Anduin Is A Crybaby Who Should Man Up & Other Fun Stories... War Within Cinematic Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- World of Warcraft the War Within begins the new Worldsoul Saga, and this is the cinematic trailer. It features Anduin and Thrall hearing the voice of Azeroth and meeting at Sargeras's Sword in Silithus, where Anduin must come to terms with the doubts, fears and trauma that has gripped him since the end of Shadowlands.
Join Taliesin for a deep-dive cinematic analysis of the War Within cinemtaic, going over all the things you may have missed
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I think it’s also worth mentioning that Anduin says, “Not after what I’ve seen. Not after what I’ve done,” which echoes Saurfang’s “What I’ve seen? What I’ve done?” in Old Soldier.
Nice, I was going to mention the same thing!
I was going to point this out as well. I noticed it right away as Old Soldier is possible my favorite comimetic.
The difference is that saurfang was going to finish it. Death by glorious combat. Not hiding and crying until someone helps him out 🥺
well no.... saurfang had better excuse as demon blood only made him very easily manipulated and everything which happebed on draenor it was only logical from pov of orc draenai were at fault while during first and second wars they were desperate to find a new home as their was dying. while anduin QQ that jailer mindcontrolled him heck by that logic what sylvanas did as a banshee under ner'zhuls mind control sylvanas would have same reason qq but she never did. Ps anduin is pussy and always have being and wish garroshed kill him during the last true warchief or the horde.
@@kroolini3678 The exact cinematic you are referring to then immediately points out that Saurfang was making the cowardly choice. Anduin is out searching for answers alone because he doesn't think anyone can help him or maybe that he doesn't deserve it - Saurfang was ready to give up. The fact that he was walking into danger was not in and of itself brave or glorious (again, the cinematic literally says "there will be no glory today") if for him that was the easy way out.
For me the "I trust you" means so much for Anduin because he lost control of himself.
He scared he will loose control again and hurt others.
Thrall telling him he trusts him gives that control back to him makes him understand that no one blames him
I absolutely LOVE that not only did Thrall show his trust by pressing himself to the point of the sword, but even more- he stopped it's trembling with his own body. So "I trust you," AND "You can lean on me," but in a way that was both tangible and unspoken. Beautiful visual storytelling.
And he sucks. XD
I think it's easy to look at him saying "I trust you" as unnecessary from a filmmaking standpoint, because the shot before shows just that. But, from a storytelling and character point of view, Anduin needed to HEAR it as well, to have actual confirmation of what Thrall is thinking at that moment because Anduin is so closed off and guarded. Boy has many walls up at the moment and is on high alert.
I agree with that. Part of the look of surprise is because Anduin doesn't trust himself, and I think part of why he's been hiding away is he's internalized that to "no one else can trust me either". So it's a bit of a shock to his way of thinking. I really like how the sword stabilization is reinforced by the music, too. There's a sort of vibrating intensity that starts to build and is abruptly cut off with a solid thump when Thrall steadies the sword.
The allegory to abuse survival *the really bad kind* is so excruciatingly clear that this cinematic is probably one of the best i've ever seen FOR AN MMO LET ALONE in a very very long time.
I don't even play WoW i just follow the story and the story of the people like tali who play and love the game. This cinematic was phenomenal
Blizzard would know what abuse looks like after all….
@@pmc1727 oh fuck off, none of the people behind this cinematic are abusers
Strange, the Maw didn't trigger PTSD for me, but Bastion did!
I wanted to say thank you. As a man who was emotionally, mentally, and occasionally physically abused by a former partner, your commentary on the feeling of "if I was stronger, could I have resisted this" nearly brought me to tears. It's such an accurate representation of what I think about on a near daily basis. Luckily, I have found a woman who treats me the way a partner should, but the scars will always remain.
While I don’t directly relate, I definitely sympathize with you. I see in this cinematic that anduin is a representation of what a lot of guys go through as much as women and doesn’t get talked about enough.
I'm no shrink, nor have experienced bad abuse, but I would hazard a guess that "stength" is not just physical, and the fact you are clearly still here would indicate that you WERE strong enough ❤
Strongest soy man
It's amusing to me that Tali had so much to say about Anduin digging his sword into the ground without bringing up that he's looking at a giant sword in the ground while doing it
What sword?
#ThatSword
Spot on! That particular frame of Anduin grinding the tip of his sword in the sand is - to me - also suggestive of his thought process. "Right, so there's a giant sword that was stabbed into the planet. I, too, have a sword. Should I use it to stab someone, as well? Am I a killer now?" Also, if Anduin already suspects that the visions come from within Azeroth, he's probably contemplating "am I fighting for or against whoever is calling? Is this just another trap to ensnate me?"
came here to say this too
The thing I loved about Anduin in this cinematic is that although he's in pain, although he's traumatized, and although he doesn't trust himself or his light, he still says "of course I will join you." Like, it wasn't ever in question. He just had to feel some feelings first.
No matter what, Anduin will always help his friends and do what's right.
But I would fully expect him to NOT be solid. Trauma like that......breaks you. A part of you is broken, no matter how you try to to fix it - there is no going back to how you were.
Yeah, he's definitely not okay yet, and that whole process will probably take the whole of The War Within at the Very least. And him saying "of course I will join you" feels like something he got from Varian. He might not have been a great father for a while, but Varian was constantly trying to be a good man, which Anduin had seen in places like the Siege of Ogrimmar. He might not be a king in his eyes, but with a little nudge he's still doing what a king must do, even if he'd rather not.
@kymmico not everyone can heal on their own, but when something is happening, even the most broken people will "try" to do what's right before breaking again
He basically tried to fight off the trust. "Don't trust me", "I have no Light", "I'm not the same". That's why the trust was so meaningful to him, but he was always intending to help
He has PTSD. This was the best on-screen representation of it I've ever seen. It sits in you, gnawing, hurting... and when it gets triggered, it comes to the surface and you lash out..
