When I completed my military contract in 1978, I bought a townhome in O.C., Ca. which at the time was 6 years old. Over the years, I went to trade school, learned HVAC, moved across the country to mid west, back to So. Calif, then retired & moved to Utah. I recently went to visit a former neighbor in the townhome complex. Looking out his upstairs window to my former home, the Original 1972 ac condenser still on the roof. Over 50 years old & still running. Switching gears, I noticed HUGE INCREASE in breakdowns with the introduction of circuit board's, inverter motors, R410 a, etc
Thank you Kenneth for the information. I hired a contractor to repair my handler. Said my AC is obsolete. I needed a whole new system. He was in my home for 10 minutes. He only saw the handler. He emailed me a quote. I declined it. I watched your videos. I took notes. I found an honest contractor. He actually fixed the problem. If I lived in Texas, I would definitely have hired you.
The number one reason AC systems don't last as long is the industry as a whole pushes towards replacement vs repair. Any good techs move on to commercial or better paying positions, and fewer knowledgeable techs servicing residential systems. I see 5-6 year old systems being ripped out just because a new tech has been out 3 or 4 times misdiagnosing it and now sales it pushing for a replacement. A lot of people like to focus on manufactures being cheap or the epa changing rules but it's the service side of the industry that is a large part of the problem.
While that is true and companies are pushing for replacement, the fact remains that the equipment is not made anywhere near as well as it used to be. Especially now with many manufacturers using LG compressors. I mean, Jesus, what the hell are they thinking?
@@blackpine6693 i make 30 bucks an hour. ill be pushing for 35 to 40 total package once i hit 5 years. even if i have to bail where i am at. if you worked in hvac as a tech, would you want to be able to make a living wage? you gotta pay your tech, your office, yourself, the trucks, all the insurance, the PTO. i honestly sometimes doubt if the company i work for even profits off the total year from our repairs or if we are just a necessary expense for customer retention
@@MrDeviousdom Copeland scroll compressors are still available in equipment sold by most manufactures. I'm not saying manufactures aren't part of the issue, I'm just trying to point out a less talked about fact that plague the industry. Every tech has seen equipment killed by a previous company or even fellow coworker. But in a larger context the manufactures get the brunt of the blame. Not flowing nitro, not taking time to pull a proper vacuum, not checking static, following "rules of thumb", etc. all contribute to the short lifespan of new units yet it's common to see it on a daily basis.
My old Carrier R12 systems lasted 47 yrs. and were still cooling when I replaced them for rust and wiring issues. I know exactly how a system is supposed to be installed and the tech. did a very good job. The price for 2 simple systems was very good. Now I keep the condenser area clean, be sure air flow through the condenser coils is good, don't exceed MERV 8 in the extra large filter boxes, etc. and never let anyone touch the systems. There are no "tune ups", checking refrigerant, etc., etc. I keep spare capacitors and, after 10 yrs., got a spare contactor...just in case.
I'm currently soliciting bids to replace my 25-year old 10seer Ruud AC and furnace. AC started blowing transformers out of nowhere one day a couple weeks ago and I began researching all of the pros/cons of various brands, stages, et al. Your videos have been a huge help and the timeliness of this one was simply perfect, especially the bit bit about the additional ducts with a bigger unit-- I never would have thought of that. Kudos to you and your team, and if I lived in your region of Texas I would be calling you up!
Blowing transformers? That means you either have a low voltage short or a failed component, most likely the contactor. I could fix that for a $100. Sounds like you found a company that's trying to sell instead of fix. Sadly, most comapnies are like this.
@@jessebates9664 Eric is right, it's going to be a fairly simple issue, rubbed through lv wire, contactor, etc. your current contractor is simply trying to sell you a new unit. I would suggest that you call a smaller company, maybe someone that was referred to you and use that as a gauge of the company's integrity. This poor industry is plagued with companies that give their employees spiffs on selling new parts and equipment, but on top of that, their skill level is next to non-existent!! I can't tell you how many jobs I've been to as a consultant, only to find that I could fix it in 15 minutes where The company couldn't fix it in two weeks. It's truly sad!!
I replaced my system from the 70s about 10 years ago. Not because it broke because it was damaged. It worked poorly and probably used a lot more electricity than the new unit does. it’s 11 years old. I guess I’ll see what happens in three years but I imagine since I live in the north I’m going to get a lot more use out of it since it doesn’t run for as many days.
I have a mid 1990s r22 natural gas trane system at my California condo. No rust. The thing is a tank. Replaced fan motor. Tightened a loose Schrader valve. Filled with refrigerant. Replaced the transformer & furnace switch. It's worth $20k to keep that thing running.
If we could make systems to last 50 years in the 1970’s, units today should last double that. Sadly the trend is opposite. People buy new ones without a second thought and everything they save on the electric bill they spend on repairs. Efficiency curves have a directly inverse reliability curve.
Its true, I bought a house in 1987 that had a Heil system from the late 60s that lasted until 2005, the Rheem I replaced it with lasted 12, and the top of the line Lennox Elite after that had bad coils twice within three years...I sold the house in 2023, and its now on its fourth system within 18 years.
I partially agree with your statements, but some parts are missed. SEER is important, but the factors that made it need explanation. 1) the pressure in the older systems was half with R22 by comparison to the new R410A. That increases the faults for easier leaks and earlier failure of the compressor. This was supposed to be negated by the thickness of all tubing and stronger compressor. R410A has the ability to get colder faster, thus improving SEER. 2) the TXV valve is more sophisticated with more parts and thus can fail easier. Its benefits are import and to open more when the room is hot and slightly close when the room cools off, thus shortening the time the unit runs and improving SEER. 3) it’s well known that DC motors are more energy efficient compared to the older AC motors, but the electrical circuit is another failure point to just the windings and stator. Thus the ECM motor improves SEER.
@@sprockkets Bursting pressures in the older thin tubing is specifically mentioned in the textbooks regarding unrecommended substituting of R22 with R410A. I think its more than relevant.
