I don't think the first OP missed the point. I think she was trying to point out the double standards that Linda has for their daughter and OP's son. Linda is requesting that her daughter must be treated equally to the step brother but Linda's family herself doesn't want to provide the same privileges to OP's son.
She may have just expressed herself badly. I feel like there was supposed to be an "aha" moment where she pointed out the double standard to Linda, but that never happened. And then we're sort of left wondering if she actually thought her son should get the money.
Yes, that's how I read it. She was trying to prove a point. I don't think she ever genuinely thought they'd accept. But they were so deep in their hypocrisy that they did not.
I also think that OP didn’t really expect or want anything from Linda’s family, but was a comment to make them see that their logic made no sense. But also following Linda’s family’s logic OP does have a correct point as in both cases it is the family of the child’s other parent - the family of OP’s ex and the family of the new partner’s ex. And if Linda’s family have set up a trust fund for the daughter it also doesn’t seem like it’s a matter of one family or child having a lot and the other child having nothing.
I would never presume to be owed an heirloom after 4 years in a family over somebody who's been in it for 17 years. To be fair, there's no indication of the step-granddaughter herself demanding the heirloom.
I think I'm a bit judgy of the whole process and tradition because to me it sounds extremely old-fashioned and bound to create negative feelings of entitlement and resentment even in uncomplicated situations. That aside, it's the same type of succession principles that we see in the royal family. Like, if Camilla had a son (does she? I don't care enough to look it up) who's older than Prince William, that son wouldn't suddenly become first in line to the throne through his mother's marriage. So the answer is as clear in this aita post as it would be for royal succession.
This may sound a bit pretentious, but the only objects I care about are the ones that are strongly evocative of the connection I shared with another. For example, the only thing I wanted to inherit from my gran was an old baking tray. It wasn't valuable, it wasn't attractive, but in it's flaking enamel there were all the stories she told me as we made scones on a saturday morning. I'd be horrified if I inherited some object I viewed as meaningless that carried strong emotional significance to someone else
When Jenny turned 18, her (step-)mother, OP's daughter, should have given her heirloom necklace to Jenny. OP's daughter is the one not following this silly tradition.
The first OP wasn't missing any point. I think it's entirely fair to say "if you want me to advocate for this, you have to do the same." She wasn't saying she would force her ex to give the step daughter anything, or even that she had a say. Only that she would ask, IF they agreed to do the same for her son. I think that's a fair argument. The mpMIL is the butthole for putting her in that position in the first place.
Which MIL are you referring to? If you're referring to her ex husband's mother, she has every right to provide for her grandson and isn't obliged to give the same to her ex DIL's stepson. And nor is she onliged to not provide for her grandson because he has a new stepsister that's of no direct relation to her.
For the last one I think its ok to invite the nice sister and not a jerky one. It says emma is 11, that is plenty old enough to learn that there are consequences for bad behavior.
Story 1) The family is asking for OP's ex to give their daughter expensive gifts. OP asked about the trust fund to get the point across that asking for things from a completely unrelated family is inappropriate. I feel like Shaaba got way too stuck on OP talking about her ex's resources. That wasn't a serious proposal. It was purely to point out Linda's hypocrisy.
Last one: if Emma wasn't a bully, she would have been invited. Maybe this should be a lesson for mom to not let her little darling be a bully before she ends up with no friends at all. Forcing someone to invite a person that's going to ruin their party is wrong.
Unfortunately, if the mother doesn't see Emma's behavior as a problem, she will ever only see the non-inviting of her daughter as her being unfairly singles out, and excluded by OP. I also don't think Emma is going to learn anything by not being invited when her sister is, all it's going to do is cause Emma to resent her sister, and her behavior might worsen.
@@nergregga Emma is not OP’s priority though, her own daughter is. Yes Emma is OP’s niece and I’m not saying Emma doesn’t deserve to learn better (I believe her parents failed her by letting her misbehave) but Carmen should be OP’s first priority.
@@s.a.4358 I agree. I understand the impulse to try and teach a child who isn't being patented properly what their parents won't teach them, but at the end of the day there's a limit to how much you can do. The parents have much more control over their child than you ever will, and there's not a lot you can do if it's going to be actively countered by bad parenting from the parents. Sorry, I could probably have phrased that better, but in any case my point is this. It's clear Emma's parents are spoiling her and enabling her bad behaviour. So it seems like OP's choice is between inviting Emma and sending her the message that she can bully others all she likes and they will still invite her to their parties. Or not invite her, and have her mother tell her that she's being unfairly picked on and is the victim in this situation. Either way runs the risk of feeding into her bullying, but that's the fault of her parents, not OP. The person it *would* make a difference to is OP's daughter, for whom the choice is between inviting her bully to her birthday and enjoying at least one party free of bullying.
Mother could also use this as a lesson that not everyone is gonna like you and to respect when someone says "no". Like I'm thinking of other examples where their behavior would be more clear and so for example if this was like on a playground and Emma was being the only excluded from some game for being a bully, it's not mother's job to force other kids to play with her but to teach her child that she has to respect that and maybe work on not being a bully.
I genuinely have no idea how to get through to Emma that her behavior has to change if her parents won’t reenforce the new NON BULLYING behavior… OP’s daughter should NOT have to deal with a bully on her birthday & she should be able to choose who she invites, maybe inviting one sister but not the other would be the reality check the bully needs to change her behavior? I’m coming from the place of NOT having kids but being the kid who was forced to invite someone she didn’t want at her party, not by an adult, but a classmate who refused to take “no” for an answer even though other kids in the same class were not invited she was NOT the only one I wasn’t close enough with to willingly invite (granted I was older than the kids in the story) but I wish I had stood my ground with that party when I think back to it….
For the last one - I absolutely agree that she should have talked to her sister about the issue first. It's not a perfect solution, but I think I would have tried to arrange for Ana to take Emma to do something else fun on the same day as the party so that Trixie could still attend without Emma feeling excluded or being invited. The reality of the situation is that one talk with Emma about her behavior probably won't get her to shape up in time for the tea party, established family dynamics like that don't usually just change overnight. Emma's behavior still needs to be addressed, but that sounds like a more long-term issue that the extended family needs to work on together. Keeping her away from the party in a way that minimizes sibling conflict and feelings of exclusion is probably the best thing to do in the short term since her behavior wasn't addressed earlier. A 9 year old girl's birthday party can already be a socially fraught occasion even without added family drama. Trying to curb Emma's behavior at the party itself would probably just lead to more drama and hurt feelings later🤷♀
Yeah, a phone call probably should have happened before the physical invitations went out. On the other hand, the chaotic side of me LOVES the savagery of a child inviting the cousin they like and specifically NOT inviting the cousin they don't like. Brutal honesty is a helluva way to learn.
I think the issue is that Ana hasn’t been addressing Emma’s behavioural issues in the past, so it’s possible a phone call wouldn’t have changed anything. Though, you’re correct, OP still should have reached out beforehand, not just sent the invites without warning.
For the heirloom story, to bequeath something means to leave it to someone. Betrothed is engaged to be married. You got it in the end. You're doing great!
Last one NTA. As a person who was one of 27 cousins growing up, not everyone gets invited, just who you're closest to and that might not always be the one who is the same age. You will never like everyone, that's just life. We have to be kind to everyone, so at family Christmas I'd be talking to my child if they were excluding anyone from play. But their birthday party is their party, their choice. And a good way to learn about social consequences.
4. I never invited any of my friends little sisters to my birthday parties growing up. If OPs daughter is closer to the youngest child (in age/interests/maturity) it makes perfect sense to only invite one. It's not a family reunion it's a friends party (I'm assuming none of the other 8 guests are related to op) You could also argue that you felt like the older sibling wouldn't be interested because it's a little girls party and the tween would be much older than most of the attendees. This is a failure on the cousins parents part not being able to manage a very real life situation. If older cousin got invited to a sleepover would Mom insist that little sibling had to go too? This is family entitlement. She thinks she can push you around just because you're related. Yuck
Additional context for me personally, I'm 3.5 years younger than my sister, so approximately the same age gap as the sisters in OPs story. I was never even INTERESTED in being one of my sisters friends (tagalong) she liked stupid stuff(more mature interests) and her friends weren't as cool as mine(not like actually "cool" I was a huge dork, but like, my friends were dorky in the same way as me and thus cooler, to me)
Last story - NTD you won’t be invited to everything, your siblings will get opportunities that you won’t. It only becomes a problem where your parents are consistently favoring one person over the other. There is a difference in power balance between a family member of your generation and one of a different generation. If the aunt is contributing otherwise to always leaving out the elder niece, then that would make her the drama but it’s the kid’s decision who she wants at the party
YES!!! I NEVER wanted my cousin on my birthday but he was always there because "we don't wanna cause family drama", his mother (my aunt) is lazy, very irresponsible and arrogant. This cousin of mine was a bully, every time he could he would put me down and make me feel bad about myself + all the physical fights. Even in our teenage years he acted the same, he would call me a liar, maniac, schizophrenic etc when I tried to stand my ground and his mother NEVER did anything. I hate him, he is the only person in this world that I truly despise, I'm having to deal with all this rage in therapy because of how much he tormented me. I wish my mother listened to me, I wish she understood that it wasn't just cousins not getting along, I wish she LISTENED ME and my father when we asked to let that cousin out of my life, but noooooooooo, she would always try to make us friends because "she too had a bad relationship with her cousin". Thanks mom, I'm going to therapy now, such an awesome gift.
I feel like there is no solution to the last one because OP and her family already failed both Carmen and Emma long before the party. It sounds from the way OP laid it out like no one ever addressed Emma's behaviour, while OP has known for some time that it was causing issues in the cousins' relationship. This should have been a conversation with Emma's parents LONG before this. As it is, there's a good chance Emma has no idea what she's done wrong and possibly didn't even know until now that her cousin didn't like her. If it was already established with everyone that Carmen didn't like playing the way Emma does then any rejection from the party specifically could have been mitigated at least a little and there would be some justice to it, but excluding one sister when they don't even know why is just plain cruel.
I agree! OP should have talked about this with Anna long ago and if Anna remained firm in her stance that Emma is doing nothing wrong, then OP should've made it clear that she would not expose her daughter to that anymore. That way, Carmen not inviting Emma wouldn't have come out of nowhere and OP would've exhausted other options before going straight to hurting a child's feelings.
Thank you for putting it so well! Both parents should be setting the cousins up for a better relationship! And hey, that sounds like a hard convo. But it probably would’ve been better than blowing everything up by inviting one cousin.
I agree that the issue should have been adressed earlier, but from the sister’s reaction I can see, why OP might not have wanted to do that. I disagree, that not inviting one sister is cruel. Carmen is at an age, where one should understand, that not everyone likes you. It probably isn’t the first time, Emma doesn’t want to spend time with her. And depending on the typ of bullying she is doing, she knows exactly, what she is doing. I had a classmate like that in elementary school. I don’t think Emma should be forced to invite Carmen or not invite the younger sister too. The second would not be fair to the younger sister, because she would be “punished” for someone else’s actions. And the first option could ruin Emma’s whole day.
I grew up having people I felt bullied by being forced to be invited to parties by my parents to avoid drama with family or even family friends. I do think it's odd to invite one cousin and not their sibling, but if it's for bullying, maybe someone should tell the kid. Either "Your sister gets to go and you don't because you were mean to your cousin." or yeah, maybe "You both don't get to go to the party because your cousin feels bullied by [whichever one]." The first does seem like a pretty big deal to a child, but so is bullying. And if the other has to lose out because her sister was being a little bully then maybe she won't let her sister bully her cousin anymore.
For the last story, I think there are times when it is fair to discipline other people’s children. If they are attending a party at your house there may be behaviors that you do not deem acceptable under your roof. It doesn’t matter if the parents allow their children to do that at home. You are allowed to say: no shoes in the house or no eating food in your bedrooms, etc. if parents don’t like your rules they can leave, but it doesn’t mean you can’t have boundaries
100% agree. If you are responsible for looking after a child (I assume the parents of all the kids at this party aren't going to be staying) you can't just let the kids run rampage just because their parents aren't there to tell them to stop
I agree and disagree with you. Setting boundaries and discipline are two different things. You can set boundaries for your home and if kids do not follow those rules, it's up for their parents to discipline them, not you. If the parents also are not following your rules or letting their kids break them, you should talk to the parents and set boundaries towards them. Not towards the kids.
@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto I have to disagree. If my niece or nephew is in my house under my care, assuming their parent isn't there, they are my responsibility, which includes decipline. If I set a boundry and they break it a warning might be in order the first time but time out or some sort of removal of a perk or privilege is not an overstep in my book. That is still discipline. A consequence for an action that they are aware is wrong or breaks a boundry you've set for them in the space they are in.
But this is a known problem that Emma has always gotten away with and is going to be very disruptive at a party. Plus, Emma's mom may be there the whole time if both girls go. It's not unusual for family members to hang out or help at birthday parties. And there's only so much you can do without making a really big scene with the parent right there. Either way, the host mom has a lot of added stress with Emma present and you've taken away a little girl's autonomy to decide who she wants at her party. And it wouldn't take much bad behavior from Emma to totally ruin it for her.
OP is NTD in the vacation story. She only mentioned that she wanted to eat healty and suddenly she has ruined the entire trip? She said that her sister could pick the restaurant and she would just get a salad, which is already a compromise. Even if her sister wanted to eat somewhere specifically (and heart attack in a bucket does not scream gourmet restaurant) she should have communicated that calmly. Maybe OP is okay with one or two cheat meals. She never got the chance to say.
Yea she even said ill find something healthy on the menus, that was "the comprise", the sister was dragging the mood down. Shaba is extra cautious of diet culture advice
Or god forbid you spend a little time apart on a vacation? Go to separate restaurants, or get takeout from two different places! The sister is acting super weird
My guess would be that the sister probably feels a bit guilty about eating a super unhealthy meal next to someone who's only having a salad. You know, the same way some people can't order a dessert if their companion isn't having one too? Obviously that's not technically the OPs problem, but I can sort of get how the sister might feel a bit disappointed if forgetting about calories is a big part of a holiday mood for her and OPs healthy eating kills some of the enjoyment for her.
@@lapattiWell, it would be terrible advice if given to *you*, since you hate eating alone. Not everyone finds eating alone to be terrible. Especially when you're already spending all day with someone, I'll happily take a quiet hour alone to eat.
I don’t know what the answer to the birthday one should be, but I do feel like if neither cousin had been invited it would punishing the well behaved sister for her older sister’s actions and that can breed resentment of a sibling. I wonder if Trixie is being punished like that in other situations for her sister’s actions. I would add, there are some kids that actually love rough housing. Maybe Emma just needs paired with kids that like it rough like her and she is taught that certain kids don’t and she needs to release her energy either with inanimate objects or likeminded kids.
