as a T7 owner i want to point out two things, that piece is not a structural part of the fame, is only meant to hold the engine guard, witch most of us replace with heavier and thicker skid plates, also in the owners manual says you're not supposed to lift the bike from there but then the service manual contradicts it saying that's where you're supposed to lift the bike from, to change tires, service the suspension and such, finally the hole that causes the problem holds a wire for the kickstand switch witch is know to be problematic for off roaders because it tends to turn off the bike when the kickstand is bouncing around so many of us chose to delete the switch so i would say that the wire is unnecessary, overall i would argue that the problem is not such a big deal but having a replacement part made to a higher quality standard would be great for peace of mind.
I've got about 28,000 on my T7, with about 11k of that off road. The one thing I'll say about the front supports is they are designed to be replaced, so while not ideal that they would break. They are at least easy to fix. I don't really have a concern with the engine as a stressed member. Every manufacturer does it, at this point I think the majority of adventure bikes have the engine as a stressed member. (KTM 790, 890, 1090, 1290, BMW F850, R1250GS, and so on)
Owner of a 2022 T7 bought new. For 20 years prior I used, and still use, a road worthy 2002 DRZE. In response to your two main comments about the rear suspension. Yes, I noticed the inability to reduce that slight kick on washboard gravel roads, and potholes at highway speed, etc. I am off road rider, championed racer, in my youth, experiencing the evolution of single shock suspensions over the years since 1979. In comparison, the DRZE takes the bumps, (as felt is my butt, and lower back), in a far more sophisticated fashion. I have adjusted my riding style, as expected, on the T7 to get my butt off the seat a little before hitting anything, not so on the DRZE, I can relax and let the bike take it for me. No amount of preload and rebound and spring adjustments so far has eliminated this quirk. However. Being an experienced off road rider I never had the false illusions that the T7 was dirtbike. The plan all along was to refit the DRZE to focus on off road riding....lower the gearing, and bring it back to stock format, with the addition of the T7 for the road/gravel riding. There is no doubt that this video analysis is accurate in its underlying advice....If you want to go off road, hard riding....the T7 is no dirt bike, compared to real dirt bikes anyhow. The broken frame, subframe issue is testament to that. The skid plate is mud and gravel rock deflection plate at best compared to a true double cradle, high center of gravity dirt bike. Dropping down on logs and rocks needs to happen to ride off road. I watch riders slam these down as if it were a double cradle, and I cringe to their naive beliefs. I have often wandered what reinforcement the pros fabricators are designing to replace that little subframe. I minor problem really, as if you want to modify this bike for real dirt riding, is simple enough, just more money. It keeps the price low for everyone else who isn't a ricky racer. I bought the T7 for the engine, pure and simple. In 2015 I was shopping for a new bike, spotted the MT07, always wanted a twin, have owned mostly Yamahas and Suzuki over 45 years and when the T7 came out, I bought one, regardless of the frame shortcomings. I bought it for the engine, and basic format (not street). My intention is to never drop this bike and use it like a street bike mostly. I installed the lower link kit, not because I am short, I am 6 feet, but for the street riding improvement, and center of gravity. Well I will leave it at that. Its about time the T7 critiques are rolling in with sound analysis, taking it down a notch is what it needed, particularly with all the crashing going on out there on You Tube....its unbelievable how casual crashing has become...it seems. The T7 is what it is, and if you want to make it what it isn't, throw a lot of money and modifications at it, and wait for the manufacturers to redesign these ADV bikes. Its seems like they all have some weird flaw. My prediction is that they will get it right soon enough, but that could be 10 years away, and I will be too old by then.....so I am happy I lived from my first ADV bike....a 1979 Yamaha MX100, to a T7. I couldn't ask for more, and I am completely happy with it, because I have no inflated expectations, I have two bikes, off and on road, and simply love the engines on both my bikes. I couldn't ask for a better 45 years of motorcycling evolution and I was right in the middle of it.
I’m looking at a T7 for similar reasons. Light off-roading plus commuting to work. Keep the drz400e 2018 model for off-road work. Then I’ll have an option for camping on either bike also.
The fastest bikes in races like paris dakar have always been twins, until they banned them and enforced the 450cc rule. Other rallies, twins still rule. If you see when everybody switched to 450s in baja it is at that same time in the early 2000s the FIM began banning big bikes from a lot of other major rallies and made 450s the standard. That is why they race them in desert racing today. There arent competitive classes outside 450 and you wont get support racing a big bike so nobody does. The factory gytr which we cant buy has set numerous records winning outright against factory race prototypes from honda ktm to counter your point. The gytr is the same chassis and engine and subframe.
Those rails are NOT a structural part of the frame. When Yamaha released the bike they talked about this at length, they are only there to protect the bottom of the engine from impacts off road. As such they could be removed and the bike ridden without them, the engine is the stressed member, not these. I would prefer that they break rather than transferring the load into the frame and motor and potentially damaging them. Highly likely that what broke these was an impact from below.
No doubt that is the problem....these T7's are not true dirt bikes, and riders are slamming them down on logs and such like they are,......which they are not. by design. You simply need a double cradle frame design for that. Stating the obvious.
Left rail $250 - Aus Right rail $150 - Aus And they are not part of the frame structure. They loop under the engine, the engine is the structural part. Couple of questions, are you guys running standard suspension? What aftermarket bash plate do you use, or std? Cheers
The fracture occurs at the max stress point of the hole... That seems clear. But it is also at the outer range of the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) from the weld. Lowering the position of the hole might prevent or at least take more time before the member breaks. Actual field testing. It is videos such as this which can be treasures for a company to improve their products. Make what is already great even better.
I think you do not know what that word you keep using means. The "stressed member" is not failing. If the engine block broke, then your words would match. The false down tubes that you are showing have broken are not "stressed", or better stated, not structural members of the frame. They provide physical protection for the front of the motor and a place to mount the skid plate. Indeed, they maybe to light for the job, as the bike is heavy and when you bash the bash plate that appears to be the weak/failure point. The good news is you can easily weld/repair/replace these nonstructural members quite easily, as long as the mounting holes line up you are good to go.
In the manual it’s stated that you are not supposed to lift the bike using the bashplate and it is because that pipe is not loadb bearing and i think you just found out they know what they are saying. I believe it’s not part of the load bearing frame it just hold the bashplate to not fall down to say. It is also replaceable. So you basically not breaked the frame just pipe holding the bashplate.
I agree. Revised opinion with correction. 2 rental bikes that have been ridden in an unknown manner barely should make a review to be honest. Many GSes and other bikes break proper frames too.
I can think of two scenarios how this happened: 1. The bikes got hit hard in the bashplates, for example trying to go over a big log or stone and landing on it. If this is the case, why haven’t we seen more of these? 2. This one is the most likely cause: You had crashbars on the bikes that were mounted to these ”frame rails”, for example Outback Mototek. The bikes were dropped and the rigid crashbars transfered all the force to the pipe not designed to handle huge forces from that angle (since the rails are not structural parts of the frame). And as somebody stated, those drilled holes may be designed fuses, meant to break before the actual frame. As a T7 owner since early 2020, and a member in several T7 groups with tens of thousands of members on social media, I have never heard of this happening to anyone before, so I don’t think this is anything we all need to be afraid of.
I’m curious if a stronger chassis member would have prevented damage altogether or would those stresses be transferred to the engine case resulting in a larger (more expensive) issue?
Thanks for the no nonsense discussion. I wonder how many riders will ride hard enough to actually break these supports or if this is a" just a matter of time" issue? I certainly think that some of this can be attributed to the bikes being part of a rental fleet. Keep up the good work!
This bike can survive Pol Tarres, but cannot survive weekend warrior rental crowd? Something else is at play here. Did you follow up with Yamaha, what did they say? This looks to be the "side member sub-assembly" which only serves as a mounting structure for the "protector, engine". An impact on the engine protector would have to be very severe to cause the fail, but this might be the fail point that Yamaha has designed into the motorcycle. Re: the "swing-arm" assembly, Husky uses this as well on their FE501S in contrast the the more conventional KTM 500EXCF. Dome love the Husky design, some love the KTM design. There are pros/cons for both. Again, Pol Tarres has ridden the Tenere 700 where others stuggle with a 250lb 300cc 2-stroke, over a Hard Enduro. There is no unicorn bike, but Mr. Yamaha seems to have done a very good job at getting close.
