*Endure. In enduring, grow strong.* This line has gotten me through PTSD, agoraphobia, surgery, and other kinds of "torment" throughout my life. Every few days, despite it being many years since finishing it, I think of something from this game. It's one of a kind.
The game has also had a strong impact on me when I grew up and I know a close friend of mine who also had the same experience. I can't imagine we're the only ones.
dude, same thing happened to me for a while. The fact that a videogame character can actually affect the way you feel about struggle speaks volumes of the quality and heart felt passion the devs had while making planescape.
For me it was RDR1. Man John in that game would plot, would not cheat and seemed like a solid dude. Then when RDR2 was out, seeing John as a guy who made spur of the moment decisions, had to deal with the consequences of being rash. Well it was a moment of, "yep, I remember being that guy". There is even a cringe vid of 19y.o. me on YT, its a uh hangover/substance fueled outburst to a journey that went wrong back in the day. We look back and laugh now, but I always walk away far enough to not hear it.
I'm 38 and I've never commented on a RUclips video but I needed you to know how happy I was when I saw a new 2 hour+ Grimbeard video in my subscriptions. Your work is really appreciated. Thank you for doing this.
One fun fact I love about the Nameless One's growth is that, while he can be a fighter, wizard, or thief, he can't be a cleric. Whatever the Good Incarnation did, no god, *not even the most evil of evil gods*, wants to grant him divine power.
Huh. I had thought it was multiple different incarnations(said something to that effect in the game manual?)that served all the different Gods and by the time we get to our incarnation TNO has served all of them at one point or another and because of reasons none of them will grant him power ever again.
Sus amugus had me dying, as did the trans rage part... "Ok bye, and they immediately evacuate their bladder" with a pissing sound in the background... Comedic genius
The video was doing so good until that part, RUclips needs a middle option as I couldn't give a thumbs up anymore but the rest was too good for a thumbs down. This won't age well as more and more butchered children come forward about how the movement ruined their lives.
@@tendiesoffmyplate9085 It's funny to me that you think that's the problem. Like it's The Lion King and as soon as "the right person" isn't in power, everything instantly falls to shit. As if these aren't the ramifications of global politics that have been building up since the last big economic crisis no matter who's in power because the system is designed to boom and bust like this. Keep being dumb I guess.
On the subject of this reveiw that says "there is no incentive to play beyond the first area", I just wanna retell my personnal experience. The first thing you can see when you're out of the Mortuary are a pillar and walls where the names of everey person who died is carved. But there are so many dead that some of those names are just scribled and almost unreadable, so there is this ONE DUDE who just tries to remember all the names he ever read so that thoes guys would not be forgotten. THIS is Planescape, it's just, imo, brilliantly strange and a little sad. I dig it ;)
dakkon is the only npc in my 30 years of gaming, who made my jaw drop, with the level of his writing and his principles. to this day The Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon continues to baffle me with its sheer wisdom.
@@-Zakhiel- His teachings are wise tho, and they grant magical powers. The "Why" it was created matters, but it does not negate the power the teachings have.
It's kinda late, but I can stay up for another hour and watch Grim Beard talk about my favorite game. I still think "Planescape: Torment" is one of the best storytelling experiences I've ever had playing a game.
I don’t know how I missed this. I played a tonne of these games. Baldurs Gate 1&2, ice wind dale, stonekeep just loads of them and somehow I missed this. Well, got some classic gaming to catch up on…
I particularly like the version of the ending where falls-From-Grace delibrately takes just a little bit of your soul in a kiss...so she will be able to FIND you in the blood war. She is, after all, an immortal demon living in a planar nexus. One can imagine the follow-up quest.
...i don't remember that. Not sure if it's because it didn't happen to me, or because there was just so many powerful things that this one got lost amongst them... Either way, it's sad that I don't remember it, because that's... amazing. Also, for a time, I was actually trying to write and make P:T2 - The Blood War, so... yeah, one can definitely imagine the follow-up quest =D (I was 13years old, so whatever I wrote and made (in RPG Maker) was utter crap, but... I was certainly feeling inspired =D)
@@MidnightSt oh i know it. It counts as a bad end becuase you're stuck in a freaking chair for the rest of eternity. You can also piss off the Lady of Pain or that necrormancer that kidnaps Morte and meet a final end as well.
This doesnt happen in every ending- I've seen two. She did mention in one ending of searching for you but it would be difficult because the planes are infinite. I always thought this was them setting up for a sequel that...alas...never happened :/
Interesting tidbit I can't help but mention everywhere: The game actually contains a script which, when Nameless One dies, picks a random unimportant NPC in the area you died in, and kills them. When there's no unimportant NPCs left, you actually get an actual game over screen. (Not sure if the enhanced edition does it too, but the original one did. You can test it out, just keep dying in lower sigil, and watch as/if it gradually depopulates =D)
Never noticed, though my Nameless didn't die that often tbh, and as far as I remember it was most often in areas where there wouldn't be a whole lot of neutral NPCs in the vicinity so I wonder how those were handled.
@@childesinthev.761 i don't remember it exactly, so i'm not sure, but I think "random unimportant npc" also includes enemies. however what I DO remember exactly is actually reading that script when i was rummaging around in the game's files with the mod tools, as well as I remember what i said - i kept dying in lower sigil, noticed it depopulating, kept dying, and then got a game over screen, a special one for that case (but i don't remember what it said, i just remember it was unlike any other of the game over screens you can get)
@@MidnightSt Perhaps you don't remember because each time you die, you lose a piece of yourself. While the body can heal, it is your mind that pays the price...
Early on if you run afoul of the Dustmen, there are situations where you'll just be talking with a random NPC in the street and they'll say something to the extent of "hey wait a minute, aren't you that Wanted guy?" and your immediate dialogue options include just snapping their neck and murdering them to keep them from calling the guards and starting a combat encounter... and there are essentially no negative consequences for doing this. There's no BS alignment system that game-ifies your decision. You don't get any naughty-points. Your party members don't turn against you. You successfully avoid combat. You're the only person who knows what you did. The first time I killed someone in this way, I expected to be tut-tuted by the game, and the fact that the universe didn't seem to care that I'd just murdered someone in cold blood ate away at me. I've literally felt guilty about it for over 20 years, and it's a perfect summation of what makes Planescape so great.
@@supertaoman12 it’s not visible to the player though - it only operates behind the scenes so the game doesn’t tell you anything has happened. It’s not that there is no alignment at all - just that it isn’t reductive and obvious, hence, no “BS” where the game editorializes loudly on your actions. You need to install a mod just to see how your alignment is affected by various actions.
This is how I felt gunning down civilians in spec ops the line. No warnings about civilians, nothing but your actions and the corpse in front of you. It then overdoes this a bit later but it's fine
i tried it for a few times, got confident then tried it again with the wrong npc, turned out it the guy didn't die and he kicked my ass and made everything hostile in that area. I would have done better trying to reason with him. It does throw a few curve balls at you
Ultima Underworld had the same concept. You could go to towns and pick up quests and do business, or just wipe out the entire city and take everything. None of them ever come back.
You might enjoy Disco Elysium. Not the same vibe fantasy wise but the level of writing, the fact that you read more than play, and even some of the themes are very similar. Worth checking out at least (if you haven't already).
Dak'kon for me always played sort of a "Vergil" role. As you start the game, TNO almost aimlessly wanders this forest of houses, or places, called Sigil, just like Dante wanders the forest, not knowing how or why they got there and the only way forward is well, anywhere. The point is not to just explore Torment's places, but also philosophies. While every npc serves as a moral compass for their alignment. Dak'kon's role is so much more refined and meaningful. Playing the role of an underworld guide, clearly knowing more than he let's on, Dak'kon still never influence's TNO's choices directly, but puts emphasis on term "knowing", subtly making TNO use more of his brain in general, while also putting even greater emphasis on "knowing oneself", which is the main motive of his religion/philosophy and also both, his and TNO's greatest problem. Both Dak'kon and TNO have lost themselves and are trying to find themselves by helping the other one find himself. However, there is also more to just knowing and knowing oneself. Knowing the nature of a man, or nature of sin, as Dante put it, seems to be the key question/philosophy of Planescape and the Divine Comedy, and I find it rather sad when people focus on a question "what can change the nature of a man?" when they should be focusing on "what is the nature of a man?" which might seem silly at first but in actuality is an incredibly complex topic, with no real conclusion. The theme itself reminds me of a tale about a scorpion and a frog, in which a scorpion stings a frog while it's carrying it across the river apologizing for killing them both and saying "It's in my nature." Which is even more fascinating when you look at the older version of the same tale which includes a scorpion and a turtle in which they both survive with turtle having the last say: "Truly have the sages said that to cherish a base character is to give one's honor to the wind, and to involve one's own self in embarrassment." It's truly fascinating to see same conflicting philosophical ideas pop up for hundreds of years, if not longer. The other thing I find fascinating are similarities between Dak'kon and Zerthimon, and, Saint Peter and Jesus in Matthew 14:22-33 (google it and read it, it's very short). Dak'kon, being a devout follower of Zerthimon, loses his faith which causes him to realize he does not "know" himself which causes the ground beneath him to lose way and turn into liquid, and he can only be saved by "knowing oneself" which he confirms by solidifying his faith.
