I'd like to see your takes on the landslide of videos titled something like- "I restarted my game, and made it again better". I have seen hundreds of these videos on my feed, and there seems to be some sort of trend here, and it makes me a little worried for the young developers that are looking to these videos and modelling their own project management skills after them.
I nearly gave up after the first few minutes because it seemed like one of those lazy "review" channels that just plays the video and doesn't react but this was fantastic, great insights.
I feel like a lot of indie game devs cling too much to their own concepts. There's this taboo about experimenting and this eerie need to stay "niche". I've seen a lot of people spend months on monetized personal projects without even knowing who they are making the game for, and they expect it to be somehow appealing and find an audience by itself. Most of the issues discussed here are choices which could have been corrected since the beginning with a few small prototypes
Your reflection about finding yourself drawn to nostalgic games, only to realize you are not twelve anymore, is profound insight for game devs as well as gamers too. I guess that's the formula that explains the success of low-poly PS1 games featuring adult matters like recent Critical Reflex games and similar ones
Night in the Woods springs to mind too. It's nice to have a game with a twee or childish art style, but if you want adults to play the game, it still needs to be an adults' game, either mechanically or thematically, in some way.
It reminds me of a thing I heard somewhere on the internet, which went roughly like this: "Of course you can't get those feelings again; those games were life-changing. And now your life has been changed, you can't go back to being unchanged to feel the same thing again."
@@IndieGameClinic Good luck on that! But sadly I don't think it's a very well-known creator who I'm failing to quote, so it won't be very easy. It was definitely inside of a video essay type video, though.
Your mention of getting excited about a game and then discovering that it's a genre which you've grown past is exactly the experience I've had with point and click adventure games. I loved them as a kid, but as an adult they just feel so slow and limited in available actions, plus sort of just a matter of exhausting everything which there is to click on to find the right things or information.
@@APrettyGoodChannel I feel like Telltale and Don’t Nod did a good job of reviving them a decade ago, but they made a lot of changes to how they worked to make them flow better. I think anyone making a point and click based purely on nostalgia for ScummV Lucasarts games is probably going in the wrong direction.
Really strong points you mentioned throughout the video, I'm learning a lot of things simply hearing your perspective on them. You're really good at seeing the deeper meanings and reasons behind things, while also explaining them in a clear way, which is awesome, keep up the good content. The "steam players want deeper games" point was especially true, I'll point out a Metroidvania here called Pseudoregalia which did really well for that exact reason. It itches that nostalgic feeling while keeping you hooked on deeper mechanics.
it's SUPER tough to leverage people's nostalgia for a genre while also giving them what their adult self wants! I think I might do a whole video on this soon.
Enjoyed this video immensely, it's nice to dissect potential issues in creating or marketing indie games and I'm keeping these topics in the back of my mind. Thanks for your work!
So glad I found your channel. You are absolutely on point with your feedback. A lot of devs don't like to swallow tough pills because their ego might shatter. I've known a lot and it's always the same. You need to fail A LOT, to start being humble and design a game for a player, even if that player is you, before being let down by your own choices. And, to be clear, if you are designing a game for yourself, you better be a picky gamer, if not, you won't solve any pain-point to the player base you are aiming.
really like how this "reaction video" takes the discussion of "failed gamedev journey" topic further i mean, the topic itself is kind of inherent in game development process, since doing post-mortem is already in the gamedev culture but when you took several video samples and discussed it, we get more insight about the topic looking forward to see your future "design prof react" video about various "constantly popped-up" game dev video topics
Definitely a good video, and it's great you were able to find three games with different scopes and fundamental problems. There's definitely something to be said about the first two not broaching the idea that the game experience just wasn't appealing; to me it highlights the need to get feedback from someone who will be honest with you and has good insight.
I really liked your insight! I had my heart set on the way I wanted my game to look and play, but I gotta remember who's going to dig the premise and want to put money and hours into it! Yeah, please keep making videos like this and I will definitely try to learn from them!