Pol has probably broken multiple of those and his bike is far from stock. The rear exhaust hanger is just terrible. The motor was originally designed for a street bike so the anti squat swing arm wasn't exactly on purpose.
Wow, some people in this comment section have absolutely no class! Anyways, a really nice mod I did to my T7 was to get the Camel-Adv High Exhaust (Enduro Bend) and match that with a pair of R&G Racing Luggage Side Rails for soft luggage. Feel much better now about dropping the bike. The oem muffler design and hanger is just plain bizarre. As a very moderate adv rider my T7 is still the perfect bike. Well almost perfect - I would love to have electronic cruise control.
why no mention of yamaha reaction to this? does they honour this broken frame piece as guarantee and i also would like to hear yamaha answer aboot this issue
I'm going to help you out here. Put on everything you were to ride helmet and all. Even if it's cross country. Full tank of gas. Seated on the bike with hands on the handlebars. Your front wheel needs to be in a chock. And have your buddy measure your front suspension for sag. And the rear. Adjust your suspension for 2 1/2 inches front and rear. Now your bike is balanced and compliant. When breaking the bike won't nose dive or cause you to move back in the seat. Learn how to use both breaks instead of one. And get all your breaking done before you enter corners. What's even a greater idea is find a back road and ride using no breaks at all . Learn to roll in the throttle and out. Keep your hands on the handlebars like egg shells. Let the bike do the work. It will cut down on forearm pain from gripping so tight. I raced 13 years professionally in AMA Superbike and the sane in WERA. A well balanced bike is a better handling bike whether it's off road or on the track. Suspension set up makes for quick reaction when a car pulls out in front if you. Giving you more confidence in handling. Have a great day.
The CP2 engine is amazing! The reason why I got my 2022 MT-07 is because a lot of the stunt riders get those bikes and they can take the abuse. I love the way the Tenere 700 looks and with that engine thats been tested for years just gives me a piece of mind that its going to last a long time!
love you guys for your content...but that stress chassis thing and antisquat, i do not agree with. In my humble opinion frame it was ment for bashplate, not for the engine. Anyway still an easier and cheaper fix than a case. Antisquat is just something it either works for you as a rider or it doesn't... for me the benefits of it far more exceds the downsides
I don't know if you used crash bars on your t7s but you must use Yamaha oem crash bars. Some aftermarket crash bars are attach to the tube that broke on your T7. These tubes are not designed to support the forces transmitted by the crash bar during a fall. Thanks
what a great platform for reviews, no feelings, no gut instinct - rather, DATA from many hours on the fleet, and the gear, looking for many more - good job!!
I agree. If you want to jump triples, get a YZF 450. T7 jumps logs and wheelies through creekbeds. It doesn't jump school busses. Well, I mean, you could. When you use a cell phone as a hammer, it breaks.
Another part about the counter squat system. It requires a looser chain and the base model, non rally raid version, doesn't have rear chain guards/ chain guide. If the chain comes off it's susceptible to whip and break the front chain guard off which is bolted directly to the engine and can break off a hole into the block, non important area, ppl have jb welded it back on and gotten a proper chain guard. Not ideal, especially since it can spill out your oil on the trail before you know it.
Valuable information based on experience with renting the bikes. A stressed member chassis doesn't seem like a good idea for an adventure bike but I always thought yamaha or honda could design it to be tough enough. It would be interesting to know how many T7's you have in your fleet, knowing that two have had serious failures. Keep the re-reviews coming! Would like to see a similar follow up review for the Africa Twins.
Good call, we are overdue to report on all these Africa Twins have worked out. Short answer is: They have been outstanding, reliable, capable bikes for us since 2016. About 30 bikes and less than 5 problems ever. Hundreds of thousands of miles. T7’s, across all ops, about 10 bikes so far. Overall great, just the few flaws.
@@RIDEAdventures I would love a report on the AT as well! After buying a new AT last summer, I've always wondered if I would have loved the T7 more. But your comment makes me think I didn't chose wrong. (Maybe I can get a T7 as a second bike for my wife.)
@ Jim I went from a 2017 Africa Twin to the 2021 T7 and am much happier at least for my style of riding. I like off-road and wheelies. The AT was a better road bike though. However I had MotoZ H/T’s on it riding Black Bear Pass, alpine Loop and much more off road stuff. The T7 is easier to ride the tougher terrain.
I own a 2016 V Strom 1000 and a friend has a 1050. Side by side they seem almost identical structurally with a lot of the main components looking to be interchangeable.
Why do people think a fairly poor geometry of the chain, swing-arm to counter-shaft design (high counter-shaft sprocket) is a good idea? The high engine placement helps make the center of gravity, higher. It helps make the chain tension vary more during compression of the rear suspension. This helps make the chain more likely to come off if a little bit out of spec and bust the crankcase. Yes, there have been several cases of that happening to owners. (Keep the chain tension within spec!) I'm afraid too many reviewers drank the "Kool-Aid", like Fort-Nine did and then "spin-it" into a positive. It is called "good marketing" to turn a potentially poor design into sounding like a good feature for you to desire. My 2 cents worth. 😓 (I was completely in LOVE with the Tenere 700 in almost every way when it was released, but it was just more heavy than I wanted in an Dual-Purpose bike. I'm a BIG Yamaha Fan BTW)
EXCELLENT point about the chain tension that should have been addressed in this and our previous videos. (And Ryan’s :) Yeah, I was intrigued by the geometry at first, but it does have its flaws. Thanks very much for pointing that out, good one!
I noticed in the T7 manual it states that the lower "skid plate" is a cowling. So clearly that bashing down on this cowling with rider and bike weight and momentum will simply over cook the intended design. I wouldn't call it a flaw, the flaw would be the rider who thinks this type of bike can be treated the same as an actual dirt bike.....double cradle frame, high ground clearance, narrow low down. If a "dirtbike" doesn't have these three key features....its not a dirtbike. The result of these design features is problems. The worst of which I think is the lower engine area making contact with the ground too often, and one video I saw was a dude cooking it on a trail...then his bike went into a relatively shallow rut...and essentially stopped and began a cartwheel because the cowling was wider than the rut...and the rut was deeper than the ground clearance etc. I think the broken frame issue raised in this video is a result of rental abuse, and big drops onto the cowling....not designed for that.
Review from experience is the best way to do it. I am curious how the new Africa Twin 1100 is holding with all new electrical stuff on it. And I still claim This is the best adv review channel. All the best
The front rails are made to be replaced and are essentially only to mount a skid plate to. It isn't a structural member. Those bars aren't stressed members. You shouldn't be giving reviews of these bikes if you don't understand this.
Yes, my description of their role, as it turns out, it was not entirely accurate. That they are under built is accurate, though, for what they are expected to do. Yamaha built them so we have to replace them though?
@RIDE Adventures yes, it's just like SxS A arms. They are meant to only take so much abuse so that the est of the bike doesn't take it. Any shock to the skidplate is taken through these, and if you hit something hard enough, they will give and not send it through the rest of the bike. Way cheaper than replacing a frame. I have a friend that replaced his before they failed just because he knows what he puts his bike through. It's way cheaper than a 3k dollar frame.
Thanks for the review and bringing the broken down tubes to everyone's attention. It will be good to hear if anyone else has experienced this. I wonder though, if the broken down tube is related to fitting certain crash bars or bash plates? It seems a bit odd that the tube is sitting ajar from the frame with such a large gap, as if there has been some kind of misalignment. What accessories have been fitted? Is there anything common between the two bikes?
First reports I’ve heard of that engine cradle breaking. Luckily an easy fix. No doubt the popularity of this bike has done huge damage to Yamaha’s pumpkin patch supply of those surplus signals. Provided they’re not growing any more, they’ should go the way of the dodo soon.
