I think a big issue with what the third man said is that a lot of everyday people that believe in God experience the same "meaning of life" issues atheists do. Even if you say there is an objective meaning that's not something you can completely believe in at any given moment during your life, the struggle to know why you're on Earth is something everyone goes through at least once in their life (most people go through it a lot more than once though), it's something inherent to the question, even if you have faith you can't confirm it and you suffer from the same issues non-believers do. He's met a lot of university students and says they have trouble finding a meaning, I've met a lot of people of every kind with different cultures and I can say for certain that it is something universal and not found only in atheists.
Anyone, even Christians can still struggle with knowing their meaning and purpose. It's just that Christians are better able to deal with that struggle because they have a prescribed purpose given to them by God, the purpose to love and serve both him and other people in the world. You can struggle with going from there with "ok but how," and that's the part where you make it personal. Start out small in your local but also find what talents and skills you have and use them to the best of your ability to help make the world a better place. That's pretty much where it's at and it doesn't matter how you do it exactly. Meanwhile, other cultures have their struggles too, but those with a theistic description of where people came from and why they are there gives them an advantage over the atheist who has no system to go off of with "why am I here." Any atheist can say "I'm here to better my society and fellow man" but without a theocratic system or a God to back that up, they're really just making up that meaning in their head. It can be really meaningful, but there's nothing outside of them to validate it so it's not a real dead set purpose. It's just what you choose, because everyone has their subjective desires and sense of purpose; which means it really doesn't matter. Which means we as people don't actually matter. Someone else's purpose can be to make your life without a purpose or meaning, and without a theocratic system in place you can't say that person is wrong. So it's self-defeating
God is by definition the highest meaning one can think of. Because what ''higher'' meaning is there than God? I have been atheist my whole life, but something changed a couple of years ago at my early-mid 20's. I've been in the prescence of God, and cried tears of meaning when thinking about him and his Son Jesus Christ. How can i cry tears of meaning if God did not exist? Is it just a delusion? It being a delusion doesn't make sense either because if believing in God is a net-force for good then it is meaningful and sound. My life has improved after these events. No question about it!
@@97alexk this is one of those arguments with no head or tail, the fact that your life improved doesn't demonstrate anything. Someone's life could have improved after they started using drugs, that doesn't make drugs good though. About the meaning part, yes God might be the highest meaning you can think of, still doesn't necessarily make him real. Also there's a lot of different gods you could believe in that have this so-called meaning so that's not a reason to specifically choose the christian one. And my point was never about the meaning of God, my point was about the uncertainty of the question itself and how it can never completely bring you out of the struggle that is the search for meaning because it's simply unanswerable. The most you could say is that christians can sometimes find comfort in the idea that God exists but it's not a cure-all remedy that will make you never question life again, that's just not a thing.
@@97alexk I agree that a theory of meaning dictated by a higher power (as in a god) is better suited for living without the dread of questioning existence but my point is that the inherent uncertainty of faith makes it so everyone struggles equally in the face of the question. You say a christian is better suited to deal with the question but if your answer is on the basis of religion then you still have an inherent doubt caused by the fact that you can't be certain God exists, the moment your belief in God falters then the question automatically reappears in your head. As long as we don't know our meaning objectively we cannot really escape the feelings it causes and a christian doesn't have any more certainty than an atheist does. Also if your only reason for believing in a religion is the fact that it gives meaning to your life do you actually believe in it or are you deceiving yourself because the alternative is not having an answer? This argument doesn't really work as proof of religion.
@ I agree with you definitely. Also, I'm unsure if I really am a Christian. I believe in God, and in Jesus, But i don't think some events in the Bible actually happened in real time. Like Adam and Eve for example or the splitting of the red sea. But the stories themselves are still significant because they are very deep. Also it does give meaning in my life. But not 24/7. However as soon as i start thinking about God from my personal view, and not what others think about it, it instantly confirms my existence in a way. It's assuring for a person who struggles with everything feeling inauthentic. However there could be a possibility that i am deceiving myself. But that is not certain either. And frankly its irrelevant to me personally, because i feel that it gives meaning. So isn't that evidence in of itself? But i agree with you, with the doubt of it all being a thought-ghost of mine. It enters my mind every week, but i can feel God looking at me from a distance, in the corner of my eye.