@@sprockkets Regarding Compression ratio, if pressure is doubled on both low and high side, wouldn't that mean the compressors Compression ratio is still the same for R-410A as it was for R-22? It looks like it would be to me.
I have a 28 year Arcoaire that I just had the condenser fan motor replaced. The tech told me do not even think about replacing it. He said the new ac now are total junk. When he had it apart I was amazed that the compressor still looks brand new.
I still have a 30 year old Rheem 3 ton cooling my 2nd floor in Dallas. Sucks a lot of power but a new one one would be 5k if I’m lucky. Thats a lot an electricity. I keep the condenser fins clean and change the filter as needed. The capacitor is the old school kind. Still working after 30 years. Are we really protecting the environment when new capacitors need replacement every 3 years?
Pretty good explanation but I am surprised by a couple things. Fans are wear items. Are you defining an AC replacement as one where anything breaks? Capacitors are also a common repair / replacement item. Coils have gotten bigger and fans more efficient for energy. However, the one major culprit I never heard you mention was the change in refrigerant and its higher head pressures (more compressor wear), more caustic effects on the AC plumbing, etc. Compressor technology has changed but once again, the head pressures and caustic nature of the new refrigerant is harder on equipment.
I think the difference in pressure between 410a and R22 has a huge effect on the systems in general. It’s going to be harder on equipment to run 410 pressures all the time versus r22
Great video, thanks for that insight. But how about the cost of the super efficient systems, sure they are cheaper to operate, but that to me is a "pay more now or pay more all along the life of the unit". I'm not so sure the payback is working out for most high efficiency system buyers.
My last condenser only lasted about 3 1/2 years! I have a big dog that was peeing on it, causing pinholes in the coil! Not covered under warranty. I now have a fence about 2’ away from it. Ten years so far, so good.
My old home, which I still own and rent out, has a 38 year old Trane that just won't die. My home I live in now, the unit installed when new was a Goodman, it died in 8 years, both the external compressor and the internal evaporator coil magically went belly up at the same time. I now have Payne equipment, fingers crossed I can get more than 8 years out of this setup.
The correct answer is, unless the system is malfunctioning, never. Be sure the condenser coils are reasonably clean and the filters are no more than MERV8 and also are clean. Obviously, I'm not the person who posted the video but I do have an AC license.
One of the easiest ways to bring down the cost of housing is to bring back R 22 units. At the very least we should keep 410 A instead of going to the next unproven Freon. The most efficient unit is the one that lasts over 20 years! Also buy the simplest unit available.
Someone might have a good little business fixing up old R22 units and using drop-in replacements for the refrigerant. Probably a dream, but they'd be reliable.
Soooo, the 'high efficiency' equipment does not actually benefit the consumer because the overall cost will be high with more frequent replacement, but benefits the suppliers by reducing the demand on new investment...figures.
The efficiency of a motor is not improved by making it lighter. A 250-500 Watt blower motor is not $2,000. An undersized HVAC system will have a higher duty cycle, but efficiency will not be affected.
I would add that, exactly like that Cadillac, these gains in comfort, control and efficiency have come at the cost of complexity, fragility and expense.
My house in Arkansas came with a 4 tons and a 3 ton unit for down and upstairs respectively from 1991. In 2016 they died hard and were replaced with 17 sere ones and new 90% efficient gas furnaces. We have the same unit now upstairs and down but they're 2 stage so most of the time the one upstairs only runs at 3 tons but we had a second intake added in my office and another duct to the stairwell so that when someone makes a large change in the set point of the thermostat it isn't constrained when running at 4 tons. They come in the Spring and the Fall to spray soap and water on the coils outside and to make sure nothign is leaking, vacuum the leaves out of the outside bits, check pressures and clean the burn chambers in the furnaces etc.
We have two 2007 Goodman builder installed units on our AZ home. Compressor is going on one so we are now looking at just replacing the units. With the new R32 or R454B becoming the standard 1/2025 we are now also stuck with the decision of should we get units built to the new standard or get units using R410 which must be phased out within the lifespan of the units. Interested in your thoughts?
My mom’s weather king lasted almost 35 years with almost nothing going wrong. I bought her house and ended up putting in a trane xi13 system, motor failures, circuit boards failures and then that had a compressor failure at 11 years after numerous failings throughout its life. Even with yearly tuneups. Then a rheem system that has failed twice and been essentially replaced twice under the part’s only warranty.
Spent a lot of money for a Lennox system that died 5 months after the 5 year warranty expired🤬🤬🤬 5:25 ! I live in the South Bay Area of Los Angeles! We use the condenser unit about 3 maybe 4 months at worst out of a year! I live in a single story 1400 square foot house! The sad part is…i had it serviced twice a year!
A white metal roof and white painted siding is another way to make your Texas home more efficient. White is cooler than silver or galvanized. Stay away from dark colored brick, and rock masonry. Those products "store" the heat from the sun and reflect it back into your home, at night. Solar screens over your windows on the east, west, and south sides of your home is another low cost way to lower your energy bills. While common, black roofs are one of the worst things you can have on a Texas house.
You forgot about the coolant. Did you ever notice when the patents run out suddenly the coolant is an environmental hazard per the government. The production is banned on a time frame.so the coolant becomes un-affordable over currently a 10 year time frame. Then again the motor start capacitors lack of quality help support the service industry. My goodness spend an extra $20 on the $10K heat pump. Comments?
@@lelmus3277 R410A was a patented refrigerant until 2013, which 2013 was the same year all new equipment had to start using R410A. Next refrigerant a lot of brands are going with is R454B, all new equipment will need to be on R454B or R32 next year or the year following depending on the manufacturer. R454B will be patented until 2030.
Yup its the freon conspiracy. Dupont owns the patents. Then once the patent expires it magically becomes unusable and is governed to use the new freon that dupont has brand new patents to. All about money
If older model HVAC condensing units were properly vacuumed and charged upon installation and coil was washed occasionally, other than maybe failed relay, capacitor and condenser motor when older, these units can routinely work more than 25 years. An evaporator leak was the likely major failure after 10 or 15 years. Unfortunately there is an army HVAC contractors exaggerating problems with goal to sale new units. New equipment quality and long term reliability is definitely scary these days.
