I think the fact that the camera is moving during the kiss at the end is very important. Pretty much the only other time in the movie where the camera moves is in the fantasy sequence. Coincidence? I think not!
No, it's not a coincidence. The first thing that surprised me in this scene, was that at first they didn't show us their faces while kissing, only after a few seconds. That's pretty weird🤔
So I’m thinking in the ending he does drink the drano and what played out after was his final thought because as he wrote in his notebook earlier in the movie he asks himself “ whats ones last thought once you pull the trigger” so him kissing Mary was his last thought that went down in his mind. Boom 💥
Perfect! Had to keep scrolling to find a comment that I too believed how it was meant to end. Drinks drano..last thought was her coming in and saving him with a kiss. END SCENE. Black out..your now dead.
Boniface Mwanza he was dying already. I think we have to assume one way or the other he killed himself. I don’t think she was really there, I think it was the last thing he saw before death
There's no way that they live happily ever after. That's impossible. First of all, he's already on the verge of death due to his cancer. He has bloody urine, bloody stools, and he's bleeding gums when he brushes his teeth. His gastrointestinal/pancreatic cancer is causing so much bleeding that he visibly looks anemic to others. He doesn't have long to live. And even if he does live, even before the ceremony, he was in trouble with the other pastor and was going to have to check into a rehab. His job was already compromised. Now he delayed the major 250th anniversary and probably doesn't have anything planned to speak because he had actually planned on blowing everyone up. Whether he shows up or not to the ceremony, he will ruin it and he will not be forgiven by the investors for doing so. He's fucked no matter what he chooses. Anyone who thinks there's any semblance of a "happily ever after" in this story has serious acceptance issues.
Yup. And the floating is the ascension to heaven, then it all goes terribly wrong in the mind of the pastor. Heaven and the garden have been compromised.
Mary's husband also works at Home Depot. Perhaps an allusion to carpentry? Also, when he sits down with the Reverand to discuss his fears of climate change, he specifically mentions that his child will be 33 years old in 2050- 33 being the same age Jesus was when he was crucified.
just watched thus movie. amazing. i love how the reverends character is how michael views the Earth: the reverend is constantly polluting his own body, hence all the closeups of alcohol and pepto bismol mixing etc. he doesnt respect his own "earth," his body, and in turn is dying because of it.
This movie blew my mind and made me so incredibly uncomfortable - a few times. First with Esther, then with Amanda Seyfried, then pissing blood, then with the Bomb Vest. Good god. It really stuck with me though and I think I loved it.
Just saw the movie last night, well this morning.... the writing of the journal, the words he used, his thoughts.. very much made me think. Just got to me... Loved it
Spoiler warning...on a spoiler video, haha. Anyway, I'm kinda of the mind he didn't drink the Drano. Even if the ending was a vision, I tend to think it's this vision that stopped him. In this way, the ending is an epiphany or moment of grace - real or imagined- it brought him to the realization that purpose can be found in people and our ability to connect with others. It would be a pity if he came to this realization only after drinking the Drano, and to some extent undermine the life affirming intention/meaning. That's just my take, though. Really enjoyed the film. Haunting both visually and psychologically. Really great analysis.
I agree with you. I keep hearing "Well Cedric's character tried to get in but he couldn't so Amanda couldn't either". Cedric tries one door and gives up. Amanda's character also enters from the other side of the room where there is a different entrance. While she may just be a vision to hm at the end I wouldn't call it a sure thing.
Let's see ..he had a girlfriend. A woman who loved him and cared about him apparently. He told her he despised her and to go away, and at that point in the film you think maybe he hates himself so much that he pushes love away.... But then no then he is "redeemed" by a sexual fantasy about a much younger blonde who he was supposed to be giving spiritual counsel to? I think less educated people imagine the end is deeper than it is. As someone who studied literature on a collegiate level, this ending was incomprehensible sexist trash that ruined a perfectly good film. Its cheap exploitation a worst. At best its the 50 millionth director since 1990 trying to baffle the public with the meaningless "random" card...Schrader even admits its not his ending...he wrote the character as a suicide. It was meant to be more like Taxi Driver. Someone else threw in this trash end. Read a book.
"As someone who studied literature on a collegiate level" Oh brother. Referencing your college education is fast-tracked way to sounding less intelligent than you probably are. He didn't have a girlfriend. He had an affair with a woman who is a constant reminder to him of his past failures. He despises her for that reason, not because she's a woman or because he wants to trade her in for a younger, more attractive model. And on that regard, Seyfried's character isn't a "fantasy" to him. She is a symbol that there are things in the world worth saving. Her pregnancy is also vital to that notion. He trades in his suicide vest for barbed wire and drain-o harkening back to Seyfried's husband's question earlier in the film about if he believes in martyrdom. Writing any of this off as sexist shows either A.) how little you actually paid attention in the movie or B.) the contempt you have for any direction a film can take that wasn't what you wanted. But hey best of luck and congrats on that "collegiate level" education.
What you said was actually right. I was really bugged me. I felt it would have been hell of a lot impactful if he drank the Drano and realised what he has done and the film would have just ended.
The more I think about this movie, the more I realize how perfect it is. The main thing I think about is the ending, and I think I found a reasonable solution. Adding onto your theory on the ending, I agree that the ending is in Reverend Toller’s mind. The reason I believe this is true is because Toller is shown pouring a glass with bleach (please correct me if I’m wrong), but before he can drink it, Mary shows up in his house. They then have an overextended kissing scene and the movie ends right there. However, I believe he actually does drink the bleach. This could explain why the movie ends with the awkward edit. Instead of ending when the song ends, it ends randomly. Kind of like death. You don’t know when you’re going to die, it’s not a day on your calendar. It’s just completely random.
Well, he dropped the glass when he saw her, meaning he didn't actually drink it. And if he did drink it, then tonguing her with a mouthful of Drano wouldn't be a good act before he died. I think the kiss was in his mind.
Unfortuntely I have to agree with you. I'm saying unfortuntely because until reading your comment I thought the movie ended the way it was shown. So you think Toller killed himself and showing up Mary was his imagination?
@@ketijaniashvili8438 It would make sense, the door was locked when Pastor Joel Jeffers tried to reach Toller a moment before. So how does Mary made it inside the house? It also look like there's no more barbed wire on him. I noticed that the last time he talk with Mary at her house before she leave to meet her sister, he tell a little story about his grand father..or father? about the promised land before dying....and that Michael probably saw it too.....Toller and Mary extended kissing is possibly his vision of the promised land before dying. Just a thought. (english is my second language, so sorry for the mistakes).
I wouldn't call it perfect. What bothered me about the film is that his character arc didn't feel entirely organic to me. Logically, I understand the trajectory of his descent that the filmmaker was going for, but emotionally I didn't particularly feel he was quite at the level of wanting to blow up a church. I'm like "Why does he feel the need to wear this bomb vest over this??" - I got it logically but didn't *feel emotionally* that he'd quite arrived there fully enough. Almost as if there were a couple of scenes missing to smooth out the character arc a bit more.
I don’t really know if this explanation is very accurate. To me it seems these characters are representations of other forces, with reverend toller representing despair and Mary representing hope. At the end despair and hope connect with life literally in between them and in that they are able to coexist
Oldman Winter ...or the original script had him committing suicide (it did) and Hollywood ruined a near perfect film with the grotesque delusion that a sick old man would attract a pretty blond lady.
As slow-paced as this story is, the ending is a very sudden confrontation and resolution. Toller slowly made up his mind throughout the movie to kill himself, motivated by grief, loss, and the emptiness of his faith (symbolized by the ever-emptying church he presides over). The wave of death & communal apathy have conquered him, even to modify his plans to avoid hurting Mary. But Mary shows up and confronts him, without argument, without words, without anything other than the realness of her existence. And instantaneously this is enough for Toller to fully abandon his plans. I once read that the answer to postmodern skepticism is to radically employ allegory to make the unreliable suddenly reliable.
