I just got a custom prototype from david allen, its basically single ended Princeton 5f2-a, but with the Vibro Champ tube bias tremolo added (also 6L6 for 10 watts, but can use 6V6 for 6 watts). 5AR4 rectifier tube. It's a head so experimenting with cabs. Sound can get huge with these beautiful low watt amps. I am very happy to have this build. Thanks for sharing, and beautiful amps you have.
Interesting video, sounds like the champ would be a good alternative. I also approve of mediocre players using high end instruments. Mediocre players unite!
Haha…we have real jobs at this age and we can buy fancy stuff because we can afford it but too busy to really focus on playing as much as we should be. Facts
That is why Mr Fender is still talked about, he was the right person at the right time working on shaping the tone and amplifying the vibes , it was his vocation.
We, the mediocre are the backbone of the music store industry. If only great guitarist bought gear the guitar industry would be the size of the violin industry.
I didn't like any of the distorted sounds from either amp. I have a 65 blackface Vibro Champ which is all original apart from the 1k 1w resitor which I had to change and even with humbuckers I can't get it to distort like that. At between 8-10 I get a mild break up but in the main I get clean clear sound with more than enough volume for bedroom playing. I have also tried it through my 4 x 10 cabinet loaded with Jenson P10s and C10s and it sounds wonderful. There have been so many changes in transformers and speakers over the years with the Fender labeled speakers being very variable that I find comparing sounds to be a minefield. Add the different manufacturers of capacitors and resistors and you have another huge variable not to mention values drifting over time.
I put a Hammond transformer in a champ I made using a champ 12 combo as a donor,1 12ax7, 1 6L6 and 1 Gu4 rectifier valve, it stays clean up to 8 with an Eminence GA10 sc64 spraker, lovely clean slightly compressed tone. Magic.
First, thankyou for taking the trouble and time to make this very useful video. Both sound fantastic, the Tweed has a much wider range, when you hit it the sound has authority and smacks your face(in a nice way). The Champ is even and bubbly and more versatile but the Princeton has a rawness which lets you hear the Guitar. Hearing the Princeton loud is awe-inspiring, the champ sound is tweeked to appeal to a broader range . Maybe the pre-amp gain was a bit high on the mic , not complaining cos it's difficult doing everythjng youself . I learned a lot from this video and 1 thing is I can understand why players like that Princeton sound when it's turned up. Nice amps , I would be chuffed with either!
Great video man. I have champs of tweed, black, and silver and different speakers REALLY play a huge part in the sounds. I find that a Weber alnico complements the silver while a Jupiter c8 sounds great in the black, and a Jensen sounds good in the tweed (mine is a clone). Those 2 amps are very similar. Another really striking comparison is the tweed vibrolux vs a brown/black Princeton.
I'm about to hand wire a circuit into a blackheart 5 watt donor amp. I'm thinking 5f2a with added tmb ( marshall jtm values), a nfb pot , tone cut switch , and master vol or attenuator.. This video will be helpful !
My favorite amp ever was a Weber Tweed Princeton kit, with a negative feedback pot added. Volume at 10 never seemed like a great setting. Too hairy to use gracefully. 5 to just below 7 was a very sweet range. When I first got that amp, I kind of "got tube religion." Even at low sort of practicing volume, say, 2 or so, a richness made my guitars sound grown up. Their voices were revealed.
Very interesting comparison I am a little bit biased LOL toward the 5f2a circuit... I own a lil dawg Prince lunch box head, but with a 6L6 at 15watts instead of two 6v6s...the tone is clean, wide and full of midrange, compared to my friends 64 original bf princeton is night and day of course...there is just something about late 50s narrow panel tweeds that have so much mojo, hard to explain...nice array of heads behind you... will you consider comparing the Soldano and Friedman just for kicks? Thanks for the video ✌️
Great video! I was on the fence on wether buying one of these two amps. Is it safe the say the blackface vibro champ is the same schematic as the blackface champ? With just the vibrato difference?
I have a july of 1965 Princeton reverb which was found in the trash. Near mint condition cosmetically. I recapped and tubed it had to replace the speaker (dry rot) sounds amazing. I have all the orig parts. Cant find someone to recone locally.
