Releasing this days before the next UA is released and Unarmed strikes are probably updated again is a really bold move Anyways can’t wait to see how the second vid on monks goes
15:00 One thing I feel could be mentioned is that this could somehow happen by casting the friends cantrip on the fighter, since that cantrip says the creature is considered hostile to you as soon as the spell ends It’s silly, but somehow RAW
Even if giving enemies grappling saves is technically better at the levels that see play I still don’t like the outcome of my grapple attempt being out of my hands. There’re all kinds of features I can use to make an attack more likely to hit, modifying a saving throw is far harder.
Yeah, it's the unfortunate downside. I'm fairly confident that they do not want to tie it to ability checks, purely because Expertise does nasty stuff to the maths, but that then only leaves attack rolls or saving throws. I think saving throws are more thematic, but they are obviously much harder to buff/debuff. I don't really mind that much which way they end up falling, as long as it's not back to ability checks.
Hope the rules favor my favorite style of fighting. I just wanna play as Kazuma Kiryu in a table top game damn it, the magic unarmed tattoo was designed for this for petes sake!
You gotta start at zero, one of if not the best. Great story, good goofy side stuff, two protags with awesome movesets. My favorites the grab focused style kiryu gets.
Yeah, I absolutely get you. It's something that's fairly easy to homebrew, because you only need to make the rules work for your table, but I think it's considerably harder to make a general rule for because there are a ton of edge cases.
I'm kind of okay with Unarmed not being Light or Finesse But I do think that Monks or Tavern Brawler should add the Finesse and Light property to Unarmed Strikes. My concern is that if Unarmed is by default finesse/light, does it make a Rouge with Sneak Attack better at unarmed than a Monk at no cost. I would also like to know how the new UA Mastery works with unarmed.
Yeah, absolutely. I wasn't suggesting making all unarmed strikes light and finesse, just for Monks. As for the Weapon Masteries, that's going to be a bit trickier. There are some really good ones, and currently unarmed strikes do not compete with the likes of Push and Topple. They'll need something good to compare. Something that I could see them doing is making a free, weaker version of Stunning Strike (in addition to regular SS) which applies the new dazed condition once per turn. That could be very worthwhile. I also think that if Push Mastery is 10 ft, then Tavern Brawler also needs to push 10 ft.
If you could opportunity attack your allies, I would warcast buff spells on them. In that scenario, rather than having them close their eyes, I would cast longstrider on them
Yeah, that would be an option I guess. Obviously a lot of characters don't have that combo, whereas everyone has shove, but casting Longstrider would be more reliable. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Warcaster in ONE D&D is kind of already a completely busted feat that desperately needs a nerf (this is because it's now a half feat, so there's absolutely no opportunity cost compared to choosing something like Fey Touched or just an ASI).
I supposed They could overhaul stunning fist and turn it into a focused strike, it could be a pseudo sneak attack, adding an extra die of damage on the first hit in a combat round, then at 5th level you could instead elect to stun(or the new staggered condition) the target(I suggest auto stun until the end of the targets next turn, so it always works and no saving throw to shake it) at 11th level the damage could increase to 2d6 and if you lean into the "monk" aspect you could add an elemental damage component of your choice to the attack (elemental strike). On 17 you could add an option to give the creature vulnerability to all damage until the end of its next turn (for a tactical group based buff) or get an extra 3d6 points of damage. this would all be once per turn on your first unarmed strike hit and you only pick one of your available options either increased damage / elemental damage, stun or vulnerability to damage. Open hand monk could then either boost these options by adding effects or allowing you to choose two effects or allowing the use of 2 different effects each round. Imo fist of the element monk should just be an Avatar style bender (we all think it and want it), giving you reach / range on your unarmed strikes, then out of combat utility based on the elements chosen. Shadow monks would then lean more heavily into assassination / ninja theming. I think this would not be overly imbalanced especially if it scales with monk level only, theming is on point.
I honestly really struggle to come up with ideas for Monk 'things', mainly because I just don't really like the theming of the Monk. One thing that I did consider though was giving the Monk 'Stances' that they can enter. Maybe have a few generic ones, and then give each subclass a unique Stance as well. These could give a variety of buffs between better defences, better movement, Element could give your reach/range, and all sorts of other stuff.
Can I take the shove action on myself to break the grapple though as an alternative to "escaping". Using an attack is better action economy than using an action. I wouldn't allow it but its interesting.
You bring up some good points I hadn't considered, like the ability to Grapple or Shove as an Opp Attack now. But for me personally, that's about the only positive change in my eyes as someone who loves to play barbarians with Skill Expert (Athletics for Expertise.). Grappling/Shoving is such an underrated use of your attacks imo in 5e. Within 5ft of someone and want to move away, but still want to deal damage that turn? First attack is a weapon attack, secondly attack is a Shove 5ft away for a free disengage. Even without Extra Attack Shoving someone can be just as effective as Disengage because it could potentially prevent your fellow PCs from having to Disengage on their turn to get out of a funky situation; a two+ for the price of one deal. Personally, I hate the change to a saving throws that's based off of a successful attack roll. Call it bias, looking through rose tinted glasses or whatever, but I prefer the contested skill check. With the skill check, there are a bunch of ways to influence your roll: - Advantage (Rage, Enhance Ability, Help action.) - Expertise. - Guidance (for whatever reason.) - Bardic Inspiration. - Enlarge, Rune Knight's Giant Might (to help with grappling larger foes.) - Less likely to suffer Disadvantage (RAW Blindness imposes Disadvantage on attack rolls, but not Athletics checks to grapple because you technically don't need to see the target to make an attempt since you always at least know an Invisible person's position unless they take the Hide action.). - Hex in the opponent to potentially make them worse at escaping. - Most creatures aren't very likely to have Athletics or Acrobatics Proficiencies, whereas many have saving throw Proficiencies. - Etc. Etc. I know grappling was/is a very niche thing in 5e, and isn't the most optimal way to play... but damn it, it's fun. Downright cathartic if you ask me, and I've used it to pin tricky flying enemies down numerous times. ETA: I do like the buffs to the grapple focus feats, too, alongside the ability to Smite on UAs finally. Also, have they mentioned if the Monk will have a feature that changes the DC calculations for Grapple/ Shove from Str based to Dex based? Because if they don't, I don't really see any point for Monk to focus on Grapple/Shove attempts as they'll just be mediocre to subpar at it.