Absolutely love this channel. The vibe, the humor, the editing. It's such a refreshing change from everything else out there. Hope you keep up the good work
"There will be fiendish babes, *human babes,* angelic babes, *asian babes,* and even undead babes." I love the idea of an executive reading this and going, "SOLD! Y'know, when you were just promising _human_ babes, I was iffy on it. But then I kept reading and when I saw you're planning on including those famously nonhuman _Asian babes,_ ya got me onboard!" lmao XD
I know this isn't the focus of this video, but since it went so bizarrely hard on the Beamdog controversy, I feel someone should point out what the video says on the topic is misleading. I doubt anyone cares about all the details, but for the main example, most people who got angry about the trans character weren't upset about a trans character existing in the game (of course, some sucky people were). Most people were upset she was a poorly written, offensive tokenization. Imagine devs noticed their game had no black people so they added one NPC who, as almost his first comment to you says, "Hi I'm black." That'd feel weird. And that's what happened here. The character was written so poorly it stood out like a sore thumb. Them being trans had no relevance to anything said or done, and them telling you they're trans made no sense at all. It was pure tokenization. It was putting a trans character in just so they could say, "We have a trans character!" It's gross. You don't promote inclusivity by having a throwaway NPC awkwardly tell the player they're trans for no reason. That does the opposite. It presents trans individuals as strange, unusual and ultimately unimportant as anything more than a novelty. I'm happy when I see good trans representation in games, but Beamdog's handling of this was so inept it made me nauseous to read.
@@calisto789 I'm not sure what you mean by "the threads" as the issue was discussed in many places across many sites, but I have no doubt for some people in some areas her being trans was enough of an issue for them to be upset. However, the overall discourse was not merely about her being trans. This is evident by the many contemporaneous articles at the time which discussed how the poor writing of the character caused her being trans to be off-putting like I described. This was made worse by Beamdog kneejerk reaction of defending what they did, pretending criticisms were merely from bigots. The actual truth is what Beamdog put in its game was a harmful type of tokenization, which while presumably unintentional, was in fact a form of bigotry.
1:21:35 Anna is a Tifling, a half fiend. Fall-From-Grace embodies everything Anna blames for the misery she's been heaped with because of a legacy she never once asked for. Anna has all the MORE reason to caff against Fall From Grace BECAUSE she's not a stereotypical demon, she CHALLENGES Anna's views, which never makes anymore comfortable.
That is what I was realizing. Both are "decent" people, for the world they inhabit. However, Fall-From-Grace is the complete opposite of what a demoness is "supposed" to be, the very thing that Anna gets lumped in with.
Naaaah putting a gamergate reference in a form of media is always a terrible idea, you immediately date the work. And not in the understandable "Oh yeah it was a different time" kind of way, but in the "oh the writer is fucken lame" kind of way. Like an attack helicopter joke, covfefe joke, lets go brandon joke. Dumbass political slogans are the weakest low hanging fruit.
1:12:01 he didnt try to cheat his way into heaven. He just did something unforgivable that he couldnt never do right in a single lifetime. So his solution was to gain more than one lifetime of time.
>some slang terms that don't have a basis in reality, like "cutter" and "barmy" Wow. Let me tell you about this country called "England" and it's wonderful language...
As someone who's recently started collecting and enjoying crt tvs again, I love the tv segments and the editing, looks awesome and probably a blast to do or total chore to get to look right! b.t.w. I just found a pink disney princess tv/vhs/dvd combo on the side of the road and set it up for my daughter!
This video is longer than the movie Aliens ... and I've re-watched this more. Aliens is one of my favorite movies. Do I have to now include this video in my "favorite movies" list?
This game is defined by only one thing - whether you are involved in the plot and the world or not, whether you want to have answers. If you are - it will be one of the most interesting games ever for you. The plot completely forms the game, to be honest - the second playthrough, even after 9 years, was far from being so interesting. And my first playthrough was messed up in funny way because for roleplaying reasons I decided to leave all my companions before visiting Ravel. Who could've knew that it would be impossible to go back and I would end the game with an insanely powerful wizard who has collected all the experience which was meant for 5 people, with all stats 25 long before the end
Oh, I got involved in the world and the plot, I played this game as an obsession, And when playing the game wasn't enough for me, I ripped all the dialogue and the dev commentary from the game and consumed it all, I had a good two months when I went completely down the rabbit hole on this game. I have never done that with any other game/book/film, it was an obsession, and honestly when I look back upon it now I look back with fondness.
Completely disagree on the whole Beamdog issue. It's one thing to put in dumb non-sense in your new DLC, it's another when said non-sense ignores/shits on the established lore or characters. It's not theirs to change. Simple as that. Something tells me you wouldn't agree with Beamdog when Minsc would quote Ben Shapiro, Alex Jones, or whoever.
Considering Ben and Alex are performance artists who hock and mock those who honestly watch them it wouldn’t be a good fit for Minsc who’s an actual brain-damaged individual.
To whom it concerns, If you too miss the taste of P E P S I B L U E, I have a surprising solution! Take a bottle of sprite and mix in a packet of powdered Propel Berry flavoring. BAM, perfect recreation.
they also removed the name of original creators from the store pages, now most people (who never played original) might think Beamdog are the original creators
Well it sure is a good thing the EE versions of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 aren't bug ridden messes that they still need to patch to this day to even get on par with the stability of the original games on older hardware... oh wait-
As dumb as the negative reviews were they are right about combat. CRPG pause and play combat is just terrible and as someone who's favorite genre is CRPGs I was really hoping the new wave would drop old school pause and play. I think voice vs text is more subjective(although more people clearly want voiced) but I really don't think the combat part is that subjective. There's a reason DoS became the biggest hit out of the modern CRPGs. Not only is it voiced but they picked a more focused combat style. I hope developers start to understand what truly made CRPGs good and stop just copying every part of the older games. They don't need to look, sound and play like the old school games. The just need to focus on story, characters and choice.
Why-where-how? This whole channel is a frigging dragon's hoard worth of treasure and I've been oblivious of it! I vibe 100% with this humor and just everything offered here.
I played Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale first, but Planescape: Torment was always my favourite, due to the sheer choices presented to you, and the way the setting and characters are fleshed out. Not many developers do this with CRPGs, especially nowadays. Disco Elysium was the most recent RPG that I've played that I felt got the exploration/storytelling/pacing correct while having little to no combat
This is quite possibly the best video on RUclips about the best game that ever was. Thanks for that bit about Lustmord being the intended composer for P:T's soundtrack. While I think Mark Morgan has done a fabulous job, creating something as strange and seemingly discordant as Sigil itself, I can't help but imagine how it would have sounded like if Interplay didn't decide to sever ties with L. Shame about that. On an unrelated note, I think combat in P:T can be massively satisfying under some circumstances. While it lacks the strategic depth of, say, Baldur's Gate, where you would have to genuinely think how to best approach every encounter and prepare for most of them with spells and potions, it has something else - if you remember the first time you used Mechanus Cannon on somebody, or ever managed to land a sneak attack on Trias for 150 damage, you will know what I mean. I guess it's more of a power fantasy thing if anything else, but it really nails the feeling of being a few centuries old immortal that could wield fabulous power if only he remembered how to do that! It's such a shame that the new generation of gamers can't find in themselves what it takes to appreciate this absolute diamond of a game. I don't think it's anyone's fault - they are a product of their world as much as we are - but still, it's a fantastic, enthralling and thought-provoking story that does not deserve to be forgotten. Thank you - again - for doing your part in keeping its legacy alive.
After finishing, some tidbits and Devil's Advocacy: - The official novel is awful. Just plain awful. First off, it names The Nameless One. Secondly, that name is Thane. Thirdly, did I mention that they decide that The Nameless One's name is Thane? Fourthly, he uses a sword. - It does, however, expand on Fhjull Forked-Tongue, retroactively making them the most important character. Unfortunately, this includes spelling out why TNO had Ravel take away his mortality. - That "why no 1st person camera?" review is hilarious. The levels are flat images with walkable sections, so that camera wouldn't be terribly useful. A jump button, though... now we're talking. - It's thematically appropriate that so many people stop playing, when they get to Carceri. - I wish that the Steam achievements for P:T that require multiple playthroughs were self-aware. - Two Worlds is a great speedrun game. Kind of weird that they added so much terrible optional content. Beamdog hot-takes: - IMHO, the trans vendor trash merchant's behavior in SoD doesn't make any sense. Hank and Becky would be exotic names that someone would comment on, in the Forgotten Realms, not Mizhena or anything else that you'd get from smashing your face on a keyboard. Besides, Elminster is trans, you can make any of your party members trans within the first 15 minutes of the very first game, and Edwina is very popular. It's like having a dialogue option to ask a Walmart cashier about their vest. - A common interpretation of Safana's character is that she uses her massive Charisma to manipulate people in a very Chaotic Neutral sort of way for fun and profit. Beamdog slut-shaming her and implicating the players was a bit offensive. People generally don't like being told how they feel. It reminded me of EAWare's Dragon Age 2 DLC assuming that the player visited prostitutes on a regular basis (to set up a joke, where your character preferring the trans one is the punchline) with the writers being shocked in interviews that anyone would play a character that would be faithful to their romantic partner, much less not have a romantic partner at all.
