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DF Retro Extra: PS3 Reveal at E3 2005: What Was Faked? What Was Real?
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- Опубликовано: 3 мар 2018
- It is one of the most infamous console reveals of all-time and the arrival of the 'target render'. But how much of PS3's initial reveal was actually faked? And what was actually running in real-time and on what hardware? John, Rich and DF's new PC expert Alex Battaglia consider the evidence.
The book referenced in the video is:
The Race For A New Game Machine: Creating The Chips Inside The Xbox 360 And The Playstation 3 by David Shippy and Mickie Phipps: geni.us/BoeOwH
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![DF Retro's Failed Consoles: Sega 32X - We Play Every Game [Part Two]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w0JnJjdiu7w/mqdefault.jpg)
I heard they threw away the ps3 prototype controller but it came back
Eastyy heard tha joke in 2005, and all these years later, it came back.
But it was great controller. Better that classic ps3 shit.
WellDoneTurner ur right it was a great controller especially for darksouls games, you can throw ur controller and it will eventually come back to you
I remember seeing the boomerang controller on a newspaper once, it looked like the most futuristic shit to me at that time. My dad never got me a ps3 after the ps2 though. 😭
DustyKat awww poor thing.. Btw what console do u have now?
I'm here 4 years later, and Jon is definetly chasing the 1080p dream
Next stop the "Ps4 Pro 4K Dream" lol
Can't even spell definitely.
@@kennymccormick8295 cut em some slack engrish is hard.
6 years later and it's hilarious to hear them talking excitedly about Stadia 🤣
"I'm sure the full story of what this demonstration was, will come to light."
Actually, No Clip had this question of Killzone 2 answered in their documentary of Horizon: Zero Dawn. Basically, Guerilla provided this Target render to Sony to show their vision,and they decided to include it in the E3 presentation. It was a PR person being interviewed who said it was real-time and everything kind of just snowballed from there.
$600
hey hey but the X is to expensive 😂
Except Sony never said that...it was the stupid media that made that interpretation.Dont be a jackass and do some research
Swifty Unknown
We got blurays because of it
I got mine for $600, however it came with 15 free blu-rays when I bought it... Blu-rays were $25+ at the time, 25 was for complete garbage. So I figured I got a good deal. 15 movies to start out with that were expensive at the time and would be for years to come, along with a PS3 that held its value well because of backwards compatibility.
Mitochondriac
Yeah, PS3 was like the cheapest Bluray player back then too.
I didnt know DigitalFoundry did roastings.
leonthesleepy a lot of the staff are British and Brits love a Sunday roast
mrcraggle LMAO
PlayStation guy spotted. It was a joke dude chill.
The roasting was almost as hot as the Playstation 3's hardware. Ohhhh! Almost as bad as the PS3's graphics. Oh, snap! Just kidding. But yeah, they really did hammer on the shortcomings of the PS3.
leonthesleepy
It's a seasonal treat..
Hilarious that we look at 2005 as being so old saying "back in the day". Doesn't seem that long ago.
I think it’s becuase back in the day is more of a relative term, that usually has to do with how much something has changed. For example I would say back in the day was back in the flip phone/Nokia brick days of cell phones. Just because so much has changed, even if it wasn’t that long ago in real time.
its so weird lol. its amazing how that was time ago
Racerprose crazy how time flys. I can remember my friend talking of getting a ps3 and looking at the magazine in his dinning room and laughing at the banana controller. Feels like yesterday sigh 😔
I purchased this E3 2005 DVD in eb games back in the day I feel old
It was a great year even if some of us were kids back then.
Omg this is making me feel old. I was only 22 during this E3. Turned 23 later that August.
Now 35 turning 36 this August :(
I’ve never felt old before till now. Jesus time flies.
LOl we are at the same ages.
I was 1
Yes you're old. I was 18!
@@mojojoji5493 haha same
I'm with you man, but hey, we're still here.
I think it's super cool to have grown up at a time when video games truly evolved. Things blew up in the 90s, early 2000s with hardware accelerated 3D and we were there to see it happen. 👍🏻
It’s baffling how Sony was able to dodge the fake presentation back in 2006, nowadays it’ll be shredded to the ground
Gamers weren't sensitive entitled babies back then.
My company at the time had a ps3 dev kit, and it couldn't even do graphics at the time this presentation took place because Nvidia hadn't even finished the GPU yet (and Sony originally planned to make developers just use the Cell for graphics!). Worse, after theses obvious fake videos, some editor at IGN gave Sony cover saying that he had seen personally these running real-time on actual hardware even though Nvidia hadn't made a single PS3 GPU yet.
Mone Sabri oh like when Mark Cerny said PS4 Pro is capable of 8tflops instead of 4? Oh thats right game industry let that slide too. Game industry always letting Sony slide because its their favorite. Human behavior nothing surprising though. If Microsoft said Xbox 1x could do 12tflops instead of 6.....................yeah you know they would of started WW3 with that bullshit lol. Sony still gets a pass mostly nothing new. I say this as an owner of all Sony and Xbox consoles.