This tube that breaks... because, like you said, this bike's motor is a stress member of the motorcycle frame, this tube that breaks is not a structural piece. Right? What is it? What is its function?
I don’t know if anyone is gonna claim the t7 is the perfect adv bike. Sadly it seems to be the best we have got for now in a reasonably priced reliable midsized adv. I don’t see the new v strom or transalp beating it off road
And I agree. Despite a few flaws, the T7 is still a great option, and definitely more of an athlete than the bikes you mentioned. The floor is open for the perfect middleweight though. Who’s going to build it? Harley never called me :)
@vincent lehmann I will be pleasantly surprised if the transalp turns out to be an off road champ. The spec sheet says otherwise, but only time will tell for sure.
@@TheWrigleThe issue with the Honda app not being available for Americans is why I will never buy a Transalp. I would have to be some kind of broken, beaten down human to spend $10,000 with a company that openly hates me. Consumers get treated like crap in America because they bring it on themselves.
You do a great job at informing us all. I’m very curious about your thoughts on the comparison of the T7 and Africa Twin. I don’t think (on paper) that they’re too different to compare.
Your observation is correct. We did make a video that reminds us of their similarities, and helps riders whittle the decision down to one thought: ruclips.net/video/a8E-e8fncTs/видео.html
I just sold my 2020 africa twin..... It is not designed for off road..... 1. The display takes forever to start up. 2. When you turn the bike off abs and traction control comes on and takes forever to toggle it off.. 3. If you lay the bike down the plastics will absolutely explode. They are held together with plastic clips. It's a damn puzzle getting it together 4. The air filter is under the plastic that are a pain to take off.. If you plan on riding off road stay clear of that bike..
@@seanstrickland4970 I have one. Same year. I'm not bothered by the same things that seemed to bug you, but neither one is a KTM 500 EXC, which is what it sounds like you may want.
@@motojon76 I stay away from ktm. Any company that makes you pay for cruise control that is already on the bike should go out of business in my opinion. To my point if you just plan on going on a ride to the store or a light fire road it is a great bike..... BUT it being marketed as this awesome badass do everything adv bike it is not......... Ive been deep on the forums and I think a lot of people agree with me. Bottom line if youre planning on riding hard stay away from this bike. thanks for the response have a good one.
@@seanstrickland4970 I think it depends on how each one differentiates an adventure bike from an enduro bike. Because of being in the light part of the adventure bikes and all of the beautiful Dakar styling, it’s very possible that people tend to use the T7 in a more abused way that it was designed for. Using it as an strictly adv the bike won’t break. I’m guessing that perhaps Yamaha should go full on enduro bikes (eg KTM 350/450/500) or on big adv bikes (Africa, GS, 1290 or so).
You really know. People should shut up and listen. I found you a little bit ago, and I learn something from each video I watch. I trust you. Thanks. ❤❤❤
I sold it after one season and 13 000km. Its missing power and wind buffeting no matter which screen i have used what setup it had was awfull, hoping transalp750 will be better match for my offroad ( light) type of riding and better onroad
The cb500x alluminum block is having quite flimsy connection to the front. Alluminum is famous for tiring and cracking under stress and vibration. Both 500x and Tenere are quite heavy bikes for rough ride.
Outstanding review Eric. As a T-7 owner, I will definitely keep an eye out and find out if any other T-7 owners have had the same issue. Thank so much for this review.
Thanks for saying, so, and yeah, good to keep an eye on these pieces when we do our bike inspections, folks. Subtle little thing, hard to see if the bike is all mudded-up after a day pf play.
Shame about the breaks. Honestly though, the Tenere 700 was always too damn top heavy to be close to perfect. Riding a T7, and then getting on a Tuareg it's shocking how different the weight is placed on bikes so similiar. - Frank
Pls, let us know with a follow-up video, what your investigation revealed. I am debating still whether should I go with the crash bar or not. From the video, I was not sure if your rental fleet uses them. Would crash bars help with this issue? Which crash bar solution do you prefer? Thank you
No issues on my T7 bought May 2021. I put a swing arm protector on to prevent rubbing when the exhaust got a bit bent from drops and slides when off road. I kept the original exhaust for now. Camel adv have an interesting theory on how the skid plate supports might be caused. I never heard of the issue with the supports before.. I have outback mototek crashbars which clamp on these skid plate supports so I will keep an eye on that part. Thankyou for your videos.
Eric, it's awesome to see you back and posting. Always a great source of information. I think your points on the T7 are fair. As a T7 owner (and a basic-skills level ADV rider) I would offer this feedback on the T7. - The frame members that broke on you guys are technically not "structural" frame members (IE they are not engine mount points), those frame members serve to support the bash plate, the lower part of the radiator, and a connection spot for the side cowls. Yeah, I agree - they should not break, but they are not really bearing the frame load of the bike. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to change out. Also, the support they do provide can be strengthened by adding lower frame guards (such as those from Rival) - which is a must for any serious ADV bikes. No excuse for them breaking - but I would put it in the same design/QA flaw as the exhaust mount. Yamaha needs to do better. - I am not a good enough rider to really tell if the anti-squat is affecting my riding on the bike off-road - in general, I have found the bike to be very stable both on and off road, so I have no complaints about it, but I could see more experienced riders (like you) being able to tell the difference on that feature. If I have one large complaint on the bike's rideability, it's that it is super top heavy and takes a lot to get used to, especially off road. A lower/rear designed tank would make the bike easier to ride IMO. - I think there a few new middle weights on the market now that I would like to see used heavily (like you guys have used the T7s) - most notably, the Aprilia Tuareg. (they now have a Rally version coming out) - very similar design to the T7, but with a few more features like rider controls and tubeless rims. Informative, fair review.
The333, thanks, and oops, did I get that wrong? Don’t have a bike next to me now, but we might have looked at what that piece is actually doing incorrectly. The issue was communicated to me via photo/text just a couple weeks ago, as the bikes are in Baja now for the winter. - Nonetheless, yep, if it’s subject to any pounding the skid plate would take, then Yami definitely underbuilt. Congrats on the great bike though, one that will make for plenty of smiles over the coming miles. Thanks for pointing that out though and I stand corrected.
@@RIDEAdventures I think your assessment was fair - There are definitely design flaws on the bike that Yammi needs to address/strengthen and I think the broken side members is a valid one. Cheers and great to see you posting again.
@@RIDEAdventures In fitting crash bars to mine which needed the bit you broke being undone, I think it had one bolt top and bottom and is hanging free if you undo the crash plate perhaps. A big hit on the crash plate may well snap the bit you show? I think they are just protection.
@@MeerkatADV Ummmm yeah - which is what I said in my first comment verbatim - not sure why you needed to correct me... And yeah, sorry I would argue that is is a bit of a design flaw - in the same way that the exhaust hanger is a design flaw. - The side members are problematic for a number of reasons, not just breaking. They bend easily, they get wonked out of alignment super easily, they throw off the mounting points for the bash plate and the side cowls when they bend and they can potentially damage other stuff on the bike (even Cory from Camel said this - when his bent, they busted his radiator hose) - they are kind of stupid, quite frankly. At a minimum they should have a bit of lateral bracing on them either under the engine or under the radiator. I get that they are designed to bend and break before the frame does, but I have found them to be more problematic than useful, honestly. They were done as a cheaper way to reduce weight on the bike and take advantage of the engine as the main frame structure.
As a T7 owner, thanks for this longer term review and heads-up about this potential breaking problem! About the Blinkers. I too do not like the originals, nor have I seen anything in the aftermarket world (that I'm aware of) that I can get excited about! I did do Camel ADV's Tail Tidy (love that) but kept the OEM blinkers until I can find better. I would be quite happy with the OEM LED ones that came stock on the Euro/Aussi bikes, but have not found a source for them in this country! If you know of a source, OR would like to put together a kit to be sold in the on-line store, I'd be interested! Cheers, and ride safe!
Yea, lots of bikes to review, we just haven't put an Suzukis into operations for a while. When we do, it'll be reviewed for sure. So many options out there......
