Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica Noctilux Lenses
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2021
- In this episode of Red Dot Forum Camera Talk, Leica experts David Farkas and Josh Lehrer will be talking all about Noctiluxes, Leica's legendary low-light lenses. From the first 50mm f/1.2 to the latest 75mm f/1.25 ASPH, they'll go through the entire lineage, explain what to look for if wanting to buy one for yourself, and offer tips on getting the best results from one of these beauties.
As always, feel free to submit questions before the show to questions@reddotforum.com or ask live in the chat.
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Gentlemen: You guys are a font of knowledge and a treasure to the photographic community !
So nice of you to say! It's our pleasure.
My only 50 as of now is Nocti 1.2 reissue and I have nothing but great things to say about it, absolutely beautiful and sharp where it needs to be. Bokeh is also great. I have no desire so far for another 50 as I am sure it would not get used as much as this bad boy. Stopped down becomes a beast of a lens and just as sharp as the others. The size and rendition of this makes it a lens to have with you at all times.
Not enough love for the 1.2 out there.
Btw, great videos....Subscribed
I'm catching up but these Camera Talk episodes are just so good! Thank you both for all the hard work you put into these. It is very much appreciated.
Glad you like them!
Funny story; I saw my vs f/1 in a used camera shop for sale for 3250 Euro at the time. It didn't have the lens hood, but I jumped on it all the same. I was able to pay it off in two installments and when I picked it up, the shop owner told me the person who sold him the lens actually found the box, lens hood, manuals, etc. I didn't have to pay extra for it and he just gave it to me! I never actually used the hood. I got a cheap 10 euro aluminium screw on hood from ebay that I scratched up to make the whole thing look a lot less attractive to thieves. And it meant I was never really worried about dinging the lens into something (top tip for you guys right there ;) ).
2 thumbs up and hats off, you guys are doing an amazing job, creating awareness and bringing the leica family together! 2hrs long or 3hrs long, the longer the better, I'd watch every bit of it. Did not know Peter K was a 50 mil lens fan :-). PS my first leica product purchase was a 50mm noctilux lens!
I hope I’ll once will own one. ➡️ Nocti lux (Latin) means literally “the light of the night” (Lux noctis). I’m currently watching all of your talks, they are incredibly good. Liked and subscribed of coursed (and checked the bell).
I know this is really late. The ability to see the lenses in action, real time and the Lightroom comparison are both unbelievably useful! Thank-you!!!!!
So glad you found it useful.
I haven't seen your RUclips show in a while and WOW what a beautiful progression. I did go back and watched a few past episodes. Your first show was like a Noctilux-50mm F/1 (very nice) and last night episode was the Noctilux-M 75mm f/1.25 ASPH. I can actually see the hard work you two and the staff have put into all of this. Thank you for that. I must admit, by watching you guys it has helped me make decisions on Leica lenses in which I know will be a perfect match for my style of photography. I do have the Noctilux-M 75mm f/1.25 ASPH for nearly a year and it is magical. My first impression was how am I going to carry this thing because it is heavy for a M Lens. I decided to take it with my SL2 and M10M for a 20 mile hiking trip. The weight was not a problem for me but it's there. The photos this thing creates are so magical it was all worth it. I highly recommend Noctilux-M 75mm.
Thanks for that. We've definitely worked hard to continually improve the production of our livestream. From lighting, to cameras, to motion control system, to audio, software, graphic design elements, etc, we're constantly looking for ways to step up our game. And we've got plenty more planned changes on the way. Stay tuned!
Very informative and interesting as usual; liked live testing and the Lightroom replay, the comparisons between Noctis and the other lenses, and the purpose / uses of the Noctis. Well done!
Glad it was helpful!
Unbelievable show. So much great valuable information. You guys ROCK!!!! Keep up the great work!!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Another fantastic episode. You guys are the best.
Awesome episode, love the new format with the live view, excellent!
Awesome, thank you for the feedback.
Thank you for an excellent show tonight! 👍👍
Our pleasure!
With regards to the F1 Noctilux lenses, they in fact do "not" render all the same. The first version which started being made in 1975 is an E58 filter size and has the earliest coatings resulting in more muted colors and less contrast plus the most vignetting, the V2 E60 F1 has less vignetting due to the larger E60 glass size but with close or the same lens coatings, the V3 and V4 share the same later coatings on the glass which I find provide the sharpest optics of all the F1 versions, so for best overall F1 I pick the V3 as it has the latest coatings yet has the reversible hood as the V4 sliding hood is a disaster. The most artistic F1 is the original E58 F1 hence why its value has risen so much.
