I don't mean to say that the community underrates Thrasios but, thank you for CONSISTENTLY being an advocate for my boi 😭 I'll try have to try this deck out if I play cedh. Thanks for sharing ❤
Etali is an excellent second main phase win con. If you’re not casting an infinite Finale in your first main to win through combat damage, you’re probably trying to loop lightning bolt. If any of those pieces in the lightning bolt combo are gone/exiled, then Etali is a perfect fallback plan to bounce with temur sabertooth, cloudstone, or kitten.
I’ve been brewing a very similar list for awhile. I leaned a little more into neoform and birthing pod lines but this one seems much stronger. Not having seedborn is crazy.
Some people say "paying 4 mana to draw a card is bad." But like you said, being able to focus on making infinite mana instead of needing a payoff makes the deck a lot more streamlined. You find what you need to win faster, you're harder to disrupt, and you recover really fast. If you're not going for a win at the moment, it turns your mana into cards. It even helps you bluff having nothing (Thrasios passios) so you can EZone and win at instant speed out of nowhere. And if they kill your commanders, you have the mana to recast them.
@@RebellSon CEDH is mainstream! Woop woop! I thought Matt Sperling was an outlier, but I guess not. Seeing magic pros take an interest in our format just warms my heart :)
I think i missed something, why are the basics important? Sprawl just needs a forest not a basic forest, wild growth and fertile ground are any land, what did i miss?
Once you establish infinite bouncing with HbH or curio lines, you can bolt someone then eternal witness bolt back in hand. Or recast Etali infinitely. Whatever works
My question is what is the real advantage of Rograkh over Dargo? I see a couple cards which get better with Roger (Fierce Guardianship, Deflecting Swat, Mox Amber, and Springleaf Durm) which can increase your turn 1 consistency, but don't the lines get more convoluted without Dargo?
Most of the lines are simpler with Rograkh, with anything that likes free creatures, and you can get him out T1 100% of the time. Cloudstone Curio becomes easy to create a loop. Sac inputs are easily active. Fierce/Swat are immediately active. Mana generators like Relic of Legends are immediately active. Cradle immediately generates mana (so you could even keep a hand with just Cradle!) Dargo combos require more cards to be active, Dargo doesn't help you T1, and can be difficult to turn into mana.
I think it's crazy to play barrin over sabertooth if you are on cloud of faeries. If you where just on the dockside plan I could see it, but having one of your main bouncers not work with your second mana positive creatures is a bit wierd.
But why not Kraum instead? Gives you some insane lines with deadeye navigator and hullbreaker horror, while also being you know, a better card than rograkh
Rograkh makes the deck play much much faster with Mox Amber, springleaf drum, Jeskas will (if you play it), etc. and turns on your free interaction quicker (fierce + deflecting swat). I play this deck and it’s more turbo, where Kraum is more midrange. Not to mention Rograkh is a much better card for neoform, eldritch evolution (right into dockside), and makes your dockside+ cloudstone curio line super easy with a 0 drop in the command zone
I remember seeing and building the original iteration of this deck Sam Black posted about a while ago, and have loved it ever since. Now seeing the latest variations and heading yours and Sam’s thoughts on the updated list, makes me want to update the version I have so badly. Amazing video, as always!
How relevant is that Generous Ent is a creature? If it’s getting a land X% of the time (and then doing nothing else as far as I can tell?), what should X be before it should just be another fetch?
theres a few things i really dislike about sam's list including ent and lorien. they are simply 60 card cards and arent very good in cedh, sure you can pay 5 mana and draw 3 or island cycle. but like, its such bad card quality over something more explosive
Once you've established infinite mana you can do whatever you want. You draw up to whatever you need, then Lightning Bolt the table finitely by casting Bolt, playing Eternal Witness to pick up the Bolt, then use one of the many engines to infinitely bounce E-Witt like Cloudstone Curio + Rog / Hullbreaker Horror + Rog + E Witt. You can also exile everyone's library with Etali by infinitely bouncing and recasting Etali instead of bolt. Also infinite mana Finale of Devastation all your creatures and attack works.
Emap can be played turn 1, is colorless, can find boseiju to hand to destroy something, and this deck used to be on urza’s saga. Scrying is easier to counter, and while e map is 3 mana in total, forcing 2 on the stack is harder than 1.
U say there ways to make inf. Mana whit relic + rog… how ? Also u say i wont go into how all the smal combo work, its a Waste of time: no.. i would love that 😊
thank you, like rograhk gives mana, thras likes mana, no brainer, cloudstone loops, you can even HARD CAST memes like dispacer kitten into etali, t2 seedborne. jeska doesnt synergize and rog eldritch into 2's is actually really nice for tutor consistency in colors that struggle.
