What's lacking at Liquid? / s1mple's final CS:GO Major / rise of iM - Snake & Banter 35 (ft. Moses)
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Thorin and Mauisnake are joined by Jason "moses" O'Toole to discuss the CS:GO Major format, the unfortunate end to s1mple's CS:GO Major career, the state of Team Liquid, Vitality's course to their Major victory, and more!
Snake & Banter is a CS:GO talk show, hosted by Duncan "Thorin" Shields and Alex "Mauisnake" Ellenberg, usually themed around each individual selecting a good, bad and ugly topic to discuss.
This video was recorded on May 26th, 2023.
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0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:08 - Moses's good point (Bo1s at the Major)
0:11:01 - Mauisnake's good point (Open circuit for Major qualification)
0:23:02 - Thorin's good point (Arrival of iM)
0:29:46 - Moses's bad point (RMR format)
0:37:45 - Mauisnake's bad point (How s1mple's Major career ended)
0:53:07 - Thorin's bad point (The Paris Major isn't the final chapter of CS:GO)
0:59:27 - Moses's ugly point (The state of Team Liquid)
1:12:12 - Mauisnake's ugly point (No discernable difference in results between Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams)
1:24:30 - Thorin's ugly point (Vitality's opponents at the Paris Major)
#CSGO
#Counterstrike
#esports 
Игры
purely technical critique. Thorin's mic level is wayy louder than Maui and Moses. I keep having to adjust the volume everytime Moses or Maui speak, and then reduce it when Thorin speaks. Use a compressor maybe, or just reduce the overall level.
Great content. Love the work
True, Thorin is also just louder in general tho
I think its bc thorin is recording it from his side
Audacity could fix this easy
I hate those brother, I know exactly how annoying it is.. on the LinusTechTips / WanShow podcast as well...
This time I didn't feel that much of a difference in the levels, but maybe I am lucky with my bluetooth speaker.
The mic just peaks a lot. The gain needs to be lowered. Even if it's compressed in post, it'll still sound bad quality-wise.
Moses is the GOAT, I wish counterpoints still existed. 😢
Love Moses ❤️
there's the bootleg version called talking counter with YNK and Spunj
Last episode of talking counter has thorin and is very good
@@FtwXXgigady we don't need to know to be honest
@@shamsiddin6395 weirdo
I want moses as a guest on HTPM now lol
Yeah it's like he didn't realize which show he was invited to. :D
Every day a new show, love it.
Always enjoy Moses on the broadcast and shows
Banger episode.
Would be interesting to have a show similar to the LoL Worlds one ranking the most impressive major winners - feels a lot of context has got lost in time e.g. Olof and Guardian both being injured at MLG Columbus, Cloud9's playoff run being against the top 3 ranked teams in the world at Boston etc.
Snipe2Die shoutout from Thorin! ❤
I've been looking forward to the 1st episode of counter banter
Great episode!
Great and spicy episode, now I wish for a special edition of HTPM with Moses
I was wondering if thorin and moses were working together a while back glad to see them together again
Moses is the man. Great content as always
As usual thorin is very funny so thanks I really enjoyed this episode.
Linkin Park and Balls energy drink pre-face to Moses ugly point about Liquid was golden, lmao
moses thought he was on hot take point made with that first good point
Much love little Momo!
Great show, I missed the bald eagle.
Nice take on BO1s moses. This major converted me to liking them. I used to think upsets were bad, but I find it entertaining now.
How does dupreeh's major not count 🤣 do majors only have any weight for players if they're hard carrying or top fragging? He had supportive roles bruh
Also without that insane vertigo performance he had vs cloud9, Vitality would not have been in the major.
He meant in terms of goat resume or saying you were the best player on the team contributing the most it certainly counts as a major
bro you are not understanding what they are saying, they mean in terms of GOAT winning that 5th major still isn't going to help him be in contention for goat that's like saying Robert Horry is the goat.
@@dentonkellyjr8095 In NBA terms, Dupreeh would be Bill Russell imo. And I think it absolutely should have meaning in the GOAT debate. Dupreeh proved he can win on an English-speaking team where he has basically no star roles. Of course I can agree s1mple is the best, but Thorin discredits the win as if it has no merit for Dupreeh's legacy on the game because he isn't putting up star numbers.
@@meeeeemaw who cares about thorin takes dupreeh without a doubt is the goat rifler. Thorin takes r jokes.
I think BO1 for teams with no losses up until the last game luke we have but I think after 1 loss bo3 should come in.
I totally agree that the seeding at majors is so incredibly broken. As Moses said it is no fault of Vitality's, but on paper the 'strongest' team they played were G2 who are currently ranked 6th and were number 1 at the time (I believe).
I cannot think of another esport where a team would play teams this 'weak' in a Tier 1/World Championship event.
G2 cannot even defeat fnatic and bne
Don't call them strong team. Itb,apex and gl where much stronger than G2 for sure in majors.
Also ranking doesn't matter,if u take Hltv rankings seriously than u don't know much about csgo.