@DropofGoodness So is cancer from the devil? Did got not beget satan? If there is a god, it is the universe; Everything considered good, evil, and all that's in between.
@@Musashi it’s not from the devil as such, it goes back to the fall of Adam, this is where sin entered the world. Following that is where disease and illness came and all these terrible things. But as Cliffe said it is a very difficult topic.
I legit saw a ladder going into heaven, I was told the truth is the bible, was shown Jesus, after being in hell and crying out with my soul for something to save me. God is real
@"how has science disproved genesis? " LOL. Are you saying you honestly believe our universe was created in 6 days? I hope not, but that's a reason why. Good luck my friend.
@"I legit saw a ladder going into heaven," I'm sure you think you did, but how can you demonstrate that what you saw wasn't an hallucination? Good luck.
@@PROVEIT2 science says life came from bioactive mud pools and lightning. God created Adam through clay (mud) and breathed a soul into him (God has a breath of lightning). So genesis lines up with science. Then now 6 days is not just one day less than a week. It may be 818183737817273187633778188 days or something else. We do not know because God is not in the dimention of time. If you study linear algebra you will understand how time is the fourth dimention. Now question yourself if it would make more sense for God to tell us that he breathed life into us or that he would explain evolution and teach linear algebra. Hope that helps.
What brilliant answers! God created us with a God shaped hole in our hearts. I believe the purpose is for God to be happy because He is perfect and He wants us to be happy. He loves us so much He died for us.
"God created us with a God shaped hole in our hearts." The two things wrong with that remark is that you haven't demonstrated your god is real and that hearts do not have holes in them.
@" not a literal hole " LOL. You refuted my comment about hearts, but you went quiet about evidence for god. That's quiet telling isn't it? Good luck my friend.
I was a Christian for 20 years but could not find objective meaning or purpose there either. When I thought I'd found it I couldn't find other Christians to share it with. Every Christian I met had a different God. Usually one that was okay with what they were doing but not okay with what others were doing. I'm not saying they were bad people because they weren't. They were great people. They were loving and generous like 95% of the time. Strangely enough what seemed to bring out the most animosity among them was talking about this one true God we all claimed to believe in.
Yeah the problem of evil, suffering and divine hidiness are all issues with any religion that claims a God who is omnipotent omniscient and also benevolent.
But the answer is sufficient lol. How can you have love without hate? How can we appreciate pleasure without ever feeling pain? Can we ever learn to love the sun if we never feel rain? How can we walk in faith if we know for a fact God is there? How can you attempt to logically discern the machinations of a perfect being who in speculation is larger, more intelligent, and older than our perceived universe? Even our greatest mathematicians still can’t properly conceptualize infinity yet you wish to curb the power of an infinite being with our little tiny human ideals of morality. We know nothing. Accept it and walk in faith towards a higher purpose. It’a the only recourse.
@ I believe in a God who isn’t isn’t dependent on hate, pain, and evil, to create love, pleasure, and goodness. Why does your view of God have such limitations? It makes no logically sense?
@ you’re attempting to logically understand the machinations of literally consciousness and the universe itself. You are maybe too stupid to realize that you actually cannot comprehend nor fathom how things came to be. There’s no Tedtalk, no class, book, or religion that can teach your little tiny human brain what the hell this existence is and how it came to be. Now you want to take that and surmise a petty little thing like human emotion somehow determines that the author of creation could not be good. I think your understanding of logic itself is pretty limited if that’s your assumption. What’s the alternative? Nonexistence? Infinite nothingness? What are we talking about here? To my understanding I live in a world where I can decide where to go and I can find love and I can also experience hardship and tragedy and even malevolence, or maybe things like hope, joy, success, pleasure, etc.. The existence of your negative emotions does not imply that the creator of said emotions are evil. I would say that the creation itself was an act of ultimate goodness, but you’ve forgotten that because you take the breath of life for granted.