I don't think it would be a punishment if neither of the cousins knew Carmen even considered inviting one of them. Anna saying if Emma can't go, neither can her sister, that is her being punished for something she didn't do because the invitation she already had was taken away from her.
@@blackk_rose_it’s still not letting trixie go, even if she doesn’t know about it. especially anna and trixie have shared friends who will be going, trixie WILL find out about the party and feel left out when the others are talking about it or say an inside joke about it or something.
in the US, especially the South, there are absolutely restaurants that have zero healthy options. everything is meat with dairy and starch and lard and whatnot. the "veggies" are creamed or fried or whatever. but they can do a couple of those for the sis and some for the op. or just have a few meals where they go different places. they don't have to spend every single second together.
Last OP needs to maintain to Carmen that she can enforce boundaries with bio family. This blowback from the extended family over the guest list has nothing to do with Carmen, and it's not great that OP is deflecting it that way. Rather, OP needs to show accountability to her sister that she didn't do her job as the adult navigating this invite situation (not having a conversation with Anna before invitations were sent out and so on). This was OP's blunder, and I hope it doesn't undercut the lesson for Carmen about boundaries.
Man.. i don't think I've ever disagreed with you so much Shaaba. This is why I love this series it really does make me look at a different perspective, it doesn't necessarily change my mind but i appreciate hearing your reasoning
For the last story, I wonder if anyone has even asked Emma if she would like to attend the party in the first place? She likes rough horseplay, I think that just being there would suck for her and she might cause a stink if forced to attend. If she does want to go, I can understand her mom being upset, but if she doesn't then there's no reason why she can't stay home and have her own friends over while Trixie goes to the party, or Anna and her hubby take Emma out to do things that she likes. This whole argument could have been avoided, but I feel as though Anna is approaching from a place of entitlement on her daughters behalf rather than advocating for her daughter, if this is what Emma would really like to do.
Great point! I know when I was 11 the last thing I wanted to do was go to a tea party with 8/9 year olds. They seemed like such little kids to me back then!
Exactly my thoughts. Did Emma even know there was a party and did she want to attend, knowing the theme and that (it would seem) it was a bunch of 8-9 year olds that she probably doesn't even know (besides her sister and cousin)?
Birthday party... I'd have said it was little kids, made 11yo feel grown up. My best friend is one of quads and growing up they always went to separate events and were quite glad not to be treated the same
My dad's side of the family has a family bible (heirloom?) that has been passed down from son to son, since like... the 1800's. What irks me about this is that it's specifically "son to son". Besides the very first person, who actually bought said bible, who was a woman (we know this because she wrote her name in the beginning pages), this tradition has been held - to the point that in recent history, the bible had been passed down a different branch of our family tree, until their last son (in an unbroken chain, I think he had daughters?). That son then took it upon himself to research our history and look though every single branch down, to find a currently unbroken chain of sons. Ours were the only one left. He posted the bible, with an explanation, to my grandpa, in my dad's youth. A few years back, when grandpa died, dad got it. That's when we found out that it's not just a bible, but also an archive of the previous generations. Each son, that has owned the bible, has their story written down, together with pictures (most likely done by their significant others, after they died) and the papers + photos have been put in between pages of the book. Anyway, when my dad inherited it, my sister and I started discussing who'd get it. You see, dad is the last son too. Anyway, ofc we both saw it as a matter of fact that one of us should get it, but dad might be even more irking and stick with tradition, aka not giving it to either of us. I think he mused about a museum? Idk, it was many years since we talked about it.
I mean, if you and your sister wanted to stick as close to tradition as possible, and you both have the intention to have kids, I would think that Dad (or eldest daughter in the event that he passes) would 'hold' the bible until you or your sister have a son. Or, in the event that both of you only have daughters, whichever granddaughter of Dad has a son. Like it's just kind of 'skipping' a generation due to a lack of male progeny.
I feel like for the last one, yes tell the aunt in advance and then have Trixie go to birthday party but then have the aunt go do something equally as fun with Emma so that way neither child feels left out
True n if the other daughter sought to be better, she could do so on any random Tuesday, but well intentions are not enough to prioritize an immediate invite
For the last story, I think Emma's mom needs to take responsibility for her kid's behaviour and than means explaining to a young child why they weren't invited to something. It's hard, but there is a compassionate way to explain to a child how their actions hurt someone else and that is the reason why that person doesn't want to see them right now. If they have other family gatherings, the kids will still need to see each other then. It's not like Carmen's dislike of Emma's bullying is going to dictate every family event - just this party! Let the kid have her birthday for herself, and other family events can be the learning opportunity about family dynamics and doing our best to be kind even around people who aren't very nice.
‘Betrothed’ means “promised in marriage.” It’s sometimes synonymous with an engagement, other times it happens when the parties are still children-like in the case of royalty throughout history. I think ‘bequeathed’ was the word you were looking for. 😉
The last one seems strange for me that this causes drama. Each cousin has different relationships with each other, why invite the ones you don't get along with? I could see if she invited all her cousins except the one, but the post didn't clarify if that was the case
I agree as well! The conflict in the comments and shaabas opinion on this confuses me. It's a birthday party not a family event so why should you need to invite people you don't want to be there?
I have 9 cousins and I don’t think I have ever been invited to any of their birthdays (granted there’s a few hundred miles and about 10 years between most of us) but I do think it’s odd to force people to get along to the point of having them at your birthday parties just because your parents get along/are related. I certainly didn’t invite my friend’s siblings to my parties, why is this any different?
That clarification would have been helpful, but there are certainly many small families out there. I personally have over 25 cousins, but my kids have no first cousins at the moment and probably won't for the foreseeable future, so in our case I would find it odd if their cousin invited only my youngest, and not my oldest daughter being that they would be their ONLY cousins on both sides of the family.
These were all pretty clear to me. 1: NTA 2: NTA 3: NTA 4: NTA Mum should have discussed the consequences of inviting one and not the other with her daughter initially and let her decide if she wanted one or both or neither, before sending out invitations.
Sure but that conversation should also be about the friends she did and didn’t invite. If the sisters were invited to another child’s party would Anna still push for them both to be invited. Family always seem entitled to be invited to birthday’s and events regardless how they treat other family members. If you don’t get invited question why that might be. If the birthday girl is choosing who she wants at the party then she should be encouraged to do that. Anna Doesn’t need to demand an invite for Emma, all was required is a RSVP yes or no. If Anna doesn’t want either to go because both aren’t invite it so be it. But to get other family to pressure Carmen’s mum to invite Emma as well shows the entitlement.
You and Anna could have solved this with some communication beforehand: Trixie goes to Carmen's party, while Emma goes out on a "special Mommy-daughter date" with Anna (restaurant, movie, pool, park, whatever). That way, both girls feel like they're doing something special and fun and no one's feelings get hurt. Maybe Anna could even use the outing with her daughter to bring up these behavior issues. As an adult, it's your responsibility to anticipate social issues BEFORE involving the children!
Regarding the last one: Too often with these AITA it's people who are so avoidant of conflict in the first place that they won't just be open with their family members about how they feel, then later on down the line they find themselves in drama. Had the OP never held their own child's boundaries and stopped Emma's behaviour?
I think the correct decision in the birthday party story is not to invite either cousin. Explain to Carmen that it would feel bad for Emma if her sister got invited and she didn't. It's a good chance to teach Carmen about empathy and considering other people's feelings. Its not fair, but it's also a good chance to learn that life isn't fair. She's getting a magical princess tea party, so i think the disappointment will be soon forgotten. We should give our kids a good life, but we shouldn't completely shield them from reality and the hard decisions that come with it.
I absolutely agree, though if Carmen would still want Emma to not be invited, I'd add a talk with Anna too after talking with Carmen about why she doesn't want Emma there. Just so that Anna can explain to Emma why she wasn't invited, to also make this a learning and growing opportunity for Emma to show her that kids won't want to hang out with her if she's behaving like a bully.
@@talasheart7889 I was thinking that they should just skip inviting Trixie at all. But your solution is good too. It's a hard situation and there isn't one right answer.
My granddaughter is the problem child. But, she also has Aspergers and ADHD. Some kids just need a little extra attention. Have their mother come and help.
Why everyone is so focused on the bully not feeling left out ? She's the one who caused herself not yo be invited because of her behavior. So why everybody else should feel bad so she doesn't ? Like Carmen not getting to have her cousin there zns Trixie missing the party just so the bully doesn't feel bad . I think this is actually exactly what should happen. She should see her sister getting invited and feel left out and she should be told thet it was because of her behavior so she can understand that her behavior has consequences.
💯 No need to punish 2 kids for the bad behavior of another. Bully’s mum should be more upset that her daughter is a bully and not that she wasn’t invited
OP probably should have warned Anna about Trixie getting an invitation but not Emma, but otherwise she was fine. - it sounds like Emma needs the feedback from somewhere. yes, it's going to hurt when she does, but at 11 she's both old enough to learn and young enough to fix it. - it's important for Carmen to learn she doesn't have to invite the whole [insert group here] even if one of them mistreats her (for most of us, it wouldn't even be a conversation if it was her class at school) - we don't actually know how Emma would've felt. does she love Carmen dearly, and wish Carmen liked her more? or does she see Carmen as an annoying little kid? (Carmen & Trixie are closer in age, and sometimes that really matters to kids). I was invited to at least 2 of my younger cousin's birthday parties that my brother & older cousin didn't go to. I'm pretty sure they weren't invited to either. neither man has expressed any jealousy over this at the time or afterwards (we're all adults now and I'm 98% sure they'd react with confusion if I asked at this point). - while a lot of people do see their extended family (or just households within it) as one unit, it's not always the best practise. it sets up a dynamic where, at best, you can only see [relative you really get on with] as much as you can tolerate seeing [this annoying fucker], essentially putting a cap on how close you can be to them. at worst, it means that cutting off an abuser automatically means losing your entire extended family. (also, and I recognise it's probably a non-issue for OP right now, it's logistically more complicated and can torpedo your ability to do extended family things if, say, the default host dies and no one else has space/time to host everyone at once)
birthday party: i definitely think that there should have been conversations before sending out the invites. at least one between the parents and at least one with the bully child. i see how theres no avoiding this drama without hurting at least one of the children, unless what you described as ideal happened and everyone got along in the end. its definitely a learning opportunity for both the bully kid and her parents and grandparents bc at the end of the day, kids arent born as misbehaving bullies and the whole family needs to learn that letting such behaviour go on is not going to fly. sooner or later they need to face this problem and do something about it. NTA should have handled it better though.
for the last one - when i was younger my parents would split up my party into two days, one for my friends and the other for family, and i think this situation could be resolved by doing this. trixie could still be invited to the friends party as well as the family party, and emma may not feel as left out if she went to the family one instead
#4 - NTA Take family out of it for a second and think about this scenario: There is 2 siblings in a class one of them is a bully, the second sibling is really nice. If another child in their class decided only to invite the nice sibling to their birthday and not the bully would the parents be in the wrong for allowing that? If you think they would be wrong than fair enough. If you don't think the parents would be wrong but you do think the parents in #4 were wrong then why? Is it just because you think they should have tried to keep the peace? Other things to consider: - OP is not responsible for her sister decision to coddle Emma and make her think the world revolves around her. - being family doesn't give you more power to control someone's parenting. They may be more willing to listen but they can still choose to ignore you. - Not everything has to be fair, this would be a good opportunity for Emma to learn that. - This is a good opportunity for Emma to learn that if you treat people poorly they wont want you around.
On The last story I think something was overlooked in that she could only invite nine of her friends, which means the tables that her dad made are only two tables of five. This wasn't a regular backyard party where there was plenty of room for everybody to move and and play, this required specific seating. And it's very easy to say we didn't think that this was Emma's kind of a fun time. Also if she invited the other cousin, that meant she had to leave one of her close friends out. It's her birthday party and if she could only invite nine people, she had to be selected and why would she invite a cousin that isn't the tea party type?
@@danitini14 dad made tables and this was a sit-down event with specific dishes. Well they may not have specifically mentioned that she was only allowed to invite nine other people, it makes the most sense when it's dishwasher/place setting specific.
"Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway." Shannon L. Alder
For the birthday situation, I was in a similar situation once but I was Emma. My younger sibling Dan is 3 years younger than me, so they were a freshman when I was a senior in high school. Dan became close friends with one of my friends, Rachel, and when everyone was planning graduation parties, Rachel invited all our mutual friends and Dan but not me (I invited Rachel to my own graduation party). I’ll be honest, it hurt, but I accepted that it was her decision to make. The kinda funny part was I ended up having to give Dan a ride to the party cuz my parents couldn’t, and when I dropped Dan off our mutual friends were confused like “aren’t you staying?” Cuz I didn’t tell anyone she didn’t invited me. I could have stayed but decided to respect Rachel’s wishes, said I was busy, and left. It’s hard feeling excluded, but it’s better to accept when people let you know they’re done with you. I’m not friends with Rachel anymore that that’s okay. Idk, since the children in this story are young and they’re all cousins it’s different, but forcing someone to invite someone they didn’t want to for any reason is never okay. You just have to let it go.
You're a better person than me. I would have told everyone I wasn't invited. Lol. My first thought was that perhaps Rachel assumed you would be coming and didn't need a specific invite, but if Dan got a specific invite, then that doesn't make sense. But yeah, I would have told everyone, "I'm as confused as you, but I wasn't invited, so... have fun, guys!" Then drive off, lol.
Last story: if the oldest sister was 5 or even 7, I could see how she would struggle to understand the consequences of her actions, seeing how she's apparently the "precious can do no wrong" kid. But she is 11. Granted, her mom and grand ma are not helping, but she should be able to understand that being a bully comes with people not really liking you and wanting to have you around. I do think OP could have mentioned it beforehand hand so the mom could have a conversation with her oldest, but it's totally fair for OP's daughter to want to invite the nice, fair and fun to be around cousin, and not the one who will bully her and her friends.
Okay, its all good if people with more experience with children disagree with me but I think its MADNESS that people are so adamant that a child is expected to invite someone they are bullied by to their party. I wouldn't want that for my kid and if my kid wasn't invited because they were a bully I wouldn't want them to go and ruin this party. It seems like a great learning moment and if I thought they did nothing wrong then we could go do something else or plan an outing with their friends. Idk. One time my Mom had to explain how my actions were perceived as bullying to one of my neighbors and I didn't even realize it was coming off that way and really helped me understand some empathy.
