FINALLY! - Helldivers 2 Made It Make Sense & NEW MECH Major Order!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- We've got a New Mech to chase after!
Here's the latest in Helldivers 2 News!
We failed the previous Major Order, and already have a new, 5-day Major Order that will give us a new Exosuit! I also wanted to discuss if Game Master Joel needs to re-evaluate the numbers required to finish these Major Orders. And finally, there is an excellent Time-To-Kill Reddit discussion that perfectly breaks down what happens with weapons, balancing and time-to-kill!
Thanks so much for your continued support!
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Here's the TTK Reddit Post Link! Go check it out and leave a rating and comment!
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CHAPTERS
0:00 - Intro
1:03 - We Failed! (Again)
2:14 - Come On Joel?!
4:05 - TTK Is NOT The Problem...
10:34 - New MECH Major Order Incoming!
13:47 - Hit Subscribe & Join My Helldiver Discord
Enlist in the Helldivers and join the fight for freedom across a hostile galaxy in a fast, frantic, and ferocious third-person shooter.
URGENT BROADCAST - SUPER EARTH ARMED FORCES
Freedom. Peace. Democracy.
Your Super Earth-born rights. The key pillars of our civilization.
Of our very existence.
But the war rages on. And everything is once again under threat.
Join the greatest military force the galaxy has ever seen and make this a safe and free place to live.
HELLDIVERS™ 2 is a 3rd person squad-based shooter that sees the elite forces of the Helldivers battling to win an intergalactic struggle to rid the galaxy of the rising alien threats. From a 3rd person perspective, players use a variety of weapons (pistols, machine guns, flamethrowers) and stratagems (turrets, airstrikes, etc.) to shoot and kill the alien threats. Players can also aim down the sights for a more accurate 1st person camera view. Combat is accompanied by frequent sprays of blood and dismemberment as players exterminate the alien forces or players and squad mates are hit by environmental explosions or friendly fire. Enemy encampments and battlefield environments depict bloodstains and dismembered corpses.
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▶▶Helldivers 2 TTK made easy to understand!◀◀
www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cynu37/ttk_time_to_kill_is_not_the_problem_optimal_ttk/
Here's the TTK Reddit Post Link! Go check it out and leave a rating and comment!
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CHAPTERS
0:00 - Intro
1:03 - We Failed! (Again)
2:14 - Come On Joel?!
4:05 - TTK Is NOT The Problem...
10:34 - New MECH Major Order Incoming!
13:47 - Hit Subscribe & Join My Helldiver Discord
Everyone that wants this mech need to be prepared to defend Ustotu I foresee the bots attacking this planet to cut us off from Varylia 5 and if Ustotu falls we will lose major ground on this MO
2nd
I don't think Joel will do anything too egregious. We've been on a Major Order losing streak as of late, we had a piss poor war bond, patrol spawns are still janked, we didn't get the last offered unlock (the mines), and I don't think Joel has that range of freedom. By that I mean assign rewards and bait to major orders. So I think this is genuinely something Arrowhead is going to try to get into our hands (because if it doesn't then the game remains stale and balance will continue to tumble.) I'm not saying nothing will happen, but I don't think there's going to be defense after defense after defense like we've had on a few other major orders. He's not going to just give it to us, but at the same time he's also not going to not do his job either.
@@steeljawX exactly I’m betting that Ustotu will have a defense campaign and if it falls we will lose access to Varylia and liberating Varylia will NOT stop the attack on Ustotu because Choepessa has bot supply lines to Ustotu also
Reading this post, I finally understand why people like the scorcher and dominator. It never made sense to me because I'd usually run weapons with very short optimal TTK, and relatively speaking the scorcher and dominator felt slightly worse than other options.
At the same time, with my loadouts, when I'm 'on', I feel immortal, but when I'm even a bit off, the game suddenly feels impossible. Putting it in perspective, that's because my loadouts have horrible non-optimal TTK.
General Brasch fact for the day: General Brasch once used the Quasar Cannon to kill 3 Stalkers, 6 Chargers and 2 Bile Titans, then it recharged
I love a good hellbomb multikill
@@dogishappy0 General Brasch doesn't need hellbombs, cause he already has two fists
@@Tinytraveler he has hellfists
@@Tinytraveler Cause he has two fists? He could liberate a planet by sneezing at it.
@@Tinytraveler "see what they need to mimic a fraction of our power" lol
What sucks is that a lot of us have work during the major order duration. So we really cant find a lot of time to dive. Why cant the major order just be over the weekend? Make it manageable.
It will be, it ends on memorial day
Other time zones and other work schedules? Hard to just have to MO straddle your time off alone.
@@lukemehalick370 yeah true.
Thats what war is, either you are there or you are not, sucks to be you
I'm in the same boat, I usually just have to watch them go by and make a minor contribution when I get home.
I love requiring 9-15 shots with the Railgun to kill a single Bile Titan. Don’t worry about the other 3 chasing my teammates around, I was able to kill a single one after 3 minutes of kiting! Great!
Sounds like u suck and are not playing the game right...the rail gun was never meant to kill a bile titan..it only could because of a playstation bug...get over urself
The rail gun was my go to for biles. 2-3 head shot on 80%+ charge. It was a high risk high reward weapon. Now it’s a high risk low reward. It’s not worth using
its almost like jamming the square into the circle hole doesnt work :O
know what else takes forever to kill a titan with? laser cannon :OOOOO
Switch weapons dawg stop whining railgun is not meant for that
I love requiring 2-3 shots with the rockets to kill a single bug that is as tall as 3 story building and is built to kill us. Suck it up and get gud as much as that is said it’s true. I’m sowey you can’t one tap with the railgun anymore but really crying about it months after is crazy
The gap between optimal ttk vs ttk is way worse than i thought. It really dose explains a lot. Skilled players can blast through the enemies, but throw a couple randos together and that bile titans going to be your new companion for the foreseeable future.
yep, right now the game is not much casual player friendly that perhas will never understand that the autocannon can't kill the biletitan and is confused on why 10 are chasing him and he can't kill them
@@robfus Autocannon can 100% kill a bile titan. In several ways. Attacking an opened weak spot or, my personal favorite, stand under it...point up......pray for Democracy....empty the clip
@@JayPlaysEverything never saw that working. Im pretty sure while you were shooting at it someone with the eat actually killed him. Maybe it can kill it if you shoot under it and it was already damged. But an Autocannon alone i never saw it do shit on a Bile Titan
@@robfus autocannon sentry, yes. Autocannon, the support weapon, hell no. Autocannon can 6 shot in the belly of factory strider though.
Yeah, and especially with the nature of the Game, its difficult to aim at the optimal ttk spots. And also i dont get the armor Thing, since i play this game, (im level 65) if a gun has medium armor pen, and devastators main Armor is medium, it should take only 1-3 shots to kill it. With almost every weapon that has Medium pen. Autocannon does it with 1-3 shots. Jar-5 dominator doesnt. Heavy machine gun doesnt.
Major orders really do need to be tuned. First there was the bug about kills not being counted properly, up to four times too high if I understand correctly. Then we lost between 50% and 75% of the players due to the PSN login fiasco combined with ~170 countries basically banned from playing the game, followed by weapons nerfing and some people just giving up because of it.
I do hope HD2 can stay strong and even increase the number of players again, but all the problems and meddling has to stop.
edit: changed 200 countries to ~170.
Brother helldivers is still not free, and now has been infiltrated by more team killing losers
We lost so many helldivers cause of all this controversy
Divers who quit because of weapon nerfs have no right to wear the cape anymore. Quitting because of the psn mandate is one thing, but to quit because their precious eruptor is slightly less awesome than it was is another. Besides, Arrowhead have shown intentions to change the balance philosophy and plan to buff weapons, so the balance babies did nothing but show that they are cowards.
@@KrodaStaggyeah true people crying about things being nerfed is silly, unless they make the weapons completely unusable it’s not a big deal.
