Got my greentop barra at 180,000kms back in 09. Slapped a turbo on her, big injectors etc straight away sent her to 548kw. She's been there for 14 years now and she's on 330,000kms. Havent had any issues. Take it to drag races all over Australia, burnout comps, power cruises most weekends shes getting driven hard. Only change oil n filter ever 6 months thats all she just loves the boost being fed to her
This is why I enjoy this channel so much. Instead of flogging a dead horse and trying to make out like it is still the best because you happen to have it, and it is made out of unobtanium and build in some kind of mystery like some channels would. You give us the straight up truth, that it is no longer viable to go down that path. Thanks Scotty for keeping it real.
@@AtreidaeChibiko I think those days are long behind me. I keep thinking it would be nice to build another fast car, then I realise I live in QLD with a speed camera behind every bush. Also being married my money has other priorities these days, but still the thought of a fast car persists. So for now I just need to find the motivation to finish off some of my current projects like the remote control mower, and the CNC mods.
Just buy an existing v12 🤷♂️🤣 it'd be cheaper lol Lamborghini make a 6L v12 ,some mercs and bmw also had v12 options, wouldn't be too hard or costly to grab one , be expensive but still cheaper than designing and building a custom block n crank.
100% I've actually been saying this for years now. By the time you buy (at inflated prices) a gassy, remove the head and do the valves, remove the pistons and gap the rings etc. Just pick up an NA motor and build it. I run a drift car with an NA motor with gapped rings, turbo and on e85 n 10psi. It's great bang for buck and reliable 👍
100% facts! Completely agree! I did it to myself for a Barra in my patrol. Lucky I opened it up to give it a freshen up bearings were toast. Head was toast I now have fully rebuilt motor. But I now tell anyone that ask buy an na motor and do rods and pistons and the other supporting stuff!
Yeah was a shock to the system when I looked a month ago for my vn and knowing they at least need rings n bearings and possibly head recoed I was like yeah nah not paying 1000+ for an engine that needs a basic rebuild, if I'm going rebuild one it's getting all the fruit and unfortunately that's outa my budget atm. So staying with the ol buick now, it was already turboed so may as well finish it and enjoy it as it is, only reason I was looking at barra was for it's simplicity and ease of modification, turboing the buick was an absolute nightmare, it's amazing how quick you run outa room and was frustrated by it but it's 99% done now so may as well stick to it 👌
Great vid and it’s spot on accurate! it would be nice just to go all out billet straight up but you got to work with what is on the bench sometimes lol I still think the Ecotec is better! they are still cheap and they age well often having minimal bore taper,guaranteed the valves are pitted and it’ll need a deck but that’s not major. I just put 40000+ km over 2 years and hundreds of 1/4 passes on a cheaply modified l36 engine roughly $2k build cost running 20psi every day! and it took me jamming the boost in earlier and earlier to a point but with 2bar hitting like a hammer it bananafied the rods! Ooops that just cost $100 but even then with bananas for rod’s 5mm shorter than normal it still had good power! And easily walked away from most. On a fresh motor it reels in a Yamaha r1 bike in top gear so it’s finally getting some forgies
Even the earlier ln3's and l27 buicks can make decent power for not much $ , I'm at about 13k on my ln3 and it should be good for 400 rwhp 👌 From what I've been told by a few gurus getting the heads done and a decent cam n valvetrain and it's good for 550 atw on a stock bottom end 👌 though I'm not game to try that without at least arp studs lol realistically at that point I'm doing rods n pistons too. Ecos are a better start though being they have better designed heads , kinda regretting not going to an eco to start but decided to use what I had already though in saying that I wish I'd just gone barra instead lol
Hmmm scotty......you owe me a beer next week. You have just devalued the 50 greentop taxis I have paddock stored!!!!!!! I was only just starting to turn some $$$$ to pay for building a blown injected 460 big block for weekend drag challenge 🙃
Yup, Been saying this for a while now. Gassies also have high compression so more of a pain to run boost with. Cheap na, new rods, pistons, turbo valves if you want to be fancy, valve springs and you've got a great base for power!
Appreciate the vid Scotty, the Everyman who thinks they’ll have 500+ rwkw for f all is a pipe dream agreed on that However they are still cheap ($204) doll hairs at Jollys If someone was going to the extent of putting rods in a silver top it’s arguably similar’ish cost to have a green top valve seats recut and replace valves - that is if they’re even buggered. Same deal with the ring gaps in either variant LONG LIVE THE GT MOTER!
They were a great cheap option for a bulk power upgrade in their heyday. But, yes, they're getting too long in the tooth now. Spend some money on rebuilding one to your needs and you'll get years more enjoyment out of it.
I remember when ACM did a deal when they sold Barra motors for $79! 😎 Nowadays, you just get any low mileage block you can find and just swap the parts you need to anyway (head studs, pistons/rods, oil pump gears, etc.) 👍 Let's not get into the foreigners scabbing all the Barra's they can off us. 😂👍
@STREETMACHINETV cheers, I bought it with 150,000km and it's from a 10/2002 BA, so it is probably one of the first barras to have been produced, hahaha
Was saying this about 4 years ago. Build an na (especially when they were 40 to 60 bucks each engine with roughly 200000ks on them.) Buy the good bits for the inside of the motor. And wallah.
Sounds like Maxx Performance are getting inundated with requests from viewers to get the same power from the green tops in the carnage cars, without spending the money that has been spent on them. None of the cars on the channel are budget cars and I don’t think people realise that. Most of them start out that way, but due to breakages or whatever they are all heavily modified projects.
@@EnviXR81 not even just cheaper, the time saved outweighs basically everything. Especially since people feel the need to go camping every second weekend and waste time on other stuff. Too much fk assing around by just being tight.