6:01 "I just think fair is fair." I've learned in my 20 years on this planet that life isn't fair and if you think it is, you're going to have a hard time
For the last story: yes, there's a lot of room to make better parenting decisions in the future, it could have been a learning experience, the parents should have communicated better etc. BUT let's not forget the birthday itself is not a learning experience or whatever, it's a child's birthday, in her own home, and it should be a safe space for her. The adults need to work things out on their own, it's not the child's responsibility to spend her birthday anxious about what her cousin might or might not do to give the parents a chance to discipline her. Any other moment but the party can be a great teaching moment.
Last one: talk it through with Carmen. Let her know the repercussions the decision has and ask if she wants to stick with it. If she lets Emma come, then OP should either have Anna come to watch her kid (and discipline if needed) and/or have a talk with Emma and Anna beforehand about what's going on and what behavior is acceptable. If Carmen's firm about not wanting Emma there, OP and Anna still need to have a conversation because it sounds like OP has been bottling up her frustration with Anna and Emma for a while now. As frustrating as it is to deal with spoiled kids, kids are a product of their upbringing. OP also knew there was a problem between the kids. If she doesn't clearly communicate with her sister, it's going to not only damage their relationship, but also set an awful standard for her own daughter. She needs to have a conversation, not just avoid her problems and try to win the argument with the "best" one-liner. PS: I don't mean to say cutting someone off is ignoring your problems. It's just that OP and Anna are pushing their problems with each other under the rug, and it feels like they're fighting passive aggressively through their kids
Last story I think we have to think about which kid gets hurt in each scenario. Inviting both hurts birthday girl, not inviting both hurts nice cousin, and inviting nice cousin hurts mean cousin. If those are the options (say they couldn't come up with any alternative ways to celebrate) then it makes the most sense to go with the option that hurts the mean cousin. If you bully your cousin then you should have to face the consequences of that. Birthday girl and nice cousin did nothing wrong so they should have a chance to celebrate together.
Last one: Carmen gets to choose whether both or neither is invited. Life lesson is sometimes people we like come “packaged” with other people we don’t and we have to learn to get along or have a little distance sometimes. I’d make sure Carmen knew I’d back her either way and that if Emma bullied her she could ask for help. Choices have consequences.
Last story: NTA with a little ESH. First, a parents priority is to keep your child feeling happy and safe on her birthday (and everything else). Second, parenting your niece is primarily the parents responsibility. The village is there to support the parent in that, not to take over. OP could have invited both and set firm rules. Your house, your rules. But that would probably cause even more drama at the party, wen Emma would break the rules (if she did). Third, Emma's parents also could make something fun with her that day, so she wouldn't feel alone that day. So the second and thirt point ate not on OPs shoulders at all. Would it be the right thing to talk to ops sister in advance, sure. But it would be unfair to only put it on OPs shoulders to take up Emmas behavioral issues. That's on the parents. So I'm also unsure whether it would have given any result or whether the sister just would have continued to ignore the issue. But yes it would have been good to take up the topic in advance. Therefore the tiny ESH. The question is also how Emma feels about Carmen. Would Emma want to see Carmen? I certainly had cousins I didn't have much of a connection with until we all were grow up.
The heirloom concept is very cute, but I imagine that if I were to have kids and start something like that for future generations, would be more of a tradition to make some kind of necklace or something for when a child is born to be presented on their 18th birthday or something like that... and not one single item so people can go on free-4-alls over it. haha Would be kind of magical too, to have someone hold on to the ones from the deseased or something like that, a way to remember by. ♥
For the last story, there is no real right answer. There will drama no matter what. Either Carmen's party has the potential of being disrupted by Emma as well as Carmen having to be forced to interact with someone she doesn't like nor want there - or - there's drama among the adults because OP stands by her daughter's guest list and what seems like Anna throwing a fit because both girls couldn't go. Side note: does Emma even like Carmen enough to want to go? Even if she did, which I don't think is likely, would she be into a princess fairy tea party? As a kid, if I was invited somewhere by someone I was friends with but didn't have an interest in the activity, I wouldn't want to go. The few times I was forced to go, I was miserable and a major grumpy pants. Anyway, with that being said, I think OP should back her daughter's wishes and not have Emma come mainly because it's Carmen's party. It's her day. She should be able to say who comes or who doesn't. Making sure she has fun is what's important. Else what she's being taught is that what other people want matters more than her and that catering to Karens is more important than having friends around you at your special event. What would have happened if Carmen wanted to go to an amusement park or the movies or something but could only invite one other person and that person was Trixie? Would Anna then say Trixie couldn't go because Emma wasn't invited too? Or what if this was a classmate of Trixie's and Emma wasn't invited because the classmate didn't know Emma? Just because they're family - sister's in this case - doesn't mean that they both have to do the exact same things all the time. I've 2 older sisters, one only a couple years older like Emma is to Trixie, and when I either forced myself into the things they did with their friends or was forced to be involved by our mom, no one was happy. They either made me feel unwanted or they couldn't have as much fun because there was this kid tagging along they had to keep an eye on. Something that needs to be made clear is that Carmen isn't being mean spirited and not inviting Emma out of spite or being a bully. Emma isn't being left out for no reason. From what is said, Emma is not Carmen's friend and Emma's a bit of a brat to Carmen, so why should people force Emma to be where she isn't wanted. What if Emma is allowed to go and Carmen says something like "I didn't want you here, but your mom forced me so Trixie could come" or if Carmen and her other friends purposely ignore or leave Emma out in other ways? Emma will probably act out and now she's just being set up to fail. Or she may feel resentment towards Trixie for not having a good time and take it out on her sister. Everyone needs to learn at some point that sometimes people wont want you around and you shouldn't force yourself - or be forced by others - to be involved in things or be around those who don't want you there. And that's ok. It's ok to not be invited to every single family member's birthday party. It's okay to only invite certain people and not others. It's ok if certain people don't like you or you don't like certain people in turn. What's important is that you find people who do want you around and who do like you. If all three kids learn this early on, it will cause sooooo much less drama later on.
For the last one, I think OP should've just done two separate parties - one where the whole family is invited and another party only for the friends where neither cousin is invited (isn't that normal to do that anyway?). It can get tricky if the daughter is very close to her cousin and they're friends, but I'd explain that situation in a kid friendly way and include her in the decision making process by explaining the consequences - with guidance, of course. I do think it would be different if one cousin is part of the same friend group that the daughter wants to invite and the other cousin is not. In that case, I do think it's okay to only invite one (but tell the mother beforehand, so she's prepared) because it's perfectly normal to not be invited to a party of someone in your sibling's friend group - even though with cousins, it's of course a little different because everyone knows each other and you are family. I would definitely have a chat with the sister too though. If your kid hates being around their cousin, I do think you should discuss that as parents and find a way around that. Because they will see each other at family gatherings and it makes me sad to think that she dreads those because her cousin is making her feel miserable and she just has to deal with that.
So, re: the birthday party: ............ I'm going to go into dangerous territory here. I think neither cousin coming to the party IS a good learning/teaching opportunity for Carmen. She is old enough to start learning about family dynamics. (I'm one of those especially dangerous people that won't talk down to a person just because they're younger.) She won't 'get' it all, certainly, and much of that discussion should be framed for her experience set. But the takeaway should be that she's allowed to feel the way she does about her cousins. And that inviting one but not the other is also her right for her birthday party. That she should feel safe and secure at parties that are hers (either thrown by, or where she's GOH) and she should never back down from inviting the people she wants to be there. But that invites will have consequences. Don't smear the family, don't call the nasty cousin something terrible, and make sure she understands that even the bully cousin is allowed to feel however she feels. And don't promote/allow Carmen to get especially vicious or bitchy about it. Just a calm discussion, possibly a couple, about the dynamics in her level of experience. Every disappointment can be a great way to teach and learn. You just have to be ready for them.
The first OP NEVER said that the ex would give money to stepdaughter. She said that she would talk/ask him about it if/when they the split the daughters Trust fund. 4:51
For the last one YTA. It was inevitable that this would cause problems. OP should have encouraged her daughter to think about the impact of her choice on others' feelings and then suggested that she either invite both cousins or neither rather than letting it be ok to exclude an individual. If daughter was then struggling to decide, then OP could speak to her sister about the dilemma. If both attend then it's ok for OP to discipline her niece as appropriate at the party. Also agree with the suggestions about doing something nice with the cousins seperate from the party. It's not fair to exclude one child - even if they do behave unkindly, the answer is to show a better way of behaving and deal with her behaviour not just cut her out, which will teach her that she is the problem rather than her behaviour.
The birthday party: I don't know much about the family dynamics bit, but I do know that my mom invited my actual bully, who was mean and tortured the hell out of me, to a big birthday party that I didn't even want to have one year in elementary school. It made my birthday miserable, even though no overt bullying happened at my party, because I was so anxious and afraid of doing something that was going to get me bullied later at school where there would be no one to protect me. (Which did happen, I was the "weird kid" and this one girl just really loved to make me miserable.) I agree about having a conversation with the parent since it's a family thing, but like... She should not have to have someone who is mean to her at her party. Absolutely not.
I too had to have my bullies at my birthday parties even if they were older siblings of someone in my class/year group. I dreaded every single party and I had so much anxiety around them because of that. Even now I hate my birthday and even the thought of a small party (where I control the invites) makes me squirm. From the post it seems as though OP had tried again and again to address Emma’s behaviour with her parent/s and grandparents/other family and knows exactly how they (haven’t) handled it before - when you know nothing is going to change and her parents aren’t going to step up or put their foot down and address her behaviour, why potentially risk inviting that type of situation to a party that is supposed to be a magical wonderful perfect day all about the birthday girl where there’s a very real risk of her being bullied and hurt and not a single adult, except for an already stressed out mom who is in charge of everything else on the day, is going to not do anything about it. Why put your kid in that situation when it’s their special day and they deserve to have just a happy, good day. Yeah it might cause drama but maybe this is the sign that will make Emma’s family finally stand up and listen so they’ll address the problem before the next party invite.
For the last one she should have told her daughter that it’s not nice to only invite one cousin and that if she doesn’t want the bully, understandably, that she sadly cannot have the cousin she does like
The last story sounds horrible. O p's daughter has a cousin who bullies her and most of the adults in her family are accomplices and even possibly participating and said bulliing. Now the co-conspirators to the bullying are telling the only safe adult that she is promoting bullying you for teaching her daughter how to protect yourself against a bully. And to make matters worse, her cousin.That isn't a poet is being bullied for her failure to bully and being told that it is OP's daughter that is the cause of it.
With this vacation scenario, if the sister said that I paid for this vacation so we should do what I want. I would say I don’t want your vacation. You don’t pay for something and expect it to be just how you want it that’s not how gifts work. 100% there should be compromise, but I would absolutely hate that and would be put off big time.
Oh, you totally can have more family heirlooms. One person, you give the ring from your great-grandmother, another you give the necklace your spouse gave you on your wedding day... but it works better if you don't focus so much on "the oldest gets..." and more on "because I know you love this..." or "because we are so close..." or "Because you remind me so much of Grandma..." let the meaning be a personal one rather than a birth order one, and there won't be so much mathing based on comparison of generations between new and old heirlooms. Also, before I knew I wouldn't ever have kids, I was completely planning on taking my engagement ring and making a pendant or ring with each of the stones for one of our children if we had three children, or if we had two children making a pair of earrings with the two emeralds and putting some other stones around the garnet in the setting, or if we had four children then three would get jewelry made with one of the stones and the other would get their choice of stones in the setting... so even if you don't have a lot of fine items to pass down, you can usually find some way to include everyone.
Also, since she had her own engagement diamond and two from her aunts, my grandmother said, to my mother and my two aunts (my mother's sister and sister-in-law), "We have three diamond rings in our family. I want each of you to have one. Here they are. [insert brief provenance on each]. Do any of you have a preference?" Since the three of them had different tastes in jewelry, there wasn't any argument about who got which one, and no one was jealous that they didn't get "The ring Dad gave Mom," because they each got the one they wanted.
I feel having rules such as oldest etc. works because it would feel less of a slight to others as it's based on nature and not personal. Like a mother giving her daughter a necklace because she felt she deserved it more or felt more connection to her would upset her other daughters and make them feel less and they'd accuse the mom of playing favorites. But a mom giving her daughter an heirloom because she's the oldest won't make her other daughters feel less or hurt. At worst, they'd be a little annoyed that they lost the birth order lottery but they can't really accuse the mother of the favourites or blame anyone for them not being the oldest.
For the last one - if I was 9, and somebody forced me to invite a girl who I don't like and who is mean to me I wouldn't want the party. Cancel it, I don't care. The problem here is OP left it all to the last minute. It should have been discussed weeks earlier, one on one with OP's sister, to give her a chance to prepare Emma and explain to her that because of her behaviour she's going to sit this one out. And try to correct the course from then on.
In the last story, there was a lot of communication missing. First, if the two cousins are having a difficult relationship, that is something that should be addressed without the Birthday party being involved. With the Birthday, OP had two options that I see. I would probably have gone with option A, which is to communicate with her daughter. Tell her that she is not obligated to invite anyone she doesn't want to be at her party, but if she doesn't want to invite one cousin, she shouldn't invite the other. Option B, OP should have gone to her sister and said that the older daughter wasn't going to be invited to the birthday party due to the relationship she has with the birthday girl. Then OP should have asked her sister which she preferred, that neither daughter be invited or just the younger one. Giving her sister the choice before the invites go out as to which situation she wants to explain to her children. Communication!
There are so many comments, but I had to weigh in on the last one. Yes, a conversation should have been had with Emma, but it sounds like maybe a conversation HAS been had with Emma, and she isn’t changing. It sucks, but sometimes we have to face the consequences of our actions, even as children. If she’s mean, she won’t be invited. If she really wants to help, mom will take this opportunity to explain what’s going on, let Emma feel her feelings of sadness or frustration, and then brainstorm (or even practice!) how she can do better next time.
for the last story: the fact that it’s gotten to the point where Emma is literally being excluded from family events because her mother is unable to discipline her properly is entirely on the mother. she should be ashamed that she has let the situation get this far and realize how this is affecting her daughters social life and everyone else around her as for the best course of action, it’s tricky. i think pitting sisters against each other by letting trixie go without emma is not a good choice since the responsibility of her not being invited in the first place is entirely on the mother. it might be best not to let either go but take it as a learning moment to correct emma’s behavior got really heated for this one hjshsj
I agree with your opinion on the last one: OP should've gotten Anna involved and tried to find a solution together, like how you suggested that Anna could have explained to Emma that she's not invited this time because of her behavior, and either left it at that for now or given her an opportunity to show better behavior towards Carmen.
