This video will be SO relevant to so many. My room is 10x12. This year I replaced 30 year old Systemdek/Audiolab8000a/Epos ES11 with an Avid Sequel SP2(£1200!! on ebay)/Exposure/Dali Menuet SE, to see if my dodgy ears and hifi ignorance could tell the difference in my dodgy room. They can, and had I known that, I might have gone straight to the Sugden and Fynes. There is a lot of food for thought here. Subscribed.
Always enjoy these videos from Stereo Phil - but this one is exceptional; good basic premise and a very well thought out recommendation for the situation. Excellent, well done.
In the interest of FULL transparency.... You do realise that Cheshire Audio is a hifi shop don't you? .... so he's just touting the range he sells by recommending these components. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a not-very-subtle sales pitch at the end of the day.
My experience with a small room (a repurposed home office / study) suggests that the first purchase for an expensive HiFi setup should be acoustic panels. Fix the room acoustics before considering any equipment purchases. It is difficult to places the speakers in a small space as an early reflection point occurs at the side wall boundary. So, you need a level of acoustic absorption to limit this reflected energy. However, do not overcook this as too much absorption can make the room sound very dead. Low frequency resonance will also be a problem. So, use the (on-line) Amroc room mode calculator to determine the problem frequencies. The listening room will be too small to use bass traps. Nevertheless, can avoid the major room mode by selecting a pair of speakers with a -6dB cut-off frequency that is compatible with the room.
Small room big budget should be a more common scenario than it probably is. Many audiophiles have the problem of having to share the living room with the family and thus getting to listen to their nice big system much less frequently than they'd like to. You're much better off having a small room to yourself.
Nice one Phil, great vid. My naim 5si and Proac DT8"s pair up beautifully with the Rega P6. Smaller rooms have less risk of reflections and boom. Carpet and underlay makes a huge difference too as does drawing the curtains..Cheers
Thought I’d contribute to this. My room is 3.8m by 3.6m so quite small but I’ve ended up with a fairly high end system in it that sounds amazing. Big speakers in small rooms can work so well but they need to be well controlled. My speakers are Horns FP15s, which measure 500x770x350 (mm), 96db sensitive and driven by big 833 tubed SETs with massive transformers.
I have a small room andi it's funny you mention 10ft by 12ft, which is pretty well the size I have. I totally agree with you re source. I have a Denafrips Pontus 2, with iris DDC for my digital front end, use Audirvana through a laptop. Analogue is an LP12, with origin live arm to an Exposure phono stage. Pre amp is Exposure classic 23, feeding x2 dual mono exposure classic 28 power amps bi-amped. Which in turn feed, ProAc Response 1SC standmounted on very heavy (40kg) filled Atacama stands. Good video Phil, I'm local yo you, Elworth. Maybe see you at the show next weekend.
Room 9 ft x 12 ft..Rega P6, Rega Jupiter CD, Rega Elex Mark 4 and Dynaudio Evoke 10’s on Dynaudio 10 floor stands. Lovely musical sound at low levels and when needed it can ramp up to some awesome sound levels with great control. 👍
My system is in the office (10x14 ft), similar reasons, similar budget. After a ton of research I went with the Vivid Audio Kaya S12's speakers because they are small'ish and the sound isn't impacted by their distance from the wall. The rest of the system: Pass Labs XA25, PS Audio BHK Preamp w/ NOS GE tubes, Denafrips Venus II 12th, Lumin U2 mini, and Jays Audio CD2 MK3. Sorry dont have enough room for records ;-)
My room is about 10' by 15'. I have Magnepan .7 speakers, Schiit Vidar amp, Freya S preamp, Pioneer PL518 tt, SoundSmith Otello cart, into 3 tube analog preamp, with updraded interconnects and AC cables and Blue Jean speaker cable. I listen every day to records and am very happy with the sound. I have maybe $4,000 into it.
I love these types of fun things. It’s like a rom-com movie for audiophiles. Interesting thoughts about the cartridge and phono pre. I’m in the beginning stages of thinking about a phono front end and this has made me reconsider the amount for the TT vs the other 2 items. I was going to go 1/3 for all 3 but I just might push most of it into the TT. I’ve kind of been back and forth on this… now I’m back to $2200 - 2400 on the TT and $250 -350 on the other 2. All of what you said really makes sense. Thanks
Thank you. That was very interesting. I keep thinking of what you said about giving the bigger part of the budget on the source. I wonder what is your opinion on having a streamer as a source. Are they all sound the same just because it's digital sound?
I find it much easier and cheaper to set up a system in a medium/small room. When I moved into my actual house (the room is now 3 times bigger), it took me years to get near the same level of quality.
