Nice episode. I like this more relaxed format. If I may propose something to be discussed in future episodes is Garmin PR and product line up, such as how they interact with the community on Beta tests. That latest feature pack released came at the expense of previously working features such as custom power profiles no longer working, structured HIIT workouts with self-evaluation just corrupting the .fit file, etc. This also ties to a recurrent topic on why Garmin has so many different devices, UI differences, etc. It feels like their environment has so much potential but they end up hurting themselves with the business decision on having so many different and overlapping products in a non-standardized manner killing each other and making it difficult to maintain consistently over time.
I can think of two more benefits of the Rivet: shorter front end (bit easier to store in tight spaces than a frame + wheel) and it makes it easy to test position adjustments on the bike. If they've also thought about where the sweat will drip and keep thr price competitive this could be interesting.
As a Garmin Fenix 6 owner looking at a new watch soon, there’s 2 main things that I want from Apple before I’ll consider switching. First is something equivalent to body battery and training readiness that Garmin has. The second would require new hardware in September because without a leap in battery life I’m not interested no matter what software they add. My Fenix 6S is almost 5 years old and still has better battery life than even the Apple Watch Ultra
I just switched from a fenix 5s I’ve been using for the last close to 7 years and still actually loved but really wanted the ability to leave my phone behind. I actually thought I was going to end up wearing two watches (i got the Apple Watch 9 not ultra) so I planed to continue to use my Garmin to run and Apple Watch to replace phone. For fun I wanted to run them side by side for a few runs just to compare. I gave up my Garmin in 3 days…. The interface while running like starting and stopping isn’t as great as Garmin and yes I have to charge it every day and no it doesn’t have body battery but the heart rate data is more accurate and distance and pace are nearly identical. An app I’ve found people use for the recovery data.. kind of looks like whoop/garmin info is Athlytic. Also I find that having hrv which my garmin didn’t have.. maybe yours does being one generation newer.. but that’s the data they’re using so more accurate sleep, hrv, more accurate heart rate, more accurate VO2 max, hear rate recovery, you have everything you need to understand fitness level and recovery, but sounds like this Athlytic app will pull everything together for you. The battery is a fair issue- I regret now getting the 9 and if I had any idea I would have given up my garmin after a decade of dedicated garmin use I would have gone right for the ultra.. I chose not to because I thought I wouldn’t give up my garmin and it’s very big on my wrist.
@@notyouraveragevegan2677 thanks for the detailed response. My F6 does have HRV and agree with you about its importance. I’ve seen through various illnesses how HRV is a good marker of recovery, same with body battery. You mention that your F5 is 7 years old which is another reason I want to stay with Garmin because of the tiny battery in an Apple Watch the device is likely to be useless within 3 years. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like an Apple Watch, they definitely have plus points. I’ll probably wait to see what they announce in September before making a decision on my next watch
@@MattSwain1the longevity is a great point! I definitely thought that too, Apple will never last that long. I would definitely have waited until September but I just put a new fall marathon on the calendar and it’s been a few years since I’ve done a full and so I was eager to have the connectivity for this round of training. That’s where I went wrong though, not thinking I would give up my Garmin so I didn’t go with the ultra and now the battery definitely isn’t going to be enough for the long training runs so I’m going to have to make a decision at some point too. Go back to two watches or get the ultra. I really wish Garmin would give us real lte capabilities not just for emergency calls but they seem to have taken a firm stance.
Ok I know it’s probably tricky to logistically make it happen but the in-person version is HANDS-DOWN the best way to do it. So fun! Also psyched for the Apple Event… hoping they blow us away
Garmin's features are indeed industry lead stuff. But check their forum how much amateur bugs they introduce each and every iteration. Like HR isn't inaccurate, but hell buggy since months now. Not to mention sleep tracking. And then you'd trust their numbers they give you? I experience these bugs too, since months now, with a 1000 usd watch (epix pro gen2)
Okay, got a WWDC hope. WatchOS10 made a some tweaks to the UI that made the Digital Crown more useful with more vertical scrolling tied to it. I’m hoping to see another step in this direction. If Apple were to use the Digital Crown and side button more like Coros does with the crown for scrolling and enter/stop-start functionality and the side button as a back/lap button it would be hard to suggest another watch for most people.
