Mike this is so spot on. I would love to share my full story of working at a mega church and how I left that environment when it became clear that it was more a corporate cult than the hands and feet of Jesus, but it would be too long to share on here. I will say though, I visited my therapist after I quit my job and when I had finished telling her everything that I had been through, she said, "Spiritually abusive cultures like that don't have the mindset of 'We want you to be with us.' Their mindset is 'We need you to be like us.'" That statement will stick with me for the rest of my life, because I think it really defines this "system" that you're talking about. Modern corporate church structures (or the Evangelical Industrial Complex as some like to call it) are not truly about followers of Jesus communing together in our differences and loving one another. They're about creating a group think mindset that elevates a singular leader or vision and everything must die on the altar of that vision. All individuality must be surrendered for the survival of the machine. In this environment people eventually cease to truly image God in their own unique ways because they've been manipulated and coerced into imaging the machine, and it's honestly scary. If any group of Christians needs you to be like them in order to have genuine love and fellowship, then they are not reflecting the Church that Jesus bled and died for. I always think about how Jesus had Matthew, a tax collector for Rome, and Simon, a zealot, in His close group of disciples. These two men would have been mortal enemies out in the world, with Matthew being seen as a traitor to the Jewish people and Simon the zealot desiring to overthrow the entire Roman government. Yet Jesus wanted them both to follow Him, and in His leadership of love they were able to have fellowship with one another despite their differences. American churches have drifted far away from this model in the pursuit of power, influence, money, and control, and as a result they're abusing and hurting people rather than shepherding them.
I've been in the background watching you for a few years now, occasionally commenting on your FB posts. I have no clue how you showed up on my feed but the things you've said are things that my heart has been thinking, saying, feeling for a long time. Today I understand why God led me to your ministry. Thanks so much for being obedient.
When I became a christian many years ago it wasn't long before things within the system just seemed wrong. As a new believer it seemed imperative that I be "plugged into" a spot where I could be "used by God" within the "system". I always felt there was something amiss and felt like I was a rebellious believer trying to create division within the eatablishment. I believe God had been trying to tell me something as I look back now!
I've been thrown out of numerous churches here in Omaha in one way or another over my Biblical studies, praying for people, counseling the sick, or just plain trying to be obedient to the Word. I know exactly how you feel. I even once got accused of trying to get sexual with a woman I didn't even know after offering to pray a James 5:14-16 prayer for her heart problems. I will NOT stop going forth in the name of the Lord for ANYBODY!!!! I'm planning on doing a video and sharing my personal experiences with various churches here and yes, I WILL be naming names.
Just seeing this now. I’ve had different accusations against me but in the same evil spirit. It’s sad that the greatest persecution we suffer is not from “the world” but from “the system” mentioned in the video comprised of modern day pharisees.
We have just recently made the decision to come out of the church system. While we attended small churches, (50 or less), it got to where it seemed fake. It’s hard to put into words. One church where I was just helping out for awhile with playing piano and leading the singing, the pastor began teaching things that are NOT in the Bible but Islamic. Not sure where he came up with some of his stuff. The church where we are members for the last 8 years and attended (except when called to help out somewhere else) that pastor began teaching nonsense like Jesus is our personal assistant. We can give him a message to take to our loved ones in heaven. Plus a bunch of other ridiculous nonsense. They think mean preaching is good preaching. Think Tony Hutson type screaming. When my 13 and 11 year olds keep leaning over to tell me something the preacher said isn’t in the Bible or I have to tell them the same, we have a problem. And if I don’t want my kids to lie, then how much harder is it to teach them that when the pastor is preaching lies? I think God has begun calling people out who are really following Him and willing to break away from what we have been brainwashed with which isn’t biblical.
As always Mike, this ability God has given you to disclose the complexity and put it in understandable words.. is so relieving every time I hear you, to realize the way I see or feel about the church Is not heretical.. thank you again!!!!
Thank you for the language & articulation Mike. What you described is something I've felt for YEARS, but couldn't put my finger on it and didn't have the language to describe it!!!! Sigh, I feel validated just from watching your video knowing that I'm not the only one noticed it. Thanks for posting.👍🏼
Mike…thank you. It’s just incredible how you found the right words to describe this. Without blaming people and from a discerning stance on what dynamics are at play. Much of what you are saying is what I’ve tried to find words for to communicate to people around me about this…it feels like a big sigh of relief to hear someone else say it! Thanks for being bold and standing up for what the Spirit is inviting the Body into. I’m in! (even though for now it kinda looks like many of us are ‘out’…🙄) I’ll say it again: I’m in!
i had to review this video, and shared it with a friend. we live in omaha nebraska, and this system is literally everywhere. but changing it? nothing we can do when the so called preachers are in control of it. the only thing that can be done is to remove oneself from it, and do something somewhere else.