Complete opposite to me😂 i moved from a apartment in the City and out to the forest. A to small speaker in a big room is worse then the opposite, you cant add something to the first, but you can adjust the second. It is fun to see were not experience the same, we just dont got the same taste, and thats fine too. World be boring if every one had the same set of things😅
Hi, thanks a lot for a very interesting video. I have used earlier in small room (12x12 feet) also nice system: Rega Planar 25 TT with Benz Micro Glyder SL mc cartridge, Benz Micro Lukaschek phono, Copland vacuum tube class A amp 2x30watt in Triode, Rega Jupiter 2000 CD and french Leedh Flirt column speakers. It was very good system also in small room. BR. Juraj🎉
Room size 14'6" x 8'6" System LP12, Roksan Nima, sh refurbished Lyra Helikon feeding a Whest Pro into a Naim Atom. CDs/downloads all ripped to a Melco N1A EX. Speakers Neat Iotas and a single REL T 7. All sounds rather spiffing to my ears. Took ownership of a Rothwell MC1 SUT last week. Was sceptical, but has made a noticeable difference. Just sounds that much more solid. After 40+ years of bringing boxes in and out, this has signs of being endgame for me.
Speakers are a very personal thing and I agree the suggestion of LS3/5as, particularly if the room is so small that the speakers have to be right up against the wall, such as on a shelf. In those circumstances good sealed box speakers show their strengths.
Yesterday I was again listening to the Fyne F5s at my dealer and they are indeed excellent for the size. I like my Triangle 40th Anniversary Comêtes better, but could live with the Fynes. IMO a sub would be a good addition. For a valve amp I think a Lab12 integrated would be marvelous. I’ve not heard their integrateds, but I have the Lab12 Pre 1 and it is unbelievably good for the money. Reviews of their amps consistently high praise.
I have a small cinema room and it’s surprising how much you can get into a limited space, I started with a Denon AVR 3300h and curved LG OLED, in 2020 I had some money come my way and I decided to upgrade I had 7.1 up to then with klipsch speakers but not Atmos and that was my aspiration to get immersive audio for surround music, i got a Marantz SR7015 much warmer tonally for music especially, and four SVS height speakers that took me to 7.1.4. About a year later I decided that to get more presence in the sound I got A emotiva basx a5 separate amp I linked all the speakers except the heights to this and honestly it was night and day, the music now has so much more presence powering the sound with separate amps, listening to SACd and Bluray audio is a delight now.
I am with You. Audio world forgets that typical audio stereo system is build with three enclousers. - two are spaker acoustic enclousers and third is room in which those two are performing. Third one is of course much bigger and it is it's fantastic advantage - it's has fairy low resonance has very little upper resonances (just it's "acoustic") ( which in all speaker boxes are so hurting). This resonance is very positive aspect for Fletcher musnson characteristic - we need that resonance in reproduction on condition that for our typical listening loudness about 70 dB. it is in just right range 40-50 Hz. It alows linear gain in low range I also have the same conclusion about size - by practice 12x10 feets has longest wave about 8 meters and it means about 40 Hz which is just excellent.- In bigger room with say 17x17 feets (5x5m) it equals Lwave =rougly 10 meters it would be 30 Hz and it already makes problems. One (me) can enjoy 30 Hz ( rare in music) but 40 Hz is not enough Fortunately I adopted wideranges without "x bass system" to fill it up . . . I have combination of rooms which alows me to use longest dimension about 15 meters - I can hear even 20 Hz but not the usefull low range When I close doors it improves but still too much - Lwave = 12 meters - still too much to get emphesize 40 Hz. which is needed. . I think we can define this way best room for audio as abot 14 meters sq and it suppose to be shaped just al iittle "longer by shoter" . I had in past, when I was young, such listening room and it was marvelous listening hard to tell. Now smaller my room is too small - anout 10 sqm but it is 17x 6feets - Lwave is about only 6 meters - 50 Hz. Too high to listen to very low range but imopression is better than in dedicated one .
I have rega Saturn r > rega aethos > splendor A6. Room is 6x4m but has door sized arch through to a 4x4m room and 7x3m room. So my "room" is small but is part of a much larger one.
