The Fallout Show Didn't Retcon New Vegas
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- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2024
- The Fallout Show Didn't Retcon New Vegas
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If Mr House is in New Vegas in the second season wouldn't that make Mr. House's ending canon?
its a flashback sequence. sin claire from dead money is there too
@@TheGLaDOSvideoCore They are talking about the ending I believe which shows New Vegas in the distance. It will be interesting because depending on the state of the city it will say a lot about who won the battle of Hoover Dam.
@@edwinbrown7179I'm talking about 14:32 where Hank is going to see Mr House in New Vegas
I think every ending is cannon because there seem like there is a battle in new vegas
Ceasar victory: Brutality and ppl resist it
NCR victory: NCR weaken and ceasar start another war (Legus or ceasar mention they will take over new vegas in the future)
the coriour victory: somehow he disappear or left so the tribes fight over control
House victory: well something may happen
Yes
The enclave were present at that meeting but watchin from a window, i think Coopers wife even looked up at them during the meeting to see their reaction.
I was wondering about that. It definitely was an odd scene to shoot if there’s not going to be something done after. Agreed it had to be an enclave representative
It's a possibility, but, we don't really know who the shady figure is. There are links between Vault-Tec and the Enclave though, as Kyle had the password for the cold fusion project in hands of the Enclave.
Tbf I thought they could just be the actually heads of vault tec....
could be but the specific shot of someone looking over all the vaults ( including vault tech themselves) makes me think its the enclave.
@@qillqiggins294wasn’t that always a thing? Like since they where introduced it’s been know that the enclave are behind all of the vaults
I feel like Hank did not nuke Shady Sands because his wife ran away. Rather, he found out how developped Shady Sands was when he went after his wife and kids. He then acted according to his Vault Tec directives: take out the competition to ensure the corporation's monopoly on rebuilding civilisation.
Oh I like that a lot more
I thought this was the most logical
And since the Vaults are typically unaprised to the going's on around them, it's entirely possible that they nuked shady sands because they still believed it was the NCR's Capital
That's what I thought as well
Still utter shit
I, for one, agree that it’s ridiculous that a single individual could be responsible for wiping out an entire settlement for selfish reasons. *kicks up feet in Tenpenney Tower Penthouse*
There's a huge difference between 20 people and 30,000 but go off being smug
@@jack-gb3uq How about poisoning the entire Capital Wasteland and beyond through Project Purity?
Classic Bethesda writing.
@@jack-gb3uq and? NCR had over 700,000 people. 30k is like 5% of the faction.
It has nothing to do with selfish reasons, he did it because that's vault text prerogative
Wait till Vault Tec hears about synthetic people being made out in boston
The show takes place 9 years after fo4 so it looks like the BoS or minuteman ending was the real ending.
@@Chris-wn3vr Didn't Bethesda asked the People behind the TV show to not make any Ending Canon
The institute is destroyed by the time the show takes place. Maxson sent all the schematics for T60 and the airship west, so either BoS won or Minutemen won.
@@jvazacas The Brotherhood have more Airships than one
@MrVictor1227 East Coast Brotherhood created the Prydwin. The West Coast had Vertibirds not an air ship dude
The show is setting up Vault-Tec being connected to the Enclave with the knowledge the Doctor had of Lucy and her Vault.
That would make a lot of sense tbf
Hope not, it'd be too lineal
Enclave has to be enemies of the Corpo guys
It's not too far fetched
They already were connected before the show as well.
I also hope not, at least not so obviously.
Plus I'm still wondering how Lee Maldover survived.
My reading of the Ghouls is that losing their sense of identity or extreme mental stress is what makes them feral. The lady repeating "My name is Martha" strongly hints at it. Like she's trying to keep herself anchored. I think the vials are a chemical treatment for something like dimentia and somebody quickly realised it was a bit of a cheat code towards not going feral. The Ghoul bounty hunter probably has a lot of internal trauma he is covering up so the chemical option is realistically his only option. Or on a long enough timeline, chemical is the only option regardless maybe.
The ghoul thing makes sense with a fresh nuking, but honestly only the rad x and that's it
We don't know anything about what have been researched over here in the later years wrt the ghoulification process. Like FEV, wasn't it supposed to be "by dipping" only, then later there were experiments with aerosolizing it? I have a feeling the "cure all" stuff is based on FEV; he's not turning into a ghoul but a super mutant. Note that I'm not that well versed in the lore (FO3, FONV, FO4 only).
Ghouls degrade over time. They are all destined to go feral, just depends on your own personal genetics, radiation etc
Theyre warding off the feral-ness by taking rad x/radaway.
They are immune to radiation but the more they’re exposed to it, the ‘shorter’ time they have before going feral.
My issue is that the lucky 38 isn’t lit up
@@onyxrafle8066it was really really red and cloudy... DEAD MONEY SECRET ENDING???? ELIJAH MY LOVE
@@Tacdelio Fallout DUST canon. Rip HANK, he won't last a day.
My bets on the Tunnelers. Them overrunning or ruining New Vegas would be a great way to get around mentioning which ending the game had.
It’s day time, the strip barely ever has their lights on when the sky isn’t dark because they have limited power!!!!! what’s the PROBLEM
in the ending shot where nothing has ever even had a candle in the window for all 8 episodes of the series?
How did NCR or Unity not know about those vaults? Their entrances are in plain sight, 33 is located right outside of LA, how would any of those two factions miss it?
Because the player character defeated the master before they could find any more vaults. It is really that simple
NCR could know about them. But would they try to enter them? Likely endangering people within?
@@exilestudios9546are you aware vault 33 is in the middle of NCR territory? They would enter that vault by force.
@@gdc4736 dude, how? Those things were made to withstand nuclear explosions.
@@jvazacas This is true but if you were a big government and you had all these vaults around your territory, wouldn't you have constant surveillance on the entrance? Maybe they did, I've only seen to ep5 of the show.
How is Mr House now being directly involved with instigating the Great War not a retcon?
To be fair, in his mannerisms and from what he says House seems completely uninterested in their plot.
He probably wasn’t. He was there for an investor meeting and he got enough information to not want to be a part of it. While Vault-Tec was underground he wants to build up New Vegas’ anti-missile defenses and be an untouched city on the surface. If anything this is the reason he became so focused on preserving New Vegas.
That's the reason why he was prepared and had a system that kept Vegas from being nuked.
@@isaiahd2123 No it wasn't. It was because he calculated down to within 20 hours when WW3 was going to start. Except that now according to the show it was because he was literally in the room when they planned it. That's a huge change to his character and totally recontextualizes his conversations with the Courier. The literal definition of a retcon.
@@joeyjojoshabbadoo8153 It doesn't matter how interested he was, he's still involved with Vault Tec's plan.
Only things that bothered me is that not one BOS member had an energy weapon and that you didn't even get to see any energy weapons being used.
Yeah i know it sucks
Probably too expensive to cgi
It is odd not to see even one lousy laser or plasma pistol. I chalk it up to saving up on cgi costs and trying to make the show less like space battles and more visceral and grounded with traditional bullets.
At the very least tho I wished BOS with a Minigun.
I'm pretty sure theres a shot of muldaver walking out the front door of her "headquarters" with a laser pistol in her hand, heading out to fight the BoS. But i never saw her fire it. And i think we also see enclave guards holding laser rifles in episode 2.
Ngl energy weapons are more of the BOS thing on the east
Biggest retcon is clearly the relocation of shady sands.
Doesn't change much really.
@Hero_Of_Old I believe the og Shady Sands was north of Los Angeles, and it was a lot bigger than implied in the show, so maybe there are two different Shady Sands
@@YOGI-kb9tg Actually it changes a LOT. Because the show seems to think Shady Sands is in LA? But LA was the Boneyard in Fallout 1. Which was already blown up once when the Master was destroyed in FO1.
In game, Shady Sands is probably where the city (lol, I've been there, it's really a town) of Lone Pine is today in the Owens valley in East California. That's 200+ miles to LA from there by car on the highway. Traveling there by foot would undoubtedly be more circuitous and take longer due to rougher terrain (you'd have to go over the southern portions of the Sierra Nevada mountain range foothills).
Wrote this under a different comment, but an easy fix would be for the show to mention there being an “Old Shady Sands”.
From that, we can infer that the NCR decided to rename a portion of the Boneyard to Shady Sands and declare that the new capital.
As for the “First Capital” part, it can just be taken as symbolic - not literal.
I’m reaching, here, but 🤷♂️
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe the show isn't a 1 to 1 to the games so small discrepancies can be forgiven and again this show was made for new people with little to no knowledge not hard core fans who track every single square foot of distance between locations.