I think this last MO was a very accurate reading of what is or is not possible for the current player base. We failed the previous 2 billion kills MO because we had to focus on a single enemy with a lot less players, but this one, had no restrictions. By killing any enemy on any planet at any time we contributed to the MO, and we still failed. We just can't pull it off, there are not enough of us for those numbers. Hopefully, this was a "survey" MO.
I feel theres another big issue that isn't being mentioned: no one wants to be a loser. Making the gameplay stupidly hard is ok, if our struggle yields visible results. But making us struggle with a difficult game balance and not win any major orders, lose a planet defense for every win, not get any of the teased weapons and stall out progress...whats the reward for playing? IMO: they should have faked a win with the 3.14Billion major order, we needed that.
Exactly my thought, they should have just faked it, multiply kills by 2 or something. Nobody would know (plus it's lore accurate to fabricate certain facts) and it would boost morale. As somebody in the comment section said, nobody likes to be the loser
Gotta be new age . I don’t want it if I didn’t win.
Ah, when Steam players don't understand how the game was designed, and bitch incessantly about not getting their way to utter perfection.
HD2 was designed, by its very nature, to not let you win. It's called chaos. You win - it gets harder, you lose - it gets easier. Welcome to the suck.
@@StylesEste exactly this! Victory doesn’t happen in a straight line. 3 steps forward and sometimes 4 steps back.
@@StylesEste this is not warfare, we are not battling for our lives. I come home from work and play for fun because i enjoy games. If the game became easier when we lost as a community, then i would chalk it up to in progress balancing. However three major orders lost in a row, shortly after all of our galactic progress being more or less 'reset', is not fun it's disheartening. I complain because i really enjoyed the game and the community but i feel like both are being lost.
BTW I'm not on steam, I am a filthy PS5 casual.
Killing 31,431 per player would have taken each player on average like 75 hrs. With a maximum of 120 hrs available somebody’s math wasn’t mathing. It’s pretty amazing we made it within 400 million
I mean, it’s not like they make them completely possible each time. That’s on purpose, wouldn’t be interesting if we were guaranteed to win each time. Not an issue of math not mathing lol, though they prob need to tweak it down a bit thanks to the recent player loss
@Xl_Fenrir_lX Wasn't the previous one of fail as well. To me, it just seems like the balancing is getting more egregious. They wanted every single person to spend seventy-five hours. Clearly tuned to the previous player count. A lot of us are waiting on an update to make this game fun again. Making impossible goals aren't fun.They should at least be an attainable, hard almost impossible, but attainable. How is working for a goal you cannot complete fun, i'm curious?
yea you arent factoring in the total amount of people participating as well as how much time each of those people get to participate
@@josephbons1 not sure why you think they are giving impossible goals or why you think anyone would want that, strange comment. Nobody wants challenges handed to them my dude, there would be no point in the major order then, just go ahead and deposit the rewards into my account at that point. Believe it or not, people enjoy a challenge. Just because you failed a few times doesn’t mean impossible, you seem to have a mentality of giving up easily. Again, like I already said, it needs to be tweaked a bit on account of the real world issues surrounding the game. Man, even the devs have already said they will not be micromanaging the major orders, they set a goal and the players try to reach it. Sucks, move on to the next challenge. Or is this one also impossible for you, hmm?
@@Xl_Fenrir_lX So you had seventy five hours to spent on HD2, I know I didn't. How many people had seventy five hours to spend on this game for one major order? I said make it a nearly impossible goal.But one that is actually obtainable.Nobody has that kind of time. I have over two hundred hours on hell divers 2 . I don't have seventy five hours a singular major order. That makes it impossible.
The game used to be hard but also had weapons that made it fun. Now it’s just hard. We also lost 180+ countries of players, so the player-base is nowhere near as big as it was when we were breezing through major orders.
To be clear on that tho, the people who already bought it can still play. I have some friends in those countries and they can still play, it's just that new people cannot buy it
I quit playing when they screwed up spawns for smaller parties. Frankly it stopped being fun, I'm sure a lot of folks walked away in frustration.
@@DarkDay2012there were many refunds, specifically in non English speaking countries who knew little about the controversy but enough to make the decision to get their money back. However after you refund it, you cannot get it back from those banned countries
and lets be a little realistic about where the sales are at, 12 million total im willing to guess those other countries are either mostly on ps5 like japan, or at most a couple million of the install base. the millions of players on pc are gonna be europe, north america, and australia
so we're still working with numbers around late march in amount of people who have the game
@@hellerhsLmfao, I hate Sony, but numbers were never that big mate. How many pc's in those 180+ countries you think were good enough to even consider playing HD2 on? 😂😂😂
The boycott was by and large, all just western pc players, because we didn't want to make psn accounts
It was never about the 180+ developing countries. Use your head
Failing the major order is the least of the helldivers' problems right now. No one wants to get home from a 8-10hr work day and struggle harder than in the past to complete the same mission, the same way, for the 1000th time
My feelings exactly, they keep making the enemies stronger, the weapons weaker, and the game loop has gotten stale very quickly. They keep teasing us with better weapons and vehicles, and they don't deliver. Ghosts of Tsushima just came out, and I'm playing that now.
This. I fire up the game and I just get frustrated. My weapons feel like they’re made by Nerf.
@@thegamersconclave8709wait what do you mean Ghosts just came out?
@@justicejuiced262 on pc
And in recycled barren landscapes. No towns to fight in, no remanants of infrastructure besides colony and hostile outposts. Shouldn't a populated galaxy atleast feel like there were major settlements on a planet?
Did some additional math... So I feel I'm a pretty average Helldiver with a kill count of about 100 per mission and an average mission time of 25 minutes. That 31.4k kills would send me on 314 missions. For me, that's nearly 129 hours of fighting, when the major order its self only lasted 120 hours.
his math is flawed. you wouldnt need to kill 31000 enemys
No the math is correct he divided the amount of kills needed (3,140,000,000) by the estimated average players (100,000) and you get 31,400 kills per player so no his math is not wrong.
EDIT:
Lol my math an lightbeer’s math is wrong assuming each player is unique the kill count per player would be closer to 6-7k
How are you only getting 100 kills in a 25 min mission? That’s way low
@@miamistormz becouse jumping on all patrols is not the goal of the game
@@oliverheflin7803 oh my and over what timespan ? do you think that those 100000 players are always the same ??? its not like its 100k total cause there are way more individual players
With the TTK discussion, I'd like to add that I often use the Blitzer. The blitzer does a fair amount of damage against bugs, but it hits random points on the bugs body. I have noticed when using this weapon that Stalkers get killed in 1 shot to the head (where the shots hit is basically random), and 10-20 shots to the body. This is a huge discrepancy for hitting weak spots vs hitting the rest of the body and makes no goddamn sense
Nerf Blitzer
It hits the closest part of the enemy that's closest to center mass. It's stagger is half of what makes it so good. The other half is that electricity bypasses DMG reduction from armor that the weapon can penetrate. It doesn't do insane DMG. It ignores medium armor on targets to quickly destroy weak points that have low HP as well as killing small aggressive enemies. Berserkers, most bugs up to elite, just not heavy armor or really high HP targets that won't get staggered.
I enjoy running the Blitzer occasionally since it got its fire rate buff...but I’m still waiting for them to fix it so there’s no damn ‘Press [KEY] to switch weapon!’ tooltip on screen at all times. Unlimited ammo registers as NO ammo, but only for the Blitzer.
We didn't hit Pi, but euler was pretty much covered
its not just what the reddit post goes over its also the fact that the enemy units keep getting buffs while the players keep getting nerfed.
hulk stager buff killed the arc thrower on the bot front. arc thrower should get its 50m range back with a faster charge up time.
scout strider explosion resistance buff made Arrowhead commit false advertisement with the polar patriates with the Purifier and nerfed several STRATAGEMS the things that the devs said we should be using and relying on along with several primaries and grenades.
the rate of fire buff to the standard devastators was uncalled for with how weak our weapons are.
and the movement buff the flying bots got made them even harder to hid then before.