Beamdog's writing is bad in general, and instead of trying to get better, they seem to insult their customers for making valid criticisms. Sure, some critics are bigoted nutjobs, but that's always going to be the case. The fact some nutjobs exist doesn't invalidate criticisms of your product general. Quite frankly, when it comes to its writing, Beamdog's output is... not good. And in this case, it was... not good... in ways that were sometimes gross. For instance, tokenization. Having your only trans character be unimportant and irrelevant, with their gender identity only being revealed in a ham-fisted way never relevant to anything ever again is gross as it presents them not as a person but as a weird novelty. Dismissing the character of Safara by slut shaming her to claim she is nothing but a "sex object" is... well, sexist as it pretends femme fatales can't personality and character. Saying Jaheera was nothing but a "nagging wife" is both bizarre and offensive. These were real characters with actual personality. Maybe they could have been written better, but guess what? Dismissing their character/personality with reductivist descriptions like those is actually being sexist. Beamdog were the ones who saw these characters as nothing more than their gender. I get it. Writing is hard. If they sincerely tried their best but just failed to do a good job, people would understand. But they didn't. Their lead writer explicitly said she didn't care if the dialogue she wrote felt "forced" to people, with her and the company dismissing critics as being sexist and transphobic. No. Doing a bad job then dismissing anyone who criticizes you as a bigot is gross.
my grandma bought me Fallout 1(who knows why) and i loved that game, and years later a friend lend me a cd with Planescape Torment, i think it was cracked?? im talking maybe 9 years ago, or maybe even more, and i loved that game so much planescape dudes didnt see a penny of my money, until they released it years later on steam, which i bought right away back on the day it was easier to pirate a game, now it is easier to just buy it and download it
Looks like a pretty good game, chief! Every time that I think your research and ability to repackage all of the information into perfectly sized chunks can't get any better, you get better. You've - no joke - inspired the way that I make videos... that are never finished/uploaded, because I can't physically make myself edit audio of my own voice. (On a sidenote, I love that there are speedruns of P:T, which are basically spoiler-free.)
@@planescaped It's like Skyrim with words. Warlockracy recently did a KOTOR 2 video that made many comparisons to P:T. My pet theory is that - much like how KOTOR 2 lampshades scaling enemies and both games include cheeky in-game lore to explain why CRPGs give you a party of misfit loners that hate each other - P:T is would it would be like for a character whose life is save-scummed to experience all of a game's content.
@@whoknows8264 For SoD, Beamdog writers retconned a lot of characters, and then because they appear in BG2 they get retconned back, like what happened in SoD did not happen. They really wrote themselves into corners multiple times.
Isn't SoD an expansion? That can be completely ignored? Or did they also change BG 1 and 2? Honest question, never played the Enhanced Editions of those games.
Despite all the claims that Torment is "just a book with bad combat attached", the ability to make distinct character choices is really what *makes* this game. I will never ever make an absolutely evil choice, like thrusting Morte into the pillar of skulls. However, having such a wide variety of options available as a player is what elevates Planescape. As for the Beamdog situation, it's astonishing to me that so many people (even in this comment section) can't seem to grasp the concept of thinking something was "meh" or "bad" and then simply moving on, rather than it having it consume their entire online personality.
Planescape Torment is one of the few RPGs which allow you to be evil but I find it so repugnant going all the way down that path I can't do it. There's no joy in it it's the equivalent of feeling like being kicked in the nads over and over making Dak'kon your slave, being cruel to Morte, lying to Annah about liking her etc.
I don't know if I would be so quick to throw Chris Avalon under the bus, unless you know something I don't.. I mean that that kind of thing it's much easier on the corporate end to burn all your Bridges then actually care about anyone and his situation has a lot more of the framing of that.. but you know I think that goes for anybody.
Please play this game. I just got it for the first time early this year and after finishing it, it really is one of the best games ever made (at least in terms of story/writing). It's really that good.
You know people have been trying to sell me on this game for easily 20+ years, and I even tried an abortive attempt at playing it roughly a decade ago and bounced off, but how has no one of them thought to mention this to me that Keith David is in this MF? Is this game really just so overall GOATed that Keith FUCKING David is somehow a footnote? AND Dan Castallenata AND Tony Jay? Holy fucking shit.
Never heard of your channel before today, but I love PS:T so much and you’re not transphobic so you’ve earned a subscriber, cutter. I love your humour and it’s not something often found in videos on Planescape.
I hate so much modern, SF, minimalist UI they put now on every games, even fantasy ones. UI is part of the DA, it should tale a story, contribute to the story. It's even more true when gamedev hide the UI or integrate it in the gameworld (Deadspace).
1:19:33 wait a moment, since when all this sh*t is representative of all the normal peoples who used to play games? wasn't all of that just for investors and media attention?
I can't even begin to imagine the time and effort it took to write and record such a banging script. Thoroughly enjoyed this 2 hour binge, Grim, can't wait to see what you release next! 🙂
The problem with Beamdog is they're infamous for their scummy business practices. Their remasters offered nothing (apparently not even bug fixes) that you couldn't get from the original games for half the price and free fan-made patches, so they removed the originals from the store and packaged them with their remasters, so anyone wanting the orginals would then have to pay twice as much to so-called "developers" who didn't even make the damn game. And then there's Siege of Dragonspear, which was the DLC equivilent of Mass Effect: Andromeda or Cyperpunk 2077; A god-awful dumpster fire featuring a character who existed solely to state her gender identity to the player in a pathetic attempt to distract people from the countless real problems the game had. Calling this character a token minority feels like an insult to token minorities. There's also giving themselves glowing reviews, charging money for a portrait pack featuring only six portraits (at least one of which is just a bad photoshop of a real person's face onto actual artwork), and probably many more things, but these are the two biggest examples.
I’m always pumped when I see a Grim notification but an almost 2 1/2 hour epic on Planescape:Torment? Unreal. Also, Para-Pug is still my favourite, fully-developed bit but the “Roll a D12 to see how successfully you go fuck yourself” was hilarious.
Just to point out you can actually lose the game and die, or get trapped. There are a few ways. but all of them is the result of your choic and kinda alternative ending... very early ending... But that's the thing, Torment is not more a game, that it's a roleplay adventure, and roleplay is about acting, not gaming. So yes, it is more of a interactive story than a game, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
Did Beamdog go back on their word and removed the classic versions? Why yes they did! Did they use common fan patches to “enhance” it? Who knows! Did they bring back Chris Avellone to re-edit the story so they didn’t get another controversy? No one was paying attention! I paid for the GOG classic versions, I’m not buying another copy 😂
Thanks for the amazing content! I got laid off yesterday and really appreciate the distraction! You're probably my favourite video game reviewer on youtube
"read a book instead" meme gotta out of hand. Joking about it, ok, but actually put in a review.. oh man.. there's a big difference between being an active and a passiv part (hehe).. and I could go on and con why that isn't just the same.. but well.. Who's gonna read this comment anyway? Hi future me, who will eventually stumble on its own comment again!
For those who care about the Beamdog controversy but don't want to spend an hour online looking it up: The basic controversy was when in addition to making ports of older titles they decided to throw their hat into the ring of making content for them. Siege of Dragonspear was content made for Baldurs Gate 1 that was supposed to bridge the gap between 1 and 2. It was a nightmare. In extreme basic: It brought modern politics into the mix, bastardized the characterizations of many characters (Including one of the female romance options, the drow, turning her into a 'strong female character' by Beamdog's standards which just translated to irrational hate of the PC.), turned many characters into memes (There's now a voiceline of Minsc's VA saying "Really, it's all about Ethics in Heroic Adventuring." And I hate this.) and so on. And when confronted on this they became oppositional toward their target audience. It's not really a wonder people didn't want to let Beamdog make money off a product they did not think they respected. To sum up, Beamdog did the one thing you should not do in nostalgic media: Fucked with people's childhoods.
Found this after having just finished the game for the first time. I really enjoyed your review and agree with pretty much everything you put forth. One issue I had with the game, however, was that for this game that's been lauded for majority of my life as "best written ever" -- It really suffers by making very important dialog be repeatable and often is necessary for the player to just grind through dialog trees. This is really at it's worst when talking with companions and in the final area... It feels less 'role-playing' and more 'codex mining'. That and it's kind of grating to have every conversation go "Greetings. I have questions". You are right in that this game walked so Disco could run.
Is there really a NPC named Jordan B. Peterson in the Enhanced Edition of the game? I noticed this at time 41:55 and was wondering if this was legitimate or a fake screen? If it is legitimate, where do you find this character in the game?
"yeah, i could rescue your cat" is a great phrase i'm going to steal. i'm a speech teacher, and when i want to talk about how emphasis is often at least as important as word choice, i use the phrase "i never said she took my money." "i never *said* she took my money," "i never said *she* took my money," etc.
I played this game last year, because I remembered people saying it was quite good. It certainly showed its age, but the writing made that laughably irrelevant. What a timeless masterpiece. Excellent video, you have a new subscriber!
god i get so pumped every time you upload. Its like a burning that starts in my taint and rips up my spine until my hair is on fire like one of those 90s kids in the sega ads. And the only thing that will put it out is seeing that banger of an intro
love your content but if 'how could you care about this' applies, why do you care about someone killing an NPC? Seems like a pot-kettle thing. I have no idea what the video is and how toxic it may be but if you are gonna say "why do you care?" I have to ask... "why do YOU care?", about what you described as pixels.