People who say he's a bitch have never dealt with this kind of trauma and have no idea what he's going through.
My little brother is a former Marine. He saw some real guano action in the 1980s that he STILL has trouble with at times. I've seen that with him, held him through a few. And he's tough, no crybaby at all (you can't be a Marine and be a crybaby). The moment Anduin opened his eyes after Azeroth said his name, I started to tear up. That is the 1000 yard stare they talk about. And after he broke, tears. The fact that Thrall put himself into "danger" (it wasn't but...) and told Anduin he trusted him, that pulled him back into himself (a bit fast but...they only had so much time in that cinematic). I thought, like you, it's the best I've seen.
There are many characters who had far worse things happen to them. You don’t see them bitching around
@@Xalocin That just means they're either emotionless or badly written.
@@Lewa500 Need a future to complain about.
Go ask triton if he cried when he was frozen or did he just blitz the Lich King
The "trust" moment seems to be a direct callback to the moment that Anduin killed the Archon. He was specifically trusted to approach her, and (from his viewpoint) he betrayed that trust. So for Thrall to literally put himself on the point of that same sword, it had to evoke the moment of his betrayal.
Speaking as someone who has PTSD, people don't understand the mental scars because they don't physically see them. Post traumatic stress physically damages certain receptors in your brain, everything feels like your fault, the guilt is overwhelming, and when you go into the full blown flashback you're reminded of that pain and it feels all too real. A lot of time our fight or flight mode kicks in and that's why Anduin gets aggressive, and defensive. The fact that people are asking "why does he feel bad?" Or "what did he do that was so bad?" And don't understand how hard that is is truly staggering, and it's also why I feel like there needs to be more awareness for those who struggle from this awful, debilitating, and almost enslaving illness.
The parallel to certain types of abuse survivors with loss of bodily autonomy is especially striking, knowing that an element of trauma that some must deal with is that they may have involuntarily physically responded. Which calls back to Anduin's conversation with Sylvanas about how some part of him enjoyed it.
I love how Anduin has become this vehicle for peering into the universe of Warcraft. He's this middle area between a legacy character and a new character.
Two things:
"War Within" also can reference the internal struggle that Anduin is going through. Fighting against his trauma to be himself.
And second, i really like Thralls grey hair streaking through. It really gives him the same mentor feel that Saurfang had with him (and Zappy Boy).
This cinematic is fantastic in showing the deep emotional hardship these two characters have been through, and many folks who naysay against it just aren't mature enough to appreciate it.
AS a guy with PTSD, The Blizzard team hit so many points in this cinematic that I could 100% recognize. I've seen his face when he said "I have no light". That panic in his face is so accurate. It's not even fear, its a primal fight or flight response, and hes still figuring out what he has the mental energy to do. It moved me and my other mates that have been through the same stuff. Well done cinematic team
Who cares? We want it cold and rough, not emotional and weak.
@@maelictyrsune 👍
@@maelictyrsunego back to your Pokemon cards
@@maelictyrsuneAre you trying to say that PTSD isn't cold and rough? Lmao.
@@drudle storylines based on a political message instead of a story are plain and empty. Are you really interested in emotional and sugary cutscenes in WoW?
Talking about survivor's guilt around 34:30, it's one of those weird things we do to ourselves. Because Anduin managed to break free of the Jailor's control at the end he'll always feel like he should have been able to at the beginning. So often we see our escape from abuse as evidence that we could have escaped earlier. Instead of seeing it as a victory we see it as just an end of a lot of failure. It's like the PTSD thing of seeing only what we survived, not that we survived.
Cool but we want all of old Warcraft back, not this sensitive and childish nonsense.
@@maelictyrsuneClassic is right there, go play it. If you think mature storytelling is childish nonsense idk what to tell you other than to grow up.
@@maelictyrsuneBro really said that this is childish and not the old days of killing evil baddies lmao
@maelictyrsune go join the military, go into a war zone and then tell us that it's still childish, because I bet that you would break after what you have seen
@@deannovak8077 why do you think I have not witnessed horrendous things? It is a strength of a character, not just a mere experience alone. Some people are weak and tend to break easily. Some people are stronger to bear uneventful events, and leave their worries to themselves.
Never thought I would write this, and especially not in the context of a game but...
I am a PTSD survivor and I think the sequence of emotions performed by Anduin were pretty accurate. My experience did involve what could be described as "domination" and I can certainly empathise with what was portrayed, even 30 years after the events
1) The reaction to the touch/help is something that is more likely to be expressed violently in your youth (as Anduin is) but is actually internalised as you get better at masking.
- But internalizing these emotions cause anxiety and depression, IRL
- He is both angry and sorrowful and he has, importantly, taken on the entire accountability for these events that were outside of his control
- He also, deeply, does''t feel worthy of any help or assistance
2) His look of upset and sorrow straight after he drew the sword resonated as, during those rare moments when I have lashed out, the next immediate feeling is shame, sorrow and apologetic-ness
3) When he declared "I'm not that person anymore" he is intensely distraught by his own perceived failure, magnified by his core belief that he was destined to be "perfect."
4) When he says, "I have no light" he is disgusted, both with himself for losing the connection to the light but also that the light abandoning him, making him feel extremely hurt and wrathful
5) When he says "Not after what I have seen, not after what I've done"
- He is disgusted with himself, it was hard for him to even admit what he did initially, but he is also staunchly penitent and holds himself fully accountable
- Then he almost breaks down when he actually re-lives those memories as he was effectively a helpless bystander as they happened
6) The "I trust you" line from Thrall is a wonderful touch as it gives Anduin the opportunity to be aware that you can start the journey to recovery at any time.
