Hardest thing for wood workers: Never, never, NEVER, point to, and apologize for, any perceived defect in your project. You know, "Her - Oh, that looks so nice. You - Yes, but if you look way under here, you can see a sandpaper scuff I didn't get out." Sam Maloof said, "When someone pays $X,000 for a chair, he doesn't want to know what's wrong with it." When the customer says, "Oh, that looks so nice", you say, "Thank you". If you are selling it, say, "Thank you. I am sure you'll enjoy it."
Not certain about the points made but ,if anyone else wants to uncover make money from woodworking try Letza Woodworker Lessons (do a google search ) ? Ive heard some amazing things about it and my work buddy got great success with it.
I did sales for 5 years. I would highly recommend when you are getting details from a client about a product, you ASK them what their budget is for this specific project. It gives you a good window of expectation. Then you can make tweaks to stay within that budget. It will go a long way.
Number 6 (and most important): Build pieces and sell them at craft/home shows. That way you never have to deal with deadlines and whiny customers. The buyer sees the product, buys it, and you never see them again. Perfect!
Hey guys, I am learning so much about the woodworking industry. Being an industrious person myself. I have learned the word customer is not a good name for those you would love as clients. See customer go into the ShopRite and buy the deals that the warehouseman put on the shelves. But clients are in your portfolio and you brought there ideas to life. You have become a creator in life. A trustee for there beneficial interest. Which makes them clients for life but if they are customers they will shop any grocery store. When you change the language it does trigger different mind set. Because it doesn't matter what business the sales are in as long as you can bring your your clients portfolios with you. Thank you for the contribution to The Woodworking industry. please don't take this as criticism it is only a contribution.
Davis man I got to tell you I think you're wrong about your advice to apologize profusely. I've been in the service business as a home repair contractor for 20 years and I have found that if you're upfront and honest you don't have to apologize profusely. Of course apologies sometimes are necessary but I found that profusely is not required and can actually be detrimental to the impression you leave behind. Confidence, knowledge and skill rarely require anything more than an explanation if things don't go the way you expected them to. Love what you kids are doing!
Absolutely right, guys! It took me a while to get the confidence to charge the proper going rate. I think I've sorted that out now. All your advice is spot-on 👍🏻
You are spot on with the sales information. Sales is what I do for a living. I’ve quoted jobs that are $500,000. There’s one thing that was talk to me you can always come down you can’t go back up with prices.
Excellent points. I built a custom storage table to a customer's very bizarre specifications. I ran across them a year later as our region was recovering from a severe flood. Because the table I built was one of the few items in their house that survived, I ended up making a lot of money helping them with custom cabinets and other pieces. They didn't have any problem with the price or timeline I gave since our previous experience did the talking for me. They also recommended me to others and I had to turn business down because of too much work. Oh well.
Also, your definition of sales is the first one that actually makes sense and makes me comfortable with sales. I have always had an issue and distrust of salespeople but your definition drops that wall for me! Thanks!
Yeah be careful. Once you start trying to improve your life, a lot of people will try to push you over... You make them uncomfortable because you're implicitly saying your current life isn't good enough.
Several books to read... "Who moved my Cheese", "The Gerber Method", "Cash Traps" and "The Seven Habits of Effective People". just my two cents after running a remodeling business. Good Luck.....!
Both of you have a lot of practical advice that I don’t hear too often. I appreciate you both and hope your business continues to take off. Thank you for the content and great advice.
Nominated for woodworking's cutest couple of the year! Great vids guys! Just invested in a small workshop and advice from folks like you is invaluable!
On the topic of stains, I have what I call my memory stick. It's a 2ft strip of maple (most common wood I use) with 1" strips of stain on it per side and the name of the stain in a small 1/4 margin between colors. Each side has a different color family (darks, lights, and oils) so that I can show clients the basics and they can choose what they like best.
I'm not exactly a wood worker, but I am a furniture flipper. I have to say the biggest tip I take from so many of your videos is DON'T UNDERPRICE YOUR STUFF. I am definitely that person that "feels" like things are too expensive. The first piece I ever sold was a tall 5 drawer dresser that I posted for $150 and was talked down to $125. A neighbor saw the piece before the buyer came to pick it up and wanted to buy it. I told him it was already sold. He asked how much. When I told him, he was so frustrated. He said, "Are you kidding me? You got ripped off. They sell brand new dressers at IKEA for $300 and you just made a one of a kind hand painted piece and sold it for $125?!?!" And he was right. The reason I thought it was priced to high is because it is out of MY price range....but I'm not my customer. I have to re-tell myself this story every time I price new pieces. Thanks for all the vids and the podcasts.
