No KICK/BASS Phase Cancellation Ever Again Because Of This Technique!
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
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No KICK/BASS Phase Cancellation Ever Again Because Of This Technique!
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It's getting to the point that you're becoming a professor with the most specific doctorate in existence.
😂
I agree!!!
Phd in digital phase analysis and engineering of the interaction between low end of kick and bass in psy trance music😂😂😂
Best comment of the year so far 💯
E clip has a lot of tricks on this topic.
I been doing something very similar with my bass patches for a bit and it's great. So much control + I reccomend resampling phase shift processing into wavetables like I did for my pack that way you have even more control!
Your tutorials are equally cool.
@@banebojic3965 Thanks!
i learned that from you :) and use your pack ^^
Absolutely love this! Really appreciate your knowledge and taking the time to explain your methods to get better and easier results for psytrance! Psytrance is more accessible production wise thanks to you! ❤
Very helpful because i messed up with this problem most of the time. I however trying to get this with side chaining bass but phase problem i can't able to solve and you just showed me the accurate way to do it thank you brother.🎉
Super neat! I've been using reese bass minus the fundamental for years in Serum to get a stable fundamental with the sub. That harmonic filter trick to get the effect across a whole wave table is awesome!
Professional sound sculptor 👏🏼good work Hawkins i follow
So simple and elegant, and a perfect solution to the problem. Love this technique!
Thank you! Cheers!
Dude that disperser technique is something I've always wanted to try. There are lot of artists who rinse it but it's also defined their basses. Super mad. Shame I haven't dabbled in phase plant
Great insight as alwats man! Could you also make a tutorial on techniques when using long sustained bass notes? Always had issues mixing kick/bass without getting a huge pumping effect on the bass, which isn't what I'm going for. :/
That's going to make all the difference to a melodic base well done
Dash you are a damn hero. thank you so much
Oh yeah!!! It's all coming together! 🔥🔥🔥
Very appreciated Prof. Dr. D.Glitch
Great one again. Thx Dash for the explanation. 😊
GG!! Thank you a lot 👍
Nice work, Dash!
Now I'm looking at the FET filter in Avenger in a whole new way. Gonna need some key tracking. Thanks for this, love the song, feel free to show more.
Enjoy! Although if i'm not mistaken this filter is based in the spectral domain, so there is some "bluring" that happens to the transients because of the window size.
thanks for the video
I love how all the knowledge I’ve ever paid for is just becoming more and more available for free!
Eso mismo hacia con un ecualizador al solo cortar las frecuencias bajas, pero esto diferente igualmente es válido. 👍
useful vid thanks
after all i + harmonics to the stereo sides of k&b to side ,low shelf eq -16db to 62hz it creates body deepness to the track (chainfx dry,wet)
great stuff @Dash Glitch !
Thanks!
This becomes a huge problem in some tracks where i can never get the sidechain subtle yet effective enough, the worst is when its a LONG kick that noticeably warbles with the bass. But that makes me think, dissonant bass warbles can be super cool if used sparingly, maybe a video idea? Noise is super cool and gets tons of clashing freqs, but can be hard to mix loud
Which plugins would you recommend to a beginner? Watching a lot of your videos I see you use a lot of different ones.
I think a well positioned sub is crucial, otherwise you Will always be guessing that weight on the lower freqs .
you can also just set sync to 1/16 on the curve and dial in your envelope and have no phase I would say thats the most basic way. I will try this as I play faster music im interested to see
Cool thx for the tips
What is the vst you are using to monitor phase correlation between kick and bass ???
This is Oszillos Megascope
@@DashGlitch very cool thanks a just got it thanks !!!! A lot !!!!
I solve that problem with the help of a multiband compressor. This is not universal, but in a way it is because it is irrelevant from which synthesizer the bass synthesis is done. Dash, thanks for the tutorials, greetings from Serbia.
Well multiband has the same phase issues as traditional EQs etc, because of the split. Imagine being able to just create the balance directly from the ground up, that’s the idea here. You can also do it in Serum or vital etc
@@DashGlitch
You have a good idea and it works.
Would that preset be available sometime? Tried to figure out the steps making this and didn't really get the last part from 11mins in :) Love your videos as always buddy!
There’s some very similar split presets from my latest phase plant pack “orbital resonance”
'Just keep the bassline note the same all the way through bro' - 99% of psy-trance producers
instead of a square gate modulating the lowest frequency, could you use the envelope of the kick inverted to modulate the amplitude of the sine wave? this would "fade in" the bass as the kick decays, a bit like a side chain ducking but only for that lowest frequency.