- Unfortunately in life, these opportunities for awareness can be fleeting and are hamstrung by one's own lack of self-belief or self-worth
- But, not wanting to spoil the moment, it was nice for Anduin to accept Thrall's assertion that essentially said "He was worth of forgiveness" as this is what Anduin truly, does not believe
- Finished off nicely by him taking his hand to stand after they were both briefly overwhelmed by THE CURRENT crisis, and not the one he keeps reliving in his mind>
Peace
PS. If anyone ever want to chat just reach out, I will reply.
I dobt need to talk, but wanted to tell you that Ihope you are all right and thank you for your insight.
I'm a military veteran and I relate to all of this. I'm really annoyed that people think you have to have fought in a war to end up with PTSD, you don't and your experience is definitely PTSD. Keep going comrade!
You're a good person! Bless you!
as a veteran the way they portray his face is too real
Definitely hits. Hard.
It looks insanely realistic for cgi
@@ramonandrajo6348 You don't care so much you decided to comment on it.
@@ramonandrajo6348That's rich, you've been leaving pissy comments on every reply in this video.
I'd bet like how they did it in BFA they did a full face scan for reference. Its really neat @@k9tirion927
Anduin was handled perfectly. Seething with guilt over his own perceived weakness. Not melodramatic but recluse, away in the desert. He's not a drama-queen, he's genuinely struggling with himself. There's so many ways Blizzard could have botched this but they threaded the needle.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Why do you care so much that you keep leaving dismissive comments everywhere?
@@nehriim3748 Because it does matter to me; that is the difference. ;)
@@ramonandrajo6348 Interesting, why exactly does it matter to you that WoW has PTSD representation?
@@nehriim3748 "representation" Hhaahhahahahahahahahahhahaha
@@ramonandrajo6348 It was a genuine question. What is funny about it?
I’m not a PTSD survivor, but I know what it’s like to have the world on your shoulders and to constantly feel the weight of expectation and progeny, and this shit hits me so hard… I feel for this man on a level that I didn’t think wow could get me to… well done.
Cryduin.
@@maelictyrsune that’s… dumb.
@@DarthFr0gg yeah, political messages in WoW are indeed dumb.
@@maelictyrsune PTSD isnt political. its uncomfortable, but realistic character building. all the people saying anduin is fragile for acting the way he does are starting to sound like the fragile ones.
@@baronfuath5872 PTSD it is not political, but that is not what I'm saying. You would know it if you read my comments instead of blindly presenting your opinions.
one more reason why I personaly love Thrall being in this cinematic is for how he described it: 'like a voice from a dream'. His own story began with Mediv's voice in a dream and started him on a path that turned out to be a path of saving both the world at large and his own people. So his line in this cinematic is very evocative of W3. He, once again is given a sign that now he knows is not to be ignored, he sort of walked this path already which in my opinion makes him the person everyone would turn to for guidance. Ofc Jaina was also part of that story but she always was a familiy figure to Anduin, Thrall being the new one steps up to this role in a way. AND i like to think that Jaina was the one who teleported Thrall to Silithus, he ain't no mage after all ;)
I feel like it's implied that Jaina was the one that teleported Thrall to Anduin's location. Like you said, Thrall's not a mage and it makes sense that Jaina would help Thrall get to Anduin since she's like an aunt to the Little Lion.
Or he took a flight point 😂
Anduin has been my favorite character since mop and you have no idea how good it feels to finally hear someone who actually knows his lore talk about this cinamatic thank you Tali
Agreed.
I love that Thrall stepping up to the tip of Anduin's blade relieved some of the burden, and I love how you put it, how the trust he showed is the support he needs. And I love that Thrall and the Planeteers have that for him.
Thank you Tali for saying the quiet thing out loud. I've been screaming about this since day one of the cinematic when reactions started pouring out. Ofc toxic guys are calling Anduin a crybaby, they literally can't relate, and to be honest the expression on Anduin's face when he hears the literal call to arms from the planet is not sadness to me it shows me how completely done with this shit he is. He's so hollow and he can't be bothered to care. Like he's sat there he's heard it before and he's just like...just go away, get someone else to fight your battles, but despite that hollow feeling when Thrall talks to him his immediate reaction is to accept the duty anyway. He may not want to, but he's shouldering it because he knows deep down he should, so everyone needs to just leave him alone about having a moment of weakness in private with someone who might actually understand.
The *absolute* heartbreak in Thrall's eyes when Anduin raises his sword against him gets me crying every time I see this. Thrall hates seeing this young man suffering. A young man that he cares deeply for. And it really hits me.
As a person who has had to deal with PTSD (I am not now or have ever been a military service member, just to be clear at the start) and the FND condition afterwards from a decade of pretending I didn't have PTSD, I see these little details as more important to me than the Azeroth jump scare. Anduin is already facing the Sword of Sargeras, while holding his father's sword. The most important figure in his life and a constant reminder in his hand that the King of Stormwind has a duty that he can't begin to comprehend on what to do or how to do anything that would even matter. He's been a priest under Velen, a warrior backed by Genn Greymane, a death knight in service to the Jailer of the Damned and he doesn't have enough energy or desire or focus to heal a broken nose, a split eyebrow, burns on his face. He's this is the face of someone who is twenty-five in this cinematic? And through all of his physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional pain...he heard someone call for help...and he came anyway. He doesn't think there's anything that can be done, he doesn't think there's anything he can do. And he was preparing himself to go and do it alone while his own soul is screaming at him to put himself somewhere safe to rest and let others do the job, because in his heart, anyone else would be better. Thrall doesn't tell him to stop being self-hating, doesn't tell him he's wrong to feel the way he feels, he lets him know that Anduin was there for him in similar circumstances and he would be there for Anduin now. I've seen people who seem contained, or simmering in anger, that lash out at the slightest touch of a loved one. We think we're cursed and anyone close to us will be dragged into that. But how much Thrall's re-establishing physical contact literally at the end of a blade making Anduin that he would always be as close as Anduin allows...it's very evocative and metaphorical to my own and so many others experiences.
