That’s so true about Di pushing on themselves, I’ve literally been feeling like crap for months now because I have been failing to meet the standards I have set for myself.
This totally makes sense. Same with Shan's point about everyone being feelers. We are all SF animals at the end of the day, and some of us have different ways of getting those needs met.
Sometimes it feels like I'm beating about the bush when I could just go direct at all of this and stop making things so complicated. Assuming I am, as I think, an NF. Though, granted, it's never been a surprise to me that we all want that Feeling reward. So I guess I got that one down. (PLOT TWIST: I'm actually an ST who only imagines she understands how we need Feeling! But wait. STs don't have imagination, right?)
I'm impressed Dave!!! It's actually true. I have a biology degree and studied developmental biology (the biology of how animals develop from conception to birth). All fetuses start out as female in their morphology and then hormones come into play and the female either develops into a male OR stays a female. This happens in many animals, not just humans.
I think this is the best compare and contrast video so far. Everything seems to click. Also, looking forward to 2019 Te Talk-Out. Yes, it should be a series! Not pushing on you guys, I'm just excited along with you guys lol 😉
INTJ here. I have always heard people talk about self-hatred but I have never experienced or felt that personally. I think a lot of that has to do with how much/well you were loved as a child. I truly love myself but am not self-absorbed or arrogant. I am compassionate and empathetic and caring and kind. And I love myself, flaws and all.
Love the boxes at the bottom spelling out the terms that your currently talking about. I get less lost in the verbal flow. Love this clarification for how much our deciders push us forward.
I've always been under the opposite impression - everyone starts off as an observer, but a tribe based traumatic experience forces them to start caring about validation instead of trying to veil it. Interesting to see your perspectives.
These videos have been super helpful into making MBTI something that actually makes sense and is useful to me. I’ve been watching these videos constantly since Tuesday and I feel like I’ve gone from only understanding my types previously and not getting others to at least feeling like I think I can place what other people are. What helped me is that before I would rely too much on people who do these things are these types to just looking at the behavior and then classifying based on what reflects reality than what I think reality is. All these videos are starting to click together and make sense based off what I’ve learned before. Maybe I’ll finally learn how to people. I’m an INTP if you couldn’t tell.
I feel that the personality is formed by the epigenetics + genetics. I figured as we grow older, we should observe ourselves more often and realise the patterns and loop in the way we respond to. Some people live without realising these patterns and loops are causing you many problems with life in general. If we can understand ourselves alot better and in which way we respond to the environment, we are better able to create better lives for ourselves.
Yeah, it's amazing what true self-awareness can do. Simply by knowing that the mental trajectory you're on will likely lead you to do something you don't wanna do (or lead you to not do something you do wanna do), you avoid going down said trajectory. With positive trajectories (feedback loops, the upward/downward spiral things), i guess it's a bit more complicated, but awareness of those can also be very valuable.
Ohhh now it made sense to me, because my demons seem to be both about things and people. But not self/tribe, and more about chaos/control, also regarding peoples thoughts/feeling about me (being right or wrong in some situation, competent or incompetent, useless etc) however I'm always in for conspiracies, fears of the unknown very strongly.
This one is hard for me to grasp because they are saying "I hate myself because I'm not living to up other's standards, or I'm not living up to my standards. But i have never felt self-hatred. I don't resonate with this. INTJ here. But, I am pretty sure I have Savior Te because I am always the one eager to help and show how good I am at something. And I put pressure on myself to always be improving as a person, one way or another. I have masculine Fi (I'm pretty sure). You don't want to cross me with my values. I'll start dropping the F-bomb...not out loud. Nobody will hear it but I'm saying it to myself and biting my tongue around others and fuming inside. My grandfather was an Assembly of God preacher and I used to satiate my need to be accepted by the family by saying "I will always do the right thing". And I knew that the "right thing" meant something different to me than to them but I felt that as long as it was the right thing for ME, then I was satisfied. It worked. I was always on their good side. I think my Grandmother knew that was my angle. She was pretty Fe dom I think and she was very encouraging of me having that mentality even though I think she KNEW I was going to decide for myself. In her own way, she respected that I would be the one to decide what was right or wrong. Also, I just didn't shove it in their face that I'm a total Agnostic, and a lesbian (which they eventually came to accept and love me anyway because they are good people). But anyway, I digress. So I don't get that whole "hate myself" thing.
Hahaha! You know, even after all these videos and knowledge of how this entire typology thing works, I still don't know if I'm self-first or tribe-first - even this paragraph is somewhere in between introspection with Di and (at least in a roundabout way) asking with De. It's interesting as all hell, yet the more I learn the more ignorant I feel about it.
I think we all do have our 'natural' self. Some of our traits are shaped by our jobs and daily lives. If you listen closely, maybe you will find a side that is more comfortable. Example, I am more of self-first person though yes, tribe-first is something I have in me, but the self just feels more effortless and more fufilling etc. I would refer 'self' as belongings of yours, ie: spouse, family, friends vs 'tribe' ie: larger communities, groups, workplace, organisations etc.
