How Italy Got Slovenia's Coastline
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- If you look at a map of Slovenia's coastline, it kind of looks like Italy went way out of its way just to get the city of Trieste, but that's sort of obscuring the whole story, which I reckon should take about 7-8 minutes to explain in the form of an educational RUclips video
MUSIC:
"Tribes of Fortune" by Trailer Worx
"Across the Ocean" by Bonnie Grace
"A King's Ransom" by Bonnie Grace
"Canada" by Cushy
"Dusty Wheels" by Kikoru
"Setting Sails" by Deskant
(All via EpidemicSound)
📖 SOURCES:
corvinus.nl/20...
Reill, Dominique Kirchner. Nationalists Who Feared the Nation: Adriatic Multi-Nationalism in Habsburg Dalmatia, Trieste, and Venice. Stanford University Press, 2012.
Petacco, Arrigo, and Konrad Eisenbichler. A Tragedy Revealed: The Story of the Italian Population of Istria, Dalmatia, and Venezia Giulia, 1943-1956. University of Toronto Press, 2020. pp. 88-90
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Had no idea Trieste was so important and with such rich history, thank you.
Why
Venice - Veneti = Slavic.
@@AntoineELismysalvation You're not serious.
As a Slovenian i think hes just redarded@@italiamia
Watch your mouth boi.@@Wulfwiga
I know a family that are Slovenian's dukes, had a castle and everything before the Nazis burnt it down. Then Italy took over the land and since they are Slovenian royalty, the Italian government doesn't recognize them. They are still really wealthy though and moved to Latin America.
That's because Italy is a republic....
@@Real_MrDevonly post WWII, so very recently. Italy took Trieste and the area around a long time before it was a republic
@@Rynewulf Not that much - between 1922 and 1943 Trieste was part of the Kingdom of Italy; 1954 to today, Italian Republic. Prior to 1922, it was part of Austria (in various incarnations) for over 500 years.
@@dlevi67 oh i meant Italy took Trieste a long time before turning republic, not that it had Trieste for a long time. Yeah the Hapsburgs had that area on lockdown for a long long time for that juicy sea trade money
Slovene here, WHO ARE THEY??? I didn't know they still existed!!
'How Italy got Slovenia's coastline' Let me start by going back 3000 years...
Thank you! I hate when vids do this.
Thanks for saving me the 6 remaining minutes of my time, the moment I heard that we're going back by 3 millennia
Putin carlson interview in a nutshell
How? Ww1 they came to "HELP" in real they claim it!!! Its was sooo!!! Alies my assss 😂
@@ratkomilutinovic829 You slovenes and Croats had fun under Austria oppressing italians and being privileged? Then you got fvcked. Trieste is Italian, there is nothing Slovennian about it.
Essentially, in order for Istria to become Croatian as it is today, Slovenians had to relinquish their claim to Trieste and the surrounding villages (that had Slovenian ethnic majority). While a good portion of the Croatian Istria was given to Yugoslavia after WW2 and prior to the Trieste issue, this did play a role in the way Trieste region was distributed. The culmination of these decisions led to the creation of an unnatural border between Slovenia and Italy that clearly indicates the compromise in Italian favor on Slovenian side. While we were all part of Yugoslavia, this might have seemed less problematic as some compromise had to be made for the common good. However, years later, when Yugoslavia disintegrated, it became evident that Slovenians ended up with the shorter end of the stick...
The majority of Istria (which was ethnically even less Croatian than the broader Trieste region was Slovenian) and a good chunk of the Yugoslav portion of the "Free Territory of Trieste" now falls under Croatian control. Yet, Croats do not acknowledge our sacrifice and refuse to grant us a fairer share of the "shared" bay, despite the favorable decision towards Slovenia made by the Permanent Court of Arbitration, an international body.
Essentially, we signed away our rights to Trieste and the surrounding coast, while Croatia got to obtain all of Istria, yet they continue to contest every inch of the border in this region. While it is understandable that every country strives for the best possible outcome for itself, given the sacrifice and the facts mentioned, as well as a sense of pure fairness considering the current distribution of the natural resources (coastline) in the region, parting with the small piece of water we are disputing over should be the least they could do. But I get it, as we would probably be just as greedy today... unfortunately though, we were not back then when it mattered.
Slovenians need to blame partly on their toothless government.. they never vetoed Croatian accession to the EU, Eurozone and Schengen Area, while keeping the arbitrage problem hanging unsolved.. I guess every politicians have their holiday homes in Istra and Dalmatia wanted faster journey there on the weekends..
Sorry, this is me ranting, I’m not Slovenian citizen but have been living here in Slovenia.
Trieste was never a majority Slovenian city christ, it was always an Italian (or romance) majority city with a strong Slovenian community. Come on, it is simply false, other than illogic.
@@giuseppeanoardi3973 Please read again Josip, I meant to say that the surrounding villages and countryside had a Slovenian majority, and we lost the Slovenian areas due to their being on the route to the city or close to it. As the winners of WWII, unlike Italy, we could've taken the city of Trieste, the villages, and the surrounding coastal towns (including the non coastal town further away, Gorizia) as "reparations."
The entire Trieste area, including the city and rural areas, had around 80,000 Slavs, of which some 60,000 were of Slovenian ethnicity, 12,000 German, 38,000 "other," and 120,000 Italian. However, since Yugoslavia had already taken Istria by then, they had to leave Trieste to Italy to appease the West, on which we relied for support against Stalin (as well as for other means of support).
So if Yugoslavia didn't take Istria (the majority of which is now Croatian), Slovenians (back then the Yugoslavs) would likely have gotten not only Pirano, Capodistria, Isola, etc., but also Trieste, Gorizia, and the surrounding villages and countryside. Instead, as Yugoslavs, we had to compromise, as the West would never agree for a communist regime to get the biggest port in the region, on top of the entire Istria. We were the victims of circumstances, but then again, had we taken Trieste and Gorizia, the Italian civilians living there would have been the victims. Injustice one way or the other was bound to happen. You cannot divide such an ethnically diverse area fairly, as there is always going to be someone hurt by the division and left on the "wrong" side of the border. But hey, maybe next time don't partake in, let alone lose, the world war if you don't wish to lose land as a direct result.
Would you say this is a fair assessment? We can disagree on some very specific details, but I believe this is a generally correct statement.
@@zigalisjak Trieste would have never been given to Yugoslavia: a good part of the partisans fighting the fascists during WW2 also fought during ww1, and Trieste played a big role in it. Ceding it would have meant throwing the area in another civil war, it was simply out of the question. Furthermore, having been under Austrian rule or being associated with it before, and having Austria lost the war too and for a bit worse reasons there was no way it would go anywhere else than Italy.
The problem with the mess in Istria was that the Allies should have handled it better: handing over a couple more fascists to be judged instead of keeping them as guard dogs against communism, wich in the end led to fascist bombings in Italy and to a complete blindness to what happened when Tito died before it was too late.
The one thing that makes me smile a bit is that you think the Yugoslavs had a united will and could have acted as one entity. There was Tito's iron grasp, and then the rest, wich ended how we all know, if it has truly ended at all.
@@giuseppeanoardi3973 I am not sure about Trieste and the surrounding countryside, whether there truly was no way it could become Yugoslav/Slovene, based on the history surrounding it, so I will not vehemently disagree with you. I might be biased, but while Trieste itself was a complex issue, I do believe at least Opicina, Valle, Sgonico, Duino-Aurisina, Monrupino, Muggia, etc., and even Gorizia could've easily become Slovenian due to their ethnic composition and/or natural position. As could probably Tarvisio, Resia, Savogna, Gradisca, San Floriano, Doberdo, etc., in the other border regions. I am using their Italian names out of mutual respect and in order to conduct a civil conversation, but we probably both know that many of these names were of Slavic/Slovenian origin and had considerable, if not outright majority, Slovenian presence before WWII. Couple that with losing WWII and the damage caused, it would not be unheard of.
As far as your last statement goes, I do believe there was a time, especially in the decades after WWII, when the majority of Yugoslavs truly felt united. But just like anywhere in the world (just look at the USA today, for example), politicians and those with ulterior motives and personal gain will do anything to divide and conquer.
Americans seem to be on the brink of a civil war, and it is my understanding that Italian unity (especially between the north and the south of the country) is also falling apart as we speak. So before you make a joke out of the Yugoslav situation, think of how the Venetian Republic used to attack Trieste, as well as how various Italian republics used to fight each other (which is even worse).
Italian unity is a relatively new concept, it might hold, but it also might not. Additionally, Italian fascism seems to be on the rise again (as it is in many other places in Europe), and who knows what might happen once/if the economic situation in Italy further deteriorates.