You can but that kind of sidechain often sounds loose and muddy for Psytrance
A ducking noise gate would work too indeed
Hi Glitch.
It's interesting to me watching younger generations doing psytrance and other kind of electronic music in these days. Today, we have all kind of music production tools and softwares that are available for everyone and you can visually dive in and search all details about sound design...etc. Now, let's go back in 90's when there wasn't softwares at all, mostly hardware and it wasn't cheap. There was a lot of trance-psy-goa (whatever you call it..) projects and some of them were one step ahead of their time with every new releases! X Dream for example... It will be very interesting to see how they manipulate low end in their time in the 90's, without all available softwares that we have today?
I remember when I heard their songs at clubs or open air parties, their sound was different - especially kick and bass...even today! Any info how they made it so special?
They still had similar ideas with EQs and dynamics processing, multiband compression and transient shaping etc, but it was a lot more work for a similar concept, to shape the low end.
@@DashGlitch I don't know, probably, that's why I'm asking you since you're more into this then me. I think they had to mostly rely on their ears but the result is amazing from my point of view! Anyway, thank you and keep up with good work. Cheers!
But remember, the moment you use any Multiband compressor or eq thats not linear phase on those sounds, it will all go to s**t.
That’s why this technique is sick
looks like multiband sidechaining in the very low freqs - the fundamental of the bass to the kick... or i mistaken my self...
Yea that's the idea, although multiband will always have some kind of phase/timing interactions because of the filters
Thxs for the great video, r these analysers from bitwig or plugins ?
these are third party plugins although BW does have an oscilloscope, it's not as visual. This is oszillos megascope and Minimeters (the latter has an oscilloscope too, but it's spectro is super accurate)
@@DashGlitch thxs alot :)
Would you use this over the 'kick and sub technique' you showed us in a video you posted afew months ago Dash?
Both concepts can both apply ;)
Dash, if you have a moment could you please explain this using Serum or Vital. I understand the principle I think but don't get the difference between this method and say removing the fundamental in the saw in serum and using a separate layer for the sub that only hits on the last two 16ths of the 1/4 beat…..Are you saying that the sub on the second 16th of the 1/4 beat is handled by the kick sub and to cut your kick so its sub tail falls somewhere in the second 16th ? Apologies for being a little slow…..
Same just easier to get the final sound without reprocessing and importing over and over again, removing the fundamental and re-adding it as needed is the trick 👌
Ok, thanks for these meticulous deep dives man...
How do you get the plugin window to sit in the top right hand corner like that? The analyzer
Minimeters has a "pin window" function
I would love if all plugins had a pin feature. Unless they do and I don't know about it
What's the spectrogram visualizer you are using?
minimeters
I’ve see. A thousand videos about dealing with the low frequencies between the kicks and the subs, which I’m grateful for., but what dealing with interference between high frequencies in drums and synths and sound effect samples as it happens in psytrance costing us clarity. That’s what really baffles me
wavelengths in the high frequencies are so short that phase interactions are imperceivable. The plus side is that you can mono out the drums and widen the synths and they will not interact at all, or just apply as needed.
@@DashGlitch thanks dude!
how i m gonna do on pigment , diva , hive or serum?
Apply the same concept, if there’s a wave table editor then you most likely can do it easily
Cool technique, but not new, something similar was already described by Alice of Biskuwi fee weeks ago. She did it with Serum which is even better in for this purpose because its"remove fundamental" function in the wave editor
True it's not new, in fact the first video I did on removing fundamentals was in 2018 but yea it's a widely used technique, but this is the steps i've taken to perfect it for my tracks. Personally I prefer Phase Plant because of the discreet envelopes per layer, but yea you get the idea.
like serum to, but this square modulation trick is amazing, thank you Dash...works like a charme on a second oscillator on serum...but a had to flip the fundamental 180 degree to get a better result...to my taste obviously..
What is the spectrogram you used in this video? it seems light weight and perfect :) Edit: I found it in the comments Cheers! :)
Minimeters, it is indeed and has extended clarity for low-freq, most spectros blur out below like 250hz
i think a propper side chain to the kick achieves the same results no?
If the kicks too big, then you end up sidechaining half the beat's worth of bass, if you just sidechain the sub, you still get full punchy mids ;)
@@DashGlitch well then u need t shorten the kick so it wont overlap the bass !