Just caught up with this episode. Fantastic overall content as usual. Thank you both for the monumental effort.
However, I must say that I was disappointed with the lack of discussion around the use of these lenses with Leica film cameras. It would be great if you would please consider including in each future episode how a lens would be on Leica film cameras. Since there are a variety of film cameras and time is limited, at least concentrating on a modern film camera like a Leica MP or Leica M-A would give us analog Leica users some helpful information.
Please consider. Thank you!
Another informative and interesting presentation . Thank you .
Our pleasure!
Great job and it was incredible informative as to the different appearances of the lens. Sorry I was a little snippy about the use of "lens shades," and I think you guys came around really nicely on that one and even tested it going forward.
There is one observation (which Heikki also notes below) which I disagree with, but am happy to be proven wrong about: roughly "the 90 F.15 really looks like a Summilux, not a Noctilux." The 90mm F1.5 is the same lens construction as the 75mm F1.25 with one lens piece missing has slightly reduced MTF curves. As you guys well know, traditionally Leica had to limit the ratio of the focal length to aperture to 6:1. Thus, 75/1.25 = 90/1.5 = 6. Now, I have used the 75mm extensively (and far prefer it with visoflex on the M10M & R to be able to properly review it) and am always in awe of the results. I have not used the 90mm Summilux very much because I have to date enjoyed the slighter closer and wider view of the 75mm and I was also separated from the 90MM lens until recently due to Covid. I prefer using the 90mm SL to the 75mm SL lens on the SL system, btw, so its complicated. But anyhow, when I did briefly test the 90MM Summilux lens, I would have put it in the Noctilux family just like I put the 100F2 S lens (equivalent of an 80mm F1.6 in 35mm) into the same general family.
So I would have preferred you did include it in these tests (and a little less time on the 50MM F1), but anyhow!
Also, wish the broadcast was done a bit earlier for those of us in Europe. But se leve.
Overall, it was a phenomenal job of really differentiating between these lens and I have to say that of the 50s, the current Noctilux (and Summilux) sings. But then when you get to the 75MM Noctilux, its a different Opera.
Thanks!!!!
Is there a significant 'artistic difference' (in your opinion) between the SL 75mm (on SL2) and the Noct 75mm 1.25 ? .. Are you saying you would go for 75mm Noct and the SL 90mm on the SL(2) ?
"More than human eyes" !!!!! Ohhhh, that is sooooo incredible!!!! Except, human eye is about f2.2, so almost every prime lens is better....but that wouldn't sound incredible like their statement.
How otherwise you can sell lens for 12 000 dollars? No?
And of course, than they will be flashing Seiko 5 watches, not Roleyyy like they do now.
But thumbs up, good stream like usual.
Minor correction @51:55 it’s axial (aka longitudinal) chromatic aberration.
Nikon's Nikkor Z 58mm f/0.95 Noct is so impressive, it just makes me wish to see what Leica could do with an SL Noct, when they can go off and make an f/0.95 or f/1 lens with all of the modern bells and whistles you could ask for. Great video as always, thank you.
Never thought about an L mount noctilux, very possible but it maybe manual focus if AF proves too technical as it will with such a shallow DOF
I own every Leica Noctilux version from my 50mm 1968 1.2, 1975 E58 F1, F1 V2, F1 V3, F1 V4. .95, 75 1.25 and the new 50 1.2 remake, and without any doubt the Nikon Z 58 .95 Noct is far superior in every measure against any of the Leica Noctilux lenses. It is the sharpest on center yet it posses an even more artistic out of focus rendering even when compared to the original 1.2 and E58 F1 Noctilux lenses. Its only downside is it weighs over 2 KG. It's time Leica updated the .95 Noctilux.
Again a superb presentation! Thank you !
I was kind of expecting that you would cover the Summilux-M 90mm f1.5 Asph in this episode. It is a very Noctilux-like lens, is it not ?
We considered adding the 90 Summilux-M, but ultimately felt that sticking with only Nocitlux lenses would make for a more focused discussion.