Being old cab driver. Taxi would do 800,000 plus kms in 6 years. I drove some with over 1000,000. Oil from big bases and Ozzie owners changed oil every 5000 km. Oil looked like honey. Some onwer would not use coolant and cheap oil. One owner I drove had two motor replaced at 600k. LPG is hard on heads, that y there were not many Holden cars. Ones I knew would do heads around 300k. I seen ex cabs from mid 90s with 1.2 million k
This was good to here.. saying up options.. I watched the garage built an and think that’s the way to go.. still relatively cheap compared to everything else.. a lot cheaper than ls aswell
Amen to that! And that is coming from a qualified Environmental scientist here 😉 Oh a turbo rotary owning Environmental scientist tho......I ain't no climate change alarmist 🖕 f*ck them c*nts! Btw I'm the one wanting to burn the trees to Syngas all the Barras!
Mate of mine is doing this. He's pushing 700hp from his sohc au motor at the moment with goals of 1000hp. He's put a fair whack of money into it though.
@@wheeman999 there's a very inexpensive combination. L series nissan conrods (I used 180b datsun rods) xf/ea crank, vw air cooled pistons. There's the basics plus machine work to offset grind. I've also used this set-up in a 202 block with the shorter rods aspirated. It went mid 12 in a full body fx 5 spd stick shift, constantly snapped camshafts as the revs were too much harmonics for it. 20 years ago.
I have a dirty old 03 ba wags that I’ve driven into the ground. I’ve scrapped the car and the Barra is tucked away ready for myself to learn to tear it down and build it to turbo spec and there will be no corners cut. All matching will be done professionally then with the help of a Barra guru mate that lives and breathes barras will help me reassemble for a future swap into another vehicle. May take a few years but I’m willing to take the time do it right. Be no 2k Barra build that’s for sure.
@@imashankusobad I was referring to the days of cheaper and lower milage green top barras are gone now like they said in the video, hence why its not really worthwhile boosting green tops anymore.
@@craigsampson3386 they are also WAY over priced because they popular and in demand from people boosting them. There's 250k klms ones going for $1k, but theyre not selling though. So the party is over. Its good that this video was made cause maybe it might make people wake up to themselves and come back to planet earth and maybe we all can still get a barra for a reasonable price.
Even 3 years ago i did one same thing dude wanted it on the cheap did spring on the motor and 6 of the 12 ex valve were leaking he sent it and still ran 28 psi for a year
Have replace 20 or more green tops. Usual symptom is running rough. Pull the rocker cover and it’s alway on number 6 cylinder the camshaft lobes have lost their case hardening and started to munch the roller on the rocker arms. Oil clean as usual, but very high in water content. Since the oil doesn’t protect the contact surfaces when the engine is off, it’s begins to rust the camshaft. It’s a slow process to begin with but become catastrophic very quickly once the hardening is broken through. Root cause, lack of servicing and using mineral oil.
@@10GTE hardening process fine, but the condensation on the camshaft always seem to be where the pcv valve is , funnily enough exhaust cam no6 is directly below the pcv . Petrol don’t suffer from it, turbo don’t either only the Egas.
@@STREETMACHINETV I assumed it was a BF3 bit of weirdness…as they’re basically BF2’s built next to FG’s…they have a few weird things Base XT trim, but they got rear power windows as standard instead of winders, and the mirror switch is not a B-series switch…must be from the terry or FG…lots of odd things like that
IMHO , if you are going to put a green top through even mild boost . You need to pull it down , new gapped rings, bearings as well as the normal mods .
Nice one Scotty and Zane, It makes good sense to rebuild anyway especially if you want longevity. I've had this chat with a few mates about Greentops and LPG engines, Its a dry fuel, you have to do valve seat inserts on a good propane/butane engine anyway plus spend money on a new intake system and the engines went in tradie utes, taxis and pov pack tightarse specials and this all has an age limit. Then theres the parts thing, Aussie engines dont have the aftermarket support US and Euro engines do and sure theres parts support but its shrinking unlike the likes of Japanese engines and there they need a once over and freshen up. Look at the run you've had with Trolvo compared to Turbo Taxi........ (and that was hurt coz of a whoops) SO I reckon the way forward is US engines, Coyotes etc and the likes of JZ's and UZ's unless you are prepared to spend money and do it right.
Ive had 2 gassys let me down and finally biting the bullet and building a forged engine. The first green top was mint, 120,00km and i fitted dominator springs, studs, pump gears and head gasket. Lasted 10,000km with 16psi 400rwkw and sent a rod out the side. The second one was tired, hone, rings, bearings and carried over the dominator stuff whilst also adding all genuine timing gear. lasted a little over 1000km and bent a rod on the dyno. Car has quality supporting mods with Nigel Rose turbo, big cooler and piping, plazie surge etc. The trouble is people claim the car makes 4 5 600 kw on a gassy, easy, but you never hear for how long.
They would be alright on a low boost. Just a little extra grunt maybe 350-400 hp max with some extra bolt ons. That would be a satisfying daily to drive around and enjoy.
@@XA393GT but you're still probably going to need to start rebuilding the whole engine from this point on. Especially with the older engines. Anything with 200k+ is starting to get dicey. Yeah the glory days of boosting 100 dollar green tops are over lol, but theres still fucken heaps of barras around. They just need more work now.
Honestly by the time you buy all the supporting parts to make good power throwing a bit more at putting some decent parts and a little machining into the engine isn't that much more. The old saying poor man pays twice comes to mind.
So. I'd say the next best "cheap" hp turbo engine would be an intech best option is get a au (xr6 if possible for the vct motor otherwise just get a normal head re ported) off a old folk put rods, pistons, oil pump, get the cam re grinded, crank balanced, valves and springs then just make a turbo manifold if possible get a ebay turbo kit and get a j3 chip of you want a fairly reliable cheap ish turbo car
Mazda turbo 4s that come in just about every new Mazda, even stock they go hard, went for a ride in a cx3 my brother was borrowing and f me it goes, I was very surprised by it's performance tbh. The Ford ecoboost is another good one. For 6s though there's not much around, maybe current Mitsubishi and Nissan v6s but not much else. Though the trusty old buick or ecotec v6s still have plenty in em, can build 600hp capable ecos for under 20k still, can pick em up for 250$ or less 👍 Or even the earlier falcon 4Ls like aus intech.