While our situation was largely fueled by outside influences who wanted to break up a strong Yugoslavia, domestic enemies that were left behind and eventually came out of hiding once Tito died, as well as greedy, slimy elements looking to gain power and privatize the wealth for their personal gain, and the two Churches (three main religions) who played on the religious and cultural differences among our people, this does not mean Yugoslavia was an entirely flawed project to begin with. If anything, it’s human nature that is flawed. It only takes a few bad apples, and this could certainly happen elsewhere in the world as well (as it has and does), even today, but especially in ethnically diverse regions once people stop respecting each other (be it cultural, political, or otherwise).
Anyway, good luck... Hopefully, there will be no more war, although we will gladly take back "our" villages, especially the coastal ones, if you choose to do so voluntarily. We'd also like to keep our current coast while at it too... 😶😉
Just out of curiosity, was your family of Italian partisan origin?
Nice! But you kind of missed to explain the ethnic side of the story. This is a zone that has been ethnically mixed since the early middle ages, with the seaside towns being romance speaking and the hinterland being slavic speaking. Trieste itself had approximately 30% slovenes, and 60% italians (plus a few others, albanians, armenians, serbs, greeks, germans etc.) in 1910. The main issue of the 1954 partition is that the coast that was mainly slovene-speaking for centuries (north of Trieste), was given to Italy, while the current slovene coast has been traditionally italian/venetian-speaking. From here the issues of the italian exodus and of both current national minorities (italian in slovenia, and slovene in italy) derive.
@user-mo9oe8ew6j 150 years ago the percentage of Italians was even higher than in 1910. Slovenes were never a majority in the city of Trieste. Today only a few thousands people know Slovene, in Trieste
@@slobodailismrt_ Trst was in 1910 the bigest Slovenian city. 60 000 Slovenians lived in the cty. Pesentage of Slovenians were rising until the end of WW1. And what more census in AH empire only ask for so-called 'working language' who knows how many Italian speaking were Slovenians.
Yeah, today only few left after all that has happened in 20th century. If things were diferent, Trieste would become Slovene majority city.
@@amw62 Again, census never ask for nationality, it only ask for 'working language'.
Trst itself was not majority Slovenian, but all surandings was.
It's not propaganda, it's a historical fact. If you like or not.
@@Kintabl Very convenient to count in the city census villages kilometres away. Slovenes were always a minority in the region, and a majority just in the villages. As was the case in Istria. That is history: the rest is histroical propaganda by teh Austrians and panslavic crap from the late '800, when the Hapsburg were trying to silence proItalian movements by enflaming the slavic element. That ended particularly well in Sarajevo and led to WW1 and the disastrous following years in Venezia Giulia.
@@giuseppeanoardi3973 The fact is that Trst had the largest number of Slovenian speking than any other town with Slovenian majority has inhabitans in the year 1910.
There were many more ethnic Slovenians in Trst, the Austro-Hungarian census did not ask about nationality or first language, but only what ''work-language'' do you speak.
I don't know if you know, but Slovenian language was not valued in Austria-Hungary, it was even despised. So no wonder there was not many Slovenian speaking people in cities like Trst or any other major town.
i was beginning to think none of the history/geography channels i follow were ever going to talk about the important history of my city, also never thought it would be done in such a well done video
you mean "how tito failed to give slovenia all Trieste coastline"
Heey :) Stalin and alia forses in eu ordert that even Gorica become itali and Portorož, then TITO resistet Stalin and EU and we Got only half .. I hope I dodnt mess up :) ..good day :)
Finally someone who knows History
Actually exactly because of Titos Communism we weren't given Trieste.. Churchill wanted Trieste to go to Slovenia, but Tito ruined that plan since he was part of the eastern block until then...
@@panzerbanz7296you got Kopar, that was ethnically Italian.
@@calogerohuygens4430 true Koper was ethnically Italian but Trieste and coastline north of Trieste was ethnically more Slovenian than Italian.
Thanks for translating in Korean we really appreciate it 😅😅😅...
I have always wondered …
Cool
Is it true about eating dogs?
@@Gigi-xr3qsYeah, is it true about westerners eating cows and pigs and not feeling any guilt?
@@basilbrush9075 Do they taste good? Does a particular type of dog taste better - like a Rottweiler vs. a Chihuahua? Is there a best dog flavor wise that is preferred? Like I would think a fatter type of dog would be preferred- like a fat Golden Retriever. Don't get me wrong- I am down with eating dogs. I think a cat might also be tasty, but not as much meat.
Slovenia mentioned
Wtf is heterosexuality?!?!
I once wanted to go swimming there, but then I shifted to the 2nd gear and appeared in Croatia. But I saw people standing in line there. 1 person get out of the sea, one get in. There is no space for 2 people in Slovenian sea.
Slovenia is Serbian
@@DaniG.German883 Slovenia is Croatian and Croatia is Serbia
Femboy republic
It is a Slovenian name ... one of the biggest populations of Slovene 90% at the time .... that was settled before the time of Rome came to Alps and north Adriatic sea
Wow it’s pretty cool to see this channel take a look at the Trieste border issue, we did a video on this topic last year!
Ripoff!
Cool
Blame the "experts" who made artificial borders after WW1. In other words the french and english politicians...
I grew up in the 70’s and the 80’s in Yugoslavia and I appreciated the fact that Trieste was Italian because for us Trieste was a major shopping city. That’s where we went to buy clothes, jeans, shoes, household goods, cosmetics and luxury food items.
If Trieste was in Yugoslavia you would still buy quality goods. Just in any other Italian city nearby.
I think it has to do with it's no tax policy as free port still today.
@@RarnikSM You think? How so?
@@salamanders6969 I mean Trieste would still have important sea port but I suppose good products from the west would be less accessible considering Trieste being on the east side of iron curtain. So in order for people from Yugoslavia to get quality goods they would just travel to a diffrent Italian city.
@@RarnikSM Yugoslavia had a Communist government, but it was NOT behind the Iron Curtain. It was a non-aligned country, whose people were free to travel anywhere they wanted. Yugoslavia broke with the Soviet bloc in 1948.
Post-World War I borders didn't make sense - Italy annexed some areas that had been German or Slavic since forever, but was denied Dalmatia (at least, Dalmatia's coastal cities, the interior was Croatian-speaking) and Fiume. That said, the whole region was so mixed, someone would've found themselves on the "wrong" side of the border anyway, and the locals, whatever their ethnic background, seemed to want things to stay as they were; ideally, the whole region should've been made up of autonomous provinces, with Slovenian being official in Italy-held lands and Italian being official in Yugoslavia-held lands, but European countries didn't work this way, back then. :P
Actually Italian is the co-official language in slovene coastal towns (these areas are officially bilingual). However the actual implementation of bilingualism is sometimes lacking.
@@Menelvagorothar I know, it's the same on the other side of the border, but that was not the case in the early 20th century - if, due to shifting borders, your ethnic group became a minority, you were fucked. It's only after World War II that governments tried to move away from cultural or ethnic genocide.
After ww1 Italians were only a majority in western Istrian coast and Zadar and yet they received the entire Istria and Zadar. And Italian is now official in both Slovenian and Croatian parts of Istria,
Western Istria Trieste fiume and Zara had a Italian majority
@@No-ch6fp I wasn't counting Trieste cause its currently Italian, I'm too lazy to check it out but I'll believe you on that one, but not in Rijeka, in Rijeka not even 50% of the population spoke Italian (which was also spoken by Slovenes and Croats), exact numbers of ethnic groups are not known, there is a possibility that Italians were the largest ethnic group but not a majority
We did a day trip there while we were on a trip in Slovenia. It was such a cool experience! Love that city.
Uh oh, the comment section is gonna be interesting. But anyway TRST JE NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAŠ!!iiiii!!!!!
GORICA PA ŠE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TRST JE NAŠ!
@@miskoskace5052 ČAKA KOROTAN ČAKA ŠTAJERSKA ČAKA SINJE JADRANSKO MORJE!
Trst je njihov @@miskoskace5052
Trst celovc gorica naša je pravica
The creation of The Free State of Fiume after the collapse of D'Annunzio's Regency of Carnaro provided some extremely interesting border shenanigans. The League of Nations, Italy, and The Kingdom of Yugoslavia all agreed that Carnaro should be dissolved and its territory re-appointed, but in a strange game of strictly overt diplomatic rapprochment and a millennia long messy history of border redrawings, all the involved parties tried to palm off different sectors of control onto each other, desperately feigning cooperation by throwing poisoned chalices at each other whilst clinging onto parcels of controlled land that became increasingly muddled and divided.