Very articulate and true! Like a voice crying in the wilderness, you are bringing to the surface what most of us intuitively know, but regard as too uncomfortable to bring up. I'm with you Mike... keep pulling out, just like Morpheus ... the 'splinter in our minds',
Of the three churches I've been highly involved in none were systems of oppression. I often found that people want to do the bear minimum to be a christian.. which in their mind was go to Sunday church. They just want a ticket to heaven and go about their lives. Those of us who wanted something more would join small groups, get to know each other and pursue God together. A lot of legit Christians I know don't get fulfilled on Sunday so they seek it elsewhere. Sunday's can be better... but it isn't the full answer to living a life with Jesus.
Thank you Mike for being a Trailblazer in this arena! When I hear you speak I hear truth and I can feel your heart behind your words. You don't want to tear anyone down (quite refreshing this day and age), rather you want to destroy the System as a whole and unplug "walking with God" from the 'Matrix of Man' and Release it into the Freedom of the Holy Spirit, which was God's Intention in the first place. For me, I grew up in a very strict hurch that left me afraid of God and never taught about his heart of deep love for me. I woke up from that only to be later kicked out of another church for merely having traveled to visit another church outside their Denomination and Understanding. Still SMH over that one...🙄 Now I'm walking with you through your Ashes Mentorship Group to deconstruct and walk forward in Truth and Love with Confidence.🔥 The System needs to go and I'm ready to roll with ya! Stay Inquisitive and Stay Strong! On behalf of ALL the future free 'systemites', Thank You, Thank You, Thank you!! 🤗
its been going around... alot of people are discovering this system. i ran into it in many churches right here in omaha nebraska, but for the longest time, couldnt put my finger on what i was picking up on. so yes, it is a system, and i think people hang onto it for the need to belong, but it clearly doesnt work, and it does eventually become toxic over time. a friend and i left the church system a couple years ago just when the scaredemic started. now, church is where i work. no where else to go.
This is SO true. The copy paste production of spectators is so a thing.. Rarely anyone I’ve seen in church ever does the work to actually DO the work of Jesus and love and understand people, intentionally stepping out of their comfort zones into areas that Jesus wants us to go.. I could not stay in these systems, but I want to be more like Jesus
I literally told my friend the other day that the church felt more like a business corporation than anything. Was really interesting to hear you mention that as well. I've been feeling that something has been up for awhile but wasn't quite sure what it was. Really good to hear your thoughts on this. We need to start following God and not feed into this system much longer. Not all churches are like this, though majority are. I think some are changing their tune but there are still remnants of this system floating around, possibly because it's all that we've known to do for so long.
I have held similar views for quite a few years. Changing the exist "structure" has not born any fruit. Creating the reforms within and lovingly walking them out has been helpful to me. For one, having a deep conviction regarding ordinary people and their potential for extraordinary living draws people into the very thing their hearts are yearning for. Another is choosing the intimate life of non-spectator empowerment keeps me praying for opportunities on a daily basis. The complexities can be simplified with a heart to love the people in our closest spheres of influence. Talk on levels relevant to the spiritual experience of those we encounter. It takes self-control, but pays off in greater fruit. 'Nuff for now,
You nailed it. Realise the same things about the system. That is why no one complains about issues like pagan feasts such as Christmas, Easter , use of crosses, names of our Saviour and Elohiym. Anyway the name is YAHUSHUA not Jesus( which is only about 500 years old) Yahuah not God or LORD
Wow wow. So powerful. Didn't Jesus himself say, "I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands"? This is what the process of deconstruction feels like to me. Frankly, I've been on this journey and had no idea that word even existed until recently. haha. I've been in this place where the Lord was like, the Truth of the Gospel has become lost/convoluted because of centuries of man-made systems, traditions and ideals. Almost like the game of telephone. What was the original message? That's SO important.
Thank you for going here. As a woman I learned even strict adherence didn’t guarantee anything and am now in the wilderness of trying to live both/and in the church which is sometimes….. difficult.