Interesting, this is an issue that’s occurring with the Triumph Scrambler 1200 as well, I’ve seen probably 10-15 reports just myself, after I did a video about it. The problem with the scrambler is the kickstand is mounted to it - so if that piece breaks your kickstand starts to lose its ability to hold up the bike. Also, on another note I have a friend that had the neck tube on his T7 crack at the weld - not sure if that’s common but that’s a much worse issue!
Hi there, My Dad was NZ Import Manager for Triumph and Yamaha, In 70s and 80s, I guess you’ve let Yamaha know about these serious frame failures in a email at all
Have yet to see it in person. Probably a solid offering from Honda, although it has a few flaws like exhaust routing and things like that. We will report when we get one.
I’ve treated my T7 like a dirt bike, jumping it with fully loaded panniers hundreds of times and those braces appear pristine on my bike. That said, 2 important mods may be contributing to a lack of cracks or breaking. First, I have a full rally raid suspension kit so bottom-outs are not a constant occurrence like they were with the stock suspension. Second, I have a full Heed crashbar system which serves as additional bracing/support between the motor and frame? We’re the bikes with the broken braces bone stock?
Thanks, this is a fair balanced experienced based review, these are helpful because you have a fleet of bikes that are all used in similar conditions that provides good perspective comparing one against the others and also providing pros/cons. We need more objective videos with proof data points like you provided in this one vs. brand fan videos which are unfortunatly too common on YT. Looks like you may have captured a potential chasis flaw that Yamaha can quickly address and simply.
Thanks, and yea, if Yamaha made new frame struts just a bit more robust, it would probably take care of the issue. Maybe someone else will have to do it though.- It’s going to be hard for us to catch a fracture in the moment that it happens, but we will do our best! Thanks for watching the channel.
Weird on that "indication" (the PC version of break) and design. When taking Engineering at University we spent a whole class on exactly these types of "Stress Risers". Depending on the pinning on the ends and the lateral, linear, and torsional loads to this member it looks like an accident waiting to happen OR a "fuse" so something else, more critical, doesn't break. But like you said, you have no idea how they were being used at failure. BTW, Great review. Now you have me curious.
@@adriantompson most likely its side crash bar that is ramming into that tube from the side and brakes it. There is one design of crash bars that might be contributing to this. Its a rental bike :) its dropped on the side all the time.
For sure a stronger third party part would sell like hotcakes! :) I haven't had this issue on mine and it's as you said an easy fix but I think everyone taking these bikes on hard trails should be aware so they can monitor the mount. To me from the pictures you provided the mount has been broken for a while before it finally gave out completely? (Surface rust)
interesting feature thanks, breaking parts- weld up the hole? how heavy are they perhaps carry spares if on a big trip, poor suspension action due to swingarm geometry- how would you differentiate that from poor damper/spring action? indicators- well not really worth a conversation. Possibly the reason for the countershaft a little high is the short gearbox design with gear shafts stacked vertically as opposed to horizontal, I doubt that its an "anti squat" design. also trying to keep the engine as high as possible for ground clearance issues, clearly the engine is a off the shelf engine not dedicated for this model. Good point what is Kawasaki doing nothing comparable in this market sector, The Suzy is in a different bike park in reality. Great info and honesty thank you would love to hear more.
Good question. Need to take the piece off again to see if it would be straight enough to slip over either end. A “slip-in” would work once it’s broken in half though.
These issues, like other comparative items make the Aprilia Tuareg the Uber T7.... hell, they basically upgraded and made a Super T7 with 2020+ Tech. - Have you considered it Eric?
if you turn a road bike into a dirt bike there will always be that 50/60 kg weigh penalty over any single plus the higher COG and other design compromises. So there will never be the perfect bike and you either accept the lesser road manners of a single or go for comfort and compromise dirt capability plus higher stress on the frame. I go for light weight every time and it’s even more critical as you age.
Thought you were running 790 adventures? At least that is how it looked from your earlier videos. pretty sure it was mentioned you were running them on tours down in Chilean Patagonia.
@@RIDEAdventures how else is that going to break right there bro the manual says don't do it otherwise it will happen. Also thanks for the lecture cool neck brace
Well, we’ve never jacked them. So, you tell us how they broke. - And if Yamaha designed a bike that can’t be lifted by the skid plate, that was a huge error as well.
hi, what about top heaviness? some people say that from a certain roll angle they fail to keep it upright and when dropped they struggle to lift it up again. i dont own one, but it's around quite often.
Lots of riders have said it’s top heavy. I haven’t ever thought it was too bad, but then again, am more accustomed to handling much heavier bikes. - Thanks for watching.
Good report Eric, you have a true testing ground for the machine. I wonder if Corey from Camel has broken any frames as he is a big guy that rides incredibly hard?
that peice you broke is not a stresed part off the chase. its just a bar that holds the sump guard . have a better look. as to your antey sqot keep kicking you up the arse. put 4 more clicks compresion and that stops that. its got nothing to do with the bike design. as for the new suzuki was told its not desighed for jumping so not much good for us that jump adventure bikes.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
as a T7 owner i want to point out two things, that piece is not a structural part of the fame, is only meant to hold the engine guard, witch most of us replace with heavier and thicker skid plates, also in the owners manual says you're not supposed to lift the bike from there but then the service manual contradicts it saying that's where you're supposed to lift the bike from, to change tires, service the suspension and such, finally the hole that causes the problem holds a wire for the kickstand switch witch is know to be problematic for off roaders because it tends to turn off the bike when the kickstand is bouncing around so many of us chose to delete the switch so i would say that the wire is unnecessary, overall i would argue that the problem is not such a big deal but having a replacement part made to a higher quality standard would be great for peace of mind.
Hear hear
Hear hear
I hope the creator of the vid takes time to read your post. He seems clueless about it.
Despite not making it past 9th grade, you definitely make a few valid points.
@@Carado5150Yeah, that was one hell of a run-on sentence!
I've got about 28,000 on my T7, with about 11k of that off road. The one thing I'll say about the front supports is they are designed to be replaced, so while not ideal that they would break. They are at least easy to fix. I don't really have a concern with the engine as a stressed member. Every manufacturer does it, at this point I think the majority of adventure bikes have the engine as a stressed member. (KTM 790, 890, 1090, 1290, BMW F850, R1250GS, and so on)
Owner of a 2022 T7 bought new. For 20 years prior I used, and still use, a road worthy 2002 DRZE. In response to your two main comments about the rear suspension. Yes, I noticed the inability to reduce that slight kick on washboard gravel roads, and potholes at highway speed, etc. I am off road rider, championed racer, in my youth, experiencing the evolution of single shock suspensions over the years since 1979. In comparison, the DRZE takes the bumps, (as felt is my butt, and lower back), in a far more sophisticated fashion. I have adjusted my riding style, as expected, on the T7 to get my butt off the seat a little before hitting anything, not so on the DRZE, I can relax and let the bike take it for me. No amount of preload and rebound and spring adjustments so far has eliminated this quirk. However. Being an experienced off road rider I never had the false illusions that the T7 was dirtbike. The plan all along was to refit the DRZE to focus on off road riding....lower the gearing, and bring it back to stock format, with the addition of the T7 for the road/gravel riding. There is no doubt that this video analysis is accurate in its underlying advice....If you want to go off road, hard riding....the T7 is no dirt bike, compared to real dirt bikes anyhow. The broken frame, subframe issue is testament to that. The skid plate is mud and gravel rock deflection plate at best compared to a true double cradle, high center of gravity dirt bike. Dropping down on logs and rocks needs to happen to ride off road. I watch riders slam these down as if it were a double cradle, and I cringe to their naive beliefs. I have often wandered what reinforcement the pros fabricators are designing to replace that little subframe. I minor problem really, as if you want to modify this bike for real dirt riding, is simple enough, just more money. It keeps the price low for everyone else who isn't a ricky racer. I bought the T7 for the engine, pure and simple. In 2015 I was shopping for a new bike, spotted the MT07, always wanted a twin, have owned mostly Yamahas and Suzuki over 45 years and when the T7 came out, I bought one, regardless of the frame shortcomings. I bought it for the engine, and basic format (not street). My intention is to never drop this bike and use it like a street bike mostly. I installed the lower link kit, not because I am short, I am 6 feet, but for the street riding improvement, and center of gravity. Well I will leave it at that. Its about time the T7 critiques are rolling in with sound analysis, taking it down a notch is what it needed, particularly with all the crashing going on out there on You Tube....its unbelievable how casual crashing has become...it seems. The T7 is what it is, and if you want to make it what it isn't, throw a lot of money and modifications at it, and wait for the manufacturers to redesign these ADV bikes. Its seems like they all have some weird flaw. My prediction is that they will get it right soon enough, but that could be 10 years away, and I will be too old by then.....so I am happy I lived from my first ADV bike....a 1979 Yamaha MX100, to a T7. I couldn't ask for more, and I am completely happy with it, because I have no inflated expectations, I have two bikes, off and on road, and simply love the engines on both my bikes. I couldn't ask for a better 45 years of motorcycling evolution and I was right in the middle of it.
