It's just another case of everyone being overconfident, going through the motions, doing routine moves via muscle memory, then an unexpected element came into play, they all panicked and the lack of clear leadership meant they had no idea what to do and as soon as someone said "run" it was everyone for himself and the blame game started. Did I save one hour and a half of my time?
@@Bishox Everyone tried to salvage it? Oh really? What did the rogue do, besides blinding mob immune to blind after 2 people already were dead? Again. If you're to assign blame of who fucked up here or not - mage would be like no.4 or at most 3. So yeah, it's absolutely unfair they make all this shit about him. He is not the one who did this clown ass pull with 5 mistakes on the way.
yamato was already know as toxic in league community. i do think hes funny but he acts like a child alot. he has always had a huge ego while underperforming
Not only mediating, but being a voice of reason. Explaining how yama was being way too aggro, and (fairly calmly) explaining that you can't treat other people that way and expect them to accept your point of view. It was like we stepped into bizarro world for a bit.
I've been thinking about playing wow but when I see videos like this and I like "nah this is not for me" I'll just stick to watching people having mental meltdowns over a VIDEO GAME.
@@TheHermitSage001 you should give a shot, classic is fun. I wouldn't do HC to start tho, you'll die before yo uget to to lvl 10 a bunch if you don't know the game at all. Most people who play don't take it this serious. Just go to a PVE Normal server and you'll get tons of dad gamers who are just there to chill and play.
It took him 47 minutes to find the context. He watched from the rogue pov sure but its not til you see pirate's POV that you realize how bad he screwed them over.
@@YouCanCallMeReTro wtf are you talking about?The staretda boss fight with him onyl having like 60% mana. "run" was called multiple times, he threw them a blizzard and then ran. The tank pulled an additinal mob pack and a boss, the druid pulled yet another mob pack, etc. If there is a call to run you run, you dont argue or do something else, thats not how shot calling works. 1. pulling to much: tank and druid 2. not havign aggro of everything: tank 3. rogue did really do anything helpful just screaming around 4. Thor ran when it was called, didnt have any mana or skillsto come back and do anything really. going back to help would only have endangered him more. Only redeeming one would be the healer which sadly died to save the tanks life.
@ Yeah I don't care what his group members did, you could have saved yourself some time. He heard the word run and his bot programming kicked in, spammed shields and blinks didnt even look back which takes a millisecond to do. If he looked back he woulda seen nobody was behind him and he was safe. Instead he keeps wasting mana, complaining about having no mana with a mana gem and a pot sitting in his bags. He failed his team. As a mage player I could list a gazillion ways that not only was his play trash, but also extremely selfish.
90% of the time what gets you killed in HC WoW is whats inbetween your chair and your desk,,, he didnt really do anything worth being asked to apologize for and immediately got gkicked, but if somebody really felt some type of way they shouldve called for mak'gora and moved tf on. jumping straight to gkick for not apologizing for someone elses bad call is pretty cringe
It's not even that he's being asked to apologize, people just want him to acknowledge that he played horrible in that situation and easily could've saved the group. This whole "drama" is so ridiculously overblown tho fr fr
@@Winckypoo he could not have saved the group lmao. Someone was dead for sure because the boss couldn't be slowed. He could spam all day and that wouldn't have changed. The only reason the priest died is the boneheaded call by the rogue. Also, acting like someone is supposed to play perfectly to correct a mistake they didn't make and then acting like its their fault for not "saving" the group is insane.
@@NateO123 the boss isn't the problem, it's the adds. Tank will kite the boss back while the mage slows the adds. If Pirate was even half as good as he claims he could solo kite all the adds while the rest of the group did the boss.
@NateO123 There is a 100% chance that Chad healer, who died trying to save the tank, would have kept him up through only the bosses dps. 100%. 0 doubt. You have no idea what you're talking about. There is a 0% chance you're pulling agro off the healer with rank 1 blizzard. There is a 0% chance the slow from a blizzard, that is specced for additional slow, doesn't make a difference in a 2 minute chase. There is a 0% chance of dieing because you'll never pull agro AND you have ice block -> nova -> blink -> cold snap and 2000+ extra mana from items... You just couldn't possibly understand less about this situation. I think I could teach a tech savy 8 year old how to save this party in about 15 minutes.
