Twin Turbo vs Single Turbo SKYLINE GT-R - Which is Better? MYTHBUSTED
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2015
- The never ending debate for RB26 owners. Low mount twins our single when upgrading from stock turbos and you're looking for the best balance of response and power.
Our R32 GT-R project car already had 10-second performance and was a responsive daily driveable street car, but would a single make it better or worse?
We do a back to back comparison between low mount bolt-on twins and a medium frame GTX3582R turbo to see which is better, with results taken from:
- The dyno
- The dragstrip
- The road
We've made up our mind. Will you?
Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions.
motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/3...
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Авто/Мото
But the real question - Will it fit my Honda?
Mighty Car Mods Your Honda? You've never had a Honda? We've told you to stay away from that bog Moog you electric space wizard. :P
Mighty Car Mods What's a Honda?
Mighty Car Mods in my Honda Fit?
***** Wait... WHAT Honda? Moog stop smoking weed, it was just a bad nightmare!
Mighty Car Mods It's a Subaru bolt-on. You've obviously got the wrong car.
Reasons for illegal mods:
Easier to see/fix leaks, officer
Reasons you still get a ticket:
It's illegal.
Tuvzii You still can do mods,here you can't do mods at all.
Andrea Where are you approximately ?
Come to NZ. As long as mod is done by a professional (and it's not outright dangerous), you can basically do anything you want.
@@Billy_The_Dog I like that
In Australia they get "GDR's".
nomellocreampig ‘GDAHS’
GeeDeeAaahs
Great video Andrew! The in-depth coverage and your know how on the subject really make this production a stand out.
Im not a GTR guy but this video was BADASS and so is that GTR.
+Toyota4Life Yup. I'm sure all this twin-to-single technique is adaptable to the non-VVTi JZ family as well ;)
+Nick Amarit im not an r35 guy maby on a goof day i can enjoy a 34 but the best are the 33s and 32s there just oozing with cool
@@ryanrohauer5940 I feel the same
Hands down this is The most educational, no fucking around automotive channel ever!
You shoot car building then you shoot car racing from car building! There's nothing more you can ask. great video @Motive DVD
Highly appreciate your time and effort.
Thanks! We take pride in making sure our information is accurate and we modify our cars to go faster so we can help other people.
So what I learned is that a bigger modern turbo is better than an outdated twin turbo setup... You had to test for that? Why not try comparing it to twin gtx2860s? That would make more sense to me.
Not only are they comparing old vs new technology, but they are wrapping the pipes and turbo to benefit the single, along with fixing a blown head gasket. And if you look at the graph lower down where you really need low end power for daily driving the twins out performed the single, but no mention of that. Seems they had a predetermined outcome in mind.
Nail on head. Test was a joke.
Or GT2530s
A big factor in this vid is that you are using modern tech turbo, but a big issue you didn't talk about is internal waste gates are shite and upset exhaust gas flow out compared to external gates. Also the other issue is the fact you used a lovely aftermarket twin pulse exhaust manifold compared to crap standard one. I would like to see a modern set up of modern twins (top mounts, external gates) etc. then test again.
This has been done to death a properly sized single will always be more efficient than twins.
Electronic external waste gates have now been released so yer 3 years later and internal wastegate are defiantly not worth using if you can afford it
@@demarcodraper4266 Right OEMs just make cars with twin turbo setups because they like spending more money on inferior stuff.
What's been done to death is comparing apples to oranges, like two small old inefficient turbos to one large modern high performance one. Get two modern medium sized high performance turbos and try that again, see what happens then.
@@demarcodraper4266 False. Actually I wouldn't know with newer modern cars. However the reason to stay twins was for throttle modulation and the fact that you wouldn't fall of the cliff on a twin turbo set up (not twin Sequential set up) vs a single.
@@Zeiss120 Draper is right. Newer cars use twin turbo setups strictly for packaging reasons. Single turbos are always better, everything else being equal.
That car's B.O.V. sounds EXACTLY like a girl I used to know when she sneezed.