Great video, Maybe a little too complicated :)
it's possible to remove the fundamental in Diva?
Yea but it’s a whole can of worms,you need to generate a sine that phase cancels the fundamental to zero and then add one for the sub, it’s complicated tho so rather just use an appropriate plugin, like vital or phase plant etx
@@DashGlitch for more simple synths like Diva you can modulate the phase cancelling sin osc either via velocity or modulators in Bitwig/Live.
Just program the modulation to duck the fundamental for overlapping bass notes, easy 😊
Can you apply this technique with zebralette 3?
Kind-of, there's an OSC FX called spectral decay which allows you to adjust the decay per partial using the guides, so you can carve out the exact sub decay etc you need. You can just apply it on a raw saw wave and dial in the Guide, it's pretty insane! I do plan to make a video on it, but it's still new tech so I'm fine-tuning the process
whats the difference between this method, and highpassing the low fundamental and automating it to do the same thing?, nvm i suppose the advantages are obvious, really interesting video.
Traditional EQs/ filters change the phase
@@DashGlitch even with a linear phase pro q 3?
@@DashGlitch or would the phase of the highpassed waveform be irrelevant because its missing the low frequencies and then when the bass is brought back theres no conflict, so theres never any conflict of kick and bass?
Linear phase cause pre/post ring which smears the transient, traditional would be better in this instance, but you’re need to adjust it for every different note in the track
@@DashGlitch thanks for the reply
Which scope are you using?
Program is called Minimeters
Oszillos mega scope and MiniMeters
Youre not normal 😂❤
Good! Normal = boring
Is this not just the same we have done serum with subs without gine throug a filter ?
Ofc this you have Way more control. I will try it next time u an in the studio
Well unless you remove the fundamental from the other oscs, you’re just doubling up, most likely causing more phase stuff
@@DashGlitch well ok - but i have been trying to see the point really - yeah i know you can get alot more overlap but it is really nessesary (i can only speak about psytrance) - ive been making psytrance since 1999 and releasing aswell and never used anything to prevent phasing - i made my lowend to fit with my ears haha but i guess i am just old school and probaly made shitty low ends :) i think this phase alignment circle jerk is a solution to a problem that never excisted (again i can only speak about psytrance and maybe abit of house.) my good friend grouch that is basicly a low end master dont use it. people tend to lean towards thinking that if they learn how to mix and master - then there music will sound and be great.... no not at all - good original and creative music makes good music - all the rest is just plain out boring. i think maybe some videos about thoes who produce and have success to some degree should make some more videos about the creative proces (not that i am creative or anything - i just throw shit at the wall untill something sticks.) - becauuse thats really what you build your foundation on - you aint gonna be successful for a good phase alligned lowend or a perfect mix (imho).and my basslines defently had phasing issues but not enough to most people to even know it - some of my more popular tracks where the ones i thought was bad most bad mixed ahha - and this is speaking with top tier dark progressive producers from a label you disscussed a few times (ithink). i really think its a shame that we lower our creative standart in this genre of psytrance because everyone watches videos. :) dont get this as something against your content - i watch it alot - you have some very good info and your talent is undeniable - and this way of doing it if very intresting . Cheers and keep up the good work mate.!
@@DashGlitch now i will go crank up phaseplant and try what you just did :)
What spectre analyzer is this?
This is Minimeters then the oscilloscope is Oszillosmegascope, but Minimeters has an osc scope too
why dont just sidechain the kick at the bassline by using linear phase eq, its more easier right, you can have more complexity adding another instruments that contain low frequencies that dosent ruin the kick phase.
Pre ringing
@@nathanbell6962 its only happen at very low frequencies and human's cant hear it.
Then you loose the whole first note out of three with these large kicks. Also with transient material linear phase can smear the transient. We most certainly do hear the change but subtle. That’s how phase is tho.
@@DashGlitch ya but this process just limiting my potential to add any instruments that conflicting low frequencies. That is why sound engineers still remain with old traditional way so the composers freely can become more creative. 20 years ago when i listen to GMS or astrix, their bassline chords changes made the whole track vibe, not the technical part for the average listeners.
Watch the video, I show how to make this technique for chord changes bro damn lol. It’s also more simple than all the hundreds of processing that other tutorials will tell you to use and you can just make a preset. Btw I learned split fundamental by studying am Astrix bass sound lol.
really:I lost it
im surre some people are going to gravitate towards this and do it this way for the rest of their life, to me its a little sacrilegious lol, but good to know though, who woulda thunk.