Actually i really enjoy these reaction type videos, they are super insightful and as someone who isnt a game dev, it got me really captivated. I like the way you approach the videos calmly and explain the faults rationally
Great video and good thoughts. I hope these 3 individuals/groups somehow find this video because i feel like there is a lot to learn for them (both for their views about these fails but also some broader ideas about self-reflecting). I love the idea of sequels for indie games and the 2nd dude actually made me re-think using numbers for my potential sequels. I haven't released anything yet and only focusing on 1 game atm. But i am using sequels as my "great idea but i wanna avoid scopecreep" dumpster. I have separate section on my files for ideas like these. I feel like this both helps me to focus on my current game but also IF i ever were to create sequel for my game i can look at the ideas from this list and between game 1 and 2 make few prototypes testing these mechanics.
Hey! Thanks for checking out my video and providing feedback! It's honestly crazy how I, since I released that video, have gained a completely different perspective on it from everything that I've learned since. Like, I totally agree. The advertisement (you're right, I keep referring to it as marketing, which is wrong) is not the reason it failed. I could've done more, sure, but it's also just not a great game that's worthy of everyone's attention. There are so many reasons it didn't succeed, but I am at least taking that with me to my next projects😁 Thanks again!
@@TheShelfman it’s a cool idea and I think what you showed looked pretty good, just needs… something else. Looking forward to seeing/hearing more from ya.
It's always funny how the developers in these videos try to figure out why their "brilliant" idea failed, yet in the footage they show there's nothing exciting going on
@@stravvman gotta respect the amount of work either way, but yeah I always find it revealing when the gameplay footage doesn’t really show much happening beyond the basics of what you’d expect in that genre.
I think the problem with Koredex's walk cycle is that it's sped up too much compared to the intent? Like, the leg movements are small and fast in a kinda unnatural way. They probably got a walk cycle and then increased the movement speed for the game without thinking about how the animation looks now, or with the intent to fix it later being quashed by that running out of money.
I hope the devs reacted in this video could react properly. I don't mind having more of this video in the future but I prefer the reacted videos have gameplay preview so we all could see what their games look like.
I wouldn't really describe these as reaction videos, but more analysis. Most reaction content is people watching a video for 10 mins and saying "damn that was crazy."
That's just the rotten apples spoiling the barrel IMO. It's still a barrel of apples regardless of how good the insides are. (Also, I don't suppose you happen to be a jacksfilms fan?)
@@endorb I haven’t watched jacksfilms. Tbh I don’t watch much at the moment. Very into Jacob Geller and jreg, and recently April Clucks. Most of the tubers I watch are not about games, or if they are it’s a secondary thing they do.
@@IndieGameClinic It was more for Paul. Basically Jacksfilms is a youtuber who started in 2006 and is still going, and he's over the past year been slowly making anti-content-theft a bigger part of his identity - the "damn that's crazy" callout specifically made me think of him. He has most of his reaction video focused content on an alternate channel called jjjacksfilms
Like the way you talk about this video. And a good video of failure picked. Was engaged, and agree that Johnny is big wrong about his new style. Should add more JUUUUICE and combat fun.
16:01 Aight this is completely off topic and a little inappropriate but you're the first person i've heard use the word "cum" to combine two words (as in Animal Crossing-cum-Adventure Time). I've read a book once where the word was used like that (they talked about a street-cum-festival or something like that), and I was very confused as to what that's supposed to mean. I then looked it up but still could'nt believe you can use the word like that. Partly because i'm a non-native, probably partly because of brainrot. But I never believed anyone who spoke english actually says that until I heard you saying it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, thanks for clearing that up for me! lol
@@YVoiceY haha! Tbh it’s not something I use that often in day to day. You made me have to look it up and it’s Latin for with/together which is why it’s used in American schooling eg “Magna cum laude”
Wow it was a bit painful watching the second game, it really feels the dev is quite out of touch on what really is wrong with the game. He had a massive success on consoles due to a bunch of reasons, timing being one of them, and then proceeded to extrapolate from that that everything he does afterwards is gold. His point about numbered sequels might actually hold some truth but at a limited scale. It's not gonna make or break, but there is potentially some sales lost due to that. THEN AGAIN by having the original title in the name will probably bring back some old customers so I would guess it evens out.
Honestly, I think "cutesy interpretation of orcs" would absolutely have a novelty value that could sell, if it was leaned into and made to be an integral contrast through which to see the game.
