I read the book a couple times (I Heard You Paint Houses) a few years ago, and my recollection was that they make it pretty clear that “Frank Sheeran Appreciation Night” is more or less the decisive night when things reached a head. It’s a bit different in the book though, as there are two Frank Sheeran Appreciation Nights - a public one (which is what we see in the film) but in the book there is also a “private” party on a different night, where everyone invited was connected. I believe it was on that night (which Hoffa was not present for) that the machinations are put into motion.
I believe there was a general agreement that Jimmy had to either retire or die from the moment Tony Salerno said, "We can't have that!" That Russell sincerely tried to make the retirement happen and gave up only when he had that last talk with Jimmy. When Tony Pro saw Jimmy dancing with Peggy, I think he ran back to try to persuade the others that Frank should be killed, too. Russell saved Frank, and maybe Peggy, by agreeing to have Frank do the hit, just as he'd saved him once before when Frank blew up the laundry. It should also be considered that the movie greatly downplays Tony Jack's role in all this. In real life, he was much more than Tony Pro's cousin. He was the Detroit mob boss, and the hit happened on his turf. This is why I think that ultimately it was Tony Jack who ordered the hit after getting all the other bosses to sign on, including Chicago, Florida, New York, everybody. And I think the people who carried it out were all Tony Jack's men, that ultimately all the false rumors of where Hoffa was buried had been generated as decoys by Tony Jack himself. It was said of Tony Jack that he was smart enough to have run a Fortune 500 company. Late in life, Frank falsely claimed to have done it because it would sell more books and provide income for his daughters. Still, I love this movie because it got the "whats" and "hows" right, and only fudged on the "whos."
Billy Jack...Tony Jack's brother was on the scene when Jimmy was killed. It happened at Licata's house on Long Lake....Tony was present the whole day at the Southfield Athletic Club. It happened on their turf and Tony Pro's guy Briggulio was on the scene repping Tony Pro. Took his body down in Hamtramack to the junk recycling center the Partnership's owned and got rid of the body.
@@doriandenard5846How do you know this, is there any reliable source? I'm honestly asking. I do agree Tony Jack's role in the movie was downplayed. Patrick Gallo is an excellent actor, but maybe should have been casted in another role
@@theportugueselegend I have sources locally that knew EXACTLY what happened and we wouldn't be friends anymore if I divulged it. Just know that the scenario presented is pretty much how it happened. The collaboration of certain individuals made him disappear. Licata's marriage into the Partnership's clan couldn't save him because 6 years to the day he killed himself in the very same house and the exact day Hoffa came up missing. He was bad mouthing his brother-in-law who happened to be the boss of the family. Word is, his wife was sleeping in the living room when he shot himself TWICE in the head. Partnership's specialty, other than keeping themselves out of sight, but making people either DISAPPEAR or make it look totally SUICIDAL. The actual shooter actually died in 2020. So do some research on the Detroit Partnership past and present and you'll find your answer.
I think the argument wasn't whether they kill Jimmy. It was whether they kill Frank. Since Frank was so close to Jimmy the top guys were unsure where his loyalties were. Why else have Frank kill Jimmy himself but to make him prove his loyalty? There were a bunch of guys there already, and any of them could have pulled the trigger. Frank had to show who he was with. Fat Tony wasn't going to leave something like that to chance-he either had to know, or he was going to get rid of Frank as well to tie up the loose ends. Frank didn't know what a good friend he had in Russell.
@egyptian316 Actually, IF you believe the book, which I read LONG before the movie was even filmed, it sounds like he actually DID have an idea because he (Sheeran) so much as says that not only had Bufalino interceded (and NOT because Bufalino was obligated to either) on his behalf MANY times prior (in unrelated incidences) to Hoffa's "disappearance" (that's right, ever since reading Arthur Sloane's "Hoffa", I'm CONVINCED Hoffa got himself killed, even though we don't know WHO really did the deed and, again, that was BEFORE this movie), his loyalties were to Bufalino first, due to their history, and, because of that (and the Commission's apparent respect for Bufalino himself), he was spared being killed himself by being put in on the hit. Sheeran went on to say that it was not only to make sure he couldn't get back at the Mafia (that is, by avenging Hoffa's murder), it was his chance to prove where his loyalties lay and that he could still be trusted! Being shaped by hard times (the Great Depression and World War II; the real-life Sheeran was the same age as my paternal grandfather, who'd died a few years before Hoffa) makes you appreciate it when people are looking out for you, however ironic it may sound in Sheeran's case! All this, of course, is if you're to believe the story (I mean Sheeran's), never mind the movie and all of it's dramatizations. As for Jimmy Hoffa, it's obvious he played with fire and got burned (by all accounts, he knew how dangerous the people he was dealing with were and, f.y.i., NO, I will NOT make wisecracks about what happened to him; I'm aware his children are still alive and that he's got grandchildren and great-grandchildren, apparently)!
@@SmartDave60 Didn’t the unions get fucked up bad after Hoffa’s death? So maybe he had a dead mans switch or something that released all that dirt after he died.
Please keep "The Irishman" videos coming. Here's my 2 cents . . . the decision to whack Hoffa was made at the appreciation night, with the three together at the table. The details of the how and where were finalized with the phone call.
Tony Salerno is an interesting figure in real life. He posed as the real boss of the Genovese family to direct attention from Vincent Gigante who pretended he was mentally ill. TS went to prison and died there, never having ratted. Interesting that this set up wasn’t mentioned in the film as TS took no decisions, VG did.
Because it's how that was in real life. Fat Tony appeared everywhere, and he did take some decisions by himself. But in big decisions (like the Genoveses supporting Jimmy getting wacked) the okay from Chin was needed
@@Based_StuhlingerYou should! There's things we don't see in the first watch that we got when we rewatch it. It's a pretty good movie. Not on Casino's level in my opinion, but pretty good!
@@DanJuega , neither was I. All of Scorsese's mob films involve fabricated mob stories and are presented as fact, yet the films worked out fantastically. The Irishman was just too far stretched and the decision to use de-aging CGI just blew it.
"far stretched" lmao how? Even if the de aging is flawed, suspend your disbelief ya cynic. If it wasn't the same actors all the way through then it wouldn't have the impact it does.
@@cynicaltheastrocreep4504 Suspension of disbelief can only take you so far before it breaks. You think the Godfather 2 would have more impact if they could've have a de-aged Marlon Brando instead of Robert DeNiro. Cause it's laughable to say it would.
@@DanJuega definitely. Hiring a different actor definitely creates some disconnect but often it's the only choice, or at least was back then. I would say most of it in the Irishman looks pretty good, when they're supposed to be really young it does look off but it's good for most of the film. I think you just have this pretentious "I'm better than that" attitude at his movies because they take some liberties to tell the most interesting story, not the exact truth.
I think that they gave the okay near the end - It was when Hoffa was originally going to skip the wedding that they were all going to gather at for a peace mission. Hoffa states that he wasn't planning on attending the wedding anymore and that he didn't want Pro at said meeting. This I think was the true final straw - and even him changing his mind and agreeing to sit down with Tony Jack and Pro, by that point it was too late.
I think when he gave him the ring he was saving him in a way. If he was with Hoffa he would be killed too. Having him kill Hoffa also proved it to the other Bosses. Plus best man for the job. Hoffa trusted him
I think as soon as Jimmy quit being a team player by putting his own interests above the Teamsters along with dragging his feet with the mob was the moment it was decided that he needed to step down. After that it was just a matter of how much Jimmy decided to resist his severance package. The exit plan for him went from simply letting him walk away quietly to "It's simpler to throw him in a dumpster".
@6610stix In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if his body was actually incinerated, considering it's not been found after all these years (and he's not been seen or heard from since July 30, 1975; it's my understanding even his own family suspected foul play from the beginning).