Joe TheHitman
He didn't lie tho. the amount of Tflops is dependant of the floating point precision. FP32= 4.2 tflops, FP16= 8.4 tflops etc. . .
Mone Sabri no one lies better than Sony.
2005: Phil Harrison selling PS3 lies
2019: Phil Harrison selling Stadia lies
2013: Phil Harrison selling Xbox One lies
@@mitchz465 nice that’s a good improvement in selling lies from 8 to 6 years 🌝 we should expect the next one in 2023 so maybe selling a next switch lies by that time 🤔
True DAT!!!
Nothing better than a DF Retro in a Sunday morning.
Agreed. ^_^
On a sunday morning
Yep. No matter the game, the platform, the subject, it's always fun to watch.
And a whole hour twenty of it
serious, I'm enjoying them
I think /noclip has a video with people from Guerilla where they talk about this and what happened. If I remember correctly it was an internal Guerilla video. Supposedly it was a video that showed what they "aimed" for internally. It was not supposed to leave the office - much less being featured on E3. But somehow Sony got their hands on it and played it without notifying Guerilla. So the story goes, at least.
You're right. This comment should be higher up. Shame it's hidden all the way down the RUclips comment well.
Tony McModeNut Yes, amazing documentary
Yup, I am surprised none of the guys knows about it
link?
Yep. I was gonna comment the same thing, but thankfully checked the comment field first.
It's insane to see how much CG was used here in their conference. Thanks for taking a look at this, I missed the conference back in the day (never ran across the DVD of it) so this was definitely interesting to watch.
Sony arrogantly thought every developer will be happy to spend years studying the intricasies of CELL, but the market decided differently, naturally. The market ALWAYS chooses the path of least resistance
Yep. Cell went on to become the most powerful CPU used in super computers and would certainly NOT bottleneck the PS4 or the Xbox One.
Problem was, of course, gaming is mainstream and no developer would go into all of that engineering just to write some code. Turned out a couple of developers did, but 99% didn't.
That was Sony's mistake. Unrealistic ambition.
PS3 programming is not about Cell it's about highly parallel vector processing computation, it's quite native for GPU, but not for CPU. That was era when programmers need to learn multi-threaded environment, it wasn't common back then for mainstream programmers, which caused so much noise. But Cell itself isn't something out of bounds of programming and more like modern CPU's with AVX support. Today also very few games uses AVX correctly on x86 CPUs.
Apparently the PS2 was also more difficult to program for than XBox/GameCube, but it still sold better.
@@DimitriMoreira If Valve and Id Software say your processor is an obtuse esoteric piece of crap, you done fucked up
the ps3 still sold more than xbox, but thats mostly cuz they have better first party games
Those lamenting the change from the old Kutaragi-era approach of PlayStation hardware design to the more "PC" like hardware design from Sony of today simply don't understand the fundamental balances that a proficient hardware design must achieve.
Three case studies: the Emotion Engine, Cell, and the Graphics Synthesizer. Each was essentially the result of pushing poor designs to next level with relatively huge silicon budgets. While they might've been interesting from a purely academic standpoint to see what those inefficient approaches looked like at a higher scale, that scale did nothing to correct the underlying flaws
The Graphics Synthesizer relied on multipass rendering to create effects rather than multi-texturing. Somehow, Sony didn't figure out what the graphics engineers of all of the other companies in the industry understood post-Voodoo1 that multi-texturing was a more efficient approach to applying effects, and that any loss in flexibility as compared to multi-pass was more than made up for in the extra performance and efficiency that was achieved. GS's approach was EOLed with its demise, and the industry has marched on down its path of smarter design successfully.
The Emotion Engine and Cell both fail for the same reason as one another. Their job within a game system was to serve as a strong CPU. The job of a CPU, not just for spreadsheets but even for games, is to handle serial workloads full of dependent data, conditional operations, and branches.
In a well balanced system, cores/chips are specialized to handle a specific type of common workload, and these different specialists (CPU for serial, GPU for parallel, video cores/DSPs for certain specific algorithms, etc) should ideally master their own work independently yet be able to work in harmony with the other specialists in the system. This is the heterogeneous processing model that's finally being embraced today.
The little MIPS and PowerPC cores of the massive EE and Cell die, respectively, were nowhere near enough to serve as strong CPUs. The extra area on each die was filled with a bunch of math/vector units, which made them more suited to assisting with graphics. The problem is, giving what is essentially GPU silicon to a CPU is just imbalanced and less efficient.
Those who argue that the Emotion Engine's and Cell's ALUs were more flexible than even a DirectX 11+ GPU miss the point of why the evolution of GPUs follows ever-advancing models of restricted functionality like Direct X feature sets in the first place. From the beginning, GPU designers could've designed graphics processors that were as flexible as CPUs, but the limited die area budgets they had in the early days meant that they would've had almost no performance to power those flexible pipelines.