I like this approach, particularly the more fundamentals of what is and is not important in a given room. Class A amp completely agree (Pass XA25 in my case). Spending money on sources also co-signed, although the foam in Rega is a no-go for me. Short or long, it WILL degrade. As a museum curator, I have seen all foams turning all sorts nasty over time (crumbly, sticky, slimy, you name it). Phonostages are vitally important, and I would possibly spend more (say 50% of TT/cart) on it. I tried a bunch of cables, never heard an iota of difference (speaker, interconnects, power). There I am with Amir: if you can show with double blind test significant difference, that's when I may get interested again. I would like to see sticker prices on those pieces, and also a few more alternatives. That would make your video a bit more valuable. Looking forward to a mid-size big budget video. Please define what you mean by "small" "mid-size" and "big" rooms. I found the small buried in the video (10x12') but may be good to spell that out at the very beginning.
As it happens.... Just moved youngest daughter into vacated elder daughter's bedroom. I have a semi vintage set up. AR18S > A&R Cambridge A60.. the later version adjusted for new fangled CD players fed by a Chord Mojo fed with Hi-RES music files via Apple music or Tidal or off an SD card. I may well try to fit a turntable in... thinking my early Rega 2 with Ortofon 520 mk2. The room is tiny, 6ft x 7ft..... now, the sofa is really close.... about as close as that fella sat in his mixing room, you know, the one who mixed Mr Gabriel and The Police's albums on the very same AR18S's :) Mates who've called over have loved it! ... and we don't interrupt madame's soaps! ... and it was cheap!
My A60 not for sale still a great amp today and had AR18’s before they were all stolen replaced A60 and it’s currently packed away one day it will be centre of a second system
@@robertsills2506 What shocked me is that it delivered a more pleasurable stage than my later Arcam Delta 290! I don't know why, the Delta 290 would kill it dead with good floorstanders in a proper sized room. A60 + AR18S shockingly good close up.
I have a Rega Elicit Mk5 paired with ATC SCM7 speakers in an 9' x 11' room and it sounds absolutely superb in near field. I wouldn't change my system for anything. The Sugden sounds great but would probably make my room too hot because it has no window. Even the Elicit I sometimes find runs a little hot.
100% agreed. Spending the most on the source was defined wisdom back in the day. A lot of younger folks seem to be very speaker focused. Do you think this is because of influence from the USA where their rooms are considerably larger than the average UK room?
While I can't afford the gear I'd like now, I did collect some very nice vintage gear for a small room. The weirdest thing is both the very powerful amps plus very large aDs 910s on their stands and a 12" sub, though I have done a lot of listening without the sub, since the 910s go down to 25htz in-room. NAD 208 thx is presently the power amp in use, though I also have a Carver m-500 amp and two Adcom 555 amps. All of these are 200+wpc. The Adcoms are really the best with these speakers, taking control of the dual 10.5" bass drivers. It's the best system I've ever had.
Can it be that in smaller rooms you also on avrage are sitting closer to the speaker. That means more of the sound you hear is direct sound. And less of all of the reflected sound. So in a large room try out to sit closer to your speakers to indirect remove some of the indirect sond!
This is a really interesting video. Can we do large room, under £10K with an Audiolab CDT9000 source? Assuming source has been purchased so 10K for amp and speakers :-)
Wow. That’s a luxury system. The stuff of dreams but fascinating nonetheless. I use a Rega Brio with some Dali Spektor 2s and a Mojo 2 DAC plugged into my MacBook (sorry!) but the sound is impressive too. Sadly no space for CD player or turntable.
I prefer music streamer to vinyl. Cambridge Audio MXN10 Music Streamer, paired with Arcam SA20 Stereo Amp, speakers Monitor Audio Silver 100 7g, great sounding system.
This video is a nice idea in practise, but a little pointless. For £20,000 the range of components is quite extreme. Obviously, the items mentioned will be what Phil sells and knows about. A figure of £5,000 or less would have been more realistic as a lot of people don't have money over that figure.
I have one of your recommended components (Sugden) being fed to via a Project 2 Xperience (Ortofon 2M Bronze) - phono stage - Moon LP110 speakers - ProAc Tablette 10 Signature Currently looking for an upgrade on the TT as I feel like something is lacking and have been looking at the likes of a Clearaudio Concept MC / Performance DC Michel Gyro SE (cuz who doesn’t) Rega Planar 8 Room is appx 12 x 10ft
Small room - obvious answer is ls3/5a, as that’s what they were designed for, preferably Stirling Broadcast V3 LS3/5as. And I still struggle to understand why anyone in this day and age spends loads of money on the massively flawed playback system called a turntable? Especially as lps are so expensive yet also a flawed medium. Surely the only point of a turntable is to play vinyl that you already have and can’t find the recording on digital.
Anybody thought about second hand? I invested 10.000 euro in my 300x450cm room. l.s. Magnepan 1.6 / pre amp Spectral / power amp Ayre / dac Weiss / t.t. Kuzma / cartridge Frog / Phono amp Spinx. You want better or new? Invest a few times 10.000 euro.