Because it gave the internet a reason to shit on PirateSoft outside of “I just don’t like the way he talks.” Dude finally showed a chink in his armor and Reddit is going nuts over it.
Yeah thats freaking hilarious I only knew Tyler as the "guy who screams and is weird and shows his muscles" but now among these WoW-people he seems level headed
Its different pressure to play league which is pvp, than playing pve mmo. There is no actual real stakes in wow, there is no wow championship, there is no wow enemy lane. The only anger factor for a wow player is time wasted. But he streams anyway 24/7 so its not like he is in a rush to finish anything. So it makes him much more relaxed. Im almost sure he even got shocked by people getting so angry about this.
100% hardest line in this "You made the right call the first time, when you second guessed yourself you got people killed." That is 100% what happened. Tough calls are tough calls but stick to the first one. People are using resources due to your call, and cannot afford for you to change your mind. Biggest rules: 1. Do not get greedy, you WILL die. 2. Stick to your first judgment, the second one WILL kill you. 3. Always pick the left path when exploring, the right one is not the right one.
Terrible take. If everyone roaches here, tank is 100% dead. The dogs slow, the tank cannot disengage without assistance. Mage casts no spells. If he stays with the group and helps them peel, everyone 100% lives here. Just like Asmon, you have no idea what you are talking about.
@@caveydavey ahh yes, people make horrendous errors and then expect someone else to play 100% perfect to save them lmao. Run was called, and then the idiots decided to "salvage" and got the priest killed. Blaming Thor for this is absurd.
@caveydavey if everyone listened to the first run no one would've died because that other pack wouldn't have been pulled from that druid and they had distance to scramble
Tyler is probably the best person ive seen with character development. The dude went from a tier 1 rager to being a composed intelligent man. dudes insane at chess, too.
@@glatzigoblinmaybe but he can buy your mom for himself with your house and she’ll delete you from genealogical tree, so maybe money may do smth for him
interestingly, if you nova mobs they will attack anything within range. So novaing could mean all the aggro goes on to whoever is still within a mobs melee-range, which could have instantly killed somebody. Though Yamato initially was the one calling out Asmon for not being able to read, it's weird to call him out for not having perfect english, as he is German and english is probably his second or third language.
TL;DR - Tank fucked up the pull, feral dps ass-pulled twice, healer died valiantly and the argument has somehow inexplicably come down to a mage and rogue who both ran away while being barely involved in the problem.
@@kaizerkaeden9473 That may be true But the amount of content they get for having wow beef and wow drama raises views for all content creators included in said drama
@@justanobody0 I understand (I think) you're talking about the drama itself, not the game. But... Come on, it's a bunch of guys having an emotional outburst over a game, it doesn't matter either way, they can change their minds after the dust settles
If the rogue wants to point out the mage doing nothing, he (the rogue) could have pulled aggro on all of the things, sprinted in the other direction and vanished it all off and created space.
One problem is hyenas in Dire Maul can detect stealth, so while I believe it is possible, I think the rogue would need to gain enough distance or LOS on the hyenas? I'm not certain as it's been a long time for me, but the hyenas at least make it a little trixy.
Most deaths I've seen in hardcore were due to panic + failure of leadership. If the stakes are high you either all need to be grizzled, disciplined veterans (which is never the case), or you need to have one good leader, and 4 people that listen.
Exactly this. It's like, why are you not LOSing the pulls? Why are you not pummel or bashing the caster and pulling back? Why did the druid run face first into aggro range? Why did the rogue, while running literally do nothing? Why didn't the mage rank 1 and help kite, why didn't they just, you know, kill the dogs as they ran instead of panicking? Just so many options that are better, and should have been learned from the 60 levels before this, but streamers get coddled up to 60 and don't learn sometimes.
@@Durbyspecial The experience is why he ran and did comparably little. He dumps effectively all his mana into a blizzard for the slow and the blinks away when the call is first made, by the time the call to salvage is made he's low on mp and doesn't even have ice barrier, so he removes himself from being a liability, with given the druid and rogue, should mean the healer can basically just focus on themselves and the tank.