I wonder if we might see the Watch lose it's iOS requirement finally. They allow that with Family Sharing (someone still needs an iPhone), but you can't just buy a Watch without an iPhone. That might be something Watch X (10) worthy. It would probably require some sort of additional Platform like you were discussing. They could even make it iCloud based (as well as iOS, iPadOS, MacOS) as you do not actually need an Apple device to make an iCloud Account (currently with Notes, Contacts, Numbers, Pages & Keynote as well as 1 GB of free iCloud Drive).
is it wrong that i want a beer now?.. it definitely is that i want a beer and a cookie! I can't make the openhouse in the evening (i have a running event in Haarlem in the evening).. but i will make the morning run!
Polar! My dream device is a cheap ankle strap that monitors and tracks everything a garmin watch does, just with no screen & everything is done on a phone. How is something like this on the market now.
Why don't Garmin allow it's HRM to be connected to Sleeping Apps? Why cant they create a mod gor GoPro to connect to Garmin to sync the GPS? Whyyyyyyyy!
Recovery and training effect features based on trimp, ctl and atl would be quite easy to implement, but HRV based recovery features (like Garmin, Whoop and Polar deliver during sleep) and wellness/stress features (like Whoop, Garmin and Oura give you during the day) would be a different kind of beast bc that would require many more hrv readings during the day, in the best case 24/ readings. As of right now, an Apple Watch only gives you HRV readings every 5 to 15 minutes if you have afib history enabled and way fewer data points if you do not. I doubt that existing watches will give us that with their HRM. If something like that is in its way (which I doubt), it will arrive with the new watches in spring with a new hrm.
Trimp,ctl and atl style training and recovery metrics would be nice. I’ve long suspected that a 24hour hrTss fed into a performance management system would give a TSB that is pretty close the usefulness people are looking for with HRV.
I wonder if Phil @worstretirementever has had these cookies. No offense, Des and Ray, but as this is the first time you've mentioned cookies that I can recall, I need Phil to confirm their status.
@@thefitfile I guess my impression of the Whoop is that it's not just the data, but the transformation into the higher level metrics, like sleep performance %, "recovery" %, and "strain", which to me seem hokey. I don't have one. I was under the impression that Polar doesn't do those higher level metrics. I don't have one of those either. Just seemed like they glossed over those things. I mean, if the ratings are relatively accurate, then probably they are very useful, but seems like the reviews are mixed. Sorry if I am mistaken.
Do yall think that Gopro maybe is purposely difficult with their API integration because they want THEIR accessories to always be the best to drive revenue? Kind of like how apple is purposely difficult in the watch integration. Just a thought given their remote works so well but nothing else works close to.
Oh I really like the trainer frame idea, as Des said, cost will determine success or failure
Nice episode. I like this more relaxed format.
If I may propose something to be discussed in future episodes is Garmin PR and product line up, such as how they interact with the community on Beta tests. That latest feature pack released came at the expense of previously working features such as custom power profiles no longer working, structured HIIT workouts with self-evaluation just corrupting the .fit file, etc. This also ties to a recurrent topic on why Garmin has so many different devices, UI differences, etc. It feels like their environment has so much potential but they end up hurting themselves with the business decision on having so many different and overlapping products in a non-standardized manner killing each other and making it difficult to maintain consistently over time.
Interesting topic proposition. Would love to see their opinion on that
The opener is EFFing awesome 👏 🎉
I can think of two more benefits of the Rivet: shorter front end (bit easier to store in tight spaces than a frame + wheel) and it makes it easy to test position adjustments on the bike. If they've also thought about where the sweat will drip and keep thr price competitive this could be interesting.