@@thomasshort1784 I'm confident he be found someday. Even if that someday is 10,000 years from now and he is found plastered flat as a frisbee between a stack of illegally dumped asbestos and truckload of bootleg 8-track disco tapes.
I really have to give the Irishman another watch. My first viewing of the film ... I did not enjoy it as much as Scorsese's previous films. (Taxi Driver & Raging Bull are among my favorite films of all time). I just thought the Irishman lingered ... And, as you know, the Godfathers I & II are my favorite American films of all time and I don't think the Irishman had enough story to comprise the entirety of its running time. I didn't think it was a bad movie, just not in the same conversation as the aforementioned greats. I'm glad you decided to take this in a different way than whether or not the film was good or bad, but focusing on this specific point does bring some intrigue to a film that, I felt, was largely devoid of it. I don't know if I was just in a mood at my time of watching it, but it just dragged forever and ever ... and 2001: A Space Odyssey is a film I can watch every week, so I'm not against slower paced films. I don't know, maybe I should give it another shot. (no pun intended!) Great content man, hope to speak with you again soon!
The fight in prison, the Florida sit down, and others gives me feeling the of a "failure to communicate." A failure to communicate and a failure to understand one another, which makes sense to me because none of these people can see past themselves. Except maybe Jimmy, which is why those around him can't understand him. When he said "you people," I don't think he meant it how it was taken. Derogatory for sure but more on the line of, "you mobsters." Same with his attachment to the Union, it wasn't just something there to be scammed. Considering the thought that he may have actually cared what happened to his people the whole thing becomes more tragic because it shifts what he's warring over. Tony was going on about what he's owed. Consider Frank's position and what Tony said, what is he owed? The legal isn't Frank's fault. Tony is a mobster so what does the Union owe him who's job is exploitation? There's also the continued reminder to people about their place in that life. The bosses didn't think of Jimmy as one of them so it's interesting and ironic they can't understand why he doesn't go along with things as someone who is "one of them" would. In their eyes he was another political figure in it only for reward, it's the only kind of people they know. Nobody ever really cares about whatever's being scammed. For all the masking, concealing, and understanding of intentions no one can ever grasp a person's motivations. FBI guys can't understand why who or what Frank is protecting. Frank's daughter's couldn't understand why he did what he did. Frank didn't understand how his idea of protecting and providing for his family was destroying it. The Mob didn't fully understand Jimmy and what the union meant to him. Jimmy misunderstood his importance, all the reasons he said they wouldn't dare are why they did. Then there's all the people in between communications and people who should, never speak directly. I think there is something to be said about who they're all surrounded by individually. Jimmy isn't constantly surrounded by people who only care about themselves, the union may not just be a faceless entity to be exploited. Feels like Jimmy is trying to balance a self-serving life so he can maintain a more self-less one.
This was a great film. It is a thinking person’s movie, subtle, intelligent, and menacing in a uneasily calm way. The violence is needed but is actually just done in a matter of fact way… just business. Violence occurs because it is needed to maintain control and power, not for the enjoyment of mayhem. Hoffa had to go because .. well he simply had to go.
In the film, the decision to kill Hoffa happened during Frank’s appreciation night. Hoffa maybe could have talked his way out of it but he refused. The slow maneuvering in the rest of the movie was an example of how the mob could control an associate like Frank, to get him to show his loyalty to the mob. Pesci does a great job as Russell Bufalino as the controller. As for the film, The Irishman completes a trilogy of Scorsese mob movies. It is the bridge between the world of Goodfellas to how the high roller world of Casino was built.
I actually loved the film yes I will admit it was dry in the beginning but once you get over the dry scenes towards the middle and climax of the film it starts to get interesting
I really didn't like this film. To me, it felt like it was bloated, a little meandering, and only became so popular because of nostalgia - putting all these old gangster actors on the screen together for "one last time" for the fans. That scene where DeNiro "beat up" the guy was just awful. It looked more like one of those dreams you have where you try to hit someone a bunch of times and they just shrug it off. I feel it could have benefited with being shorter and using newer actors.
This movie was never very popular outside of its initial run because it was highly anticipated and released essentially for free on a streaming service so everyone and their mother saw it. After a year following its release I can’t recall anyone ever talking about it outside of RUclips clips
One HUGEA thing you forgot is earlier in the film someone tries to make an attempt on hoffa life in the court room. I think the decision was made after one of the tony pro meetings
Wow, a lot of great story elements and intrigue were involved with The Irishman that I never knew existed. Never knew cause I could barely make it past one viewing in what looked like Scorsese's CGI gangster version of Cats.
You may or may not know this, but the "JAKE GOTTLIEB" character in THE IRISHMAN was based on real life Hoffa Attorney and close confidante - MORRIS SHENKER who obtained millions of dollars in loans from Hoffa's Teamsters Pension Fund to buy the DUNES HOTEL in Vegas. There were a few other Casinos in Vegas that also borrowed money from the Teamsters, so when Hoffa got out of prison and threatened to take back his position from Fitz...those mobsters who were skimming millions in untaxed dollars from the various countrooms in those Hotel/Casinos, knew their "Cash Cows" were in jeopardy, so that's when I believe they ALL realized Hoffa had to be killed?
The film had alot of holes in it factually frank Sheeran for a FACT...did not kill gallo or hoffa...that makes the movie kind of weak right off the bat
@@peteyprimo7173 Michael Franzese who was in the Colombo family at that time of Hoffa,he knows...he just won't say the name of the guy who told him for sure...you have to realize SOMEBODY knows or knew who killed him just because it's never been revealed doesn't mean somebody doesn't KNOW but it wasn't Sheeran...gallo was in the colombo family at the same time Mike father was,,,so they know these things
It was when buffliano agreed and stared at Jimmy that was it and then the dancing with the daughter who he tried to win over and he sees Jimmy dancing with her at that moment
Al Pacino didn’t sell it for me playing Hoffa. Amazing movie and an Amazing acting. Al Pacino is one of my favourite actors but dam it was a rare miss. Just my opinion
@@SmartDave60 I am into the history of the Hoffa/Mob/JFK/Hoover all that crap. In my opinion having watched The movies Blood Feud and Hoffa plus documentaries Al Pacino ( sorry I’m not on a firs t name basis like you are with him) doesn’t come close to the part. Al Pacino acted the same way as in Devils Advocate plus a few others. He doesn’t look like Hoffa and mannerisms are off. It seemed to be overacting for overacting sake and forced.
@@bp2352 I was born in ‘69 so I vaguely remember Hoffa when he was in the news after his disappearance. And I totally agree Al wasn’t a convincing Hoffa physically. But I loved his acting in it. I did find his rage and ego portraying Hoffa convincing.
@@SmartDave60 Oh cool. I was in born 74 you must remember T.V when they still smoked on air. I re read my comment and I sounded like an ass saying I wasn’t on a first name basis like you. This is RUclips. You really could be in which that would be Fu&k!ng awesome.
The Tony Salerno scenes are iffy. Buffalino wasn’t connected to NYC. He was connected to Philly and Buffalo. It’s not likely that he was having meetings with high level NYC mobsters.
The Philly family is basically the 6th NYC family. Philly mob leadership is decided and voted on by the NY crime families. If you're dealing with Angelo Bruno or Nicky Scarfo you're dealing with an extension of the Gambino family. But this movie isn't accurate.
It's hard to assume any facts or reach conclusions about the events leading to Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance based on The Irishman. Let's face it, most if not all the claims by Frank Sheeran in the movie were proved to be pure fiction including Sheearan's killing of Hoffa, Crazy Joe and his involvement in the preparation for the Bay of Pigs. Having said that, The Irishman is a movie worth watching over and over despite the debunked claims of Sheeran.