I think Muldaver just hired raiders to storm 33 because she didnt want to risk NCR manpower on an op like that. She just needed expendable bodies to make a big enough mess that she could extract Hank, no sense risking even 1 trained NCR soldier when you can offer out caps to raiders that you may or may not even have to pay
agreed, those people were wild and in no way resembled the people at her settlement
I think this is 100% the case. She's almost CIA coded. Like she's trying to manipulate the local area and conduct operations to soften up resistance or make it plausible for the NCR to conduct a full military operation. Maybe her superiors needs proof that Shady Sands is salvageable before they risk manpower colonizing it. Turning the lights back on might be casus belli for sending troops in to push the brotherhood and other factions out.
also wouldnt be the first time the NCR did some sketchy shit. Bitter Springs is a good example.
Yes she promised the loot and pillage to raiders and her asking just for Hank.
@@thomaslacornette1282 Smart, she wouldnt even have to front any caps that way. "Come with me and anything you find in there is yours!"
Shady sands got teleported over 300 kilometres southwest, that alone is a big deal that goes into retconn territory
It's literally just a TV show created by Amazon prime...........😅😅😅
Why can't people just be happy that we at least got something... 😅😅
@@MrZambrano101it's just a TV show created by Amazon Prime and Bethesda, that they claim is canon
@@MrZambrano101that's why the quality has been going down at least since Skyrim, because at least we got something
@@MrZambrano101consoomer mindset
*Edited*
The 'fall' being marked at 2277 is an annoying way to write this piece of the lore. It's not illogical in thinking that the bomb hit Shady Sands after 2281, but this detail doesn't even compare to the obvious discrepancies in the lore.
Someone please explain to me when ghouls need to take an (unexplained?) chem to not go feral? That has never at any point been a thing.
Edit: THIS IS STILL ONE OF THE MOST CRIMINAL THINGS IN FALLOUT.
Power armor CAN NOT fly like a damn iron man suit, seriously what the hell was that?
Since when did ghouls survive life threatening injuries like an arrow through the neck?
How did The Master not know of Vaults 31-33, for all intents and purposes he should have found those Vaults, they're essentially in his backyard during his time, not to mention how simple it would have been to find 33, considering where the entrance is located.
When did The Brotherhood start acting more like a cult than a military? They're using the word 'lord' now, since when was that a thing?
Edit: So this isn't all that far of a stretch after remembering what the Brotherhood originally were. I got caught up in Lyon's Pride nostalgia and how based elder Owyn's decision to go rouge was.
Why did non feral ghouls' voices not sound damaged?
Honestly, Fallout 4 started the massive shift and confusion to the lore as a whole, this season of the show was a very poorly written show in terms of explaining the lore and timeline. Honestly the chalkboard isn't even the biggest piece of wack writing I saw from this show to seemingly change things to financially benefit Bethesda's vision for Fallout. Fallout isn't Fallout anymore, and it's a franchise being held together by a community of passionate fans and a very massive modding community. There's too much to delve into for a true assessment of the canon we have now. All this show as done is prove how poorly written Fallout is now, and these arguments about the lore prove it.
For what it's worth, as a TV show, it's not bad. Walton Goggins absolutely killed his role.
I mean, the Master's super mutants were not the brightest bulbs in the box.
Maybe they did find 31-32-33, and just couldn't get in. Wouldn't be the first time.
The Brotherhood was always a quasi-religious cult, and it would be really silly to pretend otherwise, but I agree with the rest of your points.
@@TheKolboShow Not to the level of the show. The whole brotherhood stuff is very confused.
I felt the same way. I personally believe this show was originally suppose to replace the game. I don’t believe what Todd said about it not being a replacement. At first (before Microsoft bought the franchise) I think Todd planned to use the show as a cheap way to produce fallout content? But after they got bought by Microsoft things changed. The lore feels like it’s in limbo and it pissed me off how all the interviewers didn’t ask real questions. Like what happened to the timeline and what is cannon and what isn’t? How did fallout 4 end, what happened in new Vegas? But no they just asked cheesy bs questions.
@@video-luver769no they literally were, the lieutenant was a brilliant commander in his army, the dumb super mutants come from wastelanders that were irradiated when they got dipped in the FEV
The thing that really annoys me about the destruction of Shady Sands isn't the fact they did it, but it's the fact that ground zero is just a crater in the perfect shape of a cereal bowl with absolutely no damage past the edge of the crater. There are cars within social distancing limits next to a NUCLEAR DETONATION that still have unshattered glass windows.
Bethesda quality design.
Goofy ass cartoon nuclear bomb logic
suspend your disbelief man. i know we all want that. but its hollywood we are talking about here, at the beginning of the episode when the bombs explode during the bday party the glass explodes behind them, but the ppl are relatively fine. not even a shockwave push.
this is more a presentation nitpick more than an actual concern.
This entire show disregards the visual aspect of the Fallout series. It's one of the cleanest looking post apocalypses I've ever seen. You could eat off of The Ghoul's face.
It just works
One inconsistency (not so much a retcon as a narrative choice really) is that they have the bombs dropping mid-afternoon. In Fallout 4 it happened morning Eastern Time which would be early morning or pre-dawn on the west coast
This is true, although it is possible the bombs dropped several hours later on the west coast and word never made it to them about what happened in the east, as most everything had been destroyed.
I've thought about this and I agree it's weird. The only way that MAYBE they could explain it is if maybe they Enclave/Vault Tec decided to prevent the news from reaching the west until the last minute to maximise panic? Seems bizarre though.
@@BearusAurelius The great war only lasted a couple of hours.
@Sorel2020 were you there to see it ? 😂
@@michaelcollins2319 It's in the lore, it lasted 2 hours.
Biggest problem for me was that was supposed to be Frederick Sinclair in that meeting lol. Why is he the rep for Big MT? He only made a deal with them lol. I also think he's just not what he's described as in Dead Money here. I know he's a billionaire but his characterization in Dead Money makes his story almost tragic and it's hard to see that man described in game as this big fat cat talking about doing horrible experiments in the vaults. So unless he changed towards the end of the war it just seems off. It's really confusing because House's representation is borderline perfect. The way he acts at the meeting fits him so well. He doesn't care, he doesn't even offer any ideas for vaults and it's clear his smug aura is because he's already predicted the end of the war and these morons are now literally telling him "We're gonna drop the bomb" which would directly lead to him focusing entirely on his plan for Vegas.
House's depiction isn't that good in the show in fnv he talks about how he predicted it and how he didn't have enough time to finish his plans but if he was invited to a meeting that proved without a doubt that the bombs where going to drop wouldn't that then give him enough time to then finish his plans.
10:53 A new group of writers taking their first crack at writing for an established IP should not be blowing up classic locations. No one has ever pulled that off.
The House and Sinclair Moment was fun, but them being on board with starting the war kinda breaks their Lore with both their plans being cut short by the war starting, with House wanting the Platinum Chip Delivered, and Sinclair having the Grand Opening Gala later that Day.
Both could make sense. Maybe House knew the war was coming, especially with being at that meeting, and wanted the Chip to arrive before they orchestrated it? As with Sinclair, the only reason I could see why he'd be on board is maybe to keep Vera in the Madre/Villa or to get rid of Dean Domino?
I think the bombs went off sooner than anyone expected. Barb seems quite keyed into whats happening and why. So why would Barb let her daughter be off at a birthday party when it happened?
They could have been double crossed and not told when the bomb would drop, also vaulted could have dropped the ball and either China or U.S. could have just said f*ck it
WAAAATTTT. I can't explain Sinclair. But House was on board?
I don't think so. Remember he says he had people in important places, which is why he KNEW it was going to happen. I don't think he agreed to the business deal. I think he was like "...So this is how its going to happen? I better get ready myself."
He was the only one not blurting out suggestions for experiments.
@@jeramiethegreat987 The first explosions was underground, for sure.
So while not 100% guaranteed that it was Vault-Tec, it seems pretty likely.
It DEFINITELY wasn't China though, and I can't imagine The Enclave's motivations.
Amazon's Fallout series is a perplexing project that is simultaneously a labor of love and intense fidelity to detail, and yet a gigantic middle finger to long-time fans of this series that callously and idiotically annihilates all of the world-building done in West Coast Fallout games.
For those who don't know (which includes the show's writers), the New California Republic isn't just Shady Sands. It's consists of five states including Maxson, Dayglow, Los Angeles, Hub and Shady, with a combined population of 700,00. And this was a country with a military force large enough to defeat the Enclave at Navarro and the Brotherhood of Steel at Helios One. And that's canon to the timeline of Fallout New Vegas.
New Vegas also tells us that most of the places in Fallout 2's map are under the banner of the NCR as of 2281, including Redding, New Reno, Modoc, Vault City, Klamath, and Arroyo. The Den and Gecko are probably in NCR hands too. Yet the show mentions none of these places. Even if Shady Sands was nuked, this wouldn't destroy the NCR, and even if all of the states of the NCR fractured, seceded, or fought a civil war or something like that, and the NCR ceased to exist as a governing body, all of these places would still exist. The West Coast has more less been civilized for about a century.
