THE EYES. In The Irishmen they were my biggest issue aside what you mentioned. A 35-40 year old man with clouded eyes is very strange. It totally broke the illusion for me. I think that they found that messing with the eyes in CGI, this is, deaging eyes or it still not possible or it would take the actor´s performance totally to the uncanny valley.
Yeah but he just fixed the cgi using a already de-aged video, he didn't de-aging DE niro from 80 to 50, he just fixed a long process that he had avoid, I mean, i saw that video and definitely looks better than the movie but don't forget the long process of the cgi crew in this movie, isn't so cool but still fantastic
I just saw that and found it was a little overdone in some scenes. What I have to say though that bothered me about the original de-aging was that they seem to have forgotten about the eyes! What this reworking does right mostly in my opinion is the eyes. The lustre is back in the eyeballs of a 30/40 something year old. I think finding a middle ground between the two would yield the best results. As for facial build that would still be something that needs tweakin. Finally pasting the facial performance on a body double would probably sell the illusion completely.
@@Kwantummeekanniks Mixing 2 things (like body double + head) is something they usually avoid (since they typically state that blending 2 things together is the most work)
@@Kwantummeekanniks what bothers me the most are the upperlips. Old people never have upperlips (this is a good example) because their upperjaws start to recess (maxilla)...so they need to give people upperlips !
Robert De Niro’s face structure was intentionally left without slimming as his character Frank Sheeran had a wide structure not a slimmer structure like De Niro in taxi driver
Was going to comment this. Also, the de-aging in The Irishman is not "just a filter". It is a fully CG face retargeted onto mocap data. The only different between this and Gemini man is that Will Smith performed all the young scenes on a mocap stage afterwords, whereas the Irishman is all captured in-camera on set.
The issue is that Frank Sheeran's face shape stays the same the whole film. No one's face shape does that. Go look at pictures of a young and an old Frank Sheeran. There's one of him with his first wife when he's fairly young that you can find on Google. His face shape changed heaps.
Yeah, de-aging DEFINITELY isn’t there yet. One of my few gripes with The Irishman; it constantly took me out of the movie, especially since you could clearly see these younger dude’s heads on older bodies. I’m not gonna say it was better in Captain Marvel, but it took me out of that movie less with Sam Jackson.
They didn't have much work to do with Samuel Jackson, for a guy in his 70s he got around great and was pretty badass in the latest Shaft movie.....No comparison to De Niro stumbling around like Henry Fonda in "On Golden Pond" when he's supposed to be a hitman in his 30s and 40s.
I think Terminator Dark Fate did an amazing job for one of the earlier scenes in the film. Different Actor with head replacement. Of course the scene was short and Arnold didn't talk or anything but Linda Hamilton did and it was amazing and it surely felt like a 4k restoration of a deleted scene from T2! I might be wrong, but it was impressive!
For me, it was the other way around... I loved the movie so much that I forgot they were de-aged by the time I finished watching it... The movie consumed me and left me with some deep thoughts that overcame any technological errors it was suffering from...
Dude, you're wrong about how the effects in Irishman were constructed. It wasn't a filter on top of footage; they *did* overlay the original faces with CGI. Check out the Netflix documentary.
looks horrible anyway, so it doesnt really metter. they did it more advanced but the final product still looks like trash deaging filter lol, thats saying something
@@tacitus3591 Yeah, the faces look like HD faces, but they look too old and they look weird compared to how they looked young in real life. Robert de Niro never looked like he looks in The Irishman. Same with the other actors.
Scorsese and De Niro were adamant about not using headgear like Gemini Man/Planet of the Apes trilogy as they believed it would stand in the way of the performances. They developed this new technique with ILM for this reason. Probably should have mentioned this in the video. I think we are just a few years from finding the perfect techniques to de-age characters; like the digital revolution of the 90s/2000s we will likely see more examples like this in which filmmakers rely too heavily on a single technique (CGI on top of everything), but overtime filmmakers will learn more of the weaknesses and strengths of digital de-aging and gradually incorporate other more methods such as body doubles for more physical scenes, make-up or even digitally altering a younger actor more to the likeness of an older actor. EXCITING TIMES WE LIVE IN!!
From what I've read, the process for The Irishman was similar to that used in Gemini Man. Every shot of an actor's face was shot with 3 Red cameras to make sure they had a multidimensional view of the dots on their faces so they could construct a computer-generated version of the actors' performances. Doesn't do anything about the body language, though.
i read that scorsese didnt want it to be shot like gemini man because he thought having giant weird looking hats on the actors heads would be distracting. He didnt want them to have dots on either
Yeah, it’s realllllly iffy in this movie, especially having seen it in theaters. The butcher scene is literally impossible, like how tf did they let that in the movie??
If you have the technology and want to make the character appear like the original real-life character, just overlay DeNiro completely, don't make a fat old DeNiro. They primarily tried to portray that the character is YOUNG and it failed.
Different actor with full CG face replacement is the way to go in my opinion. Unless the age difference is small enough for the physicality of the actor to go unnoticed
They did this well for young Johnny Depp in the latest Pirates movie......I also wonder if some kind of enhancement without replacing the actor can be done for the body like they do with the face. They didn't do anything like that of course. They could have at least asked De Niro to exert a little more effort briefly in certain scenes to try not to move as old. He certainly doesn't seem like he'd be willing to go to the gym a bit to get more spry for a role.
2:33 That is officially the worst scene in the entire movie. I fast-forward every time because it baffles me why this was left in the film. I kept forgetting exactly how old Frank was supposed to be in this film because when it came to movement, De Niro is just too old. Moments like these, though few and far between, took me completely out of the movie and it really surprises me that Scorsese left it in here. Yes, the wide shot would have been an impressive shot, but it shows everything and that is the issue. This would have been a good time to cut in closer to show more intensity, or POV shots so that way it could disguise what it really looked like (which was goofy). While I admire Scorsese's ambition with the CG tech, I don't think it really worked as well as he would have hoped. In these instances, casting another acting may have worked better, or hell, put a double in there and CG De Niro's face onto him (it worked pretty well in Captain America). That would sell this scene much better.
@@danielpopescu7404 for the rest of the film, I never noticed it nor got distracted by it again because I was too into the story. But that one scene stood out like a sore thumb.
There's this thing that old people get when they get older. Moist mouth corners. Saliva pools in the mouth corners because the mouth droops when you get older. This was always visible with Pacino in The Irishman. I could never unsee it.
I really like the movie. Yes, I did notice the old man movements, I looked past it. I just love mafia movies...especially biographical ones. Not sure how accurate it is, but they’re portraying real mobsters
I think it was a pretty conscious artistic choice. Having virtually younger characters that move like older people (beacause the actors are) actually says a lot about the film itself. Old age is almost like a ghost that passes through those characters' lives. It carries a weight on the acting that spoke a lot to me.
It is good! I'd just watch it, if you haven't already. Filter out the noise, and check out the work as a whole. If you hate it afterwards, at least you tried.