Even if they were comparable in performance, the single would win out on reliability and simplicity. If you run a car hard, shit breaks. Having your shit take longer to break and be easier to fix is a huge plus.
thanks for the comparison. I think most people just plop on a huge turbo and then regret it later when they actually want to use it in the real world. your test shows that if your do your homework and think it through you can have a better overall car for cheaper, and with reduced complexity.
One of the best RB26 modification videos i have seen ever! Very good job!!!! Great Video!
Maintaining the system is the biggest factor that I run single. Good video!
Nice vid Andrew, Probably made a few people cry with this one lol. My only gripe would be that as you mentioned with having the single the cops won't even bother about using lube any more haha.
CannonShane Some people have gotten upset, yes.
***** i was a HUGE fan of keeping twins, but this video literally changed my mind. Its nice to see an actual side by side comparison, providing some scientific reasoning to things ;)
Absolutely amazing footage and work, congratulations guy, that was cool to watch. Thank you.
holy crap, this changed my mind about going to a single. so glad you included the quarter at the end of the video, was worried you were going to leave us hanging
Love the video! Thanks for putting in the time to do the job right. Now I have to think about replacing my GT2860r-5s on my RB26! Bastard!
+GTRBacon You running a single turbo now?
Caelum Hagen No
Andrew...Why aren't you a host on Top Gear?!?
Ha ha. Im not grumpy enough for UK one and I talk too fast for American TV! But thanks
***** I missed what the guy said how come you got kicked from drags? I'm not familiar with them from NZ
Taketora Satou When you run under 10.99 here you have to have a roll cage, racing license and some other safety equipment. You can go back and they'll boot you again for the day but eventually you get permanently banned. Usually when your speed goes over 140mph.
@@MotiveVideo werent u on another youtube channel? i cant find those old videos about wastegates and turbos...what was that channel name??
This video is killer, Keep up the good work. Looking forward to the next motive garage Gtr video. Lots of usable info I can apply to the rb20
Good video guys. This video was spot on as I never knew the difference between a single and a twin turbo set up on a GTR.
Wait a minute wait a minute hold on... That's the guy from MCM that drifted the hell out of that S13 they built!
Sweet slow-mo launches! You can really see the ATTESA at work...
Extreemly Informative video Andrew. Really appreciate the time and detail you have put in to this video
This video was very fun to watch!! Awesome job gentlemen!
A little more proof for everyone: ruclips.net/video/35UeUhGGy00/видео.html&ab_channel=MotiveDVD
+TeensierPython - we did show that. Also see it drive normally in some other videos on our channel
+Sean Price if twin charging was worth the effort, a lot more people would do it
+Sean Price modern turbos are good enough that the weight, complexity and cost of twin charging doesn't make sense most of the time
+Sean Price VW TFSI engines are twin charged from the factory. It is worth it on 4 cylinder engines since they miss the smooth torque a 6 ( or more ) cylinder has.
mighty car mods royal nasho 21:56
hell yea!
Mighty Car Mods brought me here and I subscribed. Awesome videos!
mighty car mods brought me here. Great work man !! awesome video
Great job Andrew, Now here's a challenge for you, do a back to back with nothing changed except going from a RB26 to a RB30 and once and for all shut up the RB26 fan boys who think an "all else being equal" 26 will respond better and rev quicker on the road/track than a RB30.
If i can get a good RB30 at a good price I just might ;)
Will push standard engine to destruction then build but keep same support gear.
***** Nitrous next.
RIPSNZ Would love to see this.
***** We're listening.......
RIPSNZ And use GTS-4 Diff's :D
Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions.
motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
Great video twin are good too , but you did not really got into aftermarket twin setups or custom setup there around ??? Why not there is a differences between bolt on twins and aftermarket etc twin setups b6t I guess its up to your own taste .and before anyone , keyboard , trolls etc start bashing me on this im a mechanic by trade and work on many gtr's etc so I know a fair bit
Gaz Girl Your question is answered in the video, but Go to the link and read the FAQs: motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
***** cheers I hope one day to be in your dvd im building a e30 with s52 m3 engine turbo , I hope to see m8re euro cars in your drag battle I know there are a couple of tough euros out there
wouldn't this have been a better comparison with after market twin manifolds, elbows, and dumps and a couple of new garret gtx28 twins? instead of the 20 year old gt2860s?
