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It Took Me A Long Time To Figure This Out (too much distortion)
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2024
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Distortion is one of the most used and useful sounds we have as guitar players, but how much is TOO much distortion?
Thanks to @andrewhuang for letting me use his (amazing) video on the Harmonic Series, check it out here:
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0:00 Intro
1:55 What Is Distortion?
3:45 The Harmonic Series & You
6:04 Compression From Clipping
9:50 Using Distortion In A Track
A great example of this is the first zeppelin record. It really shows how powerful your sound could be with less. In many moments on the record, the distortion is nowhere near what we as players hear and thus try to emulate.
Amen, James!! And Jimmy Page running a Tele into a Pignose amp that's about to blow up!! It wasn't always Les Paul's and Marshall's, etc.
@@ESP77769 Motherless Children's slide gtr part was thru a Pignose.
So, so true. Xlnt point we should all internalize
Also Try Molly Hatchet Beatin the Odds....brings out what real DISTORTION is, an AMP on the verge of breaking up
Yeah that record is a immovable top ten’r
Angus Young’s tone is a perfect example of lower gain sounding huge.
Malcolm even moreso.
Ironically, most modelling amps have an AC/DC sound that is way too high in gain.
Ah yes
it would be malcolm.
Pete Townshed / The who as well.
Rhett - I love this kind of "context sensitive" demonstration of fixing a tone for the mix. I would love to see more of this kind of stuff.
I'd love to see a similar video on reverb. Too much of it might sound great on its own, but like distortion it can remove definition and add mud to the tone in the context of a full mix.
This is a great video Rhett. I wonder how much of our tendency to add higher levels of gain has to do with how many of us record today. With more and more players playing at home at low volumes, it's really easy to lose sight of the fact that many of the records we love (especially live albums) were recorded at much higher volumes where the guitar tone got an assist from the amount of air being moved and helping the guitar sustain more. So when our tone lacks the same "energy" our first instinct is to add more gain or distortion. It does give us more sustain, but we lose clarity.
👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁
Some of the biggest rock tracks were actually played on very small amps. Layla was played on a Fender Champ. Little amps can sound big and allow you to use much better but sometimes more fragile mics. Things like ribbon mics would never take the punishment of a Marshall stack.
It's not about gain, its about frequency. Hence, a fuzz vs a 5150II. The fuzz is what the video's author says is not good, where a 5150II, crunch switch in, is what he says it 'clean', and 'good'. Seems quite silly, and absolute...to sell a product.
Shame context is ignored for, 'less pre-amp be more gooder, regardless of the guitar/song/band/venue/speakers/etc...'
Please, tell Ted Nugent his 5150 is, 'too much distortion'.
Jim Lill made a great video called "the one thing every influential guitar tone has in common". In that video he took samples of his guitar directly in front of a cranked Marshall half stack and samples of his guitar not in the presence of loud volumes. When he played the sound files back of the 2 recorded guitars you could not hear any difference between the two guitar parts. Psychologically it might make you play different, but you could not hear the difference on the recorded guitar part
For me, on your original play clip you have too much low frequencies going into the distortion which make it a bit of a mess. It would sound fine with the same distortion set on the amp and less bass on the settings. Actually when you cut the bass frequencies the saturation on the preamp stage also drops a bit.
Or just slap a Tube screamer in front of it with the drive on zero, volume on 10, and tone set to 2 oclock, boom fits right in the mix and sounds great.
I agree
Thanks to you, I started using "edge of breakup" in my playing. A little really does go a long way.
Did too, the result is immediate : when playing gigs I started getting compliments from other guitarists (better than me) on my tone, and that's quite a feeling
Less is Really More.
@@danabiondo9243
But here it doesn't sound good at all!
@@DerEchteBold Edge of breakup is a starting point foundation! Add your choice of effects to build the sound. Ex. Guitar-flanger-compressor-clean boost-amp-fx loop-chorus-delay-reverb. Could always add, a couple of more bells & whistles. There are no set rules.
@@jonathandanielmartinez2949
Hmm... but if you see it like that, instead of improving something that lacks in sound you would usually want to start with something that sounds good already, right!?
Well, to me this doesn't at all.
That riff is ready to sell some serious trucks!