It's almost like they're listening only to professional gamers and not the core audience of their game... NEVER listen to pros when trying to optimize, fix and improve your game.
Twice now Joel/AH has set up divers to fail getting the anti tank stratagem ans snatching it away. If they "throw a wrinkle in" to make us miss getting the new mech. I will be convinced the devs and Joel are speed running reducing the player base.
The bots will attack Ustotu to cut off our access to Varylia 5 we will need to hold them off and have control of Varylia 5 at the end of the MO (I’m assuming) so be prepared to defend Ustotu if it falls we will lose major ground on this MO
@@Vanguard_Spartan_00762 And another 10k concurrent players lol
The player base has been cut inn thirds, 500,000 peak players to average 50,000 we're screwed
@@LibertyPanacea lol ya if we don’t win this one it might be over like only 10k players at the peak times
I'm sick of having things that were available in the original game "honey dick" us into playing the same tiered loop over and over again. They need to release the rest of the vehicles and weapons or get used to having the game hemorrhage players on a regular basis.
numbers so big are so hard to pull especially when we're having so many helldivers leave because of frustrations with the game...
A lot of us older folks (millenials) will play more often on the weekends, we play well 300+ kill games, pushing 600 on crazier days, we even figured how to use a orbital strike effectively against Titans, just drop it, bait the titan to do a swipe attack, run to the right and it'll land on it.. but god these orders that go through the work day is difficult when I play maybe one day other than friday outside the weekend!
Orbital Laser went from feeling like a super death ray to a tickle beam. I don't know when it happened, but that laser can be focused on a Charger for 80% of its burn time I swear to god.
Biles will take 8 shots on the chin too, because that doesn't count as the head anymore? Busted shit
I used the OL twice and it was pretty quick at taking out a Bile titan the first time then a few weeks later when I decided to give it a try it felt weaker. I usually just run railcannon over it anyways but damn hidden nerfs if that is indeed what happened to the laser is just sad.
Yeah Orbital Laser probably suffered a silent nerf.
You are better off bringing an Orbital Railcanon. Even with the long cooldown it is still consistent on its job.
That reddit breakdown is the EXACT reason why I use the Dominator... that and the stagger.
Where’s my Jeep Arrowhead? Where is it?
Where are my wrestickles
Stuck in devhell untill 2025.
Seriously though, we had twice the amount of equipment and vehicles in the first game. Running around and trying to fight a group of Bile Titans with a single shot rocket launcher. This game got stale super quick.
yeah all I want is a warthog to wip around in, why is that so hard?
@@thegamersconclave8709 each map is only like 600 digital yards you can run across it in only 3 minutes why would you want a vehicle maybe a small 150cc dirtbike but vehicles are kinda dumb, the maps would feel way too small
@@user-gc2qe1yg3m dont care want vehicles. If it has a gun great, if it can shoot out of it great. I just wanna ride with the boys
They keep nerfing the best stuff in the game and nobody wants to keep playing when you shoot soft spots and can’t kill shit. I want to get back in but everything I liked to use doesn’t hit like it did a few months ago
Kinda stupid that obvious weakpoints arent weakpoints....
Weak spots need to actually be weak spots and not function in the backwards way they currently do where they don’t take bonus damage…..it’s honestly quite stupid
@@leonc9760 Honestly, hearing how this game doesnt weakpoints makes my head hurt, they arent even weakpoints if they dont take extra damage......
The "weakspots" are 90% armored... "weakspots" don't actually exist in this game. Smh
Yup I remember playing the day of the railgun nerf and shooting a charger 3-5 times in the leg to no avail, super depressing and just about sums up this game for me right now. I’m hoping they have a huge resurgence like d4 after peeling back the issues within the game and fixing them correctly
I can't wait to never equip this suit.
If they actually even give it to us. "Well, you didn't kill 2 billion bugs in 72 hours. Looks like you won't get the new suit after all". Yeah, I'm moving on to something else. Besides you can't reload the suits, that's just stupid.
@@thegamersconclave8709Not every game is for every gamer.
Best of luck finding your next game. 👍
Hopefully they buffed it a little bit because the released clips of it taking a small eternity to kill bugs was not encouraging at all...
Somehow the only AP Autocanon is still the turret. I can understand the hand-held version using smaller, HE projectiles but the 4 mounted ones on a fucking mecha should definitely not be that weak.
@@maxvitor7023 AC isn't great against bugs to begin with. And the problem with the suit is you have to Kentucky-windage the point of aim, since you're basically hipfiring each arm. With the Patriot, it was more or less spray and pray with the gatling arm, and hope the explosion radius of the rockets made up for missed non-ideal shots. But the Autocannon version is going to be really problematic.
I just realized that the kill goal was PI.
Obviously their mistake was not letting us know what flavor of pie we were fighting for.
LOL i just noticed that now you mentioned it HAHA
@@Solkard Freedom Apple Pie. Obviously.
Telling players to "get good" was a funny response when the first Nerfs came around. Now that the player base is well aware of this "balance team" that's not really gonna fly anymore. Are they making a game for fun or are they making a game to fill a stat sheet?
They want you to have to spend money on Super Credits so you can have the best weapons and gear. They keep nerfing all of the good stuff and pay walling the new weapons, something they said they would never do. Now you can barely fine SC in the missions. They sold out, and this game will be dead in a year or two.
@@thegamersconclave8709 At this rate this game will be dead after the summer.
@@thegamersconclave8709Nothing was pay walled.
@@thegamersconclave8709The liberator is still the best assault rifle in the game, you’re smoking crack
@@thegamersconclave8709 this dude is crazy or smoking something out of this world
One of the issues is with stagger/ragdoll. Against bots you essentially are constantly suppressed and staggered from hits consistently then the bots who don’t seem to suffer much of an accuracy loss from return fire and heavy devastors literally ignoring hits having perfect accuracy and killing you in less than 3 seconds all while being able to tank a direct rocket hit on their shield something that would kill the diver outright. Make the shield arm break from heavy impacts I would love it
Can't be mad about failing the major order since i didnt contribute awhole lot too.. hopefully we get a second wind with some new updates, BTW im wondering why not start the galactic war when we were 200k+ on a warbond week.. instead .. the war started between nothing with suuper low player numbers.
Should of given us the free 500 bomb for the entire order, it was worth some laughs
They probably did that hoping it would pull players back
Optimal TTK issue is hitboxes and the fact certain weak points aren't actual weak points. Bile Titan sacks and charger sack is an example.
That and a lot of guns don't have zeroed scopes so the shots land anywhere but in the center of the cross hair even for dedicated sniper rifles.
Charger sacs are hitboxes
@@franciscomap75 Yes but it only takes 90% damage and the leg if cracked is more a weak point then the Charger Sacs... Also the best way to take them down now is with Eat17, Recoilless, or Quasar to the head, Again not the obvious weak point... If you shoot the Sacs you waste a ton of ammo and the charger has to bleed out...and can still stomp you... so you are not incentivized to shoot the "weak spot"
So....I believe everyone is forgetting something here. These guys served in their country's armed forces and based a lot of the game's weapons and damage on their experiences with that service. Armor protects and deflects...period. Defeating armor takes more than small arms can deliver in most cases. So, in order to defeat an baddy you need a weak spot. But to wenge about a normal rifle not taking out what are basically walking metal robots that have put on armor plates several inches thick is just silly.
What we need.....is more armor penetrator options. That is to say, an ammo system. The autocannon just fires HE rounds, imagine if it had a shaped charge warhead that would punch right into heavy armor. The Jar could use shaped charge munitions as well as the antimaterial rifle. Personally I think the laser beam weapons should hit a LOT harder and FASTER in general but especially vs armor....they just feel weak overall to me.
So let's quit with this balance talk. Give the game some options for AP rounds, maybe give us more options for medium armor pen. And would it hurt to have one or two more heavy armor pen options?