Adam Benderman no. please re watch video and understand why
Great video like always! Keep it up guys
Very informative, thanks! It's also the same story with Single turbo Rotaries! At first, I wondered why RX-7 drivers swapped their twins to a Single because I thought it would be more laggy and slower, but the overall increase in reliability and less complications with the old system prove to make it a more reliable car. Just a shame Rotary is a bit finicky but I still plan on owning one some day along with the R32 GTR once the V-Spec hits US shores legally. Always wanted a White one :)
I'm so jealous that Aussies get Skylines and the states we're were lucky to get a 240SX with a KA24DE truck motor. Sure, we can import the RB25DET or 26DETT and the SR20DET but you're going to pay out the ass for a good one even with a 5 speed. I have always been crazy about Skylines. You can see them in California or Canada but here in the US you're going to pay close to US $80,000 for a clean R33 or R34 and you can get an R35 for that. Anyway, awesome power gains and this is probably the 20th time that I've watched this video. Great job Andrew!
+Robert Keeton r34 skylines are worth megabucks the world over, even here in nz
+Robert Keeton Over here in Japan R32 and r33 sell for nearly 10-12k. But to import it anywhere is what kills budgets.
+Robert Keeton r32 gars are pretty cheap here in the states since they're legal
+Robert Keeton where you not informed that they are now old enough to import to the US? xP
I'm gonna be keeping my 31 thats for sure.
I want one so bad! I would LOVE to have an R33 GTR with an RB26DETT. R33 is one of my favorite body styles. Idk what it is about them, they just do it for me.
but what would happen if you also used modern turbos in a twin setup? you cant really compare new technology to old technology like that when you create more than one variable.
This is true
But we wanted to compare t to the most common turbo choise on the market, the -dash series GT2860s
There is a GTX low mount but it is very big.
What other current technology bolt on low mounts are there? True bolt on?
***** Fortunately in this case the GTX of the same size is no better spooling and they didn't push it to it's limits, so really it could have been a GT3582R which is the same generation as the GT2860Rs and the spool would have been about the same and the power difference would have been big as opposed to huge :)
***** Borg Warner turbos for exemple
***** There are GTX low mounts but aren't exactly bolt on and are quite large. Designed for power rather than response. Hardly anyone has used them so didn't seem like great comparison for that reason. The only car we've seen use them was impressive power wise, but response didn't really improve over normal GT2860s
i will soon find out, i fitted 2 borg warner efr 6258 on my mitsubishi 3000/stealth
Best RUclips video I have ever seen so far. You give the most unbiased and detailed explanations for every topic covered. Good s#it.
Awesome video. Kept me entertained right to the end.
Awesome comparison and solid solid arguments. Watch the pro-TT peeps try to poke holes in this.
timruddell125 There are a lot of flaws with their comparison. The engine was given an overhaul before the single and as others pointed out they wrapped the pipes and blanketed the turbo for the single turbo. This test was biased towards the single whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Modern twins would also perform better. If singles were best why would Audi put twins on their modern RS4&5 models and only a single on the lower end S models?
This video will forever have me conflicted on which route to take, single or twin. Being that I fall into the category of bone stock base makes it a tougher choice. I want to go single as seeing it perform 1st hand and here shows its power and potential. But the stock looking engine bay, as stupid as it sounds is a high want as well. The precision turbo 6266 is looking like the go though! :) Great videos, keep them coming.
ItsCardo1987 Stock I might go small twins if you have an I6 or V6 for more low end quicker spool, unless you can do as they did and get a twin scroll manifold and turbo, which they showed worked better bc it works with your exhaust pulses to drive the turbo evenly (Google twin scroll turbo. nice read, awesome & very useful product). If you got a 4 banger, definitely single. Not enough oomph to drive 2 turbos good enough in a stock 4 banger.
Man... reading this post now.. I was an idiot of even considering keeping my stock size twins.. been on my single setup for almost a year now.. I WOULD NEVER EEEEVVVER GO BACK to twins.
Cardo_GTR twin
The cost is the big factor in Twin vs single. You can spend more than a grand more on a twin setup. Also complexity is an issue. More pipes and need to make more space with a twin setup.