I have watched a few of your videos and you guys do good work, but I don't like how you talk about pricing. It feels like you are always trying to take advantage of your customers and charge them the maximun they can pay. At least that is how I would feel if I was one of your customers watching your videos. Rarely do I hear you discuss pricing in the context of the cost of materials, the time it takes to make it or other relevant factors. IMO Having inconsistent pricing is something that can kill your business.
Then you haven't watched many of our videos. Every project video has a breakdown of the pricing. We start with the budget and work backwards to determine quality. Almost all our customer watch these videos and still love everything they've bought.
I’ve watched many of JD’s videos. I disagree with your assessment, but I can understand why a person might perceive it that way. It took a long time for me to understand the value of a person’s time. It takes time to accomplish the task of making something. But, if you don’t consider the time it took to build the skills necessary to accomplish the task, and factor in all of the things that can and do go wrong, then you’re missing out. Go ahead and build one cutting board. In addition to materials, add in how much you would estimate an employee would want to perform the tasks, the amount you estimate a manager would need to hire, train, and rehire, and retrain should the employee walk away from the job, the waste created by new employees doing the job incorrectly, the cost of either inspecting their work for quality or loss of business from poor quality, utilities, insurance, facilities, sales, marketing, bookkeeping, taxes, research, nonproductive time, machinery, tools, consumables, growth costs, and whatever life throws at you. I can’t even begin to tell you how much time they’ve probably spent just getting into the mindframe they have now. In case you can’t tell, they are systematically seeking out the best information they can, and incorporating it into their business so they can create something big. They aren’t just trying to create a woodworking business where they can work. They’re creating a business that employs others, and has systems that will allow them to not only generate income, but will probably have systems and processes in place that allow it to be sold. Most people develop themselves by watching garbage on TV/Social media. JD is feeding off of much better info.
Wow! This is exactly what I needed to hear right now! I just started my woodworking business this year and these are the things I struggle with. I’m glad to hear that others struggle with the same! Thanks and keep up the great content!!
Joshua Eury how have things gone for you? I’m looking into getting a cnc and starting and Etsy. Just want to do small stuff to make a few extra dollars on my time off. I have watched several of their videos and they’re full of good info
#2 is a biggie...when I first started making custom countertops (pre- solid surface materials) I made the mistake of giving the customer the whole set of laminate chips (samples) to pick out their finish ...biiig mistake..too many choices!
As a beginner wood worker, I'd like to know where to sell my projects other than Craigslist or Facebook! Great video guys. I learned a lot that I would not have thought of. Thanks for sharing.
Here's a few for you: NEVER EVER say you can "knock it out" (2:17) it devalues your work and makes it sounds like anyone can do it. 2. Watch out for the shadows in your videos, it is really distracting. 3. Never sell a $3,000 desk for $1,500 you will loose money or you have overpriced it to begin with. Having someone drop the price by 50% says they were trying to screw you. Sure fire way to loose business.
im guilty of over explaining, be it in woodworking or painting. As I go on and on, I see their eyes wander, and slowly roll to the back of their heads....at which point I would ask "you REALLY don't care, do you?" With a big smile and a huge sigh of relief, the reply has always been "YEAH!"
You guys always have a way of putting an entertaining voice to things that I already have floating around in the back of my head!! Hearing them said out loud is a great way to double down on striving to be a success!! Great job guys!!
I have 2 businesses and I don't do contracts. A pest control business of over 20 yrs and they way I have I have found it to be if you're good they will come back. If I make a cutting board I get top dollar because its the last one they need. If you make furniture make it to last forever within reason. You kids on right track but I'm thinking ya may kinda be pushing yourselves to hard...been watching a lot of your vids back to back and the 100 cutting boards one puzzled me. Your making a ton of cutting boards everyone else can make...can you make one no one else or very few can can make? There is batching out and there is unique. Yes I make the 125.00 cutting boards and also make the 600.00 cutting boards. Just words of wisdom from an old fella ...your on the right track. Good luck to ya
@@jennieanddavis Indeed. I Think we have a great community and i believe it is a good thing to support each other and to learn from each other. We live in a crazy world where we make war and argue with each other, I like to make friends and work together. That is what i liked about your video here too, you share to help other people, that is a great thing! well done my friends!
Ok i will say yes all the time then even if I can not. This is what I getting from this. Best thing is if you can't not then say no i can't build it or i can probably try it.
@@jennieanddavis I didn't mean to offend just found it funny your whole point was to keep it simple and it had the most complex answer given out of all the questions
I also thought I would do better by selling at a cheaper rate then ikea etc. 1. the product is better 2. Custom made most of the time. I just wanted the deal and give them a better price then those expensive over priced retailers.
My biggest struggle is getting people to narrow down what they want. Any time I try to only get simply guidance options, the reply is always, "Well, what are my options?" You mention "light brown, dark brown, or grey", they'll say, "Oh, I'm not sure...I might prefer brown, but the RIGHT gray could win me over". Even down to something as simple as "would you like a knob on your drawer, or a bar pull?" Everything tends to end up, "What are my options?".