#4 story: We had a rule in school, if you invite more then 2 girls or boys, in invite the whole group of girls or boys. That way no one is left out, but you can still invite a best friend if you choose to keep it small. Most kids invited all, a few invited the whole class boys and girls together, the families who couldn't afford that, never invited anyone, my family is an example of that, but i also had friends in other classes and on other schools and so i could invite a few people that werent in my class anyways. (In Denmark you follow the same class from 0-9th grade so everyone knows everyone always) Its not a perfect rule, but it worked well and allows for no one to be left out.. In this scenario i would have told my kid, beforehand its either both of them or none of them, though luck, but you have to choose.
With the heirloom thing reminded me of something that was passed down to me and my cousins. My grandmother had a pearl necklace that all her daughters wore on their wedding day. A couple of my older cousins also wore the necklace as their "something old" while my grandmother was still living. After she passed, one of my aunts took the necklace and made it into a collection of bracelets so we all had a portion of it as a memento. And then the tradition of wearing Grandma's pearls on our wedding day could continue.
On the last one, I need more information. Its perfectly normal to invite one sibling to a party and not another if the other isn't your friend. There is no information in the post about the relationship between Trixie and Carmen. If Carmen and Trixie have play dates that don't include Emma then it makes sense to me that Trixie would be invited and Emma wouldn't.
I had cousins I didn't like and when I was a kid the rule was always that cousins came in sibling sets. You could not invite one and not the other but you could opt out of a set altogether. It's not a perfect solution but it was a compromise that hurt the fewest children's feelings. I never felt it was unfair and I think it made the best of a difficult situation
My logic for the heirloom is that one of the granddaughters is blood the other is not and most people want a heirloom to remain in the bloodline. But ahe also would nta if she gave the step granddaughter the earring depending on the situation.
About the 2nd one, my step grandpa is my step grandpa cuz he married my grandma, so I see him every time I see my grandma, and if he gave something to his bio grandkids instead of me I’d be like “alright fair enough makes sense” like???? Girl what???
Last one is, start a dialouge with chikd, double check the reasin, talk sister about it. "We are apprehensive about inviting older cousin bc daughter doesnt want to invite her, but if you help manage your daughter no one has to be left out. Then double check with b day girl, have a similar combo with cousin and then follow through. The problem isnt the bday party, the problem is that there is a long overdue convo about how oldest treats OP's kid and how if they want then to have a good relationship where they have activities together, then we need to nurture it, not force it.
Betrothed = someone you intend to marry. Shaaba was thinking of the word bequeathed, which is to leave (property) to a person or other beneficiary by a will.
When your child is going to invite one sibling and not the other, either relative or friend, you tell the parents in advance so they can "soften the blow" or outright decline the invitation before the child is invited and then be disappointed not to go. To "soften the blow" they can downplay the party to the"uninvited" child and plan a great day out for them, maybe a playdate with their own friends. OP is definitely resentful towards the sister, parents and niece and REALLY went about this the wrong way. Now the kids are going to resent each other one way or another 🤷♀️🤦♀️
Last one: I suggest OP tell Carmen that she can either invite both cousins or neither of them and let her decide as it is her party. That could teach her that sometimes you have to make sacrifices, meaning having Emma there or not being able to have Trixie there. Unfortunately, Carmen and Trixie will be miserable either way but that's the parent's + grandparent's fault for not being able to communicate and encouraging bad behaviour. I think OP talking to Emma about her behaviour before the party would cause drama as well. OP is not Emma's parent and it's a very delicate topic to handle, meaning basically saying to the child 'You're a bully', and nobody asked for OP's opinion. I think this would cause drama no matter what. Even if OP talked to Anna about Emma being a bully. People don't like to be told they are doing something wrong, especially being a parent who makes the child become a bully. I agree that a conversation beforehand would have been better but it would have been drama nonetheless. You just can't win sometimes.
For the last story, I feel there is no winning because it would also be very unfair for the younger sister to never be invited because her older sister is being a bully and doesn’t get invited.
The correct thing is: teach the bully that being a bad person is wrong, while not depriving the innocent younger sister of her friendship. Bullies will only understand that when their actions start to have consequences, being left alone feels way worse than your entire family not going anyways, she needs to feel down to understand that she needs to get better.
Anyone else pick up on the fact that since Jamie and Shaaba have started 1800 Drama pod that shaaba has now started saying not the drama instead of not the a hole, its so interesting how the brain builds speech habits 🤣😁
Story 1 - NTD they made an unreasonable request, you made a compromise. They have no control over what your ex and his family does for your child under their care, and you didn’t promise that they would help their kid, you asked for their agreement in exchange for talking to your ex’s family. If they had said yes, you could have explained the situation to your ex and he could have assisted OR you could have simply told them no after a day.
For the last one op should have told the mom only one girl was invited, but I think it’s okay to stand her ground on only one come. If I were little and someone came to my bday party I’d want to cancel the whole thing. (I was a little dramatic like that) but it would have ruined my bday party if I was made to keep it going
I feel like if she knows Carmen doesn't like Emma because she's mean, OP can ask "how about we let your cousin come as long as she promises to be nice and keeps her promise? And if she starts being mean, you can ask us to make her leave." Then OP can go to her sister and let her know the deal. Ask her to talk to Emma and warn her that if she's mean to the other kids, she'll have to leave the party (presumably by being kept inside instead with one of the parents). In this way, Carmen learns that her mother will respect her boundaries and keep her safe, but also how to deal with mean people in a way that might change them: let them know they're being mean, give them a chance to be better, and exclude them if they refuse to change. Neither Trixie nor Emma (if she behaves) will have to feel excluded, and hopefully Emma will learn to be nicer because being mean has negative consequences.
Honestly with the vacation one I think a good solution would be to just not always eat together but OP goes to a restaurant that they want and the sis goes to one she would like and you meet up again afterwards etc . Like you can do main meals together etc but when you’re somewhere where there’s a restaurant sis wants to go to OP doesn’t want then they find something else for themselves to eat for that specific meal etc .
NTA for the first three. The rhetorical argument didn't work in the first one, but it's not an unreasonable thing to point out. ESH (at least the adults) for the last one. They needed to discuss it before the invites went out, probably long before that. The daughter should be able to decide who she invites but I don't think it's unreasonable for the aunt to think the cousins attending should be an all or nothing thing. Maybe that ultimately means neither can attend, maybe a compromise can be reached where Emma is allowed to attend with close supervision so that the birthday girl feels comfortable, but the kids shouldn't be in the middle of it any more than necessary.
With the second one, I think it’s actually really simple. She wants to give the heirloom to her first grandchild. The stepchild joined the family at 14, so she’s only been OP’s granddaughter for 4 years. If she joined the family as a baby, before another child was born, that would be different, but as she came to family later, she is the eldest, but not the first grandchild, thus excluding her from that particular gift. That said, no one is owed anything, so OP should have been able to give the heirloom to whoever regardless without being criticised for it.
For the birthday party one, if I was OP, I think I'd actually start with a conversation with my daughter. I'd show that I totally understand where she's coming from and hear what she's saying. Then I'd find a way to ask if it was more important to her right now to 1) have the younger cousin there or 2) not have the older cousin there. From there, we'd invite either both or neither (and potentially plan a family birthday dinner or something) Then, I'd have a parallel conversation with my sister (maybe with the details of the party, maybe more generic) about the bullying, but likely with the spin of "let's help our kids get along" rather than opening up the dialog by putting the blame on Emma (whether or not it's warranted) to keep her from immediately going on the defensive. Then we can be working on repairing that relationship in the background, and maybe the answer would be different next year. ___ I was often excluded from things as a kid that my sibling was invited to, and even if it wasn't out of malice/had a good reason behind it, it really made me feel alienated by my extended family. I don't think siblings always have to be a package deal, but especially when they're younger and potentially have the same/similar interests, they should be as much as possible. And if they can't, finding an equal activity for the other one can help ease the negative feelings. (I'm not yet a parent myself, so maybe my opinions will change with experience)
thank you so much for covering the heirloom story. it reminded me that i was gifted something by my mother when i graduated (I was the first in my direct family) that i can pass down to my oldest child for her's next month and create an heirloom. i may also get something for my son's in a few years so they each have something to pass on.
The healthy food story: they are most likely going to eat in a restaurant more than once, each should choose equal number of restaurats, or they can split for lunch. When traveling in a group, people have different food preferences, you do not base the choices only on one person
I've never felt like commenting about one of these before but that last one I have some thoughts. Note that I'm not a parent, and I might be *highly* overestimating the maturity a small child could possibly possess. But I think that there's nothing wrong with only inviting Trixie if that's who Carmen wants there. And the mature thing on Emma's end (or Anna's end even) would be to accept that sometimes people just don't want you places and get over it. Like even when I was a kid I feel like if I was told my sibling was invited and I was not for any number of reasons I'd have been completely understanding and fine with it. Nobody is owed an invitation to anything. Trixie is invited, Emma is not. I don't think you're ever really obligated to invite anyone to anything, and should instead just teach people to accept it if they're not invited to something. I'm sorry if I'm like hugely missing some social cues or something but I really don't agree with the idea that they should like try to make it even or make it so Emma doesn't feel excluded. Children or not, family or not. You're not invited, you're not invited. I don't think it makes much difference if she's a bully or not. She's not invited, teach her how to be okay with that. 🤷 If she would like to be invited next year she can aim to improve things with Carmen between now and then.
Oof the bday party one is rough. Our rule when i was little was that if you invite one sibling you have to invite the other so as not to hurt the other one's feelings or you invite neither and you walk the kid through the options. But also my mom was the aunt that made us peacekeep between my cousins who hated each other lately bc their moms hated each other
As someone who was forced to visit with a cousin every holiday who bullied and manipulated me - mainly because we were close to the same age (she's two years older? Or is it just a year?), I am on OP and her daughter's side in that birthday party story. I also had to spend all my holidays with that bully cousin because she was an only child with a single mom, so my parents felt the need to be good parental figures in her life (without actually being in her life in that way at all - they barely ever interacted with her - they just made themselves feel like they were doing something good by forcing me spend my school breaks with her and never considering or even asking me what I wanted) - it was awful. (I mean, that same cousin was separated from her mom by the courts when she was 15 because she would beat up my aunt, who was disabled - she had epilepsy and had had a couple strokes, so walked with a bit of difficulty, had a deformed/frozen hand, and slurred her speech; my cousin was ashamed of her and would take out her rage on her mom until my aunt finally called the police on her and she was forced to go live with relatives - until she kept running away and my aunt finally relented and had her come back home anyway, despite the restraining order. So you know, yeah, she was troubled, but she was a violent, mean bully all the same.) And as adults, after I had lived in the US for a good chunk of time and returned to Canada, I thought perhaps she had moved on from being like that, since she was working steady jobs, had gotten married to her long-time boyfriend, and had had kids (I'll give her credit for being a really good mom - she absolutely adores her boys in a way she's never loved anyone else). She was also taking care of her mom right up until she had to go into a care home after a bad accident in her 50s, and aside from slight hints of resentment at times at having to do so, she seemed to really be doing a diligent job of taking care of her (with extended family's financial help, I later learned - wealthier relatives used a trust fund to finance the care home for my aunt). But no, it took a few years for it to come out, but my cousin revealed herself to still be exactly the same in the end. After I simply turned down an invitation to visit once because we live over 2 hours apart and I didn't have a car at the time, she BLEW UP, called me all sorts of vile names, and completely cut me off (I should add: this was AFTER a time when she and her husband had offered to drive me and my now-ex home from another cousin's wedding in Ottawa, a 6-hour drive - and then ABANDONED US IN OTTAWA when they learned we weren't going to my parents' house (nearer to them), but to Toronto instead (they didn't want to leave the highway and/or drive in the city on the way home even though it was still on the way). We had flown to Ottawa for the wedding, so didn't have a car, and had to scramble during the weekend of the wedding and its craziness, and luckily another cousin was hitching a ride with a friend who happened to be in Ottawa and driving back to Toronto and had 2 extra seats - though that "friend" charged US for gas and still refused to drop us off at the place we were staying, so we had to lug huge suitcases on public transit for another 45 minutes to get there, despite having paid for the full tank of gas... ANYWAY, my bully cousin brought alllll that up in her rant, insisting the only reason I was refusing her invite was because they'd left me in Ottawa and it was really bitchy and petty of ME somehow to be holding that grudge, even though I'd never mentioned ANYTHING about it - this was SEVERAL years later - when, actually, my saying no was more because, again, I didn't have a car to get to her, AND she'd constantly flake on me if I *did* try to make plans, so I'd given up on her; the invite itself also felt icky because they were suddenly keen on connecting when they NEVER had been before after they found out I was working for Star Trek, which her (now ex-)husband is a big fan of...). When my aunt died a few years back, this bully cousin made it well known to the entire extended family I wasn't welcome at the funeral too (I hadn't been intending to go anyway - I didn't want to cause drama, and found a different way to honour my aunt). All this to say - I find myself relieved OP didn't force her daughter to invite her bully cousin, even if inviting said bully's sister made things complicated. It really can't be that OP's sister has no clue how her daughter behaves, and forcing OP's daughter to invite her regardless is just cruel and reinforcing that the bully can keep behaving the way that she is. OP's daughter is NOT being mean by leaving her out of her party - she is inviting the people she actually wants to be there, and I wish I had had permission to do the same as a child; I still find it hard to do that. So I truly think OP and her daughter were NTA, and the bully cousin (and OP's sister) will just need to deal with and get used to her daughter being excluded if she's a bully, since that will mean NO ONE will like her or want her around.
I don't think the first OP missed the point. I think she was trying to point out the double standards that Linda has for their daughter and OP's son. Linda is requesting that her daughter must be treated equally to the step brother but Linda's family herself doesn't want to provide the same privileges to OP's son.
Agreed. OP was highlighting the ludicrousness of their request.
She may have just expressed herself badly. I feel like there was supposed to be an "aha" moment where she pointed out the double standard to Linda, but that never happened. And then we're sort of left wondering if she actually thought her son should get the money.
Yes, that's how I read it. She was trying to prove a point. I don't think she ever genuinely thought they'd accept. But they were so deep in their hypocrisy that they did not.
Very much agreed
I also think that OP didn’t really expect or want anything from Linda’s family, but was a comment to make them see that their logic made no sense. But also following Linda’s family’s logic OP does have a correct point as in both cases it is the family of the child’s other parent - the family of OP’s ex and the family of the new partner’s ex.
And if Linda’s family have set up a trust fund for the daughter it also doesn’t seem like it’s a matter of one family or child having a lot and the other child having nothing.
I would never presume to be owed an heirloom after 4 years in a family over somebody who's been in it for 17 years. To be fair, there's no indication of the step-granddaughter herself demanding the heirloom.