@yorktown99, but you have missed all the important clues the director put there: - When Mary's husband kills himself, Toller talks about his thoughts of what goes through a man's mind at the moment of sudden suicide, and he thinks it is the person's happiest thought or dream. - The other pastor, who knows the church well, finds all access to Toller is locked. How did Mary get in ? (Answer: she did not). - The only two times in the movie that the camera moves are the fantasy sequence when Toller and Mary are floating, and at the end when he dreams of them kissing and probably living happily ever after; this is the director's scheme to make the viewer realize that the last scene is another fantasy in Toller's mind. - When Toller dreams that Mary has shown up to save him, he suddenly has no barbed wire under his vestments, and even Mary being pregnant she does not feel the barbed wire when she hugs and kisses him, further indication that this is a fantasy rather than reality. - The last fantasy scene suddenly goes to black and holds that for a long time; the moment of Toller's consciousness ending when he finally dies after drinking the Draino. As for the red herrings, Toller pours the cup of Draino is it is at the moment he is putting it to his lips that he starts having his last, forced happy thoughts. This is the moment when he starts to imagine Mary coming in. He has drunk the Draino and is living his last moment but dreams that Mary is there and that they can be happy. Part of that fantasy is that he drops the cup of Draino......that is KEY.......dropping the cup is not reality, it is part of his dying fantasy. I will admit that on my first viewing of this film, I missed the clues and thought that Mary came in and saved Toller. But on subsequent viewings, all these clues (and some others) came more to mind and I realized that the intended ending was that Toller did commit suicide.
(spoiler) The ending, I believe, is a superposition of two radically contradictory events. Based on people's responses to pre-release screenings, Schrader tweaked the details so that these two outcomes seem equally represented to the audience as a whole. So, the ending expresses conflicting religious/emotional stances: despair (suicide) and ecstasy (the saving embrace and kiss). This portrait of superposed reactive attitudes is a manifestation of Schrader's own ambivalence toward the Christian narrative, and toward the cosmos. First Reformed is a masterpiece in the vein of European religiously inflected cinema (Dreyer, Bresson, Tarkovsky, Bergman).
I just finished it. Absolutely loved it. The cinematography, minimal soundtrack, and Ethan Hawks contradictory character all create an acid trip experience that exposes church as business and the despair of our world's current state.
The 2 people he thought of and probably cared most about in his time of despair was his son, symbolically named Joseph and the girl who’s named Mary, of course, but I think the barbwire was his crown of thorns, the question of “ will god forgive us” has him going through with it, giving him a rebirth or resurrection of faith in taking “action” which is defined as KARMA
I just watched this film for the first time in the middle of the night. I can't get to sleep, so it's joints, writing out bits of scripts and trying to find something that is actually trying to say something. Jesus fucking christ this film tore me a new one. The slow pacing works wonderfully, I was so entranced by the colours and production design and how unapologetic this film is. Ethan Hawke was extraordinary and I can see glimmers of Amanda Seyfried's role in Mank here - never sure whether to trust her or what she is saying but she commands your attention.
Esp. based on the comment about white clothes = hope, black clothes = despair, notice how once he sees Mary entering the church he changes into white. Idk if it is a representation of the different emotions he is feeling or what, but the fact he poured the drano even after that tells me he did it. I 100% agree him dropping the glass was also him hitting the floor, and everything after was in his head as he was dying. Awesome movie
Best movie of 2018 so far for me. Ethan Hawke deserves the praise that he's getting. That ending still stuck with me for awhile after seeing the 2 weeks ago.
well, one of the best movie for me... i said it cause i watched many good movies in 18 just because i'm a boxxy software user and i have access to all movies ever made
Even if it was a metaphor, which this movie is not really at all - no Malick behind the camera - the mega church guy is like his boss. He doesn’t know him at all. The only person who would really know how to get inside from the backdoor is Mary. I see much more hope in the ending you guys. Try to see it as it is. It’s pretty straightforward as a movie too. Mary saves him and martyrdom SHOULD be out of trend really. If the ending wouldn’t be real we wouldn’t have seen him punishing himself instinctively. Imho. Great analysis tho
I have a question though. Was he planning on just publically killing himself with the best, or was he going to kill others as well? When I watched it I thought he was going to kill several people and I didn’t believe the character would do that. Anyone think that was the case?
Cole Jaeger I wanted it to be an ideal thing where he blew up that mega church with the prosperity gospel pastor and the polluting CEO inside. Of course to make it morally complex his ex lover the church lady and pregnant widow had to be there. But even if he only killed himself out of shame, it would still be better than that crappy male gaze cheap Hollywood old man sex fantasy ending. I went in expecting an updated Taxi Driver dammit.
Okay, it's like he took on Michael's persona or negativity. I don't know what brought this on but some might say that because of Ethan Hawke's character's son's death, it sent him to a mode of deeper despair. Former love of his, the choir director, tried to intervene but he is in too deep. In the end, he was still in the process of killing everyone. It was way too negative but I enjoyed it. The main character lost his faith and hope which are the first few things he truly believed in. He was first reformed after seeing that suicide vest. Is Amanda Sigfried's character to blame?
I think he was clearly expecting to either take other people out with him, or at least that people around him would get seriously hurt. In the video he watches of a suicide bomber it doesn't look like anyone else is killed, so he might have been expecting something similar, but it's still clear that people would be injured. In any case, I think that was obviously why he didn't want Mary to be there and couldn't go through with it when she turned up, because she was the only person he felt it was worth protecting, or to put it another way, protecting people like her was the only reason to go through with it, by his way of thinking.
I believe he planned to take out the jerk from the pancake House for sure and the rest of the Jack @§§e§ who were just there for the show of it and to look good who were greedy and looking forward to the Big Publicity that they wanted to reassure people saw them as Righteous Men & Would Keep Feeding Their Egos' and Wallets while they kept destroying the planet and being selfish
I believe in the end he had become the martyr the sacrificial lamb and as is stated in the lyrics to a song sung earlier in the film he has lay aside his garments that are stained with sin (the suicide vest) and become washed in the blood of the lamb (in this instance his own from the barbed wire) he then dawns a white robe one that is "spotless and white as snow" i.e. pure absolved of all sin, his soul has been cleansed and he has accepted the embrace of the mother Mary all then fades to black as he dies from the consumption of the drain cleaner something that's literal purpose is to cleanse and wash away the filth from within
This movie was so much better than I ever imagined. I went into it knowing nothing aside from it being an A24 movie. Was not disappointed at all but was a bit confused to the ending (which is how I ended up here xD).
The ending represented the ability to embody two deeply conflicting concepts at the same time. That is, embracing both the inherently joyous nature of being a living human being in the company of a Beloved and New Life; and the simultaneous agony of living with a deep, gut-level understanding of the ignominious impacts your existance is having on the Creation.
the quote "Will god forgive us for destroying his creation" when referring to the Earth, also plays into God's creation of man. And considering what we know is the true ending, this movie haunts me to another degree.
When you mentioned that Amanda Seyfried was able to walk in and Cedric wasn't, my thoughts changed. I also thought that his frustration with Amanda showing up, his screaming in frustration, eventually led him to come to the conclusion that it was God's will that she was there and that she and her baby were meant to be killed.
Ah late to the party! But I watched this a month ago and I have a totally wacky view on this ending which I’m not sure is stupid but here I go. So I don’t think he drinks the drank bc I think Mary convinces him not to. Earlier in the movie when Mary and Toller first meet, it’s initially to discuss abortion. Toller makes it clear that taking a life is wrong. I think he says that bc of his son but also bc the children r the future. Thru out the movie it seemed like Toller wasn’t thinking about his future but more his past. When Mary enters his life with a baby I think he begins to realize how important the youth is. Anyways, if we look at clues thru out the movie that imply that Toller is the earth and him drinking destroys, I assumed that Mary is humanity and her baby is the youth. I think the ending represents that the youth can still save this dying planet
Growing up, we were always taught separation of church and state, but even back then it never seemed so. Nowadays, there is zero separation. This movie was good, but very strange. Seemed to also no have the separation. Good acting/well written.
My mom and I went to see Book Club this weekend. We had gotten there an hour early so she wanted to find our seats in the theater and sit through the ending of whatever movie would happen to be playing. First Reformed just so happened to be the movie. We were both very very confused by the ending, so thank you for this interpretation
he's definitely dead. When they are kissing, the song its unsettlingly cut off before its natural end, and we suddenly cut to black. There is no other scene in the film that is shot like the kiss scene except maybe one: The fantasy scene when they lie on top of one another. All of a sudden, in the last scene, we're watching something out of a romantic comedy! It is so inconsistent with the rest of the film, it basically breaks directional form completely. It must be in his head. If they were going for romance and optimism, why suddenly cut off the music and cut to black? Why not let the song finish? Because he killed himself and the fantasy cuts off. Toller wonders what someone would think of before killing himself. He thinks that in order to have lived a full life, you must have maintained both your hope and your despair. I think that a scenario in which Toller kills himself stays most true to the themes of the film, as his last thought is one of hope and salvation. He never lost his faith, and he never lost his hope. They are both there, even in death. Idk. Just an idea.