Last point first because it has a definitive answer, They haven't said anything about Monk DCs yet. If they do forget about this, we all need to yell at them so they fix it because Monk actually NEEDS that. As for the rest, I think that the multitude of ways to influence your roll is probably the exact reason why they changed it from an ability check. Grappling was too easy. Do I personally think that's an issue? Only when it comes to escape attempts. I think that the act of grappling someone should be easy enough to make it viable, but escaping grapples should not be super difficult, because lockdowns aren't fun.
@@the_twig131 I'd argue grapples, as far as creatures go, was never that bad. Nearly every creature I can think of that grapples or restrains does so on a hit (the easy to initiate part.), but has a simple DC to escape as an Action (also leagues easier than a contested check against someone built to grapple things.). In terms of creatures grappling as their Action, I can only think of one instance in my entire D&D career where I've seen a DM say "this creature is using its Action to make a Grapple check against you." It's also something I've never heard/ read other DMs doing. I know that's anecdotal at best, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I just don't think creatures having insane, PC style grappling is all that common/ abused. Which comes to the player side: grappling/ Shoving, and the act of being good enough at it that it's actually viable over just killing the thing faster, requires proper build paths just as every other good combo in the game. Even then, it's still not half as good as the best combos in the game, while also being limited in scope. Because let's face it: something like Sharpshooter + Elven Accuracy was and will always be better, or GWM with any source of Advantage; even the revised iterations of those feats are still better than most instances of grappling in 5e. Grappling and locking a medium creature would be easy, but it meant you couldn't benefit from a shield or use big damage weapons and your movement was shotty at best. Shoving someone 5ft is a good form of Disengage that let's you also let's you make another Attack and is probably your best option here. Shoving someone prone helps your melee allies, but by hindering your ranged allies. On top of all that, there was the size limitation; meaning you weren't tripping giants or dragons or anything iconicly dangerous at high levels of play. So while it had the potential to be good, the only time it could be "broken or OP" required both feat taxes/ level dips and also had opportunity costs with it. Hardly anything actually broken. Idk, I never saw having a grapple/ Shove focused build as all that problematic or broken in 5e. Maybe in niche situations? So this all just feels less like nerfing a broken build and more like simplifying everything to the point a monkey can do it. It's just one of the litany of reasons I'm sticking with 5e until nobody plays it anymore. I guess I'm hoping the martial classes UA will give me a reason to want to play it, but the direction every other class has gone in gives me doubt.
Reapor, you have mimic'd my exact sentiments. I'm also in the small minority that has been playing a grappler in 5E for 3 years now. The biggest disappointment is the grapple being a saving throw. The grappler feats dont make me any better at grappling, they let me add a bit of damage while leaving the creature equally as likely to escape my grapple. I'm glad breaking a grapple at least eats an action, but it's a shame it's all based on a DC that I can't really touch. I do like that its more integrated into the unarmed strike and opportunity attack, but killing the niche build is unfortunate. Hell, the grappler feat could allow you to contest their attempt to break the grapple with an athletics.
@@Seventh- yeah, feels kind of strange that my hulking barbarian can't dynamically increase my grapple DC in any way. Hell, I can't even realistically make it harder for them to escape either since I can't think of any non spell method to hinder them (via Disadvantage or a decrease in their saving throw like Bane.). But who knows, maybe the Warrior classes will have something that allows us to alter grapples. I'm holding out hope, but it doesn't look good.
In 5E, no. It says "Using at least one free hand". In ONE D&D, if you're going to be really pedantic I guess? It says "This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it". Obviously it's implying that you use the hand to do the grapple, but it doesn't actually say that you must use the hand.
As a Fighter I don't think it's fair that grappling should be nerfed for the sake of monsters being no longer able to grapple, especially since those grapples can just have DCs for their saves anyway. Grappling in this is just a waste of an attack, there's no damage, and since there's no damage you've wasted not only your action(which, at levels 1-4 are crucial for a Fighter) but also potentially done nothing on your turn at all, whereas with expertise in athletics you could at least guarantee that you can lock a monster down.
I mean, I get that it feels different when it's you rolling the d20 vs the DM rolling it, but... you know that the hand of the roller doesn't affect the outcome, right? Grappling in 5e ALREADY can be a waste of an attack, with no damage, which will waste your whole action at levels 1-4, potentially doing nothing at all. Expertise is not a Fighter feature anyway.
I think that disassociating expertise from grappling is a good idea, because unbreakable grapples weren't very good from a gameplay sense. Unfortunately because 5E only has three different rolls, there's not many options. That means that you either need attack rolls or saving throws. Of the two options, saving throws are definitely the most thematic. Ultimately I think that this is an issue with expertise more than anything else.
@@the_twig131 In that context I'd argue the DC should be able to be increased exponentially higher(at maximum a 10th level fighter won't even be able to grapple most creatures within that rough CR range because the DC is all-or-nothing and is so low). I don't like the imposition of Saves for a single-target action in general. It denies a playstyle that was easy to obtain and maintain as a Fighter, Barbarian or Monk. REMOVING options from Martials - regardless for what purpose, be it identity or mechanics - is not a good idea considering spellcasting is already monumentally stronger.