Instead, they realized that they could accelerate a set of fixed-functions and get a better return on investment of the silicon they were using. As new fabrication processes afforded more and more silicon, they had the choice of speeding up those fixed graphics functions even more or spending the silicon on being able to do a wider set of graphics functions. Once the visual return on investment from being able to do new effects, or at least similar effects in a more efficient way, started to outweigh just doing more of the same old graphics function, the feature set of GPUs would expand to a new level, characterized by an evolving API like DirectX and such.
So, designing CPUs like the Emotion Engine and Cell with a ton of FLOPs was missing the point, not using the silicon to boost the functions a CPU was actually supposed to be doing, and doing work a GPU would've done more efficiently and with a better return on investment of the silicon used.
The fact this only has around 60 likes is criminal, this is potential material for it's own video
Great post. I was a console dev back then and the PS2 GS is one of the few "upgrades" that impressed me (coming from a PS1). The fill rate on the GS was something else, it almost made up for needing extra geometry for multi-texturing.
LYR I started reading this in March 2018. Its been two years, and they just announced the PS5, but I just finished reading this comment. Good read!
@@SerBallister The fill-rate of the ps2 GS was obscenely high. The system was absolutely built for ALL THE SPRITES. And then everybody went and did simple
polygons instead.
@@Armataan I remember benchmarking transparent overdraw, it did around 30 full screen alpha blend rects (30x overdraw) before slowing down. I guess the vector units were the bottleneck for 3d.
Few people really understand that the Xbox 360's Xenon CPU is a direct cousin of the Cell BE, both of which are descended from IBMs work on developing a "narrow", in-order but extremely high clocked PowerPC compatible core (I forgot what it was called). Essentially Xenon uses 3x modified PPE cores from the Cell (the main command processor) with expanded vector unit functionality (VMX128, dual 128-bit registers) and dual processing threads per core. Alot of Xenon articles from over a decade ago emphasize the procedural rendering capabilities of the processo. While it's not at the Cell BE's level of theoretical GFLOPS, what MS got was a much more suitable CPU for a games console since it was functionally more akin to multicore PowerPC and x86 processors of the time. Deficiencies in issue width, the in-order architecture, and a small L2 cache did create it's share of problems, but developers had a much easier time working through them as opposed to having to vectorize so much of their code that shouldn't have to be.
So, what you're saying is ms stole Sony's CPU, just like they do with everything else they "create."
@@bghoody5665 Kinda bumping this, but PowerPC and hence a lot of the engineering that derives from cell is/was owned by a consortium of companies, each having access to a whole lot of schematics. Folowing the x86 boom they tried to open-source a lot of the stuff as well so it really wasn't some 'golden cove' super proprietary technology.
@@bghoody5665 like sony stealing the gamepass idea, online multiplayer and every other thing and has to also pay ms to use their cloud for running psn 😂😂😂
@@suryasishtalukdar210 Which Microsoft stole from Sega. GamePass is just the modern Sega Game Channel, and Dreamcast did online before Xbox.
@@SakuraAvalon Computers had online multiplayer before any console and somehow the Atari 2600 is the first gaming machine known to have had games a available for download. I wonder if there are undocumented games/services for computers that predate it.
You MUST do the 2006 Sony E3 presentation.
Legendary.
First thing I thought of as well. Was it Warhawk where dude couldn't land the thing properly with the motion controls? XD
They did it today
The good old days, when new console launches were accompanied by racing games.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer!
videogameobsession They still do that right? At least Microsoft
RIIIIIDGEE RAAACER!!!
no it was scheduled to be launched but $ony lied and it was delayed by months... get your facts right
DriveClub came out a year after the PS4.
NoxNyctores Driveclub a launch game? LMAO!!!
wow.. We made it ... Made it to were PS3/XBOX 360 is considered *"Retro"*
Axel Janes like.. what do you mean ? Lol
Axel Janes like .. what I mean is .. what is your point in telling me this lol. I don't mean to be rude. Sorry
It was more than a decade since its release so it is now retro but not very.
And just 2 years later, the ps4 reveal is now a Digital Foundry 'Retro'
...in 2 years ps4 and xbox one will be retro...
599 US DOLLARS!
RIDGE RACER!... IT'S RIDGE RACER!
GIANT ENEMY CRAB!
REAL TIME WEAPON CHANGE!
ATTACK IT'S WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!
MEME GOLD
Haha I’m so glad someone else remembered this.
Real time weapon change was my faborite
What ever the meme was ps3 was still better in its gen.
RIDGE RACER
RIIIIIIIDGE RACER
WOOOOO
RIDGE RACER
IT'S RIDGE RACER
IT'S 1995
You know what? I missed these types of press conferences at E3 that was more data driven and less gimmicky in the presentation. I just like them a lot more.
I miss the PS3/PSP days, it didn't felt that long ago but damn seeing the first games is very nostalgic
Alex Garcia
PS3 & PSP was two amazing platform
The graphics are very nostalgic for me. Makes me miss those days of the Xbox/Xbox 360/PS2/PS3 era.