Thank you, I really love your reply.
I like the perpendicular similarities between this cinematic and Old Soldier.
Old soldier is about the internal struggle of an old man giving up and being brought back to reality by a sort of “son figure”
Where this one is about the struggle of a young man who’s given up, and is brought back by an older father figure
As a woman with PTSD I instantly related to Anduin in this cinematic, it was an amazing rendition of how little things like that touch which can seem so innocent can trigger violent flashes of something that happened. I think its probably super hard to understand why his character is in this place if you have never experience that sort of trauma yourself.
I think it really just needs some empathy and common sense, look back at what he went through, not as a war hardened and life experienced veteran like saurfang but as a 20~ year old young guy with massive weights of expectations on his shoulders varian left behind.
No one in that position just shrugs it off, this cinematic is goated.
Anduin has chronic pain too canonically. That always felt nice to see ( not for him obviously ) since I have chronic pain. Dudes fucking going THRU IT by the time we see him in that new cinematic.
Having grown up around people with PTSD, I was really feeling for Anduin. That some are calling him a crybaby makes me think they've never been around anyone who's got PTSD.
Agree, @gifttanz I thought they handled this very well...
@@MSinistrari My little brother was a Marine and did and saw some serious guano in the 1980s. He's had a VERY hard time with PTSD. I've been called to come talk him down at 3:a.m. and came into a dark apartment with no electricity. I was calling out to him, that it was me and I was looking for him. I got shoved into a corner and a knife shoved up against my neck, shakingly. I just kept talking, quietly and soothingly to get him to see it was me and not someone trying to kill him.
I cried with this cinematic, I knew exactly what was going on, from the time we first see Anduin's eyes--that fabled "thousand yard stare" that PTSD sufferers get. Anduin's been my favorite character since I first saw him when playing way back when. I love the theme, it's my ringtone on my phone. And he, and Thrall, have some of the best stories in the game.
The writers, artists, animators, and actors all did a seriously fantastic job on this cinematic.
I love the part where Thrall says he trusts Anduin! As much as Tali's point here is so spot on, for me it resonates in the fact that Anduin doesn't trust himself anymore, he believes he has no light, he's not sure what is him and what is the jailer and that makes so much sense after what he's been through so just that reassurance from thrall that despite everything he still trusts him must have meant everything to Anduin!
The one part I didn't hear you bring up with his epilogue conversation with Sylvanas. He says it wasn't just like being in the back seat or watching a movie. He still felt everything that was going on. He mentions how it felt good being so powerful....and that's another big part of it, it messes with your head like that.
The trauma Anduin went through even before shadowlands then through shadowlands is horrendous. He could deal with prior trauma like most people can during the good times. Then that trauma compounded by the domination of the jailer and months of torture it broke him. I’ve seen broken men many times. I’ve been nearly there myself and the artist captured this so well it was triggering for me. Amazing job. The not after what I’ve seen or done kinda cliche but it is so true. The amount of death that he has seen at such a young age changes you compounded with the other things he is very broken.
I worked in a US Army trauma care center for troops with PTSD for nearly 3 years.
Anduin is very obviously displaying the symptoms and behaviors of the disorder, and I've seen plenty of troops react in similar ways.
Calling him a "crybaby" or a "pussy bitch" is just genuinely insulting to ANYONE who has the disorder, and those are some of the worst takes I've ever seen in any video game. Do your research before you comment, people. You have no idea how much this affects millions of people.
That being said, I would like Blizzard to do a more in-depth analysis on what exactly Anduin went through under Zovaal's control. We got a lot of dialogue hinting at it, but 90% of it was never seen by the players.
There's a difference between irl and a video game character. Leave that irl shit out and write him more like his father.
You aren’t doing a disservice to shit. It’s a video game, not real life, and no one wants to see Anduin being a crybaby. People need to stop pretending like video games and real life are the same thing, it’s fantasy, embrace it and stop wallowing in your own doom.
@@ThyFleshConsumedyou being a bitch doesnt mean we can't have good things, man up bitch real adults are making things
And that's why the majority of "fans" are not writers. Make him like his father. Shitty fanfiction is what that'd be
I don’t play WoW (I play XIV) but I absolutely loved this trailer. If even someone like me, who has very limited knowledge about the lore, can resonate with the pain Anduin is experiencing, then you know it’s been done well. Beautiful graphics, wonderful voice acting, and great storytelling. And hearing the analysis really added depth and nuance to the scenes that just make me appreciate the trailer even more.
So excited for you guys, can’t wait to see how the story being brought to you unfolds! :D
That was such a kind thing to say. It is evocative of the good things I hear about the FF14 community, thank you.
IMO this is the best cinematic they’ve ever made. First one that’s made me truly tear up. It made me realise how much I love this world, its characters, and how they’re developing. I love your analysis.
Another cinematic about crying and talking. No action, it’s all tell, no show. There is one scene, 2 characters, nothing else. This is all they do now. Whine about feelings because these people think game design is their therapy session
lmao you can't be serious
I understand, hoping that more bigger things will come. But this was a great way to start the saga.@@kroolini3678
@@kroolini3678 I think you need therapy
I was (not so) patiently waiting for this deep dive. I loved the emotional and mental implications of this cinematic and really wanted to hear your analysis and opinions. Your mention of survivors' guilt and the trauma of loss of bodily autonomy were not things I had thought of yet, but absolutely describe what is occurring in this video. Thank you for another amazing deep dive analysis!
I think the moment when Thrall steps into Anduin’s sword is also paralleling the use that that sword had during shadowlands to stab the archon and to attack his friends. And when Thrall is saying I trust you he is showing that he trusts Anduin to not do what he did when he was dominated. He is showing Anduin that he has his autonomy back and that, with time and help, Anduin will recognize his autonomy more.