As such, Fiume (Rijeka) became a bizzare game of border hopscotch. National borders would change within the space of hours, cycling through the participating nations in a seemingly random fashion. Residents would go to work in the morning and come home to find a hastily unrolled bale of barbed wire running down the street and their house now in a different country. Exclaves and enclaves would bloom, burst, wither, and disappear depending on how many people were spotted within a given street, or building, or public square at the time of official observations. Long, rambling, crooked isthmuses and panhandles of borders would snake so chaotically through the streets that border checkpoints were set up in churches, homes, offices, etc, because the building's front and back doors were the only place where the borders met in a way that could be crossed by foot traffic. Roads and railways became split over two territories, or made into single nation corridors, meaning train passengers had to alight from one side of the carriage or the other to avoid illegally crossing a border, and omnibusses had to perform U-turns in the street to make sure their passenger could leave the bus on the 'correct' side of the border. A simple journey on foot across Fiume could warrant up to half a dozen border crossings, some of which were manned by officials from far distant countries such as Britain, France, and the US. Shipments of goods sometimes had to go through multiple customs clearances to travel 100yds inland, only to end up right back in the same territory they originally landed in.
In 1924 the Italians and the Yugoslavians signed The Treaty of Rome which awarded Fiume (Rijeka) to Italy, and its sister city of Sušak to Yugoslavia, but for that brief period between D'Annunzio's failed corporatist experiment, and the ratification of The Treaty of Rome, life in Fiume and its surroundings was certainly a confusing and Kafkaesque kind of existence.
But the video is about Trieste 🗿
Italy-Yugoslavia border disputes were something else during the 20th century
@@JmKrokY I know. I thought it was just another interesting example of Jugo-Italian border shenanigans in the area at the time 😅
Fun fact Vladimir Bartol the slovenian author of "Alamut" was born in Trieste
He was born and lived in the part of Trst where I live :)
Remember the Alamut, David Crockett died there fighting Mexicans
@@aleale6277 no the Alamut i mean is the one where the Hashashin started theyr regin of terror in middle east.
I am Italian and I come from Veneto, near Venice, I have always heard about Trieste, I often went to Trieste and my mother told me the story of Sad and Istria and how many Italians who lived there came to live here in Veneto and Friuli to escape from the Yugoslavs, because the Yugoslavs were not so "kind" in treating the Italians after Italy occupied Yogoslavia during fascism, in Trieste there is also a museum that shows the history the refugees who came from Istria. When Italy annexed Trieste shortly after, Yugoslavia placed troops on the border and was about to invade the city.
"Yogoslavia" ☠️
@@JmKrokY ?
Hey, I saw there was a commemoration in Bazovica about two weeks ago regarding the exodus of Italians from these regions and asked myself if you guys have the whole historical knowledge about how the Slovenians living in the Western part of the country were treated during the days of fascism? Slovenian language was forbidden and the fascist government had a plan to exile, execute or naturalize all the Slovenians that lived in this area (my grandparents included) ... we have two museums about that period even in my hometown and you are of course welcome to visit and further explore those dark times in history.
Not Yugoslavs, Croatian Partisans.
A lot of Ustasha switched sides after war and target of killing.
So today you have an ethnically cleansed Croatia.
My Greatgrandma was saved by Italians.
Although Italians helped Serbs of Bosnia, Dalmatia they helped Albanians in their genocide against Serbs in Kosovo, Albania and west Macedonia.
@@ПетарКарпош Yes also the Croatian partisans, by Yugoslavs I meant all the partisans who were of Yugoslavian origins, therefore not just the Serbs
I believe, and you can correct me on this, that the Karst plateau is the origin of the term Karst that has been applied to similar areas around the world.
yes that is that
An overview according to the Austro-Hungarian censuses, including regnicoli:
Demographics of the City of Trieste:
1880: Italians 67,995 (91.2%); Slovenes 2,817 (3.7%)
1900: Italians 116,929 (87.1%); Slovenes 5,017 (3.7%)
1910: Italians 123,654 (76.8%); Slovenes 20,358 (12.6%)
Demographics of Trieste with Hinterland:
1900: Italians 138,524 (77.5%); Slovenes 24,679 (13.8%)
1910: Italians 148,398 (64.6%); Slovenes 56,916 (24.7%)
If the Austro-Hungarian censuses are to be believed, then the statistics clearly reveal a very high rate of Slovene immigration to Trieste in the years before World War I, which is consistent with the Austrian plan to replace the Italian population and Slovenize the city. The ethnic composition of Trieste dramatically changed from 91.2% Italian in 1880 to 76.8% Italian in 1910. The city of Trieste was being intentionally suffocated by a seemingly endless tide of Slavic migrants from the other regions of the Empire, guided by the Austrian government.
is not fair.. you are counting the city, which was italian, and the hinterland that was and still is slovenian.. trieste is not slovenian but the hinterland should be slovenian turning trieste in to a italian exclave
@@StanieleIt's all part of the greater Italia, you don't have a say in the matter, little slovenian.
It is true that Trieste has always had an Italian majority, but your data is incorrect or questionable.
Initially, around 1800, it was estimated that in Trieste there were 30% Slovenes, 30% Italians and 30% speakers of the Trieste language, which was not comprehensible to Italian speakers.
Then a lot of Italians immigrated to Triest and in 1900 they accounted for about 60% (in addition, many other nations moved to Trieste from 1719, for example Czechs, Italians, Germans and many others, and among them the majority were Slovenians, who represented around 60% of all immigrants and came mostly from Goriška and Carniola) the population of the entire municipality and not 77% as you mention (speakers of the Trieste language had assimilated by then). This situation lasted until 1910 when only 50% of the population declared that they spoke Italian as their language of communication. At that time in 1910, 25% of the inhabitants of Trieste reported that they spoke Slovenian as a language of communication. But it is also true that a lot of Slovenians moved to Trieste between 1900 and 1910.
in 1911, they revised the population census from 1910, as many people complained that they were wrongly listed as Italians, and the result showed that there were 50% more Slovenians in Trieste and 60% more in Gorica, this data is used today as the official data for the 1910 census.
This is proof that there was manipulation of the population census by the city authorities who were Italian at the time and wanted to show that there were more Italians in the city than there actually were. However, it is true that these censuses should not be trusted too much because they used the colloquial language as proof of national affiliation, which is problematic because it is a language that can also be used for communication between two different language groups, such as today's English, which I also use it to communicate with you because you don't know Slovenian. Plus, a few years ago, Milan Bufon got access to the Trieste archive and counted the census again, and he found that at that time there were around 40% of Slovenians in the municipality of Trieste. This number may seem high, but if we know that many Slovenians moved to Trieste since 1719, and that they represented almost 100% of the population even before the 18th century in the suburbs and other villages in the municipality and supposedly also represented 30% of the population in the city, it is quite logical that it is so high.
You also said that the Slovenians and Austrians oppressed the Italians in Trieste at that time, but you have no solid evidence for this oppression, since the percentage of Italians actually grew steadily between sinc 1880 to 1910 in the Austrian littoral.
@@silvesterkobal4769 In the Imperial Council of Ministers on November 12, 1866, held under the presidency of Emperor Franz Joseph. The minutes of the meeting reads as follows:
“His Majesty has expressed the precise order that we decisively oppose the influence of the Italian element still present in some Crown lands, and to aim unsparingly and without the slightest compunction at the Germanization or Slavicization - depending on the circumstances - of the areas in question, through a suitable entrustment of posts to political magistrates and teachers, as well as through the influence of the press in South Tyrol, Dalmatia, and the Adriatic Coast.”
The Imperial authorities took care to stir up Slavic nationalism in order to propagate italophobia. An example of this is the work of the Imperial Royal Commissioner in Istria, Ritter von Födransperg. In September 1848 he sent to several Istrian parish priests an article of political propaganda in favour of Slavicizing Istria. Paradoxically, it was written in Italian: indeed, Italian was the language of culture in Julian Venetia and Dalmatia for centuries, next to Latin, so that even the Slavs themselves habitually used it (suffice to say that the newspaper of the Croatian nationalists in Dalmatia was written in Italian and was called “Il Nazionale”!).
The letter from the Commissioner stated:
“Very Reverend Signors,
I thought it well to send you an attached Italian translation of a fundamental article written on the Slavic nationality of Istria, a refutation of the many unfounded, insipid and other passionate articles, with which certain Italians attempt to suppress the Slavic nationality for the benefit of the Italian people.
I don't believe I would be troubling you if I asked you to disseminate this translation and to explain it in Slavic to the parishioners, in order that they may be instructed in their right to nationality so that they may assert themselves against the Italic people who, as guests on Istrian soil, arrogates to itself rights which the Slavs do not have. Hopefully in the near future Slavic Istria will justly obtain the true benefits of its nationality under the glorious banner of our most beloved constitutional Emperor, and be fraternally united to the other German and Slavic provinces, so there will be a loyal and strong support for His ancestral throne.
After taking a copy of said translation, gently push it forward with solicitude, and circulate it in the manner indicated below.
Pinguente, September 24, 1848
Födransperg, Imperial Royal Commissioner.”
@@Caleidus yes, I am aware that he said that, but there were no big changes in the percentage of Italians in the Austrian littoral, which even increased. So, in practice, this order of his was not implemented.