Freedom of expression. Everyone, from the ''I killed trans character' guy, to the guy who posted this video, to you, to me. Regardless of opinion on any issue, we all seem to believe the freedom to express an opinion underpins any issue worth having an opinion on, if you follow. Hypocrisy doesn't apply, even though we often use the term to argue against others. If guy A wants to express his disdain for trans people, he can hardly be outraged when guy B replies with disdain towards him. The only thing that matters is that the environment for disdain to be exchanged between people remains open and unrestricted. As long as this is the case, we'll be fine, you massive prick. (And if you dont insult me in return, then we're all fucked) 😊
To be honest, beside the clusterfuck of the quality of those enhanced version, if the dlc transstuff was not just political, there would have been at least a choice, "I don't care shut up" to this conversation. Or clearly you cannot express you evil or chaotic alignment, that's not role play. And they would not have insisted so much on the marketing side of this release on this subject.
i got a problem to feel that unique vibe and dark spirit of the game at the beggining too. I was expecting, well more generic dungeons and dragons after baldurs gate and other similiar fantasy games. I was hit in the face, and shocked at the start, left with "what the hell is going on" in my mind. But I returned (twice tbh), and made past the first area. Now its the best rpg I ever played
This is a great video, you did really good. That said I am so tired of RUclips being packed to the brim with essays about niche things about old video games. This is one of the few that is not lazy and has actual thought put into it. And you conveyed how great and chaotic this game from 20 years ago is. But all of my reccomendeds is just fucking people talking for hours about topics that literally matter to nobody just so they can plug a 15 second curiosity stream, square space, raid shadow legends annoying ass ad in my face for the millionth time. I hate RUclips so much... But thankyou for making a good video.
First time seeing your channel Grimbeard, amazing content and I'm so happy there's more recognition of this cRPG masterpiece. Only 1hour into this video essay, but as you were discussing the story I was reminded of something that I always thought was strange. How come the player's incarnation didn't succumb to amnesia? It was the first(?) incarnation to have this 'power'. Obviously there's a meta reason for that, because otherwise you can't really play the video game; but I think considering how much this idea of multiple incarnations and amnesia is explored there has to be an answer to this. I know that in one of the latter portions of the game you find someone or maybe a scroll that talks about there being a 'final' incarnation and that if it doesn't succeed that TNO will be doomed to memory loss forever. But it's never explained to my knowledge why that is or how it came to that. Has anyone made a timeline of incarnations? The paranoid one was probably one of the most recent ones in light of that particular prophecy talking about 3 more incarnations and the final one.
I vaguely recall there being an explanation in the game. I think it had something to do with what the paranoid incarnation did. It's been a while since I last played the game.
If I remember correctly, TNO's memories disappear after a certain number of deaths, but I'm not sure about that. Things that are definitely in the game do point to some other reasons, but those are spoiler territory, proceed with care : TNO might have to die in the Fortress of Regrets for his memories to fade, most likely due to the negative energy plane it happens to be on. I can't speak for the "good" incarnation, but it's confirmed for the "paranoid" and "practical" ones. As to the comment before regarding the paranoid incarnation, it's related to him destroying all the leads left by the practical one. This might also be why you don't otherwise lose your memories, your TNO has no record of his past events. I'm guessing that if you wake up with no memories and read your journal some of your previous personality will come through your writing. It makes the repetitive nature of "updated my journal" have even more meaning.
I'm so happy to see you're back. I hope you are finding some happiness and pleasure in this life. Your videos do look like someone who has found a great way to earn some money while expressing themselves artistically. That has to be a nice source of joy. :)
Damn, this game makes reference to the Dark Tower books? I really wish those booms were more popular so I could have people to talk to about them Weird aside, I once looked up a phrase from the books used to describe the sound that occurs in an area where dimensions bleed into each other. "Sounds Hawaiian doesn't it?" And when I looked that up for the first time, the top result on Google was a RUclips video from a Middle Eastern country, Pakistan I think, where they had recorded a strange noise that they described as the Trumpets of Revelation. No one had commented "Sounds Hawaian doesn't it?" on the video, I don't think it was in the description, and it certainly wasn't in the title. That phrase mystified me the first time I read it, and has sat even heavier at the back of my mind ever since looking it up.
Eh, I dunno. I still think Ravel comes across as every bit as much of a villain as she's built up to be. The fact that someone else managed to take advantage of her at some point doesn't make her any more sympathetic. She's still murdered so, so many people. Yeah, sure, she was able to feel love for The Nameless One's original self. Cool, Hitler also was able to love, he had a wife and daughter but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't hesitate to kill him if you could. She's a crazy, manipulative, selfish, _evil_ being and I feel no compassion for her, much as she has none for anyone else.
The irony from the Bitter Recompense section is... there was a novelization of Torment. And it wasn't that good. Go figure that taking a game that relies on player exploration, interpretation, and choice doesn't translate well into a novel. Guess some gamers just can't handle reading some letters on a screen.
You know, I never watched this video because I was convinced I was going to play the game first. The way life has been going lately, it seems a whole heck of a lot easier to just watch this feature-length review rather than dedicate 80 hours and several months to the game.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
This really updated my journal.
*Updated my journal*
*Updated my journal*
*Updated my journal.*
Updated my journal.
Updated my journal
*Endure. In enduring, grow strong.*
This line has gotten me through PTSD, agoraphobia, surgery, and other kinds of "torment" throughout my life. Every few days, despite it being many years since finishing it, I think of something from this game. It's one of a kind.
The game has also had a strong impact on me when I grew up and I know a close friend of mine who also had the same experience. I can't imagine we're the only ones.
dude, same thing happened to me for a while. The fact that a videogame character can actually affect the way you feel about struggle speaks volumes of the quality and heart felt passion the devs had while making planescape.
I had a similar experience with new Vegas. It's amazing how games can affect the way to deal with real life.
@@therandomdickhead5744 Any particular line or scene or just the playing experience in general?
For me it was RDR1. Man John in that game would plot, would not cheat and seemed like a solid dude.
Then when RDR2 was out, seeing John as a guy who made spur of the moment decisions, had to deal with the consequences of being rash. Well it was a moment of, "yep, I remember being that guy". There is even a cringe vid of 19y.o. me on YT, its a uh hangover/substance fueled outburst to a journey that went wrong back in the day. We look back and laugh now, but I always walk away far enough to not hear it.
I'm 38 and I've never commented on a RUclips video but I needed you to know how happy I was when I saw a new 2 hour+ Grimbeard video in my subscriptions. Your work is really appreciated. Thank you for doing this.
I am also 38 and love all of Grimm's content!
You are allowed to comment even IF you are ancient.
imagine posting as if 38 is some ancient age, from a generation that doesnt engage with technology.
first comment?? Ok boomer
At 38 you surley must've done a lot of trolling online. Some that you regrett, and some that you still laugh about.
One fun fact I love about the Nameless One's growth is that, while he can be a fighter, wizard, or thief, he can't be a cleric. Whatever the Good Incarnation did, no god, *not even the most evil of evil gods*, wants to grant him divine power.
Holy shit that *was* the good incarnation. That's actually kind of messed up.
Huh. I had thought it was multiple different incarnations(said something to that effect in the game manual?)that served all the different Gods and by the time we get to our incarnation TNO has served all of them at one point or another and because of reasons none of them will grant him power ever again.
@@ЯрославЛ-ф1жmakes sense since he is an atoner
Just when I started to think “Gee, I hope Grim is doing ok” you show up with a 2 hour banger.
HIs patreon updates are invaluable. Kick him a buck a month! (or more if you can)
For real this mf don’t miss
@@XeroxPunk You know I think you might have just convinced me.
Sus amugus had me dying, as did the trans rage part... "Ok bye, and they immediately evacuate their bladder" with a pissing sound in the background... Comedic genius
The video was doing so good until that part, RUclips needs a middle option as I couldn't give a thumbs up anymore but the rest was too good for a thumbs down. This won't age well as more and more butchered children come forward about how the movement ruined their lives.
I have bad news: Little Caesar's $5 pizza is now a $7 pizza and you don't even get anything extra. what the hell
Dude, they skipped $6?
Keep voting for democrats. I'm sure that will help
Updated my journal
@@tendiesoffmyplate9085 Don't blame me. I voted Putin.
@@tendiesoffmyplate9085 It's funny to me that you think that's the problem. Like it's The Lion King and as soon as "the right person" isn't in power, everything instantly falls to shit. As if these aren't the ramifications of global politics that have been building up since the last big economic crisis no matter who's in power because the system is designed to boom and bust like this.
Keep being dumb I guess.
In knowing the teachings of Grimbeard I have become stronger.
Step 1: Know of Grimbeard.
Step 2: Sup deeply of the learnings.
Step 3: Become one with the universe.
We shall become the strongest
the teachings of grimbead. amen
The second coming of Albert Camus!
What new magic powers did you get?
I’m on my third day of kicking heroin and you gave me the first laughs I’ve had since I started. Appreciate it. ❤
Hope youre doing well mate.