As a Garmin Fenix 6 owner looking at a new watch soon, there’s 2 main things that I want from Apple before I’ll consider switching. First is something equivalent to body battery and training readiness that Garmin has. The second would require new hardware in September because without a leap in battery life I’m not interested no matter what software they add. My Fenix 6S is almost 5 years old and still has better battery life than even the Apple Watch Ultra
I just switched from a fenix 5s I’ve been using for the last close to 7 years and still actually loved but really wanted the ability to leave my phone behind. I actually thought I was going to end up wearing two watches (i got the Apple Watch 9 not ultra) so I planed to continue to use my Garmin to run and Apple Watch to replace phone. For fun I wanted to run them side by side for a few runs just to compare. I gave up my Garmin in 3 days…. The interface while running like starting and stopping isn’t as great as Garmin and yes I have to charge it every day and no it doesn’t have body battery but the heart rate data is more accurate and distance and pace are nearly identical. An app I’ve found people use for the recovery data.. kind of looks like whoop/garmin info is Athlytic. Also I find that having hrv which my garmin didn’t have.. maybe yours does being one generation newer.. but that’s the data they’re using so more accurate sleep, hrv, more accurate heart rate, more accurate VO2 max, hear rate recovery, you have everything you need to understand fitness level and recovery, but sounds like this Athlytic app will pull everything together for you.
The battery is a fair issue- I regret now getting the 9 and if I had any idea I would have given up my garmin after a decade of dedicated garmin use I would have gone right for the ultra.. I chose not to because I thought I wouldn’t give up my garmin and it’s very big on my wrist.
@@notyouraveragevegan2677 thanks for the detailed response. My F6 does have HRV and agree with you about its importance. I’ve seen through various illnesses how HRV is a good marker of recovery, same with body battery. You mention that your F5 is 7 years old which is another reason I want to stay with Garmin because of the tiny battery in an Apple Watch the device is likely to be useless within 3 years.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d like an Apple Watch, they definitely have plus points. I’ll probably wait to see what they announce in September before making a decision on my next watch
@@MattSwain1the longevity is a great point! I definitely thought that too, Apple will never last that long. I would definitely have waited until September but I just put a new fall marathon on the calendar and it’s been a few years since I’ve done a full and so I was eager to have the connectivity for this round of training. That’s where I went wrong though, not thinking I would give up my Garmin so I didn’t go with the ultra and now the battery definitely isn’t going to be enough for the long training runs so I’m going to have to make a decision at some point too. Go back to two watches or get the ultra. I really wish Garmin would give us real lte capabilities not just for emergency calls but they seem to have taken a firm stance.
This is 🔥. Get GP Lama on here!
Ok I know it’s probably tricky to logistically make it happen but the in-person version is HANDS-DOWN the best way to do it. So fun!
Also psyched for the Apple Event… hoping they blow us away
Garmin's features are indeed industry lead stuff. But check their forum how much amateur bugs they introduce each and every iteration. Like HR isn't inaccurate, but hell buggy since months now. Not to mention sleep tracking. And then you'd trust their numbers they give you? I experience these bugs too, since months now, with a 1000 usd watch (epix pro gen2)
I call it Bugmin 😅
Wow, really nice skin collored watches! And also, Garmin should make a whoopsie strap.
Agree. If Garmin did something similar that was accurate, I would buy it in a heartbeat
I wonder if they were wearing pre-release watches...
Ray, I´ve a feeling, you're not in Kansas anymore. Looking forward to the podcast.
I tried to connect my various Gopro to my Wahoo Roam V2 but it didn't wok, hopefully they fix it soon.
*Giggly boiis* 😂
The Caveworks Rivet looks awesome!! One bike, all sizes, must be cheaper than other options, and is probably stiff as hell for sprints
My first look should be out later this week! (Des)
Cave works looks like a super cool idea. Zwift have one coming out next month to blow peleton out of the water
Are you testing the new Garmin watch and wasn’t allowed to put it on camera? 🤔
Okay, got a WWDC hope. WatchOS10 made a some tweaks to the UI that made the Digital Crown more useful with more vertical scrolling tied to it. I’m hoping to see another step in this direction. If Apple were to use the Digital Crown and side button more like Coros does with the crown for scrolling and enter/stop-start functionality and the side button as a back/lap button it would be hard to suggest another watch for most people.