Thank you for the episode! Great job, on the subject of ND filters for a 0.95 what ND filter to use if I am shooting film camera? Thanks
Nice oversight. I have the 50/1.0 version 3 and one thing I like about this one over the others is the fact you can reverse mount the hood for compact transport. I actually prefer this version over the later version 4 that I had for a while since the retractable hood on this example felt extremely sloppy and would retract or bump out of place with even the slightest touch. The version 3 hood is very sturdy, clips on easily and it can be mounted backwards for compact transport. My favourite of all the 50 Nocts with the classic Noct magic, reasonable price and usable performance. Not for best resolving performance though, it's an artists' lens.
How you like the V3 from the v4 optic wise?
Waiting for that Noctilux-SL set of lenses to happen...not sure if Ill ever afford it but will still wait for it.
Very informative presentation. I now feel a lot more comfortable with my soft images from Noctilux 0.95. I have been trying to get that soft dreamy look at the same time trying for the sharpness of 50m f/2 ASPH. Am I trying to achieve the impossible?
Those are two very different lenses. At f/8, it's getting close, but just as the APO-Summicron isn't going to produce that dreamy Noctilux look wide open, neither is the Noct going to delivery the uncompromising optical performance of the Cron.
Hi David, Josh, thank you for the great content. Can I ask what cables do you use / recommend for similar SL2 streaming setups ? These look pretty robust ! Thanks in advance !
Given our studio layout, we use 25 foot long HDMI cables to reach from the set to the streaming computer. Braided cables are great for their durability and smooth handling. Here is the exact cable we're using for camera capture: amzn.to/2O9pWMK
A fantastic episode.
Thanks!
Is it allowed to change the places?
Amazing! As usual!👍👍👍
Thank you so much 😀
Sorry, with regard to my comment below, Josh did explain in detail his perspective on the differences on the 90MM Summilux from the 75MM Noctilux in "Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Telephoto Leica M Lenses" at 10:30 for almost 7 minutes. So I apologise for not referencing this below and, moreover, you guys clearly noted that you would go up to 75MM Noctilux and no further. So understood now!
Speaking of where to send a Noct for a CLA - I sent my mid-'80s 90mm Tele-Elmarit to Leica USA, and _they_ ended up sending it to Germany! Maybe b/c it's a vintage lens.
what about the f1 noct vs the newly issued f1.2 noct, in terms of optical performance and “magic ness”
Impassive equipment wish I can put my hands on some gear like that
What’s the intro music ?
The flare without the hood is considerable, is that due to this lens being so wide?
That is in part because of the diameter of the front element, yes. But the flare is mostly due to a super bright studio light shining right into the lens from the side, in an otherwise dark setting.
Cool music for your stand-by screen.
It's weird that they're on the the opposite sides of the frame. Change it back! lol
Yeah, a little awkward for us as well, but there's no room for a live shooting setup on the other side of the studio...yet. :)
@@RedDotForum That said, I love the Live View stuff. (I didn't watch the macro episode.) So awesome.
Documentation says the 75mm Noctilux has 11 aperture blades. I will tell you for sure when mine gets here.
Video @ 31:35 "much looser" - Huh ? - Sorry gentlemen, but Noctilux lenses probably have/had the MOST extensive Q C stages of any in the Leica M lens line-up. Unless the lens has sustained a trauma of some type (either poor re-assembly/tampering or impact), a Leica lens doesn't just go off or for that matter leaves the factory substandard (make no mistake about it, the focus specs ARE STANDARD). - On the other hand, the much more complex and multiple weak point Rangefinder mechanism, typically is the cause of focus errors (user eyesight, low magnification, Hori/Vert calibration & especially linearity). There's a reason that Factory service asks that you send the body & lens in. First they're checking the lens for any of the trauma's I outlined, then they end up adjusting the FULL-OF-VARIABLES body (film & digital units). Finally absent the trauma, they replace the mount when the lens is being upgraded to 6-Bit; not because they're changing any focus error or "calibrating for a digital body". Standard is Standard...
is this shot at a higher frame rate than the older streams? it feels hyper realistic
the newer episodes are shot on the SL2-S, with new video capabilities.
We've shot at the same 4K UHD resolution and 29.97 fps frame rate for all of our livestreams. A couple of months ago, we switched from two SL2 cameras to two SL2-S cameras. We've also made changes to our lighting along the way as well. We're currently using a massive Intellytech Mega Lite-Cloth as our key light that measures 3 x 4.5 feet, along with two smaller standard 1 x 3 Lite-Cloths with grids as back lights.