However what puzzles me about the video is would the response factor be more of a result of the transmissions gear ratios? Traditionally a twin setup is more responsive because you can use two small turbos that can match a larger single when comparing the surface area of the inlet housing.
I've had a MKIV supra with HKS 2835 twin kit and it was quite responsive at 750hp. Much more responsive than the ancient Greddy T88H it previously had. I sold my twin kit and the new owner used two custom EFR 58mm turbos with a larger hot side and on his Supra he managed to lay 890hp at 35psi. Comparing to how my original 2835 turbos, it's much more responsive and makes way more power. I've since put a GT42R and the car ended up making just shy of 1100hp but I since sold the car.
Cardo_GTR rrdr4rrde3
Amazing good explanations and test
I'd like to see an updated version of this test with newer turbos. How about a pair of EFR 6258s vs a single EFR 8374?
@10:55 The guy speaking says "longetivity"
Longevity is the word I believe he was looking for. lol.
I was looking for your comment. Noticed that also. OCD bretherin.
No he's correct longetivity is an old rare form of longevity long-life grammarist.com/usage/longetivity-longevity/
enough with all this negavity.
Cheers for the video, however I'm still not sold sorry. Every time you said how responsive it was you were 4000rpm minimum. I'll stick to 2530's for now.
+twentysheds ___ Stock RB26s are dead below 4000rpm anyway, let along ones with lager turbos. Plus, look at the dyne graph down low. There is no instance, revs, driving situation where the twins work better.
Great video Andrew, very impressive figures on the gtx, I would imagine the outcome would be the same on a big single vs big top mount twins as alot of the big power rb's in Japan still seem to run top mount twins
Garage12 the argument gets a bit different on big twins and really big singles as its more about airflow and hp than response. But to us, the packaging problems of twins makes a single a much better option. If you think low mount twins are tight, high mounts are even worse as you have to fit two giant dump pipes and intakes etc
You guys know your stuff! Great video.
Can you guys do a a modern twin turbo set ups and compare it to the single you are running right now ?
6miz22miz this. this needs to be done.
6miz22miz It's simply a budget and time issue. We would love to do all the comparisons possible but at the end of the day, someone has to pay for it.
***** i understand would be nice if you could tho
i'm thinking about swapping out my twins for a single turbo on my e92 335xi (N54)....i saw a video of an N54 making around 900whp on stock internals!!! fu*kin crazy!
me too lol
Me too
Another great video. No idea how you only have 63k subscribers
nice andrew,seems super responsive on the strip. literally no lag at all.
I believe this is a very well done video, however there is one thing that IN MY OPINION was completely ignored.
You compare the turbochargers based upon flow numbers... but you're completely ignoring the compressor maps themselves. The turbochargers are pushing 24psi? Assuming a 14.7psi Atmospheric, that's a 2.63 Pressure Ratio.
At that pressure ratio, you're completely off the compressor map on the GT28's, while you're right there smack in the middle of the efficiency of the GTX3582R.
As you guys know.. it's not so much the quantity of air but the quality of air that's introduced into the motor.
Although not perfect, if the twins would of been GTX2867R's (much more expensive, I know, plus you'd have to use a smaller compressor housing) then they would of been much closer in comparison for compressor efficiency numbers (77-78%).
Like I said.. I think this is an awesome video that obviously took a lot of time and money, but in my opinion, I believe that you skipped off on a very important variable.
Steven Johnson we wanted to compare the most popular options used by GT-R owners. Low mount dash series GT28s and medium frame single turbo.
Low mount GTXs aren't exactly bolt on ( although some companies can make them bolt on) and are very uncommon in Australia. IN fact, only a couple of cars have been built with them. They are also quite large, so the power might match our single, but from what we've seen, they are less responsive than the twins we had simply due to their size.
There are problem 1000 GT-Rs with "dash series' low mounts for every GT-R with GTX low mounts. Simply comparing the most commonly used options on the market. Also, we already had the low mounts on the car.
incredibly informative!!! 400+wkw on stock internals is that right???? tell the truth man! What fuel are you running in it?