That’s why you give the customer the ✨illusion✨ of choice. They don’t actually want choices. Chick-fil-A and In-N-Out win partly because their menus are so simple, and their product incredibly consistent.
Another great video with great advice. I've just started to build things for myself and the cost can be a real eye opener. When you add labor and profit margins to get a cost it can be a turn off. I glad your advice is to pitch it and let the customer decide if it's something they would pay. Love the video.
You contradicted yourself a bit in the 'Low Self Confidence' section. Having awareness of your skills is what can give you the confidence to say 'No' when someone asks if you can build a piece they're showing you. Mindlessly yet confidently saying yes to any request can cause you to run into quality, budget or schedule mishaps.
Some things I disagree with- number 4- your comment regarding how "in this field being on time and under budget is unusual " is generally, well, false, and honestly almost offensive to those of us whom are professional woodworkers not viewing this as some side gig. I've rarely, in my area, seen the majority of projects for customers from myself or my competitors come in over budget or late. That perception comes from what people hear mostly, complaints. It more rare to hear compliments than complaints, so since the majority of what's stated is in the negative it becomes the dominant narrative. Remember, perception it 9/10ths reality. Number 5- charging over market value. Unfortunately, most will look predominantly at price as the deciding factor in purchasing any item. Noone will pay $50 for a hamburger at McDonald's. The market sets your price (AKA your competitors). Being competitive with your pricing just sets the stage for a sale. Being overpriced based on value to your consumer shuts that same door. Your correct about being overly critical of the work you do as to pricing, as most wouldn't know the difference, but shooting too much over an items percieved value just helps them walk away . Food for thought. From a professional cabinet maker, custom bench carpenter and fabricator
Ps- most people do know the difference between particle board and solid wood, and are more than willing to point it out. Additionally, it seems your experience with particle board is limited, hence experience with veneers, laminates, structural curves would also be limited. In the correct application particle board is perfectly acceptable, has greater stability than solid wood (will not eventually crack, split, warp, or twist) and not as susceptible to changes in humidity. I would caution against using prejudicial statements regarding materials without the knowledge to back up such statements.....
That's awesome you're in a place where efficiency is the norm, but the layperson's perception is where you have to engage with the customer and our experience has been with people who have been burned in the past. Also, I'm NOT interested in selling furniture to the average person. It's a waste of time. I only want to work with customers who understand the value of custom work and are willing to pay for it - it's much more profitable to seek them out with good sales practices than to take any random request that walks in the door. That's why I don't mind charging more than 'market value' which is just as arbitrary as any other price.
@@jennieanddavis Noone minds charging more than market value, and I agree its certainty easier to deal with a more educated consumer who understands craftsmanship, but the rule of price set by your competition still doesn't change. The only work I ever do is custom entirely, with no 2 pieces ever being the same in both residential and in the commercial sectors , and in both, many will walk if they believe it can be found elsewhere for less.
Not the kind of customers that are easy to make happy! In our experience, the more customers know about woodworking, the more impossible it becomes to please them. We have different perspectives - that doesn't mean our advice is poor in general...
@@jennieanddavis I still don't think you're giving them enough credit. This isn't meant as an insult to you, but generally a lot of people do know what they want, and certainly do know the difference between different woods and manmade and natural boards. Often then will request something because they like the colour, grain pattern, or simply because someone else has told them about it. You could really increase business by listening to these wants.
Yeah, you're not wrong. We've just found it's much more efficient to find and close customers who have less specific requirements. There's 8 billion customers out there - we don't waste our time with picky ones 😉
I agree. Not all customers are created equal and the last thing that you want to do is be patronizing. It is important to adjust your style to fit the customer.
Hi Jennie and Davis. I'm new to the channel. I love the way you guys are able to deliver what can be classed as the 'boring' information in an interesting way. Keep up the good work as I know I will be taking the advice from your videos. Not sure what Jennie was doing behind the camera at point 4 but looked like she was dancing 😂 you can see the shadow on the wall 🙈👍
I build to order and I stay booked out for a month to 2 months out... But my wife say that’s not o k. I should have a back stock then sell. What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah that's two completely different styles of business. We prefer to do exactly what you are doing. Build good relationships and you only need 40-50 solid customers and they'll keep you busy year-round!
Include price of storage if you want to buffer your sales, tho with this you probably need to insure your assets too. Also it's easier to build up your stock with the same product but it's more complicated with custom orders, but you can make upfront some parts that are same in different products, you could make frames upfront for example, thus you could lower your risks if something goes wrong.