@@snapped4433 6boost manifolds fit them too 👍 Keep it reet are building one now, just a base intech, they reckon they should 500rwkw on stock bottom end, be interesting to see if it does or explodes in spectacular fashion lol
i got a gassy and rebuilt it like oem fresh because of just this they were workhorses and they got worked hard i am planning on this being the test engine its refreshed and moded so its 9.0 comp to one i will be documenting how far i can push what is now a factory fresh low comp gassy then immediatelt start building a full built going for 9k rpm no matter what boost i want a singing falcon
I’ve got 340k on my LPi (owned since new). Still has great compression, and no hint of valve seat issues. Only thing showing it’s age is ticky tappets for the first 0.5 seconds on a cold start. It’s had a hard life too. I don’t drive it softly. Over 20,000km of its life has been spent lugging a loaded car trailer all over NSW and a few times interstate too. Direct injection petrol cars are no different as far as the lack of valve lube from wet fuel, and they’ve been around over a decade now. Most don’t have issues (gasket failure usually stops them!)
So would a BA ute with column auto, little or no towing with nearly 240,000km on the clock be a good thing then? I'd think for occasional drag racing maybe different auto & something to stiffen up rear springs but pushing up engine power...yeah whats too little, whats too much? 🙂
Ahh so the old "I know what I've got" price tag has hit the green tops now making them not so cheap power. I've seen a few for the $400 mark on marketplace I think as a community if we can look and only pay fair prices instead of buying the first one we see it'll calm down the mungbeans inflating the prices they put up. But this is coming from a guy that still buys holden 5ltrs lol
@@craigsampson3386 I just bought a motor and loom computer for 1750$ had a video of it running. 3000-3500$ for a decent motor and trans with computer and loom is a fair price.
@@craigsampson3386 yeah I'm from canberra so I'm sorta enclosed by Melbourne and Sydney. Maybe it's because I'm cheap but it's just keeping an eye out for the good bargains gumtree fb marketplac and sometimes ebay.
The exact same thing happened with the JZ engines. People made 1000hp on a stock engine when they were new. Now they are getting old and expensive to maintain and fix you never know the history or condition without stripping it down and building it. This is where the aftermarket makes it easier when they start reproducing blocks with corrections for factory flaws so you can make 1000hp reliably on stock internals with an aftermarket block.
I’ve actually got a taxi Spec EL falcon, tickford duel fuel before the green tops came out, it was actually bought by a farmer, OPT25 but never used as a taxi 👀
I wouldent be surpised if I had a slightly bent rod aswell, backfires atleast 4x a week (I do a lot of driving) you can hear the difference in the exhaust note especially when running on petrol (could also be shitty injectors from being never used)
@@STREETMACHINETV on gas 90% of the time but make sure I give it a good peel on petrol every so often to make sure it still works as I’ve had dead fuel pumps and blocked filters on my old duel fuel AU aswell
@@STREETMACHINETV be oxygen sensor failing, how many Ks to a tank do you get? I still got 500ks to 100$ of 91 at todays prices (highway) with a fucked o2 sensor, sensor got replaced when the gas converter got replaced, which the vialle ones are aparently shit and Set me back $650 alone 👀
Thats all well and good, very informative, but what about the comparison to the market? Say LS, RB, JZ? How do they compare to OEM / aftermarket support, vs a Japanese market that's nearing 30years of washed-up engines... I'd love to see your opinions on the next best thing, think it would be interesting, especially from someone who knows the tuning market.
Was good while it lasted for a heap of workshops to cash on tuning 10 cars a day with Gassy turbo conversions lol Now the issues are biting them in the ass it's not worth taking the work on.
Was always my understanding that the green tops had thicker rods than a N/A barra. But they weren't as thick as the genuine BF or later turbo (FPV) rods.
Would a 2003 green top be able to handle say 270kw, to 300kw? I would imagine for some people who already own thier car and arent looking for mental power they could still be a good option.
What would a mid level bottom end cost..? Can anyone recommend a popular rod and piston kit...its still a daily at 14psi or 1 bar max..i have sorted the bolt ons but my first barra
Not unusual. Ford were using up whatever bits they had to keep the wagons in production for minimal cost. We had a heap of the early FG with mixer gas at work as company cars, up to October 2010 when they stopped producing them, expecting the LPi to be ready, but it wasn’t, not until August 2011 (I bought one of the first production LPis). We also had a few BF3 wagons from ‘09, and it puzzled me why 2 of them were standard BF silver top, like a petrol, but the other one, and all the early FGs were still green. Working for a supplier to Ford and FPV, as well as an R&D partner, I had ready access to the engineering team - a fantastic, talented bunch of people btw. When I asked about it, I was told there’s subtle differences in the FG vs BF (gas, not petrol- it had bigger changes) and the low volume of dedicated gas BF3s didn’t justify another minimum qty batch of a special part, when the plain one still in production would suffice.
Yes and no. Let's take your 1jz for example that was sitting on the floor for years n years. Was fine and held up well. Realistically for a budget build even you still need to change valve springs so may as well get head machined. I remember maxx performance saying ba greentops had weak rods. I had 3 of them all had 3r23. I reckon the opposite. Greentops will better with age just like a bottle of wine and a nice old tasty snatch
If anyone thinks they can get away with not doing valve springs on basically anything barra, JZ, LS, etc they're a fuckwit, like just stop being so tight haha
Yep, that's the point of the video. Barra's are great, but the days of going ballistic on stock bottom ends is past. Rods are cheap, pistons aren't much more, our Mazda proves you can make great power without spending a million dollars
wouldn't hurt a few people to hear that. There's open chequebooking a forged engine and there's doing rods, pistons and valve springs like a normal person should haha. I swear us Aussies are kinda retarded, would rather spend money on unnecessary crap vs functional parts.