@@ltpstan Yup. Still can't decide. I do move the pieces strategically for "me time", but enjoying when it's there it can be difficult because I'm always looking over my shoulder at the clock or for someone to call upon me for a task. Dave here also talks about "what you do" versus "what you want to do" and that personality type is defined by the former. I am _definitely_ not comfortable with sassing anyone who isn't a family member or friend (even with some of them I prefer to keep up an appearance of public civility). Baseline though? I seclude myself in a dark corner of the house and do things for my own entertainmemt - listening to music, refining ideas, and putting down video game numbers on spreadsheets mostly. In public, I'm certainly tribe first, and have absolutely no reservations about striking up conversations with randoms - usually comes in the form of "I like your style!" or "you should try this" or "It's good, but this and that; improve those and it's perfect". I think it's true of almost anyone that we act in differently in the company of other people than on the internet with voiceless avatars. So, my own description of what I do may not even be accurate. I suppose I'm going to have to do an interview, if it doesn't cost too much.
@@AlastorTheNPDemonI understand where you are coming from. The dilemma is the baseline. I guess who ought to look in a holistic manner. Based on your text, you could be a _NTP? Just baseless guess. INFP here, pretty sure I am. 🤣
@@ltpstan I've been thinking somewhere in the area of ENTJ (if so, a rather softcore type), INTJ (ugh... yeah, I know, everyone on the goddamned internet...), ENTP (same stack as INTJ, but opposite charges; I doubt this due to that the more I like something, the more I try to hide it), and possibly even a really peacock-heavy ESFP (Like Dave says, take what you think you are and flip it upside down! Sure...). INTJ seems the most likely, but once again, there are a lot of goddamn people on the internet claiming to be this type and it makes me feel rather awkward to just put that label on myself without knowing for 100% sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not INTP though - I don't take the same issue with social heirarchies as they do, and the gap between my sensing "facts" function and my intuitive "logic" function is an epic fucking chasm. Everything is pointing to INTJ here, but it makes me feel like a cliché. Definitely going to need as many opinions on this as possible.
What you guys got to in the end with the Di’s and the M-Di’s wow yes. I hear a lot of them get into the loop of feeling meaningless. With me as a De, I find meaning every day by default because I’m responsible for the temperature of the outside of the world which requires me to show up every day.
Thanks, great video. At some point can you do one explaining masculine/feminine observer functions? I understand M/F deciders but observers completely elude me.
I have the same doubt. I'm an Si/Ti and I know I have masculine Ti, because I push on me much more than I would push on others; but I can't figure out whether I have masculine or feminine Si.
I think and learn about so many different fields, physics, astronomy, music theory, but also about psychology, ergo, I think about humans a lot, about how they think, why we do what we do...I am a clinical psychologist...but I am not really happy helping people, but it gives meaning to my life, it gives me a field in which I go out and finally see whether my thinking/learning can be of use...that make me a decider or an observer?
1:56 - Shan literally looking at a graphic explaining why there's a 50/50 chance of having a male or female - "you'd think there'd be more females!" XD
Dave, you are actually correct. Good job! I am a biologist and yes, it is actually true. All fetuses start out female and depending on the hormones in the womb and other factors, either continue to develop as female or start to develop as males. Just look at the genitalia. The clitoris is the vestigial penis. The labia are what become the testes.
Bingo! You got it. Deciders are trying to avoid the pain of Tribe rejection (people). Observers are trying to avoid the fear of missing information (things).
I think I have savior masculine Fi...soooo true being hard on the self and just feeling that self loathing. I need that Te feedback to remind me, ok look at the great stuff you’ve done in life, you’re not a loser after all!
I actually looked it up long ago. Sex is an evolutionary step in our past, of you go long back enough there technically only females (but not in modern mammal sense). Anyway this video is amazing, I have been wondering around the same thing for a while now, like what are the base "functions" and how the split happens.
Could we be SF feminine to begin physically in the womb and psychologically by default and then deviate become physically masculine, and psychologically intuitive and/or thinking?
Does anyone have any advice on how to figure this out? I have a hard time understanding whether I have Fi as a savior or Te (I believe I'm a single decider)... I've always had a hard time liking things or telling people what I like cause I felt like I'd have to explain myself (what I couldn't even explain to myself). I didn't want them to think those reasons are stupid. So I'd just never tell anyone what I like at all. I'd always just go with other people's reasons. But I also feel horrible when I have to do things that according to others there are good reasons for. I just don't feel like I have a personal reason to value those things (in other words, I often can't relate to people liking something yet I feel like I should because there are reasons why they like them). Savior Te or Fi?
Decider: acts a lot (acts too fast and gets in trouble) Observer: knows a lot (has trouble acting on something) Decider's homework in life is how to learn to observe the world and time as a whole Observer's homework in life is how to learn to decide and just go for it for my reasons and values
Also yeah this makes sense with the deciders=pain vs observers=fear dichotomy y’all got going on cuz I remember seeing that shit and being like oh hell yeah im afraid of a ton of shit....cuz, I mean, it seems pretty painful
What if I relate to De more yet often times too lazy to actually do something for others? Am I just a delusional Di or is it just because its natural that everyone craves some sort of validation from the tribe
Great video! I dig any lesson that reminds us we're all the same person. Your first point is exactly what I've been thinking about with the animal brain vs the prefrontal cortex. Look at it evolutionarily. Did we start out forming patterns and puzzling logic to avoid pain? Fuck no, we ran around getting mauled by cheetahs for millenia. After lots of trial and error, our brains developed new ways to go about it. I'm becoming more certain that it's impossible to separate Feeling from Thinking. If we believe that a savior couples with a demon, then Thinkers are of necessity running from their Feelings. Their reasons are guided by that weak ability of accessing emotion. Any scientist, philosopher, RUclips psychologist, etc. out there who talks about decisions without mentioning emotional logic knows nothing. Observer functions work the same way. We all Sensorially experience life as it happens, but Intuitives run from it. Their pattern-forming is an imagination, a fake version of what it would be like to live in immediate experience. It's a literal fear of reality. So, any INTJ "mastermind" who disavows the material world is way, way off.