Alex Garcia even discounting the performance improvements, I much prefer PS4/Vita. Just better and easier to use consoles in my opinion.
Alex Garcia Yes, and the great price!
PS3 came out in 2005. New games like The Last Of Us came out in 2013. So PS3 era wasnt long ago at all.
It took 10 years and PS4 to reach the promised PS3 graphics standard.
The fluidity, geometry, particles and lighting is still beyond anything possible even with RTX ON... LOL
@@sergeyakinin997 that is just not true...
@BalticFin I mean it's not
@@sergeyakinin997 totally disregarding the huge Resolution difference...yeah, sure.
@@s_for_short2400 nothing at all exists like the killzone render and the motor storm render.
How about looking at the sega Dreamcast presentation - probably the opposite of the ps3 event, but facing the tsunami of the ps2.
Good point, I only read recently that the Dreamcast supported DirectX. Quite forward thinking!
original ps3 design was awesome
All the ethernets!
All the Spiderman logos!
It's interesting because when the consoles get discontinued and get super cheap, those extra features would have been super useful.
Like when PS3 online is discontinued, using one console for 2 screens instead of split screen would have been awesome. As would not needing a router for LAN.
I’m a good leader, but this time Richard Leadbetter
That was terrible.
Yikes
Why
I remember being pretty surprised when I got my PS3 in 2012 because almost universally games looked better on my 360. It wasn’t until I did research on the crazy development of the console that it made sense lol
Excellent video, I really appreciate the amount of work you put into making these!
The Emotion Engine and the Cell Processor...
No wonder they went X86 for the PS4!
Rich Tea they were all great processors man.
Tuna Yücer butt hard to make stuff for them.
defo8811 for devs yeah :/
We would have got far better looking games if ps3 was more well rounded. CPU top heavy is a nightmare, not to mention it was horrible to
code for. Offloading gpu duties gtfo
not to mention idiot cooling design , overheating and hardware flaws.
3 words - Giant Enemy Crab
DED DOA It was historically accurate.
So here's this giant enemy crab 😀
Remember to hit it's weak spot to deal a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!
Also, it's historically accurate.
Wrong E3. Try harder next time.
This is also my favorite e3 moment of all time
Well they didn't tell the truth that the PS3 was originally designed as a CELL B.E. SOC but they had to quickly re-engineer it to add an Nvidia GPU because it would totally fail if it was just the CELL B.E. so the PS3's launch had to be delayed 1 whole year. And also because it was a new architecture they couldn't make it backwards compatible with the PS2 which made them take the decision of adding the PS2's hardware inside which made it really expensive $600 at the time was more money than $600 nowadays. Because of inflation the dollar nowadays is less valuable, this is something that people NEVER take in consideration.
people also do not realize that Sony basically gave people a $200-$300 discount (depending on all the models they had at launch) on all the PS3 hardware units.
Ahhhhhh, a "Cell B.E. SOC", oook then, now we know🤔😒
Tyler Durden Cell Broadband Engine System on a Chip. There did you need it spelled out?
@@zachsteiner yes, i did, that was the point of my comment. And i bet you most didn't know that.
So thanks for clarifying.
There really are mostly wise-ass idiots commenting DF-Videos, are there?!?😒
Then in 2016/2017, the xbox one x was promised as "uncompromised 4k60."
War never changes lmao
Please do the progression of MGS4 trailers. The first one was running at 60FPS looking amazing, and then the next one where Snake rolled around dodging grenades couldn’t even hold a steady 30. I’m interested to know why there was such a huge downgrade from one trailer to the next.
I'm 3 years late... But wasn't the first trailer a prototype that used the MGS3 engine? I'm guessing that's why the first one was 60fps. They just ran it on something better than a PS2, or approx specs, I guess?
@@Dark_Ronius i guess he's talking about the first one with the old man snake
i think they ran the first trailer on a PC with specs they thought were aprox. like a PS3.
John says at 11:23 that he'll post a link to the IBM guy's book on the history of the X360/PS3 processor development. Could you dig out that book please?
It's now included in the description. The book is entitled "The Race For A New Game Machine: Creating The Chips Inside The Xbox 360 And The Playstation 3" and it's a fantastic read.
DigitalFoundry oh yes very good book, i agree
DigitalFoundry How technical is that book? I'm a gamer for a long time, but have really no clue about most technical and engineering topics. Would I find it nice to read anyway?
Rui Almeida read it and you’ll see.
Are there digital copies available or only hardcover ones? I can't seem to find any
As far as the Killzone 2 trailer, the true story has come to light.
Watch the Making of Horizon video. They spend a lot of time on how Guerrilla Games got to Horizon, going over the circumstances of the major Killzone titles and such.
IIRC, NOBODY at GG intended it to be shown as gameplay. It was sent to Sony as a "target" or "design concept" video and they were all stunned when it popped up as their next game on a new system (lmao). Could be bullshit but they actually spend a good amount of time talking about this specific incident.