Everything wears out over time. It will eventually get to the point that all that will be available is aftermarket manufactured parts. Sad the barra was only available in Australia, will it be viable for manufactures to produce aftermarket parts? I recon give it 10 years and barras will be totally forgotten about because they just wont be economically viable to the consumer to build or the manufacturer to produce given the limited market barras where available in. Its only a matter of time to Australia follows the US in environmental legislation that will basically make car modification impossible or to expensive to be legislation compliant. ICE performance engines in reality have no future given current world views, we as car enthusiasts are just going to have to adapt to race only ICE based performance or go electric or hopefully ICE engines will adopt hydrogen as fuel source or die. Only time will tell
no ford did that when they decided to bail on australia. no more holdens , no more good fords, all american crap mexico made mustangs, mustangs are crap.
Depends non how much you want out of it. Yes it's a good idea to gap the rings, but plenty of people have made great power on unopened green top engines.
There's no common sense in anybody who actually thought they will make 1000hp with a stock green top lol! Not gonna lie, I hold you personally responsible for this haha! 😂
Not really considering 2js n rbs are going for up to 5k or more and people are still building them lol Even ls are going for stupid money. A green top is still a goer but because of their age your gonna need to do at least rings n bearings and possibly have the head recoed or grab an na head ,still good for a budget guy ,it's a good way to get the good rods without the cost of aftermarket rods and or pistons. If u were doing a big power build then yeah start with an na engine and do everything lol
Scotty over here trying to single handedly kill the green top market to make them cheap again
I got one under my bench I paid 400$ for 😉
Next he should cover VTs & VXs.... Millenials might start trying to sell their manged out 6s for under $100k😂
All while preparing a 30 year old 1UZ 😂😅
@@georgegoodall3573 my local wreckers offerd me $355 for green top barra with just over 100,000km on it, lol
@@georgegoodall3573 I just payed $300 for mine today
Got my greentop barra at 180,000kms back in 09. Slapped a turbo on her, big injectors etc straight away sent her to 548kw. She's been there for 14 years now and she's on 330,000kms. Havent had any issues. Take it to drag races all over Australia, burnout comps, power cruises most weekends shes getting driven hard. Only change oil n filter ever 6 months thats all she just loves the boost being fed to her
Hi can you recommend me anyone that can do it in Melbourne?
Cap
This is why I enjoy this channel so much. Instead of flogging a dead horse and trying to make out like it is still the best because you happen to have it, and it is made out of unobtanium and build in some kind of mystery like some channels would. You give us the straight up truth, that it is no longer viable to go down that path. Thanks Scotty for keeping it real.
When are we building a car mate ;)
@@AtreidaeChibiko I think those days are long behind me. I keep thinking it would be nice to build another fast car, then I realise I live in QLD with a speed camera behind every bush.
Also being married my money has other priorities these days, but still the thought of a fast car persists.
So for now I just need to find the motivation to finish off some of my current projects like the remote control mower, and the CNC mods.
🙄
*Someone needs to machine a V12 out of 2x Barras.* 😁👍
I have been wishing for this for a while.
Imagine a xb falcon with 8 litre v12 barras and twin turbo
I like your thinking
@@lukefox7011 true.. We got excited.
Just buy an existing v12 🤷♂️🤣 it'd be cheaper lol
Lamborghini make a 6L v12 ,some mercs and bmw also had v12 options, wouldn't be too hard or costly to grab one , be expensive but still cheaper than designing and building a custom block n crank.
8 liter V12 🤔 very interesting
100% I've actually been saying this for years now. By the time you buy (at inflated prices) a gassy, remove the head and do the valves, remove the pistons and gap the rings etc. Just pick up an NA motor and build it.
I run a drift car with an NA motor with gapped rings, turbo and on e85 n 10psi.
It's great bang for buck and reliable 👍
Built or 1r rods?
@@barraboy03 1R rods. Loves it.
100% facts! Completely agree!
I did it to myself for a Barra in my patrol. Lucky I opened it up to give it a freshen up bearings were toast. Head was toast I now have fully rebuilt motor. But I now tell anyone that ask buy an na motor and do rods and pistons and the other supporting stuff!
Great video, great perspective. Good to hear it from someone like Zane who does this stuff all day
Glad someone finally said it! Seeing greentops on marketplace for $1000 so stupid.
1000 is too much? How much should we be getting them for? Cheers
Yeah was a shock to the system when I looked a month ago for my vn and knowing they at least need rings n bearings and possibly head recoed I was like yeah nah not paying 1000+ for an engine that needs a basic rebuild, if I'm going rebuild one it's getting all the fruit and unfortunately that's outa my budget atm.
So staying with the ol buick now, it was already turboed so may as well finish it and enjoy it as it is, only reason I was looking at barra was for it's simplicity and ease of modification, turboing the buick was an absolute nightmare, it's amazing how quick you run outa room and was frustrated by it but it's 99% done now so may as well stick to it 👌
@@johndoe1778 well it's got 300k on it like most I've seen do, 400 maybe 500 max 👍
Not as bad as ls still, people asking 4k for rebuilders 🙄
@@5lcalais1 cheers bro appreciated
Great vid and it’s spot on accurate! it would be nice just to go all out billet straight up but you got to work with what is on the bench sometimes lol I still think the Ecotec is better! they are still cheap and they age well often having minimal bore taper,guaranteed the valves are pitted and it’ll need a deck but that’s not major. I just put 40000+ km over 2 years and hundreds of 1/4 passes on a cheaply modified l36 engine roughly $2k build cost running 20psi every day! and it took me jamming the boost in earlier and earlier to a point but with 2bar hitting like a hammer it bananafied the rods! Ooops that just cost $100 but even then with bananas for rod’s 5mm shorter than normal it still had good power! And easily walked away from most. On a fresh motor it reels in a Yamaha r1 bike in top gear so it’s finally getting some forgies
Even the earlier ln3's and l27 buicks can make decent power for not much $ , I'm at about 13k on my ln3 and it should be good for 400 rwhp 👌
From what I've been told by a few gurus getting the heads done and a decent cam n valvetrain and it's good for 550 atw on a stock bottom end 👌 though I'm not game to try that without at least arp studs lol realistically at that point I'm doing rods n pistons too.