I'm slovenian and i know that Trst is naš🎉
To be correct. Majority were Italians. Second group by number were Slovenians. Third were Croats
Someone call GeoWizard and see if he wants to walk across this part of Italy in a completely straight line
Almost all the coastline was ethnically Italian, especially the west coast of Istria which was practically entirely of Italian culture. Probably we deserved to lose it after what we did in WWII, but still it's a pain to see those places emptied out of the original inhabitants who have created them. Now let's pray for a unite and peaceful European Union, such horrible things should never happen again.
You're right. But one would have to wonder how only an extremely narrow strip of coast (on average only 5 km) was Italian. This is not natural! This belt became Italian in the Middle Ages with the conquests of the Venetian Republic, just like some e.g. Greek islands. Just as they returned under the auspices of Greece, so was the Adriatic coast returned to Croatia and Slovenia.
And the rest is history.
Good title and good video. Italians always hated Slovenians and Croatian with passion. They see us as subhuman, and call us Slavs instead of our national demonym. I'm not saying average Italian thinks that way (hell, most of them probably barely know we exist), but their political establishment sure does, on a national and on a regional level.
I can confirm that's not the case. I do not hate anyone, Slovenians and Croatians included, and i do not know anyone that does, still I am Italian.
@@FVI297Cool
he is talking generally.. i mean the word Slav comes from Slave so..@@FVI297
@@Staniele no that is false, word Slave comes from Slav
That is not true, as Slovenian I can tell that northen Italians ( i do not know if people from south are same) are one of most friendly and culture people in the world.
My gradfather Izidor like to sing
Giovinezza, giovinezza
Primavera di bellezza ...
He got his first new black shirt as figli della lupa.
As always, it's the british or americans
Good video about an area of Italy that not many people know about if they are not from Italy itself or Slovenia. Indeed, Trieste holds a unique place in European history, both in terms of centuries ago and mere decades ago: what happened to it between 1945 and 1954 still constitutes a rather sensitive subject for some Italians. What is not mentioned is that it is a quite important city for Italy as a whole - it is the capital city of the Italian north-eastern region of Friuli-Venezia-Giulia and it has a quite strong economy, based on industries and businesses that have thrived there for centuries, such as shipbuilding, port activities and (guess why) insurances (typically a business that is linked to the city’s naval history). Sadly, not a lot of Italian themselves visit Trieste, exactly because of the geographical location you mentioned at the start of the video: one really needs to “want to go there”, as it is in no way a transit city for any other destinations in the country (it is an obvious privileged transit point if you’re heading to Slovenia or Croatia of course, though).
Cool
For the Slovenians living here or in the surroundings Trst/Trieste is an important center of the local region (called Primorska in slovenian and Venezia Giulia in italian, though the two regions geographically only partially match). Many people from the surrounding area come to work here, or come here for shopping.
@@varthallvarti8823 and it’s great that Schengen opened up everything and now people can hop across the border easily. I was in Gorizia not long ago, for the first time in my life - it was amazing seeing the pictures of the “wall” and being able to walk back and forth to/from Nova Gorica
Not anymore or at least in very minor number because the GDP per Capita in Italy is only slightly higher, for instance I know some intellectuas are going to work from Trieste to Ljubljane because the salary is substantially higher....but yes years,decades ago when the difference was huge a lot of Slovenians and Istrians from Croatia were coming to work in Italy in big numbers but unfortunately Italian economy has decreased a lot , especially after the Tangentopoli case...@@varthallvarti8823
Triest and gorizia provinces should have rightfully been given to slovenia right after ww2, same with south tyrol which should have been given to austria! They are historically slavic and german territories , even today those languages are still spoken there , even alot place names have slavic origins in triest and gorizia and german in south tyrol.
Nahh!!!
South Slavic cope never ceases to amaze me. You are lucky nothing happened in the 90s because the so-called slovenian littoral could have been taken back.
@@Zz_Mike-Hawk_zZ come to primorska and ask anyone that ''this is italian'' hope you like small caves :)
@@Staniele I already did. Did you think I was afraid or something? You managed to wipe out 98%, but there is still a 2% there, waiting.
@@Zz_Mike-Hawk_zZ waiting for what? they have good minority rights, unlike slovenes in italy.
Many buildings in Trieste in the center and next to the church (which is mentioned in the video) were built by Serbian merchants (Gopčević palace, Kurtović, Vukasović, Riznić, Todorović, Vučetić, Kvekić, Vidaković, ect.). Apart from 60 palaces, church and school and valuable treasury and library, the Serbs in Trieste also have their own cemetery, which is protected as a cultural and historical monument of Italy.
The Serbs are good friends of Italy. Unlike other hypocrites from the Balkans...
@@jeancompte5848Who?
@@jeancompte5848namely who?
@@calogerohuygens4430 Use your brain, buddy...
@milosdusic1342 I'm not gonna translate all that, buddy, learn english !
I always wondered that, thank you for explaining history of that weird border!
Nova Lectio channel explains in more details. Especially in regards of Istria, Fiume and Zara. The Italian population in those are was more than 50%. People tend to forget about the “Foibe” and “Esodo Giuliano”.
Just like Italians like to forget the fascist crimes on the Yugoslavian peoples.
people forget about a facist regime and what they did to people for decades...what did you except when people fight back... and foibe arent that huge it was seen it was mostly animals and not that many people
@@saltman4935 foibe are a big thing. The only argument the italians have against slavs. Sad history. But yea. Revenge can hit hard, ask germans
@@SDEESSInteresting historical facts that local Italian faschist in Histria invented methodes to kill political or other national opponents and after shooting them throwed them to one of natural Histrian caves called foiba. That was described in 1926 in local faschist newspaper propaganda in Pula/Pola where Italian faschist threath with this kind of likvidation anybothy who dare to opposed Italian faschist regime.
In my opinion the video title is misleading, because it actually was the other way round: it was Slovenia who got the Italian coastline of Istria after the WWII (Italy was defeated), with the exception of Trieste and Muggia, which remained in Italy.
No, Italy got the Austro-Hungarian coast after WWI. It had been Austrian for 500 years.
@@leblubblab There is no contradiction between what I wrote and you wrote, because I was talking about the aftermath of WWII and you about WWI. And by the way, the current Slovenian coast wasn’t Austrian for 500 years, it was actually Venetian. It belonged to Austria only between 1797 and 1919.
We the Slovenians lay our claim for Trieste down in exchange for a little more Alps which did have a Slovenian majority for - well forever really. The mountains are more our thing anyway...
To be honest, today some valleys of Italy still have Slovenian majorities, in the northeast. A fair exchange would be the Slovenian littoral for these valleys, but you would lose access to the sea!
@@acapocchij1012 1 km² of Slovenian coast for 3 km² of Italian alps.
No. Accept the Balkan mentalitet nd claim it all. Croatia supports you
1920 border, take it or leave it.
@@ivansusec2718 Indeed Croatia is famous for supporting and and all genocides, as we should have expected.
The all-important railway link between Trieste and Vienna was built 1854 to 1857: The final section across the Karst Plateau was built. 12 July 1857: personally I didn't know that Trieste had been a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until relatively recently and that as soon as the railway technology (locomotive power) could cope with the hills; this all-important, unique, (it was the Empire's only port other than the Black Sea) trade link to the West was built regardless of expense. worth a moment with Wikipedia. A great video; Worth a tick and subscribe :)
TRST JE SLOVENIJA 🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮
Dream on😂😂😂
i visited reccently on a backpacking trip, but thank u for enlightening me today!!!!
1 minute in and you keep repeating the question and explain nothing.
hahahahahah
The title is misleading, since Trieste has never been part of Slovenia!
Technically, it was never part of anything really it was always a free city under the Austrians.. it was quite literally called a free Imperial city of Triest.. and technically if you’re going by the kind of dubious claims of the free city of Trieste organisation, Italy, technically doesn’t even own Trieste it’s more like a colony
@@Staniele Slovenia is not a rreal country. Only exist since the 90's. Its a joke.
@@jeancompte5848The only joke here is you. Your dear Benny was killed by Italians themselves, one of the worst and without honor deaths ever with Italians spitting on his mutilated body. How do you feel? Frustrated for sure.
@@jeancompte5848 neither is italy it was the roman empire. stop the nationalistic talk. at one point deocletian who was croatian moved the center of the roman empire to split does it mean the roman empire was croatian at one ponit ? No it doesnt. Please stop the nationalistic tapk
@@tteo484 Italy is an official country since 1861 buddy 😂 and even before that, the Italian city (Venice in particular) states were ruling the entire Adriatic for centuries, long after Rome
If Italy hadn't be so st*p*d as to side with Germany, the entire northern coast would either belong to Italy or be an indipendent country, separated from both Italy and Yugoslavia.
While the area used to be a melting pot, the coast was predominantly romance.
Yes my same idea, apparently let other fight first is such an hard concept to grasp...
To claim it they should have been Fastvenia instead of Slovenia.
Underrated hahaha
@@westrim Italy or Idiotally that is the question?