Yep, that's right. It's not infinite unlike the standard carrying a ball and passing it from person to person, since triggering an OA requires a creature to move, but if you start a battle in a really awkward formation, the front-liner can be boosted forward by the entire party.
Boxer Dena is adorable, but I was NOT expecting a Lopunny stand. 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 3d6. Try running the numbers with it! Treantmonk suggested this progression and I've playtested it. It's very modest but was still trailing a tiny bit, so I think with the buff to Unarmed Strikes, it might now hold up. But... we haven't seen the weapon buff changes fully yet. So that's yet to be seen. Similarly though, reducing the ki cost or removing it is absolutely needed. Step of the Wind should NOT cost ki. Stunning Strike should get Proficiency Bonus free uses per short rest or something. Quickened Healing should cost 1 at most, maybe even get some free uses. Empty Body should DEFINITELY NOT cost ki since it's 18th-level. I think Treantmonk suggested making it a bonus action, too, which is honestly fine. I _absolutely love_ the idea of monk Unarmed Strikes being considered light and finesse weapons. Really plays into the "my firsts are registered weapons" vibe. I do think the name "monk" is fine, though. Time has watered it down, and also there are many, MANY very different sects of monks. So the idea of a sect of pugilist monks is not only historically plausible (accurate?) but perhaps even likely. As to what monks should be able to do that's unique to them? I've always thought Monks should be a master of battlefield manipulation. Be it swapping places with an ally or enemy, or pushing/pulling enemies with their strikes. What's more monk than a rapid-fire flurry of attacks followed by a concussive palm thrust that blows the enemy backwards? Perhaps also something to negate difficult terrain as they just delicately sprint across the tops of branches and debris, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon style. I like things that make them agile, quick and smart to get them in and out of melee and position themselves where they can unleash their fury. But maybe also something like Improvised Cover, where a monk who takes cover can react swiftly and lift random objects to block attacks, upgrading no cover to half cover if they have some debris or objects to use like a chair or a dead enemy's shield, and upgrade half cover to three quarters, and 3/4 to full. It also has synergy with their increased movement speed, letting them use the battlefield to their advantage better than anyone else, and make up for them being a bit squishy for a front-liner.
I just had to put a JoJoke in there, it's punching people with the power of light. Yeah, I remember Treantmonk's video about that. I think it's interesting, but I don't think it's intuitive. Part of the aim of the design of the core classes is that they need to be really easy to understand at least the surface level features from a first reading. Treantmonk's progression probably doesn't meet that requirement. Something that I've been thinking about is the Monk 'thing' being special stances. They can enter a stance as a bonus action, and then it gives them a special effect. There would be some core ones that all monks get, and then each subclass would get a special one as well.
@@the_twig131 Ah, nice! Yeah, stances is a great idea, too. It would of course all come down to what exactly they could do, but I could think of lots of neat things. n_n
I'm not sure the escape opportunity is that big a deal. Most of the time I've seen people use the fact that any non-speed movement breaks the grapple used to cheese the high escape DC. You can use shove, casters would often use the 1st lvl spell thunderwave and if you have crusher it's as easy as hitting once. Of course these effects suddenly stop working on anything with a size difference of 3+ but then you've got other problems. This even prompted an ad-hoc judgement from my DM to adjust the rules when I tried to hit myself with a crusher effect to free myself from 3 grapples at once, which I honestly took gracefully because that was cheesy. I doubt the new grappler feat should let you grapple with an attack roll as I was very skeptical of attack roll maneuvers in general. That makes one level dip of monk for martial arts (or no investment at all if unarmed becomes finesse by default) all you need to make STR completely obsolete as athletics only use becomes climbing and swimming and you can get innate speeds for that or just use gear or spells. The attack roll shove on tavern brawler is fine if only because shove 5ft is worth so little in 5e. If smite has been changed to work with unarmed it's probably a given but I hope to see rage work with unarmed strikes (not like that wasn't an easy thing to convince you DM to allow but anyways). The unarmed fighting style for a d8 strike (d6 while grappling) and small d4 bonus dmg if you start a turn grappling could have gotten a mention but it's easy to overlook when you have a monk as a base for an unarmed character in mind. What I like most about all the changes is that basically nothing calls for your bonus action anymore. This really opens up unarmed fighting for being a lower damage but high number of actions per turn play style, which is a godsend for martials that pretty much take the attack action every turn. As always great video, even tempting me to pick 5e back up lol.
Got to say that I always look forward to see what you have to say. With regards to using non-speed movement to break grapples, I think that's probably only really common at tables with higher skill levelled players. In my opinion that's not what the game is or should be balanced around. Thunderwave might come up at the average table, but probably only at low levels. Once you have Fireball, I expect most players will forget about or unprepare Thunderwave. I think that grappling and shoving has deliberately been disassociated from athletics, purely because of Expertise. 5E has a fairly flat curve when it comes to roll scaling, so Expertise was just extremely powerful in the context of grappling and shoving. That leaves attack rolls or saving throws, and saving throws are probably the more thematic one. This does mean however that Athletics absolutely tanks in terms of skill priority. That's something I'm hoping they fix actually, there should be more obvious ways to use different skills. Anyway, back to the point. I don't think that having the Monk dip be good is an issue. Most classes have a good dip, whether that's for Reckless Attack, Find Familiar and Shield, Sorc's CON saves, Cleric's armour, Agonizing Blast, or whatever else. Why should the Monk be any different? I didn't mention Unarmed Fighting Style, because I don't normally consider 2014 features, unless they are for comparison or there are no ONE D&D alternatives. Yeah, having the bonus action slot be much more available is wonderful. It gives so much more versatility, and pushes other features up in comparison to the standard old PAM/CBX builds.