I might sound harsh, but the second game looks like a student project i saw that someone made as an asset flip in 2 months. I think that artstyle is not very marketable, because it screems asset flip or "like every other game".
![The Secret to GOOD Game Ideas 💡 [Practical Ideation Methods Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LMOCQNcMleg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Secret to GOOD Game Ideas 💡 [Practical Ideation Methods Explained]](/img/tr.png)
A lot of devs worry about the color of their leaves or how they trim the tree when the roots are rotten or the soil can't support that kind of plant.
I'd like to see your takes on the landslide of videos titled something like- "I restarted my game, and made it again better". I have seen hundreds of these videos on my feed, and there seems to be some sort of trend here, and it makes me a little worried for the young developers that are looking to these videos and modelling their own project management skills after them.
Good you called him out on "Most people don't want to play as orcs" - the franchise where you play as literally worms sold 75 mil copies.
I nearly gave up after the first few minutes because it seemed like one of those lazy "review" channels that just plays the video and doesn't react but this was fantastic, great insights.
@@jimmyryan5880 thanks Jimmy! I tried to clip out all of dead time and focus on helpful things.
Great video. Actually really in depth analysis as apposed to just reactions.
I feel like a lot of indie game devs cling too much to their own concepts. There's this taboo about experimenting and this eerie need to stay "niche".
I've seen a lot of people spend months on monetized personal projects without even knowing who they are making the game for, and they expect it to be somehow appealing and find an audience by itself.
Most of the issues discussed here are choices which could have been corrected since the beginning with a few small prototypes
Your reflection about finding yourself drawn to nostalgic games, only to realize you are not twelve anymore, is profound insight for game devs as well as gamers too. I guess that's the formula that explains the success of low-poly PS1 games featuring adult matters like recent Critical Reflex games and similar ones
Night in the Woods springs to mind too. It's nice to have a game with a twee or childish art style, but if you want adults to play the game, it still needs to be an adults' game, either mechanically or thematically, in some way.
It reminds me of a thing I heard somewhere on the internet, which went roughly like this: "Of course you can't get those feelings again; those games were life-changing. And now your life has been changed, you can't go back to being unchanged to feel the same thing again."
@ I will try and hunt this quote down. I’m planning a video about nostalgia in game dev and it would be helpful to find it.
@@IndieGameClinic Good luck on that! But sadly I don't think it's a very well-known creator who I'm failing to quote, so it won't be very easy. It was definitely inside of a video essay type video, though.
Your mention of getting excited about a game and then discovering that it's a genre which you've grown past is exactly the experience I've had with point and click adventure games. I loved them as a kid, but as an adult they just feel so slow and limited in available actions, plus sort of just a matter of exhausting everything which there is to click on to find the right things or information.
@@APrettyGoodChannel I feel like Telltale and Don’t Nod did a good job of reviving them a decade ago, but they made a lot of changes to how they worked to make them flow better. I think anyone making a point and click based purely on nostalgia for ScummV Lucasarts games is probably going in the wrong direction.
Really strong points you mentioned throughout the video, I'm learning a lot of things simply hearing your perspective on them. You're really good at seeing the deeper meanings and reasons behind things, while also explaining them in a clear way, which is awesome, keep up the good content. The "steam players want deeper games" point was especially true, I'll point out a Metroidvania here called Pseudoregalia which did really well for that exact reason. It itches that nostalgic feeling while keeping you hooked on deeper mechanics.
it's SUPER tough to leverage people's nostalgia for a genre while also giving them what their adult self wants! I think I might do a whole video on this soon.
Enjoyed this video immensely, it's nice to dissect potential issues in creating or marketing indie games and I'm keeping these topics in the back of my mind. Thanks for your work!
So glad I found your channel. You are absolutely on point with your feedback.
A lot of devs don't like to swallow tough pills because their ego might shatter. I've known a lot and it's always the same.
You need to fail A LOT, to start being humble and design a game for a player, even if that player is you, before being let down by your own choices.
And, to be clear, if you are designing a game for yourself, you better be a picky gamer, if not, you won't solve any pain-point to the player base you are aiming.