It’s a great movie. Watch it. I know it’s hard after watching this video, but look past it. Some people were complaining about it being boring, but it’s biographical, an action film.
I agree somewhat with the movement argument, however, it's hard to support it here given that we hardly really see De Niro's character as a young man. He's middle-aged or later for the vast majority of the film. Secondarily, this video misses the same point that others have when they talk about face slimming, etc. That would be a valid argument if they were trying to make him look like a younger De Niro, but they aren't. They're trying to make him look like a younger version of the CHARACTER, Frank Sheeran. And that's actually part of the problem because we all know what the younger versions of these actors look like so it feels off to us when that isn't how a de-aged version of the character appears. It isn't the uncanny valley, it's.....something new. Also, while I appreciate the alternate method that Gemini Man took as far as a CGI body that can more accurately match Will Smith's build from his youth, the movement is actually worse in my opinion because they took motion capture from Will Smith and then tried to artificially re-animate it and speed ramp parts of it to separate it from how he moves now. The resulting effect is VERY jarring and took me out of the film far more than anything that happened in The Irishman.
Well it was a bad move in an otherwise great movie. I can't tell you how many times De Niro's CGI face and fake blue eyes took me out of the story. Throw in his 70+ year old body movements and hunch, and it really did spoil being able to fully enjoy the movie. Scorsese as always is a narrative genius, but this face tech has a ways to go...
That's just completely pointless to me. If you have the technology and want to make the character appear like the original real-life character, just overlay DeNiro completely, don't make a fat old DeNiro. They primarily tried to portray that the character is YOUNG and it failed.
Yeah, I think a better route to go would be like in David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
They tried and they failed simple as that. Sad and disappointing as the old actors are simply ignoring they produced a piece of shit at their dying age
I feel like Scorsese just focuses on the actors. The characters they play and their performance. I feel like he doesn't really notice the finer details we younger viewers care. In the end he cares how the actors interact and how it can impact the story. To me if they modify the production to fit the modern way with motion capture or tracking markers, he wouldn't want it. In the production itself they didn't want to use any tracking markers for the deaging process, it was groundbreaking. So if they replaced everything I feel like Scorsese would think it's disingenuous
I've only seen the first half of The Irishman, but I see where you're coming from about it. You're spot on about De Niro's movements and physicality. The film where I first noticed this sort of issue was actually Red Dragon, where the 65 year old Hopkins is playing a younger version of the role he played at 54 in Silence of the Lambs. Now that 10 years isn't a lot, and he's still in good shape physically, and he's "acting" the role quite young in terms of movement and energy, but he physically looks shorter and more stocky. Partly because they don't shoot him in the same way, but also because he's legitimately a good 10 years older, and those are... BIG years age wise. I think you're right as to the CGI route, or the CGI face on another actor, a'la what they did with Christopher Lee in the Star Wars and Hobbit films when they needed Saruman and Dooku to participate in fight scenes that the nonagenarian Lee could no longer perform.
But the point is, that the faces and hands of the deaged actors ARE completely digital. You may take a look at the making of the deagingfx on netflix‘ channel...
But they didn't use tracking dots like Will Smith's cause Scorsese didn't want them. Instead, they had to use two reference cameras and try to match the motion. The result looks off.
I am glad you brought up Gemini Man, as that was what I thought of immediately when you brought up the issues with de-aging when compared to overlaying a face on another. Samuel L Jackson's performance in Captain Marvel was great, but the moment he had to move I had the same issue with it, it can pull you out of a movie. The method used in Gemini Man also served the movie well, as Young Will Smith moves like a young man would, while Old Will Smith moves like you would expect a man his age to move.
I think the de-aging process of De Niro was the most painfull to watch, specificaly all the scene wher his character is under 50 years old. Pacino and Pecci where fine, but these ones were lacking. Watching the "Deepfaking" videos lately I spoted the details that where bothering. His lips and eyelid changed drasticaly. I would also suggest that if they used younger body double for some of the more physical scenes shot in wide angle, helped with a cgi face, It would have helped. Outside of that I love The Irishman, I felt it was a look back at all the Scorsese gangster films.
Agreed. I feel like the perfect example of how to do de-aging right is in GOTG 2; the flashback scene was shot twice, one with Kurt Russell wearing a motion capture headset, and another with a body double. The production team used the 2nd footage with the body double and digitally pasted Russell’s face over the body double.
I think the solution to your first issue would be using a different, younger actor for the physicality and full body shots with a CG face superimposed onto them. I know people had issues with the way it looked, but Luke in The Mandalorian is an example of this. You can theoretically have any actor at any age using this method (if the CG work is done well of course). I guess this opens up a moral dilemma of sorts, in figuring out who exactly should be credited as what. The guy who lends his face and voice is the lead? The guy who's actually doing the movement and motion and whose body is actually on the screen, is he the lead too? Is that person simply a glorified body double? Tangent: Also is it ethical to cast a dead person in a starring role when he can't even consent to it, even if his estate cashes the check? We've seen cameos like this with Tarkin and Leia, but it is almost possible to bring back Brando, James Dean, Heath Ledger, John Candy, John Belushi, 2Pac, Bea Arthur, or anyone, and have them play the lead role for an entire movie. Voice-alikes and digital effects could handle their dialog, body doubles with a CG face could handle the visuals. I dunno, but I think it's a question that will arise within the next 10-20 years as studios start to realize what the possibilities are and as CG continues to improve. Maybe they already know? Maybe guys like Tom Hanks, Johnny Depp, Morgan Freeman and Tom Cruise are busy recording as many voice samples and motion capture samples as they can so that they can live on and star in an infinite amount of films after they pass away? Make sure their descendants are taken care of for all time.
I watched the movie right after reading the book. What I couldn't buy was DeNiro as a 6'4" Irishman. Sheeran's physicality, his size, was a big part of his story. First shot in the movie of old Frank, I said, that's my father (Salvatore, 1000% Italian).
There's a video on RUclips that shows how free software would've worked significantly better than the de-aging technology Netflix spent millions on lol
it’s definitely different from the age discrepancies in goodfellas. when i first watched goodfellas, i was a little bothered by the glaring age differences. (esp henry and jimmy.) but now goodfellas is one of my favorite movies and i kind of just ignore the aging issue. even though the actors were much older than the parts they played, they still moved like younger men would. but i have honestly put off watching the irishman because i thought the de-aging tech would pull me out of it. i remember reading reviews for the irishman and one said “goodfellas is about criminals who live and die fast. the irishman is a film where the criminals live and die slow.” i just saw killers of the flower moon and loved it, so it might be time to give the irishman another go.
I hadn't even heard about the controversy over this film's bad de-aging effects when I watched it for the first time awhile back, and it still immediately jumped out at me as soon as I started watching. The part where Pesci's character calls DeNiro's character "kid" was insane, especially considering the fact that DeNiro was shambling around like an old man in every scene. Hilarious. Good movie though...
I think it's just an Italian American thing to call someone your junior a kid, even if they're old. Frank Sheeran wasn't supposed to be 20 years in that scene anyways, more just middle aged, he was also a war veteran too.