@@the_twig131 I'm not against the monk dip being powerful, it's always been a one level easy access to useful features. I just meant that the CO version of maneuvers working with dex attack rolls is just furthering the superiority of dex over strength which is already pretty big. I guess the escape DC is still strength... The saving throw version makes more sense imo. It's a bit annoying to not get to roll as a player but you could have mechanically the same thing by making athletics a not-skill (like perception in pf2)
That also just increases the die. It still doesn't stack with anything. It's technically the quickest way to increase your die, but it doesn't really change that much. As for the grappling stuff, that technically has no impact on Unarmed Strikes in 2014, since grappling is still a special attack. As for why I didn't mention it in the main part of the video, I tend not to talk about things from 2014 5E which do not have a comparable equivalent in ONE D&D, unless they have some fundamentally interesting mechanics, such as with the opportunity attacks.
Honestly monk could be renamed to Martial Artist and just Dip into actual forms for features and flavor. The unique Feature could prob be an Active/passive- Pro/Con set of stances.
@@the_twig131 ,🥲 maybe they shouldnt give everyone proficiency in all arms and armor at 1st lvl that might open up some unique ness for the fighter? But let's see how they make every fighter level meaningful similar to casters gaining access to multiple new abilities (spells) every
The thing you said about monks needing their special thing is pretty true. In my game, I've gone about trying to make it into a thing, I've done some preliminary homebrewing of all martial classes. I have a very great distaste for the fighter from 2014 in particular. I've made the following changes: - Fighter - Battle Master is basically part of the core class with some changes. I've removed the extra attacks at level 11 and 20. Basically, the fighter isn't just a windmill, but actually the master of the battlefield, able to control it with maneuvers. - Barbarian - removed Reckless Attack and added Reckless Rage - doubling rage damage for an AC penalty. The barbarian should be a brute force machine, and reckless attack didn't really fit into that vision that much. Oh, and also reworked Brutal Critical to be actually a useful feature. - Rogue - removed the "Once per turn" restriction on Sneak Attack, but decreased the scaling on sneak attack. That way, rogues can get cooler subclass features that say, for example, you can forgo sneak attack damage on the attack, but you can do X. (sort of a pathfinder version of sneak attack). - Monk - monk, I haven't really figured out yet what their "thing" could be. The one thing that always stood out to me was - Why can a fighter with a greatsword make 4 attacks with 1 action, but a monk not only can do only 2, but if they wanna do more, they gotta use a bonus action? A dude with his fists attacks slower than a dude with a giant piece of metal. And it costs him "mystical energy" to do so? I think the "thing" the monk can have is being the only class that can reliably make more attacks per turn. Basically, what the fighter was, but now actually making sense. And, not costing extra Ki of course.
I actually quite like all of those changes. Fighter just doing more attacks than anyone else doesn't make much sense, but being more of a commander or tactician does. For Monk's special thing, I find it a bit tricky to think of something, probably because I just don't like the theming of the Monk (hence why I want the brawler class instead). Having lots of attacks is fine, but I still don't think it's great. I have been considering some kind of 'stances'. Maybe two default ones and then an extra one for each subclass. You'd spend a Ki point to enter a stance, and then you just stay in it until you're unconscious. To be honest, the three features from Ki would make fine stances. Flurry Stance would give you an extra Unarmed Strike, Patient Stance would give you an AC boost and maybe a second reaction (with limitations on what you can use it for), and Wind Stance (Swift Stance?) would boost your jumps and give you Flyby.
@@the_twig131 yeah, I've been wondering how to basically take the PF2e monk and make them into a 5e class, but it's a bit hard. I'm still bonking my head against the wall on that one. they still kind of suffer the theming problem, but it's not that big of an issue there, since it at least supports all sorts of archetypes without being hindered if you don't build basically Dex-based. I can provide a link to a google drive with my changes if you'd be interested.
I cannot express in words how much this video has changed my life. I have watched it countless times, and each time I watch it, I discover something new and profound that I had previously missed. The video is about the meaning of life, and it has given me a new perspective on how to live my own. The video is so powerful and thought-provoking that it has become an obsession for me. I have spent countless hours analyzing every frame, every word, and every nuance of the video. I have replayed it so many times that I can recite it by heart. I have even taken notes on it, trying to capture every single idea and concept that the video presents. The video has given me a sense of purpose and direction in my life. It has helped me to understand that life is not just about material possessions or worldly success, but about living a meaningful life that makes a positive impact on the world around us. It has taught me that life is about making connections with others and helping others to find their own meaning and purpose in life. The video has also helped me to let go of my fears and insecurities. It has taught me to be courageous and to take risks in life, even when the outcome is uncertain. It has taught me to be resilient and to keep going, even when things get tough. I cannot recommend this video enough. It is truly a work of art and a masterpiece of storytelling. It has changed my life in ways that I never thought possible. I urge everyone to watch it and to let it change their lives as well. It is a video that will stay with me forever, a constant reminder of the beauty and wonder of life.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
Liking and commenting even though I've sworn off of D&D because Good Buneary Teacher deserves.
Same
agreed
I love how deeply you think about the rules, i could listen to you talk for hours
Releasing this days before the next UA is released and Unarmed strikes are probably updated again is a really bold move
Anyways can’t wait to see how the second vid on monks goes
I've attempted to release this video immediately before the last two UAs too. I just decided that if they're doing Monk anyway, I can do a top up.
15:00 One thing I feel could be mentioned is that this could somehow happen by casting the friends cantrip on the fighter, since that cantrip says the creature is considered hostile to you as soon as the spell ends
It’s silly, but somehow RAW
You're right, that would work. Weird silly RAW is always fun.
Watching later but commenting now because these are fire
I think the Warriors and Mages UA will be out this week, looking forward to your video on monks!