I actually agree with my ENTJ counter-type here... but in the opposite way. (INTP here) I think we're ALL thinkers, and the Feelers are just depriving themselves of simply examining their feels and defining them. I feel like I can easily explain ANY "unexaplainable" Fi feeling if I can get the person to talk about it enough. (I might be wrong, but that's how I FEEL because I'm doing that CONSTANTLY myself. It feels like F types just aren't trying TO ME. I'm wrong.) Anyway, yes, this is why T and F are linked and N and S, they kind of are the same, in a way, just starting at different ends and prioritizing different things. That's my intuition about it, after running through my thoughts, at least.
So how can someone improve the De more ? I always have this thing that I realize I do something and I think its not good enough becuse someone I know did better or this or that happened. I also like that people apreciatte what I did but still at the end of the day I am the one that judges one thing. I am usually stubborn when someone tells me something. Is what Im describing a masculine Ti saviour or a demon ?
Maybe simply, for observers, I want to figure things out so that I can see them the way a double observer does. Deciders may be like, I want to figure myself out so that I can see people like a double decider does
Wow, im new and unfamiliar so i thought i was observer, i guess thinking it sounds like perceiver, idk... but then i read the two sentences here and im like okay im the sentence on top there. And my eyes are going back and forth.. "is something off? It can't be, can it?". And then i see it, whoa. I see my first and last mbti letter in the decider category. 😄
Just so I understand correctly, when you say that "masculine Di's [tend to get stuck in loops of negativity]" "masculine" refers to the Di function? In other words, their second gender axis would actually be F based on the De function (e.g. MF Ti/Se …)?
I'm confused. Looking at their model statements, I totally resonated with the positive Di: "I'm badass cuz I'm Lex-Appeal", but then also with the negative De: "I suck cuz Lex-Appeal isnt as good as everyoneelse-appeal's opinion of how much I should not suck" Anyone have any ideas?
Dav uses an “NF ANALOGY”.🎉 Great work Dav. Keep them coming for all of us nfs. Newsflash= Maybe we were all born as female Deciders and Infps, with Fi first and intuition first, then switched to male observers.😮
Of course we're all feelers. What does the T do but defend the F? Of course we're all deciders. What does P do but defend the F? F, Value, is the core of all things. Without value we would have no reason to do anything. With pure reason there is no motivation. Motivation is from Value. You guys are nearing the philosophical implications of this.
This is what you get from simplify observers problems to fear of spiders ,heard of OCD ,poverty,autism,dyslexia,chronic procrastination,ADHD ,ill rather let my family judge me ,shame me,bra,wtf ,than end up poor cause of observing problems
That’s real we are all females and become males. The vagina is actually an inside out penis.... literally learned that in nursing school and I used to work as an ob nurse. Good description haha and Jurassic Park haha accurate.
It’s interesting because how you described staying a female or becoming a male is accurate when you consider the hormonal wash in the womb which turns the female brain and body into a male one 🤔
P O W E R - R E D - B U L L There’s a difference between MBTIs definition of extroversion/introversion and the traditionally understood definition. I’ve known Ixxx types who are extroverted according to the non MBTI definition
This sounds like shadows are real because that's actually what critical Fe parent is suppose to do to the Fi in terms of motivation to themselves or to convince other people to do the Te grunt work so that they can stay in their Fi+Ni inner world.
No wonder people struggling to get their personality type ,especially when they see pain and fear from all ends not just from sh**ty people or being a sh**ty person but also from goals not being met ,poverty,what will happen ,perfectionism,job opportunities,spelling,their mission in life,career,of you heard of people rather dying than being poor ,or people dying from poverty ,you must know of such ,to such claims
Just because there are 3 x-chromosomes of 4 sex chromosomes total with potential to form combinations does not mean the probability for each x-chromosome to result in a female is 25% & therefore that zygotes are 75% likely to be female. And the two x-chromosomes from the mother cannot combine with each other (otherwise, she'd give birth to her own twin... How freaky would that be?) ... which is the only way a girl would be more 50% likely using a Mendelian-style/Punnett-square model of oversimplified theoretical statistics. But it's actually not exactly 50% -- more like 48.88%. The x chromosome from the mother is given. The odds of the sex depend on the father's contribution, which depends not only on the distribution of x vs y chromosomes his testis produce, but how fast they swim, what their role is (yes, there are different types of sperm), length of distance sperm need to travel, position of the uterus, and some complicated physics involving the x-chromosome being ever so slightly heavier than the y-chromosome. BTW, I'm tired of hearing the feminist-propagated myth that all zygotes/embryos/fetuses start out female. It's just not true. Physiologically, all fetuses start out _sexually undifferentiated._ There's a difference! Even then, though zygotes & embryos are anatomically and hormonally indistinct, each still has a distinct karyotype from the moment of conception. Why we gotta act like we were first or are the default state in order to feel special or something? Totally off topic, I know. Male nipples are just a vestigial genetic correlation from cells that never became differentiated. Okay, rant over. Carry on. 😅
I'm not a fan of the idea that some cognitive functions were more fundamental or important than others. Sure, De is important for all people, that's why everyone has it. Humans are social animals after all. Tribal think is fundamental in human behaviour. Humans have a sense of tribe value, yes, but they also have a sense of individuality. That's what drives us towards excellence in our own part. I think that the notion of a primary tribal nature (De) is simply a bias of two extraverted decider individuals failing to analyse their own system. It's of course natural that Di-users often fail to fulfill their De needs because it's not their strong suit. That's exactly the same problem that De-users have with Di, inverted. They are constantly seeking internal validation from the tribe, an assurance that they could be happy with themselves, which is kind of illogical because it doesn't work like that. I would like to question your game here. I can't come up with a reason as to why people would be inherently De-primary. Doesn't that kind of stand against the common Jungian perspective that is based on dichotomy and functional preference. I think it's needless to put up some weird models on "Di - diverting from the De-path". Both functions are surely valid parts of human cognition.