I was born in Trieste and have lived there for many years. Thanks for this video! (I’m Italian American and live in Tenerife now)
This will shock everyone but... SHOCK with Schengen there is no need for any more border changes since you can freely travel between Slovenia and Italy, or any other EU country, the dream of "reclaiming Istria" or "reclaiming Trst" is really sad... it happened, this is the final border, get over it, a border doesn't change some one's life like it did before.
Absolutely true, but for some reason that idk at times Slovenia still stops you at the border on highways (which causes some queues)
@@sirflasm3456 Slovenian police is controlling the border between Slovenia and Croatia, the one between Italy and Slovenia is controlled by the italian police.
@@varthallvarti8823 true, i didn't make that clear. I don't know the reason though because croatia is schengen as well
@@sirflasm3456 They are now controlling the borders due to the "increase of terroristic treats", since some months. We really didn't miss these controls, thankfully at least between Italy and Slovenia they are bearable.
@@sirflasm3456 This is recent border control due to terrorism threat related to Israel-Palestine conflict. Austria, Germany etc. exercise the same control.
How Slovenia took italian land?
Not even an inch of Italian land was taken.. if you are not counting the very very very tight little women of Italians, right at the coast of Istria
@@StanieleBeing proud about going after defensless women and children ? That fits. But i mean, slovenian right ? that's your only strength 😂
They didn't take the land it was given to them by the allies. They couldn't take it by themselves even if they tried for 300 years...
@@jeancompte5848 Here is example of your intelect as is obviusly that you did not understend funny provocation mentioned Italian right women (Meloni) about Italian right movment wich has roots in neofaschist ideas and their unrealistic nationalistic claimes to territories of neighburing conutries.
@@Staniele Good parody on politics of right wing Italian politician Meloni.😂
I see many proud and loud comments coming frome croatians especially... Don't forget that the allies gave you theses lands, you would never be able to take them from Italy by yourselves. Not then, not now, never. Don't forget that.
Nobody gave us anything. We took it ourselves. Trieste was liberated by 4 Yugoslav Army consisting of majority croatian troups from dalmatia. So thank's for nothing😅
@@ro.stan.4115 Loooool Italy was defeated by the allies when you "took yourselves". You (croatian) make me think of a little chihuawa yapping proudly against a bigger dog... I'm not even Italian and i know they would completely smash you if the occasion presented itself. 😂
@@ro.stan.4115 Keep yapping, little dog😅
@@ro.stan.4115 And yes. They absolutely gave it to you. You could never take it from Italy unless she was defeated by the allies.
How can an entire country (croatia) be so delusional ??
@@jeancompte5848like they smashed Ethiophia and Greece? 😅😅😅
Trieste was NEVER under Slavic domination and most of the coastal towns in Istria were majority italian. The only reason Slavic people over the centuries reached the Adriatic Coast is because they were running away from Ottoman invasion of the Balcans towards Dalmatia which was part of the Republic of Venice and Austria which Trieste was a part of at the time.
He's just projecting.
A classic frustrated short Italian.
Well acuttly citys were itilan but villages were Slavic and all villages hade more than all the citys
After Vienna Congress in 1815 Austo-Ungaric didn't restore the Venetian Republic and stoled his territory, That's a fact.
Trieste was an important point in the travels of my past. I used to watch the ships in the sunset from the Grand canal that is very small.
It was Slovenia (at the time part of Yugoslavia) which got Italy's coastline, not the way you title.
True.
well maybe you should not have been fascist!
@@StanieleWe were and now we are again, officialy ! What are you gonna do about it little slovenian ?
Not true, triest and gorizia provinces were originally south slavic slovenian , even the origins of their names are slavic , among other place names in those regions , you can easily check. Same with south tyrol which is german /austrian and was also unfairly been given to italy! All these slavic and german regions have been abusively annexed by italy after ww2 , it's a proven fact.
@@thedarklord1539 if we talk about what language is spoken in the area, maybe we can agree something, but unfortunately any town on the coastline bears a Slovenian name
I visited Trieste in October.
Did you like it? I think it is an underrated city
@@nicola.innocenti yes
How did Slovenia and Croatia get to keep Italy's coastline, and get to kicked all the Italians away from Istria and Dalmazia..? that's the correct question
By winning the war😅
They didn't. Allies gave it to them. Now, little croatians think they won or something 😅
Thanks to Josip Broz Superstar😁
So Italy should have a *third coast*, the eastern side of the Adriatic? I love Italy, but NO. That side of the Adriatic, from Istria down to Dalmatia, belongs to South Slavs, i.e. Slovenians, Croatians and Montenegrins. The Venetians controlled parts of that coast for a long time, but the majority of people were always Slavs, and Dubrovnik remained independent. It's not true that all Italians were kicked out. There are still Italians in Istria.
@aviadilo Dalmatia belongs to the south slavs, but not Istria.. at least until Fiume
My dad was born in the free territory of Trieste, I’ve been there once most people speak Italian there. Istria was mixed the west coast towns were Italians and the middle and east towns were more Slavic.
Austria ruled a lot of North East Italy but Mostly Italian was spoken there. 3 countries fought for Trieste but prolly because over 90% spoke Italian that’s why it went to Italy
Italy didnt "take slovenias coast" Italy took lands that spoke Italian fron Austria-Hungary, there was no slovenia in that equation, and Slovenia isnt going to get Trieste unless the Italians choose to leave, which they won't.
Really? Italy took 1/4 of Slovenia after WW1. You're delusional if you think Italians lived so far inland.
Really?? Because I live in that region, and I know better than you. yes I will submit to the fact that arrested self was definitely in Italian city, but literally everything else was Slovenian. if you ever look at an ethnic map of the Slovene littoral, you’ll see, it’s nearly entirely Slovenian
It also belonged to Venice before the austrians
@@jeancompte5848 And in stone age it belongs to....
@@av7987 It belonged to Venice for a thousand years and before that to Rome. I dont know why you're talking about the stone age...
It's not that we got their coastline, it's they who got our interland. L'Istria è e sarà sempre italiana
Trieste used to be an international port of global importance, because it was the only major port of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. There were daily ships going to Alexandria and Suez and many other places. Now it is some backwater provincial port within Italy, because Italy has many, many porttowns and doesn't need Trieste for anything.
@@ekesandras1481 Trieste is even today a major port for Italy, because of its geographical connections with Central Europe
@@ekesandras1481 Even if this was true, and it's not, it doesn't matter. It is Italian and will remain forever
@@ekesandras1481Not true, there was also Fiume on the other side of Istria.
@@malarobo Trieste today thrives of its relevance for import and export from and to Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, Czechia, Slovakia, Poland, etc. Like in the old days. For Italy Trieste has no economic relevance whatsoever. No pipeline connects Trieste with Roma or Milano, no major freight from Lombardia or elsewhere goes through the port of Trieste.
How about where did the native Italian speakers of Istria go?
They are completely assimilated, their children intermarried with Italians or they can't speak Croatian and feel out of place in Croatia because they speak Italian and expect to be replied to in Italian. They were never native Italian speakers in the first place, they were native Croatian regionalists turned into Italian fascist sympathizers.
The answer is the were scared of revenge by yugoslavia
It's not Slovenia's coastline. Venezia-Giulia was all that territory from Trieste to Rijeka (Fiume), almost all the adriadic coastline should be italian. Venice ruled there, when it came to the unification of Italy it was so dofferent. Ragusa (Dubrovnik) Was one of the most radiant cities of the venice republic. Trieste is not "Slovenias coastline" please, they killed a lot of italians, there was a fact called "figa giuliano-dalmata" its so important for us italian this fact. Now we are brothers because of the european union, but don't ever think that a serbian could ever be welcomed in Italy. The same for slovenians wich once got their name on some entrance of some activity saying "no dogs and no slovenians".
Ragusa has been Venetian for 150 years!
The first Constitution, the Liber Statutorum written in Latin, dates back to the end of the 1200s, testifying to its full freedom and institutional independence: to underline that all the documentation relating to its twelve centuries of republican history is written in Latin and Italian. The Slav was not well known. In fact, in 1390 the Ragusa government established Slavic language courses for those who had to engage in trade with the countries of the Balkan interior, while the acts written in Slavic countries on behalf of the government of Ragusa are all written in Latin and later in Italian. In 1472 Italian became the official language and, to differentiate itself from Venice, the eternal rival, the Tuscan accent was preferred.
The city of Messina for centuries has been the most important commercial port of the entire Mediterranean for Ragusa of Dalmatia.
Nor has Fiume been Venetian for a long time, but the dialect of that city comes from the veneto, and in the city it has always spoken Italian, the people were Italian.
