I Read "Yellowface" by R.F. Kuang and I'm Not Sure I'll Recover
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- #bookreview #bookreviews #books #literaryfiction
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I think that when you make a story about a character who is a villain, they still need to be compelling. I love a good villain and I love when a book swaps back and forth between the villain's pov and the hero's. I feel like if your MC is a bad person, I should be compulsively reading it and thinking "hehe, what abhorrent thing will they do next??" I do think there's an art to it and its difficult to pull off.
Definitely. There's nothing compelling about watching a shitty racist be shitty and racist the whole book. It feels like this book was written for white people that truly had no idea stuff like that happens in publishing. Cuz like D said, if you ARE already aware of it then why the hell would you wanna read about it?? Kinda feel like a purposeless book.
seriously. like, the character can be a deeply abhorrent person who you as a reader can't and don't support in their actions, but they still have to be captivating enough to actually... make the book good. i think a lot of the defense of the MC hears "this character is unlikable" as "this character is a bad person who does unjustifiable things" and yes, that's the point, but in things like this saying "this character is unlikable" leans much more towards "this character does not have the depth or charisma to make their unjustifiable actions worthwhile to explore as a reader". biiiig difference there, and like you said it's a hard bar to reach
Watching this video instead of finishing writing my novel! Thanks for helping me procrastinate 😊❤
Always happy to help 💛
no idea how intentional it was but im delighted by the fact that your nail polish matches the book cover
Thank you for noticing 💛
From what I’ve gathered from a few reviews: Kuang wanted to tell a story about a racist white woman getting away with essentially “murder,” stealing the face and words of her Asian friend. But Kuang is not a racist white woman (edited to add: she doesn’t need to be to write this character, but I meant that the “why” for the character gets lost in the narrative because the answer is “she’s just shitty”) and can’t really connect with her MC’s motives - she is clearly disgusted with her MC’s actions and thoughts - but that creates a shallow character being racist and terrible because they’re just a shitty person. Racism is not just the actions and thoughts of shitty people - it comes from well intentioned people too, because it’s ingrained and built into society. So it would have made more sense to me if the MC was full out enemies of Athena, rather than fake friends. The friends never makes sense, the Mc’s paranoia doesn’t really make sense when she’s clearly so shitty. I get why Kuang wrote this book, I just think it’s elevated in book clubs and bookstores to the level it is because it’s about a shitty white woman doing what we all expect. That’s somewhat satire, but it doesn’t really offer anything to discuss. It’s kind of like doomscrolling/reading/watching for dooms-sake. You’re reading it to feel annoyed at racism in publishing - and that can be someone’s tea. I personally feel like this would be exhausting to read. I feel like the real life drama that recently played out was way more insane, to be honest 😅. It also opened real discussion about what the heck is going on in publishing. Just my random thoughts.
Yeah exactly. I don't think she actually knows how people like that think or go about their day so she substitutes all the things she doesn't know with generic shittiness.
This is interesting, because she absolutely nailed it with Lettie in Babel.
This book is as subtle as a falling piano and I very happy that I dnf it
That’s a good way to live!
I had the same problem with the Poppy war. Kuang's character work is just very unsubtle, it's so obvious what she wants the reader to think about every character, even when they're supposedly morally grey. Also, I think that one of the things about unlikeable characters is that if you're in their head, they should still be understandable. Everyone's the hero in their own head after all.
the phrase "nothing burger" really sums up this book
The author dream casted Sydney Sweeney as June and I couldn’t stop picturing her as that character while you were talking😭😭😭
Really!?!? Would not be who I’d cast but go off I guess?
36:43 omg the way you said money made me laugh two seperate times. I rewound a minute later to make sure I was paying attention but I completely forgot you said that in that minute and it caught me off guard and made me laugh again. Lol
32:02 my dreams are to work in astrophysics and build a family with someone. i always loved space as a kid and wanted to discover things/contribute to science in some way, and i’d love to have the happy relationships with a spouse and kid(s) my parents do. i’m making those dreams come true because right now i’m getting ready to study for my bachelor’s degree, and i’ve been in a great long distance relationship for 3.5 years ❤
Those are beautiful dreams ✨ props for turning them into reality!!