Yeah, I'm expecting either this week or next week.
Keep up the diligent work Bunny!
Will do. I'm expecting Warriors and Mages either this week or next week, so I should have more stuff for you soon.
Even if giving enemies grappling saves is technically better at the levels that see play I still don’t like the outcome of my grapple attempt being out of my hands. There’re all kinds of features I can use to make an attack more likely to hit, modifying a saving throw is far harder.
Yeah, it's the unfortunate downside. I'm fairly confident that they do not want to tie it to ability checks, purely because Expertise does nasty stuff to the maths, but that then only leaves attack rolls or saving throws. I think saving throws are more thematic, but they are obviously much harder to buff/debuff. I don't really mind that much which way they end up falling, as long as it's not back to ability checks.
Waiting for your vidoes for they're always amazing!
I'm actually annoyed at how unknown your wisdom is... More people should know!
Amen. Praise to our lord and savior, Bunjesus!
Hope the rules favor my favorite style of fighting.
I just wanna play as Kazuma Kiryu in a table top game damn it, the magic unarmed tattoo was designed for this for petes sake!
I've been meaning to play Yakuza for ages, but just never got round to it. It looks super fun.
You gotta start at zero, one of if not the best. Great story, good goofy side stuff, two protags with awesome movesets.
My favorites the grab focused style kiryu gets.
I still feel we need a way to make forced movement against the victim of the grapple rely on the stats of the grappler and not the victim.
Yeah, I absolutely get you. It's something that's fairly easy to homebrew, because you only need to make the rules work for your table, but I think it's considerably harder to make a general rule for because there are a ton of edge cases.
Algorithm post
Don’t have time to watch yet but excited for this one 👍🏻
I'm kind of okay with Unarmed not being Light or Finesse But I do think that Monks or Tavern Brawler should add the Finesse and Light property to Unarmed Strikes. My concern is that if Unarmed is by default finesse/light, does it make a Rouge with Sneak Attack better at unarmed than a Monk at no cost. I would also like to know how the new UA Mastery works with unarmed.
Yeah, absolutely. I wasn't suggesting making all unarmed strikes light and finesse, just for Monks.
As for the Weapon Masteries, that's going to be a bit trickier. There are some really good ones, and currently unarmed strikes do not compete with the likes of Push and Topple. They'll need something good to compare. Something that I could see them doing is making a free, weaker version of Stunning Strike (in addition to regular SS) which applies the new dazed condition once per turn. That could be very worthwhile. I also think that if Push Mastery is 10 ft, then Tavern Brawler also needs to push 10 ft.
If you could opportunity attack your allies, I would warcast buff spells on them. In that scenario, rather than having them close their eyes, I would cast longstrider on them
Yeah, that would be an option I guess. Obviously a lot of characters don't have that combo, whereas everyone has shove, but casting Longstrider would be more reliable.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Warcaster in ONE D&D is kind of already a completely busted feat that desperately needs a nerf (this is because it's now a half feat, so there's absolutely no opportunity cost compared to choosing something like Fey Touched or just an ASI).
I supposed They could overhaul stunning fist and turn it into a focused strike, it could be a pseudo sneak attack, adding an extra die of damage on the first hit in a combat round, then at 5th level you could instead elect to stun(or the new staggered condition) the target(I suggest auto stun until the end of the targets next turn, so it always works and no saving throw to shake it) at 11th level the damage could increase to 2d6 and if you lean into the "monk" aspect you could add an elemental damage component of your choice to the attack (elemental strike). On 17 you could add an option to give the creature vulnerability to all damage until the end of its next turn (for a tactical group based buff) or get an extra 3d6 points of damage.
this would all be once per turn on your first unarmed strike hit and you only pick one of your available options either increased damage / elemental damage, stun or vulnerability to damage. Open hand monk could then either boost these options by adding effects or allowing you to choose two effects or allowing the use of 2 different effects each round.
Imo fist of the element monk should just be an Avatar style bender (we all think it and want it), giving you reach / range on your unarmed strikes, then out of combat utility based on the elements chosen.
Shadow monks would then lean more heavily into assassination / ninja theming.
I think this would not be overly imbalanced especially if it scales with monk level only, theming is on point.
I honestly really struggle to come up with ideas for Monk 'things', mainly because I just don't really like the theming of the Monk. One thing that I did consider though was giving the Monk 'Stances' that they can enter. Maybe have a few generic ones, and then give each subclass a unique Stance as well. These could give a variety of buffs between better defences, better movement, Element could give your reach/range, and all sorts of other stuff.
Can I take the shove action on myself to break the grapple though as an alternative to "escaping". Using an attack is better action economy than using an action. I wouldn't allow it but its interesting.
I don't see why not. I agree that it's a bit weird, you can't really push yourself because of Newton's third law.
Wotc should hire you
Unfortunately I don't think WotC have a UK office. I definitely think you should set one up though if you're reading Jeremy.
You bring up some good points I hadn't considered, like the ability to Grapple or Shove as an Opp Attack now. But for me personally, that's about the only positive change in my eyes as someone who loves to play barbarians with Skill Expert (Athletics for Expertise.). Grappling/Shoving is such an underrated use of your attacks imo in 5e.
Within 5ft of someone and want to move away, but still want to deal damage that turn? First attack is a weapon attack, secondly attack is a Shove 5ft away for a free disengage. Even without Extra Attack Shoving someone can be just as effective as Disengage because it could potentially prevent your fellow PCs from having to Disengage on their turn to get out of a funky situation; a two+ for the price of one deal.
Personally, I hate the change to a saving throws that's based off of a successful attack roll. Call it bias, looking through rose tinted glasses or whatever, but I prefer the contested skill check.
With the skill check, there are a bunch of ways to influence your roll:
- Advantage (Rage, Enhance Ability, Help action.)