Actually, it makes 500KW on stock bottom end now. have to watch the latest video on the car :)
that is absolutely incredible!!!! INSANE even!!! i will certainly watch out for it. I have always read that the RB pistons and bottom end can't handle much in stock form compared to its rival the 2jz this is why i am shocked at your figures
there is quite a few stock bottom end RB26s in Oz pushing big power
we learn everyday! But what fuel are they running? 98? I am saving up for a 32 myself hence i am learning as much as i can about the car, its capabilities etc etc
if you want to make big power on stock bottom end you don't use 98. In, fact any big powered car you don't use 98. Once you go E85 you never go back. Simply no comparison on a turbo car.
just gota say Andrew.. this is a seriously good and informative video u guys don't fuc around aye s8 to the point!! that car is.. mental!
Such a good video! I just had to re watch it! Man I bet this .101 housing would be so much more responsive with a rb30 bottom end!
fucking awesome video.....................and I usually HATE nissans....and love the peelout at the end.
so what is better twin or single?
single all the way
Great video, I've been using a single T51 Kai for years, huge power on boost! Single 1 Twins 0
Another great vid.Good job.
Obi-Nissan Kenobi!!!
Potato comparison for so many reasons ... Title should be called stock twin vs *twin scroll* GTX35. Its scary how many people spread false information online.
For the love of god you probably out of map choke lined the twins on 2.6 PR.
Its a single turbo. Get over it.
@@ngt84 twin scroll is a new thing meaning its basicaly a turbo working as two
I know in the video you guys used a 1.01 housing, my question is would a 1.06 housing be a crazy difference or would there be more lag? Or would there be no difference? Awesome video guys, now I’m gonna go for a set up like this.
Very good comparison for the average joe who is considering a up grade/replacement of worn turbos. Did I miss the cost comparssion for the complete swap? I think it is important. not just the turbo cost man hours and new bits would be nice to know.
Anyway I have subed and enjoy the format as always the more information is always better so keep it comming.
Thanks to Mighty Car Mods for pointing me to this video. I was actually considering this debate!
FYI, heatwrap has a double bonus for production of power, hot gas flows faster and smoother and increases turbine speed, heat wrap keeps that heat in. MTU (Motoren- und Turbinen-Union) were one of the first to use this principle when they used Inconel exhaust diverters in their high speed diesel engines. Had the pleasure of working for them for a number of years on engines from 1 cylinder and 500cc NA engines to 20 cylinder common rail vee engines with 8 litres per cylinder and compound twin sequential turbo systems.
Good show, mate... Cheers
love the part where you are pushing it around the streets. awesome!!
15:57 That's Old Pacific Highway up by Gosford! Amazing driving road
Thanks for that, that's really change my opinion about single !
Very cool video, thank you!
Great video man, great work! and that R32 kicks ass.
Another great video! Love the R32 GTR series you have done.
Makes me feel better about my 2.75L stroker RB26 and BW 8374 EFR R32 project. Can you please tell me what boost and fuel you were on during your ride through the twisty's (low and high?). Looked like quite the difference between the two. Just trying to get an idea of my car's estimated performance. THANKS!
Patrick Harris All on E70. Until we turned up boost it was on 14psi and 330kW @ wheels. Its quite lazy on that too as the boot controller is essentially off, so wastage creeps open
Not what the video is about but I was blown away going to a modern gt30 on my rb20, really seemed like down low lag was not different but pulled way harder and top end held high boost to redline. Next project car will be an r32-r34 gtr so great video, I swore twins would have had some advantage. Got an blown 6.1 Challenger at 497whp as well but am an RB guy at heart, nothing beats the feelin of an RB comming onto boost. NOTHING
Great Video, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos. I've learned a lot watching them. I hope i can reach such nice results on my own R32 GT-R which i just got on the streets here in germany! It's a hard process to get these cars legal for the german roads. Please keep doing the Videos about the R32!!! And i got a question to end my comment: What would u think about a Top-Mount-Twin-Turbo-Setup? I Think u could use some new-technology turbos there, couldn't you?
Once u start talking high mount twins its a different argument. The record holding cars pretty much all use singles and most time attack cars use singles.