Ecos are a better start though being they have better designed heads , kinda regretting not going to an eco to start but decided to use what I had already though in saying that I wish I'd just gone barra instead lol
Hmmm scotty......you owe me a beer next week. You have just devalued the 50 greentop taxis I have paddock stored!!!!!!! I was only just starting to turn some $$$$ to pay for building a blown injected 460 big block for weekend drag challenge 🙃
Haha
Sucked in!
Since they're now devalued so much, I'll offer you $50 for a green top just so you can buy some beer. 🤣👍
Yup, Been saying this for a while now. Gassies also have high compression so more of a pain to run boost with. Cheap na, new rods, pistons, turbo valves if you want to be fancy, valve springs and you've got a great base for power!
Dont forget oil pump gears
@@snapped4433 haha yes of course. That just goes without saying for any barra build!
@@andynogo yeah my uncle on his stock fgx xr6 shattered his pump gears other day 😅
@@snapped4433 flex plate as well and timing chain kit
Always honest pragmatic advice from Scotty. Thank you.
I try, nice to be appreciated
Appreciate the vid Scotty, the Everyman who thinks they’ll have 500+ rwkw for f all is a pipe dream agreed on that
However they are still cheap ($204) doll hairs at Jollys
If someone was going to the extent of putting rods in a silver top it’s arguably similar’ish cost to have a green top valve seats recut and replace valves - that is if they’re even buggered.
Same deal with the ring gaps in either variant
LONG LIVE THE GT MOTER!
I love it when Scotty plays with a thick rod ;)
Hahahahah
🤢
They were a great cheap option for a bulk power upgrade in their heyday. But, yes, they're getting too long in the tooth now. Spend some money on rebuilding one to your needs and you'll get years more enjoyment out of it.
I remember when ACM did a deal when they sold Barra motors for $79! 😎
Nowadays, you just get any low mileage block you can find and just swap the parts you need to anyway (head studs, pistons/rods, oil pump gears, etc.) 👍
Let's not get into the foreigners scabbing all the Barra's they can off us. 😂👍
Damn, here I was looking to fill a 50--foot container full of Barras and Empire parts...☺
For my barra I'm building, I started off with an NA xr6 BA for my EF falcon and building a decent engine
Nice
@STREETMACHINETV cheers, I bought it with 150,000km and it's from a 10/2002 BA, so it is probably one of the first barras to have been produced, hahaha
Between 2 Barra’s was 👌🏼
Hahaha love between two barras
I came to this conclusion when converting my BF Ghia. I just turboed the N/A engine in it and if it lets go I'll just get one built properly.
same deal with my BF ute, Turboed na havent had a issue with it yet on low boost 7-9 psi
Was saying this about 4 years ago.
Build an na (especially when they were 40 to 60 bucks each engine with roughly 200000ks on them.)
Buy the good bits for the inside of the motor.
And wallah.
Love my EcoLpi but I don't see many in Brisbane. Would love to add a bit more.
Thank the lord!!!! Some actual information put out there based in reality 👍
Thank the Lord Jesus Christ that he died for our sins.
Sounds like Maxx Performance are getting inundated with requests from viewers to get the same power from the green tops in the carnage cars, without spending the money that has been spent on them.
None of the cars on the channel are budget cars and I don’t think people realise that. Most of them start out that way, but due to breakages or whatever they are all heavily modified projects.
Not far from the truth. People slap a Green top in and expect 500rwkw
@@STREETMACHINETV absolutely. And for the cost of aftermarket pistons & rods, it’s cheaper to build an engine to take the punishment.
@@EnviXR81 not even just cheaper, the time saved outweighs basically everything. Especially since people feel the need to go camping every second weekend and waste time on other stuff. Too much fk assing around by just being tight.
Being old cab driver. Taxi would do 800,000 plus kms in 6 years. I drove some with over 1000,000. Oil from big bases and Ozzie owners changed oil every 5000 km. Oil looked like honey. Some onwer would not use coolant and cheap oil. One owner I drove had two motor replaced at 600k. LPG is hard on heads, that y there were not many Holden cars. Ones I knew would do heads around 300k. I seen ex cabs from mid 90s with 1.2 million k
This was good to here.. saying up options.. I watched the garage built an and think that’s the way to go.. still relatively cheap compared to everything else.. a lot cheaper than ls aswell
Someday I'd like to put an aussie Inline 6 into my American 1965 falcon Futura here in the USA!
Love my BFIII dedicated lpg station wagon. It's a silver top. Not after big power.
Never vote Green.
Agreed
I love ford but when it comes to performance you need to build
Amen to that! And that is coming from a qualified Environmental scientist here 😉
Oh a turbo rotary owning Environmental scientist tho......I ain't no climate change alarmist 🖕 f*ck them c*nts!
Btw I'm the one wanting to burn the trees to Syngas all the Barras!
Lol only a fool would vote green
Your Westminster clownshow is four flavours of the same corporate sponsored population growth agenda for the sake of creditbubbles and bank profits.
The dreams are alive with some asking north of 4 grand. I'm thinking it's easier to create something wild out of a single cam with good internals.
Yeh and they don't sound like crap.🤣
@@xr6woggo the proper weapons grade barra sound pretty sweet. There's no replacement for a rough idling big cammed four litre.
Mate of mine is doing this. He's pushing 700hp from his sohc au motor at the moment with goals of 1000hp. He's put a fair whack of money into it though.
@@wheeman999 there's a very inexpensive combination. L series nissan conrods (I used 180b datsun rods) xf/ea crank, vw air cooled pistons. There's the basics plus machine work to offset grind. I've also used this set-up in a 202 block with the shorter rods aspirated. It went mid 12 in a full body fx 5 spd stick shift, constantly snapped camshafts as the revs were too much harmonics for it. 20 years ago.