It’s important to remember that Varian and Anduins relationship was incredibly complicated up until the moment varian died and one of the most tragic and beautiful stories in legion was that this sort of end of the world moment which led a father and son to the a sort of closesness which they both struggled to find up until that point was ripped away. It reminds me slightly of Harry potter and Serius black where harry finally finds a parental figure only to lose him as well
I felt Thrall's line, "You needed time, we stayed away, but time by itself heals nothing." Was very meta. It's like someone said this to Chris Metzen, about leaving blizzard. His speech at blizzcon about "I realized, I love warcraft, and I love this work." It just shows his return from his hiatus was healing in itself.
No, not really. XD
@@weirdafters4007 you can do something good for yourself AND get paid for it at the same time. LoL
@@ramonandrajo6348 it is just my take on the line. It feels, to me, when he left it was due to internal company B.S. and he made mention of his frustrations but now he's returned to something he loves.
@@superj-man137 And let me tell you that he is going to continue using the w@ke agenda, because it is what Activision/Blizzard wants, so what you say doesn't matter.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Thank you for the reply, but what I said never mattered, it was just my interpretation of Thrall's voice line. It clearly meant more to me when I heard it than it did to you. However it'll be Microsoft-Blizzard and that may make all the difference in the coming expansion.
Honestly seeing Anduin so emaciated, like he hasn't been eating much because of the ptsd is what really got to me
Yeah emaciating male protags is why I play epic fantasy action games
@jelledesmet7086 i mean I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but actually seeing characters struggling with things you relate with is why you watch movies and play video games right? Like you don't feel alone
@@jelledesmet7086Honestly, go play D&D where you can make as many shallow, one-note macho beefcakes you secretly touch yourself to as you want.
@@FLLax11 I can understand why that would be important, but it's not for me. I don't like blade or lotr or john wick because I can relate to the protagonists tbh 😁
@@Xynth25 projection is a fascinating thing, I don't get why you would think your vapid rudeness would apply to what I said.
When Thrall says "like a voice from a dream," it might be an allusion to when Medivh called Thrall to action at the beginning of Warcraft 3. As Medivh came to Thrall in a dream as a mysterious voice -- arguably kickstarting a 'saga' of sorts
We're still going to see Genn Greymane and Turalyon in relation to Anduin and his PTSD. Both have some pretty forceful personality traits and they may decide that, despite the beard and such, he's still a kid to be ruled over and not the ruler.
Someone mentioned that the blue in the world sun thingy is the azurite burning. That makes sense. And, I saw a comment elsewhere that said they could see Magni standing behind them saying, "Ah laddies, don't tell me you dinna ken who that is, it's Azeroth!" and smacking both of them on the back of the head.
Thanks Tali for the good analysis. When I saw the "crybaby" in the title, I was prepared to snarl at you for not understanding (because I've seen those comments too and having a little brother with PTSD, I'm a tad bit touchy about it,) Sorry for jumping to that conclusion.
The last shot of Anduin and Thrall standing infront of the sword also gives me some of those Humans and Orcs vibes. Like Blizzard wants to tell us that the roots are still there, it's just a bit different now as those two badass folks fight side by side now.
Anduin's "FFS" grimace at 14:48 is a peak performance - perfection.
Thank you Taliesin. For noticing that more women can relate to Anduin's trauma and ptsd. Thank you for saying it. I feel a lot of sympathy and this cinematic touched me very deeply.
One little unrelated thing from the analysis that I'm missing: of course it's Thrall who comes to find Anduin. Yes he went through a lot of similar stuff and is in a position to offer that insight to Anduin. But also the very obvious thing: Thrall's a shaman and in touch with the earth!
After seeing the Azeroth giving dragon Aspects power, I guess maybe Anduin will also get another kind of Light power from Azeroth 🤔
I’m actually hoping he reunites with Alonsus Faol and rediscovers his own connection to the light
@@PhrykeI don't think Anduin is going to find his light by going backwards. He will discover it on his journey of redemption and it will come to him when he needs it the most.
@@andrewrenshaw2741 obviously i know, its not that he is on mission to find his light, i also believe he will get light when he needs the most.
But i think maybe, this time, his light source will be different from what Naaru have or maybe more holy light.
Spoilert? Wtf
@@ananyamukherjee6944 Oh good point, maybe he finds the light within .
That's Taliesin. Diving deep into the emotional scars of a game character. He loves these deep dives.
I also perceived the whispering of Anduins name by Azeroth as a further reference to Therenas whispering to Arthas as well before his awakening in the Lichking Cinematic
A lot of people don't understand how bad things like trauma and depression truly are, because they haven't gone though something like that themselves
and of course there is always the ''boys don't cry'' crowd that are absolutely delusional
People who say "boys who cry are just p*ssies" are usually people who really really _need_ a good cry.
Classic, fat clowns behind screen that went through no major shit in life going "soy boy", not even trying to understand the message of moment like this.
Bruv.
Boys do cry. Men shouldn't.
@@georgestaykov5358 that's just delusional imo
@@georgestaykov5358 Said by 17 year old delusional kid that just went through high school thinking he knows shi”t about life.
Seeing people react to Anduin clearly going thru some trauma and basically giving him the man up speech just sucks as someone with trauma and ptsd. I'm glad Blizz is trying to show the consequences of all the things that happened to Anduin in like, how long as it been? Bout 10 years of content for him? Dudes gone through a lot.
Say it louder tbh.
Those screaming "man up" are always the one screaming "what about men's mental health" when women and or lgbt talk about mental health. Lol
I also suffer from PTSD and I don't really want in my fantasy game see reminder of that.
His father has split personalities and lost his wife and was enslaved by the orcs for many years but he wasnt this whiny bitch.
Some people are related to this Anduin in the cinematics because a lot of fucking people getting soft. Now you insult someone in the internet and they cry like a baby whining as if its the end of the world instead of just shrug it off like a man because it is just internet. The more years you go back the much thicker skins people are tbh.
