribed tread block.
Anti bounce, high frequency...Millisecond adjustment to the surface. US 9,004,120 B2 Vacuum pressure...Linear Treads?
+EnergyReturnWheel Does any of that make any sense, or you just copied random pieces from a whitepaper on nut design?
ERW is the real deal. You may see ERW
in 2016 Olympic competition. Rolling on never flat composite hoops vs balloons.
EnergyReturnWheel Don't get me wrong, I know what it is and it exists (and I'm bloody hyped for when it hits regular market!).
I was pulling your leg because your first post was basically a bunch of buzzwords. Now, your second post was actually 2 entire sentences, so we have some progress here :)
Anyway, cheers and take it easy ;)
+Oskar Elek we get signal. release all zig!
This year we have fallen victim of the industry's salmon ladder. So much time wasted. We will be a no show 2016 Brazil...Dude.
What 3/4 tights is Tituoan wearing? Just over the knee length is perfect. Also, they appear to have small knee pads in them.
I have my doubts I would even make it around that track! :P Certainly that jump would have me faceplant....
Dropper post on each bike would of been a better challenge
I think one of the reasons Marc was slower was because he got tired, and he was on a hardtail he wasn't used to. You could've also done an Enduro race style of lap on the descents to compare.
What bikes do you guys ride
Eyeballing my XC ride right now....need to crank out 50k today :)
U done great man!
Jawsome, I love how Marc is clearly tempted by the XC side. But for a fair race, how about challenging the GCN prodigy, Simon Richardson.
jakonovski Hey Jakonovski, I do relish a challenge and this was no different, How cool to race Nino Schurter at his own game awesome.. Cheers Marc
Only watching both bikes used by Marc and Nino, we knew that Nino was going to be the winner... what a shameful comparison. If you do it, do it with the same bikes: not a Hard tail Marc, and a double suspension Nino. It´s ridiculous.
***** Hey Ausias, Are you saying that the best xc riders in the World should all ride the same bike? It would be a little boring don't you think? The majority of the field race on hardtails and also a mixture between 27.5 and 29 inch wheels.Thanks for you comment. Marc
I don't mean that...but if you are going to do something special like a test of a descend to show which rider is the best, you should provide them the same things.this is like test who is the fastest biker of motogp, and you give Rossi his yamaha, and you give Lorenzo a scooter. It's stupid.
+Global Mountain Bike Network He is right though, giving them both the same bike would be a fairer test, especially as this is a test on downhills. The full-sus would be quicker than a hardtail if you timed Nino going down the course on both bikes.
+TheOrangutank Nino Schurter was a regular contender in Swiss DH races. He's not slow going downhill.
+Ausias75 I agree, I would have preferred that they both used the same or similar bike. It was interesting to see, however, that Marc was only a second or three off of Nino's pace, downhill, on the hard tail(even considering that Nino would have been recovering from his faster up-hills)! I have a dual and a hard-tail, and I actually prefer the feel of the latter for XC, but the dual is definitely a much smoother ride.
Wait a minute.. you're saying that over 10 to 13 minutes of riding, he was only 1-3 seconds slower WHILE completely exhausted on the downhills?!? I'd say that's amazing!
No one seems to have pointed out that Marc probably was faster on the downhills because those 1,2,3 sec differences look like they would have been more than accounted for in the greater pace Nino carried into the start of the downhill sections...?
Not only best descender, best everything
Was the scott aspect 940 really the best thing you could get Marc?
yea but Nino was on a super light full suspension I want to see both mark and Nino (or other XC pro) race head to head on the same type of bike
The top guys have to be good a descending and ascending. If you are at the top you cannot afford to lose many seconds on either. It's like most things you can be strong in one aspect of something and be good, but to be the best you have to be a strong all round athlete. I becomes especially obvious when you compare some of the more road bike orientated riders further back in the pack to riders like Remy Absalon and Nino Schurter, it is becoming more and more that way in downhill as well. Those who are contently top downhillers tend to be in excellent shape, you just cannot afford to losing seconds because of a lack of fitness or strength at the end of a run
After watching the whole video, i had to watch where Marc saying XC riders are slow on decents lol. appraently not as slow as you were ;)
Kudos for even trying that. Only that far down on Nino on someone else's bike etc, pretty good I would have to say. I'd still be in the car park farting around with the seat post. Nice one! Tim
For me bcz of the seatpost hight mybe need to adjust if where talking about hardtail in downhill
I think Marc should do some xc races . 2;3O min down is not bad :)
Can you make a video about dual slalom
Only 2.5 down! Flippen blimmen heck Marc, that's not too bad. Closet XC racer??
4:58..... His face 😂
BUT;
Was it a 29'er vs 27.5?
Was it bike set-up?
Was it a grown man with a backpack selling bright ideas? lol
Were there dirty goggles involved?
Clips or flats?
Did you forget about your fork lockout?
i think you guys got it all wrong. its about the whos faster on the decents not whos fastest overall, so it should be standi g start start in every one of the downhills, and not a overall lap time.
still respect to nino, he is blistering fast!
Marc should get Scott Spark to practice on, so they would have same bike. I think that there would be probably no difference. Second thing is that that was XC trail not DH from what we could see on the video....
Summary
1. should have the same bikes
2. should have equal practice on them
Regards,
Peter
A question that bothers me: How would i do if i had to ride a saddle that high on decents? You are just not able to use your rinding skills. You can't push corners or suck up bumps. It limits the ability to move on the bike.
Maybe that's the point why Nino is faster. He adapted to his bike and to this track. If the decents were a little bit more technical, he would have lost a lot more time, because his static riding style.
Poor Mark on the hardtail, I think he will be much quicker on the descends with his own bike. Cheer up!
Everyone saying the full suspension makes it easier for nino:
NOBODY CARES
Put Nino on a FS bike and then do a downhill test! Guess that won't happen. And why did he wear the sunglasses before the race.. that's not so cool :) xoxo
Now do a video on a downhill track with both riders on a DH bike.
***** Hey That would be a good one perhaps have to wait until the end of the season to see if Nino will be up for that one?? Thanks for your comment, Marc
+Global Mountain Bike Network
Yes please! Would be very interesting to see something like that. Similar to Gee Atherton vs. David Knight video a few years back. It answered a lot questions.
Good video but some of you need to chill out a bit... Its a bit of fun to highlight the speed that top level xc racers ride at, and to show that marc was only 1-3 secs slower on the dh sections than an uber pro who is in peak condition. Its not bashing dh or xc, its just about riding bikes. Fast. X
I want his sunglasses they are very interesting ones
Nino this us your year at the Olympics. Good luck.
these videos great but music sound too much compare to talking
Ofcourse, marc would win in DH race, but the main concern here is to what Marc Said during the last Episode, "Why XC are slow on Downhill"
Now he knows why
Do rim brakes vs cable disc brakes vs hydraulic disc brakes
This isn't fair Ninos bike has 650b wheels and it is a full suspension bike
Marc should have been able to pick any pick he wanted. And a technical track.
its the olympic champion!!!! NINOOOOOOOO
Google User MY NAMES NINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KITCHEN NIGHTMARES FTW
Dude... You don't feel bad for this.... You were on a hardtail..... Not fair comparison at all! And he is world no. 1....no shame in losing to the best. And BTW I miss you on the videos... A lot!
Do again with a xc rider on a dh rig!! ;)
Downhill riders would win on their own track
Same with XC