Thanks, The last two points are something I really struggle with. Though, where you live and not being big on the net does have a lot to do with price. Thanks again!! (Jenny, quit dancing in the light @workswithdancers)
Glad you enjoyed the video, but price has to do with the customers you're chasing. See our video on price variation by location - it's not as big of a factor as most people think.
Love your videos. Just 2 things i noticed your edits are very noticable and you could see your partner in crimes shadow dancing on the back wall. I understand i have no bussiness saying anything but i just started making videos and my wife is pointing out some of the things im doing wrong.
I made a cutting board posted on my FB page to show family I got a lot of comments is this available? I had no desire it was a hobby I was learning I told them yes in 2 days so I made 20 Different ones and they are sitting? What should I do? I am not a woodworked I am a DAV trying to make a little money the Army doesn't pay much LOL
Price and sell those suckers! Use our basic formula for price: Materials + Labor ($30/hr) then multiply that total by 1.4 for a little markup. Then divide by 20 boards! Should come out to around $40-$60 per board.
Honestly people started asking us to build stuff after they saw what we built for ourselves. Kept raising prices and reading sales books from the public library. Demand never slowed down 😂😂
Thanks for watching! The video is the important bit. We had a boring thumbnail, but after swapping it we've seen a 50% increase in CTR... So let's just see how it plays out.
Maybe....just maybe....you are slightly underestimating the awareness and intelligence of your clients. Many of them will know exactly what they want...as I am sure you do
I’ve seen your channel for a while and you do charge too much. You can get the same products from other professionals for a lot less. And this is the one thing you don’t recognize.
It's business 101 @lightning48 if a customer is willing to pay for the quality of product A, don't undercut your service. Keep selling your products for what they're willing to pay J and D!
Lightning48 just because you think it’s to much doesn’t mean your right. Things are worth what people are willing to pay. Plus one thing can be expensive in one state and cheaper in another. A house in LA vs the same house in Wisconsin. Etc
Why did a pair if Air Jordans cost 4x what a regular pair of tennis shoes cost? Location, branding, perception of value and demand. Someone else who doesn't care about these things can go pay less elsewhere, and that is totally cool. It's a free market! If their prices are too high, then the market will bear that out and their business will shrink. If people continue to pay for J &D's items at those prices, then obviously they had them priced correctly and others are underpricing their work.
Hardest thing for wood workers: Never, never, NEVER, point to, and apologize for, any perceived defect in your project. You know, "Her - Oh, that looks so nice. You - Yes, but if you look way under here, you can see a sandpaper scuff I didn't get out." Sam Maloof said, "When someone pays $X,000 for a chair, he doesn't want to know what's wrong with it."
When the customer says, "Oh, that looks so nice", you say, "Thank you".
If you are selling it, say, "Thank you. I am sure you'll enjoy it."
Not certain about the points made but ,if anyone else wants to uncover make money from woodworking try Letza Woodworker Lessons (do a google search ) ? Ive heard some amazing things about it and my work buddy got great success with it.
lighting candles in your woodshop could kill your business.....
😂😂 You're absolutely right!
I did sales for 5 years. I would highly recommend when you are getting details from a client about a product, you ASK them what their budget is for this specific project. It gives you a good window of expectation. Then you can make tweaks to stay within that budget. It will go a long way.
Number 6 (and most important): Build pieces and sell them at craft/home shows. That way you never have to deal with deadlines and whiny customers. The buyer sees the product, buys it, and you never see them again. Perfect!
Hey guys, I am learning so much about the woodworking industry. Being an industrious person myself. I have learned the word customer is not a good name for those you would love as clients. See customer go into the ShopRite and buy the deals that the warehouseman put on the shelves. But clients are in your portfolio and you brought there ideas to life. You have become a creator in life. A trustee for there beneficial interest. Which makes them clients for life but if they are customers they will shop any grocery store. When you change the language it does trigger different mind set. Because it doesn't matter what business the sales are in as long as you can bring your your clients portfolios with you. Thank you for the contribution to The Woodworking industry. please don't take this as criticism it is only a contribution.
Davis man I got to tell you I think you're wrong about your advice to apologize profusely. I've been in the service business as a home repair contractor for 20 years and I have found that if you're upfront and honest you don't have to apologize profusely. Of course apologies sometimes are necessary but I found that profusely is not required and can actually be detrimental to the impression you leave behind. Confidence, knowledge and skill rarely require anything more than an explanation if things don't go the way you expected them to. Love what you kids are doing!
I totally understand what you mean! Thanks for saying it better than we did - we still have a lot to learn. Appreciate your encouragement 😊😊
Very seldom do I reply.... I just retired after 50 years being a woodworker. Got to say, your comment is spot on! Excellent advice!
@@Oldtimecarpenter
Thanks for the comment Pete.