There's also something to be said of Thrall and Varians history in the gladiator pits. In many ways they became brothers. It's also part of Shalamaynes origins
Really liked your comment about the growing light (over the sunrise). Also shows how Anduin may have been there through the previous night for some time.
One thing I haven't seen anyone comment on is the callback to Saurfang's 'what I've seen, what I've done', from old soldier when he is trying to scare zappyboi away on his suicide sneak attack. Anduin is doing the same thing using the same words with the same threat of violence, except this time the receiving party isn't an impressionable young troll but someone who has seen and felt some elements of his journey before, on his own flesh.
This is my favorite cinematic of all time. The emotion and brokeness of anduin is so real. A couple of months ago i was going through some medical issues that basically trapped me in my own body. Seeing the world having to go on, seeing those i love have to struggle to keep going. Its so easy to give in to the darkness, to let go of the hope. This cinimatic has a beautiful symbolism and probably the most human cinematic ever made.
Terron Gregory and his team are incredible with what they do with these cinematics.
I was going to comment how there's someone or an actual order who would be in a better position than Thrall to help Andui but considering we're going to Northrend, I hope we see more of them then, and that they'll be part of Anduin's journey. Talking about the Ebon Blade here. All the Death knight created under the Lich King went through hell. One of the quest in the dk starting area is to kill someone who cared for you. Darion Mongraine story has a few similarity with Anduin's. Both deeply connected to the weapon they inherited from their father.
One thing about Arthas, he was being controlled by Nerzull. I can't remember where, but I do remember reading about his soul being the size of a child and still fighting to hold the scourge at bay.
As for Anduin's being a bitch. Ptsd is a hell you never escape but learn to live alongside it. The fear of falling is always there. The sleepless nights and the pain never goes away. But to live with it, I think a road not unlike the one the Ebon Blade took is the right one. Being part of a group and doing things helps a lot. Spending time alone also helps but too much will make things worse as you get stuck in a circle of thought. Keep fighting until your body can no longer take it and then, you get to rest.
What really got me was Andiun's pause when Thrall offers him his hand to help Andiun stand up. Its another way Thrall shows "I trust you, here is my hand" that Andiun has to take a moment to accept. The point of all this is that ~Andiun does not trust himself.~ People are saying "he left to feel feels" which, okay. But more importantly, he does not trust himself so much that he had to get away from his friends, in fear that he would lose control of himself - again - and hurt them.
Honestly it really did feel like they where setting up Anduin for redemption. He's broken, a shell not just of himself, but his father and a remnant of Arthus. Honestly, I hope they transform him into a proper leader, capped off with him regaining his light as a paladin, or as a fully fledged warrior like his father before him. Meeting halfway with Pally feels like the best choice if I was writing him, but I ain't no writer. However this cinematic feels like half a story, I can't help but compare it to BFA's cinematic. The calm before the storm, but their is no storm? In the end it simply feels like half of what could of been in the truest sense
Always is the possibility that it's not the opening cinematic of the expansion, in the same way that in Legion you got first a teaser at Blizzcon, and then much later the action-packed Broken Shore cinematic that was actually the one.
Anduin's a priest. He's always been at his strongest when he's embraced that, not when he's trying to be what people think he should be or what he thinks his Father was. Paladin does work as him finding a halfway point between who he is and who he thinks people want him to be, but I don't think he needs to take that step. Just settle into his own groove.
It is astounding that so many people don't get why Anduin is in the state he's in. It reminds me of how so many people think Jaina is just some "crazy bch" now and are completely unable to see her as a person or what she's suffered and understand why she may have reached a breaking point. If these characters went through everything they did and were genuinely unfazed by it, they would be freaking sociopaths. I feel like the same people didn't understand why Tony Stark had PTSD in Iron Man 3 and, to me, it makes genuine human empathy seem even more rare than the world already presents.
The part when anduin says " of course I will" is like a, in spite of whatever I'm going through ill be here to help tone to it.
The shot with anduin pointing his sword toward Thrall i thought was a reference to when Sylvanas presented Kingsmourne for the first time to Anduin at the edge of him being dominated. That was the beginning of his trauma. Sylvanas has this exact posr with the same sword and agressiveness.
Yeah and that shot you are talking about was a lich king reference
I really feel for Anduin he's been through so much, I really hope they give him some wins in the near future.
Shame they barley showed any of it
I'm so glad how you discussed why Anduin is traumatized through the angle you did. Seeing Anduin in that flashback made it immediately recognizable what he's going through and the allegory it can represent. While I'm not surprised by the dumbfoundedness of the playerbase's general sentiment to Anduin being so emotive and troubled it's still disappointing. Like how many times do characters in this setting have to demonstrate themes of loss of will and autonomy and how that impacts different people for the idea that these are traumatizing experiences to stick?
I think in rise of the lich king novel. It's worth mentioning Arthas goes through moments of regret. But mostly enjoys the acts he does under the influence
I had a blast chatting during this stream and also Tali made me cry a few times talking about beautiful parenting and positive masculinity. 10/10
13:58 "Too close, a little too close" - The merchant voiced by Robin Williams who is _definitely_ not the Genie of the Lamp from Disney's Aladdin
Been waiting for this video.... Always enjoy Talies cinematic analysis
This video was a perfect breakdown of this cinematic. And to anyone suggesting the inspiration to Anduin's appearance, I would have to vote for his amazing voice actor, Josh Keaton.
Thank you for all the editing! Even if i have watched other videos about this cinematic, i always find your prospective very intriguing and thought-provoking.
10:37 "Hear, feel, think"
Wait wrong game lol
I finally got around watching this video and it is great. The part about Anduin's trauma is amazing.