Updated Deck Guide posted on Patreon now!
www.patreon.com/posts/103743187
As it turns out Kinnan with Dockside is good
I don't mean to say that the community underrates Thrasios but, thank you for CONSISTENTLY being an advocate for my boi 😭
I'll try have to try this deck out if I play cedh. Thanks for sharing ❤
Etali is an excellent second main phase win con.
If you’re not casting an infinite Finale in your first main to win through combat damage, you’re probably trying to loop lightning bolt. If any of those pieces in the lightning bolt combo are gone/exiled, then Etali is a perfect fallback plan to bounce with temur sabertooth, cloudstone, or kitten.
I’ve been brewing a very similar list for awhile. I leaned a little more into neoform and birthing pod lines but this one seems much stronger.
Not having seedborn is crazy.
Dyude I’ve been looking for something like this for forever this list looks so sick
Rebell ur my 🐐
Some people say "paying 4 mana to draw a card is bad." But like you said, being able to focus on making infinite mana instead of needing a payoff makes the deck a lot more streamlined.
You find what you need to win faster, you're harder to disrupt, and you recover really fast. If you're not going for a win at the moment, it turns your mana into cards. It even helps you bluff having nothing (Thrasios passios) so you can EZone and win at instant speed out of nowhere. And if they kill your commanders, you have the mana to recast them.
Thanks for the video! I appreciate the description of each card.
I love reading Sam’s cEDH articles. They often go against the “common knowledge” but they have the evidence and math to back it up.
Where can one read them?
@@nheimi99 They used to write for Hipsters of the Coast, and now write for Commander’s Herald (EDHRec)
I’ve been proven so wrong about this deck. It freaking rips as much as I love Temur Dargo
You're welcome
@@LemorasCards lol did you guys do a spot on this deck too?
@mizzlchieizzl I've talked about it, but I'm referencing the fact that this commenter is someone I play with at my locals!
@@mizzlchieizzl Can confirm. I routinely get schooled by Matt every Thursday lol
Honestly this deck will be amazing with Flare of Duplication and Flare of Denial
Sam Black? The former pro-player from Wisconsin? Or is this a different Sam Black?
That's the one
@@RebellSon CEDH is mainstream! Woop woop! I thought Matt Sperling was an outlier, but I guess not. Seeing magic pros take an interest in our format just warms my heart :)
@@B1gLupu Sam Black, Brian Coval, Bryant Cook, Matt Sperling, Drake Sasser, etc all play cedh pretty regularly. The pros are coming
@@Hard1sh hurray, the format is saved!
I love how I can just very subtlety hear your cat in the background lmao
Whats the value running generous ent vs a 2nd forest instead?
I think i missed something, why are the basics important? Sprawl just needs a forest not a basic forest, wild growth and fertile ground are any land, what did i miss?
This deck uses earthcraft
I knew there must be something I wasn't seeing, ty Rebell
If you're planning to cut Etali, what is the "Oops I win" in the deck?
Finale of devastation, don’t cut etali tho he slaps
sooo….what are the wincon lines? I dont get it😂 …. Go infinite and than Etali?
Once you establish infinite bouncing with HbH or curio lines, you can bolt someone then eternal witness bolt back in hand. Or recast Etali infinitely. Whatever works
So the first line, where you sac the birds to evolution, where are you getting the 3rd green mana to float for thrasios?
My question is what is the real advantage of Rograkh over Dargo? I see a couple cards which get better with Roger (Fierce Guardianship, Deflecting Swat, Mox Amber, and Springleaf Durm) which can increase your turn 1 consistency, but don't the lines get more convoluted without Dargo?
Wouldn't the rograck help start hull break horror/ tide spout lines since it's a zero drop?
Dargo can't turn 1 no mana
Rog also sacs for Eldrich evolution to get Kinnan
Most of the lines are simpler with Rograkh, with anything that likes free creatures, and you can get him out T1 100% of the time. Cloudstone Curio becomes easy to create a loop. Sac inputs are easily active. Fierce/Swat are immediately active. Mana generators like Relic of Legends are immediately active. Cradle immediately generates mana (so you could even keep a hand with just Cradle!)
Dargo combos require more cards to be active, Dargo doesn't help you T1, and can be difficult to turn into mana.
I think it's crazy to play barrin over sabertooth if you are on cloud of faeries. If you where just on the dockside plan I could see it, but having one of your main bouncers not work with your second mana positive creatures is a bit wierd.
I dont play cedh. Why didn't you get out sol ring and/or mana vault at 2:20? You tapped otawara but didn't use the blue for anything.
But why not Kraum instead?
