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Overhead Casting in the Surf: Switch Rod vs. Beach Rod by Hooked4life Fly Fishing
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- Whether you're fishing for striped bass, coho or other species off the beach, there's a trend toward using two handed rods. They're less fatiguing to cast and send the line quiet a bit farther.
If you're looking for a two hander for the surf, should you get a switch rod or a beach rod? this video will help you make that decision.
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sophisticated and educational - thanks for posting this!
Thank you for this video! Your attention to detail and simplified explanation helped me make a decision on a future gear purchase!
Fantastic video, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Nicely done! I am brand new to fly fishing and soaking up all of the info I can find. Your video answered so many questions so easily and concisely. I live in Colorado so the surf rod is a bit much but like the concept and now have a better understanding of what to look for when I buy on the used market.
Thank YOU !!!
Exelent Video Tutorial Explain,nice and Clear!
Thanks for Sharing your experience & knowledge Teacher!
Excellent Video! Thanks
Love your videos.
cool video ... FYI drill some holes in that Orvis stripping basket so you don't get swamped.
Do you prefer one of these for in the beach for only overhead casting? I have an 8wt single hand for the smaller steel heading and salmon fishing, looking for something for beach adventures and crosscurrent, pro4x, beulah 9/10 opal, and pandion tfo.
Or would you suggest forgoing a 1st TH rod and just get a 9 or 10 wt to compliment?
+Matthew Kuiper Two hand rods have one big advantage - casting on our non-dominant side. If we have to handle wind blowing the wrong way, it's good to have a two-hander in the arsenal.
If we're mostly casting overhead off the beach, then it's best to get a rod designed for that purpose as it will be better at the job. That said, any two-handed rod with a smoothly progressive action (e.g. PRO-4X) will handle overhead casting just as readily as Spey casting. A lot of the difference will be found in the handle, size of the guides, etc.
If you don't want to go the long rod route, but like the idea of two hands on the handle, then look at the PRO-4X Predator. All of the wind advantages of a two-handed long rod without the length.
What switch rod do u reccomend me purchasing around 500-700 range? I love fishing jetties and the surf here in texas wish I could get it out farther to the 2nd gut. Thanks
I'm not aware of any switch rods that can handle that range of line weight in overhead casting as that would put them in 12 weight range. Loomis does have a 12 wt. beach rod however, that will handle the 500-600 range of lines.
What fly line should I use for my 9/10 wt 14' tfo switch rod? I don't want my fly to sink all the way to the bottom just so it can get about a foot or so below the surface.
Just to be sure, a 14' rod isn't a switch rod. The TFO 14' 9/10 is a full two-hander. You would need the old Airflo Two-hand Beach Line 11/12 intermediate line to load that rod for overhead casting, but unfortunately it isn't made anymore. An intermediate will do the presentation job you're looking for, but it would take an 11/12 wt. overhead line to be heavy enough to load the rod adequately.
Great video, what line do you recommend for the loomis beach rod 10 wt., currently I through the DNAXF with an IMax line at 450, grains with a 10' tip of T8. What do line you recommend for the 10 wt. loomis beach rod?
The rod has a lot of latitude and I've used everything from 375 up to 530. My primary lines for the rod are my 35' long, Airflo 9/10 Two Hand Beach Line at 425 in an intermediate and Type 9, but unfortunately these lines are no longer available. The current Airflo models are the 28' long Sniper 40+ 10 wt. that also weighs 425, which is the suggested head weight for the 10 wt. rod. The Snipers come in floater, two intermediates and three sinkers down to Type 7. Airflo also makes a 10 wt. Striper line that is 400 grains over 40'. That lines is available in floater, intermediate and Type 7. I haven't tried this line on the rod, plan to have one on the rod for my fall trip.
Awesome thanks for your response! I cant wait to get my rod in, it shipped today!
Mr. Charles,
What is your opinion on the guide placement for the rods of this size and function? That is, if we were to builds these rods from scratch, would you place the guides on the spine side or the "belly" side of the rod?
Thank you.