@@charles21137the Christian God does not propagate hatred or pain or evil. He is described as good and proves it in how he provides and loves his creation. But he also can't just be "mercy and peace" all the time because evil is very real and has to be dealt with, if he actually loves his creation. Evil and hatred are things that come from man, not from God. He is good in all ways so those are not even possible for him. He's not limited in that sense, but he restrains himself by making humans able to freely choose. And humans freely choose to rebuke him and slander down on other people, and hate them and torture and kill. It's not God's fault those happen, because those were within our power and we chose to do them. He will certainly punish wrong, just like a parent punishes the child they love with all their might when the child gets in a fight at school
I too fail to give acceptable human answers to base minded people. I understand the questions. All I can say is. God does not count earthly value for our lives. We do because it's all we know. God sees our soles eternal existence in a much higher way that we don't see.....Yet.
Jesus is a psychological tool which can bring comfort. The religion requires you to stay in a state of cognitive dissonance though in order to work, which is uncomfortable. So then you turn back to Jesus for comfort.
Unless you cry tears of meaning when you think about God and Jesus. How can one gets tears if they do not exist? It is the highest thinkable meaning. He appears in my dreams as well, often just as a man.
That is what I always thought when I was an atheist. But when I read the bible and came to trust in God I KNOW it's real. Jesus was a real historical person. He made huge claims. So he was either a liar or the truth of life. Not a philosophy
As an atheist I like the candidness in his answer. Unfortunately, when he enters the debate mode, he becomes very unpleasant, arrogant, close minded and dismissive.
I'm confused by these kinds of people who find no purpose in a life where they have success, is this the perspective of those that get what they want? who desire more and more? greed? Like genuinely, obtaining a sustainable lifestyle is the purpose for many many many people of the world, they don't have time to think about it or of religion and if they do believe, they don't go too deep into it. If God is whats needed to fill the holes of these troubling times, then why are plenty of christians also the cause of such suffering? sin as far as the eye can see, is it that they are not true believers? or not been instructed properly?
Cliffe using a car crash resulting in loss of life as an example of suffering is kind of funny. That’s the tip of the iceberg; try visiting a third world country…
When you lose someone you truly love and apart of your family especially your 7 year old niece that is far more devastating than visiting a 3rd world country. That's his point and the point the bible also makes. It doesn't matter your status, your wealth, your health.... we all suffer and we all die. But when we have faith in God we find power and feel his presence
Here is what i would ask Cliff about. I would say: "Cliff, I know where it says that homosexuality is wrong in the Bible. (Name the leviticus verse). I know that this is seen as wrong in modern-day societial norms. Today, most countries have legalized gay marriage. Now Cliff where in the Bible does it say pedophilia is wrong? Because God impregnated Mary at the age of 12-14 years of age by Biblical scholars. Why would God set that example!? And if you argue 'well that was just societial norms because of the day and age it was' then why cant we argue for gay marriage today due to societal norms?"
While yes the word pedophilia is not directly stated in the Bible it can be correlated to fornication or ‘lust of the flesh’ which is iterated many times in the Bible. Take Galatians 5:16-21 for example. To tie back into your homosexuality part as well this is also connected by ‘lust of the flesh’ as you know from the stance of Christians.
In todays society the problem isn’t merely age. A lot of people are acting with predatory intentions. To my understanding at the time Mary was of marriageable age at the time, which likely would have placed her and David closer to 14-16. Neither would have been predatory towards each other. They were both consenting. If God had waited a bit longer he may have run out of time before Mary gets married.
Mary being 12-14 is a lie literally made up by Muslims. There is no text that says Mary was that age when she conceived Jesus. Also, you make it sound like God was having sex with her, but that's not what's happening at all.
You do know that both answers are in the Bible, the slavery part is not as we think of slavery today, it is explained in there, also it has and end date if you so choose it as a slave to leave your master at the end of 6 or 7 years I believe, with the killing or eradication of some nations, just think for a moment when was the greatest genocide in the world, of course was God when the flood happened, we are very hypocritically about things because we don’t want to see reality.
@_Sloppyham so do you not agree that a group or nation of people who go around killing and polluting the world should not meet death? God will do whatever he wants
I'm always troubled by the dishonesty or lack of credible evidence when I ask believers to demonstrate that jesus was divine and not use the bible. It's never been done before. That should tell you a lot about the christian doctrine.