Did the show's writers understand any of this? Did they ever play the first two games, or bother to research what the NCR actually consists of? Apparently not.
Nor does the show give us any sense of geography. The scenes in the Namibian desert are visually terrific, but it doesn't look like California, or help to establish where exactly the characters are traversing. Shady Sands is located near the Nevada border, a great distance away from L.A., but you would never know this from the show.
And the inhabitants of this wasteland? They are mostly miserable solitary stragglers in the middle of nowhere, like the sorts of people you might meet in The Road, The Walking Dead, The Last of Us, or a Mad Max parody like Six-String Samurai. There is no sense that anyone has built anything, formed an community or a culture, or made a living doing anything aside from scavenging. The only settlement we find is Philly, which is the sort of trash palace inspired by Megaton and Junktown, but the details on this place are sketchy. Who is in charge here? Where does the trade and commerce come from? We glimpse a Brahmin and see tomatoes on sale, so some agriculture is going on, but where is that?
This might make sense in a recent apocalypse, but this is supposed to be 219 years later. Like in the Bethesda Fallout games, the people of this wasteland have apparently done nothing for two centuries except squat in ruins and live off scavenged food and supplies, which apparently never runs out. All of the West Coast Fallout games knew better and did better, and the ways their settlements worked were explained and justified in game.
The Fallout games made by Obsidian and Black Isle at least understood that the "wasteland" phase of the post-apocalypse wouldn't last indefinitely. Indeed, Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas take place well into the "frontier" phase of the post-apocalypse. The question in these games isn't as much about the survival of mankind anymore so much as what sort of society is worth creating. The regional arc of Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas was impressive in that it took the consequences of each preceding game seriously. The payoff of playing these games was in working toward a narrative conclusion that showed how your actions influenced the places you interacted with long after your story is concluded. The payoff of a Bethesda Fallout game is the primary loop of activity in the solipsistic Skinner box they've designed to keep you playing as long as possible.
The Bethesda Fallout game, of course, were never much interested in the question of what sort of societies would emerge from the ashes of a world devastated by nuclear war as much as they were interested in the ashes themselves. This always bothered me, but I could live with it, because they never touched the West Coast--until now, that is. But I'm sure destroying and ignoring everything on this side of the canon is totally worth it--just like killing off Hicks and Newt at the start of Alien 3, or John Connor at the start of Terminator Dark Fate. Right?
This comment is based. This was cathartic to read thank you.
I tried to ramble something similar to this in my own video on the subject, but your comment is much more eloquent. Well said!
you put it into words, my guy. this deserves a pin for being the absolute truth on this. shills and people just desperate for any new fallout content be damned, Bethesda really doesn't get fallout.
This has too much work put in it for it to remain a RUclips comment. Please repost on one of the subreddits.
You're giving a lot of uneeded flak in trying to explain this difference between bethesda's fallout and obsidian's fallout. It's a philosophical difference, it's not as objective as you make it seem.
the "vials" are RadX. On prime video, they have a "Lore" page which shows these vials close up and its RadX.
Ooooh, and Rad-X is what increases radiation resistance.
That ties into the theories of Rachael from Kiddie Kingdom at Nuka-World that prolonged radiation exposure is what contribute to going feral.
The rad-x lore on prime video shows radioactive barrells and only mentions pills. Not sure what you think you read about, but there's not a single picture or mention of the vials in the lore section.
@@choseuntel the vials literally say “Rad X” what?
@@choseuntel also they literally retconned shady sands and about 50 other things, I wouldn’t put it past them to do it to rad x too.
@@BLACKopzplayer2009 Do they? I'mma need to rewatch the show, I litterally thought nothing was written on them
They sorta did cannonize the ending for Fallout 4, The Brotherhood mentions "The High Clerics in the Commonwealth" so the Brotherhood ending is looking to be cannon
No it’s just as possible that the minutemen ending is canon.
Which would be unfortunate, if only because I am very much anti-synth(the gen 3 ones anyway).
@@changvasejarik62 The minutemen ending involves blowing the prydwen out of the sky. How could that be canon?
@@outdoormedic813 I meant the peaceful ending.
@@outdoormedic813thats only if you kill maxon. You can defeat the Institute and just leave the brotherhood and railroad alone.
@@outdoormedic813it doesn’t, destroying the brotherhood is optional, you can do the minutemen ending without blowing them up.
All ghouls clearly don't need that stuff, a kid was locked in a fridge for over 200 years and wasn't feral
In fallout 1 ghouls die without water. In fallout 4 kid is locked in the fridge without any water or food and for 200 years, noone stops by to open it even though the kid screams for help. The point is - fallout 4 is not canon.
@@gaviewmahat4802 The point is, which Ghoulish level that kid have. We see there're ghoul as weak as the classic Zombie and there're ghoul that can withstand even a nuke in the face then heal right back up.
@@gaviewmahat4802it’s stated he was drinking rad water that leaked through the cracks in the fridge
Fallout 4 retcons tons of lore. Dont look at that game for any sort of proof of anything.
@@Salmagrosthey're still ghouls either way. The only reason they still look more "human" in modern fallout was back in fallout 3. It doesn't change the fact that fallout 4 retconned the ghouls dont need any necessities like food or water. Just admit that barhesda has shitty writing
You can’t imply all endings. Either robots, ncr or legion is going to patrol the Mojave
well it looked dead as fuck when hank looked over it so maybe elijah won.
I mean the easiest thinmg to see is if House is alive if it is he won if not someone else did even if they lost later... Which the show may not let us see who is in charge or house straight up vanished and no one knows where he is or his status.
Or Tunnelers made the entire area too hostile for anyone to stay too long. That way it doesn't really matter who actually won Hoover Dam.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough House wanted to save Vegas (and New Vegas) and take humanity to space. If we get to New Vegas, House is alive but everyone else is gone, then House failed.
Tunnelers are obviously the superior lifeform
Didn’t Tiberius Rancor nuke the NCR? Does this mean Fallout the Frontier is canon now? 😂😂😂
😭
Hell naw 😭
(I think the lonesome road ending where the courier nukes both sides is canon, and yes, I think Hank MacLean is the courier)
That would be preferable
@@theIRS1that's probably the worst theory I've heard so far lol
I KNEW IT. he was always a kidder
If shady sands was destroyed before fallout new vegas, then that confirms that the ncr wasnt destroyed when they lost their capital. Chances are the made a new shady sands for their new capital and just refer to it instead of the original. The raiders we see in the show seem to be the survivors of the destroyed shady sands and they also seem fully detached from the main ncr, like the outcasts from the brotherhood of steel
The ncr also has places like New Reno or Vaultcity.
2277 could be referring to the election of Aaron Kimball. It could be someone saying that Kimball's expansionism was the beginning of the end for the NCR, and the moment he took office was when the government in Shady Sands "fell" from grace.
Although, I can and will be PISSED if they choose to kill off the NCR entirely. They are the ultimate OGs of the fallout franchise, and were such a good analogy for the human spirit, it would make me VIOLENTLY ANGRY if they choose to kill the flawed wasteland democracy that was the NCR in favor of more small group with fancy guns. And if that's what they decide to do, because they only want to tell stories that end in dark gloomy failure, then FUCK TOD HOWARD and FUCK the FUCKING BROTHERHOOD.
I think the likelyhood of the NCR collapsing due to the destruction of the capital is very unlikely. Maybe a significant blow but they had to have a chain of command and could have fallen back to further consolidate with the loss of their major industrial hub. But I also do hate the NCR, so part of me hopes that they don't last.
The issue is that the NCR should have fallen due to it's own weight and power. The NCR grew too big, it grew too fast and it spread itself thin. it should have collapsed by it's own issues. Not the Executive dude dropping a FUCKING NUKE ON SHADY SANDS.
Nuking Shady Sands (which is now in LA for some reason, making Fallout 1 make no sense) wouldn't kill the NCR. The NCR had other larger cities, a whole military....
But that's what happened. The Nuke on shady sands simply was the catalyst and a explanation as to why it happened so quickly. Despite its issues, the NCR would not have fallen in the next 50 years after New Vegas without any major events happening, it was simply too powerful and well established
perhaps those reasons will also be mentioned in the second season they might have not wanted to add so many new details for the new viewers so it would not complicate things too much
@@jomckellan But that doesn't even make sense in the context of the show you're defending?
Vault-Tec nuked them so they couldn't run things, but they're still going strong everywhere else...?
Why are they reduced to raider-esque people rather than regrouping in this supposed enclave.
Your defense is that the incredibly stupid decision didn't actually wipe out the faction, they're just hiding and it's not mentioned.
he nuked shady sands because his ex wife was there. Not to destroy the ncr, but to destroy her.