Nice explanation. I This movie last night and enjoyed it. I think he actually did not go thru with it bc when he saw that Amanda Seyfrieds character was at the ceremony he already made up his mind then not to do it which is why he was going to drink the drain cleaner. He felt despair but when she showed up it stopped him from doing either. He had helped her through her grief (saved her so to speak) and now she had done the same for him.
Shawn Kelly no one has sex fantasies while in blind pain from being internally burned alive from Draino. Its not morphine. Its a terrible ending of gratuitous sexism in an otherwise wonderful film.
Shawn Kelly also she does not owe him helping or saving. This is typical American douchebag "nice guy" who isnt really nice style of thinking ...he's a man of God. His JOB is to counsel pregnant widows and respect their person hood. To imagine she "repays" him by making out with him is beyond sexist and vile. Whether you're a religious person or a feminist atheist, from any ethical angle your "she helped him because he helped her" (paying him with sex?) is so adolescent and idiotic you should feel embarrassed for even typing that.
I'm actually not embarrassed in the least Thalassa I simply shared my thoughts on the film you in turn decided to be a troll and revert to name calling. As with many films interpretations will vary and this film leaves the viewer with many questions which I happen to like ... apparently you don't.
High, ik this vid is old but I just saw the movie so here are some thoughts: Good video but are you sure Toller isn't actually based off of Thomas Merton the monk and not Tom Merton the prison guy? I think you may have confused the two. A few parallels: Thomas Merton is mentioned twice by Toller, both in praise of him, throughout the film Merton was a Catholic monk, Toller is an Protestant priest (both Christian clergy) Both suffered with illness, both mental and physical Both had trouble with sin (its implied Toller slept with Esther, and not to mention his relationship with Mary) while Merton lusted after a young nurse while in his 50s Both struggled with their faith
The whole film is about inner/outer conflict. The pastor role model vs. the grieving alcoholic, the stoic defender of hope vs. the fiery defender of Planet Earth, the enduring friend vs. the passionate lover. The ending plays out Toller's repressed passion for Mary because he knows it'll never happen, then he kills himself. Taxi Driver also ended with a dream sequence. Brilliant film.
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watched it last night, it really hit home. beautiful cinematography, every scene is like a still. and i love how it blends religion with environmental changes. very brilliant and well-crafted.
By the way, this movie has nothing to do with religion. Also, did anyone else notice Mary's husband, Michael, in that decrept tugboat in that "dream" sequence? It started positive and hopeful and then it became destruction. Or was that just my imagining?
Good review. I only have only issue with it. I feel you should have kept the movie footage in the original aspect ratio. You could've put the First Reformed graphics down the sides. It's just that the film is so beautiful, it is extremely distracting watching your review cut out 65 percent of the frame. It is a good review though. Keep up the awesome work.
Toller tried to kill those he considered responsible for the earth's sad decay but then when he found out that his one hope on this decayed earth would have to die too, he decided to end his own life and leave room for another soul just like Michael did. In his mind, he still did throw in his buck to save the world and that final kiss is somewhat his reward for doing so. He is being freed of all religious and earthly boundaries.
I too felt he did indeed commit suicide at the end, but also the ending also included a bit of the idea that "in dying we are born to eternal life" ( as it is phrased in the prayer of St. Francis, which is well known to many recovering alcoholics). It felt as if God did forgive Toller for his suicide. Whether God will forgive the other "destroyers of the earth" is up in the air.
Just watched it and i think its a good film with some good food for thought moments. One thing i would debate is your idea that the female not being able to get into the room at the end. You see the female in the church way more than times then you see Cedric. He is only there during the big event. Also, it's even more likely she had access via key or something due to their implied relationship after the floating scene but her appearance is very much portrayed almost as a miracle. To tell you the truth i think he hurt himself to pump himself up to become a martyr. Drano is actually a long and painful death if ingested also. I think he did kill himself and his last thoughts were about the love he could have had. I didn't like it, but that's my take away.
Hollywood has, yet again, taken it upon itself to be the purveyor of purity...and in typical Hollywood fashion, can't do so in a straight-forward manner. They see themselves as all knowing, while the rest of us must be tricked into compliance through subtext and "deeper" meanings. They laughably have embarked on a movie-making model that involves ALL subtext, and absolutely no story. This movie is a perfect example of this. There is no story in this movie. It's just a series of events that tries not to get in the way of "The Message". The meaning behind this movie is, "How can we get those dumb Christians to get on board with this climate thing?". That's pretty much it. But here's the funny thing, the movie isn't made for the people it's addressing. It's made for people who would break both of their arms patting themselves on the back. People who find endless entertainment in how clever they are in picking up on the nuance of the "subtext". They watch movies like this, the same way advertising agencies watch their commercials before approval. This is their target audience. The funeral scene was hilarious and awkward. I thought it was a joke at first. Was that supposed to be a serious scene? The light fixture that looks like an ever-watching eye, the folded American flag cleverly lit in the background of the closet, etc, etc...yuk. Why not just smack people in the face with those objects as they're entering the theater? lol Ethan Hawke's performance is fantastic. He is one hell of an actor. This movie though...ugh...waste of time.
Being it A24, I was thinking he was gonna detonate the vest right after Amanda walks in the church, and that sense of despair would've been on both their faces roll credits. I was kinda hoping for that tbh
I have so many thoughts of this movie. Its definitely a great movie and one of the best movies of 2018. It's very disturbing very. I personally believed he drank the draino and he visualized the kissing scene. This movie was something else man I enjoyed it from start to finish.
I also found out this movie to not be for radical pollution activists I saw it as if anything against them. These people care so much about God's creation and are so one dimensional In thought they forget they are a creation of god and disregard there own health and their fellow human beings. This is shown by Ethan hawkes character with him not caring for his health drinking and pissing blood, holding off appointments to get a check up.
Is that what draino looks like? I thought it was oil. Your explanation works for me...I've been wondering wtf about thee ending for days. I kinda thought 'didn't he have barbed wire all over him' - you know, the same wire that slayed a cute little bunny in a cemetery. HEY KIDS! WELCOME TO HAPPY THOUGHTS THE MOVIE :)
Excellent explanation Let Me Explain, and Owen Reese, excellent interpretation and to add to that, he dons the thrones of Christ in the end and dies for the sins of the world... in my thinking.
Everything is so black and white for film goers. Which ending? Which ending? What is the CORRECT interpretation? Schrader gave us what one would call a Buñuel ending; open to many interpretations that can be equally valid, or as Schrader put in his own screenplay, holding two contradictory thoughts at once. So it's possible that Hawke's character is spiritually rescued by Mary literally in the movie's real life and is really kissing her; or he did commit suicide and this is an ecstatic vision before or during death; OR it is an actual miracle - God sending Mary to intervene; OR even the possibility that Ethan Hawke could do the bombing at a later date; OR Hawke did commit suicide and the last scene is an ascension to heaven - a reward for a martyrdom that is revealed through the testimony of his journal and barbed wire body. It's wondrous that almost all these possibilities have equal weight. This was one of my favorite movies of 2018.
i can respect the artform/filmaking. I'm really into films, and especially i love taxi driver and i know this is not taxi driver, and taxi driver is irrelevant but fuck idk, i knew exactly what i was getting into. A slow burn, depressing, haunting movie as a character study, and even the politics i agreed with, but overall as the films engagement... Just really, didnt catch me for more than 7 minutes on and off. it's like, he was so close to making a great film, but overall IMO just kind of fell flat. I REALLY wanted to like this movie, as well as seeing all the praise, and i usually dont agree with audience scores, especially anything that a24 produces, but First Reformed... just couldnt really say that i enjoyed it as much as i wanted to. I'm sad to say i'd give this very underwhelming movie, a 5.5/10. Respect it completley and i liked the direction at the end, but then they had 2 fake outs in a row, i was like yes blow the church... but if he did, it kind of contradict's his character... i know hawke was conflicted in this film so it makes sense for him to take the vest as soon as he see's amanda. then he applied barbedwire everywhere which i got exicted about, then when amanda walked in when he was about to drink that fucking drain cleaner was sick, i was like " DRINK IT " then he fucking drops that, and him and amanda start making out and then it ends. just so, anti climatic, as the movie built this whole scene up, and i almost felt nothing but regretted watching this movie, not beacuse of it's weighty themes, but how it was concluded. anti climatic, disapointed to conclude. just thought this movie would have more in the end.
i’m glad i gave this film 4 stars even though i HATED that ending. now i just look dumb knowing the part where you said that maybe meeting Mary was “just in his head”. love that and i would consider it my theory from now on.