Well the Bible is a collection of many different historic documents. The Bible is credible because it’s true that these people lived, died, were in this area at this specific time. Along with archeological discoveries that go right in line with the Bible’s descriptions, and lineages of kings in the Old Testament being accurate and true to real findings, and has actually helped us pinpoint where civilizations used to be and so on. Otherwise if you want extra biblical sources there are the accounts is Josephus in a couple letters, Tacitus, Pliny (more for the existence of Christ Himself) and a good handful more that mention the existence of Jesus, the death of Jesus, and the surge of followers for Jesus at that time. The overwhelming evidence is that the Bible is reliable, that the events of the resurrection are true based off the faith that 11 of the disciples had in keeping it until death, mainly excruciating death. If the resurrection wasn’t true, 10 of these apostles did not have to die, and actually had a very good chance of surviving if they just denounced the name of Christ. But because of what they claimed to have seen, a dead Jesus alive once more, they put their faith in Him, and were willing to live it out until death. the overwhelming evidence then is that Christ I reliable, that His words are true, that His resurrection really did happen. That He is God. If you have any other questions or worries I’d be happy to answer. God bless ❤
like he said theres no way to prove it but the evidence is that God exists. Youre asking someone to prove an event without using the literal collection of every document of it
@@biski350 What evidence would you be referring too? You claim to know of evidence of a supernatural being, which will require supernatural evidence lol. I'm going to just say Hitchens razor applies to this.
@@Vegeta-4101 Well I don’t know dude. All I know is people much smarter than me and with much more experience have very real points. And many things like fine tuning, the argument of how can something come from literal nothing, and objective morality. There’s a very real chance for God and many ways he makes himself known.
@@timdark4733 I don't know what you mean by "fully". Evolution is both fact and theory, its a fact that it has and does occur, with the theory part all the mechanisms that drive it.
@MG-ot2yr really?! Humans have observed a fish turn into a human? Then you can't depend on scientific method can ya?A bolt of lighting and pound scum can create a organism but modern scientists can't? It's fact it has occurred huh?
@@MG-ot2yr So, evolution requires life to come from somewhere, and I'm assuming you believe in abiogenesis as the starting factor. I think that the probability of certain minerals and elements reacting to create the first living cell, is 0. I'll explain why. Life cannot be created in a lab still. That on it's own, shows the complexity of life, what lowers the chance even more, is the fact that abiogenesis requires there to be a planet, and there is no planet without a big bang, and there is no big bang without God, because the big bang cannot create or cause itself from nothing--what rocks dream about. There has to be an external, eternal, uncreated, uncaused, causer.
Jesus is just a cope. What am I living for, and what's the evidence? Others, they're all around me. Jesus retracts from society. The way his followers interpret his word creates a gross, self-centered, society. Also, that third guy misrepresents Frankl
Admitting he doesn't understand it, powerful. Its sucks how the on thing that proves free will doensr exist "emotions" is somehow intertwined with feeling "God's presence" like no, you were in a rut, asked the wall for something, and you felt the power of your own will. When you "feel the presence of god" it's literally your emotions, the same emotion humans have zero control over.
I love his answer!
They have great responses!🙏🏾
I think a big issue with what the third man said is that a lot of everyday people that believe in God experience the same "meaning of life" issues atheists do. Even if you say there is an objective meaning that's not something you can completely believe in at any given moment during your life, the struggle to know why you're on Earth is something everyone goes through at least once in their life (most people go through it a lot more than once though), it's something inherent to the question, even if you have faith you can't confirm it and you suffer from the same issues non-believers do.
He's met a lot of university students and says they have trouble finding a meaning, I've met a lot of people of every kind with different cultures and I can say for certain that it is something universal and not found only in atheists.
Anyone, even Christians can still struggle with knowing their meaning and purpose. It's just that Christians are better able to deal with that struggle because they have a prescribed purpose given to them by God, the purpose to love and serve both him and other people in the world. You can struggle with going from there with "ok but how," and that's the part where you make it personal. Start out small in your local but also find what talents and skills you have and use them to the best of your ability to help make the world a better place. That's pretty much where it's at and it doesn't matter how you do it exactly. Meanwhile, other cultures have their struggles too, but those with a theistic description of where people came from and why they are there gives them an advantage over the atheist who has no system to go off of with "why am I here." Any atheist can say "I'm here to better my society and fellow man" but without a theocratic system or a God to back that up, they're really just making up that meaning in their head. It can be really meaningful, but there's nothing outside of them to validate it so it's not a real dead set purpose. It's just what you choose, because everyone has their subjective desires and sense of purpose; which means it really doesn't matter. Which means we as people don't actually matter. Someone else's purpose can be to make your life without a purpose or meaning, and without a theocratic system in place you can't say that person is wrong. So it's self-defeating
God is by definition the highest meaning one can think of. Because what ''higher'' meaning is there than God? I have been atheist my whole life, but something changed a couple of years ago at my early-mid 20's. I've been in the prescence of God, and cried tears of meaning when thinking about him and his Son Jesus Christ. How can i cry tears of meaning if God did not exist? Is it just a delusion? It being a delusion doesn't make sense either because if believing in God is a net-force for good then it is meaningful and sound. My life has improved after these events. No question about it!