I have a dirty old 03 ba wags that I’ve driven into the ground. I’ve scrapped the car and the Barra is tucked away ready for myself to learn to tear it down and build it to turbo spec and there will be no corners cut. All matching will be done professionally then with the help of a Barra guru mate that lives and breathes barras will help me reassemble for a future swap into another vehicle. May take a few years but I’m willing to take the time do it right. Be no 2k Barra build that’s for sure.
I suppose this time was always coming, just feels sooner than expected though.
not really, barras gained heaps and heaps of traction in the last 2-3 years everyone wants a turbo barra
@@imashankusobad I was referring to the days of cheaper and lower milage green top barras are gone now like they said in the video, hence why its not really worthwhile boosting green tops anymore.
@@craigsampson3386 they are also WAY over priced because they popular and in demand from people boosting them. There's 250k klms ones going for $1k, but theyre not selling though. So the party is over. Its good that this video was made cause maybe it might make people wake up to themselves and come back to planet earth and maybe we all can still get a barra for a reasonable price.
Even 3 years ago i did one same thing dude wanted it on the cheap did spring on the motor and 6 of the 12 ex valve were leaking he sent it and still ran 28 psi for a year
Yep my BA XR6 I’ve pretty much brought all the parts brand new and just stored them away till it ages and put it on club plates when the time is right
Like it or not, 'old age' happens. The Barra is now a member of the $$$ rebuild club!
Have replace 20 or more green tops. Usual symptom is running rough. Pull the rocker cover and it’s alway on number 6 cylinder the camshaft lobes have lost their case hardening and started to munch the roller on the rocker arms. Oil clean as usual, but very high in water content. Since the oil doesn’t protect the contact surfaces when the engine is off, it’s begins to rust the camshaft. It’s a slow process to begin with but become catastrophic very quickly once the hardening is broken through. Root cause, lack of servicing and using mineral oil.
I thought the problem was that the hardening process wasn't very good. Engines have run mineral oils for years and the cams don't pit.
@@10GTE hardening process fine, but the condensation on the camshaft always seem to be where the pcv valve is , funnily enough exhaust cam no6 is directly below the pcv . Petrol don’t suffer from it, turbo don’t either only the Egas.
You’re right about them getting lazy towards the end…I have a ‘09 BF3 dedicated…but a silver top, confused me the first time I opened the bonnet
Turbo Taxi also had a silver rocker cover
@@STREETMACHINETV I assumed it was a BF3 bit of weirdness…as they’re basically BF2’s built next to FG’s…they have a few weird things
Base XT trim, but they got rear power windows as standard instead of winders, and the mirror switch is not a B-series switch…must be from the terry or FG…lots of odd things like that
IMHO , if you are going to put a green top through even mild boost . You need to pull it down , new gapped rings, bearings as well as the normal mods .
Nice one Scotty and Zane, It makes good sense to rebuild anyway especially if you want longevity.
I've had this chat with a few mates about Greentops and LPG engines, Its a dry fuel, you have to do valve seat inserts on a good propane/butane engine anyway plus spend money on a new intake system and the engines went in tradie utes, taxis and pov pack tightarse specials and this all has an age limit.
Then theres the parts thing, Aussie engines dont have the aftermarket support US and Euro engines do and sure theres parts support but its shrinking unlike the likes of Japanese engines and there they need a once over and freshen up.
Look at the run you've had with Trolvo compared to Turbo Taxi........ (and that was hurt coz of a whoops)
SO I reckon the way forward is US engines, Coyotes etc and the likes of JZ's and UZ's unless you are prepared to spend money and do it right.
Ive had 2 gassys let me down and finally biting the bullet and building a forged engine. The first green top was mint, 120,00km and i fitted dominator springs, studs, pump gears and head gasket. Lasted 10,000km with 16psi 400rwkw and sent a rod out the side. The second one was tired, hone, rings, bearings and carried over the dominator stuff whilst also adding all genuine timing gear. lasted a little over 1000km and bent a rod on the dyno. Car has quality supporting mods with Nigel Rose turbo, big cooler and piping, plazie surge etc. The trouble is people claim the car makes 4 5 600 kw on a gassy, easy, but you never hear for how long.
They would be alright on a low boost. Just a little extra grunt maybe 350-400 hp max with some extra bolt ons. That would be a satisfying daily to drive around and enjoy.
@@nepntzerZer you might be on the money for a low stress setup mate
@@XA393GT but you're still probably going to need to start rebuilding the whole engine from this point on. Especially with the older engines. Anything with 200k+ is starting to get dicey. Yeah the glory days of boosting 100 dollar green tops are over lol, but theres still fucken heaps of barras around. They just need more work now.
Great job Scotty/Matty
Honestly by the time you buy all the supporting parts to make good power throwing a bit more at putting some decent parts and a little machining into the engine isn't that much more. The old saying poor man pays twice comes to mind.
Great video and perspective. Everyone knows the 1UZ is where it's at, mine's just turned 30
Glad I had my motor built, never even considered a greentop!! 🤙
Great advice. I'm interested to know what you guys think is the next cheap HP turbo engine?
So. I'd say the next best "cheap" hp turbo engine would be an intech best option is get a au (xr6 if possible for the vct motor otherwise just get a normal head re ported) off a old folk put rods, pistons, oil pump, get the cam re grinded, crank balanced, valves and springs then just make a turbo manifold if possible get a ebay turbo kit and get a j3 chip of you want a fairly reliable cheap ish turbo car
This is a question we ask ourselves every day. Trouble is most new engines are direction injection now and that complicated the situation
Mazda turbo 4s that come in just about every new Mazda, even stock they go hard, went for a ride in a cx3 my brother was borrowing and f me it goes, I was very surprised by it's performance tbh.
The Ford ecoboost is another good one.
For 6s though there's not much around, maybe current Mitsubishi and Nissan v6s but not much else.
Though the trusty old buick or ecotec v6s still have plenty in em, can build 600hp capable ecos for under 20k still, can pick em up for 250$ or less 👍
Or even the earlier falcon 4Ls like aus intech.