We prefer single in big hp applications for packaging and manifold design reasons
German_Godzilla There is a GTX upgrade available for low mount -5's. Probably for other low mounts too.
mickydee26 It's not really a bolt on affair and we wanted to test popular options that lots of people can relate to. So far I now of one GT-R with twin GTXs, and the results aren't anything to get excited about.
thanks for upload mate
excellent video!!
Amazing video!!
Hey Andrew I noticed the A/C was installed when the engine was pulled. Were you able to keep your A/C with the 6boost manifold?
I've watched this vid more times than I can count and I think I'm finally ready to make the switch to single on my GTR. Thanks for the inspiration!
The big difference I see is the time between exhaust pulses. With a twin setup, only half of the cylinders feed the turbo, so the turbo slows down between pulses. If the other turbo is at a higher pressure, this pressure further decelerates the turbo. A single turbo doesn't have another turbo fighting it, and provides more consistent pressure with less lag because the time between pulses is shorter.
Great comparison.
Top flick! Made my morning coffee far more informative - my love the Mine's 34 set up one day hangs by a thread! I wonder if they could be convinced! Japan investigation tour? Count me in.
JDM033files The Mines R34 is an amazing car, but was built nearly 10 years a go. If you watch our "6-speed install" video on our channel it actually explains the "secret" to the Mins car :) Many minds have been blown by it.
***** Done - morning video selected! Thanks bloke!
When APS was still doing business in the US, they had two guys in the Las Vegas, NV area with 350Zs. One had the twin turbo set-up and the other had the single and in every quarter mile race they did at the drag way, the single always won and I assume they were both using turbos that were up-to-date to each other.
Awesome review ! Keep it up ~
Just curious, what type of blow the R32 is running eh ? I love the sound it makes. :)
Ayz Pujangga It's actually the standard ones venting to atmosphere.
Sweet. Thnx for the info. :)
awesome video
this is very informative! :)
I'd love to drive a car that nice one day. Sounds so good on the road, so smooth in the gear change.
Excellent video! I am doing a build on my BMW N54 335xi and was searching videos about the GTX3582R Gen 2 and found myself here. My current build is going to use that turbo with T04 1.06 a/r and is going from small twins. I have been hearing people say that singles suck to drive and turbo lag is bad with a single. My tuner reassured me that single is the way to go. Sometimes you feel like people are just trying to sell you but after this video I cant wait to have my car running soon. That RB26 just rips! Also I like that beat at 21:00 minutes anyone know what it is?
Awesome video and thank you for sharing your tips 😂😂👍
Could you make a video of the smallest turbos?
The ones you'd want to install in modern 1 to 2liter economy cars, for a mild performance boost?
i was just thinking about this and low and behold you upload a vid answering every question i had in my head. i was thinking more a GTX3076 and prob around the 20psi mark on a low mount manifold. what do you think this would net?
Great video...very informative...btw how hard is it swapping the 6 speed in the r32?...im assuming its an r34 box
+ivorton23 We have a video on it on our channel. It's easy to do, but hard to find all the parts
nice video Andrew, for me it's a personal preference, I still prefer twins. :)
sounds amazing !
Great Video 👍👏👏👌
The ending looks fun.
thank you. thank you. thank you
Mate just found your Chanel awesome job!!! So the southern highlands... Barrengarry mountain is it?..and im 90% sure Macquarie pass as well. Shows how well your car handles all the same... watch for wombats and drunks at night, both can fuck your day right up... Keep the Vids coming mate as i said Great job keep them coming!
besides the AMS r35 and RIPS 240z - this has got to be one of the coolest Nissans ive seen thus far!
Thank you motive for such a great comparison. Hands down one of the best car channels on youtube.
That is one sweet ride. Nissan did an amazing job on that engine as well... So nice...
You should have thrown in turbo shuffle and instalation of a balance pipe in between the headers to add to the headaches....single for the win twins to the bin
Love it Andrew! This argument should well and truly be put to bed now!
It is for us, but we've seen some odd arguments!
Let's just say regardless of space, would it be better to have one small and one larger turbocharger for a twin setup? There's not a lot of information that I've found, but I'm just asking out of curiosity. Also would response be better and could it compete with a single turbo's power figure?