@@advancedlevelgaming appreciate that. Made it through. Clean since.
@@krebward Super glad to hear that. Wish you all the best and a future full of the things that fulfill you.
Wow. Keep up the good work! 👍🏻
@@krebwardThis is so heartwarming. Wishing you nothing but the best.
On the subject of this reveiw that says "there is no incentive to play beyond the first area", I just wanna retell my personnal experience. The first thing you can see when you're out of the Mortuary are a pillar and walls where the names of everey person who died is carved.
But there are so many dead that some of those names are just scribled and almost unreadable, so there is this ONE DUDE who just tries to remember all the names he ever read so that thoes guys would not be forgotten. THIS is Planescape, it's just, imo, brilliantly strange and a little sad. I dig it ;)
Wait... I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO RESURRECT PEOPLE?!?!?
This dude deserves way more attention on yt.
Thank you for all the time and effort you put on these videos Grim
Agree
He's super niche yet extremely well goth. In retrospect, I subtly agree whilst appreciating his perspective.
dakkon is the only npc in my 30 years of gaming, who made my jaw drop, with the level of his writing and his principles. to this day The Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon continues to baffle me with its sheer wisdom.
Balance in all things.
Except the circle of Zert is all bullshit. It was created by the Nameless One. It turned Dak'kon into a slave that the Nameless One could manipulate.
@@-Zakhiel- His teachings are wise tho, and they grant magical powers. The "Why" it was created matters, but it does not negate the power the teachings have.
its based a lot upon zen from hinduism/buddhism/stoicism
@@-Zakhiel- it doesn't matter, there's power in belief. Power enough to unmake a man, or grow a tree.
It's kinda late, but I can stay up for another hour and watch Grim Beard talk about my favorite game. I still think "Planescape: Torment" is one of the best storytelling experiences I've ever had playing a game.
Sure, you can stay up for another hour, but can you stay up for another TWO HOURS?!?
ever
game, book, movie
and I've experienced a lot
Endure, in enduring grow strong.
I don’t know how I missed this. I played a tonne of these games. Baldurs Gate 1&2, ice wind dale, stonekeep just loads of them and somehow I missed this. Well, got some classic gaming to catch up on…
@@adamwest8711 this is a different beast than those
do you like to read novels? if not, then this game may not be for you
I particularly like the version of the ending where falls-From-Grace delibrately takes just a little bit of your soul in a kiss...so she will be able to FIND you in the blood war. She is, after all, an immortal demon living in a planar nexus. One can imagine the follow-up quest.
...i don't remember that. Not sure if it's because it didn't happen to me, or because there was just so many powerful things that this one got lost amongst them... Either way, it's sad that I don't remember it, because that's... amazing.
Also, for a time, I was actually trying to write and make P:T2 - The Blood War, so... yeah, one can definitely imagine the follow-up quest =D
(I was 13years old, so whatever I wrote and made (in RPG Maker) was utter crap, but... I was certainly feeling inspired =D)
i have a funny version of the ending to trade you to, though.
maybe... if you don't know about it yet:
you can become the new king of Dead Nations.
@@MidnightSt oh i know it. It counts as a bad end becuase you're stuck in a freaking chair for the rest of eternity. You can also piss off the Lady of Pain or that necrormancer that kidnaps Morte and meet a final end as well.
This doesnt happen in every ending- I've seen two. She did mention in one ending of searching for you but it would be difficult because the planes are infinite. I always thought this was them setting up for a sequel that...alas...never happened :/
@@MidnightSt There are several endings to the game. I've heard as many as 8 but haven't verified that. I've seen 2 myself.
Interesting tidbit I can't help but mention everywhere:
The game actually contains a script which, when Nameless One dies, picks a random unimportant NPC in the area you died in, and kills them.
When there's no unimportant NPCs left, you actually get an actual game over screen.
(Not sure if the enhanced edition does it too, but the original one did. You can test it out, just keep dying in lower sigil, and watch as/if it gradually depopulates =D)
Never noticed, though my Nameless didn't die that often tbh, and as far as I remember it was most often in areas where there wouldn't be a whole lot of neutral NPCs in the vicinity so I wonder how those were handled.
@@childesinthev.761 i don't remember it exactly, so i'm not sure, but I think "random unimportant npc" also includes enemies.
however what I DO remember exactly is actually reading that script when i was rummaging around in the game's files with the mod tools, as well as I remember what i said - i kept dying in lower sigil, noticed it depopulating, kept dying, and then got a game over screen, a special one for that case (but i don't remember what it said, i just remember it was unlike any other of the game over screens you can get)
There's also this bit where the more times you die, the more shadows show up to plague you in... well, in a certain location.
@@MidnightSt Perhaps you don't remember because each time you die, you lose a piece of yourself. While the body can heal, it is your mind that pays the price...
Early on if you run afoul of the Dustmen, there are situations where you'll just be talking with a random NPC in the street and they'll say something to the extent of "hey wait a minute, aren't you that Wanted guy?" and your immediate dialogue options include just snapping their neck and murdering them to keep them from calling the guards and starting a combat encounter... and there are essentially no negative consequences for doing this. There's no BS alignment system that game-ifies your decision. You don't get any naughty-points. Your party members don't turn against you. You successfully avoid combat. You're the only person who knows what you did. The first time I killed someone in this way, I expected to be tut-tuted by the game, and the fact that the universe didn't seem to care that I'd just murdered someone in cold blood ate away at me. I've literally felt guilty about it for over 20 years, and it's a perfect summation of what makes Planescape so great.
There is an alignment system, though?
@@supertaoman12 it’s not visible to the player though - it only operates behind the scenes so the game doesn’t tell you anything has happened. It’s not that there is no alignment at all - just that it isn’t reductive and obvious, hence, no “BS” where the game editorializes loudly on your actions. You need to install a mod just to see how your alignment is affected by various actions.
This is how I felt gunning down civilians in spec ops the line. No warnings about civilians, nothing but your actions and the corpse in front of you.
It then overdoes this a bit later but it's fine
i tried it for a few times, got confident then tried it again with the wrong npc, turned out it the guy didn't die and he kicked my ass and made everything hostile in that area. I would have done better trying to reason with him. It does throw a few curve balls at you
Ultima Underworld had the same concept. You could go to towns and pick up quests and do business, or just wipe out the entire city and take everything. None of them ever come back.
I often describe it as the best book I have ever played, and the best game I have ever read.
Yup :)
Accurate
You might enjoy Disco Elysium. Not the same vibe fantasy wise but the level of writing, the fact that you read more than play, and even some of the themes are very similar. Worth checking out at least (if you haven't already).
Too specific for such a universal masterpiece
@@thechris312 Disco Elysium was great.
I listen to Whirling in Rags at least once a week still, lol.
Dak'kon for me always played sort of a "Vergil" role.
As you start the game, TNO almost aimlessly wanders this forest of houses, or places, called Sigil, just like Dante wanders the forest, not knowing how or why they got there and the only way forward is well, anywhere. The point is not to just explore Torment's places, but also philosophies. While every npc serves as a moral compass for their alignment. Dak'kon's role is so much more refined and meaningful. Playing the role of an underworld guide, clearly knowing more than he let's on, Dak'kon still never influence's TNO's choices directly, but puts emphasis on term "knowing", subtly making TNO use more of his brain in general, while also putting even greater emphasis on "knowing oneself", which is the main motive of his religion/philosophy and also both, his and TNO's greatest problem. Both Dak'kon and TNO have lost themselves and are trying to find themselves by helping the other one find himself. However, there is also more to just knowing and knowing oneself. Knowing the nature of a man, or nature of sin, as Dante put it, seems to be the key question/philosophy of Planescape and the Divine Comedy, and I find it rather sad when people focus on a question "what can change the nature of a man?" when they should be focusing on "what is the nature of a man?" which might seem silly at first but in actuality is an incredibly complex topic, with no real conclusion.
The theme itself reminds me of a tale about a scorpion and a frog, in which a scorpion stings a frog while it's carrying it across the river apologizing for killing them both and saying "It's in my nature." Which is even more fascinating when you look at the older version of the same tale which includes a scorpion and a turtle in which they both survive with turtle having the last say: "Truly have the sages said that to cherish a base character is to give one's honor to the wind, and to involve one's own self in embarrassment." It's truly fascinating to see same conflicting philosophical ideas pop up for hundreds of years, if not longer.
The other thing I find fascinating are similarities between Dak'kon and Zerthimon, and, Saint Peter and Jesus in Matthew 14:22-33 (google it and read it, it's very short). Dak'kon, being a devout follower of Zerthimon, loses his faith which causes him to realize he does not "know" himself which causes the ground beneath him to lose way and turn into liquid, and he can only be saved by "knowing oneself" which he confirms by solidifying his faith.
What are you talking about? I played Devil May Cry to its completion and that never happens...
🙃
Absolutely love this channel. The vibe, the humor, the editing. It's such a refreshing change from everything else out there. Hope you keep up the good work
"There will be fiendish babes, *human babes,* angelic babes, *asian babes,* and even undead babes."