Oooorrrrr.....rethink the ship based stratagems. No reason why an orbital destroyer should have to wait that long to deploy bombardments, hell, they should be faster than the packages. Just swivel a turret and fire. Then it's ready again right away. Seriously how combat effective would any ship be if she had to wait minutes between volleys of any weapon?
I digress
But let's get away from the whole balance issue.....remember when we yelled at the devs for balancing things in our PvE game? Yet here we are talking about how to balance things? EFFING PICK ONE, all balance or balance goes out the window. Most of the critters in this game can put us down in one or two hits anyway.
i agree to most of the things the reddit post says except for one, that every gun is capable of dropping enemies very quickly...the eruptor, the purifier and the crossbow for example are simply not able to drop enemies especially medium armored ones in a quick pace
Imo if your primary cant one tap and your literally not using a secondary to finish of the target or planning to do a stun lock chain, and this becomes an actual issue you're running into.
Your difficulty probably needs to be reduced by minimum of one, because this game is about taking smart fights and every primary has a configuration, combo or supplementing build to allow you to do so. If you somehow walked into a mission without the tools to take down targets effectively that a you issue not the game. especially on bots, you can have any primary and do well .
@@0Vageta0 fuck right off, all 3 weapons he mentioned are just flat out worse than everything else in the game, there is no "skill issue" and get this, on the lower difficulties those weapons are still gona suck compaired to everything else! your not helping anyone by mindlessly saying "git gud should have used your secondary or stun locked" when other weapons dont need you to do that to be effective
@@0Vageta0 You're the one who needs to learn to play over difficulty 4 😂
@@0Vageta0 enemy health doesn't change with difficulty...also a giant explosive bolt action sniper should one tap a medium bug if you get a headshot especially when factoring the horrible handling, fire rate and almost none aoe...same with the other two... shooting an enemy 2 times which can take multiple seconds and ending up switching to a pistol to kill is not a good thing, it means the primary doesn't do what it's supposed to do...a secondary is a backup in case of emergency not your primary killing tool that it is in multiple cases... that's my opinion I'm not saying it's the right one everyone has his own
@@loganberkheimer1857 I literally only run 7,8 and 9 unless I'm running around to help out newbies
When I got on last night (3AM EST), there wasn't even 20,000 players TOTAL in missions according to the map. I realize that's not anywhere near peak hours, but I never saw the counts so low since the game came out, and I play around those hours 90% of the time.
@ 5 am player count was 15,000.
Aarowhead are a bunch of tools who burned their own work down
@@MrSolidsnake293 Not quite. The Sony account linking fiasco (which still isn't over) played a major part. Lots of 'Divers lost access to the game and even stopped playing for the simple fact Sony will not allow you to play the game if you live in a country/territory that does not allow PSN to operate within the recognized borders, i.e. boycott. Arrowhead going overboard trying to balance everything is not helping matters so they are to blame with that, but it's minor when compared to the situation Sony started.
I feel like the devs thought such a large kill amount needed would rally divers who left to get back on and assist. Unfortunately, I believe the Sony situation killed too many people’s desire to Dive on. I know I have been getting on less and less since.
It's a hard toss for me too, playing a bit less. Still have some urge to help the majors ( and play a fun game ) when I can but feel bad for the near 200 countries no longer able to fight by our sides, It's bittersweet playing it.
I simply gave up on this game. I watch the updates, hoping to see something that pulls me back in, but the truth is, this game feels stale and broken to me. They nerfed all of the cool weapons, the enemies are nearly unkillable on higher difficulties, and I'm tired of getting "honey dicked" over new vehicles and weapons. This whole "Take the planet to get new thing" is just pissing me off at this point. Give us the vehicles and super weapons, or expect to see this game die in a year or two.
you dont need 31000 kills
@@quasar9572 for me, It doesn’t hurt me since I live in US. It does suck for the other countries but wouldn’t stop me from playing. What I’m more annoyed about is the corporate greed of someone like Sony. You pull the login crap and then “stop” it to seem like the hero, then have the nerve to post the sales numbers after you sent people packing. It made ‘y friend group stop playing cause they didn’t have a PSN account so the two of them uninstalled and didn’t reinstall after. You can only solo so much imo. We ended up going back to CS2 and Fortnite since they keep those installed.
@@quasar9572 No one from those 200 countries were ever playing the game anyways. It is an imaginary problem.
God, that's true. Autocanon can take sometimes whopping 4 body shots for a single heavy devastator (and sometimes even for a rocket one). I can't see how a f-in ship's engine can take 2 shots and the dude with a shield takes 4
The fact we can’t 1 shot a Bile Titan with a shouldered weapon, even though they show exactly that in the intro cinematic, really grinds my gears!!!
Non optimal TTK is no TTK at all. You can shoot a bile titan’s side, leg or back with upwards of six rockets and it will do nothing. The only place you’ll damage it is the head. Same with chargers or factory striders. Their sides can tank so much fire that it’s not worth shooting them there. If you can’t line up a perfect shot on a titan’s head, you simply won’t kill it. Even heavy pen weapons have no effect. I do agree that this is the game’s main issue, though it does not resolve the problem of some weapons being completely useless on 4+
the enemies do not respond to damage logically or consistently and it makes the game less fun
@@GlitzPixie Yup. This is the only game where the enemy will continue to joyfully chase you, even though it has guts dripping from its chest, holes in its legs, half of its organs damaged in an explosion and no armor plates due to an airstrike. Realism.
The crossbow is rather underrated because it is perfect for stealth rather than direct engagements. Because the firing is silent but the hit is loud you can use it to lure enemies. You could even use a scout to divert bot drops & bug breaches away from your team have them chasing a phantom while the objectives get completed.
@@KsnypsAdventures even more, some bugs continue to chase you even without a head, and they see you somehow.
@@GlitzPixie When I was new, I really enjoyed the experience of having a lot of random chaos, unreadability, and a wide TTK spread. It made the game really exciting, it felt like a learning experience, and was a nice departure from games that have damage numbers flying into the air.
As I've gone on though, it's turned towards frustration. There's a big difference in killing something in 2 vs 4 rockets, as opposed to 2 rockets vs no damage at all.
I'll add to the context of the reddit post. It's not JUST that it's impossible to have optimal TTK on lots of guns. That's part of the problem, but it's made 100x worse by other design decisions. Some guns in Helldivers have the worst handling out of any gun I've ever used in a video game, and I played Hawken, a game designed to be a chunky slow mech shooter. When the largest most awkward chaingun I've ever used is easier to handle than a small SMG in helldivers, you know something is wrong. Tap firing helps, but have you seen the recoil on some guns?
The sniper rifles never had bad damage. They just had horrendous handling, which meant their slow fire rates and high damage were useless, since the gun actively fought you when you tried to hit the incredibly small headshot on a devastator. The biggest buff the Diligence counter sniper had was improving the handling, which brought the gun from unusable to average.
If the handling on every single gun was massively improved, suddenly the problem of non-optimal TTK would be a lot less serious, and players would have more fun. It's fun to shoot things. It's fun to be rewarded for landing a good shot. It's not fun to sit there carefully tugging your gun around to try and land a precise shot, only to miss because the game is fighting you every step of the way. I've used the Diligence against bots enough to say that even when you're carefully lining up your shots, sometimes the game just says "lol nope" and what would have been a perfect headshot in any other game is suddenly doing less damage than a back handed slap. That's not fun.
Hitstun and stagger are so incredibly important. Half the reason I used the Eruptor was because it was the only primary that felt like it had a real payoff for the horrible handling all the guns have. Putting a shot on target meant things usually died. If they didn't die, they got staggered just enough to give me time to line up my second shot. That meant that the horrible handling didn't instantly doom the gun to be unusable like the other snipers. The only other guns with those qualities have been nerfed into the dirt, like the Slugger. Need I say more about the importance of hitstun? The Autocannon has some of the worst recoil in the game, but it's still good because each shot staggers an enemy, which gives you time to line up your next shot more accurately. I think it's a legitimate requirement for the autocannon to stay usable. Take away the stun when you hit enemies, and suddenly the autocannon is almost trash tier because devastators will murder you and stagger you between those slow shots. The only reason people thought the Polar warbond SMG was good is because it has one of the most over-tuned hitstun staggers in the game. It doesn't even do good damage. It just doesn't punish you for shooting at the enemy without carefully lining up your shot.