Thats interesting because I found the sytem the Naia was fronting sterile and boring to listen to. Perhaps with better speakers and not Regas own it might of been better balanced.
I would simply not recommend - for big room one need system with internal deep loudness compensation ( about 20 dB ) and only this alone sets requirements for significant power in amplifier and low range capable speakers which is contrary to small budget. But even paying this will not be as good as good set in good room because of worse speaker performance .and ubeatable long reverberation
I might have 50K in my 10X12 room. Treated walls (GIK acoustics) , 2 Rythmik subs, McIntosh monoblock tubes driving the tweeters, powerful Audiophonics Class D amp for the mids, lows. Marchand crossover, C2500 McIntosh preamp, Denafrips Venus II-!2th ed for DAC, Eat C Sharp for turntable, Ortofon Cadenza blue for cart, Pass Labs for phono pre, a Otari semi pro reel to reel, Yamaha multi format player, a Pioneer vintage cassette deck, Sonore/small green machine streamer.roon core, sonus faber Olympica 1s. Other various items I am forgetting. So small room, but everything fits neatly and sounds great. Biamping is the best thing I've done to get great dynamics and clarity.
If it was a dedicated listening room and the significant other half didn't meddle in your set up room / HiFi spend etc. Small rooms are quite problematic acoustically to set up and get a good balanced response. If I had £20,000 to spend on HiFi, I'll spend £10,000 on room treatment as roughly 70% of sound coming from your speakers is your room. 30% of £10,000 I'll spend on speakers and 20% on the electronics.
twenty thousand quid...?! i wouldnt spend that on a car never mind a hifi system, i think maybe with some quality used hifi components one coukd do it for two or three thousand, i did but that was 20 years of upgrades (-; with new components today yes i dont think youd have much change from £20,000.
Friendly (!) advice: your video needs total rework. Your cup steals my attention, and the production is poor. You talk too fast. Up your game if you have any ambitious of becoming an important channel.
Ivor was right...start at the beginning. Get the best source you can afford, and while you're saving up to get better downstream components you have a reasonable expectation that your pre amp, amp and speakers are sounding nearly as good as they possibly can. The only beef I have w/ this is that, (even in a small room) I want strong articulate low frequencies that most small monitors can't give you.
This video will be SO relevant to so many. My room is 10x12. This year I replaced 30 year old Systemdek/Audiolab8000a/Epos ES11 with an Avid Sequel SP2(£1200!! on ebay)/Exposure/Dali Menuet SE, to see if my dodgy ears and hifi ignorance could tell the difference in my dodgy room. They can, and had I known that, I might have gone straight to the Sugden and Fynes. There is a lot of food for thought here. Subscribed.
Always enjoy these videos from Stereo Phil - but this one is exceptional; good basic premise and a very well thought out recommendation for the situation.
Excellent, well done.
Great to see Sugden get a mention
Perfect! Just need to find a dealer who stocks Rega, Nordost, Sugden, Hana and Fyne Audio now.
You might have just delivered the best and most useful video for all audiophiles. Subscribed! ❤
In the interest of FULL transparency.... You do realise that Cheshire Audio is a hifi shop don't you? .... so he's just touting the range he sells by recommending these components. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a not-very-subtle sales pitch at the end of the day.
@@dirtharris I do realize, I refer to the logic and reflection. Not the products. Thanks for that, its important to have clarified that I think.
@@dirtharris He is not going to talk about components he doesn't know about.
My experience with a small room (a repurposed home office / study) suggests that the first purchase for an expensive HiFi setup should be acoustic panels. Fix the room acoustics before considering any equipment purchases. It is difficult to places the speakers in a small space as an early reflection point occurs at the side wall boundary. So, you need a level of acoustic absorption to limit this reflected energy. However, do not overcook this as too much absorption can make the room sound very dead. Low frequency resonance will also be a problem. So, use the (on-line) Amroc room mode calculator to determine the problem frequencies. The listening room will be too small to use bass traps. Nevertheless, can avoid the major room mode by selecting a pair of speakers with a -6dB cut-off frequency that is compatible with the room.
I agree, than choose the speakers and couple an amplifier that fits the speakers requests. naturally a good source is important as the rest.
Excellent video and it’s given me a lot to consider 👍🏻
Small room big budget should be a more common scenario than it probably is. Many audiophiles have the problem of having to share the living room with the family and thus getting to listen to their nice big system much less frequently than they'd like to. You're much better off having a small room to yourself.