I’m 26, and I notice a difference between how I move now vs when I was 15-18. So I can only imagine how different the movement of a 40 year old vs an 80 year old will be…
A prime example of the "aged movement" is Hero Boy in Polar Express. He was played by, and modeled to resemble Tom Hanks, but the adult performance capture retargeted to a child's proportions means the character looks too mature at times. Very jarring once you notice it. I'm a 3D animator myself and am currently busy working on realistic human faces.
To solve the body movement issues i would have simply projected the actors de-aged face onto a stop motion animated body to make the scenes look more realistic.
Love The Irishman. The de-agimg is a little distracting at first, and yes you can tell that their motions are a bit more stiff than if we were looking at Senior from Taxi Driver -- but that is a different character. I simply chalked it all up to character. This man, Frank Sheeran, has lived a life and a half even at his young age. It also simply feels like an artistic touch that I cannot fault the movie or the director for. I enjoyed it thoroughly and multiple times.
IMO it was not the "De-aging" but the actual "Aging" that works. Of course there is no way they are gonna convince you that they can make Robert De Niro look like he was in his late 30s. They can convince you however the characters (Not the actors) have aged 4-5 decades within the story of the movie. Not just physically of course. Remember when Joe Pesci played Tommy in Goodfellas? The real Tommy was 28 years old at the time he got murdered, sure shit, if you nitpicked that movie today, there is no way they are gonna convince you that Joe was in his late 20s. He was 47 at the time if I am not mistaken. Remember in the movie, Tommy was supposed to be around the same age as Henry. However, because the character was just so engaging to watch, you will stop caring what age he is supposed to be in the movie. Besides I honestly could not see how else this movie could have been if the actors were different
I agree with you, the best part of the movie is basically after you see Frank Sheeran's ceremony, and it's because they act naturally due to the nature of the characters, which at that point of the movie, are old characters, that is basically when De Niro shines. This was a risky project, specially because to cast different actors to act the younger versions of De Niro or Pacino would've been very hard to do. I enjoy the last one hour and a half of the Irishman, I think the narrative is great and I think Joe Pesci was brilliant in general, but the de-aging was not the peak of the movie and it can be distractive.
The reason why they didn't do the face tracking CG thing that they did in Gemini Man, with the face rig set up, was because Scorsese and the actors didn't want to do a scene with all this gear attached to them. It would take them out of the acting part of it and would weaken the performances. That's what Scorsese said. The nuances of the performances would be lost by the ridiculousness of what they were wearing, there would be a disconnect. I understand why Scorsese was hesitant, but the truth is, this de-aging tech just wouldn't quite work the same as he would have hoped. And it is a little ironic how Scorsese is obsessed with the nuances yet the nuances of how you act when you're younger vs. older seem to have passed him by. But I do love this movie, faults and all. I have rewatched it like 3 times now and there are some fantastic scenes here, mainly towards the end between Pesci, De Niro, and Pacino.
@@One.Zero.One101 exactly! These men are just, unfortunately, too old. You can tell in their performances that they're not as young as they're supposed to be in the scene (grocery store kick scene).
I scrolled quite a lot and couldn't find a single comment about their voices too. It's probably the easiest part to tweak in post-production, it definitely affects how we perceive a character on screen, and still no one seems to complain or talk about. As we get older, our vocal cords change. The voice gets lower and develops a raspiness of sorts. We often do the opposite when we age someone, even with make-up. Actors are guided to perform with a lower register and drier throat (e.g. Chris Evans as old Captain America). Old actors can't really pull off the opposite, so directors should find ways in editing.
My big beef with the Irishman is that is was too damn long - unnecessarily. I didn't notice the movements of the aged actors until you pointed it out... which makes me like this film less :( All things considered, I thought the story was good enough for me to hang in until the end and learn things I never knew, like the influence of the Teamsters and it's influence in politics.
You highlighted about two different scenes where it's arguably more noticable but then added in others when Sheeran is supposed to be in his 50s, when he's walking over WET rocks and throwing the gun in the water or hugging Tony Pro. What's wrong with those scenes and the movement. That was nitpicking.
As much as I love Scorsese’s movies and partly because I didn’t know the story, I had trouble trying to make sense of the age the characters were supposed to be. Hiring younger actors would’ve been the best way to go but surely a pretty complicated job for the casting director. Yet, I get if Scorsese wanted to play an homage to the actors and let them all shine together.
Issue was that the actors weren’t on board for the digital process where they had yo wear tracking equipment. However I completely agree that it didn’t look that convincing, due to De Niro’s aged physicality.
They did not just apply a filter, or smooth over the wrinkles. They did use markers in a sense- they used infrared cameras alongside the regular camera to track the facial movements of the actors, then used digital replacement technics. Same process, newer technology. And, they could have gotten around the 'old bodies' thing by using body doubles for more action-y scenes and digital head replacement like in Benjamin Button, Blade Runner 2049 or that Captain America movie. The 'young guys moving like old guys' is what takes me out of the movie.
I was thinking about this process when I heard Paramount considered getting William Shatner back to play Kirk. My feeling is Jim Kirk would never allow himself to become old Shatner. But digitally map Shatner's face, give him a cgi diet, and project his performance on the head of an old but in shape actor.
I was ready to shit on your video but you made excellent points. Scorsese himself was aware of the posture problems in the film. He talks a little about it in the Netflix "in conversation". I think at the end of the day it ended up being a directorial choice. Any other director would have cast younger actors, and only kept the cast for their aged scenes. But Scorsese treats his films like theater in the sense of "performance". His actors are performers, and their performance is an integral part of the movie. He can't have anyone else act in his films, it just wouldn't be the same. The same reason he refused that the actors would wear any motion capture gear. "The actors need to play off each other". Scorsese chronicles the aging of the characters in the film, but also of himself and the cast. His interview with the New York Times is the perfect reference for that. I think that's one of the reasons for the casting/CGI choice in this film. Personally, I think this is one of Scorsese's best pictures. It's a slow burner, that's for sure, so I can understand how some people didn't enjoy it Excellent video on your part.
Yeah, I never had a problem with de-aging visual effects. But bad de-aging is what I don't like, and Gemini Man and The Irishman are examples of that. But good de-aging would be like in David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
I do notice that they veryyy slightly decreased the size of the nose and ears, one MAJOR issue they looked over was the lips, they forgot that lips are fuller when young, Denison had thin lips the whole film
Not to mention their hands. But the funniest, and most pathetic scene in the irishman though is when robert deniro was trying a bouncy walk to look younger.
Imagine calling pathetic a scene of such an amazing movie, you guys just want fucking miracles. If they're would've used full cgi you would've still complain about it
They should have used a body double and mixed his performance with De Niro's performance, then put his face on the body double's face and de-age it. Also, as for the de-age effect they should have decreased the ears, nose and mouth size.
In my opinion, I thought that the vfx were fine. They weren’t as outstanding as Samuel Jackson in Captain Marvel, or Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator Genisys, but they’re not bad like young Will Smith in the last scene of Gemini Man. However, if there’s anything we learned from Captain Marvel, while you can make an actor look younger, you can’t make him move younger.