I’m looking at a T7 for similar reasons. Light off-roading plus commuting to work. Keep the drz400e 2018 model for off-road work. Then I’ll have an option for camping on either bike also.
Interesting and informed observations, thanks!
The fastest bikes in races like paris dakar have always been twins, until they banned them and enforced the 450cc rule.
Other rallies, twins still rule.
If you see when everybody switched to 450s in baja it is at that same time in the early 2000s the FIM began banning big bikes from a lot of other major rallies and made 450s the standard.
That is why they race them in desert racing today. There arent competitive classes outside 450 and you wont get support racing a big bike so nobody does.
The factory gytr which we cant buy has set numerous records winning outright against factory race prototypes from honda ktm to counter your point. The gytr is the same chassis and engine and subframe.
Paragraphs are your friend, bro! 😂
Those rails are NOT a structural part of the frame.
When Yamaha released the bike they talked about this at length, they are only there to protect the bottom of the engine from impacts off road.
As such they could be removed and the bike ridden without them, the engine is the stressed member, not these.
I would prefer that they break rather than transferring the load into the frame and motor and potentially damaging them.
Highly likely that what broke these was an impact from below.
No doubt that is the problem....these T7's are not true dirt bikes, and riders are slamming them down on logs and such like they are,......which they are not. by design. You simply need a double cradle frame design for that. Stating the obvious.
@@greyfisher577 watch pol tarres pounding T7 racing hard enduros
Left rail $250 - Aus
Right rail $150 - Aus
And they are not part of the frame structure. They loop under the engine, the engine is the structural part.
Couple of questions, are you guys running standard suspension? What aftermarket bash plate do you use, or std?
Cheers
I heard apparently they're only there to hold the bash plates and other stuff. So I guess they only break when you bottom out the bike
The fracture occurs at the max stress point of the hole...
That seems clear. But it is also at the outer range of the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) from the weld. Lowering the position of the hole might prevent or at least take more time before the member breaks.
Actual field testing. It is videos such as this which can be treasures for a company to improve their products. Make what is already great even better.
Seems like they could at least offset the holes from one another at a minimum.
I think you do not know what that word you keep using means. The "stressed member" is not failing. If the engine block broke, then your words would match. The false down tubes that you are showing have broken are not "stressed", or better stated, not structural members of the frame. They provide physical protection for the front of the motor and a place to mount the skid plate. Indeed, they maybe to light for the job, as the bike is heavy and when you bash the bash plate that appears to be the weak/failure point. The good news is you can easily weld/repair/replace these nonstructural members quite easily, as long as the mounting holes line up you are good to go.
Love this guys reviews. Relevant, to the point, honest (read no bought opinions).
In the manual it’s stated that you are not supposed to lift the bike using the bashplate and it is because that pipe is not loadb bearing and i think you just found out they know what they are saying. I believe it’s not part of the load bearing frame it just hold the bashplate to not fall down to say. It is also replaceable. So you basically not breaked the frame just pipe holding the bashplate.
Good point and kudos to someone who read the manual! Still a great bike for the most part. Just a couple of limitations.
@@RIDEAdventures maybe you should revise your opinion on it now that you have more information?
I agree. Revised opinion with correction. 2 rental bikes that have been ridden in an unknown manner barely should make a review to be honest. Many GSes and other bikes break proper frames too.
I can think of two scenarios how this happened:
1. The bikes got hit hard in the bashplates, for example trying to go over a big log or stone and landing on it. If this is the case, why haven’t we seen more of these?
2. This one is the most likely cause: You had crashbars on the bikes that were mounted to these ”frame rails”, for example Outback Mototek. The bikes were dropped and the rigid crashbars transfered all the force to the pipe not designed to handle huge forces from that angle (since the rails are not structural parts of the frame).
And as somebody stated, those drilled holes may be designed fuses, meant to break before the actual frame.
As a T7 owner since early 2020, and a member in several T7 groups with tens of thousands of members on social media, I have never heard of this happening to anyone before, so I don’t think this is anything we all need to be afraid of.
I’m curious if a stronger chassis member would have prevented damage altogether or would those stresses be transferred to the engine case resulting in a larger (more expensive) issue?
Yep' I'm wondering if that hole was put there as a sacrificial point of breakage for that purpose.
Thanks for the no nonsense discussion. I wonder how many riders will ride hard enough to actually break these supports or if this is a" just a matter of time" issue? I certainly think that some of this can be attributed to the bikes being part of a rental fleet. Keep up the good work!
This bike can survive Pol Tarres, but cannot survive weekend warrior rental crowd? Something else is at play here. Did you follow up with Yamaha, what did they say? This looks to be the "side member sub-assembly" which only serves as a mounting structure for the "protector, engine". An impact on the engine protector would have to be very severe to cause the fail, but this might be the fail point that Yamaha has designed into the motorcycle.
Re: the "swing-arm" assembly, Husky uses this as well on their FE501S in contrast the the more conventional KTM 500EXCF. Dome love the Husky design, some love the KTM design. There are pros/cons for both. Again, Pol Tarres has ridden the Tenere 700 where others stuggle with a 250lb 300cc 2-stroke, over a Hard Enduro. There is no unicorn bike, but Mr. Yamaha seems to have done a very good job at getting close.
Cory from Camel ADV pointed out it is caused by the location of the crash bar mounting putting lateral stress on the frame rail.
Pol has probably broken multiple of those and his bike is far from stock. The rear exhaust hanger is just terrible. The motor was originally designed for a street bike so the anti squat swing arm wasn't exactly on purpose.
Wow, some people in this comment section have absolutely no class! Anyways, a really nice mod I did to my T7 was to get the Camel-Adv High Exhaust (Enduro Bend) and match that with a pair of R&G Racing Luggage Side Rails for soft luggage. Feel much better now about dropping the bike. The oem muffler design and hanger is just plain bizarre. As a very moderate adv rider my T7 is still the perfect bike. Well almost perfect - I would love to have electronic cruise control.
Eric, since you mentioned those turn signals bobbing I can’t unsee them! Thx a lot!
why no mention of yamaha reaction to this? does they honour this broken frame piece as guarantee and i also would like to hear yamaha answer aboot this issue
I'm going to help you out here.
Put on everything you were to ride helmet and all. Even if it's cross country. Full tank of gas. Seated on the bike with hands on the handlebars.
Your front wheel needs to be in a chock. And have your buddy measure your front suspension for sag. And the rear. Adjust your suspension for 2 1/2 inches front and rear. Now your bike is balanced and compliant. When breaking the bike won't nose dive or cause you to move back in the seat. Learn how to use both breaks instead of one. And get all your breaking done before you enter corners. What's even a greater idea is find a back road and ride using no breaks at all . Learn to roll in the throttle and out. Keep your hands on the handlebars like egg shells. Let the bike do the work. It will cut down on forearm pain from gripping so tight.