Nice one Phil, great vid. My naim 5si and Proac DT8"s pair up beautifully with the Rega P6. Smaller rooms have less risk of reflections and boom. Carpet and underlay makes a huge difference too as does drawing the curtains..Cheers
Thought I’d contribute to this. My room is 3.8m by 3.6m so quite small but I’ve ended up with a fairly high end system in it that sounds amazing. Big speakers in small rooms can work so well but they need to be well controlled. My speakers are Horns FP15s, which measure 500x770x350 (mm), 96db sensitive and driven by big 833 tubed SETs with massive transformers.
I have a small room andi it's funny you mention 10ft by 12ft, which is pretty well the size I have. I totally agree with you re source. I have a Denafrips Pontus 2, with iris DDC for my digital front end, use Audirvana through a laptop. Analogue is an LP12, with origin live arm to an Exposure phono stage. Pre amp is Exposure classic 23, feeding x2 dual mono exposure classic 28 power amps bi-amped. Which in turn feed, ProAc Response 1SC standmounted on very heavy (40kg) filled Atacama stands. Good video Phil, I'm local yo you, Elworth. Maybe see you at the show next weekend.
Great video. Thank you. I REALLY like “system “ videos.
Room 9 ft x 12 ft..Rega P6, Rega Jupiter CD, Rega Elex Mark 4 and Dynaudio Evoke 10’s on Dynaudio 10 floor stands. Lovely musical sound at low levels and when needed it can ramp up to some awesome sound levels with great control. 👍
I love this video,this guy actually knows what he's talking about.
Thank you so much for the video. I really enjoy all of your videos, but this one in particular was so entertaining!
My system is in the office (10x14 ft), similar reasons, similar budget. After a ton of research I went with the Vivid Audio Kaya S12's speakers because they are small'ish and the sound isn't impacted by their distance from the wall. The rest of the system: Pass Labs XA25, PS Audio BHK Preamp w/ NOS GE tubes, Denafrips Venus II 12th, Lumin U2 mini, and Jays Audio CD2 MK3. Sorry dont have enough room for records ;-)
My room is about 10' by 15'. I have Magnepan .7 speakers, Schiit Vidar amp, Freya S preamp, Pioneer PL518 tt, SoundSmith Otello cart, into 3 tube analog preamp, with updraded interconnects and AC cables and Blue Jean speaker cable. I listen every day to records and am very happy with the sound. I have maybe $4,000 into it.
I love these types of fun things. It’s like a rom-com movie for audiophiles. Interesting thoughts about the cartridge and phono pre. I’m in the beginning stages of thinking about a phono front end and this has made me reconsider the amount for the TT vs the other 2 items. I was going to go 1/3 for all 3 but I just might push most of it into the TT. I’ve kind of been back and forth on this… now I’m back to $2200 - 2400 on the TT and $250 -350 on the other 2. All of what you said really makes sense. Thanks
Thank you. That was very interesting. I keep thinking of what you said about giving the bigger part of the budget on the source. I wonder what is your opinion on having a streamer as a source. Are they all sound the same just because it's digital sound?
I find it much easier and cheaper to set up a system in a medium/small room. When I moved into my actual house (the room is now 3 times bigger), it took me years to get near the same level of quality.
Complete opposite to me😂 i moved from a apartment in the City and out to the forest. A to small speaker in a big room is worse then the opposite, you cant add something to the first, but you can adjust the second. It is fun to see were not experience the same, we just dont got the same taste, and thats fine too. World be boring if every one had the same set of things😅
Hi, thanks a lot for a very interesting video. I have used earlier in small room (12x12 feet) also nice system: Rega Planar 25 TT with Benz Micro Glyder SL mc cartridge, Benz Micro Lukaschek phono, Copland vacuum tube class A amp 2x30watt in Triode, Rega Jupiter 2000 CD and french Leedh Flirt column speakers. It was very good system also in small room. BR. Juraj🎉
Room size 14'6" x 8'6"
System LP12, Roksan Nima, sh refurbished Lyra Helikon feeding a Whest Pro into a Naim Atom. CDs/downloads all ripped to a Melco N1A EX.
Speakers Neat Iotas and a single REL T 7.
All sounds rather spiffing to my ears.
Took ownership of a Rothwell MC1 SUT last week. Was sceptical, but has made a noticeable difference. Just sounds that much more solid.
After 40+ years of bringing boxes in and out, this has signs of being endgame for me.
Speakers are a very personal thing and I agree the suggestion of LS3/5as, particularly if the room is so small that the speakers have to be right up against the wall, such as on a shelf. In those circumstances good sealed box speakers show their strengths.