@fattony9227 While I agree with most of your points, I disagree with your point about the movie because Hollywood is NOTORIOUS for embellishing stories about real-life events and even people to the point that you can't discern what's true and what's a lie (examples: Ty Cobb, Jimmy Hoffa, even Johnny Cash, to name a few), which I why I don't like biopics (and why, if interested, I'll make it a point to research the real people or events)! If anything, I've learned 9 times out of 10, that the real person (and that includes Jimmy Hoffa) is usually more interesting, if not intriguing, anyway.
In the book I heard you paint houses the dislike for Jimmy from certain mobsters starts after his altercation in the can with Pro. Certain mobsters also didn't like how Jimmy was close to Carmine Galante in prison and also didn't like that Galante took up for Jimmy in that beef with Pro and they both died less than a decade later. My family are all labor union leaders in Philly on my moms side some characters portrayed mostly minor ones were close friends of my grandfather who was head of Philly Building Trades. It is beleived my grandfather attended the Frank Appreciation Night because it is the only time he met Hoffa and the age my mom was when he come home that night matches up timeline wise not to mention John McCullough put the dinner together a close friend of his but there's alot more I won't get into groundbreaking stuff but it's stuff I don't get into.
The de ageing in this film was obnoxious and unnecessary. Why would anyone think it's ok to try and make an 75 year old man look like someone in their 20s? I understand that it's difficult to match up a young actor with an older one, but at least it doesn't completely take you out of the scene.
Ideally they would've just found a great actor in his 40s a la de Niro in godfather but when the entire selling point of the movie is de Niro, pacino, and pesci, no one would have been happy with replacing half their screen time with some other less famous but younger actor.
Scorsese is an old man who’s already proven his film skills, now he’s just having fun making movies and experimenting with ideas. Certainly not something worth getting upset over.😂😂
Really, the only place where this movie is bs is when the goons were loading Browning M2 50 cal. machine guns into trucks like they were boxes of cotton candy. Everything else is 100% historical.
I wonder if the reason why frank felt so bad about for the rest of his long life was that he couldnt get jimmy to understand that the mafia WILL get him whacked if he doesnt back down. Even tho they had many talks about it but still. -They wouldnt dare -Dont say they wouldnt dare Jimmy, dont say they wouldnt dare..
Fat Tony (& Funzi Tieri) was *Genovese street boss,* but we don't know for certain if he was ever *official boss,* but I'd argue that a Genovese street boss was more powerful than 2 families' bosses, & later on down the line, when Vic Amuso, maybe the least-deserving boss ever, & his (under)boss🙄, Anthony 'gaspipe' Casso basically sold out & f@¢ked up their ENTIRE borgata, also stronger than the Lucchese boss, as well! The Chin was the real power for a long, long time! And being his handpicked street boss... ?? Had to be a powerful position... 110%.
Yes we do! Tony was named Boss from Lombardo. Unfortunately he had a stroke and they didn’t know how he would recover.. Meantime Chin filled the void. After about a year of convalescing he missed the action and returned on a part time basis and let Chin keep the Boss position and he took the Streeboss position bc everyone already thought he was Boss! He handled pretty much all day to day things and handled the Commission side of business.
You know this how? I've heard Sammy the Bull tell a version similar to this, only he seemed to state that Benny 'Squints' Lombardo got Chin to agree to acknowledge Tony as boss, but that eventually, Chin would take over, & that, yes, after Fat Tony's stroke, Chin sent word to him that he was taking over, but that Fat Tony would still get the boss title, & run the borgata, day-to-day... But that Gigante was now official boss. But in tapes made by Vinny 'Fish' Cafaro, it seems the evidence points to the contrary, I believe(?).
@@matthewrider5906 WoW! Sammy actually said something true???lol I stopped watching him after I realized all his channel was is a RE-telling of his book that came out almost 30yrs ago… I have a collection of over 100 books on the genre. And an extensive collection of FBI reports, 302’s, etc. It’s been covered actually in a few of the better non mainstream books but I do believe quite certainly it was discussed in “Five Families” by S. Raab even… But you are correct, it was giving to ‘Fat Tony’ out of seniority and respect but ‘Chin’ was the heir apparent who would eventually take over and did sooner than expected…Funzi was always ‘SteetBoss’ and in that administration there was no shades of grey. You are also on the money when you say ‘Fat Tony’ had more authority than other Borgatas #1’s… ‘Big Paul’ was prob the only one who could contest him outright, and even then as long as it didn’t interfere with Paul’s bottom line even he would defer to Salerno. ‘Tony Ducks’ and him came up together and were regular pals… and he never wanted to cross him. “Tell em go complain to ‘Fat Tony’” And all the other Bosses just simply were not on that level in NY. Not even close…
@@josephsierzengaIV Yeah, I agree abt Gravano 110%. He's simply a grifter. But he told the version I relayed to you before I stopped watching him. I'm a bit of an amateur Cosa Nostra buff, myself. But that's more to do w/my labor union official grandfather who had, *alleged,* hehe, but alleged St. Louis Giordano Crime Family 'friends,' from all the way back in the late '50s/earliest '60s, all the way through til the new president of Pipefitters Local #562, my grandfather's, uncles', & my father's union, President Ed Steska, who'd vowed to "clean up" the local, was murdered in his office @ the union hall complex, while he was on the phone with, according to many ppl, James 'Horseshoe Jimmy' Michaels Sr, also a high-ranking organized labor leader & the boss of The Syrian Mob in St. Louis... But one thing we know FOR CERTAIN?!?! NOBODY got killed from Pipefitters Local #562 w/out the greenlight from one Don Anthony 'Tony G' Giordano! He ran the St. Louis borgata from 1950, when he declared St. Louis's independence from the Civella Crime Family outta KC, til 1980, when he died of cancer. It is somewhat UNCOMMON KNOWLEDGE, however, that not only did The Commission acknowledge St. Louis as an official borgata, aka The Giordano Family... But they also appointed Tony G. as overseer of all Colorado Cosa Nostra's gambling rackets, numbers-running, & shylocking, but he included The Capone-era Smaldone Family as part of Tony G's new assignment! Giordano was a tough guy, he surrounded himself w/incredibly sharp wiseguys, such as his longtime underboss, 'Uncle Joe' Cammarata, & the family's unofficial consigliere, even after he officially retired, John 'Johnny V' Vitale. Vitale would also twice serve as acting boss. The first time, I believe(?), was during a fairly brief prison stint that Giordano was serving, & the 2nd time, that was immediately after Giordano's death, & the subsequent St. Louis car bomb war of 1980, which began with Horseshoe Jimmy's pal, Tony G, passing away. Giordano had been able to guarantee Michaels' safety from an insurgent Syrian faction of Michael's own Syrian Mob, The Leisure brothers. However... That stint as acting boss only lasted a couple of yrs, as Giordano left the official boss position to one of his Detroit Partnership 'connected' guys, one that just so happened to be his blood nephew, his sister's son Matthew 'Mikey Boy' Trupiano. He had Vitale bring him to St. Louis, straighten him out, & then appoint him official Giordano Family boss. And ppl have to remember... In 1950-1955, St. Louis was the largest it'd ever been, & it was also a Top 10 largest city for most, if not all, of Giordano's reign. The Giordanos were considered to've had as many as 65-to-75 'made' guys @ their heighth of power, not counting the administration of the family... So 68-to-78 actual wiseguys... That's as big as, if not bigger than, The DeCavalcante Family, for hell's sake! And if there were 75 guys AND the administration, that's roughly equivalent to Philly's Bruno Crime Family! Also, Giordano was just as tight, if not (& most probably) tighter, w/The Detroit Partnership, than he was w/The Chicago Outfit OR The Civella Crime Family.... Though he was still definitely very tight w/both of the latter-mentioned syndicates too. Absolutely so. And back in the 1950s & 1960s, maybe even into the '70s, the access St. Louis had to The Mississippi River loading docks... It was almost like having NYC's docks to manipulate, except on a gigantic river, as opposed to the ocean! But please forgive me... I got off subject. As you can probably see, I'm passionate abt The Giordano Crime Family. But yes... I've heard tell that Benny 'squints' Lombardo asked Chin, on his deathbed, "Honor Fat Tony as boss for awhile. Then, when the time is right, ask him to step down." And that's what happened! But although Sammy told it this way, doesn't make it so. I was talking to @OC Shortz in his comment section once, & he said that from everything he heard, meaning tapes, wiretaps, etc, Fat Tony was *never* official Genovese Family boss! He was only ever a Genovese street boss... But to our mutual points, Fat Tony is caught on a bug overruling Paul Castellano... The *alleged* unofficial capo di tutti capi... Or, 'boss of all bosses'! So yeah... I think that, since Junior Persico & Philip 'Rusty' Rastelli were incarcerated for most of both their reigns... Fat Tony was the more powerful man in the #1, top-tier, Ivy-League-of-Cosa-Nostra, Genovese Crime Family... Another truth Sammy actually confessed?! That The Gambinos only rivaled The Genovese in sheer numbers. Everything else? The Gambinos were a strong #2, & that's it! John Alite, a renowned liar, but who was on record for a couple yrs w/Junior Gotti's crew, he's also admitted that The Gambinos were really just a strong #2 as well. And this is one of the very few, if any other times, you'll 'hear' me say, "I believe John Alite on this one!" LBVS! But I do! To Alite's point... Gotti, in his $3,000 suits (probably abt $6, 750 in today's money!) & hand-painted neckties, his tanning bed tan, & his perfectly quaffed, immovable hair, (rapidly receding hairline & all)... He was like someone straight outta central casting or some shit, & that sold papers! And particularly, it sold NYC gossip mags! But, Andy Warhol did famously do a painting of him that landed on the cover of Time Magazine too... Not very Cosa Nostra, is it? Hehe.