I grew up a strict Roman Catholic. I fell out with the institution of the church. Patriarchy and adherence to historic rites became toxic to the body of the church, which is why the institution of the church is losing members.
I was in this system for over a decade. I was pushed out because I took a stand for a liberal theological position of inclusivity and acceptance. I also went outside the “box” when it came to worship and ministry. Finally, I got pushed out in what became a conservative purge. The system is very real and it will eat its own if allowed to continue. I have been deconstructing for many years and struggle with religious PTSD due to the abuse I endured both in the system and after being pushed out.
Are you saying you pushed for acceptance of sin? Things the Bible clearly teaches against? Be more specific. Coming out of the system should have nothing to do with DEI.
@@ritadyer9295 I left because I sincerely followed Jesus' teaching of accepting all and the theological position of radical inclusive love. It has nothing to do with DEI. I also recognize that the Bible NEVER addresses same sex relationships in the way we understand them today. It addresses rape, humiliation and power imbalances as well as exploitational relationships. The "clobber passges" do not say what you think they say.
They said for having liberal theology. So that means a more learned and less constricted interpretation of scripture (like Jesus). Why do you hold evil suspicions against another? You err by not reading what they are saying with an unbiased and non-judgement lens. God bless you. 💛
Hi Mike! Great talk thanks. There are some good points you raise. And it makes me think because I am in that system and still love it, work for it, and feel called for it. Are you implying there should not be an official structure like the church? Do you feel the “gatekeeper” should all be layman? Or should there be no full time pastors? I am a Young Adults pastor and try my best to empower my students and other congregation to not be spectator but partakers. But I studied Theology, and from a young age felt a calling to be a pastor and to take care of people. First Spiritually, then Emotionally then Physically. Am I allowed to receive a pay-check from my church for doing that or should I do some other job because we are just taking other people’s money for ourself? I did Bssm for 3 years and for me it was a massive empowering experience. Especially as a foreigner. The message I got was that all of us are called to do the stuff!! It’s more about a relationship with Jesus than church, I get that. But I think our church is genuinely trying to empower people to be who God called them to be and not just get their money. And then what do you think about corporate worship? Where is the place for that? If you could make a video one day of explaining the ideal that you see in the Bible, I would really like that. Thanks for being honest and real. I like your talks
Look at the way the early church met 1 Cor. 14:26, Acts and Eph: 4. The body is to be very interactive with one another. Not meant for 1 person to stand on a stage and give a sermon. Most of what is shared, by research, is forgotten within 8 hours.
Thanks Mike, Well articulated. There is a book named ‘pagan christianity’ which explains where a lot of the traditions in (churches as we know it) comes from. Best, Michael vNiekerk
Thanks! I always appreciate the integrity you put in the way you comunicate. I would call that system pharisianism, I think it's not just a christian swear word and it's more than some specific theologic point (like salvation by work).
When we minister to people whether it be one on one or on stage, we need to leave them feeling like they just had a meeting with Jesus. Also, if each service that's being held doesn't have a true move of the Holy Spirit and manifestation of it's power, then they're doing something seriously wrong. Before my pastor died last September he'd seen hundreds of miracles and thousands upon thousands of healings. But nobody sees that in todays "apostate" church.....ever....
Mike this is so spot on. I would love to share my full story of working at a mega church and how I left that environment when it became clear that it was more a corporate cult than the hands and feet of Jesus, but it would be too long to share on here. I will say though, I visited my therapist after I quit my job and when I had finished telling her everything that I had been through, she said, "Spiritually abusive cultures like that don't have the mindset of 'We want you to be with us.' Their mindset is 'We need you to be like us.'" That statement will stick with me for the rest of my life, because I think it really defines this "system" that you're talking about.
Modern corporate church structures (or the Evangelical Industrial Complex as some like to call it) are not truly about followers of Jesus communing together in our differences and loving one another. They're about creating a group think mindset that elevates a singular leader or vision and everything must die on the altar of that vision. All individuality must be surrendered for the survival of the machine. In this environment people eventually cease to truly image God in their own unique ways because they've been manipulated and coerced into imaging the machine, and it's honestly scary. If any group of Christians needs you to be like them in order to have genuine love and fellowship, then they are not reflecting the Church that Jesus bled and died for.