Majesty [sacratissima], this is not the moment, and moreover it would be superfluous to prove what is universally known, that is to be the Italian language for centuries in Fiume the language of the school, the forum, commerce, of every public and private conference; in short, be the language of the country, and one of the main vehicles to which to attribute the degree of its culture and its commercial and industrial progress. _
- Letter from the city of Fiume to Emperor Franz Joseph, 31 January 1861
Untrue! “Venezia gulia” or to give it the actual name PRIMORSKA has always been Slovenian ethnic territory since the eighth century.. if you ever look at a map of the rap***o border. You’ll see that most of the new “Italian” land is actually Slovenian now please leave a lands I will go to the piava again.
@@StanieleSlav in these regions are like squatters. It was always latin, either with the Romans or with Venice. It just fell on your lap after ww2, so go back to sleep
@@jeancompte5848 it isn’t it is obviously not! Just come over here until someone into the face and they are Italian. They will probably laugh at you.
@@StanieleThe're not Italians, that's what i was saying... Squatters in these latin regions.
You forgot the part where Slovenia got scammed out getting Trieste.
Short answer, its the british fault, they wanted yugoslavia to give that part of the coast up after the ww2 in exchange for istria. After 1990 Slovenia took the short end of the stick and Croatia ripped the benefits. The titos partisans in 1945 actually took Trieste and shortly after they were ordered to retreat.
Simply because the whole Istria historically was Italian (Latin or Venetian), until the ethnic cleansing perpetuated by Tito (foibe)
Africans and Muslims are slowly cleansing Italy. In a few generations Italians will be the minority.
@@markmark-k5uIn a few generations Italians will be back to teach you a good lesson.
@@jeancompte5848 in a few generations Italy won’t even exist probably
@@StanieleKeep dreaming 🤣🤣🤣
@@StanieleTorneremo !
""How Italy Got Slovenia's Coastline"" Cmon man
He is absolutely right. Just give this city and the coastline back to Slovenia.
You are trolling man
@@Riccard0_Not at all, I mean business. All I want is to bring about historical justice.
@@Lechoslaw8546 Before 1918/1919 there was no administrative or political entity called Slovenia. Even the concept of Slovenia did not exist before the 19th century.
@@italiamia So what? Italy as a political entity exists since 1861, parts of it belonged to Habsburg empire, exactly like Slovenia.
My uncle, who was obsessed with Italian opera, always identified as Italian -- despite the fact that his parents were Serbian and Central European, respectively. He justified this with a claim that Trieste is Italian -- although he had no reason to believe that the Serbian ancestors were ever in Trieste and in defiance of his father not having spoken Italian at all, only Serbian and German. People make up whatever they want to be true.
Actually all the teritory are slovenian villages. Italians lived mostly in major cities like Trst, Tržič, Koper, Izola, Piran, Portorož,.... Slovenian national teritory goes west to Tržič and further. But there was quid pro quo at Paris peace tolks: as many italians remain in Yugoslavia as as many "yugoslavs" remain in Italy. Well, "yugoslavs" were mainly slovenes, but italians in Yugoslavia were in Slovenia and Croatia...
Chile and Croatia: hey I get this one
Fr
Croatia used to be much "thicker" terriorially speakig until the invasion of the ottomans. We owe our coast to no one and we most certainly did not "steal it" from Bosnia. Bosnia was stolen from us by Turks
The Current President of Chile has Croatian Roots
You should mention that the ethnic Italians living in Trieste during WW1 were conscripted in the Austro-Hungarian KundK army and sent to fight on the Russian front.
“Istria, a country of Italy, joyning to Illyricum.”
-E. P., The New World of English Words: A General Dictionary, 1663
“Istria, a peninsula of Italy, lying on the N. part of the Adriatic, long divided between Austria and the republic of Venice.”
-R. Brookes, The General Gozeiteer, 1791
“Istria, a peninsula of Italy, in the territory of Venice, lying in the north part of the Adriatic sea.”
-Encyclopaedia Britannica, Volume 11, 1810
The Italian state was only created in 1861, without Rome.
@@TheSouth-j7f Slovenian State was created in 1991.
@@Caleidus So? That territory was not a part of Italy in 1991 or on the dates you state in the 19th century..
Venice was a part of Austria in the first half if the 19th century.
@@TheSouth-j7f you are very confused. There are coins with the name Italia dating back 2000 years ago...i don't think you can find anything similar with the name Slovenia. I am talking about cultural identity. That coastline has always belonged to italy culturally and in terms of identity..
@@Caleidus I think you are confusing the Roman Empire with Italy which are two different entities.
The Roman Empire was invaded by Germanic tribes in the North while the Arabs, Saracens invaded the South. The Roman Empire (Western Empire) ceased to exist in 476 AD.
Italy and Croatia teaming up to get all the coastlines haha
😎
One day, Italy will take back all the coastline. 😉
Its more like italy gonna fall apart in 2 or 3 countries or after it causes bigger crisis then greece did@@jeancompte5848
@@jeancompte5848in your dreams
Tito was a Croat so he just gave all coastline and Islands to Croatia ,but i dont argue about it,i just argue about prices there
I went there in early '80's with a New Orleans Jazz Group. I enjoyed my time working there too, and bought my favorite medium blue suit there.
Good Lord, KhAnubis, do you wanna start yet another war over some Damn Fool Thing in the Balkans!? You know how those former-Yugoslavs are and their eternal grudges!
Really though, very interesting to know about more about how these territorial holdings came to be, especially over sea-accessible territories.
Italian Fascists also seem to harbor grudges about them losing the Second World War and territory to Slovenia and Croatia
@@GwainSagaFanChannel not Italian fascists, just Italians. I guess you like having your people killed and thrown into sinkholes and everybody else being expelled?
Fascism already failed and always will. No matter what. Benito was killed by Italians with his mutilated body hanging in Piazzale Loreto with Italians spitting on it. No honor. Even Benito in the end trusted more to Germans than to his own Italians. That's incredible.
We both have grudges.
@@MLCrow all of us do. we are all infected.
But this is interesting. As far as I know this history, Trieste was promised to Italy as a reward for switching sides during the war? After all, Yugoslavia pushed Italy out of the Balkan part of the Adriatic, and with the attacks of France's allies, Italy could be pushed into the peninsula. And remained without access to the continent. Take a closer look at historical maps and battle line movements in conjunction with secret meetings.
Great story and illuminating video! But, for all the folks in the comments worried about borders, haven't we had enough wars about who owns which parcel of land? Enjoy the benefits of free trade and open borders, live your life and let others live theirs in peace.
so...
...
within borders?
Do you know that genetics put Slovenians and Friulans in the same haplogroup? In other words Italian/Friulan speaking Friulans are genetically indistinguishable from Slovenians !!! And both are genetically not Italians and Slovenians are undoubtedly Slavic !!!
Million € question: Where did Friulans come from ??
I’m am Friulano and I am definitely not Slavic.
Low tier bait title
you could do better
Any suggestions? I wasn’t happy with the title myself but I didn’t really have any other options
@@KhAnubis For starters you could've not used "stolen" since 1)It never was slovenian in the first place and 2) italians died to conquer the city and end Risorgimento.
@@KhAnubis
"Why Italy has a funny tail border"
"How Italy and Slovenia ended sharing the adriatic coastline"
"The Trieste-Trst strip"
Nice video, you ticked all the boxes and even mentioned the Ancient Veneti who according to the parchments stored in the Kremlin in Moscow refer to the Veneti as early Slavs and built the city in 1200 BC and named it Trust. This news only came out in Nov. 2021 and showed on Moscow News. The Veneti had to kick the Illyrians out of Trieste and also occupied Istria and known as the Histri and Liburni who occupied Eastern Istria and Dalmatia and had a large navy and merchant ships.The other thing I know as my father married a lady from Trieste and her sister married a NZ soldier who was in Trieste in 1945 and later made a television program and shown on NZ TV 40 years ago, which told how the NZ Army threatened the Yugoslav Partisan Army which had taken the city 3 months before in 1945 to blow up the whole or downtown if they did not leave. The Yugoslavs not wanting that retreated to the hills 10 km above Trieste and that is how the border was formed. The NZ Army was well within their rights as Stalin had signed the treaty with Churchill and Roosevelt at Yalta that the iron curtain would be on the East side of Trieste in exchange for the USSR getting Poland.
Venetian here, what you write really makes me laugh!
Slavs?? no!!
go read Pliny the Elder if you want to know the history of the Venetians.
nothing to do with the Slavs!!
In that time, it was Yugoslavia. Not Slovenia.
It was still Slovenia primarily, then Yugoslavia which Slovenia belonged to. The foreigners might look at it from the outside and say everything from Trieste to Skopje is Yugoslavia, but inside Yugoslavia it was very clear which place belonged to which republic/today's country. Kind of like San Diego or Laredo might appear to the foreigners as all USA, which is correct, but primarily they are California and Texas first.😄
@@robertbauer3419 i can agree with you, only in case of changing borders inside the federation. Like it was for example city of Herceg Novi, in the past part of Herzegovina, and today part of Montenegro, since some communist comrades decided to redraw the line between BiH and Montenegro, in that moment federal state members. Border with Italy, was federal state border, and in the case of war, in that time whole JNA would react and tried to defend it and not only Slovenian soldiers. Before second world war Slovenia did not have the sea coast that has today. Before, first world war Slovenia was not a state. So, it was Yugoslavia primarily and then Slovenia. Pozdrav
And before for centuries was Venetian, all historic building are in venetian style.