- Expertise.
- Guidance (for whatever reason.)
- Bardic Inspiration.
- Enlarge, Rune Knight's Giant Might (to help with grappling larger foes.)
- Less likely to suffer Disadvantage (RAW Blindness imposes Disadvantage on attack rolls, but not Athletics checks to grapple because you technically don't need to see the target to make an attempt since you always at least know an Invisible person's position unless they take the Hide action.).
- Hex in the opponent to potentially make them worse at escaping.
- Most creatures aren't very likely to have Athletics or Acrobatics Proficiencies, whereas many have saving throw Proficiencies.
- Etc. Etc.
I know grappling was/is a very niche thing in 5e, and isn't the most optimal way to play... but damn it, it's fun. Downright cathartic if you ask me, and I've used it to pin tricky flying enemies down numerous times.
ETA: I do like the buffs to the grapple focus feats, too, alongside the ability to Smite on UAs finally. Also, have they mentioned if the Monk will have a feature that changes the DC calculations for Grapple/ Shove from Str based to Dex based? Because if they don't, I don't really see any point for Monk to focus on Grapple/Shove attempts as they'll just be mediocre to subpar at it.
Last point first because it has a definitive answer, They haven't said anything about Monk DCs yet. If they do forget about this, we all need to yell at them so they fix it because Monk actually NEEDS that.
As for the rest, I think that the multitude of ways to influence your roll is probably the exact reason why they changed it from an ability check. Grappling was too easy. Do I personally think that's an issue? Only when it comes to escape attempts. I think that the act of grappling someone should be easy enough to make it viable, but escaping grapples should not be super difficult, because lockdowns aren't fun.
@@the_twig131 I'd argue grapples, as far as creatures go, was never that bad. Nearly every creature I can think of that grapples or restrains does so on a hit (the easy to initiate part.), but has a simple DC to escape as an Action (also leagues easier than a contested check against someone built to grapple things.). In terms of creatures grappling as their Action, I can only think of one instance in my entire D&D career where I've seen a DM say "this creature is using its Action to make a Grapple check against you." It's also something I've never heard/ read other DMs doing. I know that's anecdotal at best, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I just don't think creatures having insane, PC style grappling is all that common/ abused.
Which comes to the player side: grappling/ Shoving, and the act of being good enough at it that it's actually viable over just killing the thing faster, requires proper build paths just as every other good combo in the game. Even then, it's still not half as good as the best combos in the game, while also being limited in scope.
Because let's face it: something like Sharpshooter + Elven Accuracy was and will always be better, or GWM with any source of Advantage; even the revised iterations of those feats are still better than most instances of grappling in 5e. Grappling and locking a medium creature would be easy, but it meant you couldn't benefit from a shield or use big damage weapons and your movement was shotty at best. Shoving someone 5ft is a good form of Disengage that let's you also let's you make another Attack and is probably your best option here. Shoving someone prone helps your melee allies, but by hindering your ranged allies. On top of all that, there was the size limitation; meaning you weren't tripping giants or dragons or anything iconicly dangerous at high levels of play.
So while it had the potential to be good, the only time it could be "broken or OP" required both feat taxes/ level dips and also had opportunity costs with it. Hardly anything actually broken.
Idk, I never saw having a grapple/ Shove focused build as all that problematic or broken in 5e. Maybe in niche situations? So this all just feels less like nerfing a broken build and more like simplifying everything to the point a monkey can do it. It's just one of the litany of reasons I'm sticking with 5e until nobody plays it anymore. I guess I'm hoping the martial classes UA will give me a reason to want to play it, but the direction every other class has gone in gives me doubt.
Reapor, you have mimic'd my exact sentiments. I'm also in the small minority that has been playing a grappler in 5E for 3 years now.
The biggest disappointment is the grapple being a saving throw. The grappler feats dont make me any better at grappling, they let me add a bit of damage while leaving the creature equally as likely to escape my grapple.
I'm glad breaking a grapple at least eats an action, but it's a shame it's all based on a DC that I can't really touch.
I do like that its more integrated into the unarmed strike and opportunity attack, but killing the niche build is unfortunate.
Hell, the grappler feat could allow you to contest their attempt to break the grapple with an athletics.
@@Seventh- yeah, feels kind of strange that my hulking barbarian can't dynamically increase my grapple DC in any way. Hell, I can't even realistically make it harder for them to escape either since I can't think of any non spell method to hinder them (via Disadvantage or a decrease in their saving throw like Bane.).
But who knows, maybe the Warrior classes will have something that allows us to alter grapples. I'm holding out hope, but it doesn't look good.
i do miss the end of turn escape
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is my favorite dnd book
Yeah, that was a flub.
I mean there are way worse thens you can do then just punch as a monk
I can jump into the lava.
Damn, you're right, I'm a fraud.
hang on, can you grapple with your legs in 5e as long as you have an empty hand?
In 5E, no. It says "Using at least one free hand".
In ONE D&D, if you're going to be really pedantic I guess? It says "This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it". Obviously it's implying that you use the hand to do the grapple, but it doesn't actually say that you must use the hand.
Oh, the mega loppuny, my fav mega, :)
As a Fighter I don't think it's fair that grappling should be nerfed for the sake of monsters being no longer able to grapple, especially since those grapples can just have DCs for their saves anyway.
Grappling in this is just a waste of an attack, there's no damage, and since there's no damage you've wasted not only your action(which, at levels 1-4 are crucial for a Fighter) but also potentially done nothing on your turn at all, whereas with expertise in athletics you could at least guarantee that you can lock a monster down.
I mean, I get that it feels different when it's you rolling the d20 vs the DM rolling it, but... you know that the hand of the roller doesn't affect the outcome, right? Grappling in 5e ALREADY can be a waste of an attack, with no damage, which will waste your whole action at levels 1-4, potentially doing nothing at all.