Tuned kick?
You meant tuned bass.
"Kicks do kicks, bass do bass, never tune your kick" - deadmau5
So the transient of kick should NEVER be pitched around. If it's in C keep it C don't go to E or G.
When I load up a kick, the very first thing I do: check the fundamental note.
So yeah everything else: the sub, the bass, the tail can be tuned, but a transient shall never be tuned than its original fundamental, means if you also pitch your transient you mess up the phase and the frequency response gets messed up.
I was referring to the tail of the kick though
@@DashGlitch yeah pitching tail and the rest makes sense. Didn't want to sound picky, but I just wanted to mention and clarify this especially for noobs.
I see many people be mislead by this and also I did it wrong many times in the past, when I was very unexperienced and thought a kick is one sound, that it's concluded and crafted of many different sounds was something I had to learn the hard way and partly figured that out by myself
All sounds a bit over complicated.... Isn't it much simpler to just scoop out a bit of your bass with EQ so the kick sits in that "hole"?
In that example, you'd just be doing it to the first note, thus resulting in a different phase/transient for each note, because EQs either rotate the phase or mess with the transient (traditional or linear phase). This is the "cleanest" way to shape frequencies.
Dude your using Bitwig. I dont understand why all these tutorials use so many 3rd plugins to make a point. In Bitwig the stock devices or the grid should have been used.
Wavetable editor?
@@DashGlitch No disrespect, I Love ur videos. But Im just learning Bitwig and have tried other daws. But almost all daw tutorials on youtube consist of primarily using 3rd party pligins which most of us dont have. I thinks it would be great for beginners to use as less 3rd party pluigins as possible. I thought the strength of Bitwig waws Bitwig adn the grid! Just saying. BUt keep up the great job.
true I agree, you will find my channel promoting probably the least 3rd party plugins on youtube, I focus mainly on free stuff except where there are things which the native tools just can't achieve ;)
@@DashGlitch Thx for the prompt replay. I really trying to like Bitwig. The grid and visuals makes it a great learning tool. I like it because it seems self contained and especially the Help menus. After playing with so many DAWs I have settled on Bitwig and MPC Beats for sampling. Instead of flopping from DAW to DAW I have decided for the next months to master Bitwig(no VSTs). KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK111
dude everybody talk about how to get kick and bass well, or how to that lead sinthesis and how to get loud muisc and music its not about that, in general people isnt hear anything about your mixing skills they just care about how the music drives them, and im serious, im making music since 2005 and not solo making music i had a career on it, played in big festivals sharing scenario with mayor artits like astrix when he released and played artcore, i realesed tracks in big labels or realeased tracks in big compilations like Sesto sento PLur official remixes, and the point ist to showoff about that, my point is that in those days i dindt know about phase issues in low frequencies, i didnt know anything about fm synthesis in those days fm sytnhesis didnt exist, in those days we dont have youtube to see full tutorials about sinhtesis, or mixing or arrengemnt, we did music by ear and selflearnig, test -error -test -error and we had mayor results. and now days people have a lot information and the music nowdays is lacking of musical sense, i just hear bassline and one tone barely using one chord and bad voicing, you fous in how to get that astrix or outsiders lead, but the magic isnt there, the magic is in the music theory behing the lead, how the notes resolvs in a theorycal ways thats sounds gipsy or Middle East vibe, youe feel me? every body is trying to sound like "x" artist but instead to understand the muscial theory behind the track just focus in how loud its sounds, and the maket now is full of tracks thats sounds the fkn same, and that in a mayor sense is ruinning the sceene , same music, same sounds, same structures, same everything,you cant even see the difference between one artist and another, they all sound the same. People need to learn about msuical cadences, scale degrees, chord modals, ostinatos, etc. im not telling you what to do, but the scene will be better if bedroom artits start to care about music in their music.
Did you miss the hundreds of other videos I make on all topics?
I appreciate these videos are freely available and may be relevant, but jeez.. they totally suck the fun out of making music!!! Look at what we endure for just a kick and bass. If you make good music, a good label will hear. Be true to you x
You do t have to understand the fundamentals, you can go on as you were, but you’re here to learn right? The only thing sucking the fun out is when you don’t do it, so go do it 👍
P.s labels don’t care for good music bro, it’s all about numbers and they will still steal everything you’re worth. That definitely sucks the fun, and I’m talking from experience. If that’s one lesson to take away here ;)
personally i enjoy mind numbing tutorials 😎