What a loaded question. ;) Whatever I answer, someone will inevitable roll by and tell me I'm clueless.
We have two choices: spine matters or spine doesn't matter. The only answer I can suggest is that if we can find the spine, it matters. If we can't find the spine, it doesn't.
Graphite is much stronger in compression than in stretching. If we places the guides on the spine we expose the spine to stretching on the load and the recovery on the unload. If we place the guides opposite to the spine, we expose the spine to compression on the load and the resulting recovery on the unload. This suggests that putting the guides opposite to the spine, stiffens the rod on the load and speeds the recovery on the unload.
From there, it depends on what we want out of the rod.
@@hooked4lifeca Thank you for the answer. It makes a lot of sense. I was thinking along the similar lines. There is a lot of puzzling info out there and I am about to build a spey rod on the shorter side. (11'6" IM12)
Since stiffness on the load and speed in the recovery will contribute to the distance, I want the guides opposite to the spine. (We all want more distance out of these rods.)
On the power stroke, in order not to widen the loop, I need to be more careful about tracking a straight tip with an extra stiffer rod, but that can easily be practiced in.
Thank you
So I live on Vancouver Island and fish in the saltwater for pinks/cohos/cutthroat with my 9 foot 7 weight. If I choose to give my 13'3" 7 weight spey rod a go at this (I throw 460 scandi and 525 skagit with that rod) I should be using a 12 weight Outbound or 40+? It's an interesting concept, and particularly applicable to light salmon fishing as the slow strip and light flies are impossible to replicate with spinning gear; I'm usually casting only 70-80 feet with the single hander, realistically. So, if I can easily cast 100-110 with the spey, I'll do it.
Check that, Rio line chart says 9 weight Outbound.
Sounds like your rod takes the same weight of line as mine, so something in the 9 wt. 400 grain region should do the job nicely. You have a choice of the Rio Outbound that has a weight forward bias designed to handle very large flies, the original Airflo 40+ which has a taper similar to a Spey line and handles smaller flies, plus the Airflo 40+ Sniper line that falls between the two. The original 40+ style has the advantage of Spey and roll casting very well so we can use Spey/roll pickups and avoid lots of false casting. The Sniper line is OK for this as well, but the extreme weight forward of the Outbound can cause difficulties with this sort of pickup.
See my video on overhead casting in Cape Cod for examples of how to get a line on the way quickly.
hooked4lifeca Thanks Peter. I have an Outbound intermediate for my single-hander and am used to roll casting out of the strip in order to get it to the surface so I can pick it up. It's not the most fun line to cast as a result (and the clear head is not easily visible in low light to boot) but a great fishing tool. As we often cast very small shrimp patterns to salmon/cutthroats here I may give a floating 40+ or 40+ sniper a try. The rod is a Sage VXP which is a faster/tippier rod so should hold up to this kind of work well. Thanks again.
I have a pair of 9' Loomis rods that I fish the salt with but I recently ordered a Beulah Opal 11' in a 9/10 wt. I believe that Beulah considers the Opal to be a beach rod but it looks to me as if it could do double duty as a beach or switch rod. Have you an opinion on that? thanks.
58landman I'm not familiar with that rod model, but most rods in that class can do both jobs. The handle and guides are the clue as to which job it is optimized.
hooked4lifeca Thanks I appreciate your reply. The guide issue was paramount with me when ordering the Beulah and those rods appear to have ample guides. I'm a pretty typical fly caster and I'm looking forward to using this rod from the beaches of the Florida coasts. I always "wet" wade during the seasons except early Spring and Winter and I truly hope that this rod will preclude me from having to get much past my knees.
Here's a good read on the evolution of the AFTMA line rating system. www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/rc150.php Note that it was arbitrarily designed to work at 30'.
A typical DT-9-F line at 50' weighs 416 grains, not the 240 of the scale. A good caster can carry the full 50' of the DT-9-F in the air, which means his 9 wt. single hand rod is actually casting 416, not 240. It is important that we don't take the AFTMA scale too literally and think that a 9 wt. rod is built to handle only 240 grains. It can actually handle much, much more.