Would love an update to this video with Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny de-aging. I hated that they used his old man voice with a younger actor who did not move like young Indy. Though the CGI was still pretty good. Better than Tarkin...
I think de-aging looks good enough for face shots it really does not matter but they really sure use body doubles for the full body shots to make sure they move like the right age
I have that problem with these 80s actors that are trying to make a come back making action movies,it doesn't feel right i rather go with the nostalgia and rewatch them with the old movies.time catches up
I thought i was the only one who saw this I'm a huge fan of Scorsese and his style of filmmaking It always had something pure, clean but raw to me with the lack of cgi and the importance of a good story. Seeing a old man desperatly trying to look young made me kinda sad. The absence of wrinkles doesn't make you look young and it doesn't help to oversaturate the eyes in a blue that is so obviously fake, it hurts the part of me that wanted to love this movie. It was the movie I couldn't wait to see and I turned it off.
I didn’t mind the CGI. It’s more everything else about the actor, although it still wasn’t much of a problem for me. It doesn’t look like a 30-40 year old DeNiro, but it’s not DeNiro. It’s Frank Sheeran. I don’t know Frank’s mannerism, or what he looked like when he was younger, so anything that feels off I can just chalk up to Frank’s character. He fights like an 80 year old man? That’s because he’s inexperienced. He’s not Rambo. He’s an honest who just started getting in business with the Mafia. He probably hadn’t fought anyone in over 10 years let alone much at all at this point.
Bravo, great revue, you said what others were afraid to mention,why the couldn't hire younger actors? My version - Scorcese wanted to get top buck for his friends and for himself
Yeah, I think if creators want "de-age" an actor, they should take notes from David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
For me when I watched the film as a whole the examples of the de aging not working didn’t really bother me that much. I guess the performance of the actors were too good for me to really not care a lot about the times where they should’ve used a stand in (like the grocery scene). That and while it looked off at first I got used to the younger looking actors.
The Irishman's is not de-ageing, it's de-wrinkling. Great video, you brought up everything I was thinking about. Sh*tty de-ageing takes you out of the story. Also, you can't de-age hips. Use a stunt double and ctrl-Alt-Shift-face that sucker
@@masterwerneck The hips were de-aged?!? Well they did an even more terrible job of that than the facial de-ageing. Check out the video of the guy who used a free deep fake software replaced a young DeNiro's face to the Irishman scenes. That was WAYYY more convincing than whatever ILM did.
Agree 100000 percent , it’s very true, the movements , the attitude, the energy is not there for someone in their late 70s and 80s ,. I thought it did kill the movie a bit, you can tell they are older men no matter how much computer assist they did
The seen where Frank met Russel he would of been in his late 20s in real life yet he looked about 50. Aside from this though I thought the movie was absolutely excellent
I honestly can't even believe that take of the deli scene with De Niro was used. That would have to mean that Scorses looked at the other takes of the same scene and decided they were even WORSE. 🤨
BUT WAIT. 1. Martin Scorsese though it would ruin the performance if actors were wearing dots. 2. They tracked the faces using a multiple camera setup with 2 infra red cameras. And the faces for Deniro Pachino and Pechi were REDONE IN CG.
Why didn’t they just use younger actors for earlier scenes? Like how they found the young boys to play Henry hill and Tommy in goodfellas? That was totally believable
Because as directors get really old, their body doesn't work the same. They can't endure dozens and dozens of auditions the way younger directors can. So they need to turn to technology for the solutions.
I agree although I guess for the young Henry Hill he was supposed to be early teens so puberty could explain looking different whilst the youngest we see Frank is early 20’s in the army scene. I think they should have definitely used body doubles for the early scenes because even when we see Frank in the 1950’s when he’s supposed to be aged early 30’s as a teamster he looks at least 45
Completely agree. I thought the film was amazing but like you said I didn’t really connect with Al Pacino’s character. I also thought it was difficult to work out how old Pesci and De Niro was in their flashback scenes because of the way they moved and talked. I think they should’ve study movement a little more personally 🤷♂️
Brum Man or....get an actor or a really good impressionist to do a younger version (higher voice, taller stature, whatever) and replace their head with the cgi young version and then boom. If Looper has this tech, that’s what they should’ve done.
When they move you totally notice that they are old actors.
The facials estructure is the same of nowadays too, except for having less wrinkles.
They have shrunken after 70 years of gravity. Their necks have all but disappeared.
THE EYES. In The Irishmen they were my biggest issue aside what you mentioned. A 35-40 year old man with clouded eyes is very strange. It totally broke the illusion for me. I think that they found that messing with the eyes in CGI, this is, deaging eyes or it still not possible or it would take the actor´s performance totally to the uncanny valley.
Great point, I thought the same.
True, the eyelids also looked too "saggy", they didn't have that youthful open look young people have.
A guy made a deep fake of DeNiro in the irishman.
Looks 20 years younger and smoother than the one in the movie
Yeah..why was this not mentioned in the video? Why are deepfakes not mentioned at all?
Yeah but he just fixed the cgi using a already de-aged video, he didn't de-aging DE niro from 80 to 50, he just fixed a long process that he had avoid, I mean, i saw that video and definitely looks better than the movie but don't forget the long process of the cgi crew in this movie, isn't so cool but still fantastic
I just saw that and found it was a little overdone in some scenes. What I have to say though that bothered me about the original de-aging was that they seem to have forgotten about the eyes! What this reworking does right mostly in my opinion is the eyes. The lustre is back in the eyeballs of a 30/40 something year old. I think finding a middle ground between the two would yield the best results. As for facial build that would still be something that needs tweakin. Finally pasting the facial performance on a body double would probably sell the illusion completely.
@@Kwantummeekanniks Mixing 2 things (like body double + head) is something they usually avoid (since they typically state that blending 2 things together is the most work)
@@Kwantummeekanniks what bothers me the most are the upperlips. Old people never have upperlips (this is a good example) because their upperjaws start to recess (maxilla)...so they need to give people upperlips !
Robert De Niro’s face structure was intentionally left without slimming as his character Frank Sheeran had a wide structure not a slimmer structure like De Niro in taxi driver
Was going to comment this. Also, the de-aging in The Irishman is not "just a filter". It is a fully CG face retargeted onto mocap data. The only different between this and Gemini man is that Will Smith performed all the young scenes on a mocap stage afterwords, whereas the Irishman is all captured in-camera on set.
This is the salient point everyone is stampeding over.
Yeah I doubt the real Franck Sheeran looked 50 in his late 20s
Still looks old af, guy came out with a Netflix vs free program video where he deepfakes young De Niro and it looks way better
The issue is that Frank Sheeran's face shape stays the same the whole film. No one's face shape does that. Go look at pictures of a young and an old Frank Sheeran. There's one of him with his first wife when he's fairly young that you can find on Google. His face shape changed heaps.