I think I'm a bit judgy of the whole process and tradition because to me it sounds extremely old-fashioned and bound to create negative feelings of entitlement and resentment even in uncomplicated situations. That aside, it's the same type of succession principles that we see in the royal family. Like, if Camilla had a son (does she? I don't care enough to look it up) who's older than Prince William, that son wouldn't suddenly become first in line to the throne through his mother's marriage. So the answer is as clear in this aita post as it would be for royal succession.
This may sound a bit pretentious, but the only objects I care about are the ones that are strongly evocative of the connection I shared with another. For example, the only thing I wanted to inherit from my gran was an old baking tray. It wasn't valuable, it wasn't attractive, but in it's flaking enamel there were all the stories she told me as we made scones on a saturday morning.
I'd be horrified if I inherited some object I viewed as meaningless that carried strong emotional significance to someone else
Imo, just start a new heirloom. Really not that hard. If you have enough money, then start a brand new heirloom with the newest addition.
When Jenny turned 18, her (step-)mother, OP's daughter, should have given her heirloom necklace to Jenny. OP's daughter is the one not following this silly tradition.
The first OP wasn't missing any point. I think it's entirely fair to say "if you want me to advocate for this, you have to do the same." She wasn't saying she would force her ex to give the step daughter anything, or even that she had a say. Only that she would ask, IF they agreed to do the same for her son. I think that's a fair argument. The mpMIL is the butthole for putting her in that position in the first place.
I completely agree!!
Which MIL are you referring to? If you're referring to her ex husband's mother, she has every right to provide for her grandson and isn't obliged to give the same to her ex DIL's stepson. And nor is she onliged to not provide for her grandson because he has a new stepsister that's of no direct relation to her.
@Tasha9315 The one in the first story, like I said.
For the last one I think its ok to invite the nice sister and not a jerky one. It says emma is 11, that is plenty old enough to learn that there are consequences for bad behavior.
Story 1) The family is asking for OP's ex to give their daughter expensive gifts. OP asked about the trust fund to get the point across that asking for things from a completely unrelated family is inappropriate. I feel like Shaaba got way too stuck on OP talking about her ex's resources. That wasn't a serious proposal. It was purely to point out Linda's hypocrisy.
Last one: if Emma wasn't a bully, she would have been invited. Maybe this should be a lesson for mom to not let her little darling be a bully before she ends up with no friends at all. Forcing someone to invite a person that's going to ruin their party is wrong.
Unfortunately, if the mother doesn't see Emma's behavior as a problem, she will ever only see the non-inviting of her daughter as her being unfairly singles out, and excluded by OP. I also don't think Emma is going to learn anything by not being invited when her sister is, all it's going to do is cause Emma to resent her sister, and her behavior might worsen.
@@nergregga Emma is not OP’s priority though, her own daughter is. Yes Emma is OP’s niece and I’m not saying Emma doesn’t deserve to learn better (I believe her parents failed her by letting her misbehave) but Carmen should be OP’s first priority.
@@s.a.4358 I agree. I understand the impulse to try and teach a child who isn't being patented properly what their parents won't teach them, but at the end of the day there's a limit to how much you can do. The parents have much more control over their child than you ever will, and there's not a lot you can do if it's going to be actively countered by bad parenting from the parents.
Sorry, I could probably have phrased that better, but in any case my point is this. It's clear Emma's parents are spoiling her and enabling her bad behaviour. So it seems like OP's choice is between inviting Emma and sending her the message that she can bully others all she likes and they will still invite her to their parties. Or not invite her, and have her mother tell her that she's being unfairly picked on and is the victim in this situation. Either way runs the risk of feeding into her bullying, but that's the fault of her parents, not OP. The person it *would* make a difference to is OP's daughter, for whom the choice is between inviting her bully to her birthday and enjoying at least one party free of bullying.
Mother could also use this as a lesson that not everyone is gonna like you and to respect when someone says "no". Like I'm thinking of other examples where their behavior would be more clear and so for example if this was like on a playground and Emma was being the only excluded from some game for being a bully, it's not mother's job to force other kids to play with her but to teach her child that she has to respect that and maybe work on not being a bully.
I genuinely have no idea how to get through to Emma that her behavior has to change if her parents won’t reenforce the new NON BULLYING behavior… OP’s daughter should NOT have to deal with a bully on her birthday & she should be able to choose who she invites, maybe inviting one sister but not the other would be the reality check the bully needs to change her behavior? I’m coming from the place of NOT having kids but being the kid who was forced to invite someone she didn’t want at her party, not by an adult, but a classmate who refused to take “no” for an answer even though other kids in the same class were not invited she was NOT the only one I wasn’t close enough with to willingly invite (granted I was older than the kids in the story) but I wish I had stood my ground with that party when I think back to it….
For the last one - I absolutely agree that she should have talked to her sister about the issue first. It's not a perfect solution, but I think I would have tried to arrange for Ana to take Emma to do something else fun on the same day as the party so that Trixie could still attend without Emma feeling excluded or being invited.
The reality of the situation is that one talk with Emma about her behavior probably won't get her to shape up in time for the tea party, established family dynamics like that don't usually just change overnight. Emma's behavior still needs to be addressed, but that sounds like a more long-term issue that the extended family needs to work on together. Keeping her away from the party in a way that minimizes sibling conflict and feelings of exclusion is probably the best thing to do in the short term since her behavior wasn't addressed earlier.
A 9 year old girl's birthday party can already be a socially fraught occasion even without added family drama. Trying to curb Emma's behavior at the party itself would probably just lead to more drama and hurt feelings later🤷♀
Yeah, a phone call probably should have happened before the physical invitations went out.
On the other hand, the chaotic side of me LOVES the savagery of a child inviting the cousin they like and specifically NOT inviting the cousin they don't like. Brutal honesty is a helluva way to learn.
I think the issue is that Ana hasn’t been addressing Emma’s behavioural issues in the past, so it’s possible a phone call wouldn’t have changed anything. Though, you’re correct, OP still should have reached out beforehand, not just sent the invites without warning.
For the heirloom story, to bequeath something means to leave it to someone. Betrothed is engaged to be married. You got it in the end.
You're doing great!
Last one NTA. As a person who was one of 27 cousins growing up, not everyone gets invited, just who you're closest to and that might not always be the one who is the same age.
You will never like everyone, that's just life. We have to be kind to everyone, so at family Christmas I'd be talking to my child if they were excluding anyone from play. But their birthday party is their party, their choice. And a good way to learn about social consequences.
4. I never invited any of my friends little sisters to my birthday parties growing up. If OPs daughter is closer to the youngest child (in age/interests/maturity) it makes perfect sense to only invite one. It's not a family reunion it's a friends party (I'm assuming none of the other 8 guests are related to op)
You could also argue that you felt like the older sibling wouldn't be interested because it's a little girls party and the tween would be much older than most of the attendees.
This is a failure on the cousins parents part not being able to manage a very real life situation. If older cousin got invited to a sleepover would Mom insist that little sibling had to go too?
This is family entitlement. She thinks she can push you around just because you're related.
Yuck
Additional context for me personally, I'm 3.5 years younger than my sister, so approximately the same age gap as the sisters in OPs story. I was never even INTERESTED in being one of my sisters friends (tagalong) she liked stupid stuff(more mature interests) and her friends weren't as cool as mine(not like actually "cool" I was a huge dork, but like, my friends were dorky in the same way as me and thus cooler, to me)
Last story - NTD you won’t be invited to everything, your siblings will get opportunities that you won’t. It only becomes a problem where your parents are consistently favoring one person over the other. There is a difference in power balance between a family member of your generation and one of a different generation. If the aunt is contributing otherwise to always leaving out the elder niece, then that would make her the drama but it’s the kid’s decision who she wants at the party
YES!!!
I NEVER wanted my cousin on my birthday but he was always there because "we don't wanna cause family drama", his mother (my aunt) is lazy, very irresponsible and arrogant.
This cousin of mine was a bully, every time he could he would put me down and make me feel bad about myself + all the physical fights. Even in our teenage years he acted the same, he would call me a liar, maniac, schizophrenic etc when I tried to stand my ground and his mother NEVER did anything.
I hate him, he is the only person in this world that I truly despise, I'm having to deal with all this rage in therapy because of how much he tormented me.
I wish my mother listened to me, I wish she understood that it wasn't just cousins not getting along, I wish she LISTENED ME and my father when we asked to let that cousin out of my life, but noooooooooo, she would always try to make us friends because "she too had a bad relationship with her cousin".
Thanks mom, I'm going to therapy now, such an awesome gift.
I feel like there is no solution to the last one because OP and her family already failed both Carmen and Emma long before the party. It sounds from the way OP laid it out like no one ever addressed Emma's behaviour, while OP has known for some time that it was causing issues in the cousins' relationship. This should have been a conversation with Emma's parents LONG before this.
As it is, there's a good chance Emma has no idea what she's done wrong and possibly didn't even know until now that her cousin didn't like her. If it was already established with everyone that Carmen didn't like playing the way Emma does then any rejection from the party specifically could have been mitigated at least a little and there would be some justice to it, but excluding one sister when they don't even know why is just plain cruel.
I agree! OP should have talked about this with Anna long ago and if Anna remained firm in her stance that Emma is doing nothing wrong, then OP should've made it clear that she would not expose her daughter to that anymore. That way, Carmen not inviting Emma wouldn't have come out of nowhere and OP would've exhausted other options before going straight to hurting a child's feelings.
Thank you for putting it so well! Both parents should be setting the cousins up for a better relationship!
And hey, that sounds like a hard convo. But it probably would’ve been better than blowing everything up by inviting one cousin.
I agree that the issue should have been adressed earlier, but from the sister’s reaction I can see, why OP might not have wanted to do that.
I disagree, that not inviting one sister is cruel. Carmen is at an age, where one should understand, that not everyone likes you. It probably isn’t the first time, Emma doesn’t want to spend time with her. And depending on the typ of bullying she is doing, she knows exactly, what she is doing. I had a classmate like that in elementary school.
I don’t think Emma should be forced to invite Carmen or not invite the younger sister too. The second would not be fair to the younger sister, because she would be “punished” for someone else’s actions. And the first option could ruin Emma’s whole day.
I grew up having people I felt bullied by being forced to be invited to parties by my parents to avoid drama with family or even family friends. I do think it's odd to invite one cousin and not their sibling, but if it's for bullying, maybe someone should tell the kid. Either "Your sister gets to go and you don't because you were mean to your cousin." or yeah, maybe "You both don't get to go to the party because your cousin feels bullied by [whichever one]." The first does seem like a pretty big deal to a child, but so is bullying. And if the other has to lose out because her sister was being a little bully then maybe she won't let her sister bully her cousin anymore.
For the last story, I think there are times when it is fair to discipline other people’s children. If they are attending a party at your house there may be behaviors that you do not deem acceptable under your roof. It doesn’t matter if the parents allow their children to do that at home. You are allowed to say: no shoes in the house or no eating food in your bedrooms, etc. if parents don’t like your rules they can leave, but it doesn’t mean you can’t have boundaries
100% agree. If you are responsible for looking after a child (I assume the parents of all the kids at this party aren't going to be staying) you can't just let the kids run rampage just because their parents aren't there to tell them to stop
Yes, exactly this!
I agree and disagree with you. Setting boundaries and discipline are two different things. You can set boundaries for your home and if kids do not follow those rules, it's up for their parents to discipline them, not you. If the parents also are not following your rules or letting their kids break them, you should talk to the parents and set boundaries towards them. Not towards the kids.
@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto I have to disagree. If my niece or nephew is in my house under my care, assuming their parent isn't there, they are my responsibility, which includes decipline. If I set a boundry and they break it a warning might be in order the first time but time out or some sort of removal of a perk or privilege is not an overstep in my book. That is still discipline. A consequence for an action that they are aware is wrong or breaks a boundry you've set for them in the space they are in.
But this is a known problem that Emma has always gotten away with and is going to be very disruptive at a party. Plus, Emma's mom may be there the whole time if both girls go. It's not unusual for family members to hang out or help at birthday parties. And there's only so much you can do without making a really big scene with the parent right there. Either way, the host mom has a lot of added stress with Emma present and you've taken away a little girl's autonomy to decide who she wants at her party. And it wouldn't take much bad behavior from Emma to totally ruin it for her.
OP is NTD in the vacation story. She only mentioned that she wanted to eat healty and suddenly she has ruined the entire trip? She said that her sister could pick the restaurant and she would just get a salad, which is already a compromise. Even if her sister wanted to eat somewhere specifically (and heart attack in a bucket does not scream gourmet restaurant) she should have communicated that calmly. Maybe OP is okay with one or two cheat meals. She never got the chance to say.
Yea she even said ill find something healthy on the menus, that was "the comprise", the sister was dragging the mood down. Shaba is extra cautious of diet culture advice
Or god forbid you spend a little time apart on a vacation? Go to separate restaurants, or get takeout from two different places! The sister is acting super weird
@@aricaine5024, I would hate to be eating out alone, especially while on vacation.
My guess would be that the sister probably feels a bit guilty about eating a super unhealthy meal next to someone who's only having a salad. You know, the same way some people can't order a dessert if their companion isn't having one too? Obviously that's not technically the OPs problem, but I can sort of get how the sister might feel a bit disappointed if forgetting about calories is a big part of a holiday mood for her and OPs healthy eating kills some of the enjoyment for her.
@@lapattiWell, it would be terrible advice if given to *you*, since you hate eating alone. Not everyone finds eating alone to be terrible. Especially when you're already spending all day with someone, I'll happily take a quiet hour alone to eat.
I don’t know what the answer to the birthday one should be, but I do feel like if neither cousin had been invited it would punishing the well behaved sister for her older sister’s actions and that can breed resentment of a sibling. I wonder if Trixie is being punished like that in other situations for her sister’s actions.
I would add, there are some kids that actually love rough housing. Maybe Emma just needs paired with kids that like it rough like her and she is taught that certain kids don’t and she needs to release her energy either with inanimate objects or likeminded kids.
I don't think it would be a punishment if neither of the cousins knew Carmen even considered inviting one of them. Anna saying if Emma can't go, neither can her sister, that is her being punished for something she didn't do because the invitation she already had was taken away from her.
@@blackk_rose_it’s still not letting trixie go, even if she doesn’t know about it. especially anna and trixie have shared friends who will be going, trixie WILL find out about the party and feel left out when the others are talking about it or say an inside joke about it or something.
in the US, especially the South, there are absolutely restaurants that have zero healthy options. everything is meat with dairy and starch and lard and whatnot. the "veggies" are creamed or fried or whatever. but they can do a couple of those for the sis and some for the op. or just have a few meals where they go different places. they don't have to spend every single second together.