So president Kimball flew from Shady Sands, a radioactive crater, to give a speech in nevada then he flew back to Shady Sands, a radioactive crater?
Lol this destroys all of the coping
The NCR capital was moved to boneyard, but loud mouthed whiners conveniently forget that little tid-bit of info; probably because they wouldn't have anything to cry about otherwise
Lets see how they try to explain this one lol
Because Shady Sands is bombed after the events of NV, not in 2277. The chalkboard shows and arrow thats past the date. It is weird that there is no solid date given or else that would clear so much up.
Not quite but okay @@TheRandomSandwiches
In regards to your retcon about about Vault Tec kicking off the war, in EP8 around the 19 minute 30 second-ish mark you see Cooper's wife get a notification on her Pip Boy and someone overlooking the meeting from the shadows above, this very well could have been the US Government as we didn't get any clarification of this figure to mu knowledge.
The Enclave totally could have used Vault-Tec to start the war.
And if it had all failed, that's plausible deniability right there.
@video-luver769 in fallout 3 the nuke in megaton has the vault tec logo on it. I thought they were reusing textures or something but it all makes sense now
why does Sinclair look like Gizmo? thats what I want to know
Okay but WHY is Sinclair the representative of Big MT? Shouldn't be Klein or Mobius the ones?
Because Sinclair is one of the top peeps who ran the experiments with
@@manuelmoralez2257no, experiments were ran using Sinclair. He had no idea they were happening.
It makes zero sense for him to be present
@@manuelmoralez2257 Is that stated anywhere in the game?
Why is mantis liking this, this is straight up not true.
@@lukescrew1981 actually yes at old world blues they used him for money and experiments
The *real* problem with the NCR getting nuked is it sets the precedent that Vault-Tec could just do that to any other faction that gets too big - that becomes a "competitor" - thus making factions/civilization growth feel meaningless, and any other big faction that ever pops up in the future is gonna automatically come with "insert countdown to getting nuked by Vault-Tec here!"
It makes me lose interest in the BoS if it could just get nuked by Vault-Tec at any point. The Legion? Would have ended up getting nuked. The Enclave? Would just get nuked (I don't personally subscribe to the theory that the Enclave and Vault-Tec are in cahoots). Basically, no one matters anymore. Having a powerful "unseen puppeteer" like Vault-Tec working behind the scenes like it's playing with toys just invalidates anything that happens in the actual wasteland.
It doesn't even feel right thematically: remember the line "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows"? It woulda made sense for the NCR to collapse under its own weight like NV hinted at, but in the show it gets nuked *because* the NCR was working! It so doesn't feel right to me.
I think Shady Sand getting too big wasn't the main catalyst to the decision of nuking the city. I think mainly its just freakin Hank's bitterness because his wife thinks NCR is better than Vault. Thats why he maybe convinced Vault Tec or just nuked the city by himself.
@@ChibaBanana lmao that would be SO much worse 😂. "Yeah, let's have this absolute *nobody* of a character be responsible for nuking one of the most important factions in the Fallout franchise - AND the most iconic location in the franchise too - and for utterly inane reasons as well!" That is utter insanity to me. I loved the show, it's SUPER good, but WHAT were they thinking with this.
@@volpe2077Divorced dad behavior.
Hmmm with BoS I don’t think that line of thinking applies since the centralised authority of the NCR makes it acutely vulnerable. Whereas the BoS has undergone region-based extinctions or downturns and managed to return to power through their decentralized structure. I do hope they add a caveat that these nuclear weapons are hard to capture or at least scarce, since then nothing stands in the way of the enclave and they could nuke their way through any faction even the BoS.
The BoS would have to completely change as an organization to be anything other than basically a huge pmc operation. They aren't nation building material and neither was the enclave, no threat really. Doomed to fail.
The events of the series means New Vegas couldnt have happened, simple as.
Stop defending corporations, bad writting, and people that couldnt be bothered to actually think up and research to do a nice continuation.
i wonder how much todd payed for this 30 min ad
It's ok to like things.
@@TheFireGiver No it's not. You can only like FO 1, FO 2, and maaaybe NV.
Now excuse me while I look up 100 more videos on RUclips having the audacity to like something I don't like so I can spend my time complaining about those too.
@@commandershepard9920 touch grass
I always figured that Shady Sands would be destroyed eventually, by a strong opposing force or even a civil war. My biggest issues are these:
1) Obviously, the date. How can NCR be so powerful in 2281if their capital city was nuked 4 years earlier?
2) How did some Vault-Tec executive from 200 years ago get his hands on a nuke? Ulysses had to go through Hell and back to get all that he needed to awaken the Divide.
3) Why does a single city being destroyed mean that the entire NCR falls apart? It's not like the United States would collapse overnight if DC was blown up.
Those are just the problems I have with Shady Sands, I haven't even gotten into Vault-Tec being the ones who started the War or that Mr. House was complacent and participated in it. And of course, the fact that they ripped the plot straight from Resident Evil: The Final Chapter is a huge gripe.
you are everywhere swear I saw you on reddit
They never said the NCR collapsed forehead, Their capital was destroyed that's all.
I don't think Mr. House was complacent or participated, if anything it makes his story stronger. He knew for a FACT that the world was going to be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust, whether by the war or if the peace talks had been successful, Vault-Tec.
He's the only one that doesn't join in on brainstorming Vault experiments and he ends the meeting by chiding everyone
>How can NCR be so powerful if their capital was destroyed?
In real life the British empire captured and burnt Washinton DC to the ground in 1814.
America ended up winning the war and is currently a (relatively) unchallenged super power.
In 390 bc the Gauls sacked and pillaged the city of Rome. 350 years later, Julius Caesar led his campaign in Gaul where by his own estimate he “killed one third, enslaved one third and subjugated one third” of the entire Celtic population.
Rebounds can and do happen.
The destruction of capital cities does not mean the destruction of the empire. It’s happened in real life, why can’t it happen in fiction? The real problem is, if this happened before NV, then why does everyone talk about SS in that game as if it still exists? Did they just build a new shady sands somewhere else? Did they try to rebuild it and abandoned it because of problems with radiation? It raises a lot of profoundly stupid and unnecessary questions.
if i recall correctly from NV and you can even see this in the show shady sands was no longer the capital of the NCR by the time it got nuked they mention this in NV that the capital was moved and it no longer holds much if any real importance and even in the show on the billboard for the town it said "first capital of the new californian republic"
Be a hell of a twist if the Lone Wanderer nuked Shady Sands, during Mothership Zeta.
I would have preferred that or the courier rather than some random vault tech guy jealous his wife left him
That would have been hilarious, turning the most hated DLC into the big twist. x] I wouldn't mind tbh if they made the aliens look less stupid.
@@DinkLover69 It's the most hated DLC? I thought it was alright... Can't stand anything more than a swing through Point Lookout, in my case.
@@Umbra_Ursus Just going by people's tier lists. I didn't mind Zeta but it's always at the bottom, while Point Lookout gets A tier.
@@JohnDoe-sl6diThat's not why it happened though. Vault-Tec wanted themselves to be the only people left on the planet to reshape it and the NCR was obviously the biggest obstacle to that. I mean come on, that's literally the exact same plan the Enclave had in Fallout 2. Hell, in Van Buren it was going to be revealed the Enclave nuked San Francisco in retaliation for the Oil Rig being destroyed, that's probably where they got all these ideas from. You can criticize it for reusing that plot point, but you can't say it's just about "muh wife," that's disingenuous.
Mantis looks like the big lebowski minus all the charisma and likableness.
The whole “Vault-Tec started the Great War” thing is so stupid.
better than the alternatives
I agree but it’s not confirmed, just Vault tec admitting they want the Great War to happen
@@adamjensen2304 It’s really not though.
Very stupid, retarded I think. Obviously, we will never know because that’s the point, but in my opinion I believe it was communist China, who started the war. They were the only ones with “reasons” to do so.
It's probably not even true in the end. Like they intended to, yes. But the fact that Coop and his daughter were at a rich family birthday when the bombs dropped is not something her mom would have allowed her daughter to be out there if it was VT's bomb.
They likely got beaten to the punch by another actor in the end.
The bigger retcon is of all civilisation from South California. Only Shady Sands got nuked. The Hub? Necropolis? Did every other city die of cringe when they deleted the ncr from the lore?
Vault City, New Reno, Junktown...hell even Gecko are silent.
Somehow, the Enclave and Brotherhood returned. Somehow, the NCR and Legion departed.
There is so much to cover in only so much time, I'm sure there will be a lot more NCR exposition in season 2.
THEY NEVER FUCKING SAID THE NCR COMPLETELY COLLAPSED, people like you really need to quit your yappin.
@jomckellan the brotherhood never left?