@@MissSmoozie You can downcast blizzard to make it cost very little mana. He had mana gem and robe up, so he could get about half his mana back instantly. Blizzard still slows just as much downcasted. Two blizzards at the choke and near the exit gets the druid out with no risk to himself. A good mage gets the cleric out as well but I'm not mad that he isn't good at the game, just that he left early when it wouldn't have risked anything to help.
I don't know mucb about Wow. COuldn't Pirate do the same spell as amphy by using managem ? Like the speel that put frost on the ground and run + blizzard from far away to slow mobs and still be safe ? While i agree the call was " Run ", it's obvious that you just look back 2 sec and spamms slow as a mage to save your people ? That's why i don't really agree with asmon here.
@@zzephi For someone with such a lack, you sure are interested xD. Get the fuck out of here with your, "oh, I'm such a newb, but this dude is totally fucking up if even I know how to do this" shit xD.
"If you are on asmongolds youtube channel, commenting about how the stream is, you are stupid." (Asmongold will never read his youtube channel comments) I mean there's definitely a better place to do it, but do you just want nobody to talk about anything ever? No you commented here because you're just making a comment about a thing you're seeing here? Mind-boggling!
Says the guy who comments on every brainrot, incel post that gets posted to his own subreddit and has literally made a career since the Depp trial of reacting to the dumbest shit on the internet. Asmon is such an idiot sometimes.
one thing a lot of people seem to fail to mention is how thor shakes his head after he did the blizzard when hes walking down the ramp and panning his camera to check if anyone is running aswell. im certain he was fed up with them and well aware they were doomed. not to say that he couldve done more but that explains why he doesnt rly look back until he gets well out of danger at that point
I'd be upset too if I used the last of my mana to blizzard only for my team to stop moving and continue the fight while also pulling an additional pack, this entire situation is crazy and viewers are all being gaslit from their fave streamers to hate Thor, Asmon did a great job breaking this down and pointing out everything that happened imo.
@@Lunar_Liv Thor was hated for a reason. In case you’re unaware, Thor had a reputation for being the “knowledge guy” with all his tips and advice. But when it came down to putting that knowledge into practice, he never delivered. Before playing WoW, Thor played Ashes of Creation. In that MMO, there was a conflict between his massive guild of 1,500 members and a smaller guild of only 300. What did Thor do? He taunted them, bragging that his guild would utterly destroy the smaller one. And guess what happened? The smaller guild wiped the floor with Thor's guild. What’s worse? Instead of owning up to the defeat or standing by his members, Thor abandoned ship. He ditched the very guild he founded, leaving everyone else to deal with the fallout. Pathetic. He talked a big game but, when it came down to it, he ran with his tail between his legs. I don’t know if you play MMOs, but in most of them, there are items to regain lost HP and MP. The call might be to run, but you can’t always say running is the best option, it depends on the situation. What if you run and accidentally pull more mobs? Then you’ll have even more enemies chasing you. In most MMOs, bosses have a specific range they won’t leave, if you go out of that range, the boss will return to its area. However, mobs usually have a larger aggro range than bosses. So technically, it’s better to run out of the boss’s range while dealing with the mobs in most situations. Simply running isn’t always an effective solution. If you’re close to the door, then yeah, just run straight for it. But Thor didn’t handle this perfectly. The correct move would’ve been to CC the mobs, not the boss, any newbie who plays MMOs knows that.
yep, noticed him low on the first ramp when watching Pirates perspective when pack agroed, definitely pulled that first extra pack. They are mad at Pirate for not taking accountability and yet none of them took accountability for their errors (nothing from druid, and rogue doesn't take accountability for making the call to run "not shot caller")
@@sam0wise I find it incredible people are defending the guy who chose the leadership position and failed to lead effectively. Everyone is shitting on Pirate for not "taking accountability", like where is the leader's responsibility?? Hello, are we children?
In the Pika video Snupy was invited on, he states he did pull both, he's behind an ogre using shread in cat form on the first pull. The boss still would have been pulled because the tank didn't pull back fast enough, and the tank should have pulled back further to give room for the druid in the first place.
@@Earthium Yeah even though Snupy made the first pull it was on the tank for 1 being the leader, 2 not pulling back, and 3, and this is the worst one, cancelling the run order without making it clear he wanted to stop and fight. This entire situation is 100% the tanks fault, and everyone mad at pirate for "not taking responsibility" is just trying to avoid responsibility themselves by making a big deal out of nothing.