Haha coming to a Ford commercial near you
(Deep voice) “Are you a middle class suburbanite looking to compensate for the fact that you’ve never worked a blue collar job in your life? Are you trapped in a sexless marriage while suffering from ED? Reclaim your manhood with the all new 2023 gas guzzler…” *guitar riff*
It's all about the vibe you're going far and of course personal taste. I actually preferred the heavy version over the cleaned up version, but at the same time, to me, it isn't like one is vastly better than the other.
I preferred the heavier riff too. It sounded a lot more pleasing to my ears compared to the cleaned up version.
@@kal-el4781I would choose somewhere in the half way of the two:)
Love the comments. This is why music is awesome. I'm digging Gary Clark Jr. one night, and TOOL the next.
a balance of higher and lower gain is a good option. i feel like the higher gain prs for the chunk with the lower gain novo to preserve the sparkle and definition would be a good balance.
same
Jimmy Page was a master of the interplay of instruments in rock music. When you hear just the guitar on an epic track such as Immigrant Song, it doesn't sound all that impressive on its own, but when paired with Jones' bass and Bonham's drums underneath it, it sounds freaking MASSIVE. Page really understood how the bass and drums and guitar all served the riffs and the songs.
Yes, that’s correct. People don’t understand when I tell them Page plays cleaner than they think.
@@marions.120 Great point. I was always amazed how clean Page played live back in the 70’s versus what my ear was hearing on the record
@@jeffwheeler3504 -Crazy isn’t it?
A Musical Genius !
@@jeffwheeler3504 A lot of times what you hear on the record is studio distortion from having gone through the transformer(s) at the mixing desk. There's an interview somewhere with Angus (or one of them) talking about how much more guitar distortion is on the final recording than what they're actually using.
I learned this from Ola Englund. When trying to dial in a good rhythm metal tone, try to use as little gain as possible to get your sound, then cut it back just a little for recording. It allows for more dynamics and responds to you digging into the strings for heavy chugs!
Yeeee
I play rock and metal so I’m fine with “too much” distortion. The trick is to turn down bass and turn up the mids. 🤘😄
That is very true
When play with a band, even in metal the principle is valid. Having high distortion you easily lose definition. Also what sounds good alone or in your bedroom, is not the same in a full band or recording situation. Less bass, more mids and barely treble combined with not very high distortion always kicks!!! I have tried in rehearsal room with the band at "playing" volume.
A lot of reviews of distortion (in fact great) pedals/modelers on youtube, shows almost full distortion setup, but in real life that specific pedal doesn't sound as good as they pretend and you can get the best going to max 1/2 o'clock with the distortion. This video it's a good starting point: the sound in the room, alone, versus in a full mix/recording!!!
@@sunrise2982 - Cool story, bro.
"Gain"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
~ Inigo Montoya
Couple of takeaways: Doesn't matter so much how or what you used to get the sound you're after - but once you have a sound you like, know how you got it / and how to replicate it: Always listen to your guitars in the band mix - what sounds great alone may have frequency clash or clarity issues; Trust your ears!
Yes! Most guitarists always want their inst. to sound like a live setup when they record instead of finding its place in the mix. I almost always drop out the low end unless the guitar is playing on its own.
If you mix layer distortion back to front, heavy distortion sans added compression goes in the back, & the cleanest goes in front with added light compression/peak limiting as needed. Combined the sound will be huge while retaining dynamics.
This I am writing in my book of stuff to try out!
What do you mean by "back to front" here? Volume levels? Or placing them in a "space" by making the guitar in the "back" have more reverb than the on in the front?
@@jorgemartinez42069 Could be accomplished more than one way. The most simple is just volume mixing, but you can get more depth if record with depth to begin with. You get depth by microphone placement in the the space & microphone selection. You can also flip it around. Oh, you need a really good space/room. I digress. Put the distortion in front & the clean in back. To me reverb is like compression. Really don't want it all over the place. But ymmv. Whatever works.
@@jorgemartinez42069 I understand him to mean front as earlier in the signal chain & back as later. The guitar in ft. amp in back as the signal flows.I could be wrong bc. it threw me at first.
I understood the original comment perfectly (in my mind). All the responses got weirder and more complicated. Lol I’ll stick to what I “thought” I understood. Haha
Excellent video Rhett.....Well explained. Took me years to figure this out. I remember mastering at the Record Plant and wondering why my guitar was getting buried in the mix. It was to late to go back to Studio D to track. EQ was my only friend at that point and every session I did past that our producer (Bill Cutler) reminded me to use my gain sparingly to stand out in the blanket of the other stringed insturments. These small classes your putting out are great and look forward to the next.