Interesting thing woodworking. You're retiring out of it and I'm retiring into it. Good luck!🤓
Absolutely right, guys! It took me a while to get the confidence to charge the proper going rate. I think I've sorted that out now. All your advice is spot-on 👍🏻
You are spot on with the sales information. Sales is what I do for a living. I’ve quoted jobs that are $500,000. There’s one thing that was talk to me you can always come down you can’t go back up with prices.
Excellent points. I built a custom storage table to a customer's very bizarre specifications. I ran across them a year later as our region was recovering from a severe flood. Because the table I built was one of the few items in their house that survived, I ended up making a lot of money helping them with custom cabinets and other pieces. They didn't have any problem with the price or timeline I gave since our previous experience did the talking for me. They also recommended me to others and I had to turn business down because of too much work. Oh well.
That's awesome to hear!! Good relationships make a huge difference.
Also, your definition of sales is the first one that actually makes sense and makes me comfortable with sales. I have always had an issue and distrust of salespeople but your definition drops that wall for me! Thanks!
This channel is such a great resource for useful knowledge. Thank you!
I like that you are willing to share when others will let you fail.
Yeah be careful. Once you start trying to improve your life, a lot of people will try to push you over... You make them uncomfortable because you're implicitly saying your current life isn't good enough.
Several books to read... "Who moved my Cheese", "The Gerber Method", "Cash Traps" and "The Seven Habits of Effective People". just my two cents after running a remodeling business. Good Luck.....!
Both of you have a lot of practical advice that I don’t hear too often. I appreciate you both and hope your business continues to take off. Thank you for the content and great advice.
Nominated for woodworking's cutest couple of the year! Great vids guys! Just invested in a small workshop and advice from folks like you is invaluable!
On the topic of stains, I have what I call my memory stick. It's a 2ft strip of maple (most common wood I use) with 1" strips of stain on it per side and the name of the stain in a small 1/4 margin between colors. Each side has a different color family (darks, lights, and oils) so that I can show clients the basics and they can choose what they like best.
Love your dog had a Dobie of my own for 13 years. Love your content keep it up.
I'm not exactly a wood worker, but I am a furniture flipper. I have to say the biggest tip I take from so many of your videos is DON'T UNDERPRICE YOUR STUFF. I am definitely that person that "feels" like things are too expensive. The first piece I ever sold was a tall 5 drawer dresser that I posted for $150 and was talked down to $125. A neighbor saw the piece before the buyer came to pick it up and wanted to buy it. I told him it was already sold. He asked how much. When I told him, he was so frustrated. He said, "Are you kidding me? You got ripped off. They sell brand new dressers at IKEA for $300 and you just made a one of a kind hand painted piece and sold it for $125?!?!" And he was right. The reason I thought it was priced to high is because it is out of MY price range....but I'm not my customer. I have to re-tell myself this story every time I price new pieces. Thanks for all the vids and the podcasts.
I have watched a few of your videos and you guys do good work, but I don't like how you talk about pricing. It feels like you are always trying to take advantage of your customers and charge them the maximun they can pay. At least that is how I would feel if I was one of your customers watching your videos. Rarely do I hear you discuss pricing in the context of the cost of materials, the time it takes to make it or other relevant factors. IMO Having inconsistent pricing is something that can kill your business.
Then you haven't watched many of our videos. Every project video has a breakdown of the pricing.
We start with the budget and work backwards to determine quality. Almost all our customer watch these videos and still love everything they've bought.
I’ve watched many of JD’s videos. I disagree with your assessment, but I can understand why a person might perceive it that way. It took a long time for me to understand the value of a person’s time. It takes time to accomplish the task of making something. But, if you don’t consider the time it took to build the skills necessary to accomplish the task, and factor in all of the things that can and do go wrong, then you’re missing out.
Go ahead and build one cutting board. In addition to materials, add in how much you would estimate an employee would want to perform the tasks, the amount you estimate a manager would need to hire, train, and rehire, and retrain should the employee walk away from the job, the waste created by new employees doing the job incorrectly, the cost of either inspecting their work for quality or loss of business from poor quality, utilities, insurance, facilities, sales, marketing, bookkeeping, taxes, research, nonproductive time, machinery, tools, consumables, growth costs, and whatever life throws at you. I can’t even begin to tell you how much time they’ve probably spent just getting into the mindframe they have now. In case you can’t tell, they are systematically seeking out the best information they can, and incorporating it into their business so they can create something big. They aren’t just trying to create a woodworking business where they can work. They’re creating a business that employs others, and has systems that will allow them to not only generate income, but will probably have systems and processes in place that allow it to be sold. Most people develop themselves by watching garbage on TV/Social media. JD is feeding off of much better info.
Wow! This is exactly what I needed to hear right now! I just started my woodworking business this year and these are the things I struggle with. I’m glad to hear that others struggle with the same! Thanks and keep up the great content!!