Last OP needs to maintain to Carmen that she can enforce boundaries with bio family. This blowback from the extended family over the guest list has nothing to do with Carmen, and it's not great that OP is deflecting it that way. Rather, OP needs to show accountability to her sister that she didn't do her job as the adult navigating this invite situation (not having a conversation with Anna before invitations were sent out and so on). This was OP's blunder, and I hope it doesn't undercut the lesson for Carmen about boundaries.
Man.. i don't think I've ever disagreed with you so much Shaaba. This is why I love this series it really does make me look at a different perspective, it doesn't necessarily change my mind but i appreciate hearing your reasoning
Wtf did you disagree with her on this episode? They seemed pretty cut and dry.
@@unapologeticallylizzy The first one. OP isn't missing any point; they're making a crazy trade offer to point out the stupidness of Linda's request.
@@Shleepy_Sheepy Oh. Yeah, I think I'm with you there. Shaaba might actually be missing the point a bit.
the last one 😅
For the last story, I wonder if anyone has even asked Emma if she would like to attend the party in the first place? She likes rough horseplay, I think that just being there would suck for her and she might cause a stink if forced to attend. If she does want to go, I can understand her mom being upset, but if she doesn't then there's no reason why she can't stay home and have her own friends over while Trixie goes to the party, or Anna and her hubby take Emma out to do things that she likes. This whole argument could have been avoided, but I feel as though Anna is approaching from a place of entitlement on her daughters behalf rather than advocating for her daughter, if this is what Emma would really like to do.
Great point! I know when I was 11 the last thing I wanted to do was go to a tea party with 8/9 year olds. They seemed like such little kids to me back then!
Exactly my thoughts. Did Emma even know there was a party and did she want to attend, knowing the theme and that (it would seem) it was a bunch of 8-9 year olds that she probably doesn't even know (besides her sister and cousin)?
Birthday party... I'd have said it was little kids, made 11yo feel grown up.
My best friend is one of quads and growing up they always went to separate events and were quite glad not to be treated the same
My dad's side of the family has a family bible (heirloom?) that has been passed down from son to son, since like... the 1800's. What irks me about this is that it's specifically "son to son". Besides the very first person, who actually bought said bible, who was a woman (we know this because she wrote her name in the beginning pages), this tradition has been held - to the point that in recent history, the bible had been passed down a different branch of our family tree, until their last son (in an unbroken chain, I think he had daughters?). That son then took it upon himself to research our history and look though every single branch down, to find a currently unbroken chain of sons. Ours were the only one left. He posted the bible, with an explanation, to my grandpa, in my dad's youth. A few years back, when grandpa died, dad got it. That's when we found out that it's not just a bible, but also an archive of the previous generations. Each son, that has owned the bible, has their story written down, together with pictures (most likely done by their significant others, after they died) and the papers + photos have been put in between pages of the book. Anyway, when my dad inherited it, my sister and I started discussing who'd get it. You see, dad is the last son too. Anyway, ofc we both saw it as a matter of fact that one of us should get it, but dad might be even more irking and stick with tradition, aka not giving it to either of us. I think he mused about a museum? Idk, it was many years since we talked about it.
I mean, if you and your sister wanted to stick as close to tradition as possible, and you both have the intention to have kids, I would think that Dad (or eldest daughter in the event that he passes) would 'hold' the bible until you or your sister have a son. Or, in the event that both of you only have daughters, whichever granddaughter of Dad has a son. Like it's just kind of 'skipping' a generation due to a lack of male progeny.
I feel like for the last one, yes tell the aunt in advance and then have Trixie go to birthday party but then have the aunt go do something equally as fun with Emma so that way neither child feels left out
True n if the other daughter sought to be better, she could do so on any random Tuesday, but well intentions are not enough to prioritize an immediate invite
For the last story, I think Emma's mom needs to take responsibility for her kid's behaviour and than means explaining to a young child why they weren't invited to something. It's hard, but there is a compassionate way to explain to a child how their actions hurt someone else and that is the reason why that person doesn't want to see them right now.
If they have other family gatherings, the kids will still need to see each other then. It's not like Carmen's dislike of Emma's bullying is going to dictate every family event - just this party! Let the kid have her birthday for herself, and other family events can be the learning opportunity about family dynamics and doing our best to be kind even around people who aren't very nice.
‘Betrothed’ means “promised in marriage.” It’s sometimes synonymous with an engagement, other times it happens when the parties are still children-like in the case of royalty throughout history. I think ‘bequeathed’ was the word you were looking for. 😉
The last one seems strange for me that this causes drama. Each cousin has different relationships with each other, why invite the ones you don't get along with? I could see if she invited all her cousins except the one, but the post didn't clarify if that was the case
I completely agree! This is not a family event but a party she invites her friends to - one of them just happens to be her cousin 💁
I agree as well! The conflict in the comments and shaabas opinion on this confuses me. It's a birthday party not a family event so why should you need to invite people you don't want to be there?
I have 9 cousins and I don’t think I have ever been invited to any of their birthdays (granted there’s a few hundred miles and about 10 years between most of us) but I do think it’s odd to force people to get along to the point of having them at your birthday parties just because your parents get along/are related. I certainly didn’t invite my friend’s siblings to my parties, why is this any different?
That clarification would have been helpful, but there are certainly many small families out there. I personally have over 25 cousins, but my kids have no first cousins at the moment and probably won't for the foreseeable future, so in our case I would find it odd if their cousin invited only my youngest, and not my oldest daughter being that they would be their ONLY cousins on both sides of the family.
These were all pretty clear to me.
1: NTA
2: NTA
3: NTA
4: NTA Mum should have discussed the consequences of inviting one and not the other with her daughter initially and let her decide if she wanted one or both or neither, before sending out invitations.
Sure but that conversation should also be about the friends she did and didn’t invite. If the sisters were invited to another child’s party would Anna still push for them both to be invited. Family always seem entitled to be invited to birthday’s and events regardless how they treat other family members. If you don’t get invited question why that might be. If the birthday girl is choosing who she wants at the party then she should be encouraged to do that. Anna Doesn’t need to demand an invite for Emma, all was required is a RSVP yes or no. If Anna doesn’t want either to go because both aren’t invite it so be it. But to get other family to pressure Carmen’s mum to invite Emma as well shows the entitlement.
You and Anna could have solved this with some communication beforehand: Trixie goes to Carmen's party, while Emma goes out on a "special Mommy-daughter date" with Anna (restaurant, movie, pool, park, whatever). That way, both girls feel like they're doing something special and fun and no one's feelings get hurt. Maybe Anna could even use the outing with her daughter to bring up these behavior issues.
As an adult, it's your responsibility to anticipate social issues BEFORE involving the children!
Regarding the last one: Too often with these AITA it's people who are so avoidant of conflict in the first place that they won't just be open with their family members about how they feel, then later on down the line they find themselves in drama. Had the OP never held their own child's boundaries and stopped Emma's behaviour?
I think the correct decision in the birthday party story is not to invite either cousin. Explain to Carmen that it would feel bad for Emma if her sister got invited and she didn't. It's a good chance to teach Carmen about empathy and considering other people's feelings. Its not fair, but it's also a good chance to learn that life isn't fair. She's getting a magical princess tea party, so i think the disappointment will be soon forgotten. We should give our kids a good life, but we shouldn't completely shield them from reality and the hard decisions that come with it.
I absolutely agree, though if Carmen would still want Emma to not be invited, I'd add a talk with Anna too after talking with Carmen about why she doesn't want Emma there. Just so that Anna can explain to Emma why she wasn't invited, to also make this a learning and growing opportunity for Emma to show her that kids won't want to hang out with her if she's behaving like a bully.
@@talasheart7889 I was thinking that they should just skip inviting Trixie at all. But your solution is good too. It's a hard situation and there isn't one right answer.
My granddaughter is the problem child. But, she also has Aspergers and ADHD. Some kids just need a little extra attention. Have their mother come and help.
Why everyone is so focused on the bully not feeling left out ? She's the one who caused herself not yo be invited because of her behavior. So why everybody else should feel bad so she doesn't ? Like Carmen not getting to have her cousin there zns Trixie missing the party just so the bully doesn't feel bad .
I think this is actually exactly what should happen. She should see her sister getting invited and feel left out and she should be told thet it was because of her behavior so she can understand that her behavior has consequences.
💯 No need to punish 2 kids for the bad behavior of another. Bully’s mum should be more upset that her daughter is a bully and not that she wasn’t invited
OP probably should have warned Anna about Trixie getting an invitation but not Emma, but otherwise she was fine.
- it sounds like Emma needs the feedback from somewhere. yes, it's going to hurt when she does, but at 11 she's both old enough to learn and young enough to fix it.
- it's important for Carmen to learn she doesn't have to invite the whole [insert group here] even if one of them mistreats her (for most of us, it wouldn't even be a conversation if it was her class at school)
- we don't actually know how Emma would've felt. does she love Carmen dearly, and wish Carmen liked her more? or does she see Carmen as an annoying little kid? (Carmen & Trixie are closer in age, and sometimes that really matters to kids). I was invited to at least 2 of my younger cousin's birthday parties that my brother & older cousin didn't go to. I'm pretty sure they weren't invited to either. neither man has expressed any jealousy over this at the time or afterwards (we're all adults now and I'm 98% sure they'd react with confusion if I asked at this point).
- while a lot of people do see their extended family (or just households within it) as one unit, it's not always the best practise. it sets up a dynamic where, at best, you can only see [relative you really get on with] as much as you can tolerate seeing [this annoying fucker], essentially putting a cap on how close you can be to them. at worst, it means that cutting off an abuser automatically means losing your entire extended family. (also, and I recognise it's probably a non-issue for OP right now, it's logistically more complicated and can torpedo your ability to do extended family things if, say, the default host dies and no one else has space/time to host everyone at once)
Yeah these are really good points
All really good points, actually. I especially like the way you phrased the last one 😂
birthday party: i definitely think that there should have been conversations before sending out the invites. at least one between the parents and at least one with the bully child. i see how theres no avoiding this drama without hurting at least one of the children, unless what you described as ideal happened and everyone got along in the end. its definitely a learning opportunity for both the bully kid and her parents and grandparents bc at the end of the day, kids arent born as misbehaving bullies and the whole family needs to learn that letting such behaviour go on is not going to fly. sooner or later they need to face this problem and do something about it. NTA should have handled it better though.
for the last one - when i was younger my parents would split up my party into two days, one for my friends and the other for family, and i think this situation could be resolved by doing this. trixie could still be invited to the friends party as well as the family party, and emma may not feel as left out if she went to the family one instead
#4 - NTA
Take family out of it for a second and think about this scenario:
There is 2 siblings in a class one of them is a bully, the second sibling is really nice. If another child in their class decided only to invite the nice sibling to their birthday and not the bully would the parents be in the wrong for allowing that?
If you think they would be wrong than fair enough. If you don't think the parents would be wrong but you do think the parents in #4 were wrong then why? Is it just because you think they should have tried to keep the peace?
Other things to consider:
- OP is not responsible for her sister decision to coddle Emma and make her think the world revolves around her.
- being family doesn't give you more power to control someone's parenting. They may be more willing to listen but they can still choose to ignore you.
- Not everything has to be fair, this would be a good opportunity for Emma to learn that.
- This is a good opportunity for Emma to learn that if you treat people poorly they wont want you around.
On The last story I think something was overlooked in that she could only invite nine of her friends, which means the tables that her dad made are only two tables of five. This wasn't a regular backyard party where there was plenty of room for everybody to move and and play, this required specific seating. And it's very easy to say we didn't think that this was Emma's kind of a fun time. Also if she invited the other cousin, that meant she had to leave one of her close friends out. It's her birthday party and if she could only invite nine people, she had to be selected and why would she invite a cousin that isn't the tea party type?
It didn't say she could only invite nine, only that Carmen invited nine and did not include Emma.
@@danitini14 dad made tables and this was a sit-down event with specific dishes. Well they may not have specifically mentioned that she was only allowed to invite nine other people, it makes the most sense when it's dishwasher/place setting specific.
“Never argue with stupid people, because they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. “Mark Twain.
"Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway."
Shannon L. Alder
I don't know. Something about calling other people stupid or idiots doesn't completely sit right with me. Hm.
@@Nino-xp5df I agree. It's a fun and pithy statement, but also a bit unkind.
For the birthday situation, I was in a similar situation once but I was Emma. My younger sibling Dan is 3 years younger than me, so they were a freshman when I was a senior in high school. Dan became close friends with one of my friends, Rachel, and when everyone was planning graduation parties, Rachel invited all our mutual friends and Dan but not me (I invited Rachel to my own graduation party). I’ll be honest, it hurt, but I accepted that it was her decision to make. The kinda funny part was I ended up having to give Dan a ride to the party cuz my parents couldn’t, and when I dropped Dan off our mutual friends were confused like “aren’t you staying?” Cuz I didn’t tell anyone she didn’t invited me. I could have stayed but decided to respect Rachel’s wishes, said I was busy, and left. It’s hard feeling excluded, but it’s better to accept when people let you know they’re done with you. I’m not friends with Rachel anymore that that’s okay. Idk, since the children in this story are young and they’re all cousins it’s different, but forcing someone to invite someone they didn’t want to for any reason is never okay. You just have to let it go.
You're a better person than me. I would have told everyone I wasn't invited. Lol. My first thought was that perhaps Rachel assumed you would be coming and didn't need a specific invite, but if Dan got a specific invite, then that doesn't make sense. But yeah, I would have told everyone, "I'm as confused as you, but I wasn't invited, so... have fun, guys!" Then drive off, lol.
Last story: if the oldest sister was 5 or even 7, I could see how she would struggle to understand the consequences of her actions, seeing how she's apparently the "precious can do no wrong" kid. But she is 11. Granted, her mom and grand ma are not helping, but she should be able to understand that being a bully comes with people not really liking you and wanting to have you around. I do think OP could have mentioned it beforehand hand so the mom could have a conversation with her oldest, but it's totally fair for OP's daughter to want to invite the nice, fair and fun to be around cousin, and not the one who will bully her and her friends.
Okay, its all good if people with more experience with children disagree with me but I think its MADNESS that people are so adamant that a child is expected to invite someone they are bullied by to their party. I wouldn't want that for my kid and if my kid wasn't invited because they were a bully I wouldn't want them to go and ruin this party. It seems like a great learning moment and if I thought they did nothing wrong then we could go do something else or plan an outing with their friends. Idk.
One time my Mom had to explain how my actions were perceived as bullying to one of my neighbors and I didn't even realize it was coming off that way and really helped me understand some empathy.
6:01 "I just think fair is fair." I've learned in my 20 years on this planet that life isn't fair and if you think it is, you're going to have a hard time
Exactly. "Life isn't fair" is a lesson we'll have to learn at some point.