@@97alexk this is one of those arguments with no head or tail, the fact that your life improved doesn't demonstrate anything. Someone's life could have improved after they started using drugs, that doesn't make drugs good though.
About the meaning part, yes God might be the highest meaning you can think of, still doesn't necessarily make him real. Also there's a lot of different gods you could believe in that have this so-called meaning so that's not a reason to specifically choose the christian one.
And my point was never about the meaning of God, my point was about the uncertainty of the question itself and how it can never completely bring you out of the struggle that is the search for meaning because it's simply unanswerable. The most you could say is that christians can sometimes find comfort in the idea that God exists but it's not a cure-all remedy that will make you never question life again, that's just not a thing.
@@97alexk I agree that a theory of meaning dictated by a higher power (as in a god) is better suited for living without the dread of questioning existence but my point is that the inherent uncertainty of faith makes it so everyone struggles equally in the face of the question. You say a christian is better suited to deal with the question but if your answer is on the basis of religion then you still have an inherent doubt caused by the fact that you can't be certain God exists, the moment your belief in God falters then the question automatically reappears in your head. As long as we don't know our meaning objectively we cannot really escape the feelings it causes and a christian doesn't have any more certainty than an atheist does.
Also if your only reason for believing in a religion is the fact that it gives meaning to your life do you actually believe in it or are you deceiving yourself because the alternative is not having an answer? This argument doesn't really work as proof of religion.
@ I agree with you definitely. Also, I'm unsure if I really am a Christian. I believe in God, and in Jesus, But i don't think some events in the Bible actually happened in real time. Like Adam and Eve for example or the splitting of the red sea. But the stories themselves are still significant because they are very deep.
Also it does give meaning in my life. But not 24/7. However as soon as i start thinking about God from my personal view, and not what others think about it, it instantly confirms my existence in a way. It's assuring for a person who struggles with everything feeling inauthentic. However there could be a possibility that i am deceiving myself. But that is not certain either. And frankly its irrelevant to me personally, because i feel that it gives meaning. So isn't that evidence in of itself?
But i agree with you, with the doubt of it all being a thought-ghost of mine. It enters my mind every week, but i can feel God looking at me from a distance, in the corner of my eye.
Good job cliffs. 👍👍 for telling the truth.
Specifically the beginning of your response.
My brother was healed of cancer, all the proof i'd ever need
So... why did god give him cancer in the first place?
That’s wonderful, glory be to God🙏🏾
@@henno3889God doesn’t give people cancer “Every good thing comes from the Lord” James 1:17.
@DropofGoodness So is cancer from the devil? Did got not beget satan? If there is a god, it is the universe; Everything considered good, evil, and all that's in between.
@@Musashi it’s not from the devil as such, it goes back to the fall of Adam, this is where sin entered the world. Following that is where disease and illness came and all these terrible things. But as Cliffe said it is a very difficult topic.
Such a great video! ❤
Glad you liked it!!❤
I legit saw a ladder going into heaven, I was told the truth is the bible, was shown Jesus, after being in hell and crying out with my soul for something to save me. God is real
You should realize that science has disproved the entirety of Genesis. This alone should be enough evidence that the bible is not reliable for facts.
@@PROVEIT2 how has science disproved genesis? if anything the world makes more sense through genesis
@"how has science disproved genesis? " LOL. Are you saying you honestly believe our universe was created in 6 days? I hope not, but that's a reason why. Good luck my friend.
@"I legit saw a ladder going into heaven," I'm sure you think you did, but how can you demonstrate that what you saw wasn't an hallucination? Good luck.