So similar to your original story about the old truck, back in cave man days it WAS ok to call your friend's brother to put a bigger compressor and oversize condenser in your house. Now you'd be an idiot to expect an amateur to be able to inspect your individual situation with parameters only professionals would know, (your ductwork, etc. example), so that your money is well spent on dozens of negotiable parameters to optimize your unique situation. BTW, central air in Texas is like life support in a hospital. Houses built there in the last 50+ years are NOT designed to circulate air from open windows. The heat can be brutal in most of the state. Most of those houses are in some form of suburb. (Edited original comment from corollary to similar. Trucks don't cause air conditioners.)
I'm in this predicament myself. I've got an old R22 system that still works great, other than being noisy, but I'm expecting to have to replace it sooner rather than later. Would I be better off waiting for the new refrigerant coming in 25, or trying to get a 410A system before?
Same here. Not going to be one of the early adopters of the R454a systems from any of the Big Three. I'll wait until the spring and then get a 410a system hopefully on discount as they try to clear inventory or at least not at the increased price of the R454a...banking cash until then...
I bought 2 new Daikin AC's units in 2015. I've had to replace both inside coils which are only lasting 8 - 9 years. In addition, I have twice yearly maintenance.
You did good for a Goodman, aka Daikin, Amana, my Amana (Goodman) evap coil lasted four years, then the replacement lasted 5 years. Daikin is the same as Goodman and Amana and don't make reliable coils
@@blueskyzone5459 Those units could be low on freon and not working correctly, maybe those old r22 units are more reliable, and I doubt those units are 20 years old, and your saying they never had any work done on them, not even a run capacitor, hard to believe
A couple of years ago I finally had to replace my 1985 system. I really hated doing that but the heat exchanger wasn't available. I know this system won't last anywhere near as long. The most annoying thing is this new one is a Carrier and really noisy.
Newer systems are still lasting 20-30 years. Here's the issues I see and how we can avoid early failure. 1. Old systems used capacitors that almost never failed. When caps fail, they can cause the motor to fail. Change to a turbo. 2. Most people are installing systems wrong. No nitrogen when brazing. No drier filter. Not vacuuming. Comapnies pay bad so they get bad workers messing everything up. 3. Not sizing correctly. Too small and the system will run all the time. Too big will cause the sytem to short cycle.
There is just a new "cheaper grade of everything", that wasn't available before. Case in point, washing machines. Back in the day, the only difference between the one you had at home and the one at the laundromat was the coin hopper. You can STILL get an old school washing machine. They are $5-6000, sold to businesses rather than consumers, are completely serviceable, and will smash through more washes than every machine your Home Depot ever sold.
Planned obsolescence is the cause also, as great American companies who built things to last, now are either out of business, or have their products manufactured outside of America. Those countries get stronger, as we get weaker. But I digress. I have a Trane 11 seer 2.5 ton still going strong since 1999. My other Trane that had a evap leak that ruined the compressor was a 14 seer 4 ton made in 2007. So naturally I was going to get another Trane to replace it because of their proven performance,. However several local A/C companies said stay away from Trane, as they went from being great to below average, having xyz issues, and parts that were hard to come by.
Those other countries get stronger but the same cycle plays out there when labor and production costs become cheaper and more practical in the latest developing nations. It’s a global economy now and no nation is immune from the challenges we’re going through. The ones who’ll thrive long term will be the ones who can adapt and innovate. There’s no path forward by looking backward and if we don’t adapt, we’ll have earned our fall.
I also have the feeling that inverter air conditioners have a lower performance than on/off systems, like they are made for eficiency and then for cooling, whats the point of saving money if it sucks?
Cheaper parts sure, cheaper manufacturing process, sure. However, blaming it from where it came from, is intentionally intellectually dishonest. Then, as much as now, parts have come from often the same place... This includes most especially the device from which you used to make the comment in the first place, even if it hurts some egos.
@@Demorthus It isn't intellectually dishonest to say products made in China are inferior to previous generation products made in USA. It's just a fact.
13 years? On what planet? 35 years have taught me that between year 15-20 most will develop leaks. Most don’t immediately replace them, and enter the hamster wheel of the AC guy needing to charge them up; so much so that many people think it’s an inherent part of an AC that they need charging. Contractors and manufacturers alike parrot this same line of BS. In my area it’s “10 years.” Nothing is made like 40 years ago. Your 1955 Cadillac is made much better than a new one, but the new one is more enjoyable in 50 other ways. Every single thing in our society is made less robust in our society, right down to the microwave, and that’s unfortunate. In English, “They last 13 years” translates to “Fear sells.” Most ACs will develop leaks year 15-20, and most will just recharge them until they get fed up and are changed early to mid 20’s. Are they built less robust? Yes. Like everything else you’ve bought in the last 2 decades unfortunately.
Commentators have covered all the ins-and-outs. Here are my talking points: 1) inferior parts used 2) planned obsolescence by mfgrs; help the economy by buying a new AC every 5 years! 3) higher system pressures required by refrigerants that are continuously being outlawed (by government) and replaced by ‘newer’ refrigerants; seals in fittings fail due to higher pressures 4) microprocessor controlled overly complex voltage transient sensitive ‘brain’ (make sure you have useless wi-fi and Bluetooth so you can ‘talk’ to the system with your phone because you’re too lazy to get out of your chair and go over to the thermostat and make an adjustment)
Planned obsolescence just like every other American product. Either make it unrepairable, or just do limited runs on parts, so by the time a part needs replaced it’s no longer available.
Take all of what makes today's HVAC systems good and make them capable of using R12 refrigerant the system would probably last 50 years because it would not have to run as hard to cool the air because R12 ran on pressures that were more than half of what they are today and because of this the compressor would last 50 years with regular cleaning and maintenance and if you played your card's right you might even get 60 years out of it if you don't mind having it set to 77 degrees Fahrenheit and have a stand alone dehumidifier system in the home that was tied in with the HVAC duct system.