maybe the whole thing is like a paraphiletic order : as Dave said in the ST video " we all have Fe , Te pepole just take a different approach to Fe" then another thing that was established is that Fe is naturally more masculine than Te so i would think that the majority of caveman probably were lead Fe also another thing , i think that the Si/Ne axis developed secondarily afther the Se/Ni axis since the second one seems to work better , in a video talking about Si they said that pepole that have Si still have a hard time doing the sensory organizing . i also think that a ape would have no use of Ne but would use very well Se to gather informations then it would make an abstract map in it's mind rather than a fisical map or organising the enviorment in a way in wich the fruit is disposable . humans instead have Si so they Ne figured ways to make food grow were they needed it , and then they needed to fisically organise ( Si) the food because other pepole would value them , and this is how observers were born . then afther that , there was less need of taking care of other pepole , so some pepole started to think wait now i can do what i want since i don't need help from others and others don't need my help , but why should i do something now? because it would be awsome if i did , but how do i do an awsome thing? i need to make it work in my terms (and then writhing was born) , and the first lead Ti was probably born in this way . then other pepole probably diverged from the lead Ti and started doing thing s because either they liked them(Fi) or they just worked for everyone(Te) . then some observers had their plans spoiled by the De users who made the food work for everyone and so they flipped and the gatherers were probably born this way . so this is a idea that popped in my mind , i don't know if this is in any way shape or form accurate but i think might explain how we went from chimps who are completely probably all some variation of Fe/Se to us with or 512 types . in short i think that Si organiser were the first different type who developed , then some of them probably flipped completely and became lead Ti , or at least savior Ti . and then the other deciding axis developed as a offshoots from lead Ti , and gatherers were probably the last one to survive since they needed somebody else to organise them .
I hope you have a list of tragic events of those your typing ,to claim Ixxp Exxj go through more pain and Ixxj Exp go through more fear ,and no diagrams are not facts.That Ixxp Exxj get killed and Ixxj and Exxj go to jail temporarily,thus they go through more pain ,wtf 😑🤦♂️
Here is your science bro ;) -> www.researchgate.net/publication/51189947_People-Things_and_Data-Ideas_Bipolar_Dimensions In short, there is no such thing as Bipolar (one or another). People are not one or another. We all have a spectrum of interest in BOTH People & Things, Data & Ideas, etc. Hence, everyone is a decider and observer, everyone is a sensor and an intuitive. We just don't 'see' what we don't put our attention to.
No. Just no. Look at the enneagram, guys. That's about ego motivations. And the motivations are about many different things, not necessarily other people. The MBTI is about methods people use, not motivations.
"We all have nipples" .
And that's all that matters.
That’s so true about Di pushing on themselves, I’ve literally been feeling like crap for months now because I have been failing to meet the standards I have set for myself.
This totally makes sense. Same with Shan's point about everyone being feelers. We are all SF animals at the end of the day, and some of us have different ways of getting those needs met.
So you're more like me than you thought lol
@@Sarahenfj Lol. That's right. I don't even need to do an ISFP day! 😆 But I will!
@baby turtle lol
Sometimes it feels like I'm beating about the bush when I could just go direct at all of this and stop making things so complicated. Assuming I am, as I think, an NF. Though, granted, it's never been a surprise to me that we all want that Feeling reward. So I guess I got that one down. (PLOT TWIST: I'm actually an ST who only imagines she understands how we need Feeling! But wait. STs don't have imagination, right?)
@@NoraRoisin you very bright😉
I'm impressed Dave!!! It's actually true. I have a biology degree and studied developmental biology (the biology of how animals develop from conception to birth). All fetuses start out as female in their morphology and then hormones come into play and the female either develops into a male OR stays a female. This happens in many animals, not just humans.
That’s actually true lol, by default you do develop female. The y actually mostly codes for things that blocks the development into female.
I think this is the best compare and contrast video so far. Everything seems to click.
Also, looking forward to 2019 Te Talk-Out. Yes, it should be a series!
Not pushing on you guys, I'm just excited along with you guys lol 😉
"Why are they yellow...?" Lol. I love your brain.
They have jaundice. This is no laughing matter!
It's a good question
@@heatherbryant4197...maybe we should send help! lol
INTJ here. I have always heard people talk about self-hatred but I have never experienced or felt that personally. I think a lot of that has to do with how much/well you were loved as a child. I truly love myself but am not self-absorbed or arrogant. I am compassionate and empathetic and caring and kind. And I love myself, flaws and all.
Love the boxes at the bottom spelling out the terms that your currently talking about. I get less lost in the verbal flow.
Love this clarification for how much our deciders push us forward.
“We all have the same needs, were just talking about them differently” yes!!
I've always been under the opposite impression - everyone starts off as an observer, but a tribe based traumatic experience forces them to start caring about validation instead of trying to veil it. Interesting to see your perspectives.