What is the final word that Amanda says when she shows up in the room? Sounds like "Earnst"...?? like maybe Tiller's first name? I looked on IMDB and he's just listed as Toller. No first name. So....what does she say? - Never mind.....I looked up the script: The Drano drops from his hand, spills across the floor. MARY: Ernst? He stands. ......so yeah....I guess that's his first name.
My theory is maybe the ending scene could be something playing out in his mind because he said shortly beforehand all that stuff about what goes through a mans mind before he dies. But ultimately the ending was very unsatisfying. Here's a movie that seems to have some pretty strong, yet subtle views on religion and it seemed to be taking risks. The film ultimately feels like it's telling the tale of a man who slowly martyrs his own humanity after seeing the corruption overtake what he once held such faith for. I was fully ready to see him go in there and blow that church up and just have it end right there, but ultimately the kissing scene just kinda feels like a safe ending to risky movie.
He did die. Notice in the church she has on blue but when she is seen in his house the colors are different. I hate when movie makers don't explain themselves at least by the end of the film. Ugggh!
I thought your comment was as brilliant as a Sherlock Holmes observation, but then,... I had to go back and watch the last minutes of the film again. Sorry, she's wearing the same outfit in the church and when she appears in the priest's house.
I get this movie to some level. Until you had said that the character of Michael committed suicide to make way for his offspring, this is what this movie is about! It's about the death of old (and decaying) to make way for the new life BUT doing it as an "up yours (old) institution"? it's the total inverse of the current. The old, represented by Ethan Hawke's character, is overcome by extremism (as mentioned in this movie). This is not how Generation X works. If there's one thing this movie is about, it can be about how we blame the generation that precedes the one before. This movie could be about how the old is supposed to sacrifice its young like how Cronos eats its young. And then it became the reverse in this movie. It really paints a very bleak and negative outlook on the future. I give this movie an "A" for cinematic plot.
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I just watched this movie, I feel like I missed something, desperately searching the internet to find what is so amazing about this movie but can't. Acting was good, some message about struggling faith and man destroying earth references to the Bible and art but nothing mind blowing please enlighten me cause I don't see what is so special about this movie.
I believe he drank the fluid and kissing Mary was his final thoughts as he was dying. But he didn't go through with the suicide vest. You see how long it takes for him to put on the vest and then the outer garments and then take off the vest. I mean if he was gonna blow himself up, why drink fluid drain? He would have to be in at least some good condition to perform the suicide bombing. Why jeopardize that by poisoning yourself. He then wraps the barb wire around himself to chastise and punish himself for attempting to harm other human beings after the oath he took as a reverend, and then puts on a white garment out of some symbolic gesture to make himself new again.
I appreciate any Christian film that challenges spiritual emotion, no matter what your devotions. Rather than be the typical massage therapy other religious movies deliver.
I see Ethan Hawk's character as a man severly depressed over the guilt of his son's death who is repressed sexually due to blaming himself for the death of his son and denying himself any pleasure in life as a result of this. He lives in a schizophrenic world inside his head where he has a fantasy girlfriend who becomes Amanda's character. His sense of purpose helping others as a priest was never fulfilled until he saw the need to care about the environment and take on the suicided husband's cause and walk in this guy's shoes, even having her as his fantasy girlfriend. The only way this movie makes any sense to me is if we believe his interactions with Amanda's character are shown to us as seen by him in his schizophrenic head. Otherwise none of the scenes with them together make any sense, like her home's austere starkness, her lack of people in her house after his suicide, her asking him to box her husband's stuff up with no friends around helping her, etc etc. Following the plot's ending, one can assume, since he is dying, he feels the need to kill himself plus become a sacrificial lamb to destroy the corrupt church's reputation. Even though the ending is up for interpretation, the only thing that makes sense to me is that he sees her in his mind and embraces her as he is dying. But why did he not do more to make sure his sacrifice brings awareness of the church's corruption with the environmentally toxic company after his death? Like writing a letter to a newspaper about why he killed himself? That to me would have made sense, otherwise wouldn't his suicide be in vain? Not to mention, why didn't her husband make a similar suicide statement? So that part of the plot felt very weak. And his schizophrenia was too cloaked...I would have shown reality in juxtaposition with his fantasy, for example, a visit to her home after the funeral showing her with family and friends and showing her home not austere and dreary, to show how it's only that way when he's alone with her in his mind, or after floating with her body, showing how it never really happened, and her standing there asking if he's ok. Also his rage at the end needed a close up of his face...that lack of a close up probably cost him an Oscar, Mr Director. General things that made no sense were how he didn't quote the Bible very much and didn't talk about God with much reverance to others, and that he didn't pray. Sorry but none of that was very believable. A great movie to me is more than just great screen shots, great symbolism, or great acting, the story and behavior of the characters have to be based on realistic human behavior...in this case realistic behavior of a sick, depressed schizophrenic, which, for the crucial parts of the plot, it was not.
Can anybody explain the whole wire thing? That was probably the creepiest scene for me. Why did he have that thing? Why did want to commit suicide for that matter?
Look, I am a liberal but I don't think a filmmaker should be the most strident preacher in a story about a priest. Look, I get the message. I still think it was a great film, but what fascinated me the most was its unflinching portrait of the blackest heart of human depression. Yet, in the grip of this demon, Rev. Toller is able to give wise counsel: is it worse to bring a child into a horrible dying civilization, or to kill that child before she has a chance even to see it?
This movie could have been the next shawshank redemption. Half way in the movie i was thinking i should recommend this movie to my friend. My disappointment was world shattering in the second half. 😪
Ethan Hawke is one of the most underrated actor of the century.
Yes he is. Thats sad.
I agree. I can watch and listen to him all day.
Probably the most underrated
The only reason I saw First Reformed was him.....any other actor & I wouldn't have bothered.
He is one of the best working actors nowadays
I think the fact that the camera is moving during the kiss at the end is very important. Pretty much the only other time in the movie where the camera moves is in the fantasy sequence. Coincidence? I think not!
Also the illumination is pretty clear. She doesn't feel the spines around his body? It's totally happening inside his mind
No, it's not a coincidence. The first thing that surprised me in this scene, was that at first they didn't show us their faces while kissing, only after a few seconds. That's pretty weird🤔
What do you think this means?
So I’m thinking in the ending he does drink the drano and what played out after was his final thought because as he wrote in his notebook earlier in the movie he asks himself “ whats ones last thought once you pull the trigger” so him kissing Mary was his last thought that went down in his mind. Boom 💥
Perfect! Had to keep scrolling to find a comment that I too believed how it was meant to end. Drinks drano..last thought was her coming in and saving him with a kiss. END SCENE. Black out..your now dead.
He didnt drink the stuff in the glass he droped it when she came. I think they lived happily ever after....
Boniface Mwanza he was dying already. I think we have to assume one way or the other he killed himself. I don’t think she was really there, I think it was the last thing he saw before death
Wowwww..... Yesssss!!!! I just finished & knew it was his fantasy but didn't know why I did👏👏👏
There's no way that they live happily ever after. That's impossible. First of all, he's already on the verge of death due to his cancer. He has bloody urine, bloody stools, and he's bleeding gums when he brushes his teeth. His gastrointestinal/pancreatic cancer is causing so much bleeding that he visibly looks anemic to others. He doesn't have long to live. And even if he does live, even before the ceremony, he was in trouble with the other pastor and was going to have to check into a rehab. His job was already compromised. Now he delayed the major 250th anniversary and probably doesn't have anything planned to speak because he had actually planned on blowing everyone up. Whether he shows up or not to the ceremony, he will ruin it and he will not be forgiven by the investors for doing so. He's fucked no matter what he chooses. Anyone who thinks there's any semblance of a "happily ever after" in this story has serious acceptance issues.
Notice: her name is Mary, his dead son’s name is Joseph, and Mary is pregnant...
Yup. And the floating is the ascension to heaven, then it all goes terribly wrong in the mind of the pastor. Heaven and the garden have been compromised.
choir*
Jose Herrera manzana * continue
Mary's husband also works at Home Depot. Perhaps an allusion to carpentry? Also, when he sits down with the Reverand to discuss his fears of climate change, he specifically mentions that his child will be 33 years old in 2050- 33 being the same age Jesus was when he was crucified.
He also says he feels like Jacob wrestling with the angel. Joseph was one of Jacob's sons.
just watched thus movie. amazing. i love how the reverends character is how michael views the Earth: the reverend is constantly polluting his own body, hence all the closeups of alcohol and pepto bismol mixing etc. he doesnt respect his own "earth," his body, and in turn is dying because of it.