Yesterday I was again listening to the Fyne F5s at my dealer and they are indeed excellent for the size. I like my Triangle 40th Anniversary Comêtes better, but could live with the Fynes. IMO a sub would be a good addition. For a valve amp I think a Lab12 integrated would be marvelous. I’ve not heard their integrateds, but I have the Lab12 Pre 1 and it is unbelievably good for the money. Reviews of their amps consistently high praise.
I'd have a Yamaha Gt5000 turntable, As3200 and the speakers I built. Good episode Phil.
Nice👍
I have a small cinema room and it’s surprising how much you can get into a limited space, I started with a Denon AVR 3300h and curved LG OLED, in 2020 I had some money come my way and I decided to upgrade I had 7.1 up to then with klipsch speakers but not Atmos and that was my aspiration to get immersive audio for surround music, i got a Marantz SR7015 much warmer tonally for music especially, and four SVS height speakers that took me to 7.1.4. About a year later I decided that to get more presence in the sound I got A emotiva basx a5 separate amp I linked all the speakers except the heights to this and honestly it was night and day, the music now has so much more presence powering the sound with separate amps, listening to SACd and Bluray audio is a delight now.
I have a question if I may.. when pressing the pure direct stereo option, do you notice any difference?
I am with You.
Audio world forgets that typical audio stereo system is build with three enclousers. - two are spaker acoustic enclousers and third is room in which those two are performing. Third one is of course much bigger and it is it's fantastic advantage - it's has fairy low resonance has very little upper resonances (just it's "acoustic") ( which in all speaker boxes are so hurting).
This resonance is very positive aspect for Fletcher musnson characteristic - we need that resonance in reproduction on condition that for our typical listening loudness about 70 dB. it is in just right range 40-50 Hz. It alows linear gain in low range
I also have the same conclusion about size - by practice 12x10 feets has longest wave about 8 meters and it means about 40 Hz which is just excellent.- In bigger room with say 17x17 feets (5x5m) it equals Lwave =rougly 10 meters it would be 30 Hz and it already makes problems. One (me) can enjoy 30 Hz ( rare in music) but 40 Hz is not enough Fortunately I adopted wideranges without "x bass system" to fill it up .
. . I have combination of rooms which alows me to use longest dimension about 15 meters - I can hear even 20 Hz but not the usefull low range When I close doors it improves but still too much - Lwave = 12 meters - still too much to get emphesize 40 Hz. which is needed. . I think we can define this way best room for audio as abot 14 meters sq and it suppose to be shaped just al iittle "longer by shoter" . I had in past, when I was young, such listening room and it was marvelous listening hard to tell. Now smaller my room is too small - anout 10 sqm but it is 17x 6feets - Lwave is about only 6 meters - 50 Hz. Too high to listen to very low range but imopression is better than in dedicated one .
I have rega Saturn r > rega aethos > splendor A6. Room is 6x4m but has door sized arch through to a 4x4m room and 7x3m room. So my "room" is small but is part of a much larger one.
Would the Sugden not get very hot in a small room?
Lovely in the winter months 🙌🏻
@@Jaysbee1 😂👍
Sugden amp looks nice
I like this approach, particularly the more fundamentals of what is and is not important in a given room. Class A amp completely agree (Pass XA25 in my case). Spending money on sources also co-signed, although the foam in Rega is a no-go for me. Short or long, it WILL degrade. As a museum curator, I have seen all foams turning all sorts nasty over time (crumbly, sticky, slimy, you name it). Phonostages are vitally important, and I would possibly spend more (say 50% of TT/cart) on it. I tried a bunch of cables, never heard an iota of difference (speaker, interconnects, power). There I am with Amir: if you can show with double blind test significant difference, that's when I may get interested again.
I would like to see sticker prices on those pieces, and also a few more alternatives. That would make your video a bit more valuable. Looking forward to a mid-size big budget video. Please define what you mean by "small" "mid-size" and "big" rooms. I found the small buried in the video (10x12') but may be good to spell that out at the very beginning.
I have a Fyne Audio based AV system. 500 series. Wonderful speakers for surround music and easy placement because bottom ported.
You have to do this again brilliant, you should do a £5000 system
Why would he.. People spend that money already. He wants to get more people to spend ridiculous money :) Nordost.. give me a break!
As it happens.... Just moved youngest daughter into vacated elder daughter's bedroom. I have a semi vintage set up. AR18S > A&R Cambridge A60.. the later version adjusted for new fangled CD players fed by a Chord Mojo fed with Hi-RES music files via Apple music or Tidal or off an SD card. I may well try to fit a turntable in... thinking my early Rega 2 with Ortofon 520 mk2. The room is tiny, 6ft x 7ft..... now, the sofa is really close.... about as close as that fella sat in his mixing room, you know, the one who mixed Mr Gabriel and The Police's albums on the very same AR18S's :) Mates who've called over have loved it! ... and we don't interrupt madame's soaps! ... and it was cheap!