There’s still a point to be made that the game turned out having insane visuals, anyway, because they were suddenly giving it their all under these immense expectations (albeit not reaching the quality of the trailer)
2005 "RSX - More powerful than 2 GeForce 6800 Ultras"
2016 "GTX 1080 - Faster than 980 SLI"
Ahh, Nvidia. Some things just never change.
Being faster than something in SLI is just not that great an accomplishment. Sometimes a GPU will beat an SLI pair of itself. But push it maybe extra 20-30%, and you easily have the victory.
I'm convinced SLI and crossfire "scaling" is artificial.
Lots of games actually only scale at 50% or less improvement in SLI. So in that context they aren't actually lying. I agree it is very misleading though.
I went from 970 SLI to a 1080 and the 1080 was faster, and more important, dramatically smoother, in particular for VR where everything with the SLI setup made me want to puke. Most everything still makes me want to puke, but it's not because of frame pacing at least.
what about the price premium then?
Ni-oh announced 2005 for ps3......came out 2017/16...for ps4.....nobody said anything
Orlanzo Telfer tell me about it... Don't forget about The Last Guardian and Final Fantasy 13 versus which became FF15
Orlanzo Telfer
Nioh was actually a Ps2 Game 😂😂
Not Sonys problem...
Hyh Ddd it was actually a sony problem🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Number 49 umm no..NI OH is owned by Koei t3cmo not Sony.There for its not their problem.Its Koei tecmo problem
*599 US Dollars*
That was 2006. We were still blissfully unaware of the price at this point.
So here's this Giant Enemy Crab...
But no paid online? So you still saved money over the Xbox where exclusives are shit without the multiplayer? I didn't know people are that stupid. No wonder X360 actually managed to outsell the PS3 for a few years despite more and better exclusives lmao.
Nope. Even back then, a 60GB drive was pathetically small. And "real browser"? You mean that slow piece of shit that couldn't load any webpages? A web browser is never a selling point of a console, let alone a browser that doesn't work.
$600 was too much for a game console that had no games and wouldn't have games until a few years into its life. People clearly forget how awful the first couple of years of PS3 were.
Mosh At launch PS3 had paid online, and it was unplaylable.
These retrospectives are so much better than watching DF's stuff about current games and listening to Richard mention 4K as many times as he can in a single video.
Yeah stupid DF, holding developers to current generation standards. Living in the past is the best!
Also there is all those pathetic fanboys on the regular Df vids.
dannonyogurt98 better then pretending to live in the present with false 4k systems that can't run ps3 games at 60 fps
Old video now but it would be cool for more DF Retro Extras like this where we can hear more about Richard's experiences from this era and around the earlier 2000s
Actually the Cell DID NOT just supplement the "poor GPU". It gave developers some extra power. The RSX was comparable to the Xenos but harder to program. The split RAM was harder to use but also FASTER (Rambus was a very fast solution for that time) . The RSX and Cell have their own dedicated fast memory. That allowed developers to use Cell as a second GPU.
Moron it only happened later.
LOVE this idea. There's isn't enough looking back in the industry, at least not to the standards DF sets in their videos. Would love to see more of these!
I agree, I love it too. The industry in general only ever looks forward, but there is so much nostalgia in gaming because of how quickly things move and change, resulting in very defined eras.
It's amazing that despite the mishaps Sony ended up winning that generation based on the sheer dedication of its first-party developers. Third-party devs didn't get the hang of the console for most of its life cycle which forced Sony to commit to first-party studios and ultimately those studios showed what could be done and the PS3 ended up outselling the Xbox 360.
That's trippy, hearing Alex being heralded as a new addition to the team. Haha
One of their worst additions. Here he is actually not bad, but now he ruins everything he is in with his constant bitching and awful laugh that he obviously fakes since he use to not do it.
@@SPG8989 ????????
Digital Foundry, would you be able to post the .iso of the E3's DVD's you have of the conference somewhere?
man, I'll admit it wasn't easy being a ps3 fan back in 2006--2007. I used to be so excited for tuesdays cause that was when the psn store got updated with like a new demo or a new game trailer, haha, oh man takes me back.
SuperJumpReviews good thing they were hitting it out of the park with the psp so I could say they weren't being complete idiots
Funny how you mentioned the psp. I was just playing that last night! gow chains of olympus :)
I still miss the old PSN layout. I miss the sounds colour, and how much quicker it ran. sigh...good times
It was Thursdays actually. It sucked having to wait an extra 2 days to get the newest Rock Band DLC since 360 owners got it on Tuesdays.
I remember being so annoyed at the gaming press during this time, they ran with how much better the PS3 games looked compared to 360, how much more powerful the Cell chip was & totally ignoring obvious pre-rendered bullshots and video but as it turned out game developers were able to get games looking and running much better on 360, mutli-platform releases anyway.
Some press members always fall for corporate bullsht, don't they.