I havent watched the show yet, but its only the first season, fallout “fans” need to chill XD
How did Vault 33 SURVIVE THE MASTER?
Simple: the master didn't know where vault 33 was
Because the player character in fallout 1 defeated the master and his super mutant army. It really is that simple.
@@dinodude6992 He was fused into a mainframe that had a list of every vault.
@@exilestudios9546 The location of the Vault 33 and 32 say otherwise.
@@insanehippiehippieinsane3828
Was it ever mentioned where vault 13 was?
technically, we only know vault tec *intended* to drop the bomb first
Why is nobody talking about the fact the 1st Battle of Hoover Dam happened in 2277? The Mojave Campaign against the Legion started in 2277. The NCR were been on a downward slope since then. The Fall of Shady Sands could mean the start of the Mojave Campaign.
The vault tec dropping the nukes is the easy one to explain - If they want to.
Just say vault tec were planning to deploy the bombs but the war happened first on its own anyway. It even fits with house not getting the platinum chip on time, since he was on that meeting where It was decided vault tec would do It. He then went to prepare but then...
Also if we really wanna think about it and go into stuff lore wise, Pre-War folks where fucking crazy, and alot of them had their hands deep into shady stuff, so I could see someone from pre-war america having access to certain things a regular ol Wastelander wouldnt
No , if House knew when it was gonna happen he woulda had the chip on time and wouldn't have to rely on calculations.
Also it would explain why they didn't let the vault under diamond City finish construction
just retcon the most important theme of the fallout series to appease china
This would actually make a lot of sense because remember Cooper Howards (The Ghouls) wife was super important in vault tec. If they did drop the bombs, why the hell was her husband and DAUGHTER OUT AND ABOUT???
That's Fredrick Sinclair?!?!?! What the fuck!?!?! He's not the spokesman/head of/or anything but a buyer and a financial backer. That actually makes me feel bumm3d out. It should've been an actual Big MT spokesman. Not the guy who loved vera Keyes and had a vault built to keep her safe. I'm calling shit on them for this.
Dead Money is the best DLC
AFter seeing this "show" Im reinstalling FNV just to purge the BoS from the Wasteland.
Why would it be a scientist? This sort of thing would be attended by an investor
@@libertyprime2013shhhh don't dude, just let them cry and vent and enjoy the show and games lol
@@MLPDethDealr32 I did that in the first game. It's the only game where wiping out the BOS actually feels like a challenge.
@@libertyprime2013Sinclair was not an investor and was simply a consumer buying Big MT technology. Big MT was a scientific research facility contracted by the military to use new experimental technology in warfare. Due to Sinclair's connections with big figures in the entertainment industry he was able to land an agreement to purchase Big MT technology. Sinclair was a VICTIM of their experiments. Big MT knowingly released "the cloud" on the Sierra Madre casino and with Sinclair completely unaware of it being their creation went back to big MT asking for a solution. They then supplied him with another experiment the prototype hazmat suit. Sinclair shouldn't be at that executive meeting and the amount of people i see trying to say otherwise is ridiculous.
I think Hank will be in for a big surprise when expects Mr. House, and instead meets the Courier and Yes Man.
The way it's looking I don't think the courier ever existed 😢
@@DrHarryZhang The courier is 100% canon, wtf are you talking about.
I don't think they are gonna show any player character.
@@swissarmyknight4306 just like how fallout 1 and 2 were canon...
I HAVE THE ANSWER!!
Hear me out! The key to the dates is the age of Lucy! There is a specific line in episode five minute 18:05, where Lucy is describing what it was like to look up at the sun with her mother. Lucy stated that she was four years old when she was looking up at the sun with her mother, you can see her in episode 8 minute 30:05. Now if Lucy is 18 years old when she leaves the vault, this is assuming that she reaches legal age to get married, that would mean the bombs fell on Shady Sands 14 years prior to her leaving the vault. This would make the year 2282.
Right but Lucy’s mother went missing in 2277 didn’t she?
The show states that it takes place 219 years after the bombs dropped.
@@austinsultenfuss7661 in vault 4 there is a blackboard that says Shady sands got nuked the same year.
@@crystallkingh3048which makes it 2296. If it fell in 2277 there’s a 19 year gap. If he was 10 at the time it’d put him at 29. Even if he was 7 it’d mean he’d be 26. Now if the bombs fell in 2282 then it aligns more with the characters ages
"Up until I was about six" she never said she was 4 during that time (Episdee 5, 17:55). Also, if she is 18 then that means she was 8 when she started doing "cousin stuff" in preparation for the "real thing" (Episode 1, 9:97), which we can obviously assume she's referring to bonking her cousin. Make of that what you will. Also, the plague of 77 in episode 4 (minute 6:40) seemingly coincides with the nuke (dialogue and flashback of episode 8, starting at 29:20), or at least that's the impression the show is trying to give us, so the nuke had to have been either in 2277, or very close to that time, not years after the fact.
they would have saved a lot if they had simply set the date to 2282 instead of 2277
I think this is alot of the reason people are coming up with conspiracy theories about Bethesda hating the west coast. It is such a bizarre thing to add/mess up. They could've set the dates to anything.
@@macaronibingbamboni5975 The Vault from the show should of been raided by The Master or the Enclave due to its location.
@@insanehippiehippieinsane3828 The Enclave would have thought it already fell into chaos and was overrun by random monsters after their overseers and everything was slaughtered.
I think someone in the prop department messed up. When you google “NCR nuked” one of the things that come up is 2277 which is referring to the divide
@@libertyprime2013that would make a little sense if they just looked up some basic information and assumed that the ncr was nuked then
You forgot to mention the Enclave is still alive!
GLORY TO THE ENCLAVE
✬E✬
On the moon!
God bless America! God bless the Enclave!
@@bigboss4178 still want to eradicate all the mutants?
@@CatArmyGeneral still want to eradicate all the mutants?
THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS
Would be the best ending to make cannon. It would leave a lot of room for the ncr and outlying factions to still exist even the legion.
My question is, if that's Frederick Sinclair sitting at the table in the Pre-War flashback, then who the hell is the Man standing next to Very Keys in the Mosaic Mural in the Sierra Madre's Lobby? Maybe Dean Domino?
my 3 theories are:
1: it was retconned lol
2: that’s a younger version of freddy, with him being on the mural to “preserve his youth” or something
3: freddy realizes he’s an ugly bastard and decided to just lie on the mural, make him look way way better than he actually is. rich people do it all the time both irl and in fallout
@@homestuckfan8844I feel like your last theory makes the most sense for sure
It's an adaptation. It would have been nice, but he doesn't have to look the same. Maybe they thought having two Howard Hughes/Walt Disney types in the same scene would be distracting, as they already had House, who looks quite similar to the mural.
It's just another retcon bro. Thank Bethesda and Todd Howard, it's what they do best.
Maybe he had a glow-up in between the meeting and when he built the Sierra Madre
You do realize we have pictures of Frederick Sinclair , he was thin , full head of hair , mustache, in his early 30s , you can literally see his picture all throughout dead money. And in the show it’s someone who looks NOTHING like Sinclair .
Show adaptations amirite
Who gives a shit? 😂
That really doesn’t matter
What a response , you could def write for Bethesda.
@@southernSCkidhow someone looks… it doesn’t matter? The way your character looks? Isn’t canon in fallout 1 or 2 if they made a movie about fallout 1 would you still cry about the actor not looking like ur character
next level stupid takes all over
cry more newvegas_troon
Mantis missing the fact the show doesn't explain why the NCR is gone.
It does
@@manuelmoralez2257 Again, what episode since you're exploring the comments saying vague bullshit
They lost their capitol and im sure they fought for territory after. Ironically what would happen after Ceasar dies in NV. No Central command the states broke off and did their own thing.
@@Blank55600 It isn't explained YET
@@Blank55600 what episode? Watch the show and play the games lil bro
Vegas explained the NCR was spread thin so add losses at Vegas plus a nuke you got a dead nation
Shady Sands never had skyscrapers and other stuff from Bethesda games.
The city itself didn't exist before the War (or was a small village)
Also the whole California looks retconed from the original western-style to Boston-like from F4
We don't have images of the pre-war cities in the OG Fallout Games, so we don't know how they looked like
But yeah, Shady Sands was some miles aways from Downtown LA
Nah the fallout 4 cities have pastel colours, the ones in the show are more like the ones in the og games, dark and almost totally destroyed.
Shady Sands was built after the war, Aradesh tells you so. I place it in the vicinity of Darwin, CA. It was originally made of adobe, which is very believable considering the location. I can tell you that between Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, Shady Sands got a whole lot bigger and the buildings got a whole lot taller, so it doesn't really surprise me that it grew more in the subsequent decades.
todd finally found a new way to shit on non-bethesda fallout games.