@@josephsierzengaIV Last thing: Who do you have Frank 'Funzi' Tieri serve as a street boss for?? I know he was one, just not exactly when, or for whom! Any info is appreciated!
Great movie. I think the book the movie is based on isn't that good though. I think Scorsese made a pretty great movie about a book as fake as Kim Kardashian's ass. While both Nicholas Pileggi books were great, they were real stories, where there is proof the things really happened like that. It's pretty known Frank Sheeran didn't do half the things that happened in the movie. Mr. Scorsese could do an absolutely amazing movie about Crazy Joe Gallo! Or maybe exploring the real Philly Mob in Nicky Scarfo's days.
@josephballard3641 kinda but not really, the comedy aspects wouldn't derail the flow or atmosphere in Scorsese past films. For example, in goodfellas during the poker scene when spider told Tommy to go **** himself there was a moment where it was kinda funny since spider was hobbling from the injury tommy gave him meanwhile everyones laughing at Tommy and joking around until Tommy brings the serious tone and atmosphere back on track. Not saying the Irishman was a terrible movie but it just felt like it was having a hard time distinguishing itself.
The movie completely ignores something that's common knowledge, now; Tony Salerno was NEVER the Boss of the Genovese. Vincent "The Chin" Gigante was, and had been for years.
I think it's sad Scorcese keeps to Deniro and older actors in these movies, even DiCaprio. We all know gangster movies are dead or dying. Atleast good ones lite Goodfellas and so on. Scorcese should use younger actors that might take over the gangster style movies. I think Irishman could have worked with unknown actors and if it was received with praise maybe we would have new actors that could spark a renaissance in the genre. Maybe only use Pesci or one "old" actor. Then we might've had a future but as it is now after Scorcese dies the genre dies. I see no new director or actor that can take over.
I like cineranter irishman videos more than the actual movie. Remember when old man liberal deniro went to beat up the guy at the grocery store? Completely ruined the suspension of disbelief. If i were richie aprile id give him a hot coffee pot to the face
lol "liberal" as if that's relevant to the scene or his ability to plausibly beat up that guy. he's an actor, you can't separate his politics from his role? it's because he's old that the scene sucks. was he somehow less liberal when he played Travis Bickle?
@@miracle_grrrl_mira for some reason conservatives only recently found out that most people in the entertainment industry and art are left leaning, this fact bothers them, that most artists are left leaning
![Kumamoto Masters Japan 2024 | Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] vs. Akane Yamaguchi (JPN) [2] | F](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIjZybhsWqA/mqdefault.jpg)
they made him a Hoffa he couldn't refuse
Lmao. Shaddap. Good stuff
😂😂😂😂
Nice!
yowza
This made me laugh, and shake my head at the same time LMAO good one
I read the book a couple times (I Heard You Paint Houses) a few years ago, and my recollection was that they make it pretty clear that “Frank Sheeran Appreciation Night” is more or less the decisive night when things reached a head.
It’s a bit different in the book though, as there are two Frank Sheeran Appreciation Nights - a public one (which is what we see in the film) but in the book there is also a “private” party on a different night, where everyone invited was connected. I believe it was on that night (which Hoffa was not present for) that the machinations are put into motion.
Ain’t nobody reading all that chief
@@kieranhill993then go back to the caves you illiterate 😂
@kieranhill993 it's two paragraphs, try Hooked On Phonics
@@kieranhill993dumbass
@@MortimerYoungwhat ever happened to hooked on phonics, I thought it was fun as a kid. Ironically my English is garbage
The Irish Man is the greatest slow burn film I've ever seen in my life especially towards the end. WOW!
I believe there was a general agreement that Jimmy had to either retire or die from the moment Tony Salerno said, "We can't have that!" That Russell sincerely tried to make the retirement happen and gave up only when he had that last talk with Jimmy. When Tony Pro saw Jimmy dancing with Peggy, I think he ran back to try to persuade the others that Frank should be killed, too. Russell saved Frank, and maybe Peggy, by agreeing to have Frank do the hit, just as he'd saved him once before when Frank blew up the laundry.
It should also be considered that the movie greatly downplays Tony Jack's role in all this. In real life, he was much more than Tony Pro's cousin. He was the Detroit mob boss, and the hit happened on his turf. This is why I think that ultimately it was Tony Jack who ordered the hit after getting all the other bosses to sign on, including Chicago, Florida, New York, everybody. And I think the people who carried it out were all Tony Jack's men, that ultimately all the false rumors of where Hoffa was buried had been generated as decoys by Tony Jack himself. It was said of Tony Jack that he was smart enough to have run a Fortune 500 company. Late in life, Frank falsely claimed to have done it because it would sell more books and provide income for his daughters. Still, I love this movie because it got the "whats" and "hows" right, and only fudged on the "whos."
Billy Jack...Tony Jack's brother was on the scene when Jimmy was killed. It happened at Licata's house on Long Lake....Tony was present the whole day at the Southfield Athletic Club. It happened on their turf and Tony Pro's guy Briggulio was on the scene repping Tony Pro. Took his body down in Hamtramack to the junk recycling center the Partnership's owned and got rid of the body.
@@doriandenard5846How do you know this, is there any reliable source? I'm honestly asking.
I do agree Tony Jack's role in the movie was downplayed. Patrick Gallo is an excellent actor, but maybe should have been casted in another role
@@theportugueselegend I have sources locally that knew EXACTLY what happened and we wouldn't be friends anymore if I divulged it. Just know that the scenario presented is pretty much how it happened. The collaboration of certain individuals made him disappear. Licata's marriage into the Partnership's clan couldn't save him because 6 years to the day he killed himself in the very same house and the exact day Hoffa came up missing. He was bad mouthing his brother-in-law who happened to be the boss of the family. Word is, his wife was sleeping in the living room when he shot himself TWICE in the head. Partnership's specialty, other than keeping themselves out of sight, but making people either DISAPPEAR or make it look totally SUICIDAL. The actual shooter actually died in 2020. So do some research on the Detroit Partnership past and present and you'll find your answer.