Thanks!! Glad you got something out of it!
Joshua Eury how have things gone for you? I’m looking into getting a cnc and starting and Etsy. Just want to do small stuff to make a few extra dollars on my time off. I have watched several of their videos and they’re full of good info
I love the intro! I love #2 my time in the navy I was good at simplifying things, but with carpentry as a passion I get word vomit.
Now that intro was frick'n FUNNY, given the important message you are really trying to send. Well done guys!!
#2 is a biggie...when I first started making custom countertops (pre- solid surface materials) I made the mistake of giving the customer the whole set of laminate chips (samples) to pick out their finish ...biiig mistake..too many choices!
As a beginner wood worker, I'd like to know where to sell my projects other than Craigslist or Facebook! Great video guys. I learned a lot that I would not have thought of. Thanks for sharing.
Here's a few for you: NEVER EVER say you can "knock it out" (2:17) it devalues your work and makes it sounds like anyone can do it. 2. Watch out for the shadows in your videos, it is really distracting. 3. Never sell a $3,000 desk for $1,500 you will loose money or you have overpriced it to begin with. Having someone drop the price by 50% says they were trying to screw you. Sure fire way to loose business.
Thanks for the view and comment!
Yeah I've seen this first hand.
I love how yall try a skit and mess up, redo it. Never edit those out. This is freaking great.
im guilty of over explaining, be it in woodworking or painting. As I go on and on, I see their eyes wander, and slowly roll to the back of their heads....at which point I would ask "you REALLY don't care, do you?"
With a big smile and a huge sigh of relief, the reply has always been "YEAH!"
You guys always have a way of putting an entertaining voice to things that I already have floating around in the back of my head!! Hearing them said out loud is a great way to double down on striving to be a success!! Great job guys!!
Thanks, Lou!!
I have 2 businesses and I don't do contracts. A pest control business of over 20 yrs and they way I have I have found it to be if you're good they will come back. If I make a cutting board I get top dollar because its the last one they need. If you make furniture make it to last forever within reason. You kids on right track but I'm thinking ya may kinda be pushing yourselves to hard...been watching a lot of your vids back to back and the 100 cutting boards one puzzled me. Your making a ton of cutting boards everyone else can make...can you make one no one else or very few can can make? There is batching out and there is unique. Yes I make the 125.00 cutting boards and also make the 600.00 cutting boards. Just words of wisdom from an old fella ...your on the right track. Good luck to ya
Love your videos! Very informative as always. Can't wait for the next build video. Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much! 😊
This is the first time am seeing video lolololol
.. I watch you're videos alllll the time and this is the 1st time seeing this video.
I could even keep from laughing for the intro. If I don't think I can do it I just tell them.
Giving them options is a good option only if you have a sample to show them live in person.
Awesome video! Thank you guys!!
This is a great one stop video for everything I have been wondering about starting out on the client side! Thanks for the info!
"Tell me Wen!" ... 😂😂 Loved that bit!
Hahaha I thought it was fun! Glad somebody else appreciates it 😂😂
-Jennie
Some great tips. Thanks!😉
Once again great information, the funeral thing was funny!
once again, you 2 rock. thank you.i needed to hear that. thank you.
Great job
Thank you for your honesty.
Thank you for your application
I Think it is great of you to share this with us. These are great tips! it was helpful for me!
Thanks a lot! I see your name everywhere encouraging tons of people in this community - thanks for doing what you do 😊
@@jennieanddavis Indeed. I Think we have a great community and i believe it is a good thing to support each other and to learn from each other. We live in a crazy world where we make war and argue with each other, I like to make friends and work together. That is what i liked about your video here too, you share to help other people, that is a great thing! well done my friends!
Ok i will say yes all the time then even if I can not. This is what I getting from this. Best thing is if you can't not then say no i can't build it or i can probably try it.
Thought it was funny how she was saying keep it simple but explained it 3 times in 3 different ways
Some people might not think it's simple until they think through it a few different ways - gotta help everyone we can!
@@jennieanddavis I didn't mean to offend just found it funny your whole point was to keep it simple and it had the most complex answer given out of all the questions
I also thought I would do better by selling at a cheaper rate then ikea etc. 1. the product is better 2. Custom made most of the time. I just wanted the deal and give them a better price then those expensive over priced retailers.
Lol love the intro
Great video! Definitely guilty of a few of these things. I have been working on overcoming these though.
Yeah we've gotta do another coaching call soon!
My biggest struggle is getting people to narrow down what they want. Any time I try to only get simply guidance options, the reply is always, "Well, what are my options?" You mention "light brown, dark brown, or grey", they'll say, "Oh, I'm not sure...I might prefer brown, but the RIGHT gray could win me over". Even down to something as simple as "would you like a knob on your drawer, or a bar pull?" Everything tends to end up, "What are my options?".