My A60 not for sale still a great amp today and had AR18’s before they were all stolen replaced A60 and it’s currently packed away one day it will be centre of a second system
@@robertsills2506 What shocked me is that it delivered a more pleasurable stage than my later Arcam Delta 290! I don't know why, the Delta 290 would kill it dead with good floorstanders in a proper sized room. A60 + AR18S shockingly good close up.
Intersting! Here is my recommended small room system... CD player - Teac VRDS-701, amp - Rotel 1572 MkII, loudspeakers - Dynaudio Evoke 10, subwoofer - Dynaudio 9S, power conditioner - Puritan Audio PSM156, Master clock - LHY OCK-2
Easy.
A Lyngdorf amp with room perfect (critical for a small room) twin subs, plus a good set of stand mounts like KEF LS50 metas.
Source to suit.
I have a Rega Elicit Mk5 paired with ATC SCM7 speakers in an 9' x 11' room and it sounds absolutely superb in near field. I wouldn't change my system for anything. The Sugden sounds great but would probably make my room too hot because it has no window. Even the Elicit I sometimes find runs a little hot.
So what size in feet or meters is considered small, medium & large?
It would help me to understand the specifics of this video
100% agreed. Spending the most on the source was defined wisdom back in the day. A lot of younger folks seem to be very speaker focused. Do you think this is because of influence from the USA where their rooms are considerably larger than the average UK room?
9 x 11 room sources - Michell Gyro SE/Origin Live Silver Mk4/Hana SL and Trichord Dino phono amp
- Chord Qutest DAC (for streaming from PC)
Amplifier - Rega Elicit MK5
Speakers - ATC SCM11 + Rel TZero
Sounds amazing, cant imagine needing to change any of it to be honest
While I can't afford the gear I'd like now, I did collect some very nice vintage gear for a small room. The weirdest thing is both the very powerful amps plus very large aDs 910s on their stands and a 12" sub, though I have done a lot of listening without the sub, since the 910s go down to 25htz in-room. NAD 208 thx is presently the power amp in use, though I also have a Carver m-500 amp and two Adcom 555 amps. All of these are 200+wpc. The Adcoms are really the best with these speakers, taking control of the dual 10.5" bass drivers. It's the best system I've ever had.
You can't beat a Suggie!
Can it be that in smaller rooms you also on avrage are sitting closer to the speaker.
That means more of the sound you hear is direct sound. And less of all of the reflected sound.
So in a large room try out to sit closer to your speakers to indirect remove some of the indirect sond!
This is a really interesting video. Can we do large room, under £10K with an Audiolab CDT9000 source? Assuming source has been purchased so 10K for amp and speakers :-)
Wow. That’s a luxury system. The stuff of dreams but fascinating nonetheless. I use a Rega Brio with some Dali Spektor 2s and a Mojo 2 DAC plugged into my MacBook (sorry!) but the sound is impressive too. Sadly no space for CD player or turntable.
"Like a wardrobe with a driver in it" 😂 Yes I recall seeing them at the Bristol Hi Fi show last year. Huge speakers 🔊
Few could accommodate them.
Did you mean the Cranage show on the 22nd June not this weekend. You had me thinking.
I have a Rega P6, Brio, RS3s & and Apollo in a 10 get by 9.5 ft room. It’s not to bad.😊
Small room = near field listening = listening to speakers not room. Also, nearer field listening = lower power requirements from amp.
Would you changer the formula at all with a 12 x 16 room and a chap that has no vinyl?
I prefer music streamer to vinyl.
Cambridge Audio MXN10 Music Streamer, paired with Arcam SA20 Stereo Amp, speakers Monitor Audio Silver 100 7g, great sounding system.
Oh, and the North West Audio Show at Cranage, Cheshire is free, but you do need to get tickets for it online.
Probably should have chosen 5K budget which is far more realistic and achievable for most
It would be great if you could make a recommendation for a very good complete system in the $2K to $3K... $4Krange
That hifi show is the weekend after this one on the 22nd to 23rd June. See you there.
Also the type of music you listen to Detailed,sparse or full on rock, electro Jazz ? 🎶
Best sound in a small room = good tube amp + BBC LS3/5. That's it! 👍
Cranage show is 22nd/ 23rd June.
This video is a nice idea in practise, but a little pointless. For £20,000 the range of components is quite extreme. Obviously, the items mentioned will be what Phil sells and knows about. A figure of £5,000 or less would have been more realistic as a lot of people don't have money over that figure.
