Something I haven't seen talked about but which I think is worth mentioning is that the reason why I feel she can be confidently put in a higher ranking of winners (and players) is that we've seen her thrive from almost any position in the game that one can be in. So many things can happen that put people in various positions that are either super lucky (the "idol in the fries") or super unlucky (swap screwed), and that's always the case, but the difference with Rachel is that we saw these things happen to her of all sorts which (I think) shouldn't affect how she's viewed as a player (because they're entirely out of her intentional control, whether good or bad) and she was able to play so well no matter what happened. We saw her play from the bottom and from the top and everywhere in between and she always succeeded whenever it was possible. I add that last part because of course people might be left out of votes, but there is only so much a person can do to not let that happen. If she had played a game like Boston Rob this season where she forced everyone to let her know what was happening at all times, she would've been out right at the merge! To play the game she needed to play for her to win in this era and state of the game, she had to make decisions that led sometimes to things like getting blindsided to happen. The crux of this whole argument I think is the earlier point I made about how we saw her play from every angle and succeed. Not to knock Kim because she's one of the all time greats, but in One World we saw her start in a position of total power, and she played that in a legendary way and it ended up with a stellar win for the history books. Then in WaW she played from the bottom for the majority of her time there, especially toward the end, and she simply wasn't able to get the same hold on that side of the game as players like Rachel and more standard "bottom-playing" winners have been able to. It's a similar with Boston Rob and to an extent even Tony, where we see them play rather specific games whenever they play, and sometimes it works very well while other times it crashes and burns because they have some sort of slip and are unable to recover. Last point is one that I've heard a few people mention, but if Rachel played a game like any of those other past incredible winners from the first 40 seasons, she wouldn't have lasted to the end because of the mentality of players in this point in the new era. This is kind of like what (I think) Maryanne was saying about how being 6th best in the final 8 (or something like that) is ideal. If Rachel didn't get blindsided earlier in the game, perhaps she's seen as too big of a threat and is taken out. That's not to say that she got blindsided multiple times on purpose, but usually it ended up being because if she had played them differently she may have seemed like far too big of a presence and would have been taken out immediately after, and that seems to be something she herself clocked by the way she talked about her own game in exit interviews. This isn't to say that I necessarily agree that Rachel is the greatest of all time, but I think this is the whole case I was hoping more people would make, and I hope I was able to articulate well why I think her win should be extremely valued. It's so tough because there are far too many different criteria to be able to lock down one person being the best of all time, and even in any particular category there are so many variables, as Rob and Dom mentioned here, which lead to different answers based on different variables being prioritized, but what I will say is that my personal opinion is that of all 45 winners of the show, Rachel would have the best "simulation win-rate", where if she's put on any random newbie cast a million times with no prior info (even spanning all eras of the show), she wins a higher percentage of those simulations than any other winner of American Survivor (except maybe Todd, who I think is the most similar winner to Rachel). I just think so many other great winners have had incredible strategies and ways of playing, but which worked the best in the instances we saw and may not have worked in a million other ways the game could have shaken up, which I don't think is the case for Rachel's game and for Rachel as a player. Great video Rob lol I love RHAP!
I think Rachel is one of the most well rounded players and the fact that she did it alone made it more impressive. Comp wins, strategic mind and social game.
@ She never had a fully solid alliance or someone she worked with for majority of the game. The only person that was really by her side was Sue but she didn’t really add anything to the relationship but give her a solid vote. The underdog 5 only lasted kyle vote and then andy and teeny flip. And kyle vote was kinda a no brainer not really an alliance decision.
Indeed all around from top to bottom, using all tools, sitd, block a vote, idol play, sneaky ala tony, social awareness and good reaad.. didnt recd votes except idol that is void, a potential fire maker winner challenge to challenge beast (halll of fame) Take a bow.
She is great in all 3 aspects of the game: Socially, the most universally liked player ( the only other player was Caroline ). Amazing social/emotional awareness, to know how to approach each player, e.g Sue - Loyalty, Andy - Affirmation and lil brother energy, Genevieve - respectful rivalry, Sam - sibling energy. Clutch in challenges. Despite being on the bottom, everyone wanted to work with her strategically. Great strategic acumen, knew where she was exactly at all times in the tribe. Knew when to pull the I am a threat trigger, which was at the perfect spot to guarantee her winning at the end if she gets there. Rachel seems like the winner's version of Andrea. In terms of female winning game I rank her 4th after Kim, Nat A and Sarah. ( and yes Im strictly speaking about winning game not being the 4th best women ever ).