The most interesting video in a while. It filled a lot of holes in the OPS theory i was wondering about.
^^Still wondering
These videos have been super helpful into making MBTI something that actually makes sense and is useful to me. I’ve been watching these videos constantly since Tuesday and I feel like I’ve gone from only understanding my types previously and not getting others to at least feeling like I think I can place what other people are. What helped me is that before I would rely too much on people who do these things are these types to just looking at the behavior and then classifying based on what reflects reality than what I think reality is. All these videos are starting to click together and make sense based off what I’ve learned before. Maybe I’ll finally learn how to people.
I’m an INTP if you couldn’t tell.
Damn good!! That De and Di talk was so interesting and insightful !!
Thanks for this new information! I'll be using it to FINALLY figure out my spouse and I. I love this channel!!
I feel like Shan's ideas got more of a spotlight here, which was cool
I feel that the personality is formed by the epigenetics + genetics. I figured as we grow older, we should observe ourselves more often and realise the patterns and loop in the way we respond to. Some people live without realising these patterns and loops are causing you many problems with life in general. If we can understand ourselves alot better and in which way we respond to the environment, we are better able to create better lives for ourselves.
Yeah, it's amazing what true self-awareness can do. Simply by knowing that the mental trajectory you're on will likely lead you to do something you don't wanna do (or lead you to not do something you do wanna do), you avoid going down said trajectory. With positive trajectories (feedback loops, the upward/downward spiral things), i guess it's a bit more complicated, but awareness of those can also be very valuable.
Ohhh now it made sense to me, because my demons seem to be both about things and people. But not self/tribe, and more about chaos/control, also regarding peoples thoughts/feeling about me (being right or wrong in some situation, competent or incompetent, useless etc) however I'm always in for conspiracies, fears of the unknown very strongly.
I relate to the point about Di so much. I feel bad usually when I'm not living up to my standards
This one is hard for me to grasp because they are saying "I hate myself because I'm not living to up other's standards, or I'm not living up to my standards. But i have never felt self-hatred. I don't resonate with this. INTJ here. But, I am pretty sure I have Savior Te because I am always the one eager to help and show how good I am at something. And I put pressure on myself to always be improving as a person, one way or another.
I have masculine Fi (I'm pretty sure). You don't want to cross me with my values. I'll start dropping the F-bomb...not out loud. Nobody will hear it but I'm saying it to myself and biting my tongue around others and fuming inside. My grandfather was an Assembly of God preacher and I used to satiate my need to be accepted by the family by saying "I will always do the right thing". And I knew that the "right thing" meant something different to me than to them but I felt that as long as it was the right thing for ME, then I was satisfied. It worked. I was always on their good side. I think my Grandmother knew that was my angle. She was pretty Fe dom I think and she was very encouraging of me having that mentality even though I think she KNEW I was going to decide for myself. In her own way, she respected that I would be the one to decide what was right or wrong. Also, I just didn't shove it in their face that I'm a total Agnostic, and a lesbian (which they eventually came to accept and love me anyway because they are good people). But anyway, I digress. So I don't get that whole "hate myself" thing.
Watching thinkers who “get” emotions makes my heart pound with happiness 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Hahaha! You know, even after all these videos and knowledge of how this entire typology thing works, I still don't know if I'm self-first or tribe-first - even this paragraph is somewhere in between introspection with Di and (at least in a roundabout way) asking with De. It's interesting as all hell, yet the more I learn the more ignorant I feel about it.
I think we all do have our 'natural' self. Some of our traits are shaped by our jobs and daily lives. If you listen closely, maybe you will find a side that is more comfortable. Example, I am more of self-first person though yes, tribe-first is something I have in me, but the self just feels more effortless and more fufilling etc. I would refer 'self' as belongings of yours, ie: spouse, family, friends vs 'tribe' ie: larger communities, groups, workplace, organisations etc.
@@ltpstan Yup. Still can't decide. I do move the pieces strategically for "me time", but enjoying when it's there it can be difficult because I'm always looking over my shoulder at the clock or for someone to call upon me for a task.
Dave here also talks about "what you do" versus "what you want to do" and that personality type is defined by the former. I am _definitely_ not comfortable with sassing anyone who isn't a family member or friend (even with some of them I prefer to keep up an appearance of public civility).
Baseline though? I seclude myself in a dark corner of the house and do things for my own entertainmemt - listening to music, refining ideas, and putting down video game numbers on spreadsheets mostly. In public, I'm certainly tribe first, and have absolutely no reservations about striking up conversations with randoms - usually comes in the form of "I like your style!" or "you should try this" or "It's good, but this and that; improve those and it's perfect".
I think it's true of almost anyone that we act in differently in the company of other people than on the internet with voiceless avatars. So, my own description of what I do may not even be accurate. I suppose I'm going to have to do an interview, if it doesn't cost too much.
@@AlastorTheNPDemonI understand where you are coming from. The dilemma is the baseline. I guess who ought to look in a holistic manner. Based on your text, you could be a _NTP? Just baseless guess. INFP here, pretty sure I am. 🤣
Maybe you're a double decider
@@ltpstan I've been thinking somewhere in the area of ENTJ (if so, a rather softcore type), INTJ (ugh... yeah, I know, everyone on the goddamned internet...), ENTP (same stack as INTJ, but opposite charges; I doubt this due to that the more I like something, the more I try to hide it), and possibly even a really peacock-heavy ESFP (Like Dave says, take what you think you are and flip it upside down! Sure...).