Expertise is not a Fighter feature anyway.
I think that disassociating expertise from grappling is a good idea, because unbreakable grapples weren't very good from a gameplay sense. Unfortunately because 5E only has three different rolls, there's not many options. That means that you either need attack rolls or saving throws. Of the two options, saving throws are definitely the most thematic.
Ultimately I think that this is an issue with expertise more than anything else.
@@Samuel_Kabel fighters get more ASI for feats and skill expert is a feat, it's basically intended that str-based fighters pick that up ;)
@@merovetouchstone Crusher Piercer Slasher HAM
@@the_twig131 In that context I'd argue the DC should be able to be increased exponentially higher(at maximum a 10th level fighter won't even be able to grapple most creatures within that rough CR range because the DC is all-or-nothing and is so low).
I don't like the imposition of Saves for a single-target action in general. It denies a playstyle that was easy to obtain and maintain as a Fighter, Barbarian or Monk. REMOVING options from Martials - regardless for what purpose, be it identity or mechanics - is not a good idea considering spellcasting is already monumentally stronger.
Wait?! Peasant railgun with shove?
Yep, that's right. It's not infinite unlike the standard carrying a ball and passing it from person to person, since triggering an OA requires a creature to move, but if you start a battle in a really awkward formation, the front-liner can be boosted forward by the entire party.
Boxer Dena is adorable, but I was NOT expecting a Lopunny stand. 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 3d6. Try running the numbers with it! Treantmonk suggested this progression and I've playtested it. It's very modest but was still trailing a tiny bit, so I think with the buff to Unarmed Strikes, it might now hold up. But... we haven't seen the weapon buff changes fully yet. So that's yet to be seen. Similarly though, reducing the ki cost or removing it is absolutely needed. Step of the Wind should NOT cost ki. Stunning Strike should get Proficiency Bonus free uses per short rest or something. Quickened Healing should cost 1 at most, maybe even get some free uses. Empty Body should DEFINITELY NOT cost ki since it's 18th-level. I think Treantmonk suggested making it a bonus action, too, which is honestly fine.
I _absolutely love_ the idea of monk Unarmed Strikes being considered light and finesse weapons. Really plays into the "my firsts are registered weapons" vibe.
I do think the name "monk" is fine, though. Time has watered it down, and also there are many, MANY very different sects of monks. So the idea of a sect of pugilist monks is not only historically plausible (accurate?) but perhaps even likely.
As to what monks should be able to do that's unique to them? I've always thought Monks should be a master of battlefield manipulation. Be it swapping places with an ally or enemy, or pushing/pulling enemies with their strikes. What's more monk than a rapid-fire flurry of attacks followed by a concussive palm thrust that blows the enemy backwards? Perhaps also something to negate difficult terrain as they just delicately sprint across the tops of branches and debris, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon style. I like things that make them agile, quick and smart to get them in and out of melee and position themselves where they can unleash their fury. But maybe also something like Improvised Cover, where a monk who takes cover can react swiftly and lift random objects to block attacks, upgrading no cover to half cover if they have some debris or objects to use like a chair or a dead enemy's shield, and upgrade half cover to three quarters, and 3/4 to full. It also has synergy with their increased movement speed, letting them use the battlefield to their advantage better than anyone else, and make up for them being a bit squishy for a front-liner.
I just had to put a JoJoke in there, it's punching people with the power of light.
Yeah, I remember Treantmonk's video about that. I think it's interesting, but I don't think it's intuitive. Part of the aim of the design of the core classes is that they need to be really easy to understand at least the surface level features from a first reading. Treantmonk's progression probably doesn't meet that requirement.
Something that I've been thinking about is the Monk 'thing' being special stances. They can enter a stance as a bonus action, and then it gives them a special effect. There would be some core ones that all monks get, and then each subclass would get a special one as well.
@@the_twig131 Ah, nice! Yeah, stances is a great idea, too. It would of course all come down to what exactly they could do, but I could think of lots of neat things. n_n
I'm not sure the escape opportunity is that big a deal. Most of the time I've seen people use the fact that any non-speed movement breaks the grapple used to cheese the high escape DC. You can use shove, casters would often use the 1st lvl spell thunderwave and if you have crusher it's as easy as hitting once. Of course these effects suddenly stop working on anything with a size difference of 3+ but then you've got other problems.
This even prompted an ad-hoc judgement from my DM to adjust the rules when I tried to hit myself with a crusher effect to free myself from 3 grapples at once, which I honestly took gracefully because that was cheesy.
I doubt the new grappler feat should let you grapple with an attack roll as I was very skeptical of attack roll maneuvers in general. That makes one level dip of monk for martial arts (or no investment at all if unarmed becomes finesse by default) all you need to make STR completely obsolete as athletics only use becomes climbing and swimming and you can get innate speeds for that or just use gear or spells. The attack roll shove on tavern brawler is fine if only because shove 5ft is worth so little in 5e.
If smite has been changed to work with unarmed it's probably a given but I hope to see rage work with unarmed strikes (not like that wasn't an easy thing to convince you DM to allow but anyways).
The unarmed fighting style for a d8 strike (d6 while grappling) and small d4 bonus dmg if you start a turn grappling could have gotten a mention but it's easy to overlook when you have a monk as a base for an unarmed character in mind.
What I like most about all the changes is that basically nothing calls for your bonus action anymore. This really opens up unarmed fighting for being a lower damage but high number of actions per turn play style, which is a godsend for martials that pretty much take the attack action every turn.
As always great video, even tempting me to pick 5e back up lol.
Got to say that I always look forward to see what you have to say.