Yeah, de-aging DEFINITELY isn’t there yet. One of my few gripes with The Irishman; it constantly took me out of the movie, especially since you could clearly see these younger dude’s heads on older bodies. I’m not gonna say it was better in Captain Marvel, but it took me out of that movie less with Sam Jackson.
Sam Jackson was deaged almost flawlessly tbh, there was not a moment i thought about him being deaged....same with michael douglas in first antman tho
They didn't have much work to do with Samuel Jackson, for a guy in his 70s he got around great and was pretty badass in the latest Shaft movie.....No comparison to De Niro stumbling around like Henry Fonda in "On Golden Pond" when he's supposed to be a hitman in his 30s and 40s.
I think Terminator Dark Fate did an amazing job for one of the earlier scenes in the film. Different Actor with head replacement. Of course the scene was short and Arnold didn't talk or anything but Linda Hamilton did and it was amazing and it surely felt like a 4k restoration of a deleted scene from T2! I might be wrong, but it was impressive!
@@arkaprabhadeb2432 Yeah, I agree. The deage was well-done in T:DF.
For me, it was the other way around... I loved the movie so much that I forgot they were de-aged by the time I finished watching it... The movie consumed me and left me with some deep thoughts that overcame any technological errors it was suffering from...
Dude, you're wrong about how the effects in Irishman were constructed. It wasn't a filter on top of footage; they *did* overlay the original faces with CGI. Check out the Netflix documentary.
looks horrible anyway, so it doesnt really metter. they did it more advanced but the final product still looks like trash deaging filter lol, thats saying something
@@x340x I don't think it looks horrible at all. The faces themselves are fantastic.
Tacitus please the name of the Netflix documentary???
@@divachachi5308 here you are: ruclips.net/video/OF-lElIlZM0/видео.html
@@tacitus3591 Yeah, the faces look like HD faces, but they look too old and they look weird compared to how they looked young in real life. Robert de Niro never looked like he looks in The Irishman. Same with the other actors.
"this guy from the Notebook" is James Garner btw
Scorsese and De Niro were adamant about not using headgear like Gemini Man/Planet of the Apes trilogy as they believed it would stand in the way of the performances. They developed this new technique with ILM for this reason. Probably should have mentioned this in the video.
I think we are just a few years from finding the perfect techniques to de-age characters; like the digital revolution of the 90s/2000s we will likely see more examples like this in which filmmakers rely too heavily on a single technique (CGI on top of everything), but overtime filmmakers will learn more of the weaknesses and strengths of digital de-aging and gradually incorporate other more methods such as body doubles for more physical scenes, make-up or even digitally altering a younger actor more to the likeness of an older actor.
EXCITING TIMES WE LIVE IN!!
I was engaged with the Teamster's Union plot.
Despite that, I fully agree with your views.
2:28 this scene was so painful to watch. I have no idea why they kept this disaster in the movie.
From what I've read, the process for The Irishman was similar to that used in Gemini Man. Every shot of an actor's face was shot with 3 Red cameras to make sure they had a multidimensional view of the dots on their faces so they could construct a computer-generated version of the actors' performances.
Doesn't do anything about the body language, though.
i read that scorsese didnt want it to be shot like gemini man because he thought having giant weird looking hats on the actors heads would be distracting. He didnt want them to have dots on either
Yeah, it’s realllllly iffy in this movie, especially having seen it in theaters. The butcher scene is literally impossible, like how tf did they let that in the movie??
He doesn't look like younger De Niro, but a younger version of the character. Points for effort though, certainly.
bad move, should have made a younger De Niro. People want to see De Niro, not a fake CGI character
If you have the technology and want to make the character appear like the original real-life character, just overlay DeNiro completely, don't make a fat old DeNiro. They primarily tried to portray that the character is YOUNG and it failed.
I aged watching the movie
Different actor with full CG face replacement is the way to go in my opinion. Unless the age difference is small enough for the physicality of the actor to go unnoticed
that would be too tedious.
@@Raut-warrior I think it worked out really well in Logan.
At least for the wide shots that show a lot of movement from the older actor, have a younger double with face replacement.
@@balloonfiesta15 ya I know... I worked in VFX studio for 6 months like a slave and then quit
They did this well for young Johnny Depp in the latest Pirates movie......I also wonder if some kind of enhancement without replacing the actor can be done for the body like they do with the face. They didn't do anything like that of course. They could have at least asked De Niro to exert a little more effort briefly in certain scenes to try not to move as old. He certainly doesn't seem like he'd be willing to go to the gym a bit to get more spry for a role.
2:33
That is officially the worst scene in the entire movie. I fast-forward every time because it baffles me why this was left in the film. I kept forgetting exactly how old Frank was supposed to be in this film because when it came to movement, De Niro is just too old. Moments like these, though few and far between, took me completely out of the movie and it really surprises me that Scorsese left it in here. Yes, the wide shot would have been an impressive shot, but it shows everything and that is the issue. This would have been a good time to cut in closer to show more intensity, or POV shots so that way it could disguise what it really looked like (which was goofy). While I admire Scorsese's ambition with the CG tech, I don't think it really worked as well as he would have hoped. In these instances, casting another acting may have worked better, or hell, put a double in there and CG De Niro's face onto him (it worked pretty well in Captain America). That would sell this scene much better.
I looked past it, his character went through a whole ass war
@@danielpopescu7404 for the rest of the film, I never noticed it nor got distracted by it again because I was too into the story. But that one scene stood out like a sore thumb.
There's this thing that old people get when they get older. Moist mouth corners. Saliva pools in the mouth corners because the mouth droops when you get older. This was always visible with Pacino in The Irishman. I could never unsee it.
One bad scene in a master piece
That makes it not a masterpiece.
octagonproplex that doesn’t make sense
@@hjj9269
Masterpiece presumes a level of perfection.
There's a lot wrong with that movie
@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat Not really. You can call a film a masterpiece but still think it has flaws.
I really like the movie. Yes, I did notice the old man movements, I looked past it. I just love mafia movies...especially biographical ones. Not sure how accurate it is, but they’re portraying real mobsters
I think it was a pretty conscious artistic choice. Having virtually younger characters that move like older people (beacause the actors are) actually says a lot about the film itself. Old age is almost like a ghost that passes through those characters' lives. It carries a weight on the acting that spoke a lot to me.
As a 22 year-old with a brittle bone disorder; I bet so many people think I'm a de-aged 70 year-old when they see me walking around.
I'm still wondering when we are going to start hearing about if the movie was good or not ...
It is good! I'd just watch it, if you haven't already. Filter out the noise, and check out the work as a whole. If you hate it afterwards, at least you tried.
I’ve watched it multiple times now and I think it’s fantastic, it’s a great close to the genre regardless of age and technology
It’s a great movie. Watch it. I know it’s hard after watching this video, but look past it. Some people were complaining about it being boring, but it’s biographical, an action film.
@BackdriftNightfall well you are wrong.