Awesome video ! Would love to have more videos where you select one game and you make a deep analysis of its game design
That's what the majority of my videos are! Here's a good place to start: ruclips.net/p/PL3n3ExgUASw4AJWyYTdCDQYdHiheSP3er
@@IndieGameClinic awesome I was looking for this kind of channel. Thanks you very much for that !
really like how this "reaction video" takes the discussion of "failed gamedev journey" topic further
i mean, the topic itself is kind of inherent in game development process, since doing post-mortem is already in the gamedev culture
but when you took several video samples and discussed it, we get more insight about the topic
looking forward to see your future "design prof react" video about various "constantly popped-up" game dev video topics
@@awanama_ I will probably make it a monthly thing. It’s an easy format to do, no shortage of stuff to respond to.
Shalnor Legends has a 64% user rating. Shalnor Legends II has a 66% user rating. It's kind of a glaring issue that is being ignored.
@@BrannoDev maybe next time I do a round of these I’ll actually play the games too.
This was so interesting, would love to see more reviews!
Appreciate it. This playlist is a good place to start ruclips.net/p/PL3n3ExgUASw4AJWyYTdCDQYdHiheSP3er&si=GUe0Jjg1rmj9xDVl
I actually really enjoyed this video format because you gave great feedback
Definitely a good video, and it's great you were able to find three games with different scopes and fundamental problems. There's definitely something to be said about the first two not broaching the idea that the game experience just wasn't appealing; to me it highlights the need to get feedback from someone who will be honest with you and has good insight.
I honestly picked them pretty at-random based on view counts and thumbnail.
I really liked your insight! I had my heart set on the way I wanted my game to look and play, but I gotta remember who's going to dig the premise and want to put money and hours into it! Yeah, please keep making videos like this and I will definitely try to learn from them!
Actually i really enjoy these reaction type videos, they are super insightful and as someone who isnt a game dev, it got me really captivated. I like the way you approach the videos calmly and explain the faults rationally
@@bonk6561 I appreciate that! I’m too old and worn out to be shouting at anything.
Great video and good thoughts. I hope these 3 individuals/groups somehow find this video because i feel like there is a lot to learn for them (both for their views about these fails but also some broader ideas about self-reflecting).
I love the idea of sequels for indie games and the 2nd dude actually made me re-think using numbers for my potential sequels.
I haven't released anything yet and only focusing on 1 game atm. But i am using sequels as my "great idea but i wanna avoid scopecreep" dumpster. I have separate section on my files for ideas like these. I feel like this both helps me to focus on my current game but also IF i ever were to create sequel for my game i can look at the ideas from this list and between game 1 and 2 make few prototypes testing these mechanics.
Good insights. Hopefully they continue making games. Indie is hard as hell and I hate to see anyone give up.
@@wdavis81x for sure. Creativity is a compulsion, it will come out somewhere even it’s not specifically in games.
Hey! Thanks for checking out my video and providing feedback! It's honestly crazy how I, since I released that video, have gained a completely different perspective on it from everything that I've learned since.
Like, I totally agree. The advertisement (you're right, I keep referring to it as marketing, which is wrong) is not the reason it failed. I could've done more, sure, but it's also just not a great game that's worthy of everyone's attention. There are so many reasons it didn't succeed, but I am at least taking that with me to my next projects😁
Thanks again!
@@TheShelfman it’s a cool idea and I think what you showed looked pretty good, just needs… something else. Looking forward to seeing/hearing more from ya.
We shoud adapt the business model canvas to a marketing model canvas for indie devs to check and improve before going blind
Thanks for the videos! A lot of good bits of knowledge and thoughts in this one.
It's always funny how the developers in these videos try to figure out why their "brilliant" idea failed, yet in the footage they show there's nothing exciting going on
@@stravvman gotta respect the amount of work either way, but yeah I always find it revealing when the gameplay footage doesn’t really show much happening beyond the basics of what you’d expect in that genre.
@@IndieGameClinic it's true, you have to respect the very fact that they actually finished developing their game. I, for one, can't even do that!
I really enjoyed this insight. Thank you!
I think the problem with Koredex's walk cycle is that it's sped up too much compared to the intent? Like, the leg movements are small and fast in a kinda unnatural way. They probably got a walk cycle and then increased the movement speed for the game without thinking about how the animation looks now, or with the intent to fix it later being quashed by that running out of money.