Low enemy stagger when we get ragdolled for minutes. Slow fire rates or uncontrollably high fire rates. Limited ammo reserves which severely punish missed shots. Constant nerfs to most weapon's ammo capacities. Massive decreased accuracy when moving, which is the only real defense against most enemies. Impossible to control guns. All of these problems stack on top of the high non-optimal TTK to make the game feel punishing rather than fun. It's fun to carefully place your shots and down big targets. You feel like a hero. But it's no longer fun when every other design decision in the game is actively telling you that it's wrong to sit still and line up your shots.
Reducing non-optimal TTK by ~80% would fix so many of those problems, but a lot of the patches over the last month have made the other contributing factors worse. I think they need to increase hitstun on most guns, reduce recoil, and improve general gun handling. Ammo is fine, because reducing TTK means you have more ammo to work with. But the guns still need a lot of work in the non-damage aspects.
I only play AMR , kill about 3 hulls every mission…
Yeah. At least heavy armor should reduce ragdoll and flinching. That's why most people hate playing against the bots. They require precision and careful aiming. But every other aspect of the game makes it harder. heads shots, flinching, rag doll, constant running, dropships that get you surrounded by all sides. How are you supposed to even aim to the weakspots?.
Maybe y'all should play on lvl 6 until you get better at bots like I do when I haven't played vs bots in 3 weeks. If you're in a situation where you can't shoot because of enemy fire, you need to 1) break LOS, 2) change direction after bots lose sight OR kill any pursuers and then change direction, 3) attack from another angle than your closest team mate. Literally the MOST basic small unit tactics make bots' strengths not matter while exposing their weaknesses to a minimum of one helldiver.
Most small arms SHOULD NOT have hit stun against anything bigger or more durable than a human. This game was unexpectedly popular, but so many complaints are about things that make the game different and good and if Arrowhead listens to all of it, they'll ruin what makes it a good game.
@@Brokentwobutton Its no use they don't want to get better they want the game to get easier.
It's only my opinion, but having failed at three of the last four major orders it feels like playing a D&D game where the DM is competing with the players. Joel is setting up Major Orders specifically for the community to fail, and, again for me personally, I stopped caring what the major orders are. If we're just being set up for failure after failure, why bother?
Not to mention the new Vehicles and Equipment being tied to the ridiculous MO's. "If you don't win this M O you won't get the new thing", has just started to piss me off, honestly. I'm tired of the nerfs and the uneven play scale. Most of my friends have already quit, and I'm done until they release something really cool. I don't have high hopes for this game anymore, it just feels pointless.
@@thegamersconclave8709same here, I’ve had to beg people to play with me, but no one will anymore. Used to have 15 people online everyday. Sometimes more. Now I’m lucky if a single friend even wants to play this game. Really sad because I totally thought this was the best game of the year.
Now idk if it’ll even be around in 3 months. Really sad.
I've lost so much interest in this game because of these incompetent devs
I think another big issue with TTK is the fact that different parts of the body have distinct health pools. I think the best example is the Bile Titan vs RecRif/Quasar. 1 headshot + 4 body shots does not kill, it is ONLY 8 bod shots OR 2 headshots
Don't make me remember it. In a game we hit a Titan with like 6 or 7 rockets and a 500 but because the damage got spread along different body parts it was still walking. We ended killing it with Nades.
I hope the devs see that Reddit post
Which one?
The one on reddit, of course!
@@jeffsorrows which one?
To be fair I do understand the TTK story as its linked to the underlaying issue, but I'm unsure its the actual problem. In my opinion there is a different problem at play. The team seems to want to have specific stratagems counter specific enemies. The issue with playing with randoms is that everyone will just bring whatever. So even if you bring some anti titan weapons it may just not be enough. Perhaps you counted on encountering lots of jumping assholes but now the map is swarming with spitters and your rapid fire weapon meant to kill hunters is doing nothing.
Lacking information about whats on the ground is part of the game. But it becomes an issue when it turns into: "oops you grabbed the wrong loadout better luck next time sucker". Rewarding clever use of weapons if great. But not being able to react to what is on the ground but essentially having the guess means that players will default to optimal in all cases load-outs rather than picking weapons that are good in more specific cases. This leads to weapons being overrepresented and getting nerfed. The rail gun being the prime example. It was a solid counter to everything so it got nerfed. Rather than making other weapons more viable they force people to use other weapons by nerfing those that excel. Was it deserved, maybe, we can debate that but what is clear is that the nerf or nothing approach they have been applying does not work.
Either the game has to give more information about the on ground situation so you can pick a loadout suited for the enemies you encounter, or they should make it so that using any weapon still feels fun and impactful. TTK in that case plays an important role. And like I mentioned in a different comment. They did difficulty right on release, not stronger enemies, just more. But their patching is making weapons weaker, thats the same as making enemies stronger, so all they are doing is upping the difficulty in the wrong manner. Spawn more shit but let me have the tools to deal with that shit. I don't mind having 6 bile titans on my ass if I have the weapons to deal with them.
It’s crazy how this order was released only a couple days ago and varylia 5 is almost fully liberated already.
With the state of the current balance: if they introduced the Illuminate it would bring a breif spike of intrest followed by a quick realization that we will never win and an equally fast exidous of the veteran players... Again
Honestly if we do take Varilya, you know damn well it's going to be facing invasion after invasion, which means constant defense campaigns.... yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...... Sure do love fighting Bots with my Normal Liberator, starting pistol, and the overall sub-par stratagems I have unlocked.
This defense mission is bugged too. Depending your drop difficulty it's almost required,"Defend Valuable Assets" start around D5 or 6 , you'll get bugged Pelicans , Enemies not spawning, and just silly ways your unable to complete the mission and the entire OP , no progress to be added to the defense campaign. You can get ones that work but it feels like tossing a coin. Level 95 and almost feel like I need to avoid defense missions, or start every single OP with that mission to ensure 4 guys don't waste an hour and don't gain an inch of ground.
I pray we don't have that scenario 🫠
@@quasar9572I understand you. I'm level 92 and I always avoid playing any campaign that includes the 15-minute essential personnel mission. They haven't fixed that mission at all, and it's still too stressful to play. It's basically the perfect way to lose the campaign and therefore waste your time. Sometimes the mission coincides in all the campaigns, which makes me skip defending the planet altogether.
@@quasar9572 of course what I am about to say is no real cure for a mission hanging up
But wouldn't the best idea be to do whatever side objs there are and the purposefully fail so the mission ends and you get the rewards anyways? If there are no enemies, you always have your strats and nades
@@miemsliva4464 if a mission allows side objectives your absolutely correct perhaps for a lower level. however the defend valuable assets have no side objectives, it's like the "eradicate forces mission" if no force spawns to eradicate there's nothing more to be done than fail the mission and consequentially the operation.
Also , if a main objective is failed to be completed, you and your team may gain XP but the mission still fails and progress can't be added to our war efforts. At a certain point you max out everything, beyond adding progress for the community,
Concluding a Long story short personally there is nothing left for me to unlock or grind side objectives beyond boosting a lower level diver or adding to liberation progress ( for completed missions)
Appreciate the idea though, will definitely flush out side objectives for my team if able :)
I probably do one or two missions, every 3 or 4 days. Great game but i dont have time to play it everyday.
That is 100% true. We do not always have the angle for an optimal ttk. I often have to cover teammates being pushed, so i only have the side of the enemy. I can't afford to shoot each enemy 45 times with non-optimal weapons, so I have to use the '' meta guns '' on level 7 and up.