I agree somewhat with the movement argument, however, it's hard to support it here given that we hardly really see De Niro's character as a young man. He's middle-aged or later for the vast majority of the film. Secondarily, this video misses the same point that others have when they talk about face slimming, etc. That would be a valid argument if they were trying to make him look like a younger De Niro, but they aren't. They're trying to make him look like a younger version of the CHARACTER, Frank Sheeran. And that's actually part of the problem because we all know what the younger versions of these actors look like so it feels off to us when that isn't how a de-aged version of the character appears. It isn't the uncanny valley, it's.....something new.
Also, while I appreciate the alternate method that Gemini Man took as far as a CGI body that can more accurately match Will Smith's build from his youth, the movement is actually worse in my opinion because they took motion capture from Will Smith and then tried to artificially re-animate it and speed ramp parts of it to separate it from how he moves now. The resulting effect is VERY jarring and took me out of the film far more than anything that happened in The Irishman.
Well it was a bad move in an otherwise great movie. I can't tell you how many times De Niro's CGI face and fake blue eyes took me out of the story. Throw in his 70+ year old body movements and hunch, and it really did spoil being able to fully enjoy the movie. Scorsese as always is a narrative genius, but this face tech has a ways to go...
TheOneTrueJack In the beginning of the film, Frank is 38. That’s pretty young and he looks 50 because of the de-aging not doing its best
That's just completely pointless to me. If you have the technology and want to make the character appear like the original real-life character, just overlay DeNiro completely, don't make a fat old DeNiro. They primarily tried to portray that the character is YOUNG and it failed.
Yeah, I think a better route to go would be like in David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
They tried and they failed simple as that. Sad and disappointing as the old actors are simply ignoring they produced a piece of shit at their dying age
wow a well researched video. you just said everything that was in my mind
2:38
in this scene should have involved a young double
@Adaneth
What were they all thinking,
it can be considered a mistake of the entire production group
I feel like Scorsese just focuses on the actors. The characters they play and their performance. I feel like he doesn't really notice the finer details we younger viewers care. In the end he cares how the actors interact and how it can impact the story. To me if they modify the production to fit the modern way with motion capture or tracking markers, he wouldn't want it. In the production itself they didn't want to use any tracking markers for the deaging process, it was groundbreaking. So if they replaced everything I feel like Scorsese would think it's disingenuous
Interesting video. Finished Irishman today, the de-aging didnt bug me at all.
I've only seen the first half of The Irishman, but I see where you're coming from about it. You're spot on about De Niro's movements and physicality.
The film where I first noticed this sort of issue was actually Red Dragon, where the 65 year old Hopkins is playing a younger version of the role he played at 54 in Silence of the Lambs. Now that 10 years isn't a lot, and he's still in good shape physically, and he's "acting" the role quite young in terms of movement and energy, but he physically looks shorter and more stocky. Partly because they don't shoot him in the same way, but also because he's legitimately a good 10 years older, and those are... BIG years age wise.
I think you're right as to the CGI route, or the CGI face on another actor, a'la what they did with Christopher Lee in the Star Wars and Hobbit films when they needed Saruman and Dooku to participate in fight scenes that the nonagenarian Lee could no longer perform.
You literally addressed every problem I have with The Irishman. Thank you
i never bought that they were under the age of 55
But the point is, that the faces and hands of the deaged actors ARE completely digital. You may take a look at the making of the deagingfx on netflix‘ channel...
But they didn't use tracking dots like Will Smith's cause Scorsese didn't want them. Instead, they had to use two reference cameras and try to match the motion. The result looks off.
No, it isn't. Was used one filter on existing images and not a full CGI imagens like on Will Smiths last film.
I am glad you brought up Gemini Man, as that was what I thought of immediately when you brought up the issues with de-aging when compared to overlaying a face on another. Samuel L Jackson's performance in Captain Marvel was great, but the moment he had to move I had the same issue with it, it can pull you out of a movie. The method used in Gemini Man also served the movie well, as Young Will Smith moves like a young man would, while Old Will Smith moves like you would expect a man his age to move.
I think the de-aging process of De Niro was the most painfull to watch, specificaly all the scene wher his character is under 50 years old. Pacino and Pecci where fine, but these ones were lacking. Watching the "Deepfaking" videos lately I spoted the details that where bothering. His lips and eyelid changed drasticaly.
I would also suggest that if they used younger body double for some of the more physical scenes shot in wide angle, helped with a cgi face, It would have helped.
Outside of that I love The Irishman, I felt it was a look back at all the Scorsese gangster films.
Agreed. I feel like the perfect example of how to do de-aging right is in GOTG 2; the flashback scene was shot twice, one with Kurt Russell wearing a motion capture headset, and another with a body double. The production team used the 2nd footage with the body double and digitally pasted Russell’s face over the body double.
1:45 - "this guy" ??? James Garner... this guy? If he only did just Maverick and not another movie still has a name.
I think the solution to your first issue would be using a different, younger actor for the physicality and full body shots with a CG face superimposed onto them. I know people had issues with the way it looked, but Luke in The Mandalorian is an example of this. You can theoretically have any actor at any age using this method (if the CG work is done well of course). I guess this opens up a moral dilemma of sorts, in figuring out who exactly should be credited as what. The guy who lends his face and voice is the lead? The guy who's actually doing the movement and motion and whose body is actually on the screen, is he the lead too? Is that person simply a glorified body double?
Tangent: Also is it ethical to cast a dead person in a starring role when he can't even consent to it, even if his estate cashes the check? We've seen cameos like this with Tarkin and Leia, but it is almost possible to bring back Brando, James Dean, Heath Ledger, John Candy, John Belushi, 2Pac, Bea Arthur, or anyone, and have them play the lead role for an entire movie. Voice-alikes and digital effects could handle their dialog, body doubles with a CG face could handle the visuals. I dunno, but I think it's a question that will arise within the next 10-20 years as studios start to realize what the possibilities are and as CG continues to improve. Maybe they already know? Maybe guys like Tom Hanks, Johnny Depp, Morgan Freeman and Tom Cruise are busy recording as many voice samples and motion capture samples as they can so that they can live on and star in an infinite amount of films after they pass away? Make sure their descendants are taken care of for all time.
I watched the movie right after reading the book. What I couldn't buy was DeNiro as a 6'4" Irishman. Sheeran's physicality, his size, was a big part of his story. First shot in the movie of old Frank, I said, that's my father (Salvatore, 1000% Italian).
didnt bother me too much in irishman, because deniro been a stiff guy for years now and he looks like 50+ in the movie anyway.
There's a video on RUclips that shows how free software would've worked significantly better than the de-aging technology Netflix spent millions on lol
it’s definitely different from the age discrepancies in goodfellas. when i first watched goodfellas, i was a little bothered by the glaring age differences. (esp henry and jimmy.) but now goodfellas is one of my favorite movies and i kind of just ignore the aging issue. even though the actors were much older than the parts they played, they still moved like younger men would. but i have honestly put off watching the irishman because i thought the de-aging tech would pull me out of it. i remember reading reviews for the irishman and one said “goodfellas is about criminals who live and die fast. the irishman is a film where the criminals live and die slow.”
i just saw killers of the flower moon and loved it, so it might be time to give the irishman another go.