Sadly the gaming press haven't changed and are still just a pack of shills acting as another arm for the marketing departments for publishers.
I remember the infamous "PS3 is on par with super computers!" bullshit lol
+4468
One of the things that really held the PS3 back, was that it had only 256MB of RAM where as the Xbox 360 had 512MB. It's still pretty impressive how both systems were able to run what they were able to with that little of RAM.
Axel Janes why for me you sounds like Xbox fan boy?
The PS3 reveal and launch was historically goofy. To be fair though, the amount of shit they got for their PS3 launch blunders had made their E3 conferences become more refined and natural. Now, their E3 conference and other similar Playstation events are annual highlights of the gaming industry.
As a Yakama Native American I can understand where those people are getting upset , especially with our languages getting lost due to boarding schools in early 1900’s. (My grandma was in one and she was born in 37.). Am glad you kept pushing through and went to learn why people were unhappy. It’s not that common and I feel even when people do recognize something they don’t realize the importance of losing a part of their culture for the masses and financial gain.
I'm still waiting for 8 days to come out.
And 2 Days to Vegas
I can't believe the PS3 can be called retro now. I still have an original fat one and I'm still getting new games to play for it.
I use the 3 generations and beyond = retro method. I can't which developer said it though :/
ps4 current
ps3 dated ( some games are still made for it)
ps2 old
ps1 retro
I have the last model PS3 and I still use it at least once a week and I probably use the PS3 more than my PS4 or PC for playing games.
This is so damn entertaining. I could listen to John and Rich talk about this stuff forever. Long live DF Retro.
I wish they released the boomerang controller, even if limited edition. When you actually saw it in people's hands, it looked comfortable.
The PS3 is now considered retro?
Noah P Yup time flies fast...
Noah P yes
It will be 12 years old this November. So yes, definitely retro.
It came out 12 years ago.
Uh no
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO NEW DF MEMBER
cool that he's PC focused too
Hahaha
I thought he was just a guest?
Tom, is that you?
"How many games are 1080p on PS3 John?" - An impossible question in 2018, but in 2022 John can finally answerr this question.
Great video guys! I personally would like to see you revisit the conference where the Sega Saturn was revealed as this was really where the whole idea of showing videos not actually running on retail hardware began. And maybe a comparison of some arcade games from the mid to late 90s vs their console version too at some point.
I love this series guys, been a gamer since i was old enough to hold a controller (early 90's) and getting these deep dives in to the stories of gaming's past is always fascinating.
Didn't know Toshiba was supposed to provide a GPU different to the one we got for PS3. What was the theoratical specs for that component?
Eraezr
Toshiba and Sony helped IBM make the Cell Broadband Engine. Perhaps Toshiba's work is why the Cell was able to render 3D graphics and ray-tracing?
They weren't, the CELL was meant to be powerful enough to perform both CPU tasks and graphics rendering. Sony quickly threw in an off the shelf Nivida GPU into the PS3 when they realised how powerful the 360 was by comparison to try and bridge the performance gap.
Please do more of these. This was a lot of fun.
DF Retro made my sunday, loved this episode.
That motor storm trailer. Even today if somebody says ps5 will achieve that level of everything that was shown. I will not believe him.
Not even RTX 2080ti level performance
yeah it's hilarious how high the level of bullshit is, unmatched for well over a decade.
I made it to the end of the video! please do an Xbox 360 console retro video!
They should do one for the Kinect. Lots of hilarity to be had there
miguel roman Xbox trash scrub
PlayStation guy spotted. Chill lmao.
Super Console Gamer beat it with that stupid console war crap! I liked both systems.
miguel roman Playstation Move after.
GIANT ENEMY CRAB
Good luck to the new Digital Foundry Team Member!!!
ThatsNotThePoint - thanks a lot! :)
Wow, now do the xbox one E3 reveal next!
I'd love one for each console reveal. PS3 (Their 2006 conference was Sony's worst by far), X1 and WiiU all were failures of conferences. For different reasons of course. PS3 was just massively expensive and didn't show anything you couldn't get on the cheaper 360.
The X1 (which is a games console) focused more on multimedia, essentially repeating the same mistake of the PS3 (hurting your system with media functionality that gamers really don't care for and adding in an unnecessary component, the Blu-Ray drive in the 3's case and Kinect in X1).
WiiU...what the hell was it? We know now it was a new system but Nintendo calling it a WiiU and just showing a tablet, it really made it seem like an add on to the wii (I mean, how many wii-devices just have the wii name plus some word added onto it). When games journalists weren't sure if it was a brand new console or an add-on, you know that regular folks were going to figure it out.
Daniel Flores TV TV TV Call of Duty Dog TV - about sums it up
Daniel Flores Both shitty consoles next! We wanna see the parts where Sony and Microsoft both get caught using the superior PC platform to showcase their games!
John Linneman Basically lol
John Linneman
You forgot Sports Sports Sports
E3 2005 was by far the best E3 show of all time. I remember watching this as a kid and was blown away by all the hype and promises.