@@RedDotForum thanks for the response! looks good
5:32 to start
I believe I noticed that none of your lenses had a protective UV filter installed. Do you actually take such expensive lenses out in the field without UV filters? Do UV filters affect the quality of the image? You didn't discuss the detrimental effects of the size and weight of the Noctilux lenses. It would be interesting to hear Henri Cartier-Bresson talk about the 75mm Noctilux. It's not a discreet lens.
The visual comparisons make the lenses come out as real entities, instead of just an expensive thought on a dealer web site.
Glad you found it helpful.
Will Leica make a Sl version ?
Not that they've said, but you can always use any M lens on the SL2 - just like we did during the live demo part of the presentation.
@53:57 I would get that excited as well 😂
the 75 is the best lens
Why don(t you make an APO (all lenses) episode instead of 35mm APO ?
We actually considered this, but not sure about the logistics of so many different focal lengths. Ultimately, we feel that the 35 APO-M is a watershed lens, and deserves its own coverage.
Video @ 32:00 "not as smooth" - Com'on guys, the only reason that the earlier versions aren't as "smooth" is because they haven't been serviced recently, have more mileage and/or age on them. I've serviced even the f/0.95 lenses with the customer complaint of a 'ever so slight' binding when focus searching (back & forth) is performed. Unlike with vehicles and precision mechanical watches (where regular maintenance is preached), folks simply don't change the lubricants in their precision high-end optics & cameras; in fact, they wait decades before they change out the break-in metal particle infested grease ! - It's this metal floating in the grease that gives that less than smooth focus feel, it isn't due to "the earlier version" flaws or quality control...
Have you seen data that supports metal particles from lens focuser wear? That is known to occur in high RPM and torque car and plane engines, but I’d be surprised if that’s an issue in lenses (slow speed rotations and relatively few partial revolutions).
@@johnkasianowicz6536 - "data that supports" - Huh?😆- I'm the data ! - I've been a technician since 1977 and have see obvious 'shiny particles' on the bottom of the glass jar of solvent (after solvent washing the helical tubes)...
@@y2ktube That’s helpful. Thank you.
@@y2ktube Did you do any further investigation of the particles? Are they pieces of brass shed from the helical focuser?
@@johnkasianowicz6536 - "any further investigation?" - Sorry, I didn't & don't run a forensics lab, just a camera & lens service shop...
Why didn't Leica adapt the Noctilux lenses to be used on Leica-R SLR 35mm cameras? How much rangefinder blockage happens when using a Noctilux lens on a Leica M camera?
What kind of SL2 rigging is that?
For the live shooting, we've got an SL2 on a tabletop tripod, connected to the video capture card in our streaming PC via HDMI. For additional power, we also hooked up a USB-C cable to the camera, which is plugged into a wall charger. The setup is similar to our our two SL2-S studio cameras that we record the show with, which are also connected via HDMI into our video capture card on the streaming PC.
@@RedDotForum Thank you so much for the elaboration! But I was particularly curious about that "bottom plate"-cage the SL sits on... Seems to support the cable connections on the right? What brand is that?
Ah. Not a cage. This is the Really Right Stuff SL2 L-Plate. There is an opening for the A/V cables to pass through, but it doesn't offer any support. The only dedicated video cage for the SL2 is the by Metal Jacket 2 by Lock Circle.
@@RedDotForum Oh! Good to know! Thank you very much! Great service even out here in RUclips.
I misses this live show.. i know the noctilux f1 suffer from so called focus shifts, what’s that supposed to mean? Does it mean i could only shoot at f1 any given distance?
Focus shift refers to the phenomenon of the point of focus wide-open shifting forwards or backwards as the aperture is stopped down. No focus shift means that the point of focus will match with the rangefinder and remain consistent at all apertures.
@@RedDotForum so it is safe to say, if aparture is stopped down, we just have to refocus? And it would be in focus?
are you guys using the lenses for pictures too? sometmes? ever? or just discussing some jewels.... haha
haha why on earth would you throw the 75 noct in? It is hands down not just Leica's. really love it so much. Don't care about the weight its just the best for the M not that rubbish SL crap? if you can't focus it buy e Summaron
Two hours of looking at a stuffed bear?! You could've done better. Still, great video.
Happy to hear suggestions for a better live photo setup!
you talk too fast sometimes…