@@doriandenard5846 Thanks, I believe you, and I'll have a look
I think the argument wasn't whether they kill Jimmy. It was whether they kill Frank. Since Frank was so close to Jimmy the top guys were unsure where his loyalties were. Why else have Frank kill Jimmy himself but to make him prove his loyalty? There were a bunch of guys there already, and any of them could have pulled the trigger. Frank had to show who he was with. Fat Tony wasn't going to leave something like that to chance-he either had to know, or he was going to get rid of Frank as well to tie up the loose ends.
Frank didn't know what a good friend he had in Russell.
@egyptian316 Actually, IF you believe the book, which I read LONG before the movie was even filmed, it sounds like he actually DID have an idea because he (Sheeran) so much as says that not only had Bufalino interceded (and NOT because Bufalino was obligated to either) on his behalf MANY times prior (in unrelated incidences) to Hoffa's "disappearance" (that's right, ever since reading Arthur Sloane's "Hoffa", I'm CONVINCED Hoffa got himself killed, even though we don't know WHO really did the deed and, again, that was BEFORE this movie), his loyalties were to Bufalino first, due to their history, and, because of that (and the Commission's apparent respect for Bufalino himself), he was spared being killed himself by being put in on the hit. Sheeran went on to say that it was not only to make sure he couldn't get back at the Mafia (that is, by avenging Hoffa's murder), it was his chance to prove where his loyalties lay and that he could still be trusted! Being shaped by hard times (the Great Depression and World War II; the real-life Sheeran was the same age as my paternal grandfather, who'd died a few years before Hoffa) makes you appreciate it when people are looking out for you, however ironic it may sound in Sheeran's case! All this, of course, is if you're to believe the story (I mean Sheeran's), never mind the movie and all of it's dramatizations. As for Jimmy Hoffa, it's obvious he played with fire and got burned (by all accounts, he knew how dangerous the people he was dealing with were and, f.y.i., NO, I will NOT make wisecracks about what happened to him; I'm aware his children are still alive and that he's got grandchildren and great-grandchildren, apparently)!
It’s almost impossible to believe Hoffa didn’t know he was in imminent danger. Yet he took no precautions
They wouldn’t dare!
I know things
I know things they don’t know
I have tapes
@@SmartDave60Did his knowledge of mafia crimes ever get exposed or used by the law enforcement agencies???
@@peterl3417 I’m just speaking within the context of the movie.
Hoffa took no precautions because he thought he was untouchable.
@@SmartDave60 Didn’t the unions get fucked up bad after Hoffa’s death? So maybe he had a dead mans switch or something that released all that dirt after he died.
Arrogance!!
*Jimmy Hoffa was like the Michael Scott of the mafia...😂😂😂*
Please keep "The Irishman" videos coming.
Here's my 2 cents . . . the decision to whack Hoffa was made at the appreciation night, with the three together at the table. The details of the how and where were finalized with the phone call.
Agreed keep them coming!
It was made when he didn't know when to back down
It's a fun film but full of lies for dramatic effect,frank Sheeran DID NOT kill Jimmy Hoffa.... plenty of mob men have stated that
@@hoze1235That was true about the real-life Hoffa (he'd been warned NUMEROUS times).
Tony Salerno is an interesting figure in real life. He posed as the real boss of the Genovese family to direct attention from Vincent Gigante who pretended he was mentally ill. TS went to prison and died there, never having ratted. Interesting that this set up wasn’t mentioned in the film as TS took no decisions, VG did.
Because it's how that was in real life. Fat Tony appeared everywhere, and he did take some decisions by himself. But in big decisions (like the Genoveses supporting Jimmy getting wacked) the okay from Chin was needed
I’ve watched the Irishman three times, will go for a 4th in a couple of months. Brilliant film, outstanding acting especially by Pacino and Pesci.
I've only seen it once and I'm getting more inclined to watching it again.
@@Based_StuhlingerYou should! There's things we don't see in the first watch that we got when we rewatch it. It's a pretty good movie. Not on Casino's level in my opinion, but pretty good!
@@theportugueselegend I Just watched it yesterday and three and a half hours went like nothing, the film is gold.
Pesci looks like an absolute boss as Bufalino with Tony Pro and Fat Tony by his side.
Really love the Irishman videos. An absolute classic film that should be examined. Thank you.
I was never able to take it seriously
@@DanJuega , neither was I. All of Scorsese's mob films involve fabricated mob stories and are presented as fact, yet the films worked out fantastically.
The Irishman was just too far stretched and the decision to use de-aging CGI just blew it.
"far stretched" lmao how? Even if the de aging is flawed, suspend your disbelief ya cynic. If it wasn't the same actors all the way through then it wouldn't have the impact it does.
@@cynicaltheastrocreep4504 Suspension of disbelief can only take you so far before it breaks. You think the Godfather 2 would have more impact if they could've have a de-aged Marlon Brando instead of Robert DeNiro. Cause it's laughable to say it would.
@@DanJuega definitely. Hiring a different actor definitely creates some disconnect but often it's the only choice, or at least was back then. I would say most of it in the Irishman looks pretty good, when they're supposed to be really young it does look off but it's good for most of the film. I think you just have this pretentious "I'm better than that" attitude at his movies because they take some liberties to tell the most interesting story, not the exact truth.
Definitely make more videos on The Irishman
One of the best analyses of the The Irishman's trajectory.
Very good channel.
I think that they gave the okay near the end - It was when Hoffa was originally going to skip the wedding that they were all going to gather at for a peace mission. Hoffa states that he wasn't planning on attending the wedding anymore and that he didn't want Pro at said meeting. This I think was the true final straw - and even him changing his mind and agreeing to sit down with Tony Jack and Pro, by that point it was too late.
The scene where theyre eating cereal at the motel is one of my favorite scorcese scenes
Hoffa stepping down and retiring would have saved a lot of people the heartache and suffering of his loss.
I think when he gave him the ring he was saving him in a way. If he was with Hoffa he would be killed too. Having him kill Hoffa also proved it to the other Bosses. Plus best man for the job. Hoffa trusted him
Agreed. They usually give the job of murdering someone to a close friend of theirs.
Is the sunglasses scene Russell’s way of saying your coming back, I’ll hold onto them? Meaning the hit is just jimmy, and not Frank as well.
Could be! Interesting idea.
He was testing his loyalty, Frank didn't question him and gave his glasses to Russ, proving he was still loyal
No "why, or what for"
Joe Pesci played this part so well
And I think the hit got approved when Russell couldn't convince Jimmy to step down.
When a mob boss asks you politely to do something it’s not a request
I think as soon as Jimmy quit being a team player by putting his own interests above the Teamsters
along with dragging his feet with the mob was the moment it was decided that he needed to step down.
After that it was just a matter of how much Jimmy decided to resist his severance package.
The exit plan for him went from simply letting him walk away quietly to "It's simpler to throw him in a dumpster".
@6610stix In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if his body was actually incinerated, considering it's not been found after all these years (and he's not been seen or heard from since July 30, 1975; it's my understanding even his own family suspected foul play from the beginning).
@@thomasshort1784 I'm confident he be found someday. Even if that someday is 10,000 years from now and he is found
plastered flat as a frisbee between a stack of illegally dumped asbestos and truckload of bootleg 8-track disco tapes.
I really have to give the Irishman another watch. My first viewing of the film ... I did not enjoy it as much as Scorsese's previous films. (Taxi Driver & Raging Bull are among my favorite films of all time). I just thought the Irishman lingered ... And, as you know, the Godfathers I & II are my favorite American films of all time and I don't think the Irishman had enough story to comprise the entirety of its running time. I didn't think it was a bad movie, just not in the same conversation as the aforementioned greats. I'm glad you decided to take this in a different way than whether or not the film was good or bad, but focusing on this specific point does bring some intrigue to a film that, I felt, was largely devoid of it. I don't know if I was just in a mood at my time of watching it, but it just dragged forever and ever ... and 2001: A Space Odyssey is a film I can watch every week, so I'm not against slower paced films. I don't know, maybe I should give it another shot. (no pun intended!)