As a standalone show it's decent. As based on bethesda's games it's really good.
But as a true fallout show it's just piss on the floor.
HOW can New Vegas occur when the chalkboard states the capital city of the NCR got nuked in 2277, four years before the events of New Vegas even took place in 2281, when the NCR soldiers and higher ups keep mentioning Shady Sands like it was still fine? There was no date on the explosion on the chalkboard.
Time is linear, if something happened in the past, then the occurrence is not jumping into the future.
HOW is California a barren featureless desert with no settlements anywhere, when that's NCR's core territory?
HOW did the Master not find three Vaults with doors that were in plain sight, and given he had a database of the Vaults around the Cathedral? Which in Los Angeles!
HOW was Shady Sands in LA, when that was the Boneyard? Shady Sands was several miles farther north, past major locations like the Hub and Junktown?
HOW are we suddenly getting vials that keeps ghouls from turning feral when it's been established ghouls becoming feral is largely a case-by-case basis? Some never go feral, some go feral immediately, some go feral eventually, based on factors like radiation and isolation. Who even made those vials? If they're pre-War, they didn't even know that ghouls were a thing.
WHY was Vault-Tec experimenting with cryogenic freezing in Vault 111 if they already apparently perfected it beforehand?
WHY was Frederick Sinclair representing Big Mountain when he just bought their technology for the Sierra Madre? And why does he look nothing like he was originally meant to? We implying some fatass in his 60's had the capability to pull off that final gambit against Dean Domino when it looks like he wouldn't even fit into the maintenance shafts, let alone have the physical ability to clamber up there? And we're honestly suggesting Vera Keyes had feelings for someone decades older than her?
Fan "headcanons" don't mean jackshit.
My thoughts? This franchise is over and Bethesda and its mindless shills can go fuck themselves.
No fun allowed. Must adhere to strict lore. Must not deviate. Must not be creative. Must know every single thing from the lore. Must keep timelines perfect even if it's super convoluted. Must hate everything. Must not have any joy in my life. Media isn't actually beholden to us, we are slaves to media. Must call anyone who likes the show and defends it a shill. Must be lead in the paint this is why I am like this. Lead paint lead paint lead paint.
Long story short, Bethesda is smug and petty. New Vegas got under their skin so deep, that they are tactically dismantling it so that the franchise is "Bethesda's" Fallout. This is all so the Fallout legacy is that of a Bethesda creation. It's being done now to prepare for the future. Extended universe and videogames.
CD Projekt Red almost did the same thing with Cyberpunk, but luckily several things happened which had seemingly put them back on track. First, they we're publically shamed by the community, then tried to act superior and smug, only to have that approach massively backfire. Second, the creator of the franchise is in charge and really pressured them to get their bearing together or things would not go well. Lastly, they fired the director. Heck, even the Japanese anime company they partnered with refused to be talked down to, and essentially told the company "we write our story, or we are gone," and it worked. Pressure from all angles, and unending community backlash woke them up (and they were really mad about it as well).
Lots of things would have to go right or "wrong" for Bethesda and the Fallout franchise to fix itself, and I don't see that happening until Fallout 5 releases and is a technological and story disaster. Then Microsoft steps in and gives an ultimatum.
Nobody is saying New vegas is not canon. Their saying Shady Sands been nuked before NV makes no sense.
But it wasn't. Look at that timeline again bud. It shows that it "fell" in 2277 the same year as the first battle for hoover damn and the loss of a major trade route to the city and then it's destruction is at some nebulous point after 2277. Let's also not forget that there is a literal billboard that tells us that by the time of its destruction it was no longer the capital of the NCR.
it makes plenty of sense if you actually watched the show, dipshit
@@exilestudios9546 Why would anyone nuke an already fallen city? Also, we hear in NV that Shady Sands is alive and well, so either it fell completely in 2277 or it didn't, hence the contradiction. If it was a gradual decline, we would have heard something about it in NV. But we're specifically told that only the borderlands of their territory is wavering.
I don't think it's a retcon moreso just something the showrunners didn't think through. The amount of hoops people are jumping through to try and explain it is hilarious. The real explanation is that this aspect of the show wasn't thought out very well.
He is a premium Todd Howard meat rider so don't expect good faith takes from him ever
Mostly in that, even if Shady Sands is nuked, there should still be a huge NCR presence and relative security in every surface world location the show is set in.
If they wanted to nuke Shady Sands and say the NCR collapsed into anarchy, fine. But then you'd have to actually *say* that and explain that, and there should have been WAY more raiders and NCR factions battling it out everywhere.
How did the NCR beat the Legion at the Hoover Dam and hold Mojave up until the game's start all while there capital was gone? why is it not mentioned? moral was low with things as they were but now you are telling me their home back home was also gone? what were they even fighting for at that point? why was there no mass pullout order or reports of MASS desertion?
Why was Ulysses trying to destroy a society's trade routes to destroy a society that was already gone?
Capitol doesn't equal an entire country.
@@dumdummcstupid2414 it does when the country is mostly contained within the capitol tho
When they said the fall of the NCR, they probably (hopefully) meant that the NCR's slow fall began in 2277, with the Battle of Hoover dam with the collapse of the NCR dollar, the stretching of their military, corruption, and a demoralized population. The nuke probably went off some time after new Vegas in the 2280's.
I think the 77 year on the chalkboard was a mistake by the prop department. The writing and timeline wouldn’t make sense in show if it happened that year.
Omg people get over a simple date, it's either a continuity error in which case nothing changes nobody in the show is saying the events of New Vegas are taking place with a nuked Shady Sands. Or more likely the people that survived the destruction were recording the date where their society started going to shit, meaning when it started going on wars outside it's borders spending all it's rersources only then to have it's capital nuked.
House can "appear" in season two without invalidating any NV endings. Remember, no one is supposed to meet House in the flesh, not even the courier. It's entirely possible for the show to only show House as a talking dude on a TV screen, the real House could be either dead or alive.
You can literally see him alive, have you not played the game? You would be completely repp-conning it if you said he was just a talking face on the screen. In most ending a you have to “deal” with Mr house by either killing him or unplugging the system and leaving him to die, either way the courier will see him. If you see Mr house the Mr house ending is the cannon.
They didn’t retcon the NCR they just kicked it in the teeth and nuked it. The NCR had a million people, and a social/tech level akin to the turn of the 20th century. Even if something disastrous happens to the capital, even if the NCR ceases to exist as it was, that’s not going to turn into Fallout 1 within a decade or two. And the BOS we see in the show is from Boston, and I think the raiders/NCR weirdness is just an oversight, whatshername is dead, I don’t see much more stuff going on with her.
I think the vault-tek plot is good for the individual story of this show but I think it is bad for the setting’s themes. The apocalypse should be the inevitable product of runaway militarism and toxic nationalism, of the collective hubris of nations of millions,, not the result of a shadowy conspiracy. The wasteland has more meaning when it is all our failts
Shady Sands is still referred to as the NCR's largest city and the capital during FNV. This denial is just sad.
And this show takes place yeaaars after New vegas, wow!
@@Krondon-SSR your point?
2277 is only marked as "Decline of NCR" not "Destruction", and we know by the time of New Vegas the NCR was overextended and in decline years after that, and by the date of the show that leaves a lot of time between the start of the decline and the nuking of Shady Sands
It might seem like a pointless difference but can change quite a bit, it would have helped a lot if they marked the date of the nuke itself, but, being part of a lesson plan for the Vault's current residents it may be something we'll know enough that they know it without it needing to be directly referenced, if we do get a season 2 I hope they clear that up.
Who knows, if we meet Mr. House in the next season he may point that out himself as it inconveniences his own plan to milk the NCR for caps to fund his own ambitions
@@UNSCPILOT It is referred to as the "Fall of Shady Sands" followed by an arrow pointed at a nuclear explosion. The most reasonable explanation is that it was a set design error. You don't teach people the date when a city declined, but then leave out the date for when it was nuked off the face of the earth.
The NCR lied to preserve morale
Damn, Ulysses really out of touch if he thinks that nuking the NCR and the Legion means anything if Shady Sands already got turned into Shady Glass 4 years prior, according to the show.
Yeah, it kinda retcons New Vegas, dude. :/
"But they just didn't know about it!"
"They can't talk over long ranges so how would they know it got nuked??"
My favorite room temperature iq takes so far to that 😂
@@RSK_WMD How is it "room temperature IQ" to postulate those theories?
@@filthycasual8187 because new vegas has several instances of people whom regularly speaking with NCR high command that would be well aware of any event significant enough to be deemed "the fall" of their prime cities as well as the legion having a quite prominent spy network in the west and the legion wouldn't neglect to mock such events 4 years into said "fall" of shady sands.
Then the dense people whom claim they couldn't communicate are ignoring that long range radio communications are a long standing technology in fallout as it was even a thing in the 1940's in real life.