This movie blew my mind and made me so incredibly uncomfortable - a few times. First with Esther, then with Amanda Seyfried, then pissing blood, then with the Bomb Vest. Good god. It really stuck with me though and I think I loved it.
Just saw the movie last night, well this morning.... the writing of the journal, the words he used, his thoughts.. very much made me think. Just got to me... Loved it
i adore this kind of movies! i found a special category in moods when i started to use boxxy software. love them very much!
I felt the same except i didnt love it!
Spoiler warning...on a spoiler video, haha. Anyway, I'm kinda of the mind he didn't drink the Drano. Even if the ending was a vision, I tend to think it's this vision that stopped him. In this way, the ending is an epiphany or moment of grace - real or imagined- it brought him to the realization that purpose can be found in people and our ability to connect with others. It would be a pity if he came to this realization only after drinking the Drano, and to some extent undermine the life affirming intention/meaning. That's just my take, though. Really enjoyed the film. Haunting both visually and psychologically. Really great analysis.
I agree with you. I keep hearing "Well Cedric's character tried to get in but he couldn't so Amanda couldn't either". Cedric tries one door and gives up. Amanda's character also enters from the other side of the room where there is a different entrance. While she may just be a vision to hm at the end I wouldn't call it a sure thing.
Let's see ..he had a girlfriend. A woman who loved him and cared about him apparently. He told her he despised her and to go away, and at that point in the film you think maybe he hates himself so much that he pushes love away.... But then no then he is "redeemed" by a sexual fantasy about a much younger blonde who he was supposed to be giving spiritual counsel to? I think less educated people imagine the end is deeper than it is. As someone who studied literature on a collegiate level, this ending was incomprehensible sexist trash that ruined a perfectly good film. Its cheap exploitation a worst. At best its the 50 millionth director since 1990 trying to baffle the public with the meaningless "random" card...Schrader even admits its not his ending...he wrote the character as a suicide. It was meant to be more like Taxi Driver. Someone else threw in this trash end. Read a book.
"As someone who studied literature on a collegiate level" Oh brother. Referencing your college education is fast-tracked way to sounding less intelligent than you probably are. He didn't have a girlfriend. He had an affair with a woman who is a constant reminder to him of his past failures. He despises her for that reason, not because she's a woman or because he wants to trade her in for a younger, more attractive model. And on that regard, Seyfried's character isn't a "fantasy" to him. She is a symbol that there are things in the world worth saving. Her pregnancy is also vital to that notion. He trades in his suicide vest for barbed wire and drain-o harkening back to Seyfried's husband's question earlier in the film about if he believes in martyrdom. Writing any of this off as sexist shows either A.) how little you actually paid attention in the movie or B.) the contempt you have for any direction a film can take that wasn't what you wanted. But hey best of luck and congrats on that "collegiate level" education.
What you said was actually right. I was really bugged me. I felt it would have been hell of a lot impactful if he drank the Drano and realised what he has done and the film would have just ended.
that's what i was thinking (though, i was thinking that she was really there, and she saved him from himself...idk...interesting thoughts though)
The more I think about this movie, the more I realize how perfect it is. The main thing I think about is the ending, and I think I found a reasonable solution. Adding onto your theory on the ending, I agree that the ending is in Reverend Toller’s mind. The reason I believe this is true is because Toller is shown pouring a glass with bleach (please correct me if I’m wrong), but before he can drink it, Mary shows up in his house. They then have an overextended kissing scene and the movie ends right there. However, I believe he actually does drink the bleach. This could explain why the movie ends with the awkward edit. Instead of ending when the song ends, it ends randomly. Kind of like death. You don’t know when you’re going to die, it’s not a day on your calendar. It’s just completely random.
Well, he dropped the glass when he saw her, meaning he didn't actually drink it. And if he did drink it, then tonguing her with a mouthful of Drano wouldn't be a good act before he died. I think the kiss was in his mind.
Unfortuntely I have to agree with you. I'm saying unfortuntely because until reading your comment I thought the movie ended the way it was shown. So you think Toller killed himself and showing up Mary was his imagination?
@@ketijaniashvili8438 It would make sense, the door was locked when Pastor Joel Jeffers tried to reach Toller a moment before. So how does Mary made it inside the house? It also look like there's no more barbed wire on him. I noticed that the last time he talk with Mary at her house before she leave to meet her sister, he tell a little story about his grand father..or father? about the promised land before dying....and that Michael probably saw it too.....Toller and Mary extended kissing is possibly his vision of the promised land before dying. Just a thought. (english is my second language, so sorry for the mistakes).
@@Extasei Oh that's okay, I got it. Thanks for the reply! English is my second language as well, I teach it.
I wouldn't call it perfect. What bothered me about the film is that his character arc didn't feel entirely organic to me. Logically, I understand the trajectory of his descent that the filmmaker was going for, but emotionally I didn't particularly feel he was quite at the level of wanting to blow up a church. I'm like "Why does he feel the need to wear this bomb vest over this??" - I got it logically but didn't *feel emotionally* that he'd quite arrived there fully enough. Almost as if there were a couple of scenes missing to smooth out the character arc a bit more.
"This movie is pretty much Taxi Driver......if Travis ran a church." * adds movie to watchlist*
But why are you watching an ending explained if you haven’t seen it yet?
I don’t really know if this explanation is very accurate. To me it seems these characters are representations of other forces, with reverend toller representing despair and Mary representing hope. At the end despair and hope connect with life literally in between them and in that they are able to coexist
Oldman Winter ...or the original script had him committing suicide (it did) and Hollywood ruined a near perfect film with the grotesque delusion that a sick old man would attract a pretty blond lady.
And he does say early in the movie that hope and despair go hand in hand
Oldman Winter I love your theory!!!
46 is old?
Oldman Winter... I like that theory, and it's that very perspective why he didn't go through with it.
As slow-paced as this story is, the ending is a very sudden confrontation and resolution. Toller slowly made up his mind throughout the movie to kill himself, motivated by grief, loss, and the emptiness of his faith (symbolized by the ever-emptying church he presides over). The wave of death & communal apathy have conquered him, even to modify his plans to avoid hurting Mary. But Mary shows up and confronts him, without argument, without words, without anything other than the realness of her existence. And instantaneously this is enough for Toller to fully abandon his plans. I once read that the answer to postmodern skepticism is to radically employ allegory to make the unreliable suddenly reliable.
@yorktown99, but you have missed all the important clues the director put there:
- When Mary's husband kills himself, Toller talks about his thoughts of what goes through a man's mind at the moment of sudden suicide, and he thinks it is the person's happiest thought or dream.
- The other pastor, who knows the church well, finds all access to Toller is locked. How did Mary get in ? (Answer: she did not).
- The only two times in the movie that the camera moves are the fantasy sequence when Toller and Mary are floating, and at the end when he dreams of them kissing and probably living happily ever after; this is the director's scheme to make the viewer realize that the last scene is another fantasy in Toller's mind.
- When Toller dreams that Mary has shown up to save him, he suddenly has no barbed wire under his vestments, and even Mary being pregnant she does not feel the barbed wire when she hugs and kisses him, further indication that this is a fantasy rather than reality.
- The last fantasy scene suddenly goes to black and holds that for a long time; the moment of Toller's consciousness ending when he finally dies after drinking the Draino.
As for the red herrings, Toller pours the cup of Draino is it is at the moment he is putting it to his lips that he starts having his last, forced happy thoughts. This is the moment when he starts to imagine Mary coming in. He has drunk the Draino and is living his last moment but dreams that Mary is there and that they can be happy. Part of that fantasy is that he drops the cup of Draino......that is KEY.......dropping the cup is not reality, it is part of his dying fantasy.
I will admit that on my first viewing of this film, I missed the clues and thought that Mary came in and saved Toller. But on subsequent viewings, all these clues (and some others) came more to mind and I realized that the intended ending was that Toller did commit suicide.
The entire last scene was fantasy. He either killed himself or followed through with his violent defense of Mother Earth
(spoiler) The ending, I believe, is a superposition of two radically contradictory events. Based on people's responses to pre-release screenings, Schrader tweaked the details so that these two outcomes seem equally represented to the audience as a whole. So, the ending expresses conflicting religious/emotional stances: despair (suicide) and ecstasy (the saving embrace and kiss). This portrait of superposed reactive attitudes is a manifestation of Schrader's own ambivalence toward the Christian narrative, and toward the cosmos. First Reformed is a masterpiece in the vein of European religiously inflected cinema (Dreyer, Bresson, Tarkovsky, Bergman).