Are all switch rods generally rated for single hand lines or is that mostly a loomis thing?
Going back ten or fifteen years, switch rod ratings were all over the place. The Loomis Pro-4x rods were sort of half way between Spey and single hand ratings. They'd handle the overweight single hand lines at their rated weight without issue. These days the switch rod rating scene has settled down to using Spey ratings, making things a bit easier.
The switch rod is specified at 460 grains (for Scandi, for Skagit it is even much more). This is a DH 9 weight, and not a single hand 9 weight, even a 12 weight SH would be at 380 grains.
No, it is a single hand 9 wt. You're making the common mistake of taking the AFTMA scale too literally. First, overhead casting requires less line weight to load the rod, so the Scandi or Skagit rating can't be used to judge a rod's overhead capabilities. Coupled with that, the Scandi rating on this rod is a bit on the heavy side to make it easier for the average angler. In reality, someone with an efficient Underhand stroke can easily go as low as 400 grains.
Secondly, the AFTMA scale only applies to the first 30' of line so a single hand 9 wt. line at 30' is only 240. However 9 wt. lines are usually a lot longer than that. A typical, AFTMA accurate 9 wt. with a 45' long head weighs about 370 grains. So if the rod can Spey cast a 400-460 grain Scandi head, it will have no problem overhead casting 370.
The rod will cast 30' of 9 wt. single hand line, but it won't cast it for any great distance. That is also true of the average modern graphite 9 wt. single hand rod Never forget that the AFTMA scale was an arbitrary system designed for loading a rod with sufficient line to cast typical trout distances of 30'-40'. It is not a distance casting rating system. When we cast for distance, our 9 wt. single hand rods needs a heavier line. For that we have two choices: use a longer AFTMA line like my 45' example (usually called distance tapers) or a short, overweight line like the Airflo 40+ Sniper line I was using in the video.
The entire head of an AFTMA accurate, distance taper 9 wt. can easily weigh as much as 450 grains (sound familiar). A good caster will aerialize the entire head of a distance line when casting for distance while using either this rod or a typical 9' single hand 9 wt..
Never make the mistake of thinking that the AFTMA scale represents the upper limit for a rod because most will easily handle double that weight for distance casting. Just because a single hand 9 wt. can handle 450 doesn't make it a 13/14 wt.
Grain window is how you need to look at it not AFTMA ratings ... the AFTMA rating is tired and doesn't really apply to spey imo. My Meiser rods just have the grain window written on the blank no line designation is given in AFTMA standard because it's widely subjective. Example my 13'6 7/8/9 is rated 600-850 grains (the 7/8/9 designation in the serial number is only there to help weed out some of the confusion) but I can easily and safely cast overhead 820 grains of skagit head including the tip as part of the 820 grains. Generally I use a 650 intermediate skagit and 10feet of t-17 or a heavy iMOW Tip so my rig is consistently in the 800 grain ball park. I had several long conversations with Bob Meiser and every time he gets heated when talking about AFTMA ratings :). He also wasn't at all concerned that I was overhead casting that much weight because all of his rods are progressive flex meaning the more grains you cast the deeper into the handle it flexes unlike some of these faster Sage rods that my buddies are constantly breaking in the surf. Essentially it just softens the action a bit as you grain up. To your point I don't recall the last time myself or anyone I know used only 380 grains on a 12wt single hander ... a fast 9wt could cast 380 grains without a problem. Which is a prime example of how useless the AFTMA ratings are even in relation to modern single handers. This is evident when you look at many of the lines that are being made today ... they may say 6wt on them but the grain weight is 235 grains (using Rio outbound short as an example). AFTMA rating for a 6wt is 160 grains give or take 8 grains but a modern fast action 6wt would barely load with that line rating.
What reel are you using on your beach rod?
Both reels are Danielssons. The one on the beach rod is an HD 9thirteen.
WHERE IS THE "OVERHEAD CASTING"?
THE WHOLE VIDEO WAS YAPPING ABOUT THE RODS!