@@Mislilac0302 Read constitution of SFRJ from 1974 and you will noticed how republics where described as autonomus parts of federation.
@@av7987 i do not have to read the 1974 SFRJ constitution, since crises between Yugoslavia and Italy about this city was far before this in 1947, when west countries scared of communism, and support Italy for taking back the city. So, it was Yugoslavia, and not Slovenia.
so basically it has more history connected to italy than it does to anyone else… and this applies for the whole area of the adriatic sea not just the city of trieste
NO.
'45
Život damo
Trst nedamo!
'45-'95
shoooping!!!
*TRST JE NAŠ!* 🇸🇮
*Südtirol ist Österreich!* 🇦🇹
Man u are confused
You can have south Tyrol
Istria e Dalmazia saranno sempre italiane
Jannik Sinner ist italienisch.......deal with it!
🤣
@@m.m.1301lol there is more albanians and serbs there then italians, you shoukd focus on trying not to bancrupt and pull whole of eu with you
It was also part of Czechoslovenia at one point.
What a lovely city! Been there on a road trip from Slovenia to Veneto, and i really like to go again soon. Back then I had no clue about its complex modern history. Thanks for the info!
casually ignore's karantanija..
It isn't Slovenia Coastline it is the rightfull land of italy
Nnnaaahh not true
@@biljanakiric5111 bro i don't speak whit Slovenian lying nationalists
@@bulilu2228 blud im not lying i hade an project about istria slavs came there in 7 century and it was slovenian from 18 century and bro you killed Slovenes and you did't blud your country did't rebulid a the bulding for Sloven minorty till 2023 wich was burned down after ww1 and how im a natiolst when you say stuff like that and it was itilan befor the Slavic People came there your littary a deftion of majmon
"Trieste is no Vienna" (from Gottlob Frege) is an important example in philosophy of language, and so probably the most frequent context in which philosophers refer to Trieste.
Real title: "how Jugoslavia took the Venezia-Giulia and Istria from Italy"
right
@@pieroo7 Or title how Italy betray Germans and AH in ww1 to grab, sezee and occupied territories where majoriti of populations were non Italians ( Slovenes and Croats) and how Italians treated this population during faschist era and during ww2 when even more territories with majoriti of non Italian population were occupied by military attack on Kingdom of Jugoslavia.
@@pieroo7 Real historical title How Italia has loose occupied and anexed territories after 2ww by colaboration of their evil faschist regime with nazis and loosing war against liberation allied coalition?
@@av7987 Population ins Istria werw 80% italians.. They were massacred by jugoslavs communists
@@pieroo7 Where you read this kind of nonsense claims? In Italian right wing NF propaganda leafetes? Read last 1910 cenzus of national population in Histria counted in AH and you will be soon been noticed that your claim about national % of Italian population in Histria is false and much overrated. About massacres you writted did even
u think shold first escevad remains of so called victims of communists and then identificated them. Than can you historicly correct write about that. Nothing about that have not been made jet exept escevation in fifthies when Italian authorities excevade from foibe caves near Trst and find about 500 human remains so called victims of communism wearing Wermacht, SS and faschists RSI uniforms togheder with animal cadavres. No further escevation have been made since then because it is no historical evidence of mass killings on a larger scale wich Italian right wing NF propaganda claims till today. So your provocations are usless for people who can critical think by them self and analize false claims.
I agree with everything except the last word (which is kind of funny). You said Trieste tells the story of "the Balkans"?? What does that even mean? Trieste is by no definition part of the Balkans, neither is Slovenia (by Wikipedia). If anything, Trieste tells the story of Austria, Italy and Slovenia.
It is Balkan
@@JmKrokY Says who? By what definition?
@@gamb61borderline Balkan
It is part of the Balkan. Source in slovenian language (use google translate):
sl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan
@@ro.stan.4115 It says "Countries whose territory is mostly outside the Balkan Peninsula". And on the English Wikipedia it says "Sometimes the term also includes Romania and southern parts of Slovenia. Italy, although by some definitions having a small part of its territory (the Province of Trieste) on the Peninsula, is generally excluded. "
Saying that Trieste is Balkan is just so wrong.
You mean how Slovenia got Italy's coastline?
🇷🇸❤🇮🇹
🇮🇹🇷🇸🇷🇺
@@Zz_Mike-Hawk_zZdo you realize that Russians hate Italy right?
@@SlovenianMapper6 Do you realize that all of the Balkan countries hate you, right ?
@@SlovenianMapper6 And most of the Russians LOVE Italy. I know that for a fact (my girlfriend is Russian). On the other hand, nobody likes you. Not even your "balkan brothers" 🤣🤣🤣
@@FilipJovanović-l6d Jovance opet praviš...g...a?
Trieste is known as la città più italiana or la città italianissima - the Most Italian City.
The anti-Italian policies of the Habsburgs and their attempts at forcible Slavicization prior to World War I, together with the 42-day occupation of the Yugoslavs and the Foibe Massacres at the end of World War II (amounting to two attempted ethnic cleansings in under a century), in addition to the decade-long military occupation by the Western Allies after the war, not to mention the current political climate and the presence of a very small but very vocal and hostile anti-Italian Slovene minority, has all only served to reinforce the strong Italian patriotism of Trieste.
A small percentage of the current citizens of Trieste are Italian Exiles and descendants of Exiles who were fraternally welcomed by the city and people of Trieste after being forced to flee their ancient homes in Istria, Dalmatia and Julian Venetia in order to escape massacre and persecution at the hands of the Yugoslav Communists at the end of World War II.
Today Trieste remains one of the most proud and patriotic cities in all of Italy and is home to a number of patriotic, nationalist and irredentist organizations devoted to defending Trieste and its millennial Italian civilization.
@Caledius: Here we go again. Yet another Italian neo-imperialist coming out of the woodwork! I love Italy, have visited many places in Italy, and I'm studying Italian, so it's upsetting that so many Italians dream of getting a THIRD coast - having two long and beautiful coastlines, plus the islands of Sicily, Sardinia and Elba, isn't enough for them. They don't accept the results of WW2 and would prefer to start another war instead of living in peace. You talk about "massacre and persecution at the hands of the Yugoslav Communists". What about the joint Italian-German invasion of Yugoslavia in 1941? What about the Italian concentration camps in Italy where thousands of Slovenians and Croatians were murdered? It's no wonder lots of Yugoslavs were angry with Italians at the end of WW2. My late mother lived through both Italian and German occupation in Yugoslavia. As for Trieste, it has always been a cosmopolitan city, with Italians, Slovenes, Serbs, and others. Italian patriotism is fine, but Italian fascism and imperialism stink!
@@aviadilo Cry about it
italians littery wanted to kill all slavs in ww2 let alone in their history...
Lorenzo the way things are going with refugees/migrants, Italy won't be Italian anymore. Muslims and Africans are destroying churches in Italy, crime is on the rise. Italian birth rates are on the decline while Muslims in Italy are having 4-5 kids. In a few generations Italians will be the minority.
Triestans are Slovenes. In fact ancient Rome had a lot of Slavic slaves who they took from the Balkans. The word ciao is proof.
Bro tito gave Trieste to Italy because of some sort of gift for the end of the war thats what i heard
I knew this dispute existed but I didn’t realize people were still mad enough to comment on it. Not trying to be dismissive I just figured it was one that sort of fell by the wayside
A lot has to do on how it happened. Fascist Italy occupied Slovenia and parts of croatia in WW2 , committing atrocities, and at the end of the war the yougoslav communists committed atrocities (search about "foibe"), so there was a lot of hate. Also the city of Gorizia (a little to the north of Trieste) is divided into 2 since the end of the war. Today there are great relations between Italy and Slovenia, but in Italy politicians use the dead as political leverage (now we have an extreme right in the government (some are clearly fascists), when the left says something about what fascists did to Italy (north Italy was occupied by nazis and the puppet fascist government worked with the germans to repress Italians), the right always answers with:" but the foibe"(and obviously the extreme left denies what happened)), so a lot of hate comes from pure political idiocy (idk about Slovenia tho)
@@giovannipeggio5071 But the foibe ... are mostly a fantasy of Italian right with which to replace actual history. Joint Italian-Slovenian historian commison found out that only around 4500 Italian presons went missing during and immediately after the ww2. Around 1600 of them on the area of Slovenia and the rest in Croatia. A very big mayority of these missing persons were soldiers and known fascists. Most of the bones in the caves that actualy hold bones are from domestic animals, the rest would be mostly from soldiers (German, Italian, partisans) and very little of it would be civilian, who again would be of all nationalities.