@@PROVEIT2 science says life came from bioactive mud pools and lightning. God created Adam through clay (mud) and breathed a soul into him (God has a breath of lightning). So genesis lines up with science. Then now 6 days is not just one day less than a week. It may be 818183737817273187633778188 days or something else. We do not know because God is not in the dimention of time. If you study linear algebra you will understand how time is the fourth dimention. Now question yourself if it would make more sense for God to tell us that he breathed life into us or that he would explain evolution and teach linear algebra. Hope that helps.
What brilliant answers! God created us with a God shaped hole in our hearts. I believe the purpose is for God to be happy because He is perfect and He wants us to be happy. He loves us so much He died for us.
"God created us with a God shaped hole in our hearts." The two things wrong with that remark is that you haven't demonstrated your god is real and that hearts do not have holes in them.
@@PROVEIT2 not a literal hole 😂
[srman]: "He loves us so much He died for us."
God is immortal. He cannot die. He's hoping you won't think about that.
@"God is immortal. He cannot die" How do you know this and how can you prove this? Good luck.
@" not a literal hole " LOL. You refuted my comment about hearts, but you went quiet about evidence for god. That's quiet telling isn't it? Good luck my friend.
I was a Christian for 20 years but could not find objective meaning or purpose there either. When I thought I'd found it I couldn't find other Christians to share it with. Every Christian I met had a different God. Usually one that was okay with what they were doing but not okay with what others were doing. I'm not saying they were bad people because they weren't. They were great people. They were loving and generous like 95% of the time. Strangely enough what seemed to bring out the most animosity among them was talking about this one true God we all claimed to believe in.
If a person is inspired and lives a meaningful life, why rob them from such beauty?
Yeah the problem of evil, suffering and divine hidiness are all issues with any religion that claims a God who is omnipotent omniscient and also benevolent.
The reformed tradition offers the best solutions to these questions, and is logically consistent.
But the answer is sufficient lol. How can you have love without hate? How can we appreciate pleasure without ever feeling pain? Can we ever learn to love the sun if we never feel rain? How can we walk in faith if we know for a fact God is there?
How can you attempt to logically discern the machinations of a perfect being who in speculation is larger, more intelligent, and older than our perceived universe? Even our greatest mathematicians still can’t properly conceptualize infinity yet you wish to curb the power of an infinite being with our little tiny human ideals of morality. We know nothing. Accept it and walk in faith towards a higher purpose. It’a the only recourse.
@ I believe in a God who isn’t isn’t dependent on hate, pain, and evil, to create love, pleasure, and goodness. Why does your view of God have such limitations? It makes no logically sense?
@ you’re attempting to logically understand the machinations of literally consciousness and the universe itself. You are maybe too stupid to realize that you actually cannot comprehend nor fathom how things came to be. There’s no Tedtalk, no class, book, or religion that can teach your little tiny human brain what the hell this existence is and how it came to be.
Now you want to take that and surmise a petty little thing like human emotion somehow determines that the author of creation could not be good. I think your understanding of logic itself is pretty limited if that’s your assumption. What’s the alternative? Nonexistence? Infinite nothingness? What are we talking about here? To my understanding I live in a world where I can decide where to go and I can find love and I can also experience hardship and tragedy and even malevolence, or maybe things like hope, joy, success, pleasure, etc..
The existence of your negative emotions does not imply that the creator of said emotions are evil. I would say that the creation itself was an act of ultimate goodness, but you’ve forgotten that because you take the breath of life for granted.
@@charles21137the Christian God does not propagate hatred or pain or evil. He is described as good and proves it in how he provides and loves his creation. But he also can't just be "mercy and peace" all the time because evil is very real and has to be dealt with, if he actually loves his creation. Evil and hatred are things that come from man, not from God. He is good in all ways so those are not even possible for him. He's not limited in that sense, but he restrains himself by making humans able to freely choose. And humans freely choose to rebuke him and slander down on other people, and hate them and torture and kill. It's not God's fault those happen, because those were within our power and we chose to do them. He will certainly punish wrong, just like a parent punishes the child they love with all their might when the child gets in a fight at school
Free will, Reason shapes and nurtures and sophistication with less than upto date state of mind is why..