@@neilkurzman4907 my late grandma ac unit was R12 refrigerant and was 35 years old before she was forced to replace with a newer one because it was the original one put in when the house was built back in the late 60's to early 70's
@@Gr8thxAlot The question is just because it’s running is a cooling well and not using too much electricity. When I replaced mine, it became obvious how bad the old one worked. I would probably still have the old one if maintenance didn’t break the line and let out the charge. My brother replaced his unit recently and the new one is much better and I’m assuming more energy efficient. Will it last as long time will tell. I’m in the northeast so our air-conditioning season is much shorter than the south
While planned obsolescence is a concept it really isn't the reason things seem to last shorter than in past. First and foremost cost of materials. In past you only had solid wood to build with. Solid wood is expensive. Then came along veneers which allowed furniture to be built with cheaper wood like pine and covered with veneer, cheaper to build abd cheaper to sell. Now most furniture is cheap... So plastic has replaced metals which reduces cost but reduce life expectancy. Second reason is people desire new products. Cell phones are a good example. What is the point in making a phone that lasts 20 years when your average customer wants a new one every year. Now to the argument in regards to cars. In his example I'm willing to bet that truck never was driven many miles each year. It 1970 the average miles driven might have been 5k a year. In recent years the average is 15k. A car purchased in 1970 would be a junker by the time it reached, if it reached, 100k.... cars built in 2024 are likely to see 100k in less than 7 years and still be practicaly new.
To compare AC units with trucks or cars is a red herring. The AC unit sits still. Never moves, doesn't have to deal with salt, grime, rocks, speed, bumps, etc. At best the only thing that they have in common for endurance is they both are out side. But even then, by sitting still, they don't have the elements blasted at them with 60 to 80 MPH wind force on a constant basis. But both product aren't built to the same durability standards that they used to do. Even with computers. If it were the old quality, the computers would be sealed and protected better than they are, as would wiring. They make the engines smaller to put more pressure and that makes them blow up quicker. ALL of these products are now made to meet bare minimums and FORCE replacement. Because even with your excuses, things used to be made TO be able to be repaired. Now they're made so that if one thing goes wrong, it basically DOES need a total replacement.
The elephant in the room, if only they insulated houses in Texas properly, you could use an HVAC Unit that's half the size and you wouldn't have to build a power plant for 20 years. Texas houses are built like shit. 2x4's and barely any insulation, it's why folks have to oversize their AC Units and use a lot of energy. Change the building code to spray foam and higher r-values and you could heat your home with a candle and cool it with an ice cube.
@badawesome It's the bank not the government. The interest on a loan can double or triple the cost. How much better could the house be built for true purchase price?
Go buy yourself an expensive fancy communicating AC system that is going to constantly have issues even during the warranty period. After the 10 year warranty period good luck being able to afford it. Manufacturers are making it more and more difficult to heat/cool a house which should be simple...
All home HVAC’s are now throw aways. I’m going Goodman next time. The lowest cost throwaway. Sometimes you can even afford to buy 2 and store one for backup in case there is a new Greta Thunburg ban.
When I completed my military contract in 1978, I bought a townhome in O.C., Ca. which at the time was 6 years old. Over the years, I went to trade school, learned HVAC, moved across the country to mid west, back to So. Calif, then retired & moved to Utah. I recently went to visit a former neighbor in the townhome complex. Looking out his upstairs window to my former home, the Original 1972 ac condenser still on the roof. Over 50 years old & still running. Switching gears, I noticed HUGE INCREASE in breakdowns with the introduction of circuit board's, inverter motors, R410 a, etc
Thank you Kenneth for the information. I hired a contractor to repair my handler. Said my AC is obsolete. I needed a whole new system. He was in my home for 10 minutes. He only saw the handler. He emailed me a quote. I declined it. I watched your videos. I took notes. I found an honest contractor. He actually fixed the problem.
If I lived in Texas, I would definitely have hired you.
The difference between older and newer equipment is that the manufacturers have gotten much better with their pre-planned obsolescence programs.
The number one reason AC systems don't last as long is the industry as a whole pushes towards replacement vs repair. Any good techs move on to commercial or better paying positions, and fewer knowledgeable techs servicing residential systems. I see 5-6 year old systems being ripped out just because a new tech has been out 3 or 4 times misdiagnosing it and now sales it pushing for a replacement. A lot of people like to focus on manufactures being cheap or the epa changing rules but it's the service side of the industry that is a large part of the problem.
Cost of labor has gone up. That's why
@@Cody8Pwhy make a few hundred …when you can make several thousand ….that’s why…….
While that is true and companies are pushing for replacement, the fact remains that the equipment is not made anywhere near as well as it used to be.
Especially now with many manufacturers using LG compressors. I mean, Jesus, what the hell are they thinking?
@@blackpine6693 i make 30 bucks an hour. ill be pushing for 35 to 40 total package once i hit 5 years. even if i have to bail where i am at.
if you worked in hvac as a tech, would you want to be able to make a living wage? you gotta pay your tech, your office, yourself, the trucks, all the insurance, the PTO.
i honestly sometimes doubt if the company i work for even profits off the total year from our repairs or if we are just a necessary expense for customer retention
@@MrDeviousdom Copeland scroll compressors are still available in equipment sold by most manufactures.
I'm not saying manufactures aren't part of the issue, I'm just trying to point out a less talked about fact that plague the industry.
Every tech has seen equipment killed by a previous company or even fellow coworker. But in a larger context the manufactures get the brunt of the blame. Not flowing nitro, not taking time to pull a proper vacuum, not checking static, following "rules of thumb", etc. all contribute to the short lifespan of new units yet it's common to see it on a daily basis.
My old Carrier R12 systems lasted 47 yrs. and were still cooling when I replaced them for rust and wiring issues. I know exactly how a system is supposed to be installed and the tech. did a very good job. The price for 2 simple systems was very good. Now I keep the condenser area clean, be sure air flow through the condenser coils is good, don't exceed MERV 8 in the extra large filter boxes, etc. and never let anyone touch the systems. There are no "tune ups", checking refrigerant, etc., etc. I keep spare capacitors and, after 10 yrs., got a spare contactor...just in case.