Thorin's rant about ZywOo is pure gold. This was the only major I ever saw him play an above trash playoff game LOL
Maui smoking some loud zywoo not even above niko and device is goat conversation
Device and Niko not even close to zywoo. Go play ur silver mm games now bruh.
@@The_condom_man zywoo slightly above shiro and broky he not great enough to set up devices mouse and keyboard lil boy
@@tylerswales4096 device is not even close to zywoo,device is only comparable to the likes of broky and sh1ro. Device was trash outside of Astralis we already saw what device was in nip lmao. Don't even compare device to zywoo,it's an insult to zywoo Lil boy.
@@The_condom_man more mvps greater longevity better in playoffs literally better by every metric other than zywoo having 2 really good years anyone who thinks zywoo is even top 3 in csgo all time is telling on themselves that they're 14 and started watching yesterday
@@tylerswales4096longevity doesn't matter,to that logic Ronaldo is better than messi?all his trophies,MVP and everything came because he played in prime Astralis literally the goat team of csgo,give zywoo team like prime Astralis and he can win even more trophies and MVP over device. Device individually doesn't even comes close to zywoo,zywoo has far better stats and even top 1 2x times in a row,how many top 1 for device btw?even casters, analysts and pros admitted that zywoo is better than device. If u don't think zywoo is not top 3 greatest pro to ever touch csgo or even top 2. Than u don't know sh*t about csgo sadly. And just started to watch csgo recently. Zywoo is a player who is caliber of Ronaldo/messi and device is kind of like pele.
Dev1ce may not have the sexiest play style to watch, but he does have one of the sexiest play styles to analyze. I still find it astonishing that he never ended up being HLTV #1 (I guess S1mple had something to do with that). For me, Dev1ce was the GOAT until 2021, at which point I think S1mple definitely overtook him.
Maui was "wildin" with his bad point that ZywOo is getting close to challenging S1mple for number 1. Honestly ZywOo ranks below Dev1ce and GeT_RiGhT for me but above Coldzera.
i'd say cold still has the edge over ZywOo but that's me
Ur comment is literary a joke 🤣 zywoo is way better than device,get_right and coldzera combine. Zywoo is only comparable to s1mple not with those players even stats says the same.
@@dentonkellyjr8095 lol how?zywoo worst stats is better than coldzera best stats. It will take 100 coldzera to even touch zywoo worst stats overall.
@@dentonkellyjr8095 who is coldzera?
Australian summer 😂
Just out if interest does anyone think there is a possibility within the next year of Yekindar going to Navi if Liquid keeps having poor results? Feel like this is very possible due to him now belonging to Liquid meaning that if Navi bought him out they wouldn't be contributing to the Russian economy due to the war. Think Yeki, B1t and Simple could be a deadly trio for the team but would love to hear what everyone thinks! Think it's been quite overlooked how disappointing Navi's results have been for this major and it's clear that either something needs to change or they just have to pray that Simple's form returns to his god tier performances from 2021 which is far less reliable than finding a second or third star like Yekindar.
Yekindar needs to go into vita rather going into Navi,imagine trio of zywoo+spinx+yekindar.
@@The_condom_man Not sure how they could do that though coming off a major win, Dupreeh would have to retire for that to happen which is still a question mark and Vitality would face some pretty rough PR if they decided to bench him. Navi just seems to make sense considering how Nitro is on his way out and Elige's form is terrible so I don't see how Yeki would stay in Liquid during his prime unless they built a team around him which I doubt.
@@colbyjones9059 dupreeh will most likely retire at some point. Vitality needs strong entry like yekindar,just because vitality doesn't has good entries right now,apex is very weak as entry.
@@The_condom_man That's true, I guess it all depends on the timing of all the reshuffles to see which teams are looking for players and if Yeki even wants to move
Vitality won the Snow Sweet Snow major.
Atleast they won a fking majors what about ur team bruh?
what are some of the best s1mple games/series to watch?
Starladder final against ence.
No kassad 😎
Heroic being seeded 5th at the Legends Stage has very little to do with regions. They were ranked 5th, as they finished 2nd in their group, as 9ine had a better Buchholz score. And then the Europe A was ranked higher (also had an extra legends spot) than Europe B. So that placed Heroic beneath 9ine, who "won" their group based on Buchholz, and then the two 3-0 winners of EU A, which was NaVi and Fnatic.
#1 - NaVi - Winner of Europe-A based on Buchholz
#2 - 9ine - Winner of Europe-B based on Buchholz
#3 - Fnatic - Runner up in Europe-A based on Buchholz
#4 - Furia - Winner of the American RMR
#5 - Heroic - Runner up in Europe-B based on Buchholz.
So yes, Furia was ranked above them, but otherwise it was down to Buchholz and the fact that the European Group A was seen as better than European Group B.
Always take what they say with a mountain of salt , they aren't as competent as they think they are.
and it is stupid as they say
heroic was top seed in rmr b and overall top seed in whole rmrs as major finalists in rio
they go 3-0 and they got 5th seed cuz of stupid maths
Hear me out..... NAF, Yeki, Ima, siuhy, regali
Hltv ranking are a joke. Liquid win 1 game on partnered event =+2 in rank. 9nine or Monte win 35 games in t2 = +1 on ranking.