One day I’m going to put a scope after the various stages, just to see where the overdrive shaping happens on the various amp and guitar level settings.
I bought a Princeton after watching this. I put a P10Q in it. The sound is great up to 10 but after that it is not good. MY question is why does this amp accentuate any mistakes you make? I have noticed the same thing but don't know why. I would love to know the reason.... I am a mediocre guitarist myself... TO me when I play at bedroom volumes, say 3, the EQ is mid focused and does not sound great. I love the sound from 5-10. Is this normal. For playing at home I use an EQ pedal and it sounds great.
Thanks for posting this…how is the volume in a small room can you dine the Princeton without going deaf in the house? I have a vibro champ that’s perfect for the house but the Princeton at 10 or 15 watt I’m assuming is much louder and would be harder to put on 10 in a bedroom?
The Princeton is more like 6 or 7, maybe less with a vintage transformer. Might sound fuller with a bigger cab, but an 8” speaker will sound boxy no matter what, unless your ear is right next to the speaker I used to have a champ style amp with a 10” speaker, and it sounded good cranked, but not so great at speaking volume. I have a tweed vibrolux clone now, which is similar to a brown or black Princeton, and it sounds great at any volume. For the price of a vintage champ you could have a reissue Princeton that is probably more useful
At least give fair warning that there's an 11-minute talking introduction and you don't tell us which amp you're playing right before you start - I gave up on trying to get through this 🤷♂ I would give it TWO thumbs down if I could 👎👎
I just got a custom prototype from david allen, its basically single ended Princeton 5f2-a, but with the Vibro Champ tube bias tremolo added (also 6L6 for 10 watts, but can use 6V6 for 6 watts). 5AR4 rectifier tube. It's a head so experimenting with cabs. Sound can get huge with these beautiful low watt amps. I am very happy to have this build. Thanks for sharing, and beautiful amps you have.
Interesting video, sounds like the champ would be a good alternative. I also approve of mediocre players using high end instruments. Mediocre players unite!
Haha…we have real jobs at this age and we can buy fancy stuff because we can afford it but too busy to really focus on playing as much as we should be. Facts
That is why Mr Fender is still talked about, he was the right person at the right time working on shaping the tone and amplifying the vibes , it was his vocation.
Great playing man! Phenomenal tone too!
We, the mediocre are the backbone of the music store industry. If only great guitarist bought gear the guitar industry would be the size of the violin industry.
I didn't like any of the distorted sounds from either amp. I have a 65 blackface Vibro Champ which is all original apart from the 1k 1w resitor which I had to change and even with humbuckers I can't get it to distort like that. At between 8-10 I get a mild break up but in the main I get clean clear sound with more than enough volume for bedroom playing. I have also tried it through my 4 x 10 cabinet loaded with Jenson P10s and C10s and it sounds wonderful. There have been so many changes in transformers and speakers over the years with the Fender labeled speakers being very variable that I find comparing sounds to be a minefield. Add the different manufacturers of capacitors and resistors and you have another huge variable not to mention values drifting over time.
I put a Hammond transformer in a champ I made using a champ 12 combo as a donor,1 12ax7, 1 6L6 and 1 Gu4 rectifier valve, it stays clean up to 8 with an Eminence GA10 sc64 spraker, lovely clean slightly compressed tone. Magic.
Great presentation. Thanks for taking your time to provide us with this information.
First, thankyou for taking the trouble and time to make this very useful video. Both sound fantastic, the Tweed has a much wider range, when you hit it the sound has authority and smacks your face(in a nice way). The Champ is even and bubbly and more versatile but the Princeton has a rawness which lets you hear the Guitar. Hearing the Princeton loud is awe-inspiring, the champ sound is tweeked to appeal to a broader range . Maybe the pre-amp gain was a bit high on the mic , not complaining cos it's difficult doing everythjng youself . I learned a lot from this video and 1 thing is I can understand why players like that Princeton sound when it's turned up. Nice amps , I would be chuffed with either!
Great video man. I have champs of tweed, black, and silver and different speakers REALLY play a huge part in the sounds. I find that a Weber alnico complements the silver while a Jupiter c8 sounds great in the black, and a Jensen sounds good in the tweed (mine is a clone). Those 2 amps are very similar. Another really striking comparison is the tweed vibrolux vs a brown/black Princeton.