That’s why you give the customer the ✨illusion✨ of choice. They don’t actually want choices. Chick-fil-A and In-N-Out win partly because their menus are so simple, and their product incredibly consistent.
Good 5 Points.
Laughed hard at the Sod to Grave chuck! Nice intro.
Great video and sound advice. Thanks
Glad you got something out of it! 😊
Another great video with great advice. I've just started to build things for myself and the cost can be a real eye opener. When you add labor and profit margins to get a cost it can be a turn off. I glad your advice is to pitch it and let the customer decide if it's something they would pay. Love the video.
Thank you!! Glad you got some good tips from it!
Great tips but one was missed !!
You contradicted yourself a bit in the 'Low Self Confidence' section. Having awareness of your skills is what can give you the confidence to say 'No' when someone asks if you can build a piece they're showing you. Mindlessly yet confidently saying yes to any request can cause you to run into quality, budget or schedule mishaps.
Ironically, the intro did feel like it was my business funeral. Overall it was great and informative, I wish this was January 13th, and not July.
Oh no! Well you can always try again!
@@jennieanddavis I look at it in the light of this: If Daymond John had to close down FUBU 3 times before making it, once isn't bad for me.
Some things I disagree with- number 4- your comment regarding how "in this field being on time and under budget is unusual " is generally, well, false, and honestly almost offensive to those of us whom are professional woodworkers not viewing this as some side gig. I've rarely, in my area, seen the majority of projects for customers from myself or my competitors come in over budget or late. That perception comes from what people hear mostly, complaints. It more rare to hear compliments than complaints, so since the majority of what's stated is in the negative it becomes the dominant narrative. Remember, perception it 9/10ths reality. Number 5- charging over market value. Unfortunately, most will look predominantly at price as the deciding factor in purchasing any item. Noone will pay $50 for a hamburger at McDonald's. The market sets your price (AKA your competitors). Being competitive with your pricing just sets the stage for a sale. Being overpriced based on value to your consumer shuts that same door. Your correct about being overly critical of the work you do as to pricing, as most wouldn't know the difference, but shooting too much over an items percieved value just helps them walk away .
Food for thought.
From a professional cabinet maker, custom bench carpenter and fabricator
Ps- most people do know the difference between particle board and solid wood, and are more than willing to point it out. Additionally, it seems your experience with particle board is limited, hence experience with veneers, laminates, structural curves would also be limited. In the correct application particle board is perfectly acceptable, has greater stability than solid wood (will not eventually crack, split, warp, or twist) and not as susceptible to changes in humidity. I would caution against using prejudicial statements regarding materials without the knowledge to back up such statements.....
That's awesome you're in a place where efficiency is the norm, but the layperson's perception is where you have to engage with the customer and our experience has been with people who have been burned in the past.
Also, I'm NOT interested in selling furniture to the average person. It's a waste of time. I only want to work with customers who understand the value of custom work and are willing to pay for it - it's much more profitable to seek them out with good sales practices than to take any random request that walks in the door. That's why I don't mind charging more than 'market value' which is just as arbitrary as any other price.
@@jennieanddavis Noone minds charging more than market value, and I agree its certainty easier to deal with a more educated consumer who understands craftsmanship, but the rule of price set by your competition still doesn't change. The only work I ever do is custom entirely, with no 2 pieces ever being the same in both residential and in the commercial sectors , and in both, many will walk if they believe it can be found elsewhere for less.
This is actually quite poor advice. Customers know a lot more than you're giving them credit for.
Not the kind of customers that are easy to make happy! In our experience, the more customers know about woodworking, the more impossible it becomes to please them.
We have different perspectives - that doesn't mean our advice is poor in general...
@@jennieanddavis I still don't think you're giving them enough credit. This isn't meant as an insult to you, but generally a lot of people do know what they want, and certainly do know the difference between different woods and manmade and natural boards.
Often then will request something because they like the colour, grain pattern, or simply because someone else has told them about it. You could really increase business by listening to these wants.
@@jennieanddavis Plus, the more specific the requests, the more they're willing to pay.
Yeah, you're not wrong. We've just found it's much more efficient to find and close customers who have less specific requirements. There's 8 billion customers out there - we don't waste our time with picky ones 😉
I agree. Not all customers are created equal and the last thing that you want to do is be patronizing. It is important to adjust your style to fit the customer.
Great advice. Thanks.
Hi Jennie and Davis. I'm new to the channel. I love the way you guys are able to deliver what can be classed as the 'boring' information in an interesting way. Keep up the good work as I know I will be taking the advice from your videos.
Not sure what Jennie was doing behind the camera at point 4 but looked like she was dancing 😂 you can see the shadow on the wall 🙈👍
Haha we both have trouble sitting still... 🙄
I noticed that too. It was very distracting
I build to order and I stay booked out for a month to 2 months out...