For me, it is very hard to understand why people think it is so hard to understand Anduin's pain. We have a character that always held himself to very high standards when it comes to being a good person and doing what is right. He was dominated and forced to do all the opposite of what he aspired to, dealing with powers he would never have used voluntarily. All this happened while he could watch himself doing it without being able to stop himself. And he himself said that a part of him felt pleasure out of it - which is something that he probably really felt - ever since DKs were introduced, we knew about the DKs feeling pleasure about inflicting pain and we know now they were under domination magic.
The bit about Sylvanas knowing what it feels like hits the nail. In fact, she never got over it. That trauma was so big, it guided every single action of hers after that.
One thing that you may have missed: I think the I trust you line resonates so deep with Anduin and makes him tear up because it is very clear that he doesn't trust himself anymore and he feels he doesn't deserve anyone's trust. In such circunstances, hearing from the outside that someone trusts you is very powerful - and lets remember it is not just anyone saying it, but Thrall himself, a figure so big on the warcraft universe and that he respects deeply.
I think on the Thrall and Anduin comparison in particular that while *Thrall* had his "I'm not worthy" moment, he left to *live with his family.* His home, wife and two kids. Where is Anduin's home? His family? His castle in Stormwind. His people and comrades who would expect him to lead and inspire them again. And of course just emphasizing the age difference, with us following Anduin from being such a small boy in the throne room, then _all of WoW happens._ A force of hope and peace and will who has had that challenged with every story so far since he was barely knee height to us.
Anduin: Is imprisoned & tortured in the worst part of hell & then gets personally mind controlled by the devil
WoW players: "Lol y he so mad tho?"
i never see the cool stuff between the lines without you, but this time i did notice thrall steady the blade with his chest. neat. thanks for these i love them so much
31:41 Tali, you're 100% spot on here. Your analytical dives into the cinematics are always some of the best things on the internet. But you nailed that point so perfectly, it gave me shivers.
10:06 I'm not so sure "It's the reason the Titans bother with us" is quite accurate as "it's the _only_ reason the Titans care about Azeroth at all."
The Titans do not care about the beings living ON Azeroth, which are really just a means to an end to them. They only care about her world-soul and life on Azeroth only exists from their perspective to protect it. At the same time, they seem do very little when it comes to the goal of protecting the world-soul being threatened by malignant, chaotic (fel) and otherwise dissident life forms on Azeroth.
I think this was a truely beautiful cinematic and Anduin and Thrall were emotionally done phenomenally.
I strongly feel like Blizzard is drawing these paralels between Arthas and Anduin because they are setting Anduin up to become what Arthas could have been, had Arthas had better mentor- and companionship during his own trials.
I also feel like this is Thralls moment for redemption as a mentor. A new try at a better 'Garrosh'.
Just my two braincells at work I guess. What do you guys think?
I was actually wondering where the analysis was for this cinematic yesterday, very cool I didn't have to wait long!
I wasn't sure how an analysis of this short cinematic could fill nearly 50 minutes, but the time flew by and I was engaged with the discussion with whole time, nicely done Tali!
I just wanna say I was with you LIVE on twitch and it’s impressive you took that 4 hour analysis and edited it down under an hour. BRAVO
Thank you for your bit about trauma and PTS; it was very sobering. While I wasn't one of the folks thinking Anduin was being a 'cry-baby', I also didn't take it that deep. I merely thought "Damn, dude's been through some $#!t. " Your bit was a stark reminder, I know we're talking 'vidja games' here, but some people live this every day. Thanks for reminding us.
27:40 your words truly brought me to tears. I have witnessed and experienced so many traumas in my life. Even with the traumas that don’t effect me as much, whenever I recall them the thing I focus on is the bad and ugly of it all. I’ve never given myself credit for handling the situation I was in and making it through to the other side. Being at my strongest. It’s a beautiful thing.
I haven’t played WoW in 3 years but I still follow this channel. Thank you T&E for sharing your spectacular insights on such a great story.
Thank you for doing these and uploading them to youtube. I always look forward to them.
Thanks Tali, this was a really good detailed breakdown of the cinematic, some really interesting things there I hadn't thought of.
Such a great video and cinematic analysis! Thank you for breaking it down so perfectly, it made me cry. And I think helped me deal with my actual real life trauma as well.
Watching these cinematic analysis videos always feels like debriefing with a good friend - cracking job as always 👏
26:15 The memory brings him back to it, he is his current self but just by the touch of Thrall is immediately right back there in his mind.
Because of this he immediately feels all the emotions he was feeling at that moment in time, which was right before he screamed & broke the sword after the words from Varok & Varian.
When he snaps back, he does exactly that but also directs it at Thrall. As someone who has PTSD. It is insanely good.
Right before he speaks, his eyes close them open as he snaps back control over his body. His blade starts to shake & tremble as all the adrenaline courses through his body & he is overloaded with emotion.
This is exactly how I react. I will never allow any human to have control over me, I will give my body to my instinct alternate personality before that happens. He'd rather fight to the end before submitting. No human, will ever have control over me. Ever.
I live for your cinematic analyses Tali. You always have such an amazing insight into symbolism and storytelling, things i would never notice on my own, watching these videos gives me a new way to appreciate WoW cinematics on any subsequent rewatch. First time watching any cinematic for me, I just think "damn, that was cool", but you help me see *why* it was cool, and the thought and care that was put into them. Thank you.
The line "Time by itself heals nothing" applies to so many things in life. Extremely powerful and insightful words by the writer who came up with that.
I bet Taliesin was the king of book reports in school. These are always amazing and feel like a college professor level book report if the book was a videogame we all spent 10 to 20 years of our lives playing and following.
I have to say Tali your analysis are always precious to me. They are so interesting to watch and listen to. I learn so much with them. Thank you !
30:55 this. Thank you. It's less about specifically what he did or in what amount and more about how what was done to him.
I've been waiting for this since I first saw the cinematic. "Ooo can't wait for Tali to do a deep dive on this"
"Thrall is very much embracing it." Don't forget: Thrall is a shaman, so the most obvious way for him to listen to Azeroth, is by touching the ground. Many believe at this point Azeroth is more than a titan, but at the very least she's tied to the elements. That's why she also blessed Vyranoth in the Amirdrassil ending.