There is also multiple HP pools per most mobs, so if your aim is a bit off or if you get hit while firing, you are most likely attempting to burn through two separate HP pools. So balance needs to include HP pool adjustments, TTK, and patrol spawns - all three need work to return the game to the fun it was pre .100.. Regarding the MO, keep in mind the weekend is for the US, a holiday weekend, so that may come into play.
Can't wait to run both mechs back to back
I have my liberator to defend myself, a few grenades to close bug holes, and my cape to keep me warm. If democracy wants me to have more than that it has a way of letting me know.
Well, I'm glad you're happy, but those of us with jobs and lives don't have the time to keep struggling with the same nerfed weapons fighting nearly unkillable enemies, because the developers want to keep "honey dicking" us with decent gear. The fact is, this game has gotten very stale, and people are starting to move on to other games. Hell Divers needs to remember that they are a service industry with stiff competition.
@@thegamersconclave8709 I have a job and kids. I play for an hour or two at night most nights. I understand the frustration. I too liked the feel of the game more before all the nerfing, but I still have fun. I don't really give a shit about new gear or anything like that. I just play for the pure fun of it. When I want a serious challenge I play GTFO.
I feel like a big improvement for weapon feel would be changing the useless ricochet against higher armor with some mild damage and eventually breaking or weakening the armor.
I end up thinking of drg and its armor breaking system in comparison.
This post hit the nail on the head everyone was running around with eruptor because it’s optimal ttk was insane soon as they removed that we got off that gun
If we don’t complete the defend planet mission to the left there we will lose the availability to go to the Major Order planet because supply lines lol
Ustotu is our way in if it falls we will lose major ground on this MO and Choepessa IV also has supply lines to Ustotu so liberating Varylia won’t stop the attack when it inevitably comes under attack (assuming Varylia need to be under our control at the end of the MO)
I dont think the whole TTK thing is accurate. I have watched bile titans eat direct 500 kg hits, railcannon hits, numerous EAT and quasar headshots. I have seen one 500 kg do the job. Chargers are the most glitched and erratic enemies. They slide, teleport to weird places, they randomly can stop and turn on a dime. I have had a charger slide and instantly turn on me and then stomps me. No its not a skill issue as i have plenty of time in game and have stacked plenty of bodies. These are noticeable bugs or glitches with these enemies. Dont get me started on the hunters and their rapid stun lock before killing you in 3-4 hits with 100 armor lol
GUYS PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD
We shouldnt lose this Order, if everyone who plays helldivers regularly just completes at least 10 trivial missions, we will complete this order! Its super easy and it takes less than an hour to do your part!
Me personally im going to be doing at least 10 a day to try to make up for someone else who might not have the time for it
JUST 10 MISSIONS EACH GUYS
One issue I have noticed is that we simply do not have the proper equipment to fight our enemies. This is less of an issue with the bugs but when the game drops 12 bile titans on a defense mission you just loose as it is not feasible for even a coordinated team to kill them all while dealing with the endless hordes of trash. This issue is also reflected in the bots with the factory striders. They require full focus by the whole team to be dropped, requiring SEVERAL high cooldown stratagems. On the new defend missions it is impossible to kill all of them quickly enough considering how tanky they are and how we lack any anti-armor weapons that don't have a 3 minute cooldown. In my opinion we need a support weapon that is dedicated for killing these colossal units as on the higher ranks we are expected to kill dozens of them in quick succession and right now that is not possible.
You gonna ever talk about how they're trying to censor all critique in the reddit now?
When the critique is over used spam of mindless droning, i'd understand
Not really news worthy though, hasn't almost every subreddit been found hostage to 3 or 4 mods who overzealously delete ban and moderate?
I mean it's reddit so what do you expect?
@@Ravenbones it's a public space with thousands of users. It doesn't benefit anyone to try to quiet people in one of the only spaces available for venting frustrations
Deadass? What happened?
The ottk vs ttk is not the problem; its that the majority of the guns just suck. The scopes are misaligned which leads to you missing more shots, wasting ammo and needing to reload which leads to a higher ttk.
There's all sorts of things like tremors or explosions or staggers that throw off your aim. Our mag capacity was gimped across the board so we're having to spend more time reloading than actually shooting (cough cough heavy machine gun.)
All these factors just make the guns not fun to play with
They need to really consider that other studios are going to copy this model. Already Space Marines 2 has a four player PvE mode that’s being assembled and a lot of folk will move over to that. Nerfing the guns the way they have was madness. They needed to be the way it was - the railgun is a level 20 gun it should be the best strategem for example.
0:01 the breakdance bug in the background fixes all the sadness
That TTK breakdown is fascinating. The difference between non & optimal TTK across weapons becomes counter-intuitive and explains a lot about the primary meta.
For example: beginner weapons SHOULD have a much smaller window between non and optimal, while high-level rewards skilled use with a much greater difference.
However the situation we have now is that late-game and/or meta weapons just have low TTK across the board and therefore completely outclass the competition leading to unpopular nerfs.
When doing your calculations leading up to the 31,415 kill count, you made the mistake of equating the average number of players to the total number of players. In reality, players are rotating in and out of the game to maintain the average of approximated 100,000 players. You can think of it in terms of needing 100,000 player slots to be consistently filled by whoever chooses to hop on given their relative time zones. If you make a couple other assumptions like people getting on every day, and that when people get on they play two 40min + 40min + 15min (~1.5 hour) long operations, you can divide the 24 hour period of a day by 3 to give you 8 groupings of players, thereby leading to a total player count of 800,000 and a required kill count of 3927 per player over the course of the 5 or so days they gave us, which is much more reasonable.
yeah the total amount of unique players is probably more in the range of a million or two every few days
Getting close to completing but missing should happen, otherwise orders are just free medals…
I think the TTK issue was clear when people were shooting the chargers leg with the railgun instead of the head.. seems like a straight line when you think about it
Varylia should be ours in about 2 days is my guess, but I'm willing to bet we get attacked along our supply line tonight (Ustotu?) to complicate it.
I hope your wrong soldier . With any luck we can swiftly cut the lines. But my guess is more likely after liberation a good force needed for that will divert back to the Bug front.
Yes (I’m assuming) Varylia 5 will need to be under our control at the end of this MO and I can confidently tell you that the bots will most certainly attack Ustotu and I fear that people will see this as another gambit (take Varylia to stop the attack on Ustotu) but Choepessa IV has supply lines to Ustotu also and the attack won’t stop once Varylia is liberated
is not a surprise the first major order to kill 2Billiuons bugs we were 200k minimum. now we barelly surpass 100k at peak with a minimum of 30k. About the nerfs i don't really feel them, i dive level 9 like always with no problems
Not only that, there was a glitch in the kill counting method. A full party that got 1000 kills was recorded as 4000 kills.
We 30+ old farts who remember watching Starship troopers as kids have jobs from Monday to Friday and some lawn mowing and other "minor orders" from wife on a weekend. If a major order is not mostly accomplished during the weekend, there is no chance of us completing them at all.
Also when we completed major orders in like one day, we had like 80K pc players and 40K PS players. That was before PSN effectively banning half of the world from buying the game on Steam.
I've used the Anti-Material Rifle and gotta admit it also largely follows the rule of not being punished overly hard for failing to hit weakpoints as it can wreck by repeated quick shots if all else fails. Though it helps it's one of the easiest weapons to hit those weakpoints with as it has a great scope and accuracy. The OP of that reddit topic definitely has a fantastic point and I hope AH sees it
HD2 is on life support at this point. Let's be real. I haven't played but 2 matches in 1 month. . . The game needs an over haul. The weapons are too weak. The bots are immune to most of the primary weapons.
It's an unbalanced mess now. REAL TALK
Edit: Yes I play on Helldive
Fr!
What bots are Immune to 'most' primary weapons that aren't the Cannon Turret, Dropship, Hulk, And tank?
Because I can't think of any others that can't be taken down with the default liberator in some way.