Cheers Dave
I'm curious what that riff would have sounded like with one guitar running the heavy gain and the other one with the cleaner setting. I kind of liked the sound of the chords better on the heavy takes and the single-note riffs slightly more on the cleaner setting. Maybe a combination of the two would be the best of both worlds?
I've done this before and it definitely works. Another way to get an articulate and also thick guitar sound is to take a DI track along with a high gain track and then mix the two together, with or without some kind of re-amping or amp emulation on the DI track. The DI track is maximum clean, dynamic range, and articulation. The gain track is kind of the opposite. Combined with good EQ decisions made on the gain track and maybe some compression on the DI track, along with good mixing for the rest of the sounds, this really can be a best-of-both-worlds sound, as long as the music calls for it. I have long preferred to both double track and double amp guitars, giving me four total guitar tracks (guitar 1 amp 1, guitar 1 amp 2, guitar 2 amp 1, guitar 2 amp 2). You can always mute one of the amp sounds if it's really wrong, but I find mixing two different sounds for each part gives me a lot of ways to fix or enhance the guitar tracks. Plus if you want that wide stereo sound of double tracked guitars panned left and right, having the separate amp sounds for each part let you be even wider!
I've found this (overlaying a cleaner sound over a thicker/heavier sound) works well. It doesn't even sound like two layers, just adds clarity to the fuzzier layer.
This is critical to good sound in a band live. Bedroom sound is one thing. I gig regularly in a few bands. Over the years I have constantly dialed back the gain more and more. It's amazing how little I play with now and get the best tone ever. And I don't get lost in the mix!
I actually liked BOTH guitar tones and agree on both fronts because I've always thought the guitar's tone should fit the song. Imagine 'War Pigs' without Tony Iommi's sludgy, thick tone or Santana's 'Black Magic Woman" without the singing sustain. Both of those legendary examples would likely not be the the classic sounds many of us know and love. I believe what matters more is what you're trying to achieve within the overall sound of the song. I do agree that less gain can make a guitar part stand out, but I also think it's worth looking at what you're trying to achieve with the song itself. Many legendary guitarists achieved their heaviness through production rather than gain and there are countless examples of that anywhere you care to listen. Nice CE too, Rhett!
One of the best and clearest lead on the path of understanding distortion. Hats off.
I was once told: The more notes/strings you are playing at once, the less gain you need to use.
Absolutely true
Great tip for getting a crisp and thick heavily distorted tone within a mix: double the part with a clean acoustic with heavy strings and keep it panned in sync with the heavy guitar so they blend well, cutting a bit off the low end EQ on the acoustic. The percussive sound of the acoustic strings plus the crisp upper harmonics makes the distorted guitar sound absolutely massive and allows the notes in the riff to stand out
Whoa. That's an awesome idea. I use a lot of chunk when i record. My method has always been to put a tiny bit of chorus or phaser on. Can't wait to give that a shot.
This is something I love about the Klon. It's "enough" distortion. But it's not capable of giving you too much. Sometimes, practicing alone in my room, it is unsatisfying. But in any actual context, it's plenty.
As an audio engineer I learned so much about exactly what you were talking about rhett. A lot of it is just phase cancellation and EQ and frequencies and it's all compression and left right up down forward backwards that's what's so cool about engineering a record is you can place things because of all those things and that certainly has a huge impact on what is in front of the mix what is behind the mix etc .......thank you rhett for your channel, it's very informative I always love watching you because you tackle things in a way that keeps it very interesting.
SRV, AC/DC, and even Sleep are great examples of how volume is power. Power amp gain and speaker breakup are essential elements of ‘heavy’
been watching your channel for years but this.. this is it. great job Rhett
Great video, this is one of the most important lessons I’ve learned about dialing in my sound. Even metal players like Matt Pike from Sleep talk about how they really just use a medium overdrive sound.
Excellent video. Extremely helpful. I feel like didn’t realize that “less is more” until I started gigging . You will suddenly figure out that what worked well in your bedroom, doesn’t translate well in a live band mix. Plus, I always remember that Dave Friedman once said “the greats don’t actually use a lot of distortion”.
To me that's why I use a lot the volume knob to control not only the volume but the gain in first place. I found more pleasant sounds with volume rolled at 2/3 .