INTJ seems the most likely, but once again, there are a lot of goddamn people on the internet claiming to be this type and it makes me feel rather awkward to just put that label on myself without knowing for 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain I'm not INTP though - I don't take the same issue with social heirarchies as they do, and the gap between my sensing "facts" function and my intuitive "logic" function is an epic fucking chasm.
Everything is pointing to INTJ here, but it makes me feel like a cliché. Definitely going to need as many opinions on this as possible.
What you guys got to in the end with the Di’s and the M-Di’s wow yes. I hear a lot of them get into the loop of feeling meaningless. With me as a De, I find meaning every day by default because I’m responsible for the temperature of the outside of the world which requires me to show up every day.
From the description significance and validation are the same thing.
De's get significance from validation
De's are lacking significance and they use validation to get it.
Di's are lacking validation and they use significance to get it.
@Mr. 8-Bit Doggo Not sure if you can get rid of it :(
I felt the single decider imposition description thoroughly.-INFP-T
I’ve watched so many of your videos and understand a lot of the concepts here, but i still don’t know my type lol
join the club, my friend 😔
Thanks, great video. At some point can you do one explaining masculine/feminine observer functions? I understand M/F deciders but observers completely elude me.
I have the same doubt. I'm an Si/Ti and I know I have masculine Ti, because I push on me much more than I would push on others; but I can't figure out whether I have masculine or feminine Si.
I found this video *very* valuable.
Thank You!
I think and learn about so many different fields, physics, astronomy, music theory, but also about psychology, ergo, I think about humans a lot, about how they think, why we do what we do...I am a clinical psychologist...but I am not really happy helping people, but it gives meaning to my life, it gives me a field in which I go out and finally see whether my thinking/learning can be of use...that make me a decider or an observer?
1:56 - Shan literally looking at a graphic explaining why there's a 50/50 chance of having a male or female - "you'd think there'd be more females!" XD
It's a very sensing reaction ;)
Dave, you are actually correct. Good job! I am a biologist and yes, it is actually true. All fetuses start out female and depending on the hormones in the womb and other factors, either continue to develop as female or start to develop as males. Just look at the genitalia. The clitoris is the vestigial penis. The labia are what become the testes.
so can I understand it that deciders relate the source of their fear to other people and observers to things?
Bingo! You got it. Deciders are trying to avoid the pain of Tribe rejection (people). Observers are trying to avoid the fear of missing information (things).
I think I have savior masculine Fi...soooo true being hard on the self and just feeling that self loathing. I need that Te feedback to remind me, ok look at the great stuff you’ve done in life, you’re not a loser after all!
"Mr, Self destruct" ... Nine inch nails... Great song... thank you for the video
So if Ns are just avoiding S and Ts are just avoiding F, does that mean that NTs are just escapists avoiding our trauma 😅
I actually looked it up long ago. Sex is an evolutionary step in our past, of you go long back enough there technically only females (but not in modern mammal sense). Anyway this video is amazing, I have been wondering around the same thing for a while now, like what are the base "functions" and how the split happens.
This is the most important and interesting video on the channel, imo.
This was a nice change up from the usual videos, guys. The yellow Mormon infographic was 🔥 too! 😁
Could we be SF feminine to begin physically in the womb and psychologically by default and then deviate become physically masculine, and psychologically intuitive and/or thinking?
Does anyone have any advice on how to figure this out?
I have a hard time understanding whether I have Fi as a savior or Te (I believe I'm a single decider)... I've always had a hard time liking things or telling people what I like cause I felt like I'd have to explain myself (what I couldn't even explain to myself). I didn't want them to think those reasons are stupid. So I'd just never tell anyone what I like at all. I'd always just go with other people's reasons. But I also feel horrible when I have to do things that according to others there are good reasons for. I just don't feel like I have a personal reason to value those things (in other words, I often can't relate to people liking something yet I feel like I should because there are reasons why they like them). Savior Te or Fi?
The line going through my head (INTJ) is usually "I have to get along with these pesky people so that I can achieve this thing..."
Decider: acts a lot
(acts too fast and gets in trouble)
Observer: knows a lot
(has trouble acting on something)
Decider's homework in life is how to learn to observe the world and time as a whole
Observer's homework in life is how to learn to decide and just go for it for my reasons and values
so what about intps?
Also yeah this makes sense with the deciders=pain vs observers=fear dichotomy y’all got going on cuz I remember seeing that shit and being like oh hell yeah im afraid of a ton of shit....cuz, I mean, it seems pretty painful
What if I relate to De more yet often times too lazy to actually do something for others? Am I just a delusional Di or is it just because its natural that everyone craves some sort of validation from the tribe
Great video! I dig any lesson that reminds us we're all the same person.
Your first point is exactly what I've been thinking about with the animal brain vs the prefrontal cortex. Look at it evolutionarily. Did we start out forming patterns and puzzling logic to avoid pain? Fuck no, we ran around getting mauled by cheetahs for millenia. After lots of trial and error, our brains developed new ways to go about it.
I'm becoming more certain that it's impossible to separate Feeling from Thinking. If we believe that a savior couples with a demon, then Thinkers are of necessity running from their Feelings. Their reasons are guided by that weak ability of accessing emotion. Any scientist, philosopher, RUclips psychologist, etc. out there who talks about decisions without mentioning emotional logic knows nothing.
Observer functions work the same way. We all Sensorially experience life as it happens, but Intuitives run from it. Their pattern-forming is an imagination, a fake version of what it would be like to live in immediate experience. It's a literal fear of reality. So, any INTJ "mastermind" who disavows the material world is way, way off.