@@snapped4433 6boost manifolds fit them too 👍
Keep it reet are building one now, just a base intech, they reckon they should 500rwkw on stock bottom end, be interesting to see if it does or explodes in spectacular fashion lol
Coyote 5Ls will be one once they become cheap enough in the next idk 5 yrs or so 🤔
Glad I have a spare low km Gassy I stashed away years ago 🙂
Thank you for the LPG acronym break down ..... who woulda known😂👌
so what you are saying, is someone needs to make a cheap rod/piston combo so ALL barras can be 2k barras
Spool already do
Well said and very true, they are old now and not serviced people want upto to 2k for one now aswell.
i got a gassy and rebuilt it like oem fresh because of just this they were workhorses and they got worked hard i am planning on this being the test engine its refreshed and moded so its 9.0 comp to one
i will be documenting how far i can push what is now a factory fresh low comp gassy
then immediatelt start building a full built going for 9k rpm no matter what boost i want a singing falcon
Does this apply to the fg2 and later liquid gas injection LPI engines? Or only the 156kw vapour Barras?
LPI engines have thin rods because they don't backfire
@@STREETMACHINETV but hopefully not the valve recession problem, caused by dry gas?
I’ve got 340k on my LPi (owned since new). Still has great compression, and no hint of valve seat issues. Only thing showing it’s age is ticky tappets for the first 0.5 seconds on a cold start. It’s had a hard life too. I don’t drive it softly. Over 20,000km of its life has been spent lugging a loaded car trailer all over NSW and a few times interstate too.
Direct injection petrol cars are no different as far as the lack of valve lube from wet fuel, and they’ve been around over a decade now. Most don’t have issues (gasket failure usually stops them!)
Is this why there is turbo'd Greentop :). Behind ya Scotty in Carnage.:) :) :)
It's not a greentop. It just looks like one. It's an NA engine with rods and pistons
So would a BA ute with column auto, little or no towing with nearly 240,000km on the clock be a good thing then?
I'd think for occasional drag racing maybe different auto & something to stiffen up rear springs but pushing up engine power...yeah whats too little, whats too much?
🙂
Could you drop a EB/EL/EF LPG bottom end into a Barra? It's a common swap for a standard bottom end on Turbo AUs with VCT Heads
Great video again
Ahh so the old "I know what I've got" price tag has hit the green tops now making them not so cheap power. I've seen a few for the $400 mark on marketplace I think as a community if we can look and only pay fair prices instead of buying the first one we see it'll calm down the mungbeans inflating the prices they put up. But this is coming from a guy that still buys holden 5ltrs lol
Whats a fair price on a 5L these days?
@@craigsampson3386 I just bought a motor and loom computer for 1750$ had a video of it running. 3000-3500$ for a decent motor and trans with computer and loom is a fair price.
Yep, every bandwagon eventually runs out of steam.
@nadroj3968 ohyeah nice if I saw that I would've jumped on it too. Guessing you're in the city though? Where prices are probably more competitive.
@@craigsampson3386 yeah I'm from canberra so I'm sorta enclosed by Melbourne and Sydney. Maybe it's because I'm cheap but it's just keeping an eye out for the good bargains gumtree fb marketplac and sometimes ebay.
The exact same thing happened with the JZ engines. People made 1000hp on a stock engine when they were new. Now they are getting old and expensive to maintain and fix you never know the history or condition without stripping it down and building it. This is where the aftermarket makes it easier when they start reproducing blocks with corrections for factory flaws so you can make 1000hp reliably on stock internals with an aftermarket block.
Yep true enough. Now genuine turbo engines are drug money
I hope someone starts making aftermarket barra blocks. Or whole crate motors
@@moth3rfck3r-s4n problem is there is no international interest to justify the creations. There's a few billet blocks coming out but that's about it.
@@moth3rfck3r-s4n boy do I have news for you
Sorry to ask scotty but brought a 2010 bf wagon. No grentop but factory gas. Is it same motor?
BF factory gas should be green top
I’ve actually got a taxi Spec EL falcon, tickford duel fuel before the green tops came out, it was actually bought by a farmer, OPT25 but never used as a taxi 👀
I wouldent be surpised if I had a slightly bent rod aswell, backfires atleast 4x a week (I do a lot of driving) you can hear the difference in the exhaust note especially when running on petrol (could also be shitty injectors from being never used)
It's better if you run them on both if you can. My AU is very rich on petrol, I need to check some things
@@STREETMACHINETV on gas 90% of the time but make sure I give it a good peel on petrol every so often to make sure it still works as I’ve had dead fuel pumps and blocked filters on my old duel fuel AU aswell
@@STREETMACHINETV be oxygen sensor failing, how many Ks to a tank do you get? I still got 500ks to 100$ of 91 at todays prices (highway) with a fucked o2 sensor, sensor got replaced when the gas converter got replaced, which the vialle ones are aparently shit and Set me back $650 alone 👀
Thats all well and good, very informative, but what about the comparison to the market? Say LS, RB, JZ? How do they compare to OEM / aftermarket support, vs a Japanese market that's nearing 30years of washed-up engines... I'd love to see your opinions on the next best thing, think it would be interesting, especially from someone who knows the tuning market.
That's a whole different subject, and maybe a video worth doing
Was good while it lasted for a heap of workshops to cash on tuning 10 cars a day with Gassy turbo conversions lol
Now the issues are biting them in the ass it's not worth taking the work on.
Was always my understanding that the green tops had thicker rods than a N/A barra. But they weren't as thick as the genuine BF or later turbo (FPV) rods.
Same rod, he just told you that!
why would they manufacture 2 different rods with the same part no
@@yeahna The 2 rods he showed had differnt part numbers one started with a 1 the other a 3.
@@grantreid8583 bro... Watch the video again your original understanding was wrong anyway is the point
Mine still runs well though?
Guess it's 'Bye-Bye-Greenie!' Guess the hard core Ford guys will start hoarding and hanging Green 💚🍏 Tops on their Shop Walls 🧱😁.