Hang in thwre, changes are coming
@@miemsliva4464 Do you even helldive bro?
What you mean is your interest has died, because You're bad at the game
Can’t wait for this new mech to be fun for 2 weeks and then nerfed into irrelevancy.
Considering the last mech never got the chance to even be usable, I’m sure it’s gonna spawn in and instantly blow up the entire team
@@NthnLikeCodeine i've seen the mech being used, its pretty good rn.
Nop, not anymore
It seemed more durable. Maybe it was just the situation
@@NthnLikeCodeine lol
Breaker Incendiary is really good for bugs. You don't need a good aim as its pellet spreads burn a large quantity of bugs.
And also, most of the MO time is that we have day jobs.
I looked over the Major Orders. Including the last Order, our total number of Major Orders is 26. We have successes in completing 17 Orders and have now failed 9 of them. Giving us a 65.4% winning percentage or about a 2 to 1 win/fail ratio.
Exactly people are just fuckin crying that we're not winning every single one because they don't know how War works a 65% win rate means we're winning the war
Im just burnt out now. I dont think anything they release into the game will bring me back. I have no reason to play besides joining my friends, and they're playing other games
Then quit and go look at other youtube channels
Dude, just do other things or play something different. In the end, it’s a game, not a second job.
@@flammableelmo4966 the man has a right to express his feelings on the topic.
@@adamredbeard5232so do others
@@flammableelmo4966 Great idea! The game can die even quicker if you run off even more players that AH missed. Brasch tactics!
I mean they’ve said before there are certain orders we are meant to fail
We were never meant to win this order
Such a high number as you said we was unrealistic tbf though we got really close
They’ve also said that there are filler orders so this order could of just been a filler while they where getting this mech ready
As for this order we’re either being baited or they feel bad because we keep failing orders so they’ve gave us a easy one with a nice reward
Yeah, this order's target was literally Pi (ie: 3.14....) I'm positive it was a filler. Considering they didn't punish us for failing it, that makes it even more likely.
Your all not paying attention, the devs are getting predictable. The last major order was balanced for the original player base before the diver purge on multiple country...
We went from 500,000 peak players to 50,000 average, the devs are keeping a booklet of planned events but they are based on months old data and player numbers .
This is why aarowhead is acting like they need to go back to the "drawing board" on major events...idiots really to be this foolishly blind.
Helldivers deserves a better team...
The problem is, when you start tying the availably of weapons and vehicles to the M O's, its really pisses off people who don't have hundreds of hours to drop into this game. Everyone I know who has a job or a life outside of gaming has quit this game. They are losing thousands of players every month, and with the "Games as a Service" mentality, that means no one is buying Super Credits. At this rate, I give this game another two years at max, before Sony shuts down the studio.
@@thegamersconclave8709 the studio’s independent Sony can’t shut them down
it wasnt as hard as described since his math wasnt mathing corectly
I'll come back if they bring the primaries back up. It hasn't been fun to play for a while. Just waiting to hear some good news about functioning primaries.
TBH, I used to use the Jar5 against the bots until I got too frustrated fighting the weapons slow handling and heavy flinch every time I got shot, I switched to the liberator penetrator/Defender w/ ballistic shield because I could maneuver with both of them…
I’ve not really had the same issue with the bugs, but that’s because of my incessant use of the flame thrower
8:59 understood , increasing optimal TTK
Almost 180 nations are unable to dive, and that whole debacle cost us valuable reinforcements. The kill count major orders require numbers that echoed what we had before the delisting. Plus, I'd have to buy a particularly powerful laptop to play on the road as I travel for work. The bulk order kill quests aren't viable for the game.
I play on the go with a Minisforum V3 tablet, it's like a Surface Pro but with an AMD APU instead of an Intel chip. The game runs great after fine tuning the settings. This thing wasn't cheap at $1300 out the door, but an equivalent laptop with a Ryzen 7 8840u chip should be quite a bit cheaper and play it nicely, no dedicated graphics needed.
Gee we we failed another major order it’s almost like the devs need to reconsider what’s down for the current player count now that only those of us hard core fans of the game are playing anymore after they nerfed half the arsenal
I like the fact that we don’t compete all major orders, otherwise what’s the fun always having success. Making things a challenge is cool.
Obs: it does not mean everything should be impossible.
That's how war works they win we win it's a tug of war that's the point that's the reason why we've been on the same planets for weeks now because we've been grinding each other down with attrition there hasn't been a big offensive from either side and if we take all of the major orders we have done since the beginning of the game we have a 65.4% win rate so far which means WE ARE WINNING THE WAR! Gamers just can't understand that we're not going to win every single time and immediately push them both out of the Galaxy and it's not a situation where we're not meant to win no we just didn't win because people didn't kill enough it's that simple
I think the math at the start is a bit weird. You aren't required to kill 30k enemies per player, you'd need to kill 30k enemies per day.
The graph indicates players active at any given time. Its much easier to take the 3.14*10^9 kills and divide it by the time in terms of total sessions. Assume an average mission takes about 30 minutes. That means that for the 5 days we had for the mission you get 48*5 missions played per group. That's 240 missions over the course of the mission if you played full time. And we can use that as we assume the average amount of players.
Assume that 50k helldivers are active at any given moment. We can then calculate backwards from 3.14*10^9 / 240 / 50000. This yields us 261.6 enemies per player per half hour.
Basically, is it reasonable to assume that the average helldiver kills at least 260 enemies every half an hour? And that is assuming that every player actually plays for the whole time they are online. Not counting the countless hours lost waiting for that one guy who is messing about in their arsenal. So you can easily round this up to 300 kills per player per half hour played.
On some missions I easily hit 300+. But others I barely hit 100. It depends on the mission, the types of enemies that spawn and the difficulty. Not everyone plays on helldiver difficulty not everyone can cleanly kill everything quickly. The questions is if this is achievable assuming the average player. And that brings us back to the weapon balancing. I'm not sure its still the case but I gathered in the past that they had a vision of how much % win rate the helldive difficulty should be. I'm not sure that was just rumors or actually the case. But assuming its the case its an incredibly stupid way of balancing anything. All nerfing weapons does is mean that less people will play the higher difficulties, and those that do stick around are still good enough to win. It doesn't change the percentage of players that win at that difficulty, it just removes players from that difficulty because its no longer fun. So now the win percentage is still higher than they wanted and the cycle starts anew.
Let players have fun. Just add higher difficulties with more enemies and stronger enemies on top. People will default to the difficulties they enjoy. And big surprise, that tends to be the difficulty that they feel a challenge but still reliably win.
Thanks - thought maths in the video was extremely sketch came down here to put my own calculation and saw you did it better.
Agree with you on balancing as well - it’s hard to imagine a world in which people whine (as much as they are now) about weapons being too powerful.
VERY NICE! ANOTHER CARDBOARD MECH!!!
That post is pure ART. It describes the problem almost perfectly, and gives a great reference point for where balance should be. If every weapon felt powerful like the dominator or the incendiary the game would be amazing.
The TTK breakdown was eye opening.
Explains why ive been having a lot more fun since ive been basically using the AMR as my primary and the eruptor as a factory/bug hole destroyer. (Stun grenades of course. Makes hulks a LOT easier.)
AMR is goated, I’ve not used anything else on bots since like 5 hours in (I’m now sitting at around 80)
Ill get back into it whenever they unnerf everything 😊
I refuse to play this game until they fix everything they broke with the nerfs.
A bug wrote this 🤔
@@JustTuckedUp Are you sure it wasn't.... a bot?
The Incendiary Breaker is like a can of Raid for the common rank and file bugs. Spray it all over an enemy bug squad and watch them fall in about 2 seconds of flame. Warriors require about two or three concentrated hits to ensure death, but hunters and scavengers will almost certainly die from a grazing hit. Bile spewers and Brood Leaders will need a heavy dose of fire to kill quickly, but nothing will give you trouble it can't handle until Chargers and Bile Titans show up.