48:28 reminds me of an idea I had once in the early days of the show and would still love to see. Cast 18 people who are 1/2 of twins. Play the game out. When they’re done, bring in next season’s cast- their twins. Same tribe setups, maybe even the same challenges. See how the results differ. They film them so close now that they could pull it off, but of course it would require stunt casting and that might be a disaster with duds, and not sure how a “repeat season” plays with the casual audience.
I would rank her right beside mike holloway honestly and thats probably somewhere in the middle of my rankings but idk it’s about how you look at it, its easy to say they had to rely on immunity wins and an idol but the fact that they pulled it off against all odds in the first place is impressive af.
Rachel did not have a "better pulse" in fire making than you Dom. She just had alot more winner equity. You and wendall were tied in winner equity. And shes had multiple seasons to judge how the fire making challenge will increase or decrease the odds of you winning the game. Weve had every scenario at this point amd she knew...im already gonna win. No point to give myself an extra 5 or so percent to win.
The most challenging part of this interview is that it seems pretty evident that Dom doesn’t even really believe she’s actually the GOAT. I love a good hot take, but the hot take has gotta be based in reality and able to backed up with solid arguments. So many “hot takes” these days are people saying something controversial just for the sake of it/to get a reaction, which makes it hard to engage with in an honest way. It feels disingenuous to me. Rachel is clearly a very skilled player, but I think making claims like this actually hurts her legacy more than it helps it bc now people are actively pointing out and highlighting the flaws in her game that they otherwise wouldn’t need to bring as much attention to.
Dom, I'm so glad you brought up the shot in the dark right away. I felt the same way. I thought it was a mob boss Godfather move to me. Thought it was brilliant. I see you Survived the party, Rob 🤭
I've heard of people saying Andy for 50, others saying Genevieve and Sol. Why not Rachel. Rachel is the real second go round winner threat. She goes into a returnee season with dee and Maryanne and Jam Jam, I think Rachel is still the one of the group to squeeze through a second time. I hope we find out someday, a "New Era All Stars" cast is starting to have some real legs.
@anthonyuram2017 no winners in season 50? Speculation or Rumor? I heard everyone is uo for grabs it very well could be an actual Ledends season, and many winners could be there.
Per Jeff from EW in November. Sounds pretty much like Cambodia 2.0. He’s also said sometbing about wanting the fans involved somehow. “We want players who are also excited to be on it,” Probst explains. “This is not Winners at War. It doesn't mean we don't want players who are going to play hard. Of course we do. But it means we're also big-picture trying to celebrate 25 years, and that means joyful players who are in a good mood and want to play. We’re not looking for disgruntled players looking to settle a score. We're looking for players who want a second chance, who have something to prove to themselves.” My hope is for all from 41 and up, no winners.
Rachels win is right in the middle. She had some good strategy with the sitd play. And winning key immunities and having an idol based on the luck Auction fry idol. She had great reads but had to win immunity to survive. She played her advantages far better than previous seasons. But shes not really all that great. Just cuz shes an archetype thats rootable doesnt mean shes the best of all time lol.
Rachel got lucky with immunity idol and Sol saving her. She is good at puzzles and smart using her brains and is strategic. First asian woman winner 👏. Congrats👍🤑
I disagree with doms take about Rachel having a very strong beginning socially bc in the first episode when Andy was a mess and needed someone to talk to she said in confessional she was “absolutely not gonna meet up with Andy early in the mornings” and then when he expected her to be there for him she was argumentative and her relationship with Andy seemed to sour. I believe a socially good player would have handled Andy better.