The band mix is always a sum of everybody .....so if you try to cover too much spectrums (bassy/trebly/midrangy) you gonna be 'eaten' whole by other instruments that run on their peculiar eq segment.
Find your spot and don't overdo it.
I found really instructive the video posted on living gear demos about Josh Homme tone chasing . Low gain high volume. That's how you get so "surgical " in a band mix (of course EQing the right bands)
“My best RAM trucks commercial riff”
You mean The Black Keys?
Being a rock metal player. I've been discovering over time that, the heavy tones are indeed the ones that are much more clean than you think. I use a Mesa Mark III for all my Thrashy stuff, and I always leave the gain on 4 and no more.
About 20 years ago, i was using a small home recording 4 track and just split my humbucker and ran it with the mid pickup and turned the bass down - the sound went from small distorted and tight to huge. This distorted sound is choking the amp badly - the entire attack vanishes. You can get non choked heavy sounds and they can sound quite nice but I prefer them in combination with a overdrive partner to provide some dynamics and space. Reverb is the other killer - taking up all breathing space.
Already really liked your videos. But I gotta say your production value has just continued to improve to a seriously top shelf level. Really appreciate all your hard work.
It really all depends on your style of music and preference. I personally would've gone with the heavier riff cuz I just love that heavy saturated tone but the clean riff is great if you love the dynamic and twangy sound.
I get annoyed with that twangy sound. Lol. Overused and too soft.
Malcolm Young had the best rhythm sound and was mostly a clean sound, but then Angus would have a more crunchy sound which complemented his brothers sound- which made the ultimate ACDC sound!!!
Yep. Malcolm's sound was partly through playing heavier gauge strings and using a harder picking technique - he wasn't afraid to dig those chords.
Love Malcom's sound. Spot on with how those 2 complement each other.
Most of my overdrives are volume all the way up and gain barely on and it just stacks a little bit of color every time I hit on the next pedal and it’s awesome
I didn't know how to set my amp until I played in the studio. Boy was that ever an Ah-Ha moment. Your guitar will sound SOOOO much better if you just back that gain down. You are a little more naked in terms of playing cleanly. But,....you get so much more of a nuanced and articulate tone. If there's to much gain/distortion,....it will overload your guitars frequency and personality. Even a subtle reduction in gain will surprise you. In the studio,....the way my tone was at the time,....it sounded like pure chaos and unusable. Great video Rhett.
You are right and I get what you're saying, but I prefer the heavier sound.
Yeah it sounded way better. It had more guts and sounded more exciting to my ears. Definition is great but it isn't everything- sometimes you want it, but it depends on the effect you're going for. 1st clip rocked harder
Also makes a massive difference if the backing track matches guitars that are heavier.
Just like saying your guitar doesn’t have enough gain and putting a clean channel in front of death metal rhythm.
Yeah I think the other thing to consider is that so many bands, especially in punk and grunge, went into the studio and used maximum distortion because they were coming from a place of less experience in a generation that had access to higher distortion. The result may be dirty and messy, but that means it gives listeners a different impression - not a better or worse impression. And nowadays it has been normalized enough that it is a completely acceptable option.
The value in knowing the difference is being able to decide whether the sound you are looking for requires more or less gain.
This took me to my high school times where I turn all the knobs of my MT2 up all the way.
I think the threshold should be wherever you can hear every note in the chord. This threshold shifts depending on the chords you play; I use 7th chords a lot so I tend to play cleaner (a fender twin at 6-8 is my happy place) but as Rhett pointed out more gain sounds awesome with power chords. So basically use however much gain you think sounds good, but remember that you already know what the chords are; the audience doesn't. Make sure they can hear them
Unless you want a big wall of something, I dub guitars with a LOT of fuzz and use them as "beds" for the "heavy" guitars (not that distorted at all) and it does wonders filling those small gaps below the band, kind of like using synths or organs for the same purpose
Well said!
one thing i love doing is double-tracking a guitar tone with too much gain, hard panning the tracks, and then layering on top with a lightly crunched telecaster playing the same riff straight down the middle. the over-overdriven sound tones are intended to get buried, usually i mid-scoop them pretty heavily because their purpose is mainly just to act as a low rumble and a high fizz over the bright clear main guitar sound. its great for when i want to give the impression of a sludgy grungy blown out sound, but still maintain a clear articulation
This was very helpful for me. Thanks. More videos about how to track in this mindset would be fantastic.
👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁
I like the Heavy version better and I still think that needed more distortion.
I want to smash this video with an ole 90s Peavy.... 🤣
Judging by your handle, I'd guess your taste in music is probably a bit different than Rhett's and thus would lean more towards the distortion side with metal and then rely on other techniques with EQ and such to make space for the wall of sound that hyper distorted guitars produce.
@@jorgemartinez42069 Correct.
interestingly, but I liked the fuzzy sound better. Good video btw
Finally someone that explains the relationship of base tone/note and harmonics properly, thank you.
This is why reamping can be great. You can dial in enough distortion to feel comfortable and then reamp with a lot less to fit in the mix better. It's like singing and Reverb.
This is great, Rhett. Now, can you please do one on how reverb on guitar works in the context of a band?
I guess it really depends on what you're going for. I have found your advice to be true, but sometimes more is more (like Malmsteen would say)
Listen to Fu Manchu's "King of the Road" for a master class in fuzz and heavy distortion. Just killer stuff.
Oh wow - another fantastic video Rhett. I refer to this phenomenon as “buzz” or “whomp” where the distortion sounds great to your naked ear, ‘crushing from the amp’ but no amount of mic placement, compression or engineering trickery can make is pop out in a recording. All you wind up hearing is a swishing buzz of distortion… losing all note, chord and guitar definition. Worse, this also happens when you play live. Sure you think that your are ripping power chords and solos, meanwhile your guitar is so saturated in the live mix no one hears what you are actually playing. It took me a long a while to learn this but if you want to cut through less distortion is the way to go. Live, I use a signal booster instead of more distortion. I spend time in sound check coming up with a solid distortion tone, I make sure it’s simple and clean to the ear. Than when I need to cut through the mix I pop that signal booster on and rip right through the live band mix. It’s a simple trick but more signal and less distortion always works for me. Also, the louder I’m playing, the less distortion I use. I back off, letting the amp do it’s thing and only pushing it when I need to.
Great video! The entire time I was thinking about Siamese Dream. Billy Corgan has mentioned how when he was telling/showing Butch Vig how he wanted the guitars to sound on the record, Butch was like “No way” that’s too hard to record and get it to sound good. But that’s the sound they wanted (huge fuzz through Marshall amps TIMES TWO). Dave Onarato was apparently around the studio when that record was being recorded in Atlanta and he and Rick Beato keep threatening to do a video about it and I’m still anxiously awaiting!
I noticed this phenomenon, or whatever you want to call it, years ago on Led Zeppelin recordings; As a kid listening to Zeppelin I always 'heard' the guitar parts as heavily over-driven; but as I got more experienced, and developed a more critical ear, and then later was able to hear the tracks soloed, I was surprised by how often the distortion level was a lot less than I'd imagined... And as in Rhett's example, often it was the many layers of guitar tracks that created that huge gritty sound. Jimmy Page demonstrated tremendous sophistication in guitar tone/recording, especially when you consider how long ago it was, and how limited their tools were then, compared to now...
In my opinion, heavier settings sounded better for this specific track but I get the point. Sometimes, lower gain tones sound a lot bigger because you're left with more space in the mix. Btw, you also can't go wrong with a PRS whatever tone u choose :) Great video!
Yeah it sounded like a fuzz which was pretty cool
And once again - Less is More! Thanks a lot for this very helpful demonstration! What a huge difference!
Classic rock and blues rock musicians like Hendrix, Clapton, Page used less distortion (generally) to give their instruments more clarity. It also pronounced the unique character of their guitars. They usually just cranked the volume on the amp or put a simple fuzz in front of it.
And then bands like Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins etc. used a boatload of multi tracks of 11'd shrill distortion to give the song a texture of heaviness instead of a pronounced guitar sound.
It all depends on the desired effect and aesthetics because both can be heavy. But it's a great and important advice nonetheless because it's very very true that heaviness doesn't come from distortion alone!
The laughter from metal players is thunderous.
As a metal player the max gain i have ever used is 7
@@alluringskull2133 On all amps, ever?