And he meant it to have an ambiguous ending, to the point that he himself stated he didn't know how it ended.
I just finished it. Absolutely loved it. The cinematography, minimal soundtrack, and Ethan Hawks contradictory character all create an acid trip experience that exposes church as business and the despair of our world's current state.
The 2 people he thought of and probably cared most about in his time of despair was his son, symbolically named Joseph and the girl who’s named Mary, of course, but I think the barbwire was his crown of thorns, the question of “ will god forgive us” has him going through with it, giving him a rebirth or resurrection of faith in taking “action” which is defined as KARMA
I just watched this film for the first time in the middle of the night. I can't get to sleep, so it's joints, writing out bits of scripts and trying to find something that is actually trying to say something.
Jesus fucking christ this film tore me a new one. The slow pacing works wonderfully, I was so entranced by the colours and production design and how unapologetic this film is. Ethan Hawke was extraordinary and I can see glimmers of Amanda Seyfried's role in Mank here - never sure whether to trust her or what she is saying but she commands your attention.
Esp. based on the comment about white clothes = hope, black clothes = despair, notice how once he sees Mary entering the church he changes into white. Idk if it is a representation of the different emotions he is feeling or what, but the fact he poured the drano even after that tells me he did it. I 100% agree him dropping the glass was also him hitting the floor, and everything after was in his head as he was dying. Awesome movie
Best movie of 2018 so far for me. Ethan Hawke deserves the praise that he's getting. That ending still stuck with me for awhile after seeing the 2 weeks ago.
well, one of the best movie for me... i said it cause i watched many good movies in 18 just because i'm a boxxy software user and i have access to all movies ever made
Even if it was a metaphor, which this movie is not really at all - no Malick behind the camera - the mega church guy is like his boss. He doesn’t know him at all. The only person who would really know how to get inside from the backdoor is Mary. I see much more hope in the ending you guys. Try to see it as it is. It’s pretty straightforward as a movie too. Mary saves him and martyrdom SHOULD be out of trend really. If the ending wouldn’t be real we wouldn’t have seen him punishing himself instinctively. Imho. Great analysis tho
This was one of the greatest performances ever comitted to screen. Insane that Ethan Hawke does not get the recognition he deserves.
I have a question though. Was he planning on just publically killing himself with the best, or was he going to kill others as well? When I watched it I thought he was going to kill several people and I didn’t believe the character would do that. Anyone think that was the case?
Cole Jaeger I wanted it to be an ideal thing where he blew up that mega church with the prosperity gospel pastor and the polluting CEO inside. Of course to make it morally complex his ex lover the church lady and pregnant widow had to be there. But even if he only killed himself out of shame, it would still be better than that crappy male gaze cheap Hollywood old man sex fantasy ending. I went in expecting an updated Taxi Driver dammit.
Okay, it's like he took on Michael's persona or negativity. I don't know what brought this on but some might say that because of Ethan Hawke's character's son's death, it sent him to a mode of deeper despair. Former love of his, the choir director, tried to intervene but he is in too deep. In the end, he was still in the process of killing everyone. It was way too negative but I enjoyed it. The main character lost his faith and hope which are the first few things he truly believed in. He was first reformed after seeing that suicide vest. Is Amanda Sigfried's character to blame?
I think he was clearly expecting to either take other people out with him, or at least that people around him would get seriously hurt. In the video he watches of a suicide bomber it doesn't look like anyone else is killed, so he might have been expecting something similar, but it's still clear that people would be injured. In any case, I think that was obviously why he didn't want Mary to be there and couldn't go through with it when she turned up, because she was the only person he felt it was worth protecting, or to put it another way, protecting people like her was the only reason to go through with it, by his way of thinking.
I believe he planned to take out the jerk from the pancake House for sure and the rest of the Jack @§§e§ who were just there for the show of it and to look good who were greedy and looking forward to the Big Publicity that they wanted to reassure people saw them as Righteous Men & Would Keep Feeding Their Egos' and Wallets while they kept destroying the planet and being selfish
He wanted to destroy destroyers of the world.
I believe in the end he had become the martyr the sacrificial lamb and as is stated in the lyrics to a song sung earlier in the film he has lay aside his garments that are stained with sin (the suicide vest) and become washed in the blood of the lamb (in this instance his own from the barbed wire) he then dawns a white robe one that is "spotless and white as snow" i.e. pure absolved of all sin, his soul has been cleansed and he has accepted the embrace of the mother Mary all then fades to black as he dies from the consumption of the drain cleaner something that's literal purpose is to cleanse and wash away the filth from within
This movie was so much better than I ever imagined. I went into it knowing nothing aside from it being an A24 movie. Was not disappointed at all but was a bit confused to the ending (which is how I ended up here xD).
The ending represented the ability to embody two deeply conflicting concepts at the same time. That is, embracing both the inherently joyous nature of being a living human being in the company of a Beloved and New Life; and the simultaneous agony of living with a deep, gut-level understanding of the ignominious impacts your existance is having on the Creation.
the quote "Will god forgive us for destroying his creation" when referring to the Earth, also plays into God's creation of man. And considering what we know is the true ending, this movie haunts me to another degree.
I’m so happy you noticed the lighting and wardrobe. It’s amazing
When you mentioned that Amanda Seyfried was able to walk in and Cedric wasn't, my thoughts changed. I also thought that his frustration with Amanda showing up, his screaming in frustration, eventually led him to come to the conclusion that it was God's will that she was there and that she and her baby were meant to be killed.
Ah late to the party! But I watched this a month ago and I have a totally wacky view on this ending which I’m not sure is stupid but here I go. So I don’t think he drinks the drank bc I think Mary convinces him not to. Earlier in the movie when Mary and Toller first meet, it’s initially to discuss abortion. Toller makes it clear that taking a life is wrong. I think he says that bc of his son but also bc the children r the future. Thru out the movie it seemed like Toller wasn’t thinking about his future but more his past. When Mary enters his life with a baby I think he begins to realize how important the youth is. Anyways, if we look at clues thru out the movie that imply that Toller is the earth and him drinking destroys, I assumed that Mary is humanity and her baby is the youth. I think the ending represents that the youth can still save this dying planet
I think he really killed himself because he was already dying, very different from an unborn baby who is pure representation of life.
The planet is not dying hommie...
Growing up, we were always taught separation of church and state, but even back then it never seemed so. Nowadays, there is zero separation. This movie was good, but very strange. Seemed to also no have the separation. Good acting/well written.
Everyone recycle or else someone will recycle u.....ur life
I recycle on your face. Plop!
That's my church that they filmed in!!!
Wow!! Is it that old?
My mom and I went to see Book Club this weekend. We had gotten there an hour early so she wanted to find our seats in the theater and sit through the ending of whatever movie would happen to be playing. First Reformed just so happened to be the movie. We were both very very confused by the ending, so thank you for this interpretation
he's definitely dead. When they are kissing, the song its unsettlingly cut off before its natural end, and we suddenly cut to black. There is no other scene in the film that is shot like the kiss scene except maybe one: The fantasy scene when they lie on top of one another. All of a sudden, in the last scene, we're watching something out of a romantic comedy! It is so inconsistent with the rest of the film, it basically breaks directional form completely. It must be in his head. If they were going for romance and optimism, why suddenly cut off the music and cut to black? Why not let the song finish? Because he killed himself and the fantasy cuts off. Toller wonders what someone would think of before killing himself. He thinks that in order to have lived a full life, you must have maintained both your hope and your despair. I think that a scenario in which Toller kills himself stays most true to the themes of the film, as his last thought is one of hope and salvation. He never lost his faith, and he never lost his hope. They are both there, even in death. Idk. Just an idea.
References in the film are to Thomas Merton the Catholic Monk not Tom Murton the prison reformer.
Probably the Reformed theologian Thomas Manton. There is a book by Manton seen in the film.
Probably the Reformed theologian Thomas Manton. A book by Manton is seen in the film.
@@TheologiaEvangelica bro they literally mention Thomas Merton the Catholic monk twice in the movie
Ethan Hawke is highly underrated
I thought I watched all the best movies of 2018 already. But then I remembered this title and watched it last night. Holy shit, it’s perfection.
Nice explanation. I This movie last night and enjoyed it. I think he actually did not go thru with it bc when he saw that Amanda Seyfrieds character was at the ceremony he already made up his mind then not to do it which is why he was going to drink the drain cleaner. He felt despair but when she showed up it stopped him from doing either. He had helped her through her grief (saved her so to speak) and now she had done the same for him.