I think when you got to the AI have them play 100 times with players that never played before....let's not pick 1. It's Chris (9)Kim spradlin Michelle Fitzgerald, and Rachel....but don't forget the 2s who got screwed....Russel hantz, the milf who lost to Ben, Aubrey and the guy who didn't get to tribal Jessie....and Dominique abote would be the runner up on this
She's one of the worst winners. She's a challenge beast who never knew what was going on. She won the right challenges at the right time. And had some advantages. But wasn't a well around player at all
Man, that's a wild take. Nobody on this season was 100% in on anything, and she made moves that nobody could have anticipated. She's definitely in the top ten if not higher.
Top ten or higher is crazy lol. She was a very medium winner. She got left out strategically in 3 or 4 rounds. She had a huge target and without advantages or challenges she would have been voted out.
@@robertmercer3212Which is exactly why she's an amazing winner. She should have been gone ages ago. Survivor isn't just plotting and blindsiding and always being in on everything. People do that to get threats out and make other strategic moves. Weaker players are often involved to insulate themselves from being ousted (and to be used as goats, should they make it to FTC.) The very fact that we didn't hear a single person strongly consider that Rachel even COULD have an idol for Operation Italy shows that she outwitted an otherwise incredible plan. So much for "strategy."
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Something I haven't seen talked about but which I think is worth mentioning is that the reason why I feel she can be confidently put in a higher ranking of winners (and players) is that we've seen her thrive from almost any position in the game that one can be in. So many things can happen that put people in various positions that are either super lucky (the "idol in the fries") or super unlucky (swap screwed), and that's always the case, but the difference with Rachel is that we saw these things happen to her of all sorts which (I think) shouldn't affect how she's viewed as a player (because they're entirely out of her intentional control, whether good or bad) and she was able to play so well no matter what happened. We saw her play from the bottom and from the top and everywhere in between and she always succeeded whenever it was possible. I add that last part because of course people might be left out of votes, but there is only so much a person can do to not let that happen. If she had played a game like Boston Rob this season where she forced everyone to let her know what was happening at all times, she would've been out right at the merge! To play the game she needed to play for her to win in this era and state of the game, she had to make decisions that led sometimes to things like getting blindsided to happen.
The crux of this whole argument I think is the earlier point I made about how we saw her play from every angle and succeed. Not to knock Kim because she's one of the all time greats, but in One World we saw her start in a position of total power, and she played that in a legendary way and it ended up with a stellar win for the history books. Then in WaW she played from the bottom for the majority of her time there, especially toward the end, and she simply wasn't able to get the same hold on that side of the game as players like Rachel and more standard "bottom-playing" winners have been able to. It's a similar with Boston Rob and to an extent even Tony, where we see them play rather specific games whenever they play, and sometimes it works very well while other times it crashes and burns because they have some sort of slip and are unable to recover.
Last point is one that I've heard a few people mention, but if Rachel played a game like any of those other past incredible winners from the first 40 seasons, she wouldn't have lasted to the end because of the mentality of players in this point in the new era. This is kind of like what (I think) Maryanne was saying about how being 6th best in the final 8 (or something like that) is ideal. If Rachel didn't get blindsided earlier in the game, perhaps she's seen as too big of a threat and is taken out. That's not to say that she got blindsided multiple times on purpose, but usually it ended up being because if she had played them differently she may have seemed like far too big of a presence and would have been taken out immediately after, and that seems to be something she herself clocked by the way she talked about her own game in exit interviews.
This isn't to say that I necessarily agree that Rachel is the greatest of all time, but I think this is the whole case I was hoping more people would make, and I hope I was able to articulate well why I think her win should be extremely valued. It's so tough because there are far too many different criteria to be able to lock down one person being the best of all time, and even in any particular category there are so many variables, as Rob and Dom mentioned here, which lead to different answers based on different variables being prioritized, but what I will say is that my personal opinion is that of all 45 winners of the show, Rachel would have the best "simulation win-rate", where if she's put on any random newbie cast a million times with no prior info (even spanning all eras of the show), she wins a higher percentage of those simulations than any other winner of American Survivor (except maybe Todd, who I think is the most similar winner to Rachel). I just think so many other great winners have had incredible strategies and ways of playing, but which worked the best in the instances we saw and may not have worked in a million other ways the game could have shaken up, which I don't think is the case for Rachel's game and for Rachel as a player. Great video Rob lol I love RHAP!
gonna give your comment a like for effort but i am NOT reading all that 😭😭🙏
you're right
I think Rachel is one of the most well rounded players and the fact that she did it alone made it more impressive. Comp wins, strategic mind and social game.