Syngas all the Barras! Blue gum horse power baby
well true as Taxi's they were maintained, now second and third owners have had them they may have been abused
I'll agree with that
Would a 2003 green top be able to handle say 270kw, to 300kw?
I would imagine for some people who already own thier car and arent looking for mental power they could still be a good option.
Sure, if you know the condition of the engine, but buying a wrecking yard engine and just sending it to 500rwkw is going to end in tears
wow it should be about time an Australian manufacturing firm create a Billet Barra block!
Already happening
Good advice also good to know.
That was tops Scotty 👍
What would a mid level bottom end cost..? Can anyone recommend a popular rod and piston kit...its still a daily at 14psi or 1 bar max..i have sorted the bolt ons but my first barra
A standard bottom end with do 14psi for a long time
Does anybody use lpg anymore?
I'd love to see a n54 build or b58 next gen Inline sixes :)
Im led to believe that all FGX's have stronger rods and other performance parts standard? I have a 2015 FGX😁
Turbo maybe, not NA engines
My BF series 3 2009 was dedicated LPG and it wasn't a green top. Was this usual for this model?
Not unusual. Ford were using up whatever bits they had to keep the wagons in production for minimal cost. We had a heap of the early FG with mixer gas at work as company cars, up to October 2010 when they stopped producing them, expecting the LPi to be ready, but it wasn’t, not until August 2011 (I bought one of the first production LPis). We also had a few BF3 wagons from ‘09, and it puzzled me why 2 of them were standard BF silver top, like a petrol, but the other one, and all the early FGs were still green. Working for a supplier to Ford and FPV, as well as an R&D partner, I had ready access to the engineering team - a fantastic, talented bunch of people btw. When I asked about it, I was told there’s subtle differences in the FG vs BF (gas, not petrol- it had bigger changes) and the low volume of dedicated gas BF3s didn’t justify another minimum qty batch of a special part, when the plain one still in production would suffice.
@@commodorenut Thanks for the reply. I had the wagon since 2012 and still going strong.
Great vid ..
Yes and no. Let's take your 1jz for example that was sitting on the floor for years n years. Was fine and held up well. Realistically for a budget build even you still need to change valve springs so may as well get head machined. I remember maxx performance saying ba greentops had weak rods. I had 3 of them all had 3r23. I reckon the opposite. Greentops will better with age just like a bottle of wine and a nice old tasty snatch
If anyone thinks they can get away with not doing valve springs on basically anything barra, JZ, LS, etc they're a fuckwit, like just stop being so tight haha
I guess I'm building my blacktop then....
Scotty podcast would be awesome.
Lets face it, Barras with untouched internals are dead. If its a green top, might as well keep the rocker cover green to match the engine number.
Yep, that's the point of the video. Barra's are great, but the days of going ballistic on stock bottom ends is past. Rods are cheap, pistons aren't much more, our Mazda proves you can make great power without spending a million dollars
Page up compression
Good video!!!
It's the same green as the Sulo Bins 😂
You've got to expect to rebuild.
Spewing ya didn't get Zane to say "Fuck ya Budget!!!!" That would of been a pisser🤣👍🍻
wouldn't hurt a few people to hear that. There's open chequebooking a forged engine and there's doing rods, pistons and valve springs like a normal person should haha. I swear us Aussies are kinda retarded, would rather spend money on unnecessary crap vs functional parts.
I bet half the guys walking in are wearing red shoes😂👌
Everything wears out over time. It will eventually get to the point that all that will be available is aftermarket manufactured parts. Sad the barra was only available in Australia, will it be viable for manufactures to produce aftermarket parts? I recon give it 10 years and barras will be totally forgotten about because they just wont be economically viable to the consumer to build or the manufacturer to produce given the limited market barras where available in. Its only a matter of time to Australia follows the US in environmental legislation that will basically make car modification impossible or to expensive to be legislation compliant. ICE performance engines in reality have no future given current world views, we as car enthusiasts are just going to have to adapt to race only ICE based performance or go electric or hopefully ICE engines will adopt hydrogen as fuel source or die. Only time will tell
You have just killed the great Australian dream.
no ford did that when they decided to bail on australia. no more holdens , no more good fords, all american crap mexico made mustangs, mustangs are crap.
I run my Barra on Avgas..
Green Tops aren't dead..that's just knocking the best Engine ever made in Australia..BUILD IT RIGHT in the FIRST place..
Build it right in the first place is what the whole video is about.
Any unopened na motor boosted is a bad idea. You need to atleast gap the rings.
Depends non how much you want out of it. Yes it's a good idea to gap the rings, but plenty of people have made great power on unopened green top engines.
If only ford Aus just kept making these engines. I'm sure the US and Aus market would keep it alive.
Good common sense video guys.
There's no common sense in anybody who actually thought they will make 1000hp with a stock green top lol! Not gonna lie, I hold you personally responsible for this haha! 😂
@@andydoogz *laughs in $2K BARRA*
I mean. If you can get it cheap and the head is good I suppose it makes some sense.. but smoked rings, scorched valves, and damaged heads.. yikes
They’re now 20 years old haha I own a 2003 ba ute
Not really considering 2js n rbs are going for up to 5k or more and people are still building them lol
Even ls are going for stupid money.
A green top is still a goer but because of their age your gonna need to do at least rings n bearings and possibly have the head recoed or grab an na head ,still good for a budget guy ,it's a good way to get the good rods without the cost of aftermarket rods and or pistons.
If u were doing a big power build then yeah start with an na engine and do everything lol
The point was you can't just grab a Green top and use it "as is" anymore
you guys should have stored a few.....
Seems like the Trash and cash scheme haha
Where can I buy one of those shirts Scotty, that’s awesome
Street Machine website shop
Still good value. For a cheap build. Medium power. It’ll be fine.
Agreed. "I want 1000hp, don't want to spend any money, and want the motor to last forever." Good luck with that.
Sounds like everyone should stick with a SBC. It’s still ok after 50+ years.