I love the idea of an executive reading this and going, "SOLD! Y'know, when you were just promising _human_ babes, I was iffy on it. But then I kept reading and when I saw you're planning on including those famously nonhuman _Asian babes,_ ya got me onboard!" lmao XD
the most heinous of crimes "preorder a ubisoft game"
I know this isn't the focus of this video, but since it went so bizarrely hard on the Beamdog controversy, I feel someone should point out what the video says on the topic is misleading. I doubt anyone cares about all the details, but for the main example, most people who got angry about the trans character weren't upset about a trans character existing in the game (of course, some sucky people were). Most people were upset she was a poorly written, offensive tokenization.
Imagine devs noticed their game had no black people so they added one NPC who, as almost his first comment to you says, "Hi I'm black." That'd feel weird. And that's what happened here. The character was written so poorly it stood out like a sore thumb. Them being trans had no relevance to anything said or done, and them telling you they're trans made no sense at all. It was pure tokenization. It was putting a trans character in just so they could say, "We have a trans character!" It's gross.
You don't promote inclusivity by having a throwaway NPC awkwardly tell the player they're trans for no reason. That does the opposite. It presents trans individuals as strange, unusual and ultimately unimportant as anything more than a novelty. I'm happy when I see good trans representation in games, but Beamdog's handling of this was so inept it made me nauseous to read.
I was in the threads when people were mad at her inclusion.
The fact she was trans was absolutely a major factor in the general dislike of her.
@@calisto789 I'm not sure what you mean by "the threads" as the issue was discussed in many places across many sites, but I have no doubt for some people in some areas her being trans was enough of an issue for them to be upset.
However, the overall discourse was not merely about her being trans. This is evident by the many contemporaneous articles at the time which discussed how the poor writing of the character caused her being trans to be off-putting like I described. This was made worse by Beamdog kneejerk reaction of defending what they did, pretending criticisms were merely from bigots.
The actual truth is what Beamdog put in its game was a harmful type of tokenization, which while presumably unintentional, was in fact a form of bigotry.
1:21:35 Anna is a Tifling, a half fiend. Fall-From-Grace embodies everything Anna blames for the misery she's been heaped with because of a legacy she never once asked for. Anna has all the MORE reason to caff against Fall From Grace BECAUSE she's not a stereotypical demon, she CHALLENGES Anna's views, which never makes anymore comfortable.
Big brain take
That is what I was realizing. Both are "decent" people, for the world they inhabit. However, Fall-From-Grace is the complete opposite of what a demoness is "supposed" to be, the very thing that Anna gets lumped in with.
Naaaah putting a gamergate reference in a form of media is always a terrible idea, you immediately date the work. And not in the understandable "Oh yeah it was a different time" kind of way, but in the "oh the writer is fucken lame" kind of way.
Like an attack helicopter joke, covfefe joke, lets go brandon joke. Dumbass political slogans are the weakest low hanging fruit.
Love your rat sentiments bro, Rat gang 4 lyfe
1:12:01 he didnt try to cheat his way into heaven. He just did something unforgivable that he couldnt never do right in a single lifetime. So his solution was to gain more than one lifetime of time.
>some slang terms that don't have a basis in reality, like "cutter" and "barmy"
Wow. Let me tell you about this country called "England" and it's wonderful language...
As someone who's recently started collecting and enjoying crt tvs again, I love the tv segments and the editing, looks awesome and probably a blast to do or total chore to get to look right! b.t.w. I just found a pink disney princess tv/vhs/dvd combo on the side of the road and set it up for my daughter!
This video is longer than the movie Aliens ... and I've re-watched this more. Aliens is one of my favorite movies. Do I have to now include this video in my "favorite movies" list?
This game is defined by only one thing - whether you are involved in the plot and the world or not, whether you want to have answers. If you are - it will be one of the most interesting games ever for you. The plot completely forms the game, to be honest - the second playthrough, even after 9 years, was far from being so interesting. And my first playthrough was messed up in funny way because for roleplaying reasons I decided to leave all my companions before visiting Ravel. Who could've knew that it would be impossible to go back and I would end the game with an insanely powerful wizard who has collected all the experience which was meant for 5 people, with all stats 25 long before the end
Oh, I got involved in the world and the plot, I played this game as an obsession, And when playing the game wasn't enough for me, I ripped all the dialogue and the dev commentary from the game and consumed it all, I had a good two months when I went completely down the rabbit hole on this game.
I have never done that with any other game/book/film, it was an obsession, and honestly when I look back upon it now I look back with fondness.
Who knew that leaving everyone behind can end up making you stronger lol
I'm 38 and I've never commented on a RUclips video but I had to let you know that I shit my pants in my dads front yard when I was 23 years old.
Crohn's Disease is a hell of a drug, haha
That was an amazing review! Wasn't sure I would ever have the patience for another run of Planescape, but now I am. You do deserve more recognition
"On the brink of womanhood" - yuck.
Are you a zoomer pretending to be 35?
That’s the gimmick yes. He’s mocking people that like old shit he pirates.
I can't believe you said Sigil instead of Sigil.
Completely disagree on the whole Beamdog issue. It's one thing to put in dumb non-sense in your new DLC, it's another when said non-sense ignores/shits on the established lore or characters.
It's not theirs to change. Simple as that. Something tells me you wouldn't agree with Beamdog when Minsc would quote Ben Shapiro, Alex Jones, or whoever.
it is theirs actually
They're the developers so they can do whatever they want.
Considering Ben and Alex are performance artists who hock and mock those who honestly watch them it wouldn’t be a good fit for Minsc who’s an actual brain-damaged individual.
To whom it concerns,
If you too miss the taste of P E P S I B L U E, I have a surprising solution! Take a bottle of sprite and mix in a packet of powdered Propel Berry flavoring. BAM, perfect recreation.
My only real issue with the beamdog editions is that they removed the original versions from stores when they came out.
Plus I don,t think they included OR supported the banter accelerator which is pretty essential for PST.
they also removed the name of original creators from the store pages, now most people (who never played original) might think Beamdog are the original creators
Well it sure is a good thing the EE versions of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 aren't bug ridden messes that they still need to patch to this day to even get on par with the stability of the original games on older hardware... oh wait-
As dumb as the negative reviews were they are right about combat. CRPG pause and play combat is just terrible and as someone who's favorite genre is CRPGs I was really hoping the new wave would drop old school pause and play. I think voice vs text is more subjective(although more people clearly want voiced) but I really don't think the combat part is that subjective. There's a reason DoS became the biggest hit out of the modern CRPGs. Not only is it voiced but they picked a more focused combat style. I hope developers start to understand what truly made CRPGs good and stop just copying every part of the older games. They don't need to look, sound and play like the old school games. The just need to focus on story, characters and choice.
One of your best vids (right up there with Deus Ex) and that's saying something. 100k round the corner for sure.
Why-where-how? This whole channel is a frigging dragon's hoard worth of treasure and I've been oblivious of it!
I vibe 100% with this humor and just everything offered here.
I played Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale first, but Planescape: Torment was always my favourite, due to the sheer choices presented to you, and the way the setting and characters are fleshed out. Not many developers do this with CRPGs, especially nowadays. Disco Elysium was the most recent RPG that I've played that I felt got the exploration/storytelling/pacing correct while having little to no combat
This is quite possibly the best video on RUclips about the best game that ever was.
Thanks for that bit about Lustmord being the intended composer for P:T's soundtrack. While I think Mark Morgan has done a fabulous job, creating something as strange and seemingly discordant as Sigil itself, I can't help but imagine how it would have sounded like if Interplay didn't decide to sever ties with L. Shame about that.
On an unrelated note, I think combat in P:T can be massively satisfying under some circumstances. While it lacks the strategic depth of, say, Baldur's Gate, where you would have to genuinely think how to best approach every encounter and prepare for most of them with spells and potions, it has something else - if you remember the first time you used Mechanus Cannon on somebody, or ever managed to land a sneak attack on Trias for 150 damage, you will know what I mean. I guess it's more of a power fantasy thing if anything else, but it really nails the feeling of being a few centuries old immortal that could wield fabulous power if only he remembered how to do that!
It's such a shame that the new generation of gamers can't find in themselves what it takes to appreciate this absolute diamond of a game. I don't think it's anyone's fault - they are a product of their world as much as we are - but still, it's a fantastic, enthralling and thought-provoking story that does not deserve to be forgotten. Thank you - again - for doing your part in keeping its legacy alive.
After finishing, some tidbits and Devil's Advocacy:
- The official novel is awful. Just plain awful. First off, it names The Nameless One. Secondly, that name is Thane. Thirdly, did I mention that they decide that The Nameless One's name is Thane? Fourthly, he uses a sword.
- It does, however, expand on Fhjull Forked-Tongue, retroactively making them the most important character. Unfortunately, this includes spelling out why TNO had Ravel take away his mortality.
- That "why no 1st person camera?" review is hilarious. The levels are flat images with walkable sections, so that camera wouldn't be terribly useful. A jump button, though... now we're talking.
- It's thematically appropriate that so many people stop playing, when they get to Carceri.
- I wish that the Steam achievements for P:T that require multiple playthroughs were self-aware.
- Two Worlds is a great speedrun game. Kind of weird that they added so much terrible optional content.