That last one is so tricky! Tbh it just makes me glad to be an only child and not in the same age group as my cousins 😂
SAME!
For the last story: yes, there's a lot of room to make better parenting decisions in the future, it could have been a learning experience, the parents should have communicated better etc. BUT let's not forget the birthday itself is not a learning experience or whatever, it's a child's birthday, in her own home, and it should be a safe space for her. The adults need to work things out on their own, it's not the child's responsibility to spend her birthday anxious about what her cousin might or might not do to give the parents a chance to discipline her. Any other moment but the party can be a great teaching moment.
Last one: talk it through with Carmen. Let her know the repercussions the decision has and ask if she wants to stick with it. If she lets Emma come, then OP should either have Anna come to watch her kid (and discipline if needed) and/or have a talk with Emma and Anna beforehand about what's going on and what behavior is acceptable. If Carmen's firm about not wanting Emma there, OP and Anna still need to have a conversation because it sounds like OP has been bottling up her frustration with Anna and Emma for a while now. As frustrating as it is to deal with spoiled kids, kids are a product of their upbringing. OP also knew there was a problem between the kids. If she doesn't clearly communicate with her sister, it's going to not only damage their relationship, but also set an awful standard for her own daughter. She needs to have a conversation, not just avoid her problems and try to win the argument with the "best" one-liner.
PS: I don't mean to say cutting someone off is ignoring your problems. It's just that OP and Anna are pushing their problems with each other under the rug, and it feels like they're fighting passive aggressively through their kids
Last story I think we have to think about which kid gets hurt in each scenario. Inviting both hurts birthday girl, not inviting both hurts nice cousin, and inviting nice cousin hurts mean cousin. If those are the options (say they couldn't come up with any alternative ways to celebrate) then it makes the most sense to go with the option that hurts the mean cousin. If you bully your cousin then you should have to face the consequences of that. Birthday girl and nice cousin did nothing wrong so they should have a chance to celebrate together.
Last one: Carmen gets to choose whether both or neither is invited. Life lesson is sometimes people we like come “packaged” with other people we don’t and we have to learn to get along or have a little distance sometimes. I’d make sure Carmen knew I’d back her either way and that if Emma bullied her she could ask for help. Choices have consequences.
Last story: NTA with a little ESH. First, a parents priority is to keep your child feeling happy and safe on her birthday (and everything else). Second, parenting your niece is primarily the parents responsibility. The village is there to support the parent in that, not to take over.
OP could have invited both and set firm rules. Your house, your rules. But that would probably cause even more drama at the party, wen Emma would break the rules (if she did).
Third, Emma's parents also could make something fun with her that day, so she wouldn't feel alone that day.
So the second and thirt point ate not on OPs shoulders at all.
Would it be the right thing to talk to ops sister in advance, sure. But it would be unfair to only put it on OPs shoulders to take up Emmas behavioral issues. That's on the parents. So I'm also unsure whether it would have given any result or whether the sister just would have continued to ignore the issue. But yes it would have been good to take up the topic in advance. Therefore the tiny ESH.
The question is also how Emma feels about Carmen. Would Emma want to see Carmen? I certainly had cousins I didn't have much of a connection with until we all were grow up.
Shaaba, I genuinely feel the same way about beignets. After watching Encanto, I taught myself to make arepas con queso so I could try them! XD
The heirloom concept is very cute, but I imagine that if I were to have kids and start something like that for future generations, would be more of a tradition to make some kind of necklace or something for when a child is born to be presented on their 18th birthday or something like that... and not one single item so people can go on free-4-alls over it. haha
Would be kind of magical too, to have someone hold on to the ones from the deseased or something like that, a way to remember by. ♥
For the last story, there is no real right answer. There will drama no matter what. Either Carmen's party has the potential of being disrupted by Emma as well as Carmen having to be forced to interact with someone she doesn't like nor want there - or - there's drama among the adults because OP stands by her daughter's guest list and what seems like Anna throwing a fit because both girls couldn't go. Side note: does Emma even like Carmen enough to want to go? Even if she did, which I don't think is likely, would she be into a princess fairy tea party? As a kid, if I was invited somewhere by someone I was friends with but didn't have an interest in the activity, I wouldn't want to go. The few times I was forced to go, I was miserable and a major grumpy pants.
Anyway, with that being said, I think OP should back her daughter's wishes and not have Emma come mainly because it's Carmen's party. It's her day. She should be able to say who comes or who doesn't. Making sure she has fun is what's important. Else what she's being taught is that what other people want matters more than her and that catering to Karens is more important than having friends around you at your special event. What would have happened if Carmen wanted to go to an amusement park or the movies or something but could only invite one other person and that person was Trixie? Would Anna then say Trixie couldn't go because Emma wasn't invited too? Or what if this was a classmate of Trixie's and Emma wasn't invited because the classmate didn't know Emma? Just because they're family - sister's in this case - doesn't mean that they both have to do the exact same things all the time. I've 2 older sisters, one only a couple years older like Emma is to Trixie, and when I either forced myself into the things they did with their friends or was forced to be involved by our mom, no one was happy. They either made me feel unwanted or they couldn't have as much fun because there was this kid tagging along they had to keep an eye on.
Something that needs to be made clear is that Carmen isn't being mean spirited and not inviting Emma out of spite or being a bully. Emma isn't being left out for no reason. From what is said, Emma is not Carmen's friend and Emma's a bit of a brat to Carmen, so why should people force Emma to be where she isn't wanted. What if Emma is allowed to go and Carmen says something like "I didn't want you here, but your mom forced me so Trixie could come" or if Carmen and her other friends purposely ignore or leave Emma out in other ways? Emma will probably act out and now she's just being set up to fail. Or she may feel resentment towards Trixie for not having a good time and take it out on her sister.
Everyone needs to learn at some point that sometimes people wont want you around and you shouldn't force yourself - or be forced by others - to be involved in things or be around those who don't want you there. And that's ok. It's ok to not be invited to every single family member's birthday party. It's okay to only invite certain people and not others. It's ok if certain people don't like you or you don't like certain people in turn. What's important is that you find people who do want you around and who do like you. If all three kids learn this early on, it will cause sooooo much less drama later on.
For the last one, I think OP should've just done two separate parties - one where the whole family is invited and another party only for the friends where neither cousin is invited (isn't that normal to do that anyway?). It can get tricky if the daughter is very close to her cousin and they're friends, but I'd explain that situation in a kid friendly way and include her in the decision making process by explaining the consequences - with guidance, of course. I do think it would be different if one cousin is part of the same friend group that the daughter wants to invite and the other cousin is not. In that case, I do think it's okay to only invite one (but tell the mother beforehand, so she's prepared) because it's perfectly normal to not be invited to a party of someone in your sibling's friend group - even though with cousins, it's of course a little different because everyone knows each other and you are family.
I would definitely have a chat with the sister too though. If your kid hates being around their cousin, I do think you should discuss that as parents and find a way around that. Because they will see each other at family gatherings and it makes me sad to think that she dreads those because her cousin is making her feel miserable and she just has to deal with that.
So, re: the birthday party: ............ I'm going to go into dangerous territory here. I think neither cousin coming to the party IS a good learning/teaching opportunity for Carmen. She is old enough to start learning about family dynamics. (I'm one of those especially dangerous people that won't talk down to a person just because they're younger.) She won't 'get' it all, certainly, and much of that discussion should be framed for her experience set. But the takeaway should be that she's allowed to feel the way she does about her cousins. And that inviting one but not the other is also her right for her birthday party. That she should feel safe and secure at parties that are hers (either thrown by, or where she's GOH) and she should never back down from inviting the people she wants to be there. But that invites will have consequences. Don't smear the family, don't call the nasty cousin something terrible, and make sure she understands that even the bully cousin is allowed to feel however she feels. And don't promote/allow Carmen to get especially vicious or bitchy about it. Just a calm discussion, possibly a couple, about the dynamics in her level of experience. Every disappointment can be a great way to teach and learn. You just have to be ready for them.
The first OP NEVER said that the ex would give money to stepdaughter. She said that she would talk/ask him about it if/when they the split the daughters Trust fund. 4:51
For the last one YTA. It was inevitable that this would cause problems. OP should have encouraged her daughter to think about the impact of her choice on others' feelings and then suggested that she either invite both cousins or neither rather than letting it be ok to exclude an individual. If daughter was then struggling to decide, then OP could speak to her sister about the dilemma. If both attend then it's ok for OP to discipline her niece as appropriate at the party. Also agree with the suggestions about doing something nice with the cousins seperate from the party. It's not fair to exclude one child - even if they do behave unkindly, the answer is to show a better way of behaving and deal with her behaviour not just cut her out, which will teach her that she is the problem rather than her behaviour.
The birthday party: I don't know much about the family dynamics bit, but I do know that my mom invited my actual bully, who was mean and tortured the hell out of me, to a big birthday party that I didn't even want to have one year in elementary school. It made my birthday miserable, even though no overt bullying happened at my party, because I was so anxious and afraid of doing something that was going to get me bullied later at school where there would be no one to protect me. (Which did happen, I was the "weird kid" and this one girl just really loved to make me miserable.) I agree about having a conversation with the parent since it's a family thing, but like... She should not have to have someone who is mean to her at her party. Absolutely not.
I too had to have my bullies at my birthday parties even if they were older siblings of someone in my class/year group. I dreaded every single party and I had so much anxiety around them because of that. Even now I hate my birthday and even the thought of a small party (where I control the invites) makes me squirm. From the post it seems as though OP had tried again and again to address Emma’s behaviour with her parent/s and grandparents/other family and knows exactly how they (haven’t) handled it before - when you know nothing is going to change and her parents aren’t going to step up or put their foot down and address her behaviour, why potentially risk inviting that type of situation to a party that is supposed to be a magical wonderful perfect day all about the birthday girl where there’s a very real risk of her being bullied and hurt and not a single adult, except for an already stressed out mom who is in charge of everything else on the day, is going to not do anything about it. Why put your kid in that situation when it’s their special day and they deserve to have just a happy, good day. Yeah it might cause drama but maybe this is the sign that will make Emma’s family finally stand up and listen so they’ll address the problem before the next party invite.
For the last one she should have told her daughter that it’s not nice to only invite one cousin and that if she doesn’t want the bully, understandably, that she sadly cannot have the cousin she does like
The last story sounds horrible. O p's daughter has a cousin who bullies her and most of the adults in her family are accomplices and even possibly participating and said bulliing. Now the co-conspirators to the bullying are telling the only safe adult that she is promoting bullying you for teaching her daughter how to protect yourself against a bully. And to make matters worse, her cousin.That isn't a poet is being bullied for her failure to bully and being told that it is OP's daughter that is the cause of it.
With this vacation scenario, if the sister said that I paid for this vacation so we should do what I want. I would say I don’t want your vacation. You don’t pay for something and expect it to be just how you want it that’s not how gifts work. 100% there should be compromise, but I would absolutely hate that and would be put off big time.
Oh, you totally can have more family heirlooms. One person, you give the ring from your great-grandmother, another you give the necklace your spouse gave you on your wedding day... but it works better if you don't focus so much on "the oldest gets..." and more on "because I know you love this..." or "because we are so close..." or "Because you remind me so much of Grandma..." let the meaning be a personal one rather than a birth order one, and there won't be so much mathing based on comparison of generations between new and old heirlooms.
Also, before I knew I wouldn't ever have kids, I was completely planning on taking my engagement ring and making a pendant or ring with each of the stones for one of our children if we had three children, or if we had two children making a pair of earrings with the two emeralds and putting some other stones around the garnet in the setting, or if we had four children then three would get jewelry made with one of the stones and the other would get their choice of stones in the setting... so even if you don't have a lot of fine items to pass down, you can usually find some way to include everyone.
Also, since she had her own engagement diamond and two from her aunts, my grandmother said, to my mother and my two aunts (my mother's sister and sister-in-law), "We have three diamond rings in our family. I want each of you to have one. Here they are. [insert brief provenance on each]. Do any of you have a preference?" Since the three of them had different tastes in jewelry, there wasn't any argument about who got which one, and no one was jealous that they didn't get "The ring Dad gave Mom," because they each got the one they wanted.
I feel having rules such as oldest etc. works because it would feel less of a slight to others as it's based on nature and not personal. Like a mother giving her daughter a necklace because she felt she deserved it more or felt more connection to her would upset her other daughters and make them feel less and they'd accuse the mom of playing favorites. But a mom giving her daughter an heirloom because she's the oldest won't make her other daughters feel less or hurt. At worst, they'd be a little annoyed that they lost the birth order lottery but they can't really accuse the mother of the favourites or blame anyone for them not being the oldest.
For the last one - if I was 9, and somebody forced me to invite a girl who I don't like and who is mean to me I wouldn't want the party. Cancel it, I don't care. The problem here is OP left it all to the last minute. It should have been discussed weeks earlier, one on one with OP's sister, to give her a chance to prepare Emma and explain to her that because of her behaviour she's going to sit this one out. And try to correct the course from then on.
In the last story, there was a lot of communication missing. First, if the two cousins are having a difficult relationship, that is something that should be addressed without the Birthday party being involved. With the Birthday, OP had two options that I see. I would probably have gone with option A, which is to communicate with her daughter. Tell her that she is not obligated to invite anyone she doesn't want to be at her party, but if she doesn't want to invite one cousin, she shouldn't invite the other. Option B, OP should have gone to her sister and said that the older daughter wasn't going to be invited to the birthday party due to the relationship she has with the birthday girl. Then OP should have asked her sister which she preferred, that neither daughter be invited or just the younger one. Giving her sister the choice before the invites go out as to which situation she wants to explain to her children. Communication!
The grandmother owns the heirloom…she can do anything she wants concerning it…
There are so many comments, but I had to weigh in on the last one. Yes, a conversation should have been had with Emma, but it sounds like maybe a conversation HAS been had with Emma, and she isn’t changing. It sucks, but sometimes we have to face the consequences of our actions, even as children. If she’s mean, she won’t be invited. If she really wants to help, mom will take this opportunity to explain what’s going on, let Emma feel her feelings of sadness or frustration, and then brainstorm (or even practice!) how she can do better next time.
for the last story: the fact that it’s gotten to the point where Emma is literally being excluded from family events because her mother is unable to discipline her properly is entirely on the mother. she should be ashamed that she has let the situation get this far and realize how this is affecting her daughters social life and everyone else around her
as for the best course of action, it’s tricky. i think pitting sisters against each other by letting trixie go without emma is not a good choice since the responsibility of her not being invited in the first place is entirely on the mother. it might be best not to let either go but take it as a learning moment to correct emma’s behavior
got really heated for this one hjshsj
I agree with your opinion on the last one: OP should've gotten Anna involved and tried to find a solution together, like how you suggested that Anna could have explained to Emma that she's not invited this time because of her behavior, and either left it at that for now or given her an opportunity to show better behavior towards Carmen.