I really liked this format. Reaction videos can be great when done respectfully and for constructive reasons. 🍻
I love analysis videos but (often) hate reaction videos. This is closer to analysis ^^
Really great video, thank you for making it
Thank you for making this video
All good pointers! Me now much older does not like the same childish games I use too.Even if I have great memories of the games of the past.
I hope the devs reacted in this video could react properly. I don't mind having more of this video in the future but I prefer the reacted videos have gameplay preview so we all could see what their games look like.
The majority of my videos are based around playing gameplay rather than looking at other videos: ruclips.net/p/PL3n3ExgUASw4AJWyYTdCDQYdHiheSP3er
Incredibly insightful video
I wouldn't really describe these as reaction videos, but more analysis. Most reaction content is people watching a video for 10 mins and saying "damn that was crazy."
damn, that was crazy
That's just the rotten apples spoiling the barrel IMO. It's still a barrel of apples regardless of how good the insides are. (Also, I don't suppose you happen to be a jacksfilms fan?)
@@endorb I haven’t watched jacksfilms. Tbh I don’t watch much at the moment. Very into Jacob Geller and jreg, and recently April Clucks. Most of the tubers I watch are not about games, or if they are it’s a secondary thing they do.
@@IndieGameClinic It was more for Paul. Basically Jacksfilms is a youtuber who started in 2006 and is still going, and he's over the past year been slowly making anti-content-theft a bigger part of his identity - the "damn that's crazy" callout specifically made me think of him. He has most of his reaction video focused content on an alternate channel called jjjacksfilms
Like the way you talk about this video. And a good video of failure picked. Was engaged, and agree that Johnny is big wrong about his new style. Should add more JUUUUICE and combat fun.
Give us the JUUUUUICE!
JUUUUUUUUUUUU… artistic inhale…. UUUUUUUICE
They learned that they are mid.
16:01 Aight this is completely off topic and a little inappropriate but you're the first person i've heard use the word "cum" to combine two words (as in Animal Crossing-cum-Adventure Time). I've read a book once where the word was used like that (they talked about a street-cum-festival or something like that), and I was very confused as to what that's supposed to mean. I then looked it up but still could'nt believe you can use the word like that. Partly because i'm a non-native, probably partly because of brainrot. But I never believed anyone who spoke english actually says that until I heard you saying it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, thanks for clearing that up for me! lol
@@YVoiceY haha! Tbh it’s not something I use that often in day to day. You made me have to look it up and it’s Latin for with/together which is why it’s used in American schooling eg “Magna cum laude”
Wow it was a bit painful watching the second game, it really feels the dev is quite out of touch on what really is wrong with the game. He had a massive success on consoles due to a bunch of reasons, timing being one of them, and then proceeded to extrapolate from that that everything he does afterwards is gold. His point about numbered sequels might actually hold some truth but at a limited scale. It's not gonna make or break, but there is potentially some sales lost due to that. THEN AGAIN by having the original title in the name will probably bring back some old customers so I would guess it evens out.
He was tidying up the kitchen after the living room got ransacked, as it were
super helpful!
I'll get into steam right now and play a game that's like the one, I'm developing atm!
play two!
@@IndieGameClinic right!
I think the orc+cute aesthetic is a big reason. If the MC was a cute anime girl, it woulda sold more.
Honestly, I think "cutesy interpretation of orcs" would absolutely have a novelty value that could sell, if it was leaned into and made to be an integral contrast through which to see the game.
I might sound harsh, but the second game looks like a student project i saw that someone made as an asset flip in 2 months. I think that artstyle is not very marketable, because it screems asset flip or "like every other game".
I really like that Gamecubey kind of style. I just want the gameplay to look exciting.
7:45 - who is this guy quoting? I watched the video, there is no actual citation. Himself?
Watch this blow up when Asmongold or Pirate Software reacts to you reacting to these videos ❤
ahaha! fingers crossed
if asmongold ever reacted to anything i'd made, i'd unalive out of disgust
@@natalimoina Haha please don't.
U r a cool dude
@@bonk6561 tell all your friends, and any pets