I actually agree with my ENTJ counter-type here... but in the opposite way. (INTP here)
I think we're ALL thinkers, and the Feelers are just depriving themselves of simply examining their feels and defining them. I feel like I can easily explain ANY "unexaplainable" Fi feeling if I can get the person to talk about it enough. (I might be wrong, but that's how I FEEL because I'm doing that CONSTANTLY myself. It feels like F types just aren't trying TO ME. I'm wrong.)
Anyway, yes, this is why T and F are linked and N and S, they kind of are the same, in a way, just starting at different ends and prioritizing different things. That's my intuition about it, after running through my thoughts, at least.
Thank you!
Isn't it 50:50 girls:boy? Bc the sperm determines the sex regardless?
So how can someone improve the De more ? I always have this thing that I realize I do something and I think its not good enough becuse someone I know did better or this or that happened. I also like that people apreciatte what I did but still at the end of the day I am the one that judges one thing. I am usually stubborn when someone tells me something. Is what Im describing a masculine Ti saviour or a demon ?
Really good analogy ☺
One could also see it as we are all males however the absence of the y also makes one female
Maybe simply, for observers, I want to figure things out so that I can see them the way a double observer does.
Deciders may be like, I want to figure myself out so that I can see people like a double decider does
Emotional intelligence has nothing to do with F. Everyone needs to equally work on it.
I hate choicesssss I hate too many options I hate deciding
Nooooooooo! Observer is an observer 😭😭😭
And this arm is the decider functions or the observer functions?
Wow, im new and unfamiliar so i thought i was observer, i guess thinking it sounds like perceiver, idk... but then i read the two sentences here and im like okay im the sentence on top there. And my eyes are going back and forth.. "is something off? It can't be, can it?". And then i see it, whoa. I see my first and last mbti letter in the decider category. 😄
Just so I understand correctly, when you say that "masculine Di's [tend to get stuck in loops of negativity]" "masculine" refers to the Di function? In other words, their second gender axis would actually be F based on the De function (e.g. MF Ti/Se …)?
correct
Thanks!
Why do you guys mention Tony Robbins a lot in your videos ?
I'm confused. Looking at their model statements, I totally resonated with the positive Di: "I'm badass cuz I'm Lex-Appeal", but then also with the negative De: "I suck cuz Lex-Appeal isnt as good as everyoneelse-appeal's opinion of how much I should not suck"
Anyone have any ideas?
Dav uses an “NF ANALOGY”.🎉 Great work Dav. Keep them coming for all of us nfs. Newsflash= Maybe we were all born as female Deciders and Infps, with Fi first and intuition first, then switched to male observers.😮
Egg: x. Sperm: x or y.
Yep, I do be that guy sometimes
Could you make a video on sleep last
Sounds there was one stock personality type we all evolved from. I wonder what natural selection will do next
If we trust the parts that were given, it seems that that "stock" type would be a standard ISFP (bonus points if she's female, lol)
@baby turtle Selection these days is far from 'natural' ;)
Of course we're all feelers.
What does the T do but defend the F?
Of course we're all deciders.
What does P do but defend the F?
F, Value, is the core of all things. Without value we would have no reason to do anything. With pure reason there is no motivation. Motivation is from Value.
You guys are nearing the philosophical implications of this.
This is what you get from simplify observers problems to fear of spiders ,heard of OCD ,poverty,autism,dyslexia,chronic procrastination,ADHD ,ill rather let my family judge me ,shame me,bra,wtf ,than end up poor cause of observing problems
totally agree
6:44
That one is very good
Can't wait to see it being ripped out on your channel.
@@Myure I'll dm you when I did it
I'm Di Savior and yes, i have nipples
2:05 No, the eggs in the female have no bearing on statistics. The sperm in the male is the predetermined sex, x=f y=m that is the end of the story
That’s real we are all females and become males. The vagina is actually an inside out penis.... literally learned that in nursing school and I used to work as an ob nurse. Good description haha and Jurassic Park haha accurate.
So mad 😤even comments on the wrong video 🤦♀️
It’s interesting because how you described staying a female or becoming a male is accurate when you consider the hormonal wash in the womb which turns the female brain and body into a male one 🤔
Is an INFP not introverted by default?
P O W E R - R E D - B U L L There’s a difference between MBTIs definition of extroversion/introversion and the traditionally understood definition. I’ve known Ixxx types who are extroverted according to the non MBTI definition
@@introvertedinfp Yeah that's true. I was curious waht you would say
P O W E R - R E D - B U L L Also it’s cause that was the most accurate way to brand myself on Instagram ;)
Reminds me of human beings vs human doings.
This sounds like shadows are real because that's actually what critical Fe parent is suppose to do to the Fi in terms of motivation to themselves or to convince other people to do the Te grunt work so that they can stay in their Fi+Ni inner world.
That is an intj shirt if there ever was one
What a great example of Dave using weird Ni analogies like when that one guy was explaining martial arts to fighting women. Lmfao
DAVE NO
No wonder people struggling to get their personality type ,especially when they see pain and fear from all ends not just from sh**ty people or being a sh**ty person but also from goals not being met ,poverty,what will happen ,perfectionism,job opportunities,spelling,their mission in life,career,of you heard of people rather dying than being poor ,or people dying from poverty ,you must know of such ,to such claims
Homologous chromosomes and sex is determined around 16 weeks, so essentially yes, LOL!!