Gives you some insane lines with deadeye navigator and hullbreaker horror, while also being you know, a better card than rograkh
Rograkh makes the deck play much much faster with Mox Amber, springleaf drum, Jeskas will (if you play it), etc. and turns on your free interaction quicker (fierce + deflecting swat). I play this deck and it’s more turbo, where Kraum is more midrange.
Not to mention Rograkh is a much better card for neoform, eldritch evolution (right into dockside), and makes your dockside+ cloudstone curio line super easy with a 0 drop in the command zone
you look very happy talking about it ^-^
really like the videos but i think half the screen being your avatar is a bit much. makes it a little difficult to see the cards.
E Map? That's the one Erin put together, yeah?
Why choose Barin over Sabertooth?
Also, are there other wincons besides 1:Lightning Ball to face whit eternal loops and 2: finali for a lot!!!
E wit plus petal and kitten is also infinite btw
So, is it Timetwister for the decks that don´t use their graveyard and Wheel of Fortune for decks that do?
That was my thought. I built this deck and I only run Timetwister since I’m not on Underworld Breach
Blowing my mind just how good this Animar list looks.
animar doesn’t cost 0 mana
Yeah, it's so good it doesn't even use animar anymore
I remember seeing and building the original iteration of this deck Sam Black posted about a while ago, and have loved it ever since. Now seeing the latest variations and heading yours and Sam’s thoughts on the updated list, makes me want to update the version I have so badly. Amazing video, as always!
Why on the first hand did you pay 1 for Rograkh?
To assert dominance.
This is a better version of my old Kinnan deck
Hey nice gear! But um, hedge maze, really? lol. I'm interested.
How relevant is that Generous Ent is a creature? If it’s getting a land X% of the time (and then doing nothing else as far as I can tell?), what should X be before it should just be another fetch?
Yeah I agree that’s the weirdest part of the list, idk what generous ent is doing here tbh
pitches to force of vigor
theres a few things i really dislike about sam's list including ent and lorien. they are simply 60 card cards and arent very good in cedh, sure you can pay 5 mana and draw 3 or island cycle. but like, its such bad card quality over something more explosive
How do you win?
It's a good deck, just like how do you win the game?
Once you've established infinite mana you can do whatever you want.
You draw up to whatever you need, then Lightning Bolt the table finitely by casting Bolt, playing Eternal Witness to pick up the Bolt, then use one of the many engines to infinitely bounce E-Witt like Cloudstone Curio + Rog / Hullbreaker Horror + Rog + E Witt. You can also exile everyone's library with Etali by infinitely bouncing and recasting Etali instead of bolt.
Also infinite mana Finale of Devastation all your creatures and attack works.
Thanks, love this deck
Do you think thrasios and then Jace or thoracle would be a good win con
Why emap instead of sylvan scrying ?
Emap can be played turn 1, is colorless, can find boseiju to hand to destroy something, and this deck used to be on urza’s saga. Scrying is easier to counter, and while e map is 3 mana in total, forcing 2 on the stack is harder than 1.
Hey I have a Roger Thrasios deck but it’s poly morph for Etali and displaced kitten and nothing else
Have you thought about Krark thrasios so all of your poly morph effects get both kitten and etali?
Rebs! Its just cause you haven't played Stella Lee, Wild Card yet!!
U say there ways to make inf. Mana whit relic + rog… how ? Also u say i wont go into how all the smal combo work, its a Waste of time: no.. i would love that 😊
13k for this deck. Nice.
i feel like its a bit unfair to count a combo as a win without a counter back up
I think the point of this deck is that getting countered isn't the end of the world since you have ramp+thrasios to fall back on.
i got to 13 mana on t2 with monoU urza
I had 22 mana on turn 2 with kinnan, got out 2x voidwinnowers. Copy artifact on mana crypt + phyrexian metamorph on the voidwinnower
My polymorph brain is grateful for the dark horse psyop
I prefer thrasios with tevesh
This is a good budget deck.
IS rog providing THAT much value? Doesn't Akri provide much more?
Why not play thras akiri?
Why hedge maze? Tapped land
Literally said in the video
@@FoggieFroggy instead of that, type what was said about it
@@aklepatzkyor, don’t be lazy. Find it in the video and hear from the source.
@@ruckin_ryno or you be useful and instead of posting a meaningless comment actually help out others
0 mana card selection you can tutor for 0 mana when you have nothing else to do, it’s powerful
thank you, like rograhk gives mana, thras likes mana, no brainer, cloudstone loops, you can even HARD CAST memes like dispacer kitten into etali, t2 seedborne. jeska doesnt synergize and rog eldritch into 2's is actually really nice for tutor consistency in colors that struggle.