I haven’t read Yellowface yet, although I think I will try it out even though I think I’ll agree with the more neutral reviews. But the negativity around it reminds me of the problems I had with Little Fires Everywhere (specifically, for a spoiler free summary: a major plot line revolves around a Chinese baby girl who was abandoned by her mother because the mother couldn’t care for her due to severe poverty, who was then adopted by a wealthy white couple). That’s certainly an interesting topic and I’d love to read more about interracial adoption, but the adoptive family in the book is just so fking dumb and prejudiced, and clearly just wanted any baby and don’t care about the little girl they have, so it’s obvious you are not supposed to support them.
I read the book when my own daughter was a newborn (I think under two weeks old) so you’d think I’d automatically be on the birth mother’s side, but the feelings that having my daughter gave me extended in a way to every child in the world (real and imaginary; I sobbed and sobbed when the abandonment of the baby was described, and another scene close to the end), so it felt extra unrealistic to have these two-dimensional racist characters who didn’t seem to have strong feelings for the baby they supposedly desperately wanted because she was a different race than them.
I think this topic was handled pretty well and with nuance in The Berry Pickers if you’re interested in reading about adoptive trauma
A nonfiction title that was really well written about a tragedy was We Were Once A Family about the US child welfare system and how bad it can be.
Bro my comments r dissappearing
Edit: well if this stays up, in one of them I basically said I dislike unlikable mcs cuz why would you wanna read about someone annoying that you don't care about.
Second one was about WithCindy having a video about this book where she had some good input.
The last one was basically -> haven't read the book myself, but maybe the mc is so unreasonably unlikable because Kuang doesn't actually know what these people think or do in their day to day lives. So she just substitutes it with shittiness.
That’s really strange.
I checked and there wasn’t anything “held for review” from you. Some other really weird/mean stuff, but nothing from you.
@@dontfretreadbooksHuh, that's weird. I guess it's on my end then. On your anime channel, on the vid before the most recent one, I also left three comments that poofed into non-existence. Odd. Oh well.
Oh yeah that’s really odd. I’m sorry that’s happening. I always like hearing from you on either channel!
Loved this vid but the main thing I took from this is that we all have that one small business owner who supports our dreams more than our parents 😂
Never learned that guys name who owned that Vietnamese place, but he knew my order by heart and always had life advice to share when I came in after a bad day (such as “don’t get married, just travel the world and have fun” and “don’t forget to prioritize your happiness”) miss that guy more than my ex 😂😂
I think that’s the best thing to take away from this video 😂 this guy sounds dope I’d miss him too!
Wanting to wear Athena's skin also has big Patrick Bateman energy
I actually love those long videos
I feel like more people need to hear this, but just because a book *tells* you that something is the way it is, that doesn't mean you have to like it. Like june is super hateable, and that can be a reason why someone hates the book. If its justified by the character getting hit by karma then that remedies that, but June just gets called out and thats the end of the book. She could have been arrested for assault given how assholish, entitled and violent she is, and the fact that she tried to attack her editor for no reason but it really sounded like R. F. wanted exaggerate her character for the sake of commentary
Im also typing one handed so there's probably some messed up stuff here
Your notes killed me 😂
"Those r words. Grammar." Fabulous.
0:32 that reminds of the time I watched The Devil Wears Prada bc it was recommended to me as a psychological thriller. It definitely wasn't that 😅 but still a great watch
I'm supposed to lead a book club meeting discussing this one next week. You absolutely nailed when you said "the people who understand the point shes making are bored and the people like June Hayward, who are having a mirror held up to them, lack the critical thinking skills to understand why June is shitty"
The book club I'm in is a lot of young adult Chinese adoptees and boomer white adoptive parents. I now realize that I (a young white woman brought in as a friend of an adoptee), have been appointed to be the buffer to help translate why June is bad for the boomers.
Wish me luck, y'all 😂
Oh wow! Good luck 🫡
"Athena can step on me" Nice 👌🏻
3:08
I'll edit this when I finish the video, but unlikable characters are still supposed to be good characters. Kevin from Welcome to NightVale unlikable to the extreme, but as a villain he's brilliant. I said Wish was a poorly constructed movie, and someone said I must have been too stupid to understand it. Meanwhile I know Disney movies like the back of my hand. Like no, Disney just sucks at making movies now.