I always think about how Jesus had Matthew, a tax collector for Rome, and Simon, a zealot, in His close group of disciples. These two men would have been mortal enemies out in the world, with Matthew being seen as a traitor to the Jewish people and Simon the zealot desiring to overthrow the entire Roman government. Yet Jesus wanted them both to follow Him, and in His leadership of love they were able to have fellowship with one another despite their differences. American churches have drifted far away from this model in the pursuit of power, influence, money, and control, and as a result they're abusing and hurting people rather than shepherding them.
Thank you for sharing this. It is pure honesty and that is powerful.
I've been in the background watching you for a few years now, occasionally commenting on your FB posts. I have no clue how you showed up on my feed but the things you've said are things that my heart has been thinking, saying, feeling for a long time. Today I understand why God led me to your ministry. Thanks so much for being obedient.
Wow! That's so cool. Thank you for sharing!
50 yrs in church history you. Are barking up the right tree contact me I will send reference material
When I became a christian many years ago it wasn't long before things within the system just seemed wrong. As a new believer it seemed imperative that I be "plugged into" a spot where I could be "used by God" within the "system". I always felt there was something amiss and felt like I was a rebellious believer trying to create division within the eatablishment. I believe God had been trying to tell me something as I look back now!
I've been thrown out of numerous churches here in Omaha in one way or another over my Biblical studies, praying for people, counseling the sick, or just plain trying to be obedient to the Word. I know exactly how you feel. I even once got accused of trying to get sexual with a woman I didn't even know after offering to pray a James 5:14-16 prayer for her heart problems. I will NOT stop going forth in the name of the Lord for ANYBODY!!!! I'm planning on doing a video and sharing my personal experiences with various churches here and yes, I WILL be naming names.
Just seeing this now. I’ve had different accusations against me but in the same evil spirit.
It’s sad that the greatest persecution we suffer is not from “the world” but from “the system” mentioned in the video comprised of modern day pharisees.
We have just recently made the decision to come out of the church system. While we attended small churches, (50 or less), it got to where it seemed fake. It’s hard to put into words. One church where I was just helping out for awhile with playing piano and leading the singing, the pastor began teaching things that are NOT in the Bible but Islamic. Not sure where he came up with some of his stuff.
The church where we are members for the last 8 years and attended (except when called to help out somewhere else) that pastor began teaching nonsense like Jesus is our personal assistant. We can give him a message to take to our loved ones in heaven. Plus a bunch of other ridiculous nonsense. They think mean preaching is good preaching. Think Tony Hutson type screaming.
When my 13 and 11 year olds keep leaning over to tell me something the preacher said isn’t in the Bible or I have to tell them the same, we have a problem. And if I don’t want my kids to lie, then how much harder is it to teach them that when the pastor is preaching lies?
I think God has begun calling people out who are really following Him and willing to break away from what we have been brainwashed with which isn’t biblical.
As always Mike, this ability God has given you to disclose the complexity and put it in understandable words.. is so relieving every time I hear you, to realize the way I see or feel about the church Is not heretical.. thank you again!!!!
I'm so glad! Thank you for the feedback, Leo! :)
Once again you have reached into my heart and put words to what I can't. THANK YOU!
Thank you for the language & articulation Mike. What you described is something I've felt for YEARS, but couldn't put my finger on it and didn't have the language to describe it!!!! Sigh, I feel validated just from watching your video knowing that I'm not the only one noticed it.
Thanks for posting.👍🏼
You're welcome! You're definitely not alone. Thank you for your comment.
Mike…thank you. It’s just incredible how you found the right words to describe this. Without blaming people and from a discerning stance on what dynamics are at play. Much of what you are saying is what I’ve tried to find words for to communicate to people around me about this…it feels like a big sigh of relief to hear someone else say it! Thanks for being bold and standing up for what the Spirit is inviting the Body into. I’m in! (even though for now it kinda looks like many of us are ‘out’…🙄) I’ll say it again: I’m in!
Thank you, Erica! That's very encouraging. I appreciate you saying that.
i had to review this video, and shared it with a friend. we live in omaha nebraska, and this system is literally everywhere. but changing it? nothing we can do when the so called preachers are in control of it. the only thing that can be done is to remove oneself from it, and do something somewhere else.
You expressed the issue soooo well.