I raced 13 years professionally in AMA Superbike and the sane in WERA. A well balanced bike is a better handling bike whether it's off road or on the track. Suspension set up makes for quick reaction when a car pulls out in front if you. Giving you more confidence in handling. Have a great day.
The CP2 engine is amazing! The reason why I got my 2022 MT-07 is because a lot of the stunt riders get those bikes and they can take the abuse. I love the way the Tenere 700 looks and with that engine thats been tested for years just gives me a piece of mind that its going to last a long time!
Eric, the audio and video are excellent. That motorbike parked behind your desk is a gem!!!
love you guys for your content...but that stress chassis thing and antisquat, i do not agree with.
In my humble opinion frame it was ment for bashplate, not for the engine. Anyway still an easier and cheaper fix than a case.
Antisquat is just something it either works for you as a rider or it doesn't... for me the benefits of it far more exceds the downsides
I don't know if you used crash bars on your t7s but you must use Yamaha oem crash bars. Some aftermarket crash bars are attach to the tube that broke on your T7. These tubes are not designed to support the forces transmitted by the crash bar during a fall. Thanks
That’s makes sense, there has to be some reason this happened
what a great platform for reviews, no feelings, no gut instinct - rather, DATA from many hours on the fleet, and the gear, looking for many more - good job!!
I agree. If you want to jump triples, get a YZF 450. T7 jumps logs and wheelies through creekbeds. It doesn't jump school busses. Well, I mean, you could. When you use a cell phone as a hammer, it breaks.
Another part about the counter squat system. It requires a looser chain and the base model, non rally raid version, doesn't have rear chain guards/ chain guide. If the chain comes off it's susceptible to whip and break the front chain guard off which is bolted directly to the engine and can break off a hole into the block, non important area, ppl have jb welded it back on and gotten a proper chain guard. Not ideal, especially since it can spill out your oil on the trail before you know it.
Valuable information based on experience with renting the bikes. A stressed member chassis doesn't seem like a good idea for an adventure bike but I always thought yamaha or honda could design it to be tough enough. It would be interesting to know how many T7's you have in your fleet, knowing that two have had serious failures. Keep the re-reviews coming! Would like to see a similar follow up review for the Africa Twins.
Good call, we are overdue to report on all these Africa Twins have worked out. Short answer is: They have been outstanding, reliable, capable bikes for us since 2016. About 30 bikes and less than 5 problems ever. Hundreds of thousands of miles.
T7’s, across all ops, about 10 bikes so far. Overall great, just the few flaws.
Stressed member engine is used on basically every adventure bike out there. The issue is the crash bar mounting.
The part that failed isn't part of the chase, it just holds the bash plate.
@@RIDEAdventures I would love a report on the AT as well! After buying a new AT last summer, I've always wondered if I would have loved the T7 more. But your comment makes me think I didn't chose wrong. (Maybe I can get a T7 as a second bike for my wife.)
@ Jim I went from a 2017 Africa Twin to the 2021 T7 and am much happier at least for my style of riding. I like off-road and wheelies. The AT was a better road bike though. However I had MotoZ
H/T’s on it riding Black Bear Pass, alpine Loop and much more off road stuff. The T7 is easier to ride the tougher terrain.
I own a 2016 V Strom 1000 and a friend has a 1050. Side by side they seem almost identical structurally with a lot of the main components looking to be interchangeable.
Why do people think a fairly poor geometry of the chain, swing-arm to counter-shaft design (high counter-shaft sprocket) is a good idea? The high engine placement helps make the center of gravity, higher. It helps make the chain tension vary more during compression of the rear suspension. This helps make the chain more likely to come off if a little bit out of spec and bust the crankcase. Yes, there have been several cases of that happening to owners. (Keep the chain tension within spec!) I'm afraid too many reviewers drank the "Kool-Aid", like Fort-Nine did and then "spin-it" into a positive. It is called "good marketing" to turn a potentially poor design into sounding like a good feature for you to desire. My 2 cents worth. 😓 (I was completely in LOVE with the Tenere 700 in almost every way when it was released, but it was just more heavy than I wanted in an Dual-Purpose bike. I'm a BIG Yamaha Fan BTW)
EXCELLENT point about the chain tension that should have been addressed in this and our previous videos. (And Ryan’s :) Yeah, I was intrigued by the geometry at first, but it does have its flaws. Thanks very much for pointing that out, good one!
I noticed in the T7 manual it states that the lower "skid plate" is a cowling. So clearly that bashing down on this cowling with rider and bike weight and momentum will simply over cook the intended design. I wouldn't call it a flaw, the flaw would be the rider who thinks this type of bike can be treated the same as an actual dirt bike.....double cradle frame, high ground clearance, narrow low down. If a "dirtbike" doesn't have these three key features....its not a dirtbike. The result of these design features is problems. The worst of which I think is the lower engine area making contact with the ground too often, and one video I saw was a dude cooking it on a trail...then his bike went into a relatively shallow rut...and essentially stopped and began a cartwheel because the cowling was wider than the rut...and the rut was deeper than the ground clearance etc. I think the broken frame issue raised in this video is a result of rental abuse, and big drops onto the cowling....not designed for that.
Review from experience is the best way to do it. I am curious how the new Africa Twin 1100 is holding with all new electrical stuff on it. And I still claim
This is the best adv review channel. All the best
Thanks! Yes, this one was a reminder to do a long term Africa Twin review. Stay tuned for that.
@@RIDEAdventures Still answering to all comments. Awesome dedications to audience.
The front rails are made to be replaced and are essentially only to mount a skid plate to. It isn't a structural member. Those bars aren't stressed members. You shouldn't be giving reviews of these bikes if you don't understand this.
Yes, my description of their role, as it turns out, it was not entirely accurate. That they are under built is accurate, though, for what they are expected to do. Yamaha built them so we have to replace them though?
@RIDE Adventures yes, it's just like SxS A arms. They are meant to only take so much abuse so that the est of the bike doesn't take it. Any shock to the skidplate is taken through these, and if you hit something hard enough, they will give and not send it through the rest of the bike. Way cheaper than replacing a frame. I have a friend that replaced his before they failed just because he knows what he puts his bike through. It's way cheaper than a 3k dollar frame.
Thanks for the review and bringing the broken down tubes to everyone's attention. It will be good to hear if anyone else has experienced this.
I wonder though, if the broken down tube is related to fitting certain crash bars or bash plates? It seems a bit odd that the tube is sitting ajar from the frame with such a large gap, as if there has been some kind of misalignment. What accessories have been fitted? Is there anything common between the two bikes?
First reports I’ve heard of that engine cradle breaking. Luckily an easy fix. No doubt the popularity of this bike has done huge damage to Yamaha’s pumpkin patch supply of those surplus signals. Provided they’re not growing any more, they’ should go the way of the dodo soon.
Hah, those Florida Orange turn signals gotta go for sure! Thanks for watching.
It was designed to fail as it is less costly for that part than a complete engine case.
Would love to see you try and review aprilia touareg and hear your thoughts and experience with it… thanks for comming back to tube with new content.
Yep, a bike that’s on our list to review. Thanks for the note and for watching.
Thank you for this long term review. You also have KTM 790/890 as rentals. Can you make a video like this for them aswell?
Yes, soon. Thanks for watching.
@@RIDEAdventures yes, very interested too about KTM 790/890 video
Keep that strut as the sacrificial weak spot. If you strengthen it other more difficult parts may break.
True. It is designed to break.
This tube that breaks... because, like you said, this bike's motor is a stress member of the motorcycle frame, this tube that breaks is not a structural piece. Right? What is it? What is its function?
I don’t know if anyone is gonna claim the t7 is the perfect adv bike. Sadly it seems to be the best we have got for now in a reasonably priced reliable midsized adv. I don’t see the new v strom or transalp beating it off road
And I agree. Despite a few flaws, the T7 is still a great option, and definitely more of an athlete than the bikes you mentioned. The floor is open for the perfect middleweight though. Who’s going to build it? Harley never called me :)
give a chance to the transalp too
@vincent lehmann I will be pleasantly surprised if the transalp turns out to be an off road champ. The spec sheet says otherwise, but only time will tell for sure.