53:24
"I'm not gonna make a mark on the world, and I'll be forgotten."
Proceeds to rip off a deceased author James Somerton style, and bullies a child. I don't think she'll be forgotten, she'll just be hated. I wouldn't mind if my books got remembered forever, but lord I wouldn't want to be remembered for stealing someone's work.
Agreed. Even if the MC is supposed to be unlikable or gray, the reader should be able to relate to their motives enough to feel connected. I feel like the subject matter was used alone to shock the reader into following along, but it would be more compelling if the reader had to wrestle with their feelings over the MC’s decisions and actions.
@@writerbyday I have unlikable characters, and villains as MCs and none of them are as mean as Juniper, like sure she doesn't have to be likable, but your main characters should have some level of charm unless the point is the MC to be unlikable, and I don't think this is the case here.
Yup. And they should still feel like a person. Even genuinely terrible people still have okay traits or things that they enjoy.
@@monster-enthusiast
I think that's where a lot of people get tripped up. Juniper should have felt like a person, and instead she came across as someone trying to make sure we know Juniper is bad.
I heard you refer to Becky Chambers and just lost my whole damned mind, I adore that author so much and people don't mention her enough. Thank you for mentioning her
I have DNF'd multiple books because I couldn't tolerate the purposely unlikable characters. Totally understood what the author was going for, but doesn't mean I have to like it! 😂
Adding another comment because I just thought of a similar but better done dark humor/hyperreality story that I is definitely worth reading: Friday Black by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah - it is I think what Yellowface tried to achieve, but doesn’t toe the line - it jumps the line over and dances in the absurd reality of racism. Recommend 1000%.
Same author as Chain Gang All Stars? That’s going on my list.
I'm not sure how I got here but it's fine and I'm rolling with it is how I want my 2024 reading year to go. 😂 Is a legit vibe. I think people should be able to really take in and explain why an unlikable character is interesting or compelling vs not being either of those things. Saying someone "doesn't get it," is a cop out. For me characters don't always need to be real, they do need to be entertaining.
Like there are GOOD unlikable characters. The point of the story is to watch them set their life on fire and make a complete ass of themself in a way that's entertaining. One of my favorite books Love Fast Los Angeles is an example of this. The MC is a human trash panda with a himbo mindset. What makes him interesting is he's a paparazzi with a very weird childish outlook on life that probably comes from the SA he sustained by what was once an acceptable trope in 80's and 90's media. He also can't read a room to save his life. Part of the onion that is this dude is that his immediate family is one of the wealthiest in wine country with a winery (a detail that's not in this book). I think one of the reasons why people don't like him is because you kind of need to read book one to have a little more context.
I don't know if this book is for anyone in particular as the people who actually need it either aren't going to read it or process it in a meaningful way so they reflect on their world views. I think it might be more of a reminder for a couple of authors? Rachel would be a good person to ask Jupiter/Juniper something (started with a W I think). When her career was torched by her own bad behavior she gaslit people into believing she was Latina/Latine so she could write a Latine focused book that a publisher wanting to publish diversely would pick up. She was ousted and her second deal was canceled as a result. She went as far as to get people to help her with her research to make it more authentic.
I loved this book. It was definitely a shot at the publishing industry and writers like Lisa See. It was definitely a page turner.
Oh dang! 1 hour? coming back to this tonight!
Heyyy fellow Canadian!! Love finding Canadian booktubers
When you said the 6 C’s I was like “holy shit they made more???”
Nah I’m just unprofessional and do what I do.