Very articulate and true! Like a voice crying in the wilderness, you are bringing to the surface what most of us intuitively know, but regard as too uncomfortable to bring up. I'm with you Mike... keep pulling out, just like Morpheus ... the 'splinter in our minds',
Thank you, Jeff! I'm so glad!
Of the three churches I've been highly involved in none were systems of oppression. I often found that people want to do the bear minimum to be a christian.. which in their mind was go to Sunday church. They just want a ticket to heaven and go about their lives. Those of us who wanted something more would join small groups, get to know each other and pursue God together. A lot of legit Christians I know don't get fulfilled on Sunday so they seek it elsewhere. Sunday's can be better... but it isn't the full answer to living a life with Jesus.
Thank you Mike for being a Trailblazer in this arena! When I hear you speak I hear truth and I can feel your heart behind your words. You don't want to tear anyone down (quite refreshing this day and age), rather you want to destroy the System as a whole and unplug "walking with God" from the 'Matrix of Man' and Release it into the Freedom of the Holy Spirit, which was God's Intention in the first place.
For me, I grew up in a very strict hurch that left me afraid of God and never taught about his heart of deep love for me. I woke up from that only to be later kicked out of another church for merely having traveled to visit another church outside their Denomination and Understanding.
Still SMH over that one...🙄
Now I'm walking with you through your Ashes Mentorship Group to deconstruct and walk forward in Truth and Love with Confidence.🔥
The System needs to go and I'm ready to roll with ya! Stay Inquisitive and Stay Strong! On behalf of ALL the future free 'systemites', Thank You, Thank You, Thank you!! 🤗
Thanks, Pam!! Let's go! :)
its been going around... alot of people are discovering this system. i ran into it in many churches right here in omaha nebraska, but for the longest time, couldnt put my finger on what i was picking up on. so yes, it is a system, and i think people hang onto it for the need to belong, but it clearly doesnt work, and it does eventually become toxic over time. a friend and i left the church system a couple years ago just when the scaredemic started. now, church is where i work. no where else to go.
This is SO true. The copy paste production of spectators is so a thing.. Rarely anyone I’ve seen in church ever does the work to actually DO the work of Jesus and love and understand people, intentionally stepping out of their comfort zones into areas that Jesus wants us to go.. I could not stay in these systems, but I want to be more like Jesus
Great work. Empowered by God
I literally told my friend the other day that the church felt more like a business corporation than anything. Was really interesting to hear you mention that as well. I've been feeling that something has been up for awhile but wasn't quite sure what it was. Really good to hear your thoughts on this. We need to start following God and not feed into this system much longer. Not all churches are like this, though majority are. I think some are changing their tune but there are still remnants of this system floating around, possibly because it's all that we've known to do for so long.
For sure. I'm glad this video was helpful. We do have a lot of work to do. :) So exciting!
I have held similar views for quite a few years. Changing the exist "structure" has not born any fruit. Creating the reforms within and lovingly walking them out has been helpful to me. For one, having a deep conviction regarding ordinary people and their potential for extraordinary living draws people into the very thing their hearts are yearning for. Another is choosing the intimate life of non-spectator empowerment keeps me praying for opportunities on a daily basis. The complexities can be simplified with a heart to love the people in our closest spheres of influence. Talk on levels relevant to the spiritual experience of those we encounter. It takes self-control, but pays off in greater fruit. 'Nuff for now,
You nailed it. Realise the same things about the system.
That is why no one complains about issues like pagan feasts such as Christmas, Easter , use of crosses, names of our Saviour and Elohiym.
Anyway the name is YAHUSHUA not Jesus( which is only about 500 years old)
Yahuah not God or LORD
Wow wow. So powerful. Didn't Jesus himself say, "I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands"? This is what the process of deconstruction feels like to me. Frankly, I've been on this journey and had no idea that word even existed until recently. haha. I've been in this place where the Lord was like, the Truth of the Gospel has become lost/convoluted because of centuries of man-made systems, traditions and ideals. Almost like the game of telephone. What was the original message? That's SO important.
🤍
Thank you for going here. As a woman I learned even strict adherence didn’t guarantee anything and am now in the wilderness of trying to live both/and in the church which is sometimes….. difficult.
For sure. I'm sorry about that. :( Are you getting the support you need?
At times? Not a lot of that particular support out there. Not many pastors out in the wilderness or understanding of the wilderness.
I feel like I am more that for others than getting that from others.