Well said
@@johnnystrachan9454 Thank you.
Sugden amps nice compact size 🎶
Cranage is 22-23rd. Weekend after next
I have one of your recommended components (Sugden) being fed to via a
Project 2 Xperience (Ortofon 2M Bronze) - phono stage - Moon LP110
speakers - ProAc Tablette 10 Signature
Currently looking for an upgrade on the TT as I feel like something is lacking and have been looking at the likes of a Clearaudio Concept MC / Performance DC
Michel Gyro SE (cuz who doesn’t)
Rega Planar 8
Room is appx 12 x 10ft
I’d pick second hand stuff LP12,luxman 509x , and B&W 800 series £10,000
Small room - obvious answer is ls3/5a, as that’s what they were designed for, preferably Stirling Broadcast V3 LS3/5as. And I still struggle to understand why anyone in this day and age spends loads of money on the massively flawed playback system called a turntable? Especially as lps are so expensive yet also a flawed medium. Surely the only point of a turntable is to play vinyl that you already have and can’t find the recording on digital.
Why don't you flag up the Audio Technica 540 rigby.?
Because he doesn't sell them
@@dirtharrisAnd it isn’t appropriate in that system..
Your right
I would be concerned with a class A amp warming up the room too much but I've never used a Sugden A21
LS 3/5a
Anybody thought about second hand? I invested 10.000 euro in my 300x450cm room.
l.s. Magnepan 1.6 / pre amp Spectral / power amp Ayre / dac Weiss / t.t. Kuzma / cartridge Frog / Phono amp Spinx. You want better or new? Invest a few times 10.000 euro.
Thats interesting because I found the sytem the Naia was fronting sterile and boring to listen to. Perhaps with better speakers and not Regas own it might of been better balanced.
Sorry and nagaoka mp500 and chord epic cable
£20,000!!!
How bout small budget, big room?
Smaller listening area, bigger speakers
I would simply not recommend - for big room one need system with internal deep loudness compensation ( about 20 dB ) and only this alone sets requirements for significant power in amplifier and low range capable speakers which is contrary to small budget. But even paying this will not be as good as good set in good room because of worse speaker performance .and ubeatable long reverberation
The speakers look like bird boxes
That's because they come with a really good tweeter 😀.
£10'000 please.
That's more like it.
I might have 50K in my 10X12 room. Treated walls (GIK acoustics) , 2 Rythmik subs, McIntosh monoblock tubes driving the tweeters, powerful Audiophonics Class D amp for the mids, lows. Marchand crossover, C2500 McIntosh preamp, Denafrips Venus II-!2th ed for DAC, Eat C Sharp for turntable, Ortofon Cadenza blue for cart, Pass Labs for phono pre, a Otari semi pro reel to reel, Yamaha multi format player, a Pioneer vintage cassette deck, Sonore/small green machine streamer.roon core, sonus faber Olympica 1s. Other various items I am forgetting. So small room, but everything fits neatly and sounds great. Biamping is the best thing I've done to get great dynamics and clarity.
If it was a dedicated listening room and the significant other half didn't meddle in your set up room / HiFi spend etc.
Small rooms are quite problematic acoustically to set up and get a good balanced response.
If I had £20,000 to spend on HiFi, I'll spend £10,000 on room treatment as roughly 70% of sound coming from your speakers is your room. 30% of £10,000 I'll spend on speakers and 20% on the electronics.
Can't make up my mind whether those speakers belong in a Sci-Fi or Bollywood film. 😊
harder to put small to medium budget in a bigger room.........next......
So evil to recommend a turntable to someone looking for a budget system!
Where the hell is cranage
It’s in Cheshire, not far from Crewe. Dead easy off the M6
Would never build a system around a turntable. For some reason they’re charging 50 bucks and up for records. No thanks.😊
twenty thousand quid...?! i wouldnt spend that on a car never mind a hifi system, i think maybe with some quality used hifi components one coukd do it for two or three thousand, i did but that was 20 years of upgrades (-; with new components today yes i dont think youd have much change from £20,000.
rofl. small room so big bulky record and record players.
Friendly (!) advice: your video needs total rework. Your cup steals my attention, and the production is poor. You talk too fast. Up your game if you have any ambitious of becoming an important channel.
Ivor was right...start at the beginning. Get the best source you can afford, and while you're saving up to get better downstream components you have a reasonable expectation that your pre amp, amp and speakers are sounding nearly as good as they possibly can. The only beef I have w/ this is that, (even in a small room) I want strong articulate low frequencies that most small monitors can't give you.