I'm currently soliciting bids to replace my 25-year old 10seer Ruud AC and furnace. AC started blowing transformers out of nowhere one day a couple weeks ago and I began researching all of the pros/cons of various brands, stages, et al. Your videos have been a huge help and the timeliness of this one was simply perfect, especially the bit bit about the additional ducts with a bigger unit-- I never would have thought of that. Kudos to you and your team, and if I lived in your region of Texas I would be calling you up!
Thank you for that, glad my videos could be of some help to you - that is why we do what we do!
Blowing transformers? That means you either have a low voltage short or a failed component, most likely the contactor. I could fix that for a $100. Sounds like you found a company that's trying to sell instead of fix. Sadly, most comapnies are like this.
@@erichorton1440 I tell friends to buy a spare contactor at about 10 yrs. just in case. Spare caps. before that, of course.
@@jessebates9664 Eric is right, it's going to be a fairly simple issue, rubbed through lv wire, contactor, etc. your current contractor is simply trying to sell you a new unit.
I would suggest that you call a smaller company, maybe someone that was referred to you and use that as a gauge of the company's integrity.
This poor industry is plagued with companies that give their employees spiffs on selling new parts and equipment, but on top of that, their skill level is next to non-existent!!
I can't tell you how many jobs I've been to as a consultant, only to find that I could fix it in 15 minutes where The company couldn't fix it in two weeks. It's truly sad!!
@@erichorton1440 yup, their favorite tool is their tablet they used to price gouge you on a new system you don't need
A friend of mine has an old system that is from the 1980s. Still works perfectly.
Yup. Mine were working at 47 yrs.
I replaced my system from the 70s about 10 years ago. Not because it broke because it was damaged. It worked poorly and probably used a lot more electricity than the new unit does. it’s 11 years old. I guess I’ll see what happens in three years but I imagine since I live in the north I’m going to get a lot more use out of it since it doesn’t run for as many days.
I have a mid 1990s r22 natural gas trane system at my California condo. No rust. The thing is a tank. Replaced fan motor. Tightened a loose Schrader valve. Filled with refrigerant. Replaced the transformer & furnace switch. It's worth $20k to keep that thing running.
If we could make systems to last 50 years in the 1970’s, units today should last double that. Sadly the trend is opposite. People buy new ones without a second thought and everything they save on the electric bill they spend on repairs. Efficiency curves have a directly inverse reliability curve.
Longevity isn’t the only variable to balance in the manufacturing of anything.
I’d love to see the analysis of your curves.
My rheem is from 1978 and i turn it down to 65 every night in the summer and it is still going strong, no issues
Its true, I bought a house in 1987 that had a Heil system from the late 60s that lasted until 2005, the Rheem I replaced it with lasted 12, and the top of the line Lennox Elite after that had bad coils twice within three years...I sold the house in 2023, and its now on its fourth system within 18 years.
I partially agree with your statements, but some parts are missed. SEER is important, but the factors that made it need explanation. 1) the pressure in the older systems was half with R22 by comparison to the new R410A. That increases the faults for easier leaks and earlier failure of the compressor. This was supposed to be negated by the thickness of all tubing and stronger compressor. R410A has the ability to get colder faster, thus improving SEER. 2) the TXV valve is more sophisticated with more parts and thus can fail easier. Its benefits are import and to open more when the room is hot and slightly close when the room cools off, thus shortening the time the unit runs and improving SEER. 3) it’s well known that DC motors are more energy efficient compared to the older AC motors, but the electrical circuit is another failure point to just the windings and stator. Thus the ECM motor improves SEER.
Pressures are mostly irrelevant. Compression ratio is all that matters.
@@sprockkets Bursting pressures in the older thin tubing is specifically mentioned in the textbooks regarding unrecommended substituting of R22 with R410A. I think its more than relevant.
@@sprockkets Regarding Compression ratio, if pressure is doubled on both low and high side, wouldn't that mean the compressors Compression ratio is still the same for R-410A as it was for R-22? It looks like it would be to me.
@lelmus3277 that's my point on regarding compression ratio. I wouldn't worry at all about pressures on an old r22 system. It's all about the oil.
@@sprockkets I think were saying the same things, but with different words. Its all good.
I bought my house in 2011 my realtor told me my ac was old and might need to be replaced soon, 13 years later still running strong
I have a 28 year Arcoaire that I just had the condenser fan motor replaced. The tech told me do not even think about replacing it. He said the new ac now are total junk. When he had it apart I was amazed that the compressor still looks brand new.
I still have a 30 year old Rheem 3 ton cooling my 2nd floor in Dallas. Sucks a lot of power but a new one one would be 5k if I’m lucky. Thats a lot an electricity. I keep the condenser fins clean and change the filter as needed. The capacitor is the old school kind. Still working after 30 years. Are we really protecting the environment when new capacitors need replacement every 3 years?
Pretty good explanation but I am surprised by a couple things. Fans are wear items. Are you defining an AC replacement as one where anything breaks? Capacitors are also a common repair / replacement item. Coils have gotten bigger and fans more efficient for energy. However, the one major culprit I never heard you mention was the change in refrigerant and its higher head pressures (more compressor wear), more caustic effects on the AC plumbing, etc. Compressor technology has changed but once again, the head pressures and caustic nature of the new refrigerant is harder on equipment.
They are not junk. Companies price the repairs out of reason so a change out is desirable.
I think the difference in pressure between 410a and R22 has a huge effect on the systems in general. It’s going to be harder on equipment to run 410 pressures all the time versus r22
reminds me of john deere tractors when a headlight is replaced you do need to take it to the manufacture to clear the problem lights on the display
Great video, thanks for that insight. But how about the cost of the super efficient systems, sure they are cheaper to operate, but that to me is a "pay more now or pay more all along the life of the unit". I'm not so sure the payback is working out for most high efficiency system buyers.
My tech was saying the newer enviro friendlier freon is run through the system at higher pressures resulting in more stress and failure on the system.