The Xbox 360 GPU, also known as Xenos, contains varying numbers of transistors depending on the revision.
The “Trinity” revision has a GPU with 332 million transistors.
The “Corona,” “Waitsburg,” and “Stingray” revisions each have a GPU with 372 million transistors.
more podcast-like video's like this please.
this was a lot of fun
Also, even tho there's a lot of faking here, last generation blow me away far more times than this current one, which more feels like a refinement than a giant leap.
Xbox 360 next pls :)
No.
great video digital foundry, one of the best you've done so far in my opinion, really enjoyed this one!
The sad thing is that before PS2 released they told fans that CGI was actually in-game graphics and that the console was true 480p, when unlike Dreamcast, GameCube and OG Xbox most games were only 480i. The PS3, before release bragged about supporting 1080p on two monitors instead of splitscreen. Sony has been such big liars, but to millions they do no wrong? I simply cannot believe what the popular kids(Sony) at school get away with the school's geek(Xbox) gets simply spat at for everything else. Their OG Xbox was simply so much more capable than PS2 and even the 360 was a programmers dream compared to using PS3 hardware...and now? I am not saying MS has not made several mistakes, but PS4 is again a PS2 and the X is simply regarded as an OG Xbox...with less exclusives this time around.
We get it: you love Xbox, hate PlayStation, and are incapable of objectively looking at either brand.
Really interesting to see this now, I remember being in middle school having beat DMC 3 with a bud from school a year or two earlier and watching this trailer and downloading the screenshots to DMC4, and my parents agreed to get me a PS3 if I did a good job babysitting my brother over the summer. DMC 4 was the first game I bought for it and I absolutely loved it. Very very different to the teaser shown, and there was a lot of backlash to nero which is funny looking back now with 5 out, but for 7th grade me it felt like a game that wasn’t possible on PS2 and really felt next gen at the time.
Where is the giant enemy crab
That was the following year.
Chemical_E that's not historically accurate
Gabriel Alluto Are you saying battles against giant crabs DIDN'T actually take place in Ancient Japan? What are you, some kind of racist!?
hit the enemy's weak spot.
Man that silver PS3 looks sooo good
While that F1 game trailer was total “bullshot", the actual game that came out (F1 Championship Edition) looked stunning, and still does. It looks better than all the other F1 games that came out later on the PS3, it also runs smoother than them. It’s a damn shame that Studio Liverpool (Psygnosis) got closed. They were the absolute masters of making F1 games. F1 05 on the PS2 was a particular stand-out, they nailed the handling, but more importantly they nailed the atmosphere, they had broadcast presentation and full commentary throughout the races. F1 Championship Edition also has really good damage modelling and physics, it wasn’t until F1 2016 that we saw something similar.
Yeah, and even 13 years after, it still manages to stand with f1 2017-2020 (games that run hdr and 4k)
Aaah yes
I remember the good old times when Sony fucked up more than Microsoft and also had terrible surprises like Ridge Racer vanilla... Oh. And had Giant enemy crab to hit with massive damage
Back when Sony was awfully cocky, with their way too expensive most powerful console with little content until the later years of its life. ahem. MS.....but seriously so glad Sony doubled down on content and first party this gen, and aren’t even cocky about their success just recently restructuring saying they are going to focus even more on the game content. They finally understand what we want: games games games.... and aren’t skimping one bit.
Ledge_pls weren't all the successful companies cocky back then? I remember those game magazines had ads roasting other companies. They didn't even try to be subtle about it.
DustyKat I remember too. It was kind of like a competition to see which was the "coolest" company. Some ads were funny tho.
Ledge_pls except Sony is getting extremely cocky again. I have a feeling they’re going to shit the bed with the PS5 again.
Sony is getting cocky again after beating Microsoft this gen. They already gave up on backwards compatibility even though Microsoft made the impossible possible. They raised the PS+ price to $60 to match Microsoft's despite claiming to be "for the gamers". They're anti-crossplay. I wouldn't be surprised if they sell the PS5 at $599 again. Sony focuses less on first party and more on third-party right now. They're aggressively buying out exclusives. Their strategy is less focused on being competent devs and more on sabotaging competition. When Sony acts this way, you can expect them to fuck up again.
Rez Jaz you can even tell some of the execs at trade shows like E3 or PSX are just laid back not giving a fuck because they feel like they completely dominated the competition and they don’t need to care anymore. Meanwhile Phil Spencer has actually been working his fucking ASS off trying to rectify Don Mattricks bullshit. The only thing Microsoft desperately needs now is great exclusives and I have no doubt they’re going to catch up to Sony by the end of the generation if Sony keeps up their cocky bullshit.
Some points:
1) Spider-Man 2 was used a lot because it's a Sony movie and also it was a big movie upon release. It was considered at the time the best superhero movie. I thought most of the CG was quite good and doesn't look any different to what you see today.