Great content man, hope to speak with you again soon!
How would a stranger making a video online ever know that Godfather 1&2 are your favourite?
@@chrisbarrett8377desperate to be a dick? Carry on go be toxic to the people in your life.
The fight in prison, the Florida sit down, and others gives me feeling the of a "failure to communicate." A failure to communicate and a failure to understand one another, which makes sense to me because none of these people can see past themselves. Except maybe Jimmy, which is why those around him can't understand him. When he said "you people," I don't think he meant it how it was taken. Derogatory for sure but more on the line of, "you mobsters." Same with his attachment to the Union, it wasn't just something there to be scammed. Considering the thought that he may have actually cared what happened to his people the whole thing becomes more tragic because it shifts what he's warring over. Tony was going on about what he's owed. Consider Frank's position and what Tony said, what is he owed? The legal isn't Frank's fault. Tony is a mobster so what does the Union owe him who's job is exploitation?
There's also the continued reminder to people about their place in that life. The bosses didn't think of Jimmy as one of them so it's interesting and ironic they can't understand why he doesn't go along with things as someone who is "one of them" would. In their eyes he was another political figure in it only for reward, it's the only kind of people they know. Nobody ever really cares about whatever's being scammed. For all the masking, concealing, and understanding of intentions no one can ever grasp a person's motivations. FBI guys can't understand why who or what Frank is protecting. Frank's daughter's couldn't understand why he did what he did. Frank didn't understand how his idea of protecting and providing for his family was destroying it. The Mob didn't fully understand Jimmy and what the union meant to him. Jimmy misunderstood his importance, all the reasons he said they wouldn't dare are why they did.
Then there's all the people in between communications and people who should, never speak directly.
I think there is something to be said about who they're all surrounded by individually. Jimmy isn't constantly surrounded by people who only care about themselves, the union may not just be a faceless entity to be exploited. Feels like Jimmy is trying to balance a self-serving life so he can maintain a more self-less one.
This was a great film. It is a thinking person’s movie, subtle, intelligent, and menacing in a uneasily calm way. The violence is needed but is actually just done in a matter of fact way… just business. Violence occurs because it is needed to maintain control and power, not for the enjoyment of mayhem. Hoffa had to go because .. well he simply had to go.
In the film, the decision to kill Hoffa happened during Frank’s appreciation night. Hoffa maybe could have talked his way out of it but he refused.
The slow maneuvering in the rest of the movie was an example of how the mob could control an associate like Frank, to get him to show his loyalty to the mob.
Pesci does a great job as Russell Bufalino as the controller.
As for the film, The Irishman completes a trilogy of Scorsese mob movies. It is the bridge between the world of Goodfellas to how the high roller world of Casino was built.
I actually loved the film yes I will admit it was dry in the beginning but once you get over the dry scenes towards the middle and climax of the film it starts to get interesting
Historically accurate or not, I personally thought it was a great movie.
I really didn't like this film. To me, it felt like it was bloated, a little meandering, and only became so popular because of nostalgia - putting all these old gangster actors on the screen together for "one last time" for the fans.
That scene where DeNiro "beat up" the guy was just awful. It looked more like one of those dreams you have where you try to hit someone a bunch of times and they just shrug it off.
I feel it could have benefited with being shorter and using newer actors.
This movie was never very popular outside of its initial run because it was highly anticipated and released essentially for free on a streaming service so everyone and their mother saw it. After a year following its release I can’t recall anyone ever talking about it outside of RUclips clips
One HUGEA thing you forgot is earlier in the film someone tries to make an attempt on hoffa life in the court room. I think the decision was made after one of the tony pro meetings
The Irishmen is definitely martins most divisive movie .
He should have rushed the gun the way he told his son to.
Hi.
Notcy here.
Our intel suggests that Hoffa was disappeared.
But not killed.
When they realised he had the gut and gait of an eighty year old man
Great analysis
Wow, a lot of great story elements and intrigue were involved with The Irishman that I never knew existed. Never knew cause I could barely make it past one viewing in what looked like Scorsese's CGI gangster version of Cats.
Very well explained and detailed as usual Shaz...hope you're in good health? All the best...God Bless my friend! 😇🙏👍
Hope you're well my friend!
You may or may not know this, but the "JAKE GOTTLIEB" character in THE IRISHMAN was based on real life Hoffa Attorney and close confidante - MORRIS SHENKER who obtained millions of dollars in loans from Hoffa's Teamsters Pension Fund to buy the DUNES HOTEL in Vegas. There were a few other Casinos in Vegas that also borrowed money from the Teamsters, so when Hoffa got out of prison and threatened to take back his position from Fitz...those mobsters who were skimming millions in untaxed dollars from the various countrooms in those Hotel/Casinos, knew their "Cash Cows" were in jeopardy, so that's when I believe they ALL realized Hoffa had to be killed?
It's worth the 3 n a half hours just for the Stephen graham scenes alone!!
I read this comment at work and rushed home to watch clips of his scenes but there was traffic and I was 7 1/2 minutes late
Hahahaha 5 mins is acceptable no more!!
It was that eventual ceremony. We all know.
I think throughout the trip to Detroit for the wedding, Russ knew about the decision
One thing for sure is, it sure did cause some dysentery in the ranks
The film had alot of holes in it factually frank Sheeran for a FACT...did not kill gallo or hoffa...that makes the movie kind of weak right off the bat
Do they know who killed them?
@@peteyprimo7173 Michael Franzese who was in the Colombo family at that time of Hoffa,he knows...he just won't say the name of the guy who told him for sure...you have to realize SOMEBODY knows or knew who killed him just because it's never been revealed doesn't mean somebody doesn't KNOW but it wasn't Sheeran...gallo was in the colombo family at the same time Mike father was,,,so they know these things
It was when buffliano agreed and stared at Jimmy that was it and then the dancing with the daughter who he tried to win over and he sees Jimmy dancing with her at that moment
I enjoyed the movie but I also believe Sheeran wasn’t involved in Hoffa’s death.
At the dinner. Duh. Lol
2 issues, first is personal., actors are to old for the first part, secondly they never address the issue if hoffa having something agaisnt them.
What do you mean like dirt on them?
I needed this explanation.
Al Pacino didn’t sell it for me playing Hoffa.
Amazing movie and an Amazing acting. Al Pacino is one of my favourite actors but dam it was a rare miss. Just my opinion
Could you further elaborate why Al didn’t pull it off?
@@SmartDave60 I am into the history of the Hoffa/Mob/JFK/Hoover all that crap.
In my opinion having watched
The movies Blood Feud and Hoffa plus documentaries Al Pacino ( sorry I’m not on a firs
t name basis like you are with him) doesn’t come close to the part. Al Pacino acted the same way as in Devils Advocate plus a few others. He doesn’t look like Hoffa and mannerisms are off.
It seemed to be overacting for overacting sake and forced.
@@bp2352 I was born in ‘69 so I vaguely remember Hoffa when he was in the news after his disappearance. And I totally agree Al wasn’t a convincing Hoffa physically.
But I loved his acting in it.
I did find his rage and ego portraying Hoffa convincing.
@@SmartDave60 Oh cool. I was in born 74 you must remember T.V when they still smoked on air. I re read my comment and I sounded like an ass saying I wasn’t on a first name basis like you. This is RUclips. You really could be in which that would be Fu&k!ng awesome.
@@bp2352 smoking was taken off the air on ‘68 I believe.
And no I don’t know Al ..
but would call him Mr Pacino if I ever met ‘em.
The Tony Salerno scenes are iffy. Buffalino wasn’t connected to NYC. He was connected to Philly and Buffalo. It’s not likely that he was having meetings with high level NYC mobsters.