What do you mean did it alone?
@ She never had a fully solid alliance or someone she worked with for majority of the game. The only person that was really by her side was Sue but she didn’t really add anything to the relationship but give her a solid vote. The underdog 5 only lasted kyle vote and then andy and teeny flip. And kyle vote was kinda a no brainer not really an alliance decision.
Indeed all around from top to bottom, using all tools, sitd, block a vote, idol play, sneaky ala tony, social awareness and good reaad.. didnt recd votes except idol that is void, a potential fire maker winner challenge to challenge beast (halll of fame)
Take a bow.
This was great. Thanks a lot to Dom for coming on for this. I'd love to see more post season interviews with past players giving their thoughts.
rachel is just astronomical & sheer brilliance caliber of a winner lets goooooooooooo
She is great in all 3 aspects of the game:
Socially, the most universally liked player ( the only other player was Caroline ). Amazing social/emotional awareness, to know how to approach each player, e.g Sue - Loyalty, Andy - Affirmation and lil brother energy, Genevieve - respectful rivalry, Sam - sibling energy.
Clutch in challenges.
Despite being on the bottom, everyone wanted to work with her strategically. Great strategic acumen, knew where she was exactly at all times in the tribe. Knew when to pull the I am a threat trigger, which was at the perfect spot to guarantee her winning at the end if she gets there.
Rachel seems like the winner's version of Andrea.
In terms of female winning game I rank her 4th after Kim, Nat A and Sarah. ( and yes Im strictly speaking about winning game not being the 4th best women ever ).
Yay!!! Can’t wait to hear from Dom!!!
48:28 reminds me of an idea I had once in the early days of the show and would still love to see.
Cast 18 people who are 1/2 of twins. Play the game out. When they’re done, bring in next season’s cast- their twins. Same tribe setups, maybe even the same challenges. See how the results differ.
They film them so close now that they could pull it off, but of course it would require stunt casting and that might be a disaster with duds, and not sure how a “repeat season” plays with the casual audience.
I would rank her right beside mike holloway honestly and thats probably somewhere in the middle of my rankings but idk it’s about how you look at it, its easy to say they had to rely on immunity wins and an idol but the fact that they pulled it off against all odds in the first place is impressive af.
Rachel did not have a "better pulse" in fire making than you Dom. She just had alot more winner equity. You and wendall were tied in winner equity. And shes had multiple seasons to judge how the fire making challenge will increase or decrease the odds of you winning the game. Weve had every scenario at this point amd she knew...im already gonna win. No point to give myself an extra 5 or so percent to win.
The most challenging part of this interview is that it seems pretty evident that Dom doesn’t even really believe she’s actually the GOAT.
I love a good hot take, but the hot take has gotta be based in reality and able to backed up with solid arguments. So many “hot takes” these days are people saying something controversial just for the sake of it/to get a reaction, which makes it hard to engage with in an honest way. It feels disingenuous to me.
Rachel is clearly a very skilled player, but I think making claims like this actually hurts her legacy more than it helps it bc now people are actively pointing out and highlighting the flaws in her game that they otherwise wouldn’t need to bring as much attention to.
Dom, I'm so glad you brought up the shot in the dark right away. I felt the same way. I thought it was a mob boss Godfather move to me. Thought it was brilliant.
I see you Survived the party, Rob 🤭
I've heard of people saying Andy for 50, others saying Genevieve and Sol. Why not Rachel. Rachel is the real second go round winner threat. She goes into a returnee season with dee and Maryanne and Jam Jam, I think Rachel is still the one of the group to squeeze through a second time. I hope we find out someday, a "New Era All Stars" cast is starting to have some real legs.
I’m not sure if they’ll bring back any winners for that one. I’d guess they do more returning seasons in the 50s
There should be no winners on 50.
@anthonyuram2017 no winners in season 50? Speculation or Rumor? I heard everyone is uo for grabs it very well could be an actual Ledends season, and many winners could be there.
Per Jeff from EW in November. Sounds pretty much like Cambodia 2.0. He’s also said sometbing about wanting the fans involved somehow.