Beamdog hot-takes:
- IMHO, the trans vendor trash merchant's behavior in SoD doesn't make any sense. Hank and Becky would be exotic names that someone would comment on, in the Forgotten Realms, not Mizhena or anything else that you'd get from smashing your face on a keyboard. Besides, Elminster is trans, you can make any of your party members trans within the first 15 minutes of the very first game, and Edwina is very popular. It's like having a dialogue option to ask a Walmart cashier about their vest.
- A common interpretation of Safana's character is that she uses her massive Charisma to manipulate people in a very Chaotic Neutral sort of way for fun and profit. Beamdog slut-shaming her and implicating the players was a bit offensive. People generally don't like being told how they feel. It reminded me of EAWare's Dragon Age 2 DLC assuming that the player visited prostitutes on a regular basis (to set up a joke, where your character preferring the trans one is the punchline) with the writers being shocked in interviews that anyone would play a character that would be faithful to their romantic partner, much less not have a romantic partner at all.
Beamdog's writing is bad in general, and instead of trying to get better, they seem to insult their customers for making valid criticisms. Sure, some critics are bigoted nutjobs, but that's always going to be the case. The fact some nutjobs exist doesn't invalidate criticisms of your product general. Quite frankly, when it comes to its writing, Beamdog's output is... not good. And in this case, it was... not good... in ways that were sometimes gross.
For instance, tokenization. Having your only trans character be unimportant and irrelevant, with their gender identity only being revealed in a ham-fisted way never relevant to anything ever again is gross as it presents them not as a person but as a weird novelty. Dismissing the character of Safara by slut shaming her to claim she is nothing but a "sex object" is... well, sexist as it pretends femme fatales can't personality and character. Saying Jaheera was nothing but a "nagging wife" is both bizarre and offensive. These were real characters with actual personality. Maybe they could have been written better, but guess what? Dismissing their character/personality with reductivist descriptions like those is actually being sexist. Beamdog were the ones who saw these characters as nothing more than their gender.
I get it. Writing is hard. If they sincerely tried their best but just failed to do a good job, people would understand. But they didn't. Their lead writer explicitly said she didn't care if the dialogue she wrote felt "forced" to people, with her and the company dismissing critics as being sexist and transphobic. No. Doing a bad job then dismissing anyone who criticizes you as a bigot is gross.
my grandma bought me Fallout 1(who knows why) and i loved that game, and years later a friend lend me a cd with Planescape Torment, i think it was cracked?? im talking maybe 9 years ago, or maybe even more, and i loved that game so much
planescape dudes didnt see a penny of my money, until they released it years later on steam, which i bought right away
back on the day it was easier to pirate a game, now it is easier to just buy it and download it
Looks like a pretty good game, chief! Every time that I think your research and ability to repackage all of the information into perfectly sized chunks can't get any better, you get better. You've - no joke - inspired the way that I make videos... that are never finished/uploaded, because I can't physically make myself edit audio of my own voice.
(On a sidenote, I love that there are speedruns of P:T, which are basically spoiler-free.)
*perfectly-sized
Sigh.
@@dildojizzbaggins6969 Holy shit, I'm a grammar/spelling nazi and even I think you're being pedantic.
It's a decent kotor 2 knockoff but needed moar pew pew lasers.
@@dildojizzbaggins6969 sized perfectly
@@planescaped It's like Skyrim with words.
Warlockracy recently did a KOTOR 2 video that made many comparisons to P:T. My pet theory is that - much like how KOTOR 2 lampshades scaling enemies and both games include cheeky in-game lore to explain why CRPGs give you a party of misfit loners that hate each other - P:T is would it would be like for a character whose life is save-scummed to experience all of a game's content.
If they altered someone else's work and removed the ability for people to play the original the review bombers are unironically in the right imo.
So beamdog actually changed original content? Not just added stuff through the dlc?
@@whoknows8264 For SoD, Beamdog writers retconned a lot of characters, and then because they appear in BG2 they get retconned back, like what happened in SoD did not happen. They really wrote themselves into corners multiple times.
I don't agree with this argument because you can just pirate the original version if you want to.
is it worse?
Isn't SoD an expansion? That can be completely ignored? Or did they also change BG 1 and 2?
Honest question, never played the Enhanced Editions of those games.
Despite all the claims that Torment is "just a book with bad combat attached", the ability to make distinct character choices is really what *makes* this game. I will never ever make an absolutely evil choice, like thrusting Morte into the pillar of skulls. However, having such a wide variety of options available as a player is what elevates Planescape.
As for the Beamdog situation, it's astonishing to me that so many people (even in this comment section) can't seem to grasp the concept of thinking something was "meh" or "bad" and then simply moving on, rather than it having it consume their entire online personality.
I think of it as a sign of maturity. Or lack thereof.
PM lplol6yyyy6
Fraà
Planescape Torment is one of the few RPGs which allow you to be evil but I find it so repugnant going all the way down that path I can't do it. There's no joy in it it's the equivalent of feeling like being kicked in the nads over and over making Dak'kon your slave, being cruel to Morte, lying to Annah about liking her etc.
I don't know if I would be so quick to throw Chris Avalon under the bus, unless you know something I don't.. I mean that that kind of thing it's much easier on the corporate end to burn all your Bridges then actually care about anyone and his situation has a lot more of the framing of that.. but you know I think that goes for anybody.
Please play this game. I just got it for the first time early this year and after finishing it, it really is one of the best games ever made (at least in terms of story/writing). It's really that good.
There's a lot a work behind every video. We thank thee for such quality content
You know people have been trying to sell me on this game for easily 20+ years, and I even tried an abortive attempt at playing it roughly a decade ago and bounced off, but how has no one of them thought to mention this to me that Keith David is in this MF? Is this game really just so overall GOATed that Keith FUCKING David is somehow a footnote? AND Dan Castallenata AND Tony Jay? Holy fucking shit.
Why was Keith fucking a guy named David?
@@AC-hj9tv Perhaps a deleted scene from Requiem for a Dream.
@@-Zakhiel- 💯
Hearing that motif from the soundtrack never fails to give me chills.
I'm glad i'm awake for this. Thank you Grim!
Planescape, my childhood, my worries, my love, my death. This was a game. Thank you Grimmy.
I too chuckled at "gay actor Michael Douglas"
Never heard of your channel before today, but I love PS:T so much and you’re not transphobic so you’ve earned a subscriber, cutter. I love your humour and it’s not something often found in videos on Planescape.
I’ve used this video to put me to sleep 3 days in a row now. Underrated video use.
I hate so much modern, SF, minimalist UI they put now on every games, even fantasy ones. UI is part of the DA, it should tale a story, contribute to the story. It's even more true when gamedev hide the UI or integrate it in the gameworld (Deadspace).
This came up at random, and I gotta say, you are the first time RUclips recommendations have gotten it *just* right
1:19:33 wait a moment, since when all this sh*t is representative of all the normal peoples who used to play games? wasn't all of that just for investors and media attention?
I can't even begin to imagine the time and effort it took to write and record such a banging script. Thoroughly enjoyed this 2 hour binge, Grim, can't wait to see what you release next! 🙂
The problem with Beamdog is they're infamous for their scummy business practices. Their remasters offered nothing (apparently not even bug fixes) that you couldn't get from the original games for half the price and free fan-made patches, so they removed the originals from the store and packaged them with their remasters, so anyone wanting the orginals would then have to pay twice as much to so-called "developers" who didn't even make the damn game. And then there's Siege of Dragonspear, which was the DLC equivilent of Mass Effect: Andromeda or Cyperpunk 2077; A god-awful dumpster fire featuring a character who existed solely to state her gender identity to the player in a pathetic attempt to distract people from the countless real problems the game had. Calling this character a token minority feels like an insult to token minorities.
There's also giving themselves glowing reviews, charging money for a portrait pack featuring only six portraits (at least one of which is just a bad photoshop of a real person's face onto actual artwork), and probably many more things, but these are the two biggest examples.
I’m always pumped when I see a Grim notification but an almost 2 1/2 hour epic on Planescape:Torment? Unreal.
Also, Para-Pug is still my favourite, fully-developed bit but the “Roll a D12 to see how successfully you go fuck yourself” was hilarious.
dude i actually want to see you cover two worlds 😭 at least the clusterf*ck that’s two worlds 2 and its gaggle of dlc
Oh god I would have loved it if they made a Planescape game in the style of King's Field. That guy had good fucking taste.
Just to point out you can actually lose the game and die, or get trapped. There are a few ways. but all of them is the result of your choic and kinda alternative ending... very early ending... But that's the thing, Torment is not more a game, that it's a roleplay adventure, and roleplay is about acting, not gaming. So yes, it is more of a interactive story than a game, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
"Overcook chicken? Maze. Miss a dentist appointment? Believe it or not: Maze."
Of cause Asian babes have their own category, they're the best babes!
Did Beamdog go back on their word and removed the classic versions? Why yes they did! Did they use common fan patches to “enhance” it? Who knows! Did they bring back Chris Avellone to re-edit the story so they didn’t get another controversy? No one was paying attention! I paid for the GOG classic versions, I’m not buying another copy 😂
I think the same about Tides, the game just tries too hard to be Torment, and ends up being worst because of it
OH HELL YEAH BRO i was about to go to sleep i can't wait to watch this when i wake up i hope you're doing well Grim!!!!!!!
Thanks for the amazing content!