As a Slovenian I can tell you that the vast majority of slovenians are still mad at the divide and want Gorizia and Trieste to be slovenian. But there's no political movement for it since we are all part of the EU and the size difference between the countries would make such endeavor hard to achieve so noone will try it.
@@valentintapata2268 most sources cite 5000 deads, most of them weren't fascists . There was an exodus of italians from dalmatia, history must never be used as political leverage
@@giovannipeggio5071 Please find the comissions work and read it, much of Italian literature and certantly of public opinion is mindwashed, it's much easier to make yourself a victim than to be the guilty. There are also good Italian historians like Angelo del Boca for example.
actually you should ask yourself "How Slovenia (and Croatia) got Italy's cooastline"
Croatia? How did Croatia get "Italian" coastline?
By winning in WW2 😊
@@JmKrokYBy winning in WW2
@@ro.stan.4115 Croatia was on the losing side of WW2.
@@JmKrokY They were always on the loosing side...
Next, how Croatia got the Italian coast?
Thanks to Serbia
@@Caesar_MagnusTito was Croat.
@@limao6880 They have been liberated coastline in partisan liberation war from occupating forces nazi Germany and faschist Italy.
@@limao6880 Same way like Italians gets before them.
Because the coast has always been Italian/Romance, duh
Don't forget about Venice
I've been to Trieste twice, and now seeing here it's kinda Fun, exciting weird. This city is indeed a bit strange-confunsing tbh, it's not italian, not austrian, not slovene, not croatian - it's a weird mix, and makes me a bit cognitive dissociative xD
Its italian and the were always the majority
Underrated comment. As someone who's from Trieste, I agree with you.
@@karst1559 Ahahaha
Yes its interesting ,i parked my car south off center just near the industrial port and there was some worst commy look buidings everywhere i ever saw , even in ex Yugoslavia you would have hard time to find them ,but then there is also and nice parts off town.
I been to Triest like 10 times but generally not fan off it,maybe becase 2 much industry is in the town
@@No-ch6fpas a slovenian I agree
This video is completely misleading, so much so that I believed the title ("how Italy stole Slovenia's coastline" he changed it now) was a joke itself until I realised it wasn't, because it's EXACTLY THE OTHER WAY AROUND 😂. The whole Istrian littoral was populated by latins, that then became Venetians and then Italian. Slavs begun migrating there around the 7th century, establishing minor villages in the Istrian inland, without touching rhe coast for a very long time. The city of Trieste itself never for a minute had a Slovenian population majority, in fact Italians were not only the majority, but even the Slovenian minority fluently spoke Venetian, as the Latin culture completely dominated the region. In fact, not only Trieste (which today is still in Italy), but the whole Slovenian littoral (Capodistria - Koper, Isola - Izola) has always had a consistent Italian majority, but it's not only about about the language: the cultural background is very strongly Italian. Walk around any coastal Slovenian town: Venetian architecture dominates, the same way in coastal Slovenia like all the way down to Montenegro. The term "stolen" is also quite offensive to the 200 to 300.000 Italians who were forcibly displaced by the Jugoslav regime from 1943 to 1954. Ironically, yesterday was the national day of remembrance for Foibe vicitims (the Jugoslav partisans killed about 10.000 people while emptying the territories south of Trieste, because everyone was Italian and this wasn't good for them). So, the population, the language, the culture, the state itself has been predominately Latin, Venetian, Italian since unmemorable times. I don't understand the point of this video. Stolen?
let me remind you what Italians did and how they treated Slovenians that lived in the part of our country that was under Italian occupation between WW1 and WW2
Thats because trst je naš
@@studiosraufncingr6965 The region was always home to violence as for the continuous changes of dominance in the region. As for Istria (and Dalmatia too, for completeness) the Habsburg led ethnic cleansing policies AGAINST Italians from ~1820s to 1918. Then, the fascist government of Italy tried to reverse the Italian population decline in Istria, often using violent means, the same means used by partisans and by the Jugoslav government until the break-up.
Casual reminder just because a majority spoke Italian and defined themselves as Italian does not mean everyone is automatically Italian the area also houses a Slovenian population mostly in the interior with Italian population located on the coast and in the city of Triest
@@slobodailismrt_ this reminds me of German Fascist movements arguing that simply because Poland had Germans living there it should once again be German
As a contemporary Slovenian I am quite happy Trieste/Trst is in Italy so I can go enjoy a different vibe and see all those nice exhibitions that never seem to reach Ljubljana (like the van Gogh I saw recently). We are both EU members and share the same currency, so Trieste is being sort of symbolically adopted by many Slovenian who love to go there on daily trips and enjoy a delicious espresso. History is history, now we are in 2024.
It actually all belongs to the roman empire
No it's all part of eSwatini.
If neither parties know what to do just give the city of Triest to Austria
So Italy
@@m.m.1301No, Romania 🇷🇴
@@JmKrokY That I can get behind
It is Italian. Actually even the outer less developed area, now called Slovenia, was part of the Venetian Republic that is Italian now.
Haha nice try, Slovenia is waaaay more developed than the land around Triste, you should cross the border and check it for yourself.
@@sasokornet6616 I have! Slovenia is owned by foreign interests. Italy is the second biggest manufacturing economy in Europe after Germany. Just until about 15 years ago, Slovenians had to go to Trieste in Italy or Graz in Austria for most shopping.
The correct question Is How Slovenia got italy's coastline
Yeah, have you ever heard any famous navigators coming out of Croatia or Slovenia? :))) NONE, that's because they never had any coastal land on the Adriatic until they were pushed there by the Ottomans and because Austria wanted to decrease the influence of italian irredentism after Italian Unification in 1831 by populating Istria and Dalmatia with non italians.
@@GradjanskiDinamoOvo nije istina moj prijatelju. Ja sam Talijan i jako volim i poštujem slavenske narode, naučio sam malo "srpskohrvatski" (u moje vrijeme se tako zvao) ali sada sam zaboravio i ne mogu dobro govoriti. U Istri Slaveni su bili većina u središnjem i istočnom području, dok su u zapadnom području bili većina Talijani (koji su govorili mletački, a ne talijanski). U Dalmaciji je slavenski prodor zapravo započeo u srednjem vijeku, ali je kroz mnoga stoljeća talijanski (mletačko-dalmatinski) element bio vrlo jak, osobito u urbanim središtima. Trst je kroz svoju povijest uvijek bio većinski talijanski grad, iako je u habsburškom razdoblju evoluirao u multietnički grad (Talijani, Nijemci, Mađari, Židovi, Slovenci, Hrvati, Srbi, Grci, Armenci... ). Ako si iz Zagreba, daj od mene veliku pusu tvom prekrasnom gradu u kojem sam doživio lijepe trenutke i kojeg se uvijek s ljubavlju sjećam.
What Blud you want even more of our coast you littary were killing oppresing Slavic People in istria
I’m sorry to say that Trieste is not a Slovenian town by no means, never been. Slovenia is a 35 years old country never existed before.
Why are you sorry?
i agree! trieste is not a slovene town.. well not yet (look out for june 30th 2035) but the hinterland and the coast around trieste (sistana duino and those places) where slovenian and that is our real coastline. what we got was some italian towns with slovenian hinterland and not the real kart coastline.
@@Staniele Keep quiet little buddy, i'm litterally older than your country.
@@jeancompte5848 country? yes.. but the slovene nation has existed here since the 6th century.. maybe even earlier. ever heard of Karantanija? it spanned from pannonia to verona!
@@Staniele Carentania submitted to Odilo of Bavaria (German), himself a vassal of the Franks. You were the vassals of a vassal 🤣
And its not even you slovanians, Carentania was the predecessor of the March of Carinthia, created within the Carolingian Empire ( Frankish)
You should stop taking credit for what others did.
More:" How croatia and slovenia got italiy's coastline"
The title of the video is embarrassing
The entire costal region was once territory amid the republic of Venice
The costal part was heavily inhabited by Italian speaking people
The more inland portion on the other hand had a more pronounced Slavic population
The entire Istria peninsula was once part of the region of Friuli Venezia Giulia
For centuries italian and Slavic people lived togher in relative peace under the Venetian republic and later the kingdom of Italy
Then fascism happened
The italians begin to descriminate the Slavics for 2 decades under fascist rule
Then a world war happened
Slavic partisan begin a reprisa campaign against against Italians that culminated in summary executions and ethnicity cleanings
The infamous foibe
Italians run from that terrirtories while Tito and his men tried to advance and expel as many non Slavic as possible from Istria Dalmatia regions
They stopped only when they encounter allied troops in north Italy
At the end of the war Trieste was put under allied occupation for years
The damage was done
Iugoslavia kept essentially all the terrirtories they managed to occupy and Italy was punished by the Allie’s by losing that lands to the newly reformed state of Iugoslavia
The entire costa balcan region was once Italian and for centuries nearly every island of the Adriatic and the majority of the balcan coast was under Venetian rule