Nobody did anything to hurt the group further post run call except for Snupy who pulled MORE. And then the only one who truely HELPED the group after the run call was Sara, the healer who gave up their life to keep the tank alive. The positive outlook on this is that shit happens, but there is one person who is the hero of the group. GG Sara. GG. O7
Mage could have cast two more blizzard at choke and exit without any risk to himself. Druid probably lives. A good mage gets all of em out, but it would be tough.
@@Durbyspecial No tough at all, and not even have to be good. Just not total bad. But it's ok to shit your pants and can't judge the situation and thinks somehow it risk to help when u are already 100% safe. it happens I just dont understand why can't admit it and say sorry. Only because others were also very bad? It makex some excuse?
It's a bit of a conundrum: the type of players who would've been able to get out of this situation alive are the same players who'd never get themselves into such a situation in the first place.
To reiterate: The ogres are Slow Immune and Root immune. The one toolkit option left available is a single polymorph or figuring out a polymorph chain to buy precious time. The rogue had more tools available to them. Even if they cracked both mana sources they'd get about 2 more blizzards, but they wouldn't slow and would get maybe 2-3 damage ticks before they are pulled out of the aoe. Not enough damage, no way to root or slow because mass immunities
@@FlyingAce369 only the boss is immune to root there. everything else would have been rooted by frost nova for 8 seconds. then the tank can keep aggro while they all run out of the dungeon. EZPZ
Direct comparison for team dynamics in a high stress operation. I'm a firefighter. When we are on a structure fire, there are a ton of people involved in the operation all with different jobs. Each person has a perspective different from everyone else on the fireground. If you're inside doing your thing as you should and a call is made to evacuate, it doesn't matter who made that call, the evac horn gets mashed, and it doesn't matter how good you think your tactical position is physically or strategy wise, you cut bait and get the fuck out because someone is seeing something you can't, and when lives are on the line, you can't lone wolf it. You might be gaining on the fire inside, but the roof a floor or two above you is getting ready to drop on your head. When you hear that evac horn, you evac. Simple as. You don't stick around and try to put more fire out, you don't grab a line and try to advance for a new attack, you get the hell out to your sector command, scene command calls for a PAR, the sectors relay their PAR status, the scene gets reevaluated and a decision of how to move forward is made after the evaluation. It's easy to armchair quarterback the event in the debrief/replay when everyone's perspectives are available in one place and you can see who could have done what and when, but everybody can't see everybody else's perspective as it's actually happening, and that's why call outs are so damn important and why everyone needs to heed the evac call out when one is made. That's good teamwork.
this is a good analogy however the appropriate example here would be the evac horn going off, and someone inside the building has the ability to reasonably take someone with them whos stuck without putting themself in danger (i know it doesn't exactly make sense with fire but bear with me here). its the same thing with pirate, he could have saved 1, maybe 2 people's characters without putting himself in any danger if he simply just played his class how you're supposed to, but he was unable to. its really that simple. and people blaming the tank for the initial pull is like blaming the home owner for setting the house on fire or something; at that point its not whats important anymore, its about salvaging the situation. whats also important to consider is, just like an evac call in any kind of institution or company building etc, it isnt as simple as everyone run out of the building chaotically, theres a specific method everyone is taught to avoid chaos. similarly, "run" in WoW doesn't mean every man for himself. especially as a mage, it means space correctly with your abilities to help everyone get out and move as a unit. if strong mobs are already aggrod then you cant just run straight out without helping or someones bound to die, and thats what happened.
You're trying too hard to make a point. It's WoW, not a burning building. Fire is less forgiving than programmed pixels. You either do not respect firemen at all, or are not a fireman to begin with to make that comparison.
That guy is like if Pippin tried to give a speech about how “we could all have done better” because Frodo got stabbed by the troll in Moriah, after HE is the one who knocked the bucket down the well.
it's more like if Aragorn ran away from a single orc and left them to die after they knocked it down the well. He didn't cause it but could have helped and chose not to.