But my wife say that’s not o k. I should have a back stock then sell.
What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah that's two completely different styles of business. We prefer to do exactly what you are doing. Build good relationships and you only need 40-50 solid customers and they'll keep you busy year-round!
Include price of storage if you want to buffer your sales, tho with this you probably need to insure your assets too. Also it's easier to build up your stock with the same product but it's more complicated with custom orders, but you can make upfront some parts that are same in different products, you could make frames upfront for example, thus you could lower your risks if something goes wrong.
My advice would be if you're making bespoke pieces, make a few copies, even if they have some minor differences, which you can market in the meantime.
Ahh...for lack of better wording...Win!
Did he say 'holy snot'
Only legends speak this kind of language
Thanks, The last two points are something I really struggle with. Though, where you live and not being big on the net does have a lot to do with price. Thanks again!! (Jenny, quit dancing in the light @workswithdancers)
Glad you enjoyed the video, but price has to do with the customers you're chasing. See our video on price variation by location - it's not as big of a factor as most people think.
Look at Jennie's shadow in point #4. she's messing with Davis
Love your videos. Just 2 things i noticed your edits are very noticable and you could see your partner in crimes shadow dancing on the back wall. I understand i have no bussiness saying anything but i just started making videos and my wife is pointing out some of the things im doing wrong.
Thanks! Haha yeah.....I do enjoy dancing behind camera 😂 darn sun
-Jennie
Jennie and Davis keep it happy. It’s ok😀
Lol...great intro!!
Bruce stole the show. LOL
I made a cutting board posted on my FB page to show family I got a lot of comments is this available? I had no desire it was a hobby I was learning I told them yes in 2 days so I made 20 Different ones and they are sitting? What should I do? I am not a woodworked I am a DAV trying to make a little money the Army doesn't pay much LOL
Price and sell those suckers! Use our basic formula for price: Materials + Labor ($30/hr) then multiply that total by 1.4 for a little markup. Then divide by 20 boards! Should come out to around $40-$60 per board.
Bruce is such a good boy
The big screen has changed him lol
How did you guys start selling your projects? Did you build a few things you thought people would like and advertise them? Or???
Honestly people started asking us to build stuff after they saw what we built for ourselves. Kept raising prices and reading sales books from the public library. Demand never slowed down 😂😂
Jennie and Davis any books you recommend?
I really liked "how to sell anything to anybody" by Girard
Be specifically vague.
Cute intro
#4: Underpromise and overdeliver.
Watch BORN RICH on youtube. Bob proctor from this seminar is the best. you are never the same once you have watched it all.
The Dobie makes the video!
Aww thank you! He's pretty great
@@jennieanddavis I have one as my PTSD dog. The VA gave him to me.
Nice! Thanks for your service 😉
What's yours named?
@@jennieanddavis gypsy
Love the video... Hate the thumbnail...
Thanks for watching! The video is the important bit.
We had a boring thumbnail, but after swapping it we've seen a 50% increase in CTR... So let's just see how it plays out.
Hi you pair🙂, just off topic for a sec but weren’t you guys moving?
Yup. Packing up now. We stockpiled some videos for the transition
Jennie - Stand still while you're filming. Your shadow dancing back and forth on the wall is kinda creepy.
Very photogenic cute couple with nice presentation but the info was a little too basic.
Sorry our free video didn't live up to your expectations
Not to basic for me....very informative I thought.
Most Importantly: DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM AMATEURS.
Maybe....just maybe....you are slightly underestimating the awareness and intelligence of your clients. Many of them will know exactly what they want...as I am sure you do
After over 200 conversations with potential customers, we can guarantee that very VERY few will know exactly what they want.
I’ve seen your channel for a while and you do charge too much. You can get the same products from other professionals for a lot less. And this is the one thing you don’t recognize.
Our customers don't think we charge too much and that's all that matters! We stay SUPER busy with orders.
It's business 101 @lightning48 if a customer is willing to pay for the quality of product A, don't undercut your service. Keep selling your products for what they're willing to pay J and D!
Lightning48 just because you think it’s to much doesn’t mean your right. Things are worth what people are willing to pay. Plus one thing can be expensive in one state and cheaper in another. A house in LA vs the same house in Wisconsin. Etc
Why did a pair if Air Jordans cost 4x what a regular pair of tennis shoes cost? Location, branding, perception of value and demand. Someone else who doesn't care about these things can go pay less elsewhere, and that is totally cool. It's a free market! If their prices are too high, then the market will bear that out and their business will shrink. If people continue to pay for J &D's items at those prices, then obviously they had them priced correctly and others are underpricing their work.
That's crazy tell someone they charge to much when they are obviously selling there stuff.
not gonna lie, the cringe got a like outta me lmao