I'm about to hand wire a circuit into a blackheart 5 watt donor amp.
I'm thinking 5f2a with added tmb ( marshall jtm values), a nfb pot , tone cut switch , and master vol or attenuator..
This video will be helpful !
Nice! Both sound great.
My favorite amp ever was a Weber Tweed Princeton kit, with a negative feedback pot added.
Volume at 10 never seemed like a great setting. Too hairy to use gracefully. 5 to just below 7 was a very sweet range.
When I first got that amp, I kind of "got tube religion." Even at low sort of practicing volume, say, 2 or so, a richness made my guitars sound grown up. Their voices were revealed.
Loved the video. Thanks!
Very interesting comparison I am a little bit biased LOL toward the 5f2a circuit... I own a lil dawg Prince lunch box head, but with a 6L6 at 15watts instead of two 6v6s...the tone is clean, wide and full of midrange, compared to my friends 64 original bf princeton is night and day of course...there is just something about late 50s narrow panel tweeds that have so much mojo, hard to explain...nice array of heads behind you... will you consider comparing the Soldano and Friedman just for kicks?
Thanks for the video ✌️
That was cool man thanks, that Princeton sounds great but not three times as great the camp sounds really good love those small amps though
subscribed ...keep doing it man
Great video! I was on the fence on wether buying one of these two amps. Is it safe the say the blackface vibro champ is the same schematic as the blackface champ? With just the vibrato difference?
I have a july of 1965 Princeton reverb which was found in the trash. Near mint condition cosmetically. I recapped and tubed it had to replace the speaker (dry rot) sounds amazing. I have all the orig parts. Cant find someone to recone locally.
I didn’t like either one distorted sounds
I liked the Princeton loud though.
One day I’m going to put a scope after the various stages, just to see where the overdrive shaping happens on the various amp and guitar level settings.
I bought a Princeton after watching this. I put a P10Q in it. The sound is great up to 10 but after that it is not good. MY question is why does this amp accentuate any mistakes you make? I have noticed the same thing but don't know why. I would love to know the reason.... I am a mediocre guitarist myself... TO me when I play at bedroom volumes, say 3, the EQ is mid focused and does not sound great. I love the sound from 5-10. Is this normal. For playing at home I use an EQ pedal and it sounds great.
Put a reverb and delay pedals in front and it hides mistakes also a. Overdrive pedal
Thanks for posting this…how is the volume in a small room can you dine the Princeton without going deaf in the house? I have a vibro champ that’s perfect for the house but the Princeton at 10 or 15 watt I’m assuming is much louder and would be harder to put on 10 in a bedroom?
The Princeton is more like 6 or 7, maybe less with a vintage transformer.
Might sound fuller with a bigger cab, but an 8” speaker will sound boxy no matter what, unless your ear is right next to the speaker
I used to have a champ style amp with a 10” speaker, and it sounded good cranked, but not so great at speaking volume. I have a tweed vibrolux clone now, which is similar to a brown or black Princeton, and it sounds great at any volume. For the price of a vintage champ you could have a reissue Princeton that is probably more useful
I built a 5f2a using a crate v5 transformer set. Thru a 12 inch greenback at 5 watts I was reading 115db. Loud little amps
@@soapboxearth2 That's the ticket , a bigger speaker 10" minimum.
Either both sound terrible, or you are overloading the mics.
Unfortunately, you are correct.. heavy handed distortion portions are blown out..
..sounded likeca drummer hitting the snare when he hit those strungs but it sounded good with that Princeton!! A 2 piece band with 1 muso.
Very I teresting nice methodology
What speakers are in the amps?
Warehouse G8c speaker
@@Jam-m7m Both amps had the G8c speaker? Impressive.
It sounded to harsh
tweed yup ...
these amps are made with mistakes , the power line is weak , just change the caps , the bass sounds awfull ,
Really enjoy videos like this.
Thank you for doing this 🤝
🚬🥃🎚️📻🎵🧲👍
At least give fair warning that there's an 11-minute talking introduction and you don't tell us which amp you're playing right before you start - I gave up on trying to get through this 🤷♂ I would give it TWO thumbs down if I could 👎👎