I disagree ,I’m sure I’m over organising to not end up poor not really to avoid judgment
Istp disagree. Not a feeler.. I see.
Just because there are 3 x-chromosomes of 4 sex chromosomes total with potential to form combinations does not mean the probability for each x-chromosome to result in a female is 25% & therefore that zygotes are 75% likely to be female. And the two x-chromosomes from the mother cannot combine with each other (otherwise, she'd give birth to her own twin... How freaky would that be?) ... which is the only way a girl would be more 50% likely using a Mendelian-style/Punnett-square model of oversimplified theoretical statistics. But it's actually not exactly 50% -- more like 48.88%. The x chromosome from the mother is given. The odds of the sex depend on the father's contribution, which depends not only on the distribution of x vs y chromosomes his testis produce, but how fast they swim, what their role is (yes, there are different types of sperm), length of distance sperm need to travel, position of the uterus, and some complicated physics involving the x-chromosome being ever so slightly heavier than the y-chromosome.
BTW, I'm tired of hearing the feminist-propagated myth that all zygotes/embryos/fetuses start out female. It's just not true. Physiologically, all fetuses start out _sexually undifferentiated._ There's a difference! Even then, though zygotes & embryos are anatomically and hormonally indistinct, each still has a distinct karyotype from the moment of conception. Why we gotta act like we were first or are the default state in order to feel special or something?
Totally off topic, I know. Male nipples are just a vestigial genetic correlation from cells that never became differentiated. Okay, rant over. Carry on. 😅
good points!
word
Science: We start as female and then some develop as men. That's true. The thing about the nipples is actually true.
Please people think for yourself
You know Dave is correct, right? All human embryos start life as females. So good job there.
I'm not a fan of the idea that some cognitive functions were more fundamental or important than others. Sure, De is important for all people, that's why everyone has it. Humans are social animals after all. Tribal think is fundamental in human behaviour.
Humans have a sense of tribe value, yes, but they also have a sense of individuality. That's what drives us towards excellence in our own part. I think that the notion of a primary tribal nature (De) is simply a bias of two extraverted decider individuals failing to analyse their own system.
It's of course natural that Di-users often fail to fulfill their De needs because it's not their strong suit. That's exactly the same problem that De-users have with Di, inverted. They are constantly seeking internal validation from the tribe, an assurance that they could be happy with themselves, which is kind of illogical because it doesn't work like that.
I would like to question your game here. I can't come up with a reason as to why people would be inherently De-primary. Doesn't that kind of stand against the common Jungian perspective that is based on dichotomy and functional preference. I think it's needless to put up some weird models on "Di - diverting from the De-path". Both functions are surely valid parts of human cognition.
Science proved we all began as woman and then some fetus become men.
maybe the whole thing is like a paraphiletic order :
as Dave said in the ST video " we all have Fe , Te pepole just take a different approach to Fe"
then another thing that was established is that Fe is naturally more masculine than Te
so i would think that the majority of caveman probably were lead Fe
also another thing , i think that the Si/Ne axis developed secondarily afther the Se/Ni axis since the second one seems to work better , in a video talking about Si they said that pepole that have Si still have a hard time doing the sensory organizing .
i also think that a ape would have no use of Ne but would use very well Se to gather informations then it would make an abstract map in it's mind rather than a fisical map or organising the enviorment in a way in wich the fruit is disposable .
humans instead have Si so they Ne figured ways to make food grow were they needed it ,
and then they needed to fisically organise ( Si) the food because other pepole would value them , and this is how observers were born .
then afther that , there was less need of taking care of other pepole , so some pepole started to think wait now i can do what i want since i don't need help from others and others don't need my help , but why should i do something now? because it would be awsome if i did , but how do i do an awsome thing? i need to make it work in my terms (and then writhing was born) , and the first lead Ti was probably born in this way .
then other pepole probably diverged from the lead Ti and started doing thing s because either they liked them(Fi) or they just worked for everyone(Te) .
then some observers had their plans spoiled by the De users who made the food work for everyone and so they flipped and the gatherers were probably born this way .
so this is a idea that popped in my mind , i don't know if this is in any way shape or form accurate but i think might explain how we went from chimps who are completely probably all some variation of Fe/Se to us with or 512 types .
in short i think that Si organiser were the first different type who developed , then some of them probably flipped completely and became lead Ti , or at least savior Ti . and then the other deciding axis developed as a offshoots from lead Ti , and gatherers were probably the last one to survive since they needed somebody else to organise them .
I hope you have a list of tragic events of those your typing ,to claim Ixxp Exxj go through more pain and Ixxj Exp go through more fear ,and no diagrams are not facts.That Ixxp Exxj get killed and Ixxj and Exxj go to jail temporarily,thus they go through more pain ,wtf 😑🤦♂️
Here is your science bro ;) -> www.researchgate.net/publication/51189947_People-Things_and_Data-Ideas_Bipolar_Dimensions
In short, there is no such thing as Bipolar (one or another). People are not one or another. We all have a spectrum of interest in BOTH People & Things, Data & Ideas, etc. Hence, everyone is a decider and observer, everyone is a sensor and an intuitive. We just don't 'see' what we don't put our attention to.
Wow you deleted my comments ,
There are more females than males in the world though
Because women live longer. There are equal male and female being born. It is 50%.
She’s an INTP not ENTJ
FISA
#TeTalkOut2019
No. Just no. Look at the enneagram, guys. That's about ego motivations. And the motivations are about many different things, not necessarily other people. The MBTI is about methods people use, not motivations.
Well, this is not MBTI