My last condenser only lasted about 3 1/2 years! I have a big dog that was peeing on it, causing pinholes in the coil! Not covered under warranty. I now have a fence about 2’ away from it. Ten years so far, so good.
My old home, which I still own and rent out, has a 38 year old Trane that just won't die. My home I live in now, the unit installed when new was a Goodman, it died in 8 years, both the external compressor and the internal evaporator coil magically went belly up at the same time. I now have Payne equipment, fingers crossed I can get more than 8 years out of this setup.
What is an internal condenser? You mean the evaporator coil?
@@JamesAgans Yes, fixed the comment.
Do a video about when to get your unit serviced!
Why?, so they can charge you $400 for something that takes them 30 minutes. DIY minisplits for me.
@@badawesome bc I’d like to hear their opinion 🤷
The correct answer is, unless the system is malfunctioning, never. Be sure the condenser coils are reasonably clean and the filters are no more than MERV8 and also are clean. Obviously, I'm not the person who posted the video but I do have an AC license.
One of the easiest ways to bring down the cost of housing is to bring back R 22 units. At the very least we should keep 410 A instead of going to the next unproven Freon. The most efficient unit is the one that lasts over 20 years! Also buy the simplest unit available.
Always "simple" units here, too. Complexity = increased failure rate.
Someone might have a good little business fixing up old R22 units and using drop-in replacements for the refrigerant. Probably a dream, but they'd be reliable.
Soooo, the 'high efficiency' equipment does not actually benefit the consumer because the overall cost will be high with more frequent replacement, but benefits the suppliers by reducing the demand on new investment...figures.
Nothing is made to last anymore...NOTHING!!
Unfortunately, very true.
I'm a large man and have had a size c Herman Miller Aeron chair for 11 years now without any niggles.
My 2001 Rheem Raka is still rockin over 20yrs later.
The efficiency of a motor is not improved by making it lighter.
A 250-500 Watt blower motor is not $2,000.
An undersized HVAC system will have a higher duty cycle, but efficiency will not be affected.
An undersize unit will have lower cycles and longer runtime. An oversized unit will have more cycles.
Are you familiar with the “fresh air” systems? I just got a new house with a Lennox chx35-24a-6f-10. What are your thoughts on these?
I would add that, exactly like that Cadillac, these gains in comfort, control and efficiency have come at the cost of complexity, fragility and expense.
Just like cars. Every MFGR. Of everything has completely forgotten the Kiss principle of engineering.
My house in Arkansas came with a 4 tons and a 3 ton unit for down and upstairs respectively from 1991. In 2016 they died hard and were replaced with 17 sere ones and new 90% efficient gas furnaces. We have the same unit now upstairs and down but they're 2 stage so most of the time the one upstairs only runs at 3 tons but we had a second intake added in my office and another duct to the stairwell so that when someone makes a large change in the set point of the thermostat it isn't constrained when running at 4 tons.
They come in the Spring and the Fall to spray soap and water on the coils outside and to make sure nothign is leaking, vacuum the leaves out of the outside bits, check pressures and clean the burn chambers in the furnaces etc.
We have two 2007 Goodman builder installed units on our AZ home. Compressor is going on one so we are now looking at just replacing the units. With the new R32 or R454B becoming the standard 1/2025 we are now also stuck with the decision of should we get units built to the new standard or get units using R410 which must be phased out within the lifespan of the units. Interested in your thoughts?
I just replaced 3 25 yr old RHEEMS with 3 ICP heatpumps of like specifications, and 1 unit has already had to have a compressor replaced.
My mom’s weather king lasted almost 35 years with almost nothing going wrong. I bought her house and ended up putting in a trane xi13 system, motor failures, circuit boards failures and then that had a compressor failure at 11 years after numerous failings throughout its life. Even with yearly tuneups. Then a rheem system that has failed twice and been essentially replaced twice under the part’s only warranty.
Spent a lot of money for a Lennox system that died 5 months after the 5 year warranty expired🤬🤬🤬 5:25 ! I live in the South Bay Area of Los Angeles! We use the condenser unit about 3 maybe 4 months at worst out of a year! I live in a single story 1400 square foot house! The sad part is…i had it serviced twice a year!
A white metal roof and white painted siding is another way to make your Texas home more efficient. White is cooler than silver or galvanized. Stay away from dark colored brick, and rock masonry. Those products "store" the heat from the sun and reflect it back into your home, at night. Solar screens over your windows on the east, west, and south sides of your home is another low cost way to lower your energy bills. While common, black roofs are one of the worst things you can have on a Texas house.
You forgot about the coolant. Did you ever notice when the patents run out suddenly the coolant is an environmental hazard per the government. The production is banned on a time frame.so the coolant becomes un-affordable over currently a 10 year time frame. Then again the motor start capacitors lack of quality help support the service industry. My goodness spend an extra $20 on the $10K heat pump. Comments?
I believe R410A is not patented, but R410B is and thus not wildly popular because of it.
@@lelmus3277 R410A was a patented refrigerant until 2013, which 2013 was the same year all new equipment had to start using R410A. Next refrigerant a lot of brands are going with is R454B, all new equipment will need to be on R454B or R32 next year or the year following depending on the manufacturer. R454B will be patented until 2030.
@@FreonChugger 454b is a blend r32 is a single
Yup its the freon conspiracy. Dupont owns the patents. Then once the patent expires it magically becomes unusable and is governed to use the new freon that dupont has brand new patents to. All about money
High pressure refrigerant is a major factor in the lack of reliability of HVAC systems on top of cheaper parts and more technology
If older model HVAC condensing units were properly vacuumed and charged upon installation and coil was washed occasionally, other than maybe failed relay, capacitor and condenser motor when older, these units can routinely work more than 25 years. An evaporator leak was the likely major failure after 10 or 15 years. Unfortunately there is an army HVAC contractors exaggerating problems with goal to sale new units. New equipment quality and long term reliability is definitely scary these days.