I hadn't even heard about the controversy over this film's bad de-aging effects when I watched it for the first time awhile back, and it still immediately jumped out at me as soon as I started watching. The part where Pesci's character calls DeNiro's character "kid" was insane, especially considering the fact that DeNiro was shambling around like an old man in every scene. Hilarious. Good movie though...
I think it's just an Italian American thing to call someone your junior a kid, even if they're old. Frank Sheeran wasn't supposed to be 20 years in that scene anyways, more just middle aged, he was also a war veteran too.
I’m 26, and I notice a difference between how I move now vs when I was 15-18. So I can only imagine how different the movement of a 40 year old vs an 80 year old will be…
The scene at the grocery store where his shoulders look frozen while he stomps the guy takes you out of it a bit but still an amazing movie!
i also found deniros young face to be weirdly inexpressive.
Rob is not 80 though 😂
Well, it's about the story, not the looks. And than, it's a very good movie.
A prime example of the "aged movement" is Hero Boy in Polar Express. He was played by, and modeled to resemble Tom Hanks, but the adult performance capture retargeted to a child's proportions means the character looks too mature at times. Very jarring once you notice it. I'm a 3D animator myself and am currently busy working on realistic human faces.
To solve the body movement issues i would have simply projected the actors de-aged face onto a stop motion animated body to make the scenes look more realistic.
Love The Irishman. The de-agimg is a little distracting at first, and yes you can tell that their motions are a bit more stiff than if we were looking at Senior from Taxi Driver -- but that is a different character. I simply chalked it all up to character. This man, Frank Sheeran, has lived a life and a half even at his young age. It also simply feels like an artistic touch that I cannot fault the movie or the director for. I enjoyed it thoroughly and multiple times.
IMO it was not the "De-aging" but the actual "Aging" that works. Of course there is no way they are gonna convince you that they can make Robert De Niro look like he was in his late 30s. They can convince you however the characters (Not the actors) have aged 4-5 decades within the story of the movie. Not just physically of course.
Remember when Joe Pesci played Tommy in Goodfellas? The real Tommy was 28 years old at the time he got murdered, sure shit, if you nitpicked that movie today, there is no way they are gonna convince you that Joe was in his late 20s. He was 47 at the time if I am not mistaken. Remember in the movie, Tommy was supposed to be around the same age as Henry. However, because the character was just so engaging to watch, you will stop caring what age he is supposed to be in the movie.
Besides I honestly could not see how else this movie could have been if the actors were different
I agree with you, the best part of the movie is basically after you see Frank Sheeran's ceremony, and it's because they act naturally due to the nature of the characters, which at that point of the movie, are old characters, that is basically when De Niro shines. This was a risky project, specially because to cast different actors to act the younger versions of De Niro or Pacino would've been very hard to do. I enjoy the last one hour and a half of the Irishman, I think the narrative is great and I think Joe Pesci was brilliant in general, but the de-aging was not the peak of the movie and it can be distractive.
I agree. Tot I was the only one. The cloudy eyes also gave it away.
The reason why they didn't do the face tracking CG thing that they did in Gemini Man, with the face rig set up, was because Scorsese and the actors didn't want to do a scene with all this gear attached to them. It would take them out of the acting part of it and would weaken the performances. That's what Scorsese said. The nuances of the performances would be lost by the ridiculousness of what they were wearing, there would be a disconnect.
I understand why Scorsese was hesitant, but the truth is, this de-aging tech just wouldn't quite work the same as he would have hoped. And it is a little ironic how Scorsese is obsessed with the nuances yet the nuances of how you act when you're younger vs. older seem to have passed him by.
But I do love this movie, faults and all. I have rewatched it like 3 times now and there are some fantastic scenes here, mainly towards the end between Pesci, De Niro, and Pacino.
@@One.Zero.One101 exactly! These men are just, unfortunately, too old. You can tell in their performances that they're not as young as they're supposed to be in the scene (grocery store kick scene).
I scrolled quite a lot and couldn't find a single comment about their voices too. It's probably the easiest part to tweak in post-production, it definitely affects how we perceive a character on screen, and still no one seems to complain or talk about.
As we get older, our vocal cords change. The voice gets lower and develops a raspiness of sorts.
We often do the opposite when we age someone, even with make-up. Actors are guided to perform with a lower register and drier throat (e.g. Chris Evans as old Captain America). Old actors can't really pull off the opposite, so directors should find ways in editing.
Valid points. Bet not that many people thought about this.
My big beef with the Irishman is that is was too damn long - unnecessarily. I didn't notice the movements of the aged actors until you pointed it out... which makes me like this film less :( All things considered, I thought the story was good enough for me to hang in until the end and learn things I never knew, like the influence of the Teamsters and it's influence in politics.
You highlighted about two different scenes where it's arguably more noticable but then added in others when Sheeran is supposed to be in his 50s, when he's walking over WET rocks and throwing the gun in the water or hugging Tony Pro. What's wrong with those scenes and the movement. That was nitpicking.
As much as I love Scorsese’s movies and partly because I didn’t know the story, I had trouble trying to make sense of the age the characters were supposed to be. Hiring younger actors would’ve been the best way to go but surely a pretty complicated job for the casting director. Yet, I get if Scorsese wanted to play an homage to the actors and let them all shine together.
The thing that works with _The Irishman_ is the suspension of disbelief.
Issue was that the actors weren’t on board for the digital process where they had yo wear tracking equipment. However I completely agree that it didn’t look that convincing, due to De Niro’s aged physicality.
That scene where De Niro bests up the clerk will go down as one of the most unintentionally laughable scenes in movie history. It's so bad.
They should’ve used stunt doubles for some parts especially that grocery store scene
They did not just apply a filter, or smooth over the wrinkles. They did use markers in a sense- they used infrared cameras alongside the regular camera to track the facial movements of the actors, then used digital replacement technics. Same process, newer technology. And, they could have gotten around the 'old bodies' thing by using body doubles for more action-y scenes and digital head replacement like in Benjamin Button, Blade Runner 2049 or that Captain America movie. The 'young guys moving like old guys' is what takes me out of the movie.
I was thinking about this process when I heard Paramount considered getting William Shatner back to play Kirk. My feeling is Jim Kirk would never allow himself to become old Shatner. But digitally map Shatner's face, give him a cgi diet, and project his performance on the head of an old but in shape actor.
I was ready to shit on your video but you made excellent points.
Scorsese himself was aware of the posture problems in the film. He talks a little about it in the Netflix "in conversation".
I think at the end of the day it ended up being a directorial choice. Any other director would have cast younger actors, and only kept the cast for their aged scenes. But Scorsese treats his films like theater in the sense of "performance". His actors are performers, and their performance is an integral part of the movie. He can't have anyone else act in his films, it just wouldn't be the same. The same reason he refused that the actors would wear any motion capture gear. "The actors need to play off each other".
Scorsese chronicles the aging of the characters in the film, but also of himself and the cast. His interview with the New York Times is the perfect reference for that. I think that's one of the reasons for the casting/CGI choice in this film.