@@TheWrigleThe issue with the Honda app not being available for Americans is why I will never buy a Transalp. I would have to be some kind of broken, beaten down human to spend $10,000 with a company that openly hates me.
Consumers get treated like crap in America because they bring it on themselves.
Interesting video. I appreciate the comments added from other owners.
You do a great job at informing us all.
I’m very curious about your thoughts on the comparison of the T7 and Africa Twin. I don’t think (on paper) that they’re too different to compare.
Your observation is correct. We did make a video that reminds us of their similarities, and helps riders whittle the decision down to one thought: ruclips.net/video/a8E-e8fncTs/видео.html
I just sold my 2020 africa twin..... It is not designed for off road.....
1. The display takes forever to start up.
2. When you turn the bike off abs and traction control comes on and takes forever to toggle it off..
3. If you lay the bike down the plastics will absolutely explode. They are held together with plastic clips. It's a damn puzzle getting it together
4. The air filter is under the plastic that are a pain to take off..
If you plan on riding off road stay clear of that bike..
@@seanstrickland4970 I have one. Same year. I'm not bothered by the same things that seemed to bug you, but neither one is a KTM 500 EXC, which is what it sounds like you may want.
@@motojon76 I stay away from ktm. Any company that makes you pay for cruise control that is already on the bike should go out of business in my opinion.
To my point if you just plan on going on a ride to the store or a light fire road it is a great bike..... BUT it being marketed as this awesome badass do everything adv bike it is not......... Ive been deep on the forums and I think a lot of people agree with me. Bottom line if youre planning on riding hard stay away from this bike.
thanks for the response have a good one.
@@seanstrickland4970 I think it depends on how each one differentiates an adventure bike from an enduro bike.
Because of being in the light part of the adventure bikes and all of the beautiful Dakar styling, it’s very possible that people tend to use the T7 in a more abused way that it was designed for. Using it as an strictly adv the bike won’t break.
I’m guessing that perhaps Yamaha should go full on enduro bikes (eg KTM 350/450/500) or on big adv bikes (Africa, GS, 1290 or so).
Is the webstore shipping a Canada? Great to see Eric again!
Emad, thanks for the return visit. We’re not shipping to Canada quite yet, but please stay tuned for that :) RIDE on!
You really know. People should shut up and listen. I found you a little bit ago, and I learn something from each video I watch. I trust you. Thanks. ❤❤❤
I sold it after one season and 13 000km. Its missing power and wind buffeting no matter which screen i have used what setup it had was awfull, hoping transalp750 will be better match for my offroad ( light) type of riding and better onroad
The cb500x alluminum block is having quite flimsy connection to the front. Alluminum is famous for tiring and cracking under stress and vibration. Both 500x and Tenere are quite heavy bikes for rough ride.
Outstanding review Eric. As a T-7 owner, I will definitely keep an eye out and find out if any other T-7 owners have had the same issue. Thank so much for this review.
Thanks for saying, so, and yeah, good to keep an eye on these pieces when we do our bike inspections, folks. Subtle little thing, hard to see if the bike is all mudded-up after a day pf play.
What’s the combined mileage of all the T7’s in your fleet ?
Great part idea. Build it and they will come.
On our To Do list for sure : ) Thanks for watching.
Shame about the breaks. Honestly though, the Tenere 700 was always too damn top heavy to be close to perfect. Riding a T7, and then getting on a Tuareg it's shocking how different the weight is placed on bikes so similiar. - Frank
I agree, but still bought the T7 😉
It might not be a one time hard hit but could be just metal fatigue.
Pls, let us know with a follow-up video, what your investigation revealed. I am debating still whether should I go with the crash bar or not. From the video, I was not sure if your rental fleet uses them. Would crash bars help with this issue? Which crash bar solution do you prefer? Thank you
Most critical and balanced review I have seen. Definitely a successful and high value bike but good to know about its weaknesses.
Yea, still a great bike, but with a couple of points of concern. Thanks for watching.
Great inspection point! Thanks for the information.
No issues on my T7 bought May 2021. I put a swing arm protector on to prevent rubbing when the exhaust got a bit bent from drops and slides when off road. I kept the original exhaust for now. Camel adv have an interesting theory on how the skid plate supports might be caused. I never heard of the issue with the supports before.. I have outback mototek crashbars which clamp on these skid plate supports so I will keep an eye on that part. Thankyou for your videos.
Eric, it's awesome to see you back and posting. Always a great source of information. I think your points on the T7 are fair. As a T7 owner (and a basic-skills level ADV rider) I would offer this feedback on the T7.
- The frame members that broke on you guys are technically not "structural" frame members (IE they are not engine mount points), those frame members serve to support the bash plate, the lower part of the radiator, and a connection spot for the side cowls. Yeah, I agree - they should not break, but they are not really bearing the frame load of the bike. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to change out. Also, the support they do provide can be strengthened by adding lower frame guards (such as those from Rival) - which is a must for any serious ADV bikes. No excuse for them breaking - but I would put it in the same design/QA flaw as the exhaust mount. Yamaha needs to do better.
- I am not a good enough rider to really tell if the anti-squat is affecting my riding on the bike off-road - in general, I have found the bike to be very stable both on and off road, so I have no complaints about it, but I could see more experienced riders (like you) being able to tell the difference on that feature. If I have one large complaint on the bike's rideability, it's that it is super top heavy and takes a lot to get used to, especially off road. A lower/rear designed tank would make the bike easier to ride IMO.
- I think there a few new middle weights on the market now that I would like to see used heavily (like you guys have used the T7s) - most notably, the Aprilia Tuareg. (they now have a Rally version coming out) - very similar design to the T7, but with a few more features like rider controls and tubeless rims.
Informative, fair review.
The333, thanks, and oops, did I get that wrong? Don’t have a bike next to me now, but we might have looked at what that piece is actually doing incorrectly. The issue was communicated to me via photo/text just a couple weeks ago, as the bikes are in Baja now for the winter. - Nonetheless, yep, if it’s subject to any pounding the skid plate would take, then Yami definitely underbuilt. Congrats on the great bike though, one that will make for plenty of smiles over the coming miles. Thanks for pointing that out though and I stand corrected.
@@RIDEAdventures I think your assessment was fair - There are definitely design flaws on the bike that Yammi needs to address/strengthen and I think the broken side members is a valid one.
Cheers and great to see you posting again.
@@RIDEAdventures In fitting crash bars to mine which needed the bit you broke being undone, I think it had one bolt top and bottom and is hanging free if you undo the crash plate perhaps. A big hit on the crash plate may well snap the bit you show? I think they are just protection.
@@The333 Not a design flaw, not a structural component. Easily replaced if broken or bent (4 bolts).
@@MeerkatADV Ummmm yeah - which is what I said in my first comment verbatim - not sure why you needed to correct me... And yeah, sorry I would argue that is is a bit of a design flaw - in the same way that the exhaust hanger is a design flaw. - The side members are problematic for a number of reasons, not just breaking. They bend easily, they get wonked out of alignment super easily, they throw off the mounting points for the bash plate and the side cowls when they bend and they can potentially damage other stuff on the bike (even Cory from Camel said this - when his bent, they busted his radiator hose) - they are kind of stupid, quite frankly. At a minimum they should have a bit of lateral bracing on them either under the engine or under the radiator. I get that they are designed to bend and break before the frame does, but I have found them to be more problematic than useful, honestly. They were done as a cheaper way to reduce weight on the bike and take advantage of the engine as the main frame structure.
What are your thoughts about the Aprilia Tuareg 660?
Still haven’t ridden one personally, but we will get one and it reviewed soon.
The best adventure bike is what we have currently:)) I neved had opportunity to ride T7 hope one day I do!
Is it possible to do a mod to the structure of the frame? Thanks for sharing 👍 😊.
Probably just by replacing that entire strut/part. With something more appropriately durable. Thanks for watching.
Thank you very much. It's good to know. I will regularly check this part on my T7.