Shawn Kelly no one has sex fantasies while in blind pain from being internally burned alive from Draino. Its not morphine. Its a terrible ending of gratuitous sexism in an otherwise wonderful film.
Shawn Kelly also she does not owe him helping or saving. This is typical American douchebag "nice guy" who isnt really nice style of thinking ...he's a man of God. His JOB is to counsel pregnant widows and respect their person hood. To imagine she "repays" him by making out with him is beyond sexist and vile. Whether you're a religious person or a feminist atheist, from any ethical angle your "she helped him because he helped her" (paying him with sex?) is so adolescent and idiotic you should feel embarrassed for even typing that.
I'm actually not embarrassed in the least Thalassa I simply shared my thoughts on the film you in turn decided to be a troll and revert to name calling. As with many films interpretations will vary and this film leaves the viewer with many questions which I happen to like ... apparently you don't.
That ending definitly leaves a lot up to interpretation. I guess it is supposed to promote discussion.
High, ik this vid is old but I just saw the movie so here are some thoughts:
Good video but are you sure Toller isn't actually based off of Thomas Merton the monk and not Tom Merton the prison guy? I think you may have confused the two.
A few parallels:
Thomas Merton is mentioned twice by Toller, both in praise of him, throughout the film
Merton was a Catholic monk, Toller is an Protestant priest (both Christian clergy)
Both suffered with illness, both mental and physical
Both had trouble with sin (its implied Toller slept with Esther, and not to mention his relationship with Mary) while Merton lusted after a young nurse while in his 50s
Both struggled with their faith
The whole film is about inner/outer conflict. The pastor role model vs. the grieving alcoholic, the stoic defender of hope vs. the fiery defender of Planet Earth, the enduring friend vs. the passionate lover. The ending plays out Toller's repressed passion for Mary because he knows it'll never happen, then he kills himself. Taxi Driver also ended with a dream sequence.
Brilliant film.
Never watched the movie but you explained it and I'm still confused
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watched it last night, it really hit home. beautiful cinematography, every scene is like a still. and i love how it blends religion with environmental changes. very brilliant and well-crafted.
By the way, this movie has nothing to do with religion. Also, did anyone else notice Mary's husband, Michael, in that decrept tugboat in that "dream" sequence? It started positive and hopeful and then it became destruction. Or was that just my imagining?
@@camb546 nonsense
Listen to the hymn. That’s the key
THE PHANTOM THREAD REFERENCE,, BLESS
I think he did die and it was all a final thought. Reminded me of The Sopranos ending
Good review. I only have only issue with it. I feel you should have kept the movie footage in the original aspect ratio. You could've put the First Reformed graphics down the sides. It's just that the film is so beautiful, it is extremely distracting watching your review cut out 65 percent of the frame. It is a good review though. Keep up the awesome work.
Toller tried to kill those he considered responsible for the earth's sad decay but then when he found out that his one hope on this decayed earth would have to die too, he decided to end his own life and leave room for another soul just like Michael did. In his mind, he still did throw in his buck to save the world and that final kiss is somewhat his reward for doing so. He is being freed of all religious and earthly boundaries.
I too felt he did indeed commit suicide at the end, but also the ending also included a bit of the idea that "in dying we are born to eternal life" ( as it is phrased in the prayer of St. Francis, which is well known to many recovering alcoholics). It felt as if God did forgive Toller for his suicide. Whether God will forgive the other "destroyers of the earth" is up in the air.
Just watched it and i think its a good film with some good food for thought moments. One thing i would debate is your idea that the female not being able to get into the room at the end. You see the female in the church way more than times then you see Cedric. He is only there during the big event. Also, it's even more likely she had access via key or something due to their implied relationship after the floating scene but her appearance is very much portrayed almost as a miracle. To tell you the truth i think he hurt himself to pump himself up to become a martyr. Drano is actually a long and painful death if ingested also. I think he did kill himself and his last thoughts were about the love he could have had. I didn't like it, but that's my take away.
That makes sense.
Thats why the kissing scene takes so long because Drano needs Time to Kill u
The film references Trappist monk Thomas Merton, not whoever that other Tom Merton is.
Hollywood has, yet again, taken it upon itself to be the purveyor of purity...and in typical Hollywood fashion, can't do so in a straight-forward manner. They see themselves as all knowing, while the rest of us must be tricked into compliance through subtext and "deeper" meanings.
They laughably have embarked on a movie-making model that involves ALL subtext, and absolutely no story. This movie is a perfect example of this. There is no story in this movie. It's just a series of events that tries not to get in the way of "The Message".
The meaning behind this movie is, "How can we get those dumb Christians to get on board with this climate thing?". That's pretty much it.
But here's the funny thing, the movie isn't made for the people it's addressing. It's made for people who would break both of their arms patting themselves on the back. People who find endless entertainment in how clever they are in picking up on the nuance of the "subtext". They watch movies like this, the same way advertising agencies watch their commercials before approval. This is their target audience.
The funeral scene was hilarious and awkward. I thought it was a joke at first. Was that supposed to be a serious scene?
The light fixture that looks like an ever-watching eye, the folded American flag cleverly lit in the background of the closet, etc, etc...yuk. Why not just smack people in the face with those objects as they're entering the theater? lol
Ethan Hawke's performance is fantastic. He is one hell of an actor. This movie though...ugh...waste of time.
Seen First Reformed today. Liked it a lot. Thanks for explaining the end. Now it all makes sense.
This channel is so underrated 😣
Being it A24, I was thinking he was gonna detonate the vest right after Amanda walks in the church, and that sense of despair would've been on both their faces roll credits. I was kinda hoping for that tbh
Tman Tailor A24 is known for throwing audiences for a loop with their endings. Their trailers are brilliantly edited to misdirect
did anybody else notice in the shot of the shipwreck when they levitate, there is a standing man looking straight at us ?
Lustmord, the music ....heavy, deep.. Love it
They should've given Ethan Hawke well-deserved "Oscar" for his briliant performance!🙌
The ending made me cry hard.
I have so many thoughts of this movie. Its definitely a great movie and one of the best movies of 2018. It's very disturbing very. I personally believed he drank the draino and he visualized the kissing scene. This movie was something else man I enjoyed it from start to finish.
I also found out this movie to not be for radical pollution activists I saw it as if anything against them. These people care so much about God's creation and are so one dimensional In thought they forget they are a creation of god and disregard there own health and their fellow human beings. This is shown by Ethan hawkes character with him not caring for his health drinking and pissing blood, holding off appointments to get a check up.
I question the quality of any review that can't distinguish between Thomas MERTON, the monk, and Thomas "Tom" O. Murton, the prison reformer.
Helpful. One clarification though, Thomas Merton did not commit suicide. His death was an accident.
Brilliant & overlooked film. One of the best of 2018. Deserves awards but we all know that'll never happen
Is that what draino looks like? I thought it was oil. Your explanation works for me...I've been wondering wtf about thee ending for days. I kinda thought 'didn't he have barbed wire all over him' - you know, the same wire that slayed a cute little bunny in a cemetery. HEY KIDS! WELCOME TO HAPPY THOUGHTS THE MOVIE :)
He was based on Thomas MERTON - the American monk and religious scholar, not Tom MURTON (the Arkansas prison warden).
Excellent explanation Let Me Explain, and Owen Reese, excellent interpretation and to add to that, he dons the thrones of Christ in the end and dies for the sins of the world... in my thinking.
Everything is so black and white for film goers. Which ending? Which ending? What is the CORRECT interpretation?
Schrader gave us what one would call a Buñuel ending; open to many interpretations that can be equally valid, or as Schrader put in his own screenplay, holding two contradictory thoughts at once. So it's possible that Hawke's character is spiritually rescued by Mary literally in the movie's real life and is really kissing her; or he did commit suicide and this is an ecstatic vision before or during death; OR it is an actual miracle - God sending Mary to intervene; OR even the possibility that Ethan Hawke could do the bombing at a later date; OR Hawke did commit suicide and the last scene is an ascension to heaven - a reward for a martyrdom that is revealed through the testimony of his journal and barbed wire body. It's wondrous that almost all these possibilities have equal weight. This was one of my favorite movies of 2018.