I too fail to give acceptable human answers to base minded people. I understand the questions. All I can say is. God does not count earthly value for our lives. We do because it's all we know. God sees our soles eternal existence in a much higher way that we don't see.....Yet.
good point and interesting way of putting it
We understand english, why these weird subtitles?
I think Cliff should dig deeper in Apologetics. There's tons of objective evidence out there, outside of his own subjective feelings
Jesus is a psychological tool which can bring comfort. The religion requires you to stay in a state of cognitive dissonance though in order to work, which is uncomfortable. So then you turn back to Jesus for comfort.
Unless you cry tears of meaning when you think about God and Jesus. How can one gets tears if they do not exist? It is the highest thinkable meaning. He appears in my dreams as well, often just as a man.
That is what I always thought when I was an atheist. But when I read the bible and came to trust in God I KNOW it's real. Jesus was a real historical person. He made huge claims. So he was either a liar or the truth of life. Not a philosophy
As an atheist I like the candidness in his answer. Unfortunately, when he enters the debate mode, he becomes very unpleasant, arrogant, close minded and dismissive.
2:30 responsibility answers that
Yes it does!
I'm confused by these kinds of people who find no purpose in a life where they have success, is this the perspective of those that get what they want? who desire more and more? greed? Like genuinely, obtaining a sustainable lifestyle is the purpose for many many many people of the world, they don't have time to think about it or of religion and if they do believe, they don't go too deep into it. If God is whats needed to fill the holes of these troubling times, then why are plenty of christians also the cause of such suffering? sin as far as the eye can see, is it that they are not true believers? or not been instructed properly?
There are zero problems in the bible... the problem is we aren't capable of understanding it all
Cliffe using a car crash resulting in loss of life as an example of suffering is kind of funny. That’s the tip of the iceberg; try visiting a third world country…
Or a child hospital with kids that have cancer etc.
When you lose someone you truly love and apart of your family especially your 7 year old niece that is far more devastating than visiting a 3rd world country. That's his point and the point the bible also makes. It doesn't matter your status, your wealth, your health.... we all suffer and we all die. But when we have faith in God we find power and feel his presence
frankel not francle
Here is what i would ask Cliff about. I would say:
"Cliff, I know where it says that homosexuality is wrong in the Bible. (Name the leviticus verse). I know that this is seen as wrong in modern-day societial norms. Today, most countries have legalized gay marriage. Now Cliff where in the Bible does it say pedophilia is wrong? Because God impregnated Mary at the age of 12-14 years of age by Biblical scholars. Why would God set that example!? And if you argue 'well that was just societial norms because of the day and age it was' then why cant we argue for gay marriage today due to societal norms?"
While yes the word pedophilia is not directly stated in the Bible it can be correlated to fornication or ‘lust of the flesh’ which is iterated many times in the Bible. Take Galatians 5:16-21 for example. To tie back into your homosexuality part as well this is also connected by ‘lust of the flesh’ as you know from the stance of Christians.
What source or verse says Mary was 12-14 years old ?
In todays society the problem isn’t merely age. A lot of people are acting with predatory intentions.
To my understanding at the time Mary was of marriageable age at the time, which likely would have placed her and David closer to 14-16. Neither would have been predatory towards each other. They were both consenting.
If God had waited a bit longer he may have run out of time before Mary gets married.
Mary being 12-14 is a lie literally made up by Muslims. There is no text that says Mary was that age when she conceived Jesus. Also, you make it sound like God was having sex with her, but that's not what's happening at all.
You do know that both answers are in the Bible, the slavery part is not as we think of slavery today, it is explained in there, also it has and end date if you so choose it as a slave to leave your master at the end of 6 or 7 years I believe, with the killing or eradication of some nations, just think for a moment when was the greatest genocide in the world, of course was God when the flood happened, we are very hypocritically about things because we don’t want to see reality.
And what about the amalekites? Why would an all loving GOD instruct Israelites to kill even the infants?
Why would GOD allow the beating of slaves and that you can take any slave from any surrounding nation and they will be your "property"?
You justify mass murder by bringing up more mass murder? Seriously?
@@_Sloppyham What God ''wills'' we cannot judge. We are still to young and naive in our morals!