I got laid off yesterday and really appreciate the distraction!
You're probably my favourite video game reviewer on youtube
"read a book instead" meme gotta out of hand. Joking about it, ok, but actually put in a review.. oh man.. there's a big difference between being an active and a passiv part (hehe).. and I could go on and con why that isn't just the same.. but well..
Who's gonna read this comment anyway?
Hi future me, who will eventually stumble on its own comment again!
I did!
@@TheHalogen131 YOU ARE MY HERO OF THE DAY!
For those who care about the Beamdog controversy but don't want to spend an hour online looking it up:
The basic controversy was when in addition to making ports of older titles they decided to throw their hat into the ring of making content for them. Siege of Dragonspear was content made for Baldurs Gate 1 that was supposed to bridge the gap between 1 and 2. It was a nightmare. In extreme basic: It brought modern politics into the mix, bastardized the characterizations of many characters (Including one of the female romance options, the drow, turning her into a 'strong female character' by Beamdog's standards which just translated to irrational hate of the PC.), turned many characters into memes (There's now a voiceline of Minsc's VA saying "Really, it's all about Ethics in Heroic Adventuring." And I hate this.) and so on.
And when confronted on this they became oppositional toward their target audience. It's not really a wonder people didn't want to let Beamdog make money off a product they did not think they respected. To sum up, Beamdog did the one thing you should not do in nostalgic media: Fucked with people's childhoods.
Found this after having just finished the game for the first time. I really enjoyed your review and agree with pretty much everything you put forth. One issue I had with the game, however, was that for this game that's been lauded for majority of my life as "best written ever" -- It really suffers by making very important dialog be repeatable and often is necessary for the player to just grind through dialog trees. This is really at it's worst when talking with companions and in the final area... It feels less 'role-playing' and more 'codex mining'.
That and it's kind of grating to have every conversation go "Greetings. I have questions". You are right in that this game walked so Disco could run.
Is there really a NPC named Jordan B. Peterson in the Enhanced Edition of the game? I noticed this at time 41:55 and was wondering if this was legitimate or a fake screen? If it is legitimate, where do you find this character in the game?
I reacted to this upload with glee befitting a child looking beneath a heavingly-boxed Christmas tree. THANK YOU GRIMBO MCGRIMBLEFACE.
Fantastic video, loved it. Play Torment, don't read it!
"yeah, i could rescue your cat" is a great phrase i'm going to steal. i'm a speech teacher, and when i want to talk about how emphasis is often at least as important as word choice, i use the phrase "i never said she took my money." "i never *said* she took my money," "i never said *she* took my money," etc.
I played this game last year, because I remembered people saying it was quite good. It certainly showed its age, but the writing made that laughably irrelevant. What a timeless masterpiece.
Excellent video, you have a new subscriber!
god i get so pumped every time you upload. Its like a burning that starts in my taint and rips up my spine until my hair is on fire like one of those 90s kids in the sega ads. And the only thing that will put it out is seeing that banger of an intro
Before Disco Elysium, there was Planescape: Torment.
love your content but if 'how could you care about this' applies, why do you care about someone killing an NPC? Seems like a pot-kettle thing. I have no idea what the video is and how toxic it may be but if you are gonna say "why do you care?" I have to ask... "why do YOU care?", about what you described as pixels.
Why do you care that he cares?
Freedom of expression. Everyone, from the ''I killed trans character' guy, to the guy who posted this video, to you, to me.
Regardless of opinion on any issue, we all seem to believe the freedom to express an opinion underpins any issue worth having an opinion on, if you follow.
Hypocrisy doesn't apply, even though we often use the term to argue against others.
If guy A wants to express his disdain for trans people, he can hardly be outraged when guy B replies with disdain towards him.
The only thing that matters is that the environment for disdain to be exchanged between people remains open and unrestricted.
As long as this is the case, we'll be fine, you massive prick. (And if you dont insult me in return, then we're all fucked) 😊
This video is just pixels, yet you care a lot.
because the weirdo who hates the pixels representing a trans person also hates trans people irl. are you stupid?
To be honest, beside the clusterfuck of the quality of those enhanced version, if the dlc transstuff was not just political, there would have been at least a choice, "I don't care shut up" to this conversation. Or clearly you cannot express you evil or chaotic alignment, that's not role play. And they would not have insisted so much on the marketing side of this release on this subject.
i got a problem to feel that unique vibe and dark spirit of the game at the beggining too. I was expecting, well more generic dungeons and dragons after baldurs gate and other similiar fantasy games. I was hit in the face, and shocked at the start, left with "what the hell is going on" in my mind. But I returned (twice tbh), and made past the first area. Now its the best rpg I ever played
Great review, but you could have spend more time talking about the rats...
"might have been good in the days before they had books"
Oh yeah, planescape torment, a game that came out before books.
This is a great video, you did really good. That said I am so tired of RUclips being packed to the brim with essays about niche things about old video games. This is one of the few that is not lazy and has actual thought put into it. And you conveyed how great and chaotic this game from 20 years ago is. But all of my reccomendeds is just fucking people talking for hours about topics that literally matter to nobody just so they can plug a 15 second curiosity stream, square space, raid shadow legends annoying ass ad in my face for the millionth time. I hate RUclips so much... But thankyou for making a good video.
First time seeing your channel Grimbeard, amazing content and I'm so happy there's more recognition of this cRPG masterpiece. Only 1hour into this video essay, but as you were discussing the story I was reminded of something that I always thought was strange. How come the player's incarnation didn't succumb to amnesia? It was the first(?) incarnation to have this 'power'. Obviously there's a meta reason for that, because otherwise you can't really play the video game; but I think considering how much this idea of multiple incarnations and amnesia is explored there has to be an answer to this.
I know that in one of the latter portions of the game you find someone or maybe a scroll that talks about there being a 'final' incarnation and that if it doesn't succeed that TNO will be doomed to memory loss forever. But it's never explained to my knowledge why that is or how it came to that. Has anyone made a timeline of incarnations? The paranoid one was probably one of the most recent ones in light of that particular prophecy talking about 3 more incarnations and the final one.
I vaguely recall there being an explanation in the game. I think it had something to do with what the paranoid incarnation did.
It's been a while since I last played the game.
If I remember correctly, TNO's memories disappear after a certain number of deaths, but I'm not sure about that.
Things that are definitely in the game do point to some other reasons, but those are spoiler territory, proceed with care :
TNO might have to die in the Fortress of Regrets for his memories to fade, most likely due to the negative energy plane it happens to be on. I can't speak for the "good" incarnation, but it's confirmed for the "paranoid" and "practical" ones.
As to the comment before regarding the paranoid incarnation, it's related to him destroying all the leads left by the practical one.
This might also be why you don't otherwise lose your memories, your TNO has no record of his past events. I'm guessing that if you wake up with no memories and read your journal some of your previous personality will come through your writing. It makes the repetitive nature of "updated my journal" have even more meaning.
I played this game because of this video. Thankyou.
There are plenty of trans and nongendered characters in fantasy, a lot of them being gods.
Slaanesh for example.
Thanks, dream where my dad was being threatened by the mob, now I can watch Grimbeard at 5 AM.
Ayyyy fuggedaboutit
after Ravel the game feels unpolished - similar issue with Disco Elysium after tribunal
The dream is the only interesting thing afterward, but the anti-climax is heightened if you take a chance.
I'm so happy to see you're back. I hope you are finding some happiness and pleasure in this life. Your videos do look like someone who has found a great way to earn some money while expressing themselves artistically. That has to be a nice source of joy. :)
Damn, this game makes reference to the Dark Tower books? I really wish those booms were more popular so I could have people to talk to about them
Weird aside, I once looked up a phrase from the books used to describe the sound that occurs in an area where dimensions bleed into each other. "Sounds Hawaiian doesn't it?"
And when I looked that up for the first time, the top result on Google was a RUclips video from a Middle Eastern country, Pakistan I think, where they had recorded a strange noise that they described as the Trumpets of Revelation.
No one had commented "Sounds Hawaian doesn't it?" on the video, I don't think it was in the description, and it certainly wasn't in the title. That phrase mystified me the first time I read it, and has sat even heavier at the back of my mind ever since looking it up.
Eh, I dunno. I still think Ravel comes across as every bit as much of a villain as she's built up to be. The fact that someone else managed to take advantage of her at some point doesn't make her any more sympathetic. She's still murdered so, so many people. Yeah, sure, she was able to feel love for The Nameless One's original self. Cool, Hitler also was able to love, he had a wife and daughter but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't hesitate to kill him if you could. She's a crazy, manipulative, selfish, _evil_ being and I feel no compassion for her, much as she has none for anyone else.
Hitler is real and Ravel is a character in a narrative though
Hey, its your buddy Chad! Congrats on another great video! Did you happen to install Linux yet?..... No? ...... You said you would..... Try it.....
The irony from the Bitter Recompense section is... there was a novelization of Torment. And it wasn't that good. Go figure that taking a game that relies on player exploration, interpretation, and choice doesn't translate well into a novel. Guess some gamers just can't handle reading some letters on a screen.
You know, I never watched this video because I was convinced I was going to play the game first. The way life has been going lately, it seems a whole heck of a lot easier to just watch this feature-length review rather than dedicate 80 hours and several months to the game.