Simple enough or should I write it in crayon with pictures?
@@RSK_WMDyeah the show is as canon as the disney sequels of star wars. the corps can say its canon but i couldnt really give a shit what they say.
@@filthycasual8187The ability to postulate theories online does not make one intelligent. Nor the theories themselves, come to think of it.
Clearly the show is saying Fallout: New Vegas: The Frontier is canon. Specifically the NCR outcast campaign that everyone hated
it's definitely a retconn man. people are getting way too upset over it but nonetheless it's a retconn. shady sands being nuked or the california ncr falling in any other way before the events of new vegas doesn't make any sense at all because it wasn't mentioned once in fnv. constant trade routes are going to and from california in fnv and as far as we know that's where president kimball was situated. it also wouldn't make sense for kimball to just not talk about the capital of their government falling during his speech.
that being said even if it wasn't a retconn and it fit the timeline perfectly bethesda's constant need to hit the reset button on every piece of media in the franchise is getting so old. the constant need to push the marketable lawless and untamed wasteland aesthetic is just so grating. the post war governments and politics is so much more interesting. the fact that factions cannot in any way thrive because of a newly introduced puppet master that kind of makes any progress in the games completely meaningless is just very lame storytelling.
I may have misheard but the ghoul that cooper killed with Lucy in tow said something like he was showing for 28 years and cooper was for a longer time, but he was clearly prewar. So I'd assume ghouls don't need the vials until they start showing signs of going feral. That I like, every ghoul needing the vials off the bat I wouldn't like as much
I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye!
Also if a nuke fell on shady sands 5 years before New Vegas, A. It'd probably be talked about, B. the NCR army would have broken down the front door to the 3 vaults long before Maldever ever had her raiders and executed Hank. Either just shot him in retribution or Legion-style crucified him for his atrocities.
Also doesn't make sense because maximus was a kid then so it had to have been a while ago
@@connorcalhoun1572 yeah no he’d be a teenager
No need of any timeline to proove your point about shady sands. Maximus is from Shady sands. He is 19. We are 219 years after the war, so we are in 2296. You can see that Maximus is about 10 at the bombing of Shady Sands. So it was 10 years ago and Maximus is born in 2277. Shady Sands was bombed in 2286. EZPZ
Remember what the ghoul says. There’s what people say they did and then there’s what actually happened.
It bothers me that the writers seem to place Shady Sands at the edge of LA rather than several kilometers north of there in the desert. They couldn’t even get the location right. They imply the capital city of the largest power to arise post-war in America fell overnight thanks to some random vault tec divorcée. If they wanted to get rid of the NCR there were better ways of doing it, like making them collapse under their own weight which is where they were going anyways as shown several times In Fallout 2 and especially New Vegas
I also disagree with your opinion on the timeline. Who cares? You’re a lore channel lol. It implies the city fell in 2277, even if it wasn’t the bomb it was still obviously a big enough “fall” for them to mention on the timeline. And also, if they knew about the bomb falling why would they not mark the date of the day their entire city was destroyed?
A lot can happen between 81 and 96. They were going to have a major famine, a lack of water, and losing Vegas could result in mass civil unrest.
We do see a large settlement. I think there’s a good chance other NCR cities are ok as well… just central authority collapsed
Or just set the show somewhere else, or at a different point in the timeline. Absolutely nothing is gained by destroying Shady Sands.
@@Thagomizer Other than shitting on the original games
@@Raymuk And that is partly point of this video. Why should Shad Sands not be destroyed? Beacuse it shits on old games? Sure so we have city that has plot armor and cand be destroyed so no problems in wasteland.
its so strange they would put a date on something so ambigous as "the fall of shady sands" but didnt put a date on the city getting nuked and not meaning the city itselft getting nuke, sounds like people just just coping with shitty writting and to defend a lore retconn because they forgot the events of new vegas. but oh well
I read the drawing as the fall of Shady Sands was because of the nuclear bomb, that's why the arrow is pointing to the mushroom to tell us that the city fell because of the nuclear explosion, not some time later as some people say.
Probably a minor production error
I mean people don’t say with something like oh, remember what happened on April 12th, 1912 or April 26, 1986 when they refer to a tragedy. They say "Oh, remember what happened with the Titanic or Chernobyl?" If people know exactly what you are talking about, why even put up a date?
I think it was an honest mistake because it getting nuked in 77 doesn’t make any sense since the show takes place in 96. It’d make Maximus way too old
@@libertyprime201319 is too old?
Haven't watched the vid, but by the sheer amount of baby stepping in the beginning off the vid. someone still has their rose tinted glasses on. Look nothing wrong with an honeymoon phase as long as you understand you are in the honeymoon phase
"HOW DARE PEOPLE THINK DIFFERENT THAN ME"
God forbid someone enjoy something lol
In Fallout 1 and 2 there is an overlapping section. It's not impossible for them to go back.
But they might have to miss a portion of the history, or do like they did in the squeal of Deus Ex (Invisible war) where every ending had happened.
We do remeber this is the same guy who called Starfield the "magnum opus" . The fallout show is similar to J.K rowling changing things in harry potter just becasue. The crazy thing is they are changing the ideaology of what these factions mean and their actions. It isnt a retcon in the sense of events that have happend but a retcon of the way each faction thought and their personality, what made each of us love and hate certain factions. Acting is good, the show looks nice there is nothing to attack on that front.
I agree 100% there is something fundamentally different about all the factions, its like a dragon break timeline
Lmao, I had forgot about that video.
Interplay did a worse job with their own lore
Based of TK's fb page his takes are consistently trash.
@@CreepyRapper ratio
My theory on the ghoul vials is that it’s gonna be a gameplay mechanic in a future fallout game. There would have to be some sort of trade off for the player to be able to play as a ghoul and have permanent rad resistance.
I hope we can play as a ghoul eventually.
The trade off would be people don't like you and find you disgusting making it hard to work with anyone. 🤷♂️
I agree although reach 100 rads and you become feral and tad away doesn’t work so you have to wait for you rads to naturally lower would be a better mechanic imo
I figured it was just like a variant of RadAway or Rad-X, I didn't find this idea of preserving their non-feralness to really be an issue
Do you know what's wild
There is a popular mod that let's you play as a ghoul if you take chems/ghoul vials
Todd is ripping off mods now 😂😂 and putting in ghoul vials
How is it canon that mr. House was in on the bombing of the vault tech. Priests in the beotherhood. Completely different origin story for the ncr. It's absurd that anyone is calling it canon.
I still dont understand why this Nuke would be dropped on Shady Sands if they all came from a Vault.
"Rome fell in a day," said no one ever.
This person gets it but only 30 other people in this "thread" liked it because most people here are idiots.
Because westgots and vandals did not have atomic bomb, duh.
One of the issues with the "the bomb didn't drop in 2277" is that we have a much more tight timeline when we look at when Rose took Lucy to the NCR, her death being attributed to natural causes, and that having been recorded 19 years prior, meaning while the "Fall of Shady Sands" could've been attributed to something else, the nuke still happened fairly close to that, within months, which still leaves 3 years until the start of the events of Fallout: New Vegas, also very hard to blow off another nuclear detonation especially of a capital of a post-war nation.
Edit: went back into the transcript, and in episode 4 about 6:40 Lucy says "You know, my vault has endured hardship, too. In the Great Plague of ’77, everyone had to quarantine, they couldn’t work the farms together. People starved. My mother included." Here is where it cemented that Rose died in 2277 in my head, well death by becoming a feral ghoul, which is where I assumed the bomb was dropped on Shady Sands. However, there is already a interview out there of Todd Howard specificly pointing on that not only did the bomb drop after the events of New Vegas, but that the "Fall of Shady Sands" was not the nuke, which means we still have a question: what is the "Fall of Shady Sands"? Well, I'm gonna dig into the Fallout wiki and timeline till season 2 comes out.
to be honest Max dosen't look that old. if the bomb fell in 2277 he would me close to 30? dosen't fit
Almost like it's a chalkboard of a random group of survivors that wipes their ashes on themselves. Maybe the survivors got that date wrong and the show is intentionally trying to miss lead the viewer like so many shows.
I think they forgot to put the date under the mushroom cloud
@@cultofcringthulhusounds like copium.