So similar to your original story about the old truck, back in cave man days it WAS ok to call your friend's brother to put a bigger compressor and oversize condenser in your house. Now you'd be an idiot to expect an amateur to be able to inspect your individual situation with parameters only professionals would know, (your ductwork, etc. example), so that your money is well spent on dozens of negotiable parameters to optimize your unique situation. BTW, central air in Texas is like life support in a hospital. Houses built there in the last 50+ years are NOT designed to circulate air from open windows. The heat can be brutal in most of the state. Most of those houses are in some form of suburb.
(Edited original comment from corollary to similar. Trucks don't cause air conditioners.)
I'm in this predicament myself. I've got an old R22 system that still works great, other than being noisy, but I'm expecting to have to replace it sooner rather than later. Would I be better off waiting for the new refrigerant coming in 25, or trying to get a 410A system before?
Same here. Not going to be one of the early adopters of the R454a systems from any of the Big Three. I'll wait until the spring and then get a 410a system hopefully on discount as they try to clear inventory or at least not at the increased price of the R454a...banking cash until then...
mine is closing in on 30 years now, bought the house 9 years ago
I bought 2 new Daikin AC's units in 2015. I've had to replace both inside coils which are only lasting 8 - 9 years. In addition, I have twice yearly maintenance.
Once a system is correctly installed (and many aren't), leave the thing alone. Keep it clean and keep "techs" AWAY from it.
You did good for a Goodman, aka Daikin, Amana, my Amana (Goodman) evap coil lasted four years, then the replacement lasted 5 years. Daikin is the same as Goodman and Amana and don't make reliable coils
@@jackfrost-fu7hz Mine are 13 yo now and zero issues but I never allow a tech near them.
I have 2 Amana systems.... both 20 years old without any maintenances at all and working just fine....no technicians ever touched them
@@blueskyzone5459 Those units could be low on freon and not working correctly, maybe those old r22 units are more reliable, and I doubt those units are 20 years old, and your saying they never had any work done on them, not even a run capacitor, hard to believe
Companies don’t make money selling long lasting systems, they need service calls and replacements to make heaps of money
Race to the bottom in price causes manufacturers to cut cost of parts and manufacturing
A couple of years ago I finally had to replace my 1985 system. I really hated doing that but the heat exchanger wasn't available. I know this system won't last anywhere near as long. The most annoying thing is this new one is a Carrier and really noisy.
What is the life time cost of the system?
Purchase price
Install
Maintenance
Repair
Down town?
Newer systems are still lasting 20-30 years. Here's the issues I see and how we can avoid early failure.
1. Old systems used capacitors that almost never failed. When caps fail, they can cause the motor to fail. Change to a turbo.
2. Most people are installing systems wrong. No nitrogen when brazing. No drier filter. Not vacuuming. Comapnies pay bad so they get bad workers messing everything up.
3. Not sizing correctly. Too small and the system will run all the time. Too big will cause the sytem to short cycle.
Switch from r22 to 410a probably didn't help due to high pressures.
There is just a new "cheaper grade of everything", that wasn't available before. Case in point, washing machines. Back in the day, the only difference between the one you had at home and the one at the laundromat was the coin hopper. You can STILL get an old school washing machine. They are $5-6000, sold to businesses rather than consumers, are completely serviceable, and will smash through more washes than every machine your Home Depot ever sold.
Speed Queen
Planned obsolescence is the cause also, as great American companies who built things to last, now are either out of business, or have their products manufactured outside of America. Those countries get stronger, as we get weaker. But I digress.
I have a Trane 11 seer 2.5 ton still going strong since 1999. My other Trane that had a evap leak that ruined the compressor was a 14 seer 4 ton made in 2007. So naturally I was going to get another Trane to replace it because of their proven performance,. However several local A/C companies said stay away from Trane, as they went from being great to below average, having xyz issues, and parts that were hard to come by.
Those other countries get stronger but the same cycle plays out there when labor and production costs become cheaper and more practical in the latest developing nations. It’s a global economy now and no nation is immune from the challenges we’re going through. The ones who’ll thrive long term will be the ones who can adapt and innovate. There’s no path forward by looking backward and if we don’t adapt, we’ll have earned our fall.
I also have the feeling that inverter air conditioners have a lower performance than on/off systems, like they are made for eficiency and then for cooling, whats the point of saving money if it sucks?
The new units are built with cheap parts from China and Mexico. Manufactures are getting really cheap.
Last I've seen compressors, well, most of them, are still USA. Doesn't matter, because they suck too.
Cheaper parts sure, cheaper manufacturing process, sure. However, blaming it from where it came from, is intentionally intellectually dishonest. Then, as much as now, parts have come from often the same place... This includes most especially the device from which you used to make the comment in the first place, even if it hurts some egos.
Agreed @@Demorthus
@@Demorthus It isn't intellectually dishonest to say products made in China are inferior to previous generation products made in USA. It's just a fact.
@drdickqueso Dont blame your country’s greed on Mexico or China. Also news flash have you seen Boeings quality???
They only last so few years so they can sell more and the companies who can only buy the products charge more to install them. This is built in.
no, shorter life is NOT more efficent for me. I own the properties and the tenants pay the electric bill so I don't care how efficient it is.
I'm finding newer HVAC systems the indoor fan blades are falling apart and tearing up the system.
The new A2L remains to be seen what problems will crop up. Of course it’s all Government related driving up costs for consumers.
And now tariffs paid by US consumers.
Should've just gone to R32 and never used R410A. R32 is much easier to manage and runs at lower pressure and less volume to cool.
13 years? On what planet? 35 years have taught me that between year 15-20 most will develop leaks. Most don’t immediately replace them, and enter the hamster wheel of the AC guy needing to charge them up; so much so that many people think it’s an inherent part of an AC that they need charging. Contractors and manufacturers alike parrot this same line of BS. In my area it’s “10 years.” Nothing is made like 40 years ago. Your 1955 Cadillac is made much better than a new one, but the new one is more enjoyable in 50 other ways. Every single thing in our society is made less robust in our society, right down to the microwave, and that’s unfortunate. In English, “They last 13 years” translates to “Fear sells.” Most ACs will develop leaks year 15-20, and most will just recharge them until they get fed up and are changed early to mid 20’s. Are they built less robust? Yes. Like everything else you’ve bought in the last 2 decades unfortunately.