I mean yes and no. The problem isn’t necessarily the gain it’s the eq and the gain combined. You can leave that same gain structure and eq differently to get a much better sound. This only really matters when you play both clean and distorted and switch between. Kinda tells me you don’t get high gain sounds. If you’re a hard rock player and don’t play clean this advice is going to give you a headache. Jerry Cantrell isn’t turning down the gain, trust me.
its nice to have a better understanding of it. Thanks
Excellent video. I’d add a little extra information, which is key in this particular case with that kind of amp: by dialing back the gain, you’re reducing the amount of bass frequencies getting distorted more so than the mid and treble frequencies. By doing so, you’re therefore getting a less fuzzy type of overdrive (the fuzz face peculiarity is the full amount of bass frequencies getting clipped) and a more precise overdrive tone.
👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎸🎁
I have a question, that tone in the beginning was pretty good, so can’t you just mix the entire track differently to make it fit? Like Hendrix had a ton of gain from his fuzz, and Kurt contain had a literal ds1 with ear bleeding gain and it sounds amazing??? So I don’t really understand why you can’t just mix it differently
Why change the mix? The initial version sounds great as it is!
It’s what you want out of the tone. Personally I thought it sounded great heavy. Most metal heads use incredibly distorted tones. But that’s not necessarily always pleasing.
If you do what to mix it to sound better, I would recommend cutting some of the low end frequencies and then putting a transient designer to strengthen the attack.
Dude that amp is producing fuzz without a pedal. PRS nailed it with that thing
Thanks Rhett for this video. I learned a lot in 15 minutes. I'm a metal guy so the more gain the better but I totally get what you're trying to show us here. I'll go to bed more informed tonight so thank you :)
There’s a lot of interplay between sounds and distortion characteristics. One of the things you have to understand is that “clipping “ means part of the signal is removed. Exactly what part varies, but almost always you lose a big chunk of the attack transience, because this is the loudest part of any note played on a vibrating string.
This leads to desired effects like giving the guitar a “singing” quality-better sustain without murderous attacks. It also causes undesirable effects, like muddy sound, particularly on chords, because lots of strings produce more signal than one string, which increases clipping making the effect more dramatic.
The Fletcher-Munson curve exacerbates this too, since more gain = more volume in the room but not necessarily on the recording.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
A very common "sound issue" that I have heard a lot of great players have is to play really distorted parts with POUNDS and POUNDS of delay and reverb. No!!! Stop it!!
Next Video Plz: You're Probably Using Too Much Reverb (and it sounds bad)
Yes!! And delay!
I really like mixing different levels of gain with double tracking. But always do what fits the song.
The key component is volume. Volume compresses sound. So the louder you play the less dirty gain you need. The solution is to use overdrive pedals that boost output mostly. Just keep stacking them and use that in combination with the clean gain on the amp until it's right.
Some of my favorite metal albums use a less gain than you think. Less gain and more layers create that huge sound.
a lot less*
Actually, I think that guitar sound at the beginning sounds atrocious; no bite, no power, flabby all around. I wouldn't listen to any record that sounded like that.
There's an aesthetic for the blown-out dimed sound you dialed in first, but typically very middy guitar is used so often because it just works better, like you showed. I remember tracking a funny song for a writing competition and instead of using my huge pedalboard and gain pedals, I just dialed my little VC15 amp to be super middy and high gain. By itself it wasn't my favorite "bedroom tone", but in the mix it totally rips and left a good amount of space for the vocals.
I realized why 15 years ago, when I looked up how to emulate Adam Jones' massive guitar sound, it was something like bass 3, mids 8, treble 5. "Wait this sounds thinner than how I set my amps up..." I thought back then when playing it alone. I'm not the whole band! And some amount of transients are good!
Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you 🎊👆👆🎉
Absolutely right. Figured that out myself. 2 examples: when I play along with records, alone in my practice room with lots of distortion, I added an Orange PPC212 to produce more bass. The TripleRec and VHT/Fryette FatBottom without the extra cab sounded too thin to my ears. Glorious sound when you’re standing in front of it. But on rehearsal, I don’t need to bother with the 212. The VHT cab is all I ever need. Btw EQ on the Mesa is at 12 o’clock except for the treble at 2. The gain is on 3 o’clock. More just takes away the dynamics. Also I use the rectifier setting, not the solid state rectifier. Why have a triple rectifier if you’re not using them, right? 😉
Second example is from years back. I bought a bucket list guitar, an Ibanez K7 Korn signature guitar (the Munky one). I tried it on my then only amp: a Marshall 2210 JCM800 in an old Orange 4x12. Well that didn’t go well. Sound was all muddy and dark, no treble at all. The guitar is in drop A btw. So I decided to get the TripleRec through the same cab to get a more defined sound, with success! Lots of gain can be tricky.