#4 story:
We had a rule in school, if you invite more then 2 girls or boys, in invite the whole group of girls or boys.
That way no one is left out, but you can still invite a best friend if you choose to keep it small.
Most kids invited all, a few invited the whole class boys and girls together, the families who couldn't afford that, never invited anyone, my family is an example of that, but i also had friends in other classes and on other schools and so i could invite a few people that werent in my class anyways.
(In Denmark you follow the same class from 0-9th grade so everyone knows everyone always)
Its not a perfect rule, but it worked well and allows for no one to be left out..
In this scenario i would have told my kid, beforehand its either both of them or none of them, though luck, but you have to choose.
Eleven year olds play differently than 8-9 year olds.
With the heirloom thing reminded me of something that was passed down to me and my cousins. My grandmother had a pearl necklace that all her daughters wore on their wedding day. A couple of my older cousins also wore the necklace as their "something old" while my grandmother was still living. After she passed, one of my aunts took the necklace and made it into a collection of bracelets so we all had a portion of it as a memento. And then the tradition of wearing Grandma's pearls on our wedding day could continue.
On the last one, I need more information. Its perfectly normal to invite one sibling to a party and not another if the other isn't your friend. There is no information in the post about the relationship between Trixie and Carmen. If Carmen and Trixie have play dates that don't include Emma then it makes sense to me that Trixie would be invited and Emma wouldn't.
I had cousins I didn't like and when I was a kid the rule was always that cousins came in sibling sets. You could not invite one and not the other but you could opt out of a set altogether. It's not a perfect solution but it was a compromise that hurt the fewest children's feelings. I never felt it was unfair and I think it made the best of a difficult situation
My logic for the heirloom is that one of the granddaughters is blood the other is not and most people want a heirloom to remain in the bloodline. But ahe also would nta if she gave the step granddaughter the earring depending on the situation.
I was at Disney Orlando last week, everything is insanely expensive. $1000 didn't even last 1 week.
About the 2nd one, my step grandpa is my step grandpa cuz he married my grandma, so I see him every time I see my grandma, and if he gave something to his bio grandkids instead of me I’d be like “alright fair enough makes sense” like???? Girl what???
OP #3. Maybe sister should take a friend. What fun is a trip where one person is expecting gratitude and the other is feeling forced?
Last one is, start a dialouge with chikd, double check the reasin, talk sister about it. "We are apprehensive about inviting older cousin bc daughter doesnt want to invite her, but if you help manage your daughter no one has to be left out.
Then double check with b day girl, have a similar combo with cousin and then follow through.
The problem isnt the bday party, the problem is that there is a long overdue convo about how oldest treats OP's kid and how if they want then to have a good relationship where they have activities together, then we need to nurture it, not force it.
Betrothed = someone you intend to marry. Shaaba was thinking of the word bequeathed, which is to leave (property) to a person or other beneficiary by a will.
When your child is going to invite one sibling and not the other, either relative or friend, you tell the parents in advance so they can "soften the blow" or outright decline the invitation before the child is invited and then be disappointed not to go. To "soften the blow" they can downplay the party to the"uninvited" child and plan a great day out for them, maybe a playdate with their own friends.
OP is definitely resentful towards the sister, parents and niece and REALLY went about this the wrong way. Now the kids are going to resent each other one way or another 🤷♀️🤦♀️
Last one: I suggest OP tell Carmen that she can either invite both cousins or neither of them and let her decide as it is her party. That could teach her that sometimes you have to make sacrifices, meaning having Emma there or not being able to have Trixie there. Unfortunately, Carmen and Trixie will be miserable either way but that's the parent's + grandparent's fault for not being able to communicate and encouraging bad behaviour.
I think OP talking to Emma about her behaviour before the party would cause drama as well. OP is not Emma's parent and it's a very delicate topic to handle, meaning basically saying to the child 'You're a bully', and nobody asked for OP's opinion. I think this would cause drama no matter what. Even if OP talked to Anna about Emma being a bully. People don't like to be told they are doing something wrong, especially being a parent who makes the child become a bully. I agree that a conversation beforehand would have been better but it would have been drama nonetheless. You just can't win sometimes.
For the last story, I feel there is no winning because it would also be very unfair for the younger sister to never be invited because her older sister is being a bully and doesn’t get invited.
The correct thing is: teach the bully that being a bad person is wrong, while not depriving the innocent younger sister of her friendship.
Bullies will only understand that when their actions start to have consequences, being left alone feels way worse than your entire family not going anyways, she needs to feel down to understand that she needs to get better.
It’s the best day of the week! Love your hair Shaaba, and excited for the new song.
Last story ntd. It's Carmen's party she gets to choose who comes.
Anyone else pick up on the fact that since Jamie and Shaaba have started 1800 Drama pod that shaaba has now started saying not the drama instead of not the a hole, its so interesting how the brain builds speech habits 🤣😁
Story 1 - NTD they made an unreasonable request, you made a compromise. They have no control over what your ex and his family does for your child under their care, and you didn’t promise that they would help their kid, you asked for their agreement in exchange for talking to your ex’s family. If they had said yes, you could have explained the situation to your ex and he could have assisted OR you could have simply told them no after a day.
For the last one op should have told the mom only one girl was invited, but I think it’s okay to stand her ground on only one come. If I were little and someone came to my bday party I’d want to cancel the whole thing. (I was a little dramatic like that) but it would have ruined my bday party if I was made to keep it going
I feel like if she knows Carmen doesn't like Emma because she's mean, OP can ask "how about we let your cousin come as long as she promises to be nice and keeps her promise? And if she starts being mean, you can ask us to make her leave."
Then OP can go to her sister and let her know the deal. Ask her to talk to Emma and warn her that if she's mean to the other kids, she'll have to leave the party (presumably by being kept inside instead with one of the parents).
In this way, Carmen learns that her mother will respect her boundaries and keep her safe, but also how to deal with mean people in a way that might change them: let them know they're being mean, give them a chance to be better, and exclude them if they refuse to change. Neither Trixie nor Emma (if she behaves) will have to feel excluded, and hopefully Emma will learn to be nicer because being mean has negative consequences.
Gosh that last one is so tricky! Would have loved to see how Jamie would handle it & the two of you together 💕
Last story how is it both the families fault for not disciplining Emma, but also not their place to?
#4. Invite both cousins and have their mother come to help out.
It's so funny to me when adults who have their own kids start involving their parents in the drama
Passing down heirlooms is how family feuds always start...
Honestly with the vacation one I think a good solution would be to just not always eat together but OP goes to a restaurant that they want and the sis goes to one she would like and you meet up again afterwards etc . Like you can do main meals together etc but when you’re somewhere where there’s a restaurant sis wants to go to OP doesn’t want then they find something else for themselves to eat for that specific meal etc .
NTA for the first three. The rhetorical argument didn't work in the first one, but it's not an unreasonable thing to point out. ESH (at least the adults) for the last one. They needed to discuss it before the invites went out, probably long before that. The daughter should be able to decide who she invites but I don't think it's unreasonable for the aunt to think the cousins attending should be an all or nothing thing. Maybe that ultimately means neither can attend, maybe a compromise can be reached where Emma is allowed to attend with close supervision so that the birthday girl feels comfortable, but the kids shouldn't be in the middle of it any more than necessary.
With the second one, I think it’s actually really simple. She wants to give the heirloom to her first grandchild. The stepchild joined the family at 14, so she’s only been OP’s granddaughter for 4 years. If she joined the family as a baby, before another child was born, that would be different, but as she came to family later, she is the eldest, but not the first grandchild, thus excluding her from that particular gift. That said, no one is owed anything, so OP should have been able to give the heirloom to whoever regardless without being criticised for it.
For the birthday party one, if I was OP, I think I'd actually start with a conversation with my daughter. I'd show that I totally understand where she's coming from and hear what she's saying. Then I'd find a way to ask if it was more important to her right now to 1) have the younger cousin there or 2) not have the older cousin there. From there, we'd invite either both or neither (and potentially plan a family birthday dinner or something)
Then, I'd have a parallel conversation with my sister (maybe with the details of the party, maybe more generic) about the bullying, but likely with the spin of "let's help our kids get along" rather than opening up the dialog by putting the blame on Emma (whether or not it's warranted) to keep her from immediately going on the defensive. Then we can be working on repairing that relationship in the background, and maybe the answer would be different next year.
___
I was often excluded from things as a kid that my sibling was invited to, and even if it wasn't out of malice/had a good reason behind it, it really made me feel alienated by my extended family.
I don't think siblings always have to be a package deal, but especially when they're younger and potentially have the same/similar interests, they should be as much as possible. And if they can't, finding an equal activity for the other one can help ease the negative feelings.
(I'm not yet a parent myself, so maybe my opinions will change with experience)
I like how shaaba is starting to get Assholes and Dramas confused
As someone in the US, there are TONs of restaurants with no healthy foods.
thank you so much for covering the heirloom story. it reminded me that i was gifted something by my mother when i graduated (I was the first in my direct family) that i can pass down to my oldest child for her's next month and create an heirloom. i may also get something for my son's in a few years so they each have something to pass on.
The healthy food story: they are most likely going to eat in a restaurant more than once, each should choose equal number of restaurats, or they can split for lunch. When traveling in a group, people have different food preferences, you do not base the choices only on one person
I've never felt like commenting about one of these before but that last one I have some thoughts. Note that I'm not a parent, and I might be *highly* overestimating the maturity a small child could possibly possess. But I think that there's nothing wrong with only inviting Trixie if that's who Carmen wants there. And the mature thing on Emma's end (or Anna's end even) would be to accept that sometimes people just don't want you places and get over it. Like even when I was a kid I feel like if I was told my sibling was invited and I was not for any number of reasons I'd have been completely understanding and fine with it. Nobody is owed an invitation to anything. Trixie is invited, Emma is not. I don't think you're ever really obligated to invite anyone to anything, and should instead just teach people to accept it if they're not invited to something. I'm sorry if I'm like hugely missing some social cues or something but I really don't agree with the idea that they should like try to make it even or make it so Emma doesn't feel excluded. Children or not, family or not. You're not invited, you're not invited. I don't think it makes much difference if she's a bully or not. She's not invited, teach her how to be okay with that. 🤷 If she would like to be invited next year she can aim to improve things with Carmen between now and then.
Oof the bday party one is rough. Our rule when i was little was that if you invite one sibling you have to invite the other so as not to hurt the other one's feelings or you invite neither and you walk the kid through the options. But also my mom was the aunt that made us peacekeep between my cousins who hated each other lately bc their moms hated each other
As someone who was forced to visit with a cousin every holiday who bullied and manipulated me - mainly because we were close to the same age (she's two years older? Or is it just a year?), I am on OP and her daughter's side in that birthday party story. I also had to spend all my holidays with that bully cousin because she was an only child with a single mom, so my parents felt the need to be good parental figures in her life (without actually being in her life in that way at all - they barely ever interacted with her - they just made themselves feel like they were doing something good by forcing me spend my school breaks with her and never considering or even asking me what I wanted) - it was awful. (I mean, that same cousin was separated from her mom by the courts when she was 15 because she would beat up my aunt, who was disabled - she had epilepsy and had had a couple strokes, so walked with a bit of difficulty, had a deformed/frozen hand, and slurred her speech; my cousin was ashamed of her and would take out her rage on her mom until my aunt finally called the police on her and she was forced to go live with relatives - until she kept running away and my aunt finally relented and had her come back home anyway, despite the restraining order. So you know, yeah, she was troubled, but she was a violent, mean bully all the same.)
And as adults, after I had lived in the US for a good chunk of time and returned to Canada, I thought perhaps she had moved on from being like that, since she was working steady jobs, had gotten married to her long-time boyfriend, and had had kids (I'll give her credit for being a really good mom - she absolutely adores her boys in a way she's never loved anyone else). She was also taking care of her mom right up until she had to go into a care home after a bad accident in her 50s, and aside from slight hints of resentment at times at having to do so, she seemed to really be doing a diligent job of taking care of her (with extended family's financial help, I later learned - wealthier relatives used a trust fund to finance the care home for my aunt).
But no, it took a few years for it to come out, but my cousin revealed herself to still be exactly the same in the end. After I simply turned down an invitation to visit once because we live over 2 hours apart and I didn't have a car at the time, she BLEW UP, called me all sorts of vile names, and completely cut me off (I should add: this was AFTER a time when she and her husband had offered to drive me and my now-ex home from another cousin's wedding in Ottawa, a 6-hour drive - and then ABANDONED US IN OTTAWA when they learned we weren't going to my parents' house (nearer to them), but to Toronto instead (they didn't want to leave the highway and/or drive in the city on the way home even though it was still on the way). We had flown to Ottawa for the wedding, so didn't have a car, and had to scramble during the weekend of the wedding and its craziness, and luckily another cousin was hitching a ride with a friend who happened to be in Ottawa and driving back to Toronto and had 2 extra seats - though that "friend" charged US for gas and still refused to drop us off at the place we were staying, so we had to lug huge suitcases on public transit for another 45 minutes to get there, despite having paid for the full tank of gas... ANYWAY, my bully cousin brought alllll that up in her rant, insisting the only reason I was refusing her invite was because they'd left me in Ottawa and it was really bitchy and petty of ME somehow to be holding that grudge, even though I'd never mentioned ANYTHING about it - this was SEVERAL years later - when, actually, my saying no was more because, again, I didn't have a car to get to her, AND she'd constantly flake on me if I *did* try to make plans, so I'd given up on her; the invite itself also felt icky because they were suddenly keen on connecting when they NEVER had been before after they found out I was working for Star Trek, which her (now ex-)husband is a big fan of...). When my aunt died a few years back, this bully cousin made it well known to the entire extended family I wasn't welcome at the funeral too (I hadn't been intending to go anyway - I didn't want to cause drama, and found a different way to honour my aunt).
All this to say - I find myself relieved OP didn't force her daughter to invite her bully cousin, even if inviting said bully's sister made things complicated. It really can't be that OP's sister has no clue how her daughter behaves, and forcing OP's daughter to invite her regardless is just cruel and reinforcing that the bully can keep behaving the way that she is. OP's daughter is NOT being mean by leaving her out of her party - she is inviting the people she actually wants to be there, and I wish I had had permission to do the same as a child; I still find it hard to do that. So I truly think OP and her daughter were NTA, and the bully cousin (and OP's sister) will just need to deal with and get used to her daughter being excluded if she's a bully, since that will mean NO ONE will like her or want her around.