With regards to using non-speed movement to break grapples, I think that's probably only really common at tables with higher skill levelled players. In my opinion that's not what the game is or should be balanced around. Thunderwave might come up at the average table, but probably only at low levels. Once you have Fireball, I expect most players will forget about or unprepare Thunderwave.
I think that grappling and shoving has deliberately been disassociated from athletics, purely because of Expertise. 5E has a fairly flat curve when it comes to roll scaling, so Expertise was just extremely powerful in the context of grappling and shoving. That leaves attack rolls or saving throws, and saving throws are probably the more thematic one. This does mean however that Athletics absolutely tanks in terms of skill priority. That's something I'm hoping they fix actually, there should be more obvious ways to use different skills. Anyway, back to the point. I don't think that having the Monk dip be good is an issue. Most classes have a good dip, whether that's for Reckless Attack, Find Familiar and Shield, Sorc's CON saves, Cleric's armour, Agonizing Blast, or whatever else. Why should the Monk be any different?
I didn't mention Unarmed Fighting Style, because I don't normally consider 2014 features, unless they are for comparison or there are no ONE D&D alternatives.
Yeah, having the bonus action slot be much more available is wonderful. It gives so much more versatility, and pushes other features up in comparison to the standard old PAM/CBX builds.
@@the_twig131 I'm not against the monk dip being powerful, it's always been a one level easy access to useful features. I just meant that the CO version of maneuvers working with dex attack rolls is just furthering the superiority of dex over strength which is already pretty big. I guess the escape DC is still strength...
The saving throw version makes more sense imo. It's a bit annoying to not get to roll as a player but you could have mechanically the same thing by making athletics a not-skill (like perception in pf2)
You didn't mention the optional fighting style "unarmed fighting" from tasha's
That also just increases the die. It still doesn't stack with anything. It's technically the quickest way to increase your die, but it doesn't really change that much.
As for the grappling stuff, that technically has no impact on Unarmed Strikes in 2014, since grappling is still a special attack. As for why I didn't mention it in the main part of the video, I tend not to talk about things from 2014 5E which do not have a comparable equivalent in ONE D&D, unless they have some fundamentally interesting mechanics, such as with the opportunity attacks.
@@the_twig131 It also does 1d4 bludgeoning damage at the beginning of the grapplers turn without wasting an action or bonus action
bouneary used mega punch, and stand mega lopunny assesinated someone with a high jump kick
*Roundabout starts playing.*
@@the_twig131 and the camera froze 2 frames before contact between standpunny feet and the enemy face
Honestly monk could be renamed to Martial Artist and just Dip into actual forms for features and flavor. The unique Feature could prob be an Active/passive- Pro/Con set of stances.
I really like your videos, they are very well explained and detailed and your voice is just very nice to listen to.
28:10 hello fighter here😢
I'm sorry for your loss.
@@the_twig131 ,🥲 maybe they shouldnt give everyone proficiency in all arms and armor at 1st lvl that might open up some unique ness for the fighter? But let's see how they make every fighter level meaningful similar to casters gaining access to multiple new abilities (spells) every
Heck yeah! I love way too deep analyses
love your videos! thank you
The thing you said about monks needing their special thing is pretty true. In my game, I've gone about trying to make it into a thing, I've done some preliminary homebrewing of all martial classes. I have a very great distaste for the fighter from 2014 in particular. I've made the following changes:
- Fighter - Battle Master is basically part of the core class with some changes. I've removed the extra attacks at level 11 and 20. Basically, the fighter isn't just a windmill, but actually the master of the battlefield, able to control it with maneuvers.
- Barbarian - removed Reckless Attack and added Reckless Rage - doubling rage damage for an AC penalty. The barbarian should be a brute force machine, and reckless attack didn't really fit into that vision that much. Oh, and also reworked Brutal Critical to be actually a useful feature.
- Rogue - removed the "Once per turn" restriction on Sneak Attack, but decreased the scaling on sneak attack. That way, rogues can get cooler subclass features that say, for example, you can forgo sneak attack damage on the attack, but you can do X. (sort of a pathfinder version of sneak attack).
- Monk - monk, I haven't really figured out yet what their "thing" could be. The one thing that always stood out to me was - Why can a fighter with a greatsword make 4 attacks with 1 action, but a monk not only can do only 2, but if they wanna do more, they gotta use a bonus action? A dude with his fists attacks slower than a dude with a giant piece of metal. And it costs him "mystical energy" to do so? I think the "thing" the monk can have is being the only class that can reliably make more attacks per turn. Basically, what the fighter was, but now actually making sense. And, not costing extra Ki of course.
I actually quite like all of those changes. Fighter just doing more attacks than anyone else doesn't make much sense, but being more of a commander or tactician does.
For Monk's special thing, I find it a bit tricky to think of something, probably because I just don't like the theming of the Monk (hence why I want the brawler class instead). Having lots of attacks is fine, but I still don't think it's great. I have been considering some kind of 'stances'. Maybe two default ones and then an extra one for each subclass. You'd spend a Ki point to enter a stance, and then you just stay in it until you're unconscious.
To be honest, the three features from Ki would make fine stances. Flurry Stance would give you an extra Unarmed Strike, Patient Stance would give you an AC boost and maybe a second reaction (with limitations on what you can use it for), and Wind Stance (Swift Stance?) would boost your jumps and give you Flyby.
@@the_twig131 yeah, I've been wondering how to basically take the PF2e monk and make them into a 5e class, but it's a bit hard. I'm still bonking my head against the wall on that one. they still kind of suffer the theming problem, but it's not that big of an issue there, since it at least supports all sorts of archetypes without being hindered if you don't build basically Dex-based.
I can provide a link to a google drive with my changes if you'd be interested.
Tavern Brawler seems like a Crusher Lite feat, more so than even Telekinesis.
That's probably an even better comparison actually, yeah.
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