Man I miss my old FatBottom cab. It sounded soooo good.
You should try a Fryette Pittbull through that cab to hear the best god damned tone in the universe.
This was really good Rhett. This is the exact reason why I subscribe to your channel. having said that, there is so much truth to this. I always find myself backing off the distortion when I record, but having it full on when I jam alone.
I’ve been dialing back the gain on my amp in a band setting thanks to your advice on this in several of your videos. Clarity out of my rig is vastly improved, and it even gives me more flexibility with EQ’ing the lows/mids/highs. Still, I do like that compressed, high gain growl. I wonder if you put all 4 tracks in together, with the high gain tracks at a lower volume??? Best of both worlds 😀????
I have found no matter how much tweaking I do on my own, the final adjustments happen during soundcheck/first song of the show. What sounds perfect in your house by itself goes out the window in a full band setting.
Took me years to get this right. Started playing guitar and was into thrash metal and cranked up my gain as I learned to play the guitar. Fast forward some years and my skills improves but I always was chasing a tone I could never get, so I added more gain lol. Later I started lowering the gain to get dynamics and finally found “the tone” I had been searching for for years. Lower your gain!
I love seeing RUclipsrs I love shouting out other RUclipsrs I love!!! Lots of love to you and Andrew!
My experience is that when you achieve the maximum distortion possible while retaining clarity, then it's time to add compression only. That way it keeps the articulation and clarity while boosting the sound in a more pleasant way.
Important message for a lot of guitarist and producers. I'm like yourself in that I had to learn this myself after years of playing and recording. I'm now 60 and have my own studio with everything from Friedman amps to Jim Kelly and Saturation levels are huge. I think the message might have gotten across even better if we could have heard the PRS dirty against say the same riff on a Marshall JCM 800. The JCM does not have to be overdriven much at all and it always sounds enormous. But if you had done that then the PRS would have looked a bit thin and silly and that wouldn't have been fair to Paul.
I enjoy your shows...
It is quite interesting to play along to the tracks you are learning, after practicing and trying to find the tone in isolation. I ALWAYS realize I have way too much gain dialed in. Whenever I have longer stints of playing alone, my gain usage goes up, but in times I get to play more live I always have to dial back the gain for it to sound correct. I just never seem to learn though😅
My signal chain is all about push tho. I'm a fuzzes go last guy:
CS-3 > Sansamp Classic > SD-1 > Angry Charlie v3 > HM-2W > DS-1 > Plumes.
Those go into the Fuzzes, primarily my JHS Muffuletta, Twin Bender, or Mastotron.
The SD-1 all the way to the Plumes are boosts. Boosting through the Plumes can give some serious headroom to any prior drives boosting. You'll need to tweak down the Saturation on the Fuzz accordingly.
What might sound even cooler is to put a Sparkle Drive or a Moonshine in front with the gain dimed but the clean blend up. Good stuff. Great video.
Yeah that's the effect of playing alone versus playing in conjunction. Alone we often find ourselves ramping up effects to sound more full/thick but that's rarely necessary in a full-tange band.
Your playing and that amp sounds amazing. Just superb. Keep using it.
I kinda prefer the heavier one. It’s a little OTT, but back it off a touch and it sounds much more beefy than the cleaner version. But I’m sure this was over emphasised for the sake of the video. Great demonstration of how this effects the final mix.
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I prefer the heavier one too. He just needs to boost the midrange and cut the bass a bit. 🎸
I'm a blues player that play hardcore/metalcore music. For several years, I've been running my Dual Rectifier with no boost, Fishman fluence pups, and amp gain at 50% and it works out so well. Turn the volume pot down on my guitar and I have a light crunch clean tone. My tone knob turned slightly down throughout, until I dime both during a heavier part like a chorus, and I love my tone. It's so easy to record, and fits well in the mix, and actually helps my drummer hear me easier. Playing with other guitarists, even those that use mesa, I clearly here a difference in my tone versus theirs.
This works in the context of looping too. Adding layers with different sound dynamics adds to the overall loop and if you duplicate tones in layers it can drown out or get muddy pretty quickly.