@Tacdelio I like that is the only response you losers come back with. Shows you can't actually think
it retcons it and destroys it essentially
wrong
The thing that makes the least sense is nuking shady sands gets rid of the ncr like they expanded into multiple states even though they were spread so thin that also could mean nuking their main city may have only killed a small portion of their army
The ghost juice also seems to restore their memory as cooper seemed to remember the hidden power armor spot only after he intoxicated himself previously. And when he was running low he was going to sell the girl but that seems semi out of character for him in his normal state
i’ve seen some people speculate that the drug he takes is a mixture of drugs we’ve already seen like mentats/ jet. if your memory theory holds water than it could be some type of mentat + jet type drug
The thing is, it's impossible for New Vegas as it was currently written to be canon with the show, UNLESS the show is considered a retcon. Just like it's impossible for the Black Isle/Obsidian version of Fallout to be canon to the Bethesda version. There are so many irregularities and differences between the three versions that they simply can't possibly BE in the same canon. So the saying 'We didn't retcon anything, New Vegas is still canon' is LITERALLY impossible.
Vault 33 would of fallen to The Master or the Enclave.
Not that I’m disagreeing but could you please give some detailed examples?
Like for as much of a dirtbag as he was what happened to Arthur maxson? If the prydwen is there then where is the elder? Since the branding ritual didn’t happen in 4 it would either be a retcon or a new elder rule.
@@changvasejarik62Maxson is likely still on the East Coast.
He's indirectly referred to in episode one, as having sent the plans for the new power armor, and they directly mention the Commonwealth, too.
I can’t believe that Emil and Bethesda hate Obsidian so much that it led to people reasonably believing the show retcons new Vegas entirely.
with the ghoul vial thing, I don’t think that the vials are necessary for ghouls to not go feral but that it just *can* prevent that. The vial thing doesn’t retcon non feral ghouls in other games, it just adds a way to explain how the ghoul can retain his sanity for as long as they need him to while still being able to explore ghouls turning feral. Which is such a cool plot idea that gets completely overlooked in the games, only other fallout media that covers it is Nuka Break :v
Even just with established lore, we know 2277 was a rough ass year for the NCR considering they lost their secondary, and easier trade route with the Mojave; and as they were now a few years into draining resources into the Mojave, culminating with the 1st Battle of Hoover Dam that same year. Definitely leaning towards the 'metaphorical fall' theory with it marking an era of undeniable decline for Shady.
It still doesn’t make any sense for the NCR to be pushing east into Arizona if they had to spend 4 years rebuilding a government and reestablishing military power back west to fund resources for an eastern frontier
@@austinsultenfuss7661 'Metaphorical' fall
@@dafinger I’m saying the NCR wouldn’t even be present in New Vegas if their capital blew up. Their campaign would’ve ended and the NCR would’ve returned west to reestablish a new base of power and a new government in only 4 years before the events of New Vegas take place. That just can’t logically happen in this time span and still make sense.
@@dafinger oh no. I disagree. There’s nothing “metaphoric” about these dates. They’re all clear and point to accurate events and the dates they took place. Shady Sands was nuked in 2277
Here’s the issue though. If a capital of a society falls, so too does everything that’s a part of it. If the NCR capital fell 4 years before Vegas, they shouldn’t even exist in the game, no less in such a strong presence.
The "colonize space" thing was decanonized over a decade ago, why is this still being talked about as if it's fact?
Pretty sure I said it wasn't canon anymore after mentioning the lore.
@@TKsMantis Not you specifically, I mean the fan base in general.
@@Alex_FRD Its just cope. Bethesda could shit on the entire series, (which they arguably did here in this shite show) and the fanboys would defend it no matter what.
I mean in nuka world there is a prototype for a space vault so I don't think the other planet thing is not canon
@@Alex_FRDWhoa careful, Mantits might take that as a personal attack or something and call you out on Twitter.
14:25 Yes the NCR was making enemies, but their isssues were mainly that of overextending like the Roman empire irl
The whole getting nuked is completely nonsensical and just opens up so many issues. If they wanted an irradiated town, they easily could have just made up a new town like Camp Searchlight.
Hancock in fallout 4 took an experimental radiation drug, and now he's a ghoul, wonder if the snake oil merchant in the fallout show learned how to replicate that drug somehow
If Mr House is alive in the show (and I hope he is) it's pretty much confirmed that he won NV right? Isn't his death required for every other ending in NV?
I sincerely hope he's alive and a major player in the show. I think an independent New Vegas is the most interesting ending, but even a Yes Man ending could be interesting - Yes Man could even adopt a Mr House persona with the actual guy being dead etc, etc.
Yeah, if House lives the House Ending is forced to become canonical; that is literally the only ending he survived.
Yet it's still screwed because we see Vegas as a wasteland...so it's all destroyed regardless.
Basically telling the players of New Vegas, screw you and they game you like.
@@shughan666 there IS some leeway there, he could have backed up his consciousness inside an AI in his systems so he can "survive" his physical body being killed.
@@TheHuffmanatorthe credits scenes where they zoom out don’t appear to actually be canon otherwise maximus could have gotten fusion cores from the many power armours shown across the wasteland
@@TheHuffmanator I don't understand your logic of things being 'ruined' meaning they're saying 'screw you and the game you like'. They're representing the game you like in a way that's different - that's how every single aspect of the games have been treated.
No, It just took everything from the interplay-obsidian worldbuilding, and smashed it like an angry todd-ler wrecking his brothers lego town.
"nobody is allowed to have anything nice. if the east coast is a pit of misery and no one ever rebuilds, so must the west coast. vegas, the NCR, Legion, and all civilization must die
but also the Brotherhood must remain omnipotent, because power armor and vault boy are the hallmarks of our marketing"
Yeah basically this.
Eh i think the brotherhood is done pretty well in the show, feels like the most Fallout 1 like theyve been than since...well fallout 1.
The thing I wonder about is that he east-coast brotherhood is now making moves to the west and they're not talking about all the cool stuff that they are encountering on the journey in-between. It's just a simple trek for a vertibird, I guess. Hollywood always ignores the fly-over states, lol.
"Todd-ler" 😂😂😂
God you guys act like massive gaping pussies.
If a reason for those people being raiders and not ncr is the fact that they found good stuff and stayed, why would someone run out with an ncr flag?
What I assumed happened regarding the nuking of Shady Sands is that yes it occurred in 2277, the city is gone, but the NCR isn't. That they simply relocated their government and capital. They've just lost control over that region.
Also, I find it funny how people are afraid of canon Fallout endings when literally every Fallout game except for New Vegas, 4 & 76 has a canon ending
Edit: So I did some searching, according to Todd Howard the Bomb went off shortly after the events of new Vegas
I have a feeling that the anti feral drug isn't the only reason ghouls don't turn, the drug is just something that can stop the symptoms when they start showing
The issue isnt that ncr fell its the timeline, the chalkboard matches specific dates that are confirmed, so the fall of shadey sands date happened there so either it fell before the bomb or it got nuked, if N R capital fell i think they would have trouble being able to even be in vegas at all, they need to explain it better
Also they don't give it (tge blast) a date like other things, they just point to it right after it fell, Implying that's why it fell
I think the chalkboard was a mistake because we know that the show is set well after NV takes place in ‘96. Probably whoever drew the chalkboard googled NCR nuked and didn’t realize the timeline was referring to the long 9
@@libertyprime2013 it definitely shouldn't have been
Careful Mantis you might suffocate on that pre-war FEV level copium
Also people forget that Bethesda might just canonize an ending if they want and having the show tell it. No reason they can't use that for another story they are planning to tell.
Why did they move shady sands hundreds of miles away from its original location tho?
Didn't retcon it entirely but it does contain a lot of little retcons, like House knowing about,and being complicit in the plan to start the war, or shady sands being where the boneyard should be, and also not being the capitol anymore. Plus the weirdness with Sinclair and Big MT.
But, Bethesda always does that, and their games usually only pick one ending to make the canon one, so really it's always just one possible timeline that other endings would have led to different things happening.
We all knew they wouldn't make us completely happy when they decided to do something on the West Coast though, deep down.
I can accept it for what it is, even if it might not be ideal.
I though about Mr House being complicit ruins his character and story but I thought about it more. He may have known that Vault Tec has plans to drop bombs, but it can still fit into his plan. He is in the know but its not like he can stop them. They're too far into the game to stop so he still could have predicted whens about the bombs would start to drop but still be off by a little bit. So I don't think him knowing changes TOO much.
Sinclair being a representative of Big MT was also odd, but the Think Tank aren't bussiness men while Sinclair is. They wouldn't have been invited to a board meeting with executives and bussinessmen because they're just the nerds behind the tech. Sinclair being a customer and investor of theirs thus makes sense he is with the other executives rather than the doctors.
@@ArmouredProductions But also, House is an industrialist. Money men like that love to self-mythologize their lives a lot. To the point you can't tell what the real story is any more.
@@couchpotato2222 Yeah. When he says in FNV that he predicted the outcome of the war it litteraly could just be a lie to make himself look better. Its not like he isn't that kind of guy. I still like him though and side with him most of the time.
@@ArmouredProductionsHouse would totally be complicit. He only cares about money and power
@@simoneidson21 House cares about Vegas you dolt. Nothing else.