Loved the phantom thread “Easter egg” 🤣
out of all the a24 releases this year i reallly liked this one
i can respect the artform/filmaking. I'm really into films, and especially i love taxi driver and i know this is not taxi driver, and taxi driver is irrelevant but fuck idk, i knew exactly what i was getting into. A slow burn, depressing, haunting movie as a character study, and even the politics i agreed with, but overall as the films engagement... Just really, didnt catch me for more than 7 minutes on and off. it's like, he was so close to making a great film, but overall IMO just kind of fell flat. I REALLY wanted to like this movie, as well as seeing all the praise, and i usually dont agree with audience scores, especially anything that a24 produces, but First Reformed... just couldnt really say that i enjoyed it as much as i wanted to. I'm sad to say i'd give this very underwhelming movie, a 5.5/10. Respect it completley and i liked the direction at the end, but then they had 2 fake outs in a row, i was like yes blow the church... but if he did, it kind of contradict's his character... i know hawke was conflicted in this film so it makes sense for him to take the vest as soon as he see's amanda. then he applied barbedwire everywhere which i got exicted about, then when amanda walked in when he was about to drink that fucking drain cleaner was sick, i was like " DRINK IT " then he fucking drops that, and him and amanda start making out and then it ends. just so, anti climatic, as the movie built this whole scene up, and i almost felt nothing but regretted watching this movie, not beacuse of it's weighty themes, but how it was concluded. anti climatic, disapointed to conclude. just thought this movie would have more in the end.
i’m glad i gave this film 4 stars even though i HATED that ending. now i just look dumb knowing the part where you said that maybe meeting Mary was “just in his head”. love that and i would consider it my theory from now on.
with you on this. one of my favorite movies of the year
I am a strong advocate of climate change, but even I thought this film was too heavy handed. But I enjoyed it
What is the final word that Amanda says when she shows up in the room? Sounds like "Earnst"...?? like maybe Tiller's first name? I looked on IMDB and he's just listed as Toller. No first name. So....what does she say? - Never mind.....I looked up the script:
The Drano drops from his hand, spills across the floor.
MARY: Ernst?
He stands.
......so yeah....I guess that's his first name.
The barbed wire comes from "Wise Blood" by Flannery O'Connor
If you stay through the credits, you can hear sirens coming, so yea he went through with it
Oh shiiitttt u actually saw my comment. This channel and AtZ are amazing, keep up the great work
CameraGuy322 I was hoping when it went black the bomb exploded.
Trolled
CameraGuy322 either you are super human to hear the Siren or we are deaf.. Lol
but there was a siren and im for the ending nt being a dream but i did heard a very slight siren ,,maybe to bring him to the hospital cause barbwire
these videos are legit so entertaining, this is the first time i’ve watched a whole channels videos, and paid attention
This movie resembles Bergman's Winter Light much more than Taxi Driver
Oh..it could be and the cut to black is the despair, the alternative of hope. The two main themes of the movie I think.
My theory is maybe the ending scene could be something playing out in his mind because he said shortly beforehand all that stuff about what goes through a mans mind before he dies. But ultimately the ending was very unsatisfying. Here's a movie that seems to have some pretty strong, yet subtle views on religion and it seemed to be taking risks. The film ultimately feels like it's telling the tale of a man who slowly martyrs his own humanity after seeing the corruption overtake what he once held such faith for. I was fully ready to see him go in there and blow that church up and just have it end right there, but ultimately the kissing scene just kinda feels like a safe ending to risky movie.
He did die. Notice in the church she has on blue but when she is seen in his house the colors are different. I hate when movie makers don't explain themselves at least by the end of the film. Ugggh!
I thought your comment was as brilliant as a Sherlock Holmes observation, but then,... I had to go back and watch the last minutes of the film again. Sorry, she's wearing the same outfit in the church and when she appears in the priest's house.
04:50 nice catch.
Paul has come out and said that it was like divine intervention.
I get this movie to some level. Until you had said that the character of Michael committed suicide to make way for his offspring, this is what this movie is about! It's about the death of old (and decaying) to make way for the new life BUT doing it as an "up yours (old) institution"? it's the total inverse of the current. The old, represented by Ethan Hawke's character, is overcome by extremism (as mentioned in this movie). This is not how Generation X works. If there's one thing this movie is about, it can be about how we blame the generation that precedes the one before. This movie could be about how the old is supposed to sacrifice its young like how Cronos eats its young. And then it became the reverse in this movie. It really paints a very bleak and negative outlook on the future. I give this movie an "A" for cinematic plot.
Okay, 6 minutes.
“Religious people who don’t put out the recycling every week” so true🤦🏻♀️
I suscribed at 38k and now you're at 72k!!!!
i'm also a subscriber of this channel. every day i've watched many movies. it's simple and easy and for free when you are a boxxy software user and this channel helps me to understand them better.
I just watched this movie, I feel like I missed something, desperately searching the internet to find what is so amazing about this movie but can't. Acting was good, some message about struggling faith and man destroying earth references to the Bible and art but nothing mind blowing please enlighten me cause I don't see what is so special about this movie.
can someone please explain why this movie was so good? i genuinely hated this movie and it’s ending and i have never said that about a movie before.
I believe he drank the fluid and kissing Mary was his final thoughts as he was dying. But he didn't go through with the suicide vest. You see how long it takes for him to put on the vest and then the outer garments and then take off the vest. I mean if he was gonna blow himself up, why drink fluid drain? He would have to be in at least some good condition to perform the suicide bombing. Why jeopardize that by poisoning yourself. He then wraps the barb wire around himself to chastise and punish himself for attempting to harm other human beings after the oath he took as a reverend, and then puts on a white garment out of some symbolic gesture to make himself new again.
Love your channel! 💘💖
Rose stilinski .
I appreciate any Christian film that challenges spiritual emotion, no matter what your devotions. Rather than be the typical massage therapy other religious movies deliver.
I see Ethan Hawk's character as a man severly depressed over the guilt of his son's death who is repressed sexually due to blaming himself for the death of his son and denying himself any pleasure in life as a result of this. He lives in a schizophrenic world inside his head where he has a fantasy girlfriend who becomes Amanda's character. His sense of purpose helping others as a priest was never fulfilled until he saw the need to care about the environment and take on the suicided husband's cause and walk in this guy's shoes, even having her as his fantasy girlfriend. The only way this movie makes any sense to me is if we believe his interactions with Amanda's character are shown to us as seen by him in his schizophrenic head. Otherwise none of the scenes with them together make any sense, like her home's austere starkness, her lack of people in her house after his suicide, her asking him to box her husband's stuff up with no friends around helping her, etc etc. Following the plot's ending, one can assume, since he is dying, he feels the need to kill himself plus become a sacrificial lamb to destroy the corrupt church's reputation. Even though the ending is up for interpretation, the only thing that makes sense to me is that he sees her in his mind and embraces her as he is dying. But why did he not do more to make sure his sacrifice brings awareness of the church's corruption with the environmentally toxic company after his death? Like writing a letter to a newspaper about why he killed himself? That to me would have made sense, otherwise wouldn't his suicide be in vain? Not to mention, why didn't her husband make a similar suicide statement? So that part of the plot felt very weak. And his schizophrenia was too cloaked...I would have shown reality in juxtaposition with his fantasy, for example, a visit to her home after the funeral showing her with family and friends and showing her home not austere and dreary, to show how it's only that way when he's alone with her in his mind, or after floating with her body, showing how it never really happened, and her standing there asking if he's ok. Also his rage at the end needed a close up of his face...that lack of a close up probably cost him an Oscar, Mr Director. General things that made no sense were how he didn't quote the Bible very much and didn't talk about God with much reverance to others, and that he didn't pray. Sorry but none of that was very believable. A great movie to me is more than just great screen shots, great symbolism, or great acting, the story and behavior of the characters have to be based on realistic human behavior...in this case realistic behavior of a sick, depressed schizophrenic, which, for the crucial parts of the plot, it was not.
WOW! And I mean it seriously.
Most analyzations are just summaries of the movies. It's nice to an actual idea
Can anybody explain the whole wire thing? That was probably the creepiest scene for me. Why did he have that thing? Why did want to commit suicide for that matter?
Look, I am a liberal but I don't think a filmmaker should be the most strident preacher in a story about a priest. Look, I get the message. I still think it was a great film, but what fascinated me the most was its unflinching portrait of the blackest heart of human depression. Yet, in the grip of this demon, Rev. Toller is able to give wise counsel: is it worse to bring a child into a horrible dying civilization, or to kill that child before she has a chance even to see it?
Those who destroy Eden will not be forgiven.
Have a theory. Maybe he did drink the draino and ended up hallucinating the whole kissing scene
This movie could have been the next shawshank redemption. Half way in the movie i was thinking i should recommend this movie to my friend. My disappointment was world shattering in the second half. 😪
This film & suspiria are my favorite