Refrigerant operating pressures are to dam high.
Commentators have covered all the ins-and-outs. Here are my talking points:
1) inferior parts used
2) planned obsolescence by mfgrs; help the economy by buying a new AC every 5 years!
3) higher system pressures required by refrigerants that are continuously being outlawed (by government) and replaced by ‘newer’ refrigerants; seals in fittings fail due to higher pressures
4) microprocessor controlled overly complex voltage transient sensitive ‘brain’ (make sure you have useless wi-fi and Bluetooth so you can ‘talk’ to the system with your phone because you’re too lazy to get out of your chair and go over to the thermostat and make an adjustment)
My ac system is from 1973 and was more energy efficient than the new unit....
I doubt the new junk will last a decade.
Planned obsolescence just like every other American product. Either make it unrepairable, or just do limited runs on parts, so by the time a part needs replaced it’s no longer available.
Hidden eco tax.
Take all of what makes today's HVAC systems good and make them capable of using R12 refrigerant the system would probably last 50 years because it would not have to run as hard to cool the air because R12 ran on pressures that were more than half of what they are today and because of this the compressor would last 50 years with regular cleaning and maintenance and if you played your card's right you might even get 60 years out of it if you don't mind having it set to 77 degrees Fahrenheit and have a stand alone dehumidifier system in the home that was tied in with the HVAC duct system.
I believe you mean R22. And I doubt 50 years.
@@neilkurzman4907 my late grandma ac unit was R12 refrigerant and was 35 years old before she was forced to replace with a newer one because it was the original one put in when the house was built back in the late 60's to early 70's
@@rustybeatty6567 my old unit was installed in 1976 and it was R-22 I thought R-12 was just for small systems
@@neilkurzman4907 I'm getting close to 50 years on mine. There's still some running here over 50 years old. It's not that rare to find one.
@@Gr8thxAlot
The question is just because it’s running is a cooling well and not using too much electricity. When I replaced mine, it became obvious how bad the old one worked. I would probably still have the old one if maintenance didn’t break the line and let out the charge.
My brother replaced his unit recently and the new one is much better and I’m assuming more energy efficient. Will it last as long time will tell.
I’m in the northeast so our air-conditioning season is much shorter than the south
Starting next year will be worse with A2L and SEER requirements. They'll cost more and last shorter life. Thanks EPA!
R32 runs at lower pressure and should be much better than R410A. Using 410 was the big mistake
Everything is like this now. We pay more and get junk now
While planned obsolescence is a concept it really isn't the reason things seem to last shorter than in past. First and foremost cost of materials. In past you only had solid wood to build with. Solid wood is expensive. Then came along veneers which allowed furniture to be built with cheaper wood like pine and covered with veneer, cheaper to build abd cheaper to sell. Now most furniture is cheap... So plastic has replaced metals which reduces cost but reduce life expectancy. Second reason is people desire new products. Cell phones are a good example. What is the point in making a phone that lasts 20 years when your average customer wants a new one every year.
Now to the argument in regards to cars. In his example I'm willing to bet that truck never was driven many miles each year. It 1970 the average miles driven might have been 5k a year. In recent years the average is 15k. A car purchased in 1970 would be a junker by the time it reached, if it reached, 100k.... cars built in 2024 are likely to see 100k in less than 7 years and still be practicaly new.
My Goodman lasted 6.5 years
Everything is junk now, there are few good brands of anything left anymore
All new appliances are shit! Quality sucks & they don’t last!
Yeah Shitty quality products!
Cause we live in a throw away society now.
To compare AC units with trucks or cars is a red herring. The AC unit sits still. Never moves, doesn't have to deal with salt, grime, rocks, speed, bumps, etc. At best the only thing that they have in common for endurance is they both are out side. But even then, by sitting still, they don't have the elements blasted at them with 60 to 80 MPH wind force on a constant basis. But both product aren't built to the same durability standards that they used to do. Even with computers. If it were the old quality, the computers would be sealed and protected better than they are, as would wiring. They make the engines smaller to put more pressure and that makes them blow up quicker. ALL of these products are now made to meet bare minimums and FORCE replacement. Because even with your excuses, things used to be made TO be able to be repaired. Now they're made so that if one thing goes wrong, it basically DOES need a total replacement.
All things being equal, I'm going to replace my 20 year old Carrier system(R 22)/(80% afue), with the latest generation of the same make and models.
The elephant in the room, if only they insulated houses in Texas properly, you could use an HVAC Unit that's half the size and you wouldn't have to build a power plant for 20 years. Texas houses are built like shit. 2x4's and barely any insulation, it's why folks have to oversize their AC Units and use a lot of energy. Change the building code to spray foam and higher r-values and you could heat your home with a candle and cool it with an ice cube.
Great idea. Get the government more involved than they already are and no one will be able to afford a house.
@badawesome It's the bank not the government. The interest on a loan can double or triple the cost. How much better could the house be built for true purchase price?
They don't make em like they used to.
It's because it is junk. I have one site with two, 10 ton GREEN Carrier RTU's. Still going strong.
Go buy yourself an expensive fancy communicating AC system that is going to constantly have issues even during the warranty period. After the 10 year warranty period good luck being able to afford it. Manufacturers are making it more and more difficult to heat/cool a house which should be simple...
Everything including cars are not meant to last more than 10 years….refrigerators ha lucky if you get 5 with nothing going wrong….
Built in obsolescence
Planned obsolescence. In other words greed
All home HVAC’s are now throw aways. I’m going Goodman next time. The lowest cost throwaway. Sometimes you can even afford to buy 2 and store one for backup in case there is a new Greta Thunburg ban.
Designed to fail!
Say what you want but everything built now is pretty much junk.
Cheap energy, you mean like under Trump's leadership when we were an energy exporter!?
The EPA is making everyone poor
It’s made to break. That keeps the money flowing to the manufacture
It’s so they pay me now and pay me more later
Blame the EPA