“We want players who are also excited to be on it,” Probst explains. “This is not Winners at War. It doesn't mean we don't want players who are going to play hard. Of course we do. But it means we're also big-picture trying to celebrate 25 years, and that means joyful players who are in a good mood and want to play. We’re not looking for disgruntled players looking to settle a score. We're looking for players who want a second chance, who have something to prove to themselves.”
My hope is for all from 41 and up, no winners.
Rachels win is right in the middle. She had some good strategy with the sitd play. And winning key immunities and having an idol based on the luck Auction fry idol. She had great reads but had to win immunity to survive. She played her advantages far better than previous seasons. But shes not really all that great. Just cuz shes an archetype thats rootable doesnt mean shes the best of all time lol.
Rachel got lucky with immunity idol and Sol saving her. She is good at puzzles and smart using her brains and is strategic. First asian woman winner 👏. Congrats👍🤑
I thought Rob was going to go full Julie Chen-Moonves at the end there... so close to saying "Love one another." 🤣
I disagree with doms take about Rachel having a very strong beginning socially bc in the first episode when Andy was a mess and needed someone to talk to she said in confessional she was “absolutely not gonna meet up with Andy early in the mornings” and then when he expected her to be there for him she was argumentative and her relationship with Andy seemed to sour. I believe a socially good player would have handled Andy better.
It would have been ridiculously stupid of Racheal to go off sneakily with Andy to the beach and make herself a target. You’re mad she has a brain?
Yeah. We can’t handle this. The title alone had my blood boiling. 😂
Not having the whole week of Christmas off? Oh, America 😭
I think when you got to the AI have them play 100 times with players that never played before....let's not pick 1. It's Chris (9)Kim spradlin Michelle Fitzgerald, and Rachel....but don't forget the 2s who got screwed....Russel hantz, the milf who lost to Ben, Aubrey and the guy who didn't get to tribal Jessie....and Dominique abote would be the runner up on this
The whole reason this podcast happened was because Dom said Rachel was "The best player of all time". And their was no reason why that is true lol.
I love Dom. Greatest to never win. ❤️ But his take is absolutely ridiculous. Lol
CMON RACHEL IS THE GOAT 🐐 I will never agree with Rachel underminers
My god! Get to the punch line
Dom is a great player but i think he’s lost his marbles if he thinks her 47 game was the greatest ever played
Rachel is def one of my fav players easily
Yes!! Rachel is the GOAT!!!
A bit biased but we can agree lol since dom knows her
Of the new era. Yes. And you leave Kim and the deer out of your mouth Dom. Kidding. Not.
Nah, she's definitely far and away better than most of the 30s winners as well. Besides maybe Jeremy.
She's one of the worst winners. She's a challenge beast who never knew what was going on. She won the right challenges at the right time. And had some advantages. But wasn't a well around player at all
Man, that's a wild take. Nobody on this season was 100% in on anything, and she made moves that nobody could have anticipated. She's definitely in the top ten if not higher.
Top ten or higher is crazy lol. She was a very medium winner. She got left out strategically in 3 or 4 rounds. She had a huge target and without advantages or challenges she would have been voted out.
She didn't know what was going on because people plotted to get her out 🤷 And YET she still won, with 6 votes in her favor.
@@robertmercer3212Which is exactly why she's an amazing winner. She should have been gone ages ago.
Survivor isn't just plotting and blindsiding and always being in on everything. People do that to get threats out and make other strategic moves. Weaker players are often involved to insulate themselves from being ousted (and to be used as goats, should they make it to FTC.)
The very fact that we didn't hear a single person strongly consider that Rachel even COULD have an idol for Operation Italy shows that she outwitted an otherwise incredible plan. So much for "strategy."
@@Xiatter I don't know exactly what happened but I believe you're talking about the round after operation Italy?
😊
This season felt bottom tier and I feel like putting Rachel in the top rankings with Tony Sandra and Kim would be hard.
You don’t think of one world as a bottom tier season? I think it’s decent but I know that’s a common opinion. But Kim is still one of the best.
This is a crazy take. This season had some of the highest ratings of all time, including survivor's highest rated episode ever.