But what I really wanted to talk about, was Anduin's PTSD- response, from one of my WoW characters' perspective. Eriza Redshield- my human warrior- has been a close friend to Anduin for years, and she's been through a fair share of trauma herself. Most notably, she was tortured by the Legion, and only recovered thanks to her friends, including Anduin. So watching him go through a much worse experience in Shadowlands was also quite traumatic for her. Eriza has seen firsthand what Anduin went through, so she know his pain.
Since we can all assume Jaina was the one who teleported Thrall to Anduin's location, I think Eriza asked Jaina to send her there as well. She arrives just in time to see Anduin snap, and say: "I'M NOT THAT PERSON ANYMORE! I have no Light! Not after what I've seen! Not after what I've done!" Eriza walks slowly towards Anduin.
Eriza: "I know what you've seen. And I know what you've done. I was THERE."
Anduin notices Eriza, but keeps pointing his sword at Thrall.
Thrall: "You are not your past, Anduin." He moves closer to Anduin, so that the tip of Shalamayne touches his harness.
Eriza's tone gets more serious.
Eriza: "Thrall is right. What happened to you is not your fault. I used to blame myself for my misfortune. Do you remember the Dalaran Infirmary? Who helped me move beyond that pain? You did, Anduin." She looks at Anduin, saddened by the state he's in, yet she's hoping her encouragement and Thrall's kindness will reach out to him.
Thrall: "I trust you."
Eriza breaks down into tears, and embraces Anduin.
Eriza: "I trust you too! No matter what you've seen! No matter what you've done! You are my king, and I will love you unconditionally! From the bottom of my heart!"
Anduin starts crying too, lowers Shalamayne, and hugs Eriza with his free arm.
Anduin: "I've missed you, Eriza"
Eriza: "I've missed you too."- Eriza says, and looks up at Anduin, smiling.
Then suddenly, the world soul beckons all three.
Eriza hears the words "Hear me", and falls on her knees, holding her stomach in pain.
Anduin: "They're getting worse." He stands up, and addresses both Thrall and Eriza.
Anduin: "Look. Whatever's coming, I'll stand with you. Of course I will. But we were drawn here by the voice. Who is it Thrall? Who's calling out to us?"
Anduin assumes Thrall knows more about it than Eriza, since he's the World Shaman, and he doesn't know about Eriza's involvement with the World Soul.
Thrall: "I'm not sure yet." He looks towards the Sword of Sargeras.
Thrall: "But that sword was aimed at someone."
Eriza: "And I think I know whom."
I wanted to add a bit to your comments about Thrall showing and declaring trust in Anduin. I think the dialogue is also a callback to the last SL cutscene we see of Anduin when he's talking to Sylvanas in the Maw, and he asks her how his people can trust him even he doesn't trust himself. I think Thrall saying this was a first step to Anduin trusting himself again.
It really bugs me how no one has pointed out that Anduin has essentially walked path of the Deathknight which explains a lot on top of Anduin's Trauma. Deathknights were made to be weapons against the living, to the point that if they didn't kill or hurt something, they would lose control and take it out on anything and anyone around them. That is why you see them on the frontlines of big skirmishes mostly.
If we take a few more steps back, people would notice that Anduin has experienced what it was like to be other classes before as well. He was trained to be a warrior enough to at least hold his own with a weapon, snuck back into Ironforge with the SI:7 as a rogue, apprenticed under one of the most powerful Priests being Prophet Velen to strengthen his connection to the light, fought in the 4th war as essentially a Paladin.
Each of these experiences, while giving off a lot of Jack of all trades master of none vibes, managed to make him even more powerful through their wisdom. If Anduin is to walk the road to recovery, and perhaps make himself stronger, I really think we should get to see Anduin interacting with and learning from the remaining classes. Perhaps by doing so not only will strengthen the bond with the people of Azeroth, but the wisdom they have the teach will shape him into becoming the incredible badass many believe he can be.
I would never get those more subtle bits of storytelling "wordplay" like that Thrall has "walked the path Anduin is on" or that thing about how he's lit emphasizing how his sword is no longer emitting light. When every frame of these costs so much to make it's no wonder every single shot is so carefully calculated.
In the survivor's guilt portion you mention anduin questioning if he enjoyed what he did while dominated on some level and somewhere in a shadowlands cutscene anduin literally talks about how he enjoyed the destruction he caused on some deeper level and how distraught he is finding that side of him
I love all your vids, but the cinematic analysis ones are my absolute favourite. Was so excited to see this one pop up :)
What makes it make all the more sense is that the Jailer's domination is described less as being puppeted and more as being compelled. Kind of like the Combine soldiers in Half Life 2 -- where they all have an implant that gives them a shot of dopamine whenever they comply with orders. Everything he did, he at least had SOME part in because he wasn't totally controlled. And what's worse, he ENJOYED it. It was a twisted reward from the Jailer for doing his bidding and maybe wasn't actually his real enjoyment (like the dopamine implant), but whether or not he knows that - that is bound to cause an identity crisis. On top of the Light abandoning him, something he thought he would always be able to call upon, it's like his entire sense of self is gone.
Thank you for spreading awareness of/insight about PTSD and survivors of abuse/our mental challenges. I imagine here, Anduin is not thinking of how strong he was to escape the jailer's influence, he is instead beating himself up about not having done it earlier, before he was used as a weapon against Bastion.
Anduins little chuckle at Thrall reappearing in the cinematic was 100% the reaction everyone had because we knew with Metzen returning it was only a matter of time before the one true Warchief returned to the spotlight
Saurfang says "We don't get to hide" to Thrall in the Safe Haven cinematic from BFA. He also gets Thrall to repeat it back to him before his Mak'gora in Reckoning.