The Philly family is basically the 6th NYC family. Philly mob leadership is decided and voted on by the NY crime families. If you're dealing with Angelo Bruno or Nicky Scarfo you're dealing with an extension of the Gambino family. But this movie isn't accurate.
All of them deserved a bad end. Not enough of them did.
Because he wanted his union back. 15 mins saved.
When you talk about the mob, publicly. Thats the end of you.
The mafia definitely wacked Hoffa, but a lot of ex mafia guys with intimate knowledge say frank sheran is lying.
Ofcourse they do. They can't admit that a non-mobster would kill a high profile guy like Hoffa. They like the "mystery" too much.
It's hard to assume any facts or reach conclusions about the events leading to Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance based on The Irishman. Let's face it, most if not all the claims by Frank Sheeran in the movie were proved to be pure fiction including Sheearan's killing of Hoffa, Crazy Joe and his involvement in the preparation for the Bay of Pigs. Having said that, The Irishman is a movie worth watching over and over despite the debunked claims of Sheeran.
@fattony9227 While I agree with most of your points, I disagree with your point about the movie because Hollywood is NOTORIOUS for embellishing stories about real-life events and even people to the point that you can't discern what's true and what's a lie (examples: Ty Cobb, Jimmy Hoffa, even Johnny Cash, to name a few), which I why I don't like biopics (and why, if interested, I'll make it a point to research the real people or events)! If anything, I've learned 9 times out of 10, that the real person (and that includes Jimmy Hoffa) is usually more interesting, if not intriguing, anyway.
Which decade should The Irishman had been made? 80s, 90s or 2000s?
20 years ago would have been much more appropriate for the casting
In the book I heard you paint houses the dislike for Jimmy from certain mobsters starts after his altercation in the can with Pro. Certain mobsters also didn't like how Jimmy was close to Carmine Galante in prison and also didn't like that Galante took up for Jimmy in that beef with Pro and they both died less than a decade later. My family are all labor union leaders in Philly on my moms side some characters portrayed mostly minor ones were close friends of my grandfather who was head of Philly Building Trades. It is beleived my grandfather attended the Frank Appreciation Night because it is the only time he met Hoffa and the age my mom was when he come home that night matches up timeline wise not to mention John McCullough put the dinner together a close friend of his but there's alot more I won't get into groundbreaking stuff but it's stuff I don't get into.
The de ageing in this film was obnoxious and unnecessary. Why would anyone think it's ok to try and make an 75 year old man look like someone in their 20s? I understand that it's difficult to match up a young actor with an older one, but at least it doesn't completely take you out of the scene.
True. The beating he gave to the store owner was hard to watch
Ideally they would've just found a great actor in his 40s a la de Niro in godfather but when the entire selling point of the movie is de Niro, pacino, and pesci, no one would have been happy with replacing half their screen time with some other less famous but younger actor.
@@GYI5Uyeah like an Alessandro Nivola or some rando like that
Scorsese is an old man who’s already proven his film skills, now he’s just having fun making movies and experimenting with ideas. Certainly not something worth getting upset over.😂😂
@@higginswalsan well I’m upset damn it. It’s been like 5 years and I haven’t been the same ever since I watched it
It is what it is.
The minute they told him he wasn't the president of the union anymore an he said no I'm not stepping down he killed himself
Yessss this video was the one!!!
Easy when Hoffa trued to get back in
Jimmy was marked the second he paid a hand on a made guy just a matter of when.
This movie was crap,as far as far who this actually killed.
Really, the only place where this movie is bs is when the goons were loading Browning M2 50 cal. machine guns into trucks like they were boxes of cotton candy. Everything else is 100% historical.
as soon as he became a pain in the ass....and they didn't need him...and Hoffa couldn't
Because Scorsese wanted it that way!
Excellent analyis as always.
I wonder if the reason why frank felt so bad about for the rest of his long life was that he couldnt get jimmy to understand that the mafia WILL get him whacked if he doesnt back down. Even tho they had many talks about it but still.
-They wouldnt dare
-Dont say they wouldnt dare Jimmy, dont say they wouldnt dare..
A numpty telling us what the first level viewing of the movie tells us....just what no one asked for.
He sold everything to safe his neck that’s the truth
He had wore out his usefulness!!
Love this movie
I doubt that there is much truth to this movie.
Wish these dudes weren’t 250 years old.
Al Pacino was miscasted as Hoffa who was a bulky vigorous man. Pacino seemed way to old and no resemblance to hoffa.
Fat Tony (& Funzi Tieri) was *Genovese street boss,* but we don't know for certain if he was ever *official boss,* but I'd argue that a Genovese street boss was more powerful than 2 families' bosses, & later on down the line, when Vic Amuso, maybe the least-deserving boss ever, & his (under)boss🙄, Anthony 'gaspipe' Casso basically sold out & f@¢ked up their ENTIRE borgata, also stronger than the Lucchese boss, as well! The Chin was the real power for a long, long time! And being his handpicked street boss... ?? Had to be a powerful position... 110%.
Yes we do! Tony was named Boss from Lombardo.
Unfortunately he had a stroke and they didn’t know how he would recover..
Meantime Chin filled the void. After about a year of convalescing he missed the action and returned on a part time basis and let Chin keep the Boss position and he took the Streeboss position bc everyone already thought he was Boss! He handled pretty much all day to day things and handled the Commission side of business.
You know this how? I've heard Sammy the Bull tell a version similar to this, only he seemed to state that Benny 'Squints' Lombardo got Chin to agree to acknowledge Tony as boss, but that eventually, Chin would take over, & that, yes, after Fat Tony's stroke, Chin sent word to him that he was taking over, but that Fat Tony would still get the boss title, & run the borgata, day-to-day... But that Gigante was now official boss. But in tapes made by Vinny 'Fish' Cafaro, it seems the evidence points to the contrary, I believe(?).
@@matthewrider5906 WoW! Sammy actually said something true???lol
I stopped watching him after I realized all his channel was is a RE-telling of his book that came out almost 30yrs ago…
I have a collection of over 100 books on the genre. And an extensive collection of FBI reports, 302’s, etc.
It’s been covered actually in a few of the better non mainstream books but I do believe quite certainly it was discussed in “Five Families” by S. Raab even…
But you are correct, it was giving to ‘Fat Tony’ out of seniority and respect but ‘Chin’ was the heir apparent who would eventually take over and did sooner than expected…Funzi was always ‘SteetBoss’ and in that administration there was no shades of grey.
You are also on the money when you say ‘Fat Tony’ had more authority than other Borgatas #1’s…
‘Big Paul’ was prob the only one who could contest him outright, and even then as long as it didn’t interfere with Paul’s bottom line even he would defer to Salerno.
‘Tony Ducks’ and him came up together and were regular pals… and he never wanted to cross him.