I see. Have you checked out my website? Potentially there are resources or groups available there that could be support for you. www.mikemaeshiro.com
I grew up a strict Roman Catholic. I fell out with the institution of the church. Patriarchy and adherence to historic rites became toxic to the body of the church, which is why the institution of the church is losing members.
I was in this system for over a decade. I was pushed out because I took a stand for a liberal theological position of inclusivity and acceptance. I also went outside the “box” when it came to worship and ministry. Finally, I got pushed out in what became a conservative purge. The system is very real and it will eat its own if allowed to continue. I have been deconstructing for many years and struggle with religious PTSD due to the abuse I endured both in the system and after being pushed out.
Are you saying you pushed for acceptance of sin? Things the Bible clearly teaches against? Be more specific. Coming out of the system should have nothing to do with DEI.
@@ritadyer9295 I left because I sincerely followed Jesus' teaching of accepting all and the theological position of radical inclusive love. It has nothing to do with DEI. I also recognize that the Bible NEVER addresses same sex relationships in the way we understand them today. It addresses rape, humiliation and power imbalances as well as exploitational relationships. The "clobber passges" do not say what you think they say.
Thank you for sharing. I’m sorry you were hurt by the hands of the church. The ones suppose to represent those of Jesus. God bless
They said for having liberal theology. So that means a more learned and less constricted interpretation of scripture (like Jesus). Why do you hold evil suspicions against another? You err by not reading what they are saying with an unbiased and non-judgement lens. God bless you. 💛
Hi Mike! Great talk thanks. There are some good points you raise. And it makes me think because I am in that system and still love it, work for it, and feel called for it. Are you implying there should not be an official structure like the church? Do you feel the “gatekeeper” should all be layman? Or should there be no full time pastors? I am a Young Adults pastor and try my best to empower my students and other congregation to not be spectator but partakers. But I studied Theology, and from a young age felt a calling to be a pastor and to take care of people. First Spiritually, then Emotionally then Physically. Am I allowed to receive a pay-check from my church for doing that or should I do some other job because we are just taking other people’s money for ourself? I did Bssm for 3 years and for me it was a massive empowering experience. Especially as a foreigner. The message I got was that all of us are called to do the stuff!! It’s more about a relationship with Jesus than church, I get that. But I think our church is genuinely trying to empower people to be who God called them to be and not just get their money. And then what do you think about corporate worship? Where is the place for that? If you could make a video one day of explaining the ideal that you see in the Bible, I would really like that. Thanks for being honest and real. I like your talks
Hi Mike! I would appreciate a video on those questions raised as well!
Appreciate your thoughts as always!
I'm convinced that one person 'teaching' from the front isn't the best way of doing things but... I can't think of an alternative!
Stay tuned for my next youtube video! :)
Yup! Thanks! You're being responsible!
Look at the way the early church met 1 Cor. 14:26, Acts and Eph: 4. The body is to be very interactive with one another. Not meant for 1 person to stand on a stage and give a sermon. Most of what is shared, by research, is forgotten within 8 hours.
Thanks Mike,
Well articulated.
There is a book named ‘pagan christianity’ which explains where a lot of the traditions in (churches as we know it) comes from.
Best, Michael vNiekerk
I got that book for Christmas 😂 I'll be reading it this year. Thank you!
@@mikemaeshiro3965 Christmas is pagan also
You nailed it.
Could the system's purpose be to suppress God's spiritual giftings to His people? Just a thought.
Thanks! I always appreciate the integrity you put in the way you comunicate.
I would call that system pharisianism, I think it's not just a christian swear word and it's more than some specific theologic point (like salvation by work).
Nice. Thank you
The evidence of a powerful effective church is in that it has empty pews.
AMEN!
What are some of those questions that were taboo? I’d love to ask a couple 😁
Lol!!
Yup yup yup. Agreed.
I left 3 years ago. I don't do religion
So true
When we minister to people whether it be one on one or on stage, we need to leave them feeling like they just had a meeting with Jesus. Also, if each service that's being held doesn't have a true move of the Holy Spirit and manifestation of it's power, then they're doing something seriously wrong. Before my pastor died last September he'd seen hundreds of miracles and thousands upon thousands of healings. But nobody sees that in todays "apostate" church.....ever....
Man's kingdom vs God's kingdom
Born again, according to the will of the flesh, the will of men.
Micah 4:5-7😊
Dialoging with the laity might be helpful.