2) I remember the lack of games that came out with ScrewAttack doing a top ten joke out of it.
3) Some of that CG FF7 stuff was used in Crisis Core so it did come in useful in the end.
4) You didn't mention that one of the best decisions Sony ever made was blu-ray!
Man the MTV special I remember that as we'll, I'm old
I love the hard trance jams playing in the background. Feels like a rave.
I purchased ps3 console at launch here in Australia was $1000 + $100 for resistance fall of man + extra controller $100...$1200 in total I do not regret it I loved it.
As a PC gamer, UT and Q3 with Mods like Urban Terror, Resistance was the first time I actually liked a online MP console game...
Once I got the hang of the controller, it was an absolute blast to play.
Good times.
Good lord. Why did they charge so much for it in Australia?
cptnoremac 1US$ is 1,29AUS$
But still 599$ would be 770AUS$ and not 1000$...
rulewski33 Yeah, when it launched in Aus it was $1000. Thanks to poor currency conversion and the good old "australia tax" (give it a google).
I still got it though, and i don't regret it, I still use it frequently for playing ps2 games
Axel Janes it was not ingnorance I used that console for 7+ years for Playing PS2,PS3, and Blu-ray movies i got my money's worth.. I also bought an Xbox 360 at launch with oblivion & dead or alive 4 and loved it too. I'm not a ingnorant fanboy like you
Oh man what a great and funny look back down memory lane. This conference sparked so much conversation and debate between me and my friends.
I dunno, but F1 championship edition definitely looks better as a whole than that f1 next generation demo. The graphics of Killzone 2 and Motorstorm on the final release actually are not that far from that rendered fake demo too. The final products might not have some technical stuff you guys mentioned, but they still pretty holds up to this day.
Great video. I share the nostalgia for the days of companies creating exotic hardware to push the limits. As a kid seeing that was what inspired me to become an electrical engineer.
IDK if it’s a dumb question but could exotic CPUs and/or GPUs be used in a cost effective manner to get a more powerful console than something based on PC parts?
I think ps3 ended up in the long run being the better console experience. Also, they eventually tied and I think even slightly surpassed Xbox 360 in sales of consoles. Wasn’t a great e3 for them though.
No the ps3 was never a good experience
I have a question. What's that music mix that's playing in the background. There are some tracks from Ridge racer games etc. I'd love to have it on my phone to jam outside ;P
This is an extremely interesting kind of video. Would love to see more like this!
Prettiest last gen UE3 title? Maybe Remember Me, one of the seminal works of PBR.
Good Point, and woefully forgotten by me until you just said that!
Industry leading regarding the use of PBS at the time!
Siana Gearz
Omg i loooove this Game
I still have a brand new set of these NextGen videos DVD 3 packs.
I believe they released 3 years of them.
The Killzone trailer was a video visualizing the future of Killzone/FPS genre for internal use at Guerrilla. Some people from marketing at the States pitched that to Sony as running in real time on PS3 dev kit. Check out NoClip's documentary for Horizon: Zero Dawn. They comment on that infamous trailer.
Man, I remember being amazed looking at screenshots for Fight Night Round 3.
Ridge Racer 7, not 6. 6 was on 360.
ROBSILVERGUN
Yup 7 was much much better looking I compared them on my channel a while ago before I had legit capture equipment but the off-screen stuff still gives a good sense of the disparity between the PS3 and Xbox 360 games.
Axel Janes Just for the sake of information accuracy. I couldn't care less about it in fact. Both 7 and 6 are good games, but it's a nice fact that PS3 was pushing 1080p anyways.
Axel Janes If you remembered how Ridge Racer V looked, certainly you would not say that. But anyways, that's just ancient stuff.
ps3 and cell was way ahead of its time. other than the rally and shooting game "in engine renders" everything else seemed pretty real. a lot of games ended up looking better than their tech demos. GT6 looks way better than the demo shown.
Loving these E3 reviews. More please!!! Can you do the 90s?
Why stop there? Do 80s and 70s trade shows too (if they existed).
I would love if they commentated over old E3 Press Conferences more. This was really great!
omg I was watching this video and then my sister turns on the thundermans show on nickelodeon, then I hear the theme say "What you say is not what you get" and it made me laugh so hard
Really interesting video, I'd love to see the presentations for all the 7th Gen consoles.
I kinda wish they had stuck with that original controller. I'm just fascinated with how it would have felt to use.
Great video as always! Love the new guy ! He is very knowledgeable about the tech side of things which I love. I hope you include him more in the future! Cheers! ❤️
Thank you for the encouraging and positive comment (not always deserved or expected!). I will definitely be in a lot more content in the coming near future.
^_^
Dictator93 You are welcome my friend. You deserve it. I can see this channel growing into a world renowned group full of knowledge and passion. Leave no pixel unturned! The whole team at DF works so well together. Which is missing in today’s day and age. Keep it coming and always be upfront and honest! You have 100% if my support and I’m sure many others as well! Cheers my friends!