The thing to keep in mind with the TTK is most mobs don't just have a Optimal and Non-Optimal TTK; they generally have a high risk/high reward TTK, a very bad TTK and a good, moderate risk TTK.
The Lin Pen vs the Devastator. There are three ways to kill it
1: 3x Headshot: 0.3s
2: 30 torso shots: 3-6 seconds, depending on your mag capacity
3: Shoot the legs: 12 shots, or 1.2s.
The Sickle takes 1.5s, and the Dominator takes 2 shots to do the same thing.
The TTK problem with the Liberator Penetrator is not the damage, or the RoF: It's the clip size. You spend more time reloading than you do firing, and even with hitting the right spots, it usually requires at least one mag change a target, roughly doubling the TTK, even if you are hitting the right spots.
And I think that is the biggest reason the Sickle feels so much better in most circumstances: it's got 7 seconds of fire time to work with before requiring a reload.
I love this game, but I have to keep it real. The dev team is inexperienced, backwards, and even spiteful. They’ve taken what could be the next big thing and ran off majority of the player base with their poor balancing, glitches and overall attitude towards the community. With the CEO stepping down and choosing to be more hands on with development I’m hoping we can see this get turned around.
So wait... You were going to make a video on a Reddit post exclusively before you got the information on the Mechs? Gotitgotitgotitgotit
That ttk article was revelatory. It’s easy for people to feel the problem, but very hard to mentally identify the root of the problem. That article hits the nail on the head.
Less players and we still almost completed it. I see that as a big win
Until they make the game fun again, I won't be back!!!! I am level 121 and I quit playing over 3 weeks ago because they are literally DESTROYING the game from the inside out. I hope they will make it funtastic again but my hopes are thin.
New mech? They haven’t even fixed the last fucking one, turn to fast or get hit by a plant and you turn into a walking 500kg. 🤦♂️🤦♂️ genuinely out of everything they could have added they added a 2nd of the WORST stratagem type. Honestly, as someone with 250+hrs, if the game keeps going in this direction I’m hopping off
I feel ya, I didn't buy HD2 to pilot mechs. I'd rather play a mech game for that. I think now that Pilestedt is taking a more boots on the ground role the game will improve given time. All they can release now is stuff they completed already.
@@rhetro777Helldivers 1 had a mech that was awesome. You could use stratagems while in a mech. IDK why they got rid of that feature for this game.
@@rhetro777helldivers 1 had tons of mechs and tanks and shit should’ve expected for them to be added lol
@@crackededge9351 you can see something like a tube on the mech's shoulder, i assumed that we'll be able to do so soon, i hope
That reddit post perfectly expressed my thoughts and feelings on the gun mechanics of the game in words better than I ever could
I've found myself falling into always using the Dominator to try for headdhots and the Recoilless/EATs for taking down heavies because that brings me closest to that optimal-ttk for the hard enemies
Admittedly one-shotting every ad feels very satisfying too and trains your trigger discipline
As ever, awesome content and I agree about the nuance balance issues regarding TTK.
As for the major orders, it's probably quite hard to judge where to place the targets given the declining player base and that some 'divers will ignore the MOs. This last one at least looked kinda doable at first, but the one before that was never gonna come off and the current one should be a walk in the park... so no, I don't think Joel has something spicy in mind, I think they just wanna make sure we get the mech to cheer the remaining players up.
Managed Democracy, Helldivers.
Thanks DT 🙏
We effectively lost half of earth, of course we wouldn't be able to achieve these ridiculous kill missions.
Yea we don’t have enough divers for these orders. If we get some good content updates regularly they’d keep enough but until something like that happens they’re not achievable.
*sips tea* it's like we're missing 184 countries worth of player
The Optimal vs Non Optimal TTK discussion is interesting and I think it's worth bringing them closer together.
However, I would note that this difference is also one of the things that makes the game unique. Enemies having significant weakpoints and armor that can deflect attacks from weaker weapons makes the encounters more intense compared to just being a wall of hitpoints.
It gives the game a high skill ceiling, and incentivizes players to think about what they are doing. Spray and Pray will work eventually, but you need precision to be the most effective.
That, and they want to incentivize stratagem usage. I personally use my primary to deal with chaff, my support weapon (usually an AC) for heavies, and strategems for super heavies. I haven't made it to Helldive difficulty yet, but this organization works for me. Everything has a specific purpose, and is used for that.
If I could reliably take down everything with my primary in a few seconds, then I wouldn't need the AC or the Strats. Same goes for the support weapon.
Very well laid out information for me to be able to completely understand. Thank you!
Basically all the best primary weapons either have medium armor pen like the Dominator, explosive properties like the plasma punisher, scorcher, or Eruptor (still good, don't care), or does fire damage like the Breaker Incendiary. The sole exception to this is the Sickle, which combines best in class damage and handling with infinite ammo.
The AMR and especially Autocannon are so insanely good against bots because they are not support weapons. They are primary weapons that forgive non-optimal TTK.
the major order of 3,1415,so-on-and-so-forth is a joke that the galactic war will never end
just like pi
MY views on current TTK before watching the segment. The main problem with helldivers 2 balance is helldivers failing to destroying a patrol before the next one spawns, failing to do this results in your position becoming a flanked position. After this occurs multiple times your position becomes a surrounded position. Which is pretty much the worst position you can possibly be in outside of a flanked position with an annihilator tank cannon barrel in your mouth. So the root of the main balance problem in helldivers 2 is in fact low TTK. How can helldivers follow general brasch's tactics and always be taking cover if we're constantly surrounded by enemies? The answer is we cannot. Hence the balance dilemma that has the helldivers community frothing at the mouth for the incoming balance change patch.
Edit: also before watching the segment, TTK can be fixed in it's entirety by resisting, reducing, or removing aim punch and prolonged ragdoll states which causes your accuracy to evaporate while being struck by enemy attacks.
Edit 2: post TTK segment viewing. The TTK post author is absolutely right about what makes a gun good. Give the automatic grenade launcher a spin with the incendiary breaker and an ammo supply backpack. It's democratic liberation potential is nearly limitless. They both ignore weak point requirements and reward you for hitting the weak points.
You have a couple fair points.
Removing player stagger and rag doll is just babysitting people who make bad decisions. If you get hit with a hail of bullets and rockets, you should die, but, there are mechanics that let you survive. Stims and armor passives are there to make mistakes less costly, but they shouldn't just turn on god-mode and let you also mow down enemies from a stupidly exposed position with any gun you think looks cool. Its a squad strategy game. Repositioning, using multiple firing angles, and having multiples ways to deal with every kind of threat on each team are all possible. If the game is balanced to let people who ignore all of that potential still go John Rambo through high difficulty, it won't be any fun to people who actually get good.
The post also completely gets wrong that every gun should be somewhat useful against different enemy types. It isn't that there's a bunch of bad guns. Many players just pick low effort stuff, don't use comms, and then run into everything that they can fight and loot without looking at their team, radar, or pings.
Literally 3/4 of the stratagems and weapons are slept on by meta slaves in a game where there isn't a meta. You just pick one thing you like, then make sure everything else you pick supports what you like the most. If a player likes using a basic AR v light enemies, it doesn't mean the heavy enemies should still take DMG from tiny bullets. It means that player should take a Senator instead of a Redeemer and should take a support weapon that deals with heavy and massive enemies, along with stratagems that deal with a variety of enemies.
A lot of stuff that's good in this game isn't picked commonly because it takes skill to use it right or can at least punish you for using it wrong. Gas, napalm, stuns, airburst, rocket pods, precision orbital, shield gens, and smoke. Just taking a sentry that fills a gap in your kit can be a huge difference. Placing all of those things properly takes trial and error to learn. If people just want to feel like a badass, they should play on lv3-5.
The only missions I fail in this game are when people don't tell the team they're moving resulting in more spawns over a wider area, or people refuse to run away when the team can't quickly kill everything, or when 2+ players think that soloing every POI is more important than doing objectives.