When we mix, we adjust volume based on resonant peaks. A cleaner guitar has a greater db distance from the peaks to the toughs so it leaves room for other instruments to cut through. Honestly, the fully distorted sound worked better for the style of music. A good engineer would make the appropriate room for other instruments in the mix.
So yes you always need less distortion than you think, but this video is an extreme example. The correct amount for that style of riff was somewhere between the two.
I picked up this amp a week ago and I have never been happier with my sound. It's sick
Nice back to basics and the nutz and bolt of what we already have! Ty can we have a series that takes you to featured home studios! I would love to see you venturing into others realms to glean with glee!
This isn't IMO so much a too much distortion thing but a amp setting, mix thing and style of music thing. The isolated single track is muddy and the amp clearly isn't one that excels at high gain levels. If this was a distortion thing nobody would record with 5150's, Engls recto's and such. This is a good example for low mid gain. He does mention at the end that that sound needs to fit the part you're playing. But one could take a 5150 and play that same part and make it clear and big with loads of gain.
I've tried dialing in a favorite riff tone before and my ear-memory is always way off when I compare it to the original favorite. Like dialing in a Back In Black tone, then A-B'ing it with the original. The original is always way cleaner than I remember.
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Fantastic video Rhett!
Love how you went through the physics of sound as well, as it is very important to learn in order to really understand what's going on in music when it comes to mixing, arranging, and trying to manipulate sound.
I do think that the amp itself plays a huge role in this as well. Some amps fall apart if pushed too much, but high-gain amps (Mesa Mark Series, EVH 5153 etc.) that are designed to handle higher amounts of distortion can be turned up to 10 with no loss in clarity or low end flub out since the tone stack can help tame all of that. Wattage/clean headroom so that's another major factor. My trick is to find the sweet spot and work from there. There's also the whole pre-amp gain vs power-amp consideration as well.
So many areas to explore, and factors to consider!
Brilliant video Rhett! Very informative.
Thanks for this Rhett. In Context is the key....I was trying many lead sounds just in the room on my new Kemper stage and just like you conclude, the best ones don't sound the best in the mix. Too much distortion is bad. Some people are really just caught up in distortion....Great where needed and where it makes sense musically. Not a one size fits all. Great video.
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This is how I dial in my amps and pedals most of the time. I often use overdrives more like boosts to maintain enough articulation on and between notes or chords. Then if I need it, I have one overdrive with enough gain on tap via dip switches to really push it.
Often discussed, rarely demonstrated so well. Thanks, Rhett! Learning to turn the gain down when appropriate was an absolutely game changer! That Pedal Show is other channel that also demonstrate this idea.
Also, love that CE22.
Cheers!
Another cool trick is to add a doubled bright acoustic guitar mirroring your electric parts. Sounds odd I know, but an open ‘secret’ of much of Pete Townshend’s recorded sound - live as well since he’s been using a piezo in his strat bridges.
If you mix so the acoustic is ‘just below the surface’ so you can’t really hear it as a distinct voice, use the same stereo placement too, all you get from it is that acoustic definition being added into the electric sound. Try it!
I always learn something watching your videos. The bonus I’m entertained as well.
your shows are jam packed with intelligent method and concise
information rhett ! great to see your level of applied experience
yet still having fun doing it your way ,its always time well spent. 👍
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Yes! Loud, dirty AND clear. As in Rock AND Roll.
Rhett, please let me add something that you didn't mention about lesser amounts of gain and distortion. The parts may sound cleaner because the signal chain doesn't get handed so much in the way of "handling noise." When you damp the strings on a guitar being gained up too much, you can wind up with harmonics leaking through when you're trying to damp the strings. Lowering the gain allows you to damp the strings more completely, cutting down on the amount of extraneous noise that can get into your recorded signal.
I used to run into this problem when playing Prince's "Why U Wanna Treat Me So Bad." I would play the power chords with so much gain that I couldn't mute them as fast as I needed to. I would get natural harmonics that I didn't want; I wanted quiet. When I turned the gain or the guitar volume down, that problem disappeared! Took me years to figure out, though.
Spot on. As a much younger man I remember someone telling me to really listen to a lot of the guitar sounds I love and think about how little drive or distortion they actually have. After you realize that, it just becomes an eq question.
That tone you played, in the beginning, is perfectly workable though. Some high pass filtering, notching out 3-4 frequencies, some glue reverb, and it'll fit right in.
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