@_Sloppyham so do you not agree that a group or nation of people who go around killing and polluting the world should not meet death? God will do whatever he wants
God exists, He is all things. God is love sure, but He is also your worst nightmare. Read the Old testament. Disturbing.
I'm always troubled by the dishonesty or lack of credible evidence when I ask believers to demonstrate that jesus was divine and not use the bible. It's never been done before. That should tell you a lot about the christian doctrine.
Well the Bible is a collection of many different historic documents. The Bible is credible because it’s true that these people lived, died, were in this area at this specific time. Along with archeological discoveries that go right in line with the Bible’s descriptions, and lineages of kings in the Old Testament being accurate and true to real findings, and has actually helped us pinpoint where civilizations used to be and so on. Otherwise if you want extra biblical sources there are the accounts is Josephus in a couple letters, Tacitus, Pliny (more for the existence of Christ Himself) and a good handful more that mention the existence of Jesus, the death of Jesus, and the surge of followers for Jesus at that time.
The overwhelming evidence is that the Bible is reliable, that the events of the resurrection are true based off the faith that 11 of the disciples had in keeping it until death, mainly excruciating death. If the resurrection wasn’t true, 10 of these apostles did not have to die, and actually had a very good chance of surviving if they just denounced the name of Christ. But because of what they claimed to have seen, a dead Jesus alive once more, they put their faith in Him, and were willing to live it out until death. the overwhelming evidence then is that Christ I reliable, that His words are true, that His resurrection really did happen.
That He is God.
If you have any other questions or worries I’d be happy to answer. God bless ❤
like he said theres no way to prove it but the evidence is that God exists. Youre asking someone to prove an event without using the literal collection of every document of it
@Xorldz you do realize there isn't a single scripture or eyewitness of Jesus or his miracles in his lifetime outside the Bible . No Roman no nothing
@@biski350 What evidence would you be referring too? You claim to know of evidence of a supernatural being, which will require supernatural evidence lol. I'm going to just say Hitchens razor applies to this.
@@Vegeta-4101 Well I don’t know dude. All I know is people much smarter than me and with much more experience have very real points. And many things like fine tuning, the argument of how can something come from literal nothing, and objective morality. There’s a very real chance for God and many ways he makes himself known.
I think Cliffe's doubts are greater than his lets on, but he clearly has a very strong reinforcement regimen to cling to his beliefs...
You believe in evolution fully?
@@timdark4733 I don't know what you mean by "fully". Evolution is both fact and theory, its a fact that it has and does occur, with the theory part all the mechanisms that drive it.
@MG-ot2yr really?! Humans have observed a fish turn into a human? Then you can't depend on scientific method can ya?A bolt of lighting and pound scum can create a organism but modern scientists can't? It's fact it has occurred huh?
@@MG-ot2yr So, evolution requires life to come from somewhere, and I'm assuming you believe in abiogenesis as the starting factor. I think that the probability of certain minerals and elements reacting to create the first living cell, is 0. I'll explain why. Life cannot be created in a lab still. That on it's own, shows the complexity of life, what lowers the chance even more, is the fact that abiogenesis requires there to be a planet, and there is no planet without a big bang, and there is no big bang without God, because the big bang cannot create or cause itself from nothing--what rocks dream about. There has to be an external, eternal, uncreated, uncaused, causer.
Jesus is just a cope. What am I living for, and what's the evidence? Others, they're all around me.
Jesus retracts from society. The way his followers interpret his word creates a gross, self-centered, society.
Also, that third guy misrepresents Frankl
The opposite seems to be the case. Taking your comment as evidence!
@97alexk good. You should, because you must. Strengthen that faith, bud.
@ Indeed i must, but it is hard!
bad ai
Admitting he doesn't understand it, powerful. Its sucks how the on thing that proves free will doensr exist "emotions" is somehow intertwined with feeling "God's presence" like no, you were in a rut, asked the wall for something, and you felt the power of your own will. When you "feel the presence of god" it's literally your emotions, the same emotion humans have zero control over.
False
Good luck convincing anyone that that’s the case.
@@archiewall124I was convinced lol. Not by op but the claims themselves from people a few years ago.
Gods presence can be felt without it being emotions.
@@emberguard5009 I’ll bite, in what way can it be felt that is not emotional in some way? Unless you mean seen instead of “felt”