Your commentary starting around the 3 minute mark is exactly it!!! I totally get the value of having unlikeable characters but… for me personally I don’t enjoy not liking ANY of them? It makes me feel detached. Yes, it’s exactly as delivered, and it’s not my cup of tea. I also didn’t find the book especially funny… I thought “THE PLOT” was a better take on the “stealing a dead person’s story, mysterious entities are alluding the protagonist didn’t get away with it” schtick as it was a “story” and not an “omg look at this” lecture
Edit also: good point too about her way of giving Michael Scott but not really like, in funny situations? Like thinking about Scott’s Tots…. June could never ☠️💀
This book was extremely unsubtle and it never really crossed over into actually interesting satire. Racism at its heart is incredibly absurd and nonsensical, often built upon multiple contradictory beliefs. It's perpetuated by not just individuals spewing slurs, but well meaning people and systems like publishing. So why not push the character and scenario to really dig into and expose that? Instead we got incredibly on the nose nonsense like the main character hating Chinese food and calling it smelly, refusing a sensitivity reader, and sympathizing with the whote oppressors in her book. Like we get it, she's racist. Having a racist character do racist things just isn't particularly interesting and isn't really saying much other than racism bad.
I didn’t like this book for many of the same reason you list and i nearly didn’t finish it. It didn’t feel necessary but also just recently the NYT published a review where the reviewer was very overtly dismissive of “hard” names so maybe it’s necessary for someone, just not for me.
I liked The Poppy War though and I still plan to read Babel
ready to settle in and check this video out!
Have you watched readwithcindy's RUclips video review on this book yet?
No I haven’t. I don’t want to think about this book for a while.
@dontfretreadbooks Well, whenever/if you do, I highly recommend it! Since she's Asian, she gives an ownvoices review and critiques the book in such a way where what she's saying is really informative but easy to digest :)
You know who Juniper reminds me of? She’s basically what would happen if Sarah from “Ed, Edd, n’ Eddy” grew up into a manipulative adult. The descent into madness, the temper tantrums, the serious lack of redeemability, they’re all there. Sarah only got comeuppance a handful of times on that show, which is more than I’ll ever say for Juniper, who deserved much more than a survivable trip down the stairs. Thank you for your sacrifice, D. I’m not going anywhere near Yellowface.
I’m surprised you didn’t find ANY of it funny! You seriously didn’t find the hilariously undignified way in which Athena dies in the opening chapter funny? 😂😂😂😂😂
I guess I just have a morbid sense of humour 🫠.
There is a scene in Babel where one of the characters gets murdered on a ship and main characters spend a considerable amount of time debating how to dispose of the body and the humour in that part mimics the kind of dark humour that’s in Yellowface. You may or may not like Babel based on how you felt about Yellowface.
There is also a main character in Babel whose attitude is very similar to Juniper’s as well so… just a trigger warning there if you do decide to risk reading it.
In all seriousness I really do appreciate your opinion on this book. I might not agree with it, but I can definitely appreciate and respect you wanting to stay away from literature that reminds you too much of real life experience. Sometimes we read to escape real life problems, so I really can appreciate that perspective!
Your review made me feel so much better about my choice not to read R F Kuang.
I will consume reviews of Kuang's books and read books that are interesting to me.
I’m glad I could validate your reading choices!
I enjoyed this book for the discourse it engendered. But i agree with you on many points, and i felt myself going uhhh haa listening to your review. Having read Babel and now yellowface, i am not sure Kuang is the right person to write about race relations and the colonialist mindset.She does have a knack for writing hateful characters but there is no nuance in her argument in both babel and yellowface. Her premise seems to be white is bad. I wanted more meatiness from this... similar to what i get from nigerian writers like chimamanda ngozi adichie. As a 3rd gen asian african myself i find books about colonialism and modern day race relations fascinating especially from other countries. I didn't have the same level of hate for this book that you did, but also, i haven't experienced the same race relations you had. Keen to listen to more of your reviews
4:33 me trying to understand why he said this LMAOO
Ruining my finishing that KHorror plans aren't ya hell yea
I had the same issue with a super unlikeable protag in Really Good, Actually. I get having an unlikable protagonist is a choice for some stories but that doesn't mean I have to like it. More power to people who enjoy it, but no thanks.
I’d love to listen to some of your music! Let me know where to find it 😊
Go and read a good book now. You owe it to yourself. Did you read Redemptor yet?
32:00 my dream is to be a jeweler! :D
That’s really cool!!
I liked Yellowface. It was good but not great. It was fun to hate June but it didn’t feel like a book that will stand the test of time. It’s a book for now. I doubt it will be a book that people are talking about in 10 years.
What’s your bookstagram?
I don’t have a bookstagram, sorry!
The first sign is that cover. It looks like the person has a lazy eye