“Tell em go complain to ‘Fat Tony’”
And all the other Bosses just simply were not on that level in NY. Not even close…
@@josephsierzengaIV Yeah, I agree abt Gravano 110%. He's simply a grifter. But he told the version I relayed to you before I stopped watching him. I'm a bit of an amateur Cosa Nostra buff, myself. But that's more to do w/my labor union official grandfather who had, *alleged,* hehe, but alleged St. Louis Giordano Crime Family 'friends,' from all the way back in the late '50s/earliest '60s, all the way through til the new president of Pipefitters Local #562, my grandfather's, uncles', & my father's union, President Ed Steska, who'd vowed to "clean up" the local, was murdered in his office @ the union hall complex, while he was on the phone with, according to many ppl, James 'Horseshoe Jimmy' Michaels Sr, also a high-ranking organized labor leader & the boss of The Syrian Mob in St. Louis... But one thing we know FOR CERTAIN?!?! NOBODY got killed from Pipefitters Local #562 w/out the greenlight from one Don Anthony 'Tony G' Giordano! He ran the St. Louis borgata from 1950, when he declared St. Louis's independence from the Civella Crime Family outta KC, til 1980, when he died of cancer. It is somewhat UNCOMMON KNOWLEDGE, however, that not only did The Commission acknowledge St. Louis as an official borgata, aka The Giordano Family... But they also appointed Tony G. as overseer of all Colorado Cosa Nostra's gambling rackets, numbers-running, & shylocking, but he included The Capone-era Smaldone Family as part of Tony G's new assignment! Giordano was a tough guy, he surrounded himself w/incredibly sharp wiseguys, such as his longtime underboss, 'Uncle Joe' Cammarata, & the family's unofficial consigliere, even after he officially retired, John 'Johnny V' Vitale. Vitale would also twice serve as acting boss. The first time, I believe(?), was during a fairly brief prison stint that Giordano was serving, & the 2nd time, that was immediately after Giordano's death, & the subsequent St. Louis car bomb war of 1980, which began with Horseshoe Jimmy's pal, Tony G, passing away. Giordano had been able to guarantee Michaels' safety from an insurgent Syrian faction of Michael's own Syrian Mob, The Leisure brothers. However... That stint as acting boss only lasted a couple of yrs, as Giordano left the official boss position to one of his Detroit Partnership 'connected' guys, one that just so happened to be his blood nephew, his sister's son Matthew 'Mikey Boy' Trupiano. He had Vitale bring him to St. Louis, straighten him out, & then appoint him official Giordano Family boss. And ppl have to remember... In 1950-1955, St. Louis was the largest it'd ever been, & it was also a Top 10 largest city for most, if not all, of Giordano's reign. The Giordanos were considered to've had as many as 65-to-75 'made' guys @ their heighth of power, not counting the administration of the family... So 68-to-78 actual wiseguys... That's as big as, if not bigger than, The DeCavalcante Family, for hell's sake! And if there were 75 guys AND the administration, that's roughly equivalent to Philly's Bruno Crime Family! Also, Giordano was just as tight, if not (& most probably) tighter, w/The Detroit Partnership, than he was w/The Chicago Outfit OR The Civella Crime Family.... Though he was still definitely very tight w/both of the latter-mentioned syndicates too. Absolutely so. And back in the 1950s & 1960s, maybe even into the '70s, the access St. Louis had to The Mississippi River loading docks... It was almost like having NYC's docks to manipulate, except on a gigantic river, as opposed to the ocean! But please forgive me... I got off subject. As you can probably see, I'm passionate abt The Giordano Crime Family.
But yes... I've heard tell that Benny 'squints' Lombardo asked Chin, on his deathbed, "Honor Fat Tony as boss for awhile. Then, when the time is right, ask him to step down." And that's what happened! But although Sammy told it this way, doesn't make it so. I was talking to @OC Shortz in his comment section once, & he said that from everything he heard, meaning tapes, wiretaps, etc, Fat Tony was *never* official Genovese Family boss! He was only ever a Genovese street boss... But to our mutual points, Fat Tony is caught on a bug overruling Paul Castellano... The *alleged* unofficial capo di tutti capi... Or, 'boss of all bosses'! So yeah... I think that, since Junior Persico & Philip 'Rusty' Rastelli were incarcerated for most of both their reigns... Fat Tony was the more powerful man in the #1, top-tier, Ivy-League-of-Cosa-Nostra, Genovese Crime Family... Another truth Sammy actually confessed?! That The Gambinos only rivaled The Genovese in sheer numbers. Everything else? The Gambinos were a strong #2, & that's it! John Alite, a renowned liar, but who was on record for a couple yrs w/Junior Gotti's crew, he's also admitted that The Gambinos were really just a strong #2 as well. And this is one of the very few, if any other times, you'll 'hear' me say, "I believe John Alite on this one!" LBVS! But I do! To Alite's point... Gotti, in his $3,000 suits (probably abt $6, 750 in today's money!) & hand-painted neckties, his tanning bed tan, & his perfectly quaffed, immovable hair, (rapidly receding hairline & all)... He was like someone straight outta central casting or some shit, & that sold papers! And particularly, it sold NYC gossip mags! But, Andy Warhol did famously do a painting of him that landed on the cover of Time Magazine too... Not very Cosa Nostra, is it? Hehe.
@@josephsierzengaIV Last thing: Who do you have Frank 'Funzi' Tieri serve as a street boss for?? I know he was one, just not exactly when, or for whom! Any info is appreciated!
Thanks
Thank you!
@@CineRanter no thank you CR. Always awesome.
Great movie. I think the book the movie is based on isn't that good though. I think Scorsese made a pretty great movie about a book as fake as Kim Kardashian's ass.
While both Nicholas Pileggi books were great, they were real stories, where there is proof the things really happened like that. It's pretty known Frank Sheeran didn't do half the things that happened in the movie.
Mr. Scorsese could do an absolutely amazing movie about Crazy Joe Gallo! Or maybe exploring the real Philly Mob in Nicky Scarfo's days.
Deniro don't look irish, like jimmy Conway.
He’s part irish and mostly not Italian
Yes, the irishman was a very long movie, that struggled heavily on its identity.
How'd you figure
Well, there were sections that tried to pass off as a comedy even during the scene that were supposed to be serious.
@@felipesegura4780 but aren't most Scorsese movies laced with comedic overtones?
@@felipesegura4780 what sections?
@josephballard3641 kinda but not really, the comedy aspects wouldn't derail the flow or atmosphere in Scorsese past films.
For example, in goodfellas during the poker scene when spider told Tommy to go **** himself there was a moment where it was kinda funny since spider was hobbling from the injury tommy gave him meanwhile everyones laughing at Tommy and joking around until Tommy brings the serious tone and atmosphere back on track.
Not saying the Irishman was a terrible movie but it just felt like it was having a hard time distinguishing itself.
The movie completely ignores something that's common knowledge, now; Tony Salerno was NEVER the Boss of the Genovese. Vincent "The Chin" Gigante was, and had been for years.
This film is a known lie and was not accurate at all.
Yeah the cast is too old
Deniro was 100 percent mis cast! I just wasnt buying him as tough guy. Even w computers he looked really old. He moved so slow.
Hoffa made a deadly mistake. You just can’t fuck with the Mafia!
Channel is getting tired... Same old crap
I think it's sad Scorcese keeps to Deniro and older actors in these movies, even DiCaprio. We all know gangster movies are dead or dying. Atleast good ones lite Goodfellas and so on.
Scorcese should use younger actors that might take over the gangster style movies. I think Irishman could have worked with unknown actors and if it was received with praise maybe we would have new actors that could spark a renaissance in the genre.
Maybe only use Pesci or one "old" actor. Then we might've had a future but as it is now after Scorcese dies the genre dies. I see no new director or actor that can take over.
fogid aboudit
Sorry I didn't see the movie was it good it had great actors
Trash movie, stick to good stuff like goodfellas,godfather and the sopranos
I like cineranter irishman videos more than the actual movie. Remember when old man liberal deniro went to beat up the guy at the grocery store? Completely ruined the suspension of disbelief. If i were richie aprile id give him a hot coffee pot to the face
lol "liberal" as if that's relevant to the scene or his ability to plausibly beat up that guy. he's an actor, you can't separate his politics from his role? it's because he's old that the scene sucks. was he somehow less liberal when he played Travis Bickle?
@@miracle_grrrl_mira for some reason conservatives only recently found out that most people in the entertainment industry and art are left leaning, this fact bothers them, that most artists are left leaning
@@miracle_grrrl_mira.
Hoffa time he was bitching bout bobby kennedy to notice if the mob was gonna hit him or not. He should have took their hoffa.
He hated all the Kennedy’s and there are like 850 of them. That’s a lot of bitching
@@peteyprimo7173LMFAO THEY ARE NEVA GONNA FORGIVE ME GIVING MONEY TO NIXON.