Btw apeks and monte are now in the top10. Technically, they are top10 teams.Those t1 teams shit the bed in bo3 against gl, itb and apeks.
Then Navi's major would also be weak major. G2 with amanek and jackz, Vitality with kyojin, missuta, Tl with stewie and Fallen etc.
These teams are so called "weak", because they do not have Blast and ESL partenerships, thus they do not get to show their talent on big stages, also hampering their rankings.
Once or twice can be called a fluke, but if upsets are happening so frequently, then maybe, T1 teams are not as strong as you think they are. For e.g. Monte beating Navi ITB beating Faze, ITB beating Fanatic, Apeks beating NIP, Apeks beating Liquid, Gamelegion beating Heroic and so many more.
Also Vitality have recently beaten G2, they won Rio beating C9, Heroic, Faze, OG. The only team that could have beaten them in the majors was just Heroic, and fine I would have loved to see it, but again Cadian had to be a hero, did a stupid play and lost their team the map on Inferno. Rest all teams had either mental flaws (like G2 choking on Vertigo, or roster changes needed to happen (like Navi).
So keep discrediting Vitality's run and hoping Vitality players are really sad because "in the future" some random chronically online people will "look back" and say that "their major was too easy compared to x,y,z" for purposes of arguing with each other on the internet. Or because some random internet accounts decide to rank the major runs and vitality's at the bottom which means... absolutely nothing.
Really missing Counter Points rn.
Being romanian and hearing Duncan praise iM so much on his first important appearance in a tournament is actually hear warming. I will go and search for a clip with his actual highlights at the major ❤
42:30 That was a well deserved spanking by Thorin to his boy Maui. Holy shit dude, why are you keep trying to say simple might not be the goat, he obviously is the fucking goat. Just stop. If this shit keeps up, one year later he's gonna say monesy is the goat over simple lol
Also agree with Moses, if some is gonna challange simple's goat status, obviously it is Device.
unparalleled lack of comprehension
Device is not close to s1mple only zywoo.
what do you think about this liquid lineup? naf, yek, elige, junior, grim? And ofc elige is IGL.
Man wants EliGE to bald even faster. On a serious note, his non-confrontational nature is a dealbreaker far that angle, even if he is a smart studious player.
JUNIOR? And getting Grim bavk probably wont happen, He should go to europe imo.
@@MrSunnyboy1999 since he is almost always disagreeing with everyone with his silence, how about he lead the team? how about he runs the team they WAY HE WANTS TO? after all, he has been play for liquid for 8 years, why not IGL?
@@d.cirovic1695 junior is an absolute beast rn, idc about his past, rn rn he is beasting everyone. grim should take elige star player roles, grim, yeki and naf GOD-like trio, elige will igl, junior will frag the fuck out with awp = ez
@@wrx1th873That's exactly the thing. He's had more than enough opportunites to exert more influence over the team's calls and he's never taken them. Look at the last two years. nitr0 isn't a stubborn caller and EliGE has known him for ages but somehow YEKINDAR took over calling duties before him.
(From 2019 to the end of CSGO) Zywoo started playing and instantly became the best till the end of the game : 15 MVPs , three times ranked 1st including this year , twice ranked 2nd .
S1mple in this period : 13 MVPs , Twice ranked 2nd , Twice ranked 1st , nobody knows if he's gonna be 2nd or less this year .
Dev1ce isn't even in the conversation bcuz he is worst than these two in almost everything.
S1mple didn't had 13 MVP it was 10 and he was top 1 only and top 2 twice,zywoo had 15 MVP as well top 1 twice and top 2 twice. Zywoo is the most accomplished for sure.
I like the Bo1s. It's up to the best teams to win, not for the smaller teams to lose.
btw thorin, s1mple won 5 online mvps. stop overrating him.
also the argument for longevity is bullshit. winning 20 mvps in 5 years > winning 20 mvps in 10 years.
If longevity is everything than Ronaldo is better than messi🤣😂 by that logic. Thorin takes r literally joke without a doubt.
Okay but zywoo doesn't have 20 mvps so what's your point? Half of zywoos mvps are online and he still has less than s1mple
@@tylerswales4096 u r talking as if s1mple didn't farm his MVP in online as well. Also yes s1mple has more mvp just because he played 8 yrs of csgo,while zywoo only played 4 yrs. If u compare them in 4 yrs,S1mple had only 10 or 11 MVP and he was top 1 only one time and top 2 twice,zywoo had 15 MVP as well as top 1 twice and top 2 twice with a major on top of that. Zywoo is the more accomplished for sure in same age what s1mple was 4 yrs ago.
@@The_condom_man s1mple was top 1 in 2021 and 2022, zywoo is top 1 in 2019 and 2020 and 2023
@elginng1993 why are you taking the opinions of the hltv team as definitive evidence? S1mple by stats alone has been the best player in the world in like 4 different years
Liquid need to drop Osee and pick up w0nderful plz
Liquid could get a Brazilian let's say, and only keep 2 NA players