You gotta send that bottle opener into GCNs Hack/Bodge.
I wonder if we might see the Watch lose it's iOS requirement finally. They allow that with Family Sharing (someone still needs an iPhone), but you can't just buy a Watch without an iPhone. That might be something Watch X (10) worthy. It would probably require some sort of additional Platform like you were discussing. They could even make it iCloud based (as well as iOS, iPadOS, MacOS) as you do not actually need an Apple device to make an iCloud Account (currently with Notes, Contacts, Numbers, Pages & Keynote as well as 1 GB of free iCloud Drive).
is it wrong that i want a beer now?.. it definitely is that i want a beer and a cookie!
I can't make the openhouse in the evening (i have a running event in Haarlem in the evening).. but i will make the morning run!
Polar! My dream device is a cheap ankle strap that monitors and tracks everything a garmin watch does, just with no screen & everything is done on a phone. How is something like this on the market now.
@20:43 also Coros does that. Much faster, also Android and also on devices without maps.
Garmin needs to make/sell one of those whoop like bands
I thought Des had a mohawk from the thumbnail 😂😂
“Pliny” (Roman writer) is pronounced “Plinny” with a short “I”…
Garmin Epix 3 en agosto del 2024???
Why don't Garmin allow it's HRM to be connected to Sleeping Apps? Why cant they create a mod gor GoPro to connect to Garmin to sync the GPS? Whyyyyyyyy!
Recovery and training effect features based on trimp, ctl and atl would be quite easy to implement, but HRV based recovery features (like Garmin, Whoop and Polar deliver during sleep) and wellness/stress features (like Whoop, Garmin and Oura give you during the day) would be a different kind of beast bc that would require many more hrv readings during the day, in the best case 24/ readings. As of right now, an Apple Watch only gives you HRV readings every 5 to 15 minutes if you have afib history enabled and way fewer data points if you do not.
I doubt that existing watches will give us that with their HRM. If something like that is in its way (which I doubt), it will arrive with the new watches in spring with a new hrm.
Trimp,ctl and atl style training and recovery metrics would be nice. I’ve long suspected that a 24hour hrTss fed into a performance management system would give a TSB that is pretty close the usefulness people are looking for with HRV.
@@sillydillybar Whomp, there it is: kinda trimp, CTlLand ATL based training effect stuff.
Of course completely bungled up, but still...
I wonder if Phil @worstretirementever has had these cookies. No offense, Des and Ray, but as this is the first time you've mentioned cookies that I can recall, I need Phil to confirm their status.
I believe he’s done a ride up that mountain before on the channel.
Seems like the reason is probably that the nature of that type of data is that it is iffy, and Polar doesn't want that stank on them.
They already do all this data today in their wearables.
@@thefitfile I guess my impression of the Whoop is that it's not just the data, but the transformation into the higher level metrics, like sleep performance %, "recovery" %, and "strain", which to me seem hokey. I don't have one. I was under the impression that Polar doesn't do those higher level metrics. I don't have one of those either. Just seemed like they glossed over those things. I mean, if the ratings are relatively accurate, then probably they are very useful, but seems like the reviews are mixed. Sorry if I am mistaken.
Am I the only one who has noticed (because Des isn’t in the centre like normal) that his background is digital!?!? 🤯
That’s a real background
👍👍👍👏👏👏🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹✌️
Do yall think that Gopro maybe is purposely difficult with their API integration because they want THEIR accessories to always be the best to drive revenue? Kind of like how apple is purposely difficult in the watch integration. Just a thought given their remote works so well but nothing else works close to.
Neither of you wearing watches seems a bit telling