Aprillia coming on strong in the middleweight category.
Only a fool would buy the aprilia over the T7
As a T7 owner, thanks for this longer term review and heads-up about this potential breaking problem! About the Blinkers. I too do not like the originals, nor have I seen anything in the aftermarket world (that I'm aware of) that I can get excited about! I did do Camel ADV's Tail Tidy (love that) but kept the OEM blinkers until I can find better. I would be quite happy with the OEM LED ones that came stock on the Euro/Aussi bikes, but have not found a source for them in this country! If you know of a source, OR would like to put together a kit to be sold in the on-line store, I'd be interested! Cheers, and ride safe!
Still waiting on that Suzuki review. And wouldn't a dual sport be better instead of ADV's on some terrain? Honda XR650??
Yea, lots of bikes to review, we just haven't put an Suzukis into operations for a while. When we do, it'll be reviewed for sure. So many options out there......
Interesting, this is an issue that’s occurring with the Triumph Scrambler 1200 as well, I’ve seen probably 10-15 reports just myself, after I did a video about it. The problem with the scrambler is the kickstand is mounted to it - so if that piece breaks your kickstand starts to lose its ability to hold up the bike. Also, on another note I have a friend that had the neck tube on his T7 crack at the weld - not sure if that’s common but that’s a much worse issue!
Hi there, My Dad was NZ Import Manager for Triumph and Yamaha, In 70s and 80s, I guess you’ve let Yamaha know about these serious frame failures in a email at all
With a bit of fabrication that parallel twin would be a great engine swap to a WR chassis.
yamaha has used those same blinkers for like the past 20 years
I've been daydreaming of a mid-size Africa Twin - then Honda released the Transalp. Looks disappointing... any thoughts?
Have yet to see it in person. Probably a solid offering from Honda, although it has a few flaws like exhaust routing and things like that. We will report when we get one.
Side impact and the crash bars being used is the result.
I’ve treated my T7 like a dirt bike, jumping it with fully loaded panniers hundreds of times and those braces appear pristine on my bike. That said, 2 important mods may be contributing to a lack of cracks or breaking. First, I have a full rally raid suspension kit so bottom-outs are not a constant occurrence like they were with the stock suspension. Second, I have a full Heed crashbar system which serves as additional bracing/support between the motor and frame? We’re the bikes with the broken braces bone stock?
Aprilla thoughts?
Thanks, this is a fair balanced experienced based review, these are helpful because you have a fleet of bikes that are all used in similar conditions that provides good perspective comparing one against the others and also providing pros/cons. We need more objective videos with proof data points like you provided in this one vs. brand fan videos which are unfortunatly too common on YT. Looks like you may have captured a potential chasis flaw that Yamaha can quickly address and simply.
Thanks, and yea, if Yamaha made new frame struts just a bit more robust, it would probably take care of the issue. Maybe someone else will have to do it though.- It’s going to be hard for us to catch a fracture in the moment that it happens, but we will do our best! Thanks for watching the channel.
Hi, Eric! What about Aprilia Tuareg 660?
The hole might be a weak link. better to break that than the engine block.
Good point. Thanks for watching.
Weird on that "indication" (the PC version of break) and design. When taking Engineering at University we spent a whole class on exactly these types of "Stress Risers". Depending on the pinning on the ends and the lateral, linear, and torsional loads to this member it looks like an accident waiting to happen OR a "fuse" so something else, more critical, doesn't break.
But like you said, you have no idea how they were being used at failure.
BTW, Great review.
Now you have me curious.
its not a stressed part. its a bar that holds the sump guard he is talking about stuff he does no nothing about.
@@adriantompson most likely its side crash bar that is ramming into that tube from the side and brakes it. There is one design of crash bars that might be contributing to this. Its a rental bike :) its dropped on the side all the time.
For sure a stronger third party part would sell like hotcakes! :) I haven't had this issue on mine and it's as you said an easy fix but I think everyone taking these bikes on hard trails should be aware so they can monitor the mount. To me from the pictures you provided the mount has been broken for a while before it finally gave out completely? (Surface rust)
I like the naked Honda you at the background. I owned. CB450sc and loved it.
What states do you rent in? I’ve rented out my own bikes using TR. I’d love to try renting on vacation. Especially bikes I’m considering buying!
I'm running Heed crash bars so those members become reinforced. The other issues are superficial
interesting feature thanks, breaking parts- weld up the hole? how heavy are they perhaps carry spares if on a big trip, poor suspension action due to swingarm geometry- how would you differentiate that from poor damper/spring action? indicators- well not really worth a conversation. Possibly the reason for the countershaft a little high is the short gearbox design with gear shafts stacked vertically as opposed to horizontal, I doubt that its an "anti squat" design. also trying to keep the engine as high as possible for ground clearance issues, clearly the engine is a off the shelf engine not dedicated for this model. Good point what is Kawasaki doing nothing comparable in this market sector, The Suzy is in a different bike park in reality. Great info and honesty thank you would love to hear more.
Could you retrofit a slide-over reinforcement?
Good question. Need to take the piece off again to see if it would be straight enough to slip over either end. A “slip-in” would work once it’s broken in half though.
Which crashbars fitted to the broken bikes ?
Will the chassis fix move the problem somewhere else, i.e the engine block?
Could we have a multi-year update on the cb500x’s?
Yes 👍
HAPPY TO WATCH YOUR LATEST VIDEO EXCELLENT LOVEABLE TOUCH OF TECHNIQUE AND PASSION FOR US REGARDS
These issues, like other comparative items make the Aprilia Tuareg the Uber T7.... hell, they basically upgraded and made a Super T7 with 2020+ Tech. - Have you considered it Eric?
if you turn a road bike into a dirt bike there will always be that 50/60 kg weigh penalty over any single plus the higher COG and other design compromises. So there will never be the perfect bike and you either accept the lesser road manners of a single or go for comfort and compromise dirt capability plus higher stress on the frame. I go for light weight every time and it’s even more critical as you age.
Thought you were running 790 adventures? At least that is how it looked from your earlier videos. pretty sure it was mentioned you were running them on tours down in Chilean Patagonia.
My triumph rally 900 subframe cracked in a similar way where a hole had been drilled.,
Thanks for the interesting views!
2 broke of how many?
Thanks for sharing this. I had no idea there were issues with the chassis breaking.
There isn't this dude just didn't read the manual and jacked in the wrong spot.
@@Toonces311 good to know. Thanks.
Exactly when did we say we jacked the bike? Listen before commenting.
@@RIDEAdventures how else is that going to break right there bro the manual says don't do it otherwise it will happen. Also thanks for the lecture cool neck brace
Well, we’ve never jacked them. So, you tell us how they broke. - And if Yamaha designed a bike that can’t be lifted by the skid plate, that was a huge error as well.
every time I drop the t7 on the right side I always give that exhaust a little kick with my boot, just to be sure
hi, what about top heaviness? some people say that from a certain roll angle they fail to keep it upright and when dropped they struggle to lift it up again. i dont own one, but it's around quite often.
Lots of riders have said it’s top heavy. I haven’t ever thought it was too bad, but then again, am more accustomed to handling much heavier bikes. - Thanks for watching.
A P R I L I A 660 . . . 😎
make a stronger replacement mount ... +1
Good report Eric, you have a true testing ground for the machine. I wonder if Corey from Camel has broken any frames as he is a big guy that rides incredibly hard?
Cory’s riding is the ultimate test of a T7. I understand he hasn’t broken a frame
Make a video on the chassis fix.
Make the part, I will buy it !
The key point is Rental.. people ride ‘‘em like a rental … no theirs so ride em hard… like the jackass crew did in one of their movies 😅
Us this recorded at the Broken Spoke?
Excellent review! Make the part please!
that peice you broke is not a stresed part off the chase. its just a bar that holds the sump guard . have a better look. as to your antey sqot keep kicking you up the arse. put 4 more clicks compresion and that stops that. its got nothing to do with the bike design. as for the new suzuki was told its not desighed for jumping so not much good for us that jump adventure bikes.