Personally, I think this is one of Scorsese's best pictures. It's a slow burner, that's for sure, so I can understand how some people didn't enjoy it
Excellent video on your part.
Yeah, I never had a problem with de-aging visual effects. But bad de-aging is what I don't like, and Gemini Man and The Irishman are examples of that. But good de-aging would be like in David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
I do notice that they veryyy slightly decreased the size of the nose and ears, one MAJOR issue they looked over was the lips, they forgot that lips are fuller when young, Denison had thin lips the whole film
Great videos glad you said the things i was thinking.
you are 100% right. they move like old men, which they are ! compare De Niro & Pacino with their younger selves in Heat
2:38 "spastic" di nero... 😁
Irishman actually did replace the entire face. It’s essentially a CGI film.
My big problem is that it usually looks like a 3D prop head composited to cardboard 2D body.
Not to mention their hands. But the funniest, and most pathetic scene in the irishman though is when robert deniro was trying a bouncy walk to look younger.
Imagine calling pathetic a scene of such an amazing movie, you guys just want fucking miracles. If they're would've used full cgi you would've still complain about it
They should have used a body double and mixed his performance with De Niro's performance, then put his face on the body double's face and de-age it. Also, as for the de-age effect they should have decreased the ears, nose and mouth size.
i could not finish this movie for all those reasons.
In my opinion, I thought that the vfx were fine. They weren’t as outstanding as Samuel Jackson in Captain Marvel, or Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator Genisys, but they’re not bad like young Will Smith in the last scene of Gemini Man. However, if there’s anything we learned from Captain Marvel, while you can make an actor look younger, you can’t make him move younger.
Would love an update to this video with Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny de-aging. I hated that they used his old man voice with a younger actor who did not move like young Indy. Though the CGI was still pretty good. Better than Tarkin...
I think de-aging looks good enough for face shots it really does not matter but they really sure use body doubles for the full body shots to make sure they move like the right age
The Gemini Man technology is the way to go.
I have that problem with these 80s actors that are trying to make a come back making action movies,it doesn't feel right i rather go with the nostalgia and rewatch them with the old movies.time catches up
I thought i was the only one who saw this
I'm a huge fan of Scorsese and his style of filmmaking
It always had something pure, clean but raw to me with the lack of cgi and the importance of a good story.
Seeing a old man desperatly trying to look young made me kinda sad.
The absence of wrinkles doesn't make you look young and it doesn't help to oversaturate the eyes in a blue that is so obviously fake, it hurts the part of me that wanted to love this movie.
It was the movie I couldn't wait to see and I turned it off.
I didn’t mind the CGI. It’s more everything else about the actor, although it still wasn’t much of a problem for me. It doesn’t look like a 30-40 year old DeNiro, but it’s not DeNiro. It’s Frank Sheeran. I don’t know Frank’s mannerism, or what he looked like when he was younger, so anything that feels off I can just chalk up to Frank’s character. He fights like an 80 year old man? That’s because he’s inexperienced. He’s not Rambo. He’s an honest who just started getting in business with the Mafia. He probably hadn’t fought anyone in over 10 years let alone much at all at this point.
Bravo, great revue, you said what others were afraid to mention,why the couldn't hire younger actors? My version - Scorcese wanted to get top buck for his friends and for himself
Totly agree with this video, that is the first thing I noticed when I watched
Yeah, I think if creators want "de-age" an actor, they should take notes from David Fincher's The Curious Case Of Benjaman Button. The character Benjaman Button required not only Brad Pitt, but 6 different actors to play him. The director used a camera system called Contour, to capture facial deformation data from live-action performances.
For me when I watched the film as a whole the examples of the de aging not working didn’t really bother me that much. I guess the performance of the actors were too good for me to really not care a lot about the times where they should’ve used a stand in (like the grocery scene). That and while it looked off at first I got used to the younger looking actors.
The Irishman's is not de-ageing, it's de-wrinkling.
Great video, you brought up everything I was thinking about.
Sh*tty de-ageing takes you out of the story.
Also, you can't de-age hips.
Use a stunt double and ctrl-Alt-Shift-face that sucker
The hips in fact were deaged, there's photos on Google showing that but the actors facials structures remained the same along the movie.
@@masterwerneck The hips were de-aged?!? Well they did an even more terrible job of that than the facial de-ageing. Check out the video of the guy who used a free deep fake software replaced a young DeNiro's face to the Irishman scenes. That was WAYYY more convincing than whatever ILM did.
Agree 100000 percent , it’s very true, the movements , the attitude, the energy is not there for someone in their late 70s and 80s ,. I thought it did kill the movie a bit, you can tell they are older men no matter how much computer assist they did
Another solution: make the film animated (2D or 3D, it doesn't matter) or turn it into a comic book/graphic novel or video game.
Basically I learnt that my face will change as I age.
Totally agreed. It's still worth seeing but it's not great
The seen where Frank met Russel he would of been in his late 20s in real life yet he looked about 50. Aside from this though I thought the movie was absolutely excellent
I thought jackson in captain marvel was some of the best de aging I’ve seen same with Downey jrs
But still noticeable
I honestly can't even believe that take of the deli scene with De Niro was used. That would have to mean that Scorses looked at the other takes of the same scene and decided they were even WORSE. 🤨
I was skeptical with your title but when you showed 2:33 it was dead-obvious.
Really good 👍🏻 Thanks for sharing 🙏🏻 I agree 😉
BUT WAIT.
1. Martin Scorsese though it would ruin the performance if actors were wearing dots.
2. They tracked the faces using a multiple camera setup with 2 infra red cameras. And the faces for Deniro Pachino and Pechi were REDONE IN CG.
Spot on , well done. Al pacino was the best in the movie because he's aged the best
Why didn’t they just use younger actors for earlier scenes? Like how they found the young boys to play Henry hill and Tommy in goodfellas? That was totally believable
Because as directors get really old, their body doesn't work the same. They can't endure dozens and dozens of auditions the way younger directors can. So they need to turn to technology for the solutions.
Ural Damasis that’s a good point
I agree although I guess for the young Henry Hill he was supposed to be early teens so puberty could explain looking different whilst the youngest we see Frank is early 20’s in the army scene. I think they should have definitely used body doubles for the early scenes because even when we see Frank in the 1950’s when he’s supposed to be aged early 30’s as a teamster he looks at least 45
Because half of the publicity of this movie revolves around the de-aged actors and their technology.
Paulo Avelar that’s a shame...it distracts from being involved with the story
Completely agree. I thought the film was amazing but like you said I didn’t really connect with Al Pacino’s character.
I also thought it was difficult to work out how old Pesci and De Niro was in their flashback scenes because of the way they moved and talked. I think they should’ve study movement a little more personally 🤷♂️
Brum Man or....get an actor or a really good impressionist to do a younger version (higher voice, taller stature, whatever) and replace their head with the cgi young version and then boom. If Looper has this tech, that’s what they should’ve done.
RR3ason Music Yhhh that’s a good idea as well
Yeah, it'll be stunt men or "motion actors" with digital deep-fake faces.