Why did no one mention the fact that they went straight up the middle instead of around the right side with the bug packs? Almost every Dire Maul Trib run we go to the right side, less elites, quicker clear time
I'm glad Asmon broke it down and played the entire thing frame by frame. That druid really messed up big time. Could Pirate have peeled for the team? Maybe? But one could also argue that Fengus had a gap closer charge, so it's also understandable that he ran as far as he can, there's too many variables in play. Do you peel and hit the mobs with nova, allocate all that mana gem, etc. for CC for the team and potentially lose the opportunity to bail out with blink because of lack of mana? Then what if Fengus charges at you, while you've ran out of mana? Can your teammates really deal with 3 packs with elites and a boss? It's easy to point fingers when people aren't in that exact same situation.. Any level headed person would've attempted to peel, if the situation was really salvageable, but in a situation where comms are a complete mess, and everyone is moving like headless chickens, I probably would've roached out too.
As someone who always plays healer, I was happy to see you recognize exactly the problem here. If you are in charge of pulling, pay the eff attention to everyone's mana. No. I won't listen to excuses or blame shifting on that responsibility. If I say mana's low and you don't hear me, you should have checked my bar. And if I hadn't said it yet or at all, you STILL should've checked my bar before pulling. You watch the bars and you hold back when necessary. Period. And if you call run, it's not revocable. Period. The fault here is whoever pulled and then whoever tried to revoke the run command. Not the person who yelled "run". THAT mistake is fixable by just doing it and gaining a reset. Once "run' was declared, any attempts to re-engage to win is a mistake and you own it if you do it.
Finally someone said it. Could he have done more to save them ? Definitely , but everyone is throwing the blame on him for not being "humble" about it when the entire blame is on whoever fucked up the pull. Blame the guy that started the fire for the damage caused not the guy running out of it instead of grabbing the extinguisher on the way out.
@@Borsecann Bad pull GONNA happen now you have mage that can save team and he decide to just run out ... If i group with somebody and i know that if anything goes wrong he will throw me under the bus yeah i'm not gonna group
@@fabienherry6690 And I agree. I would never group with people I don't have any "bond" with in hardcore. In the same vein I wouldn't expect anyone that I'm not at least on a friendly basis with me to risk their hundreds of hours of time investment for the sake of my fuckup.
@ Well even random you at least expect he is gonna try to help or you would never play tank ! Now if you go that way it justify him getting kicked of the guild as nobody would want to group with him
@ In softcore sure. In hardcore where my one blizzard or cone of cold might get aggro randomly and get me killed I won't risk that many hours for randoms. For friends sure, we all go down with the ship. And if anything I would rather have people that think like me in the group, because that is predictible behavior so everyone knows what we're getting into. And just to be clear, I'm not saying my way of playing is right or that you're wrong. But I think it's important to acknowledge that ,just like you and me, we have different playstyles, objectives, expectations in playing the game. And when you have people where that way of thinking is in conflict with each other in a hardcore setting drama is bound to happen. And the one thing that could solve this for randoms ? Having a good/decisive leader/call maker that keeps everyone on the same page. That was what was lacking in that group.
How tf does this guy keep going on and on to argue over someone listening to the call? F outta here with that shit. Ive done DM Tribute Runs even back in 2005 and know you can not be stupid when making calls. My guild is still around today and some key members I played with for 20 years from doing late night tribute runs, Scholo, Strat orb runs, UBRS, to modern M+ to classic hardcore. Group cohesiveness is very important. Him demanding others to share the blame over his call then him second guessing it is a low IQ and dishonest thing to do because he lacks accountability, and that is a lack of testosterone thing to do.
forget the fact that the rogue had all his cooldowns available and got out with 100% health after trying to blind the boss mob... but it's the mage's fault, got it.
Honestly, I think people are just dogpiling Pirate simply because he's more famous. There's people that have never even touched WoW coming out of the wood works to try and say something about this situation, and making personality judgements, over video game drama.
@@citizenvulpes4562 It's because he already has a whole horde of people who don't like him anyways and this validates it for them. Screaming Nepo Baby into the void wasn't working anymore and this fell into their laps.
@@citizenvulpes4562 100. They told him to run, they said they had target dummy run. They all should have just ran, tank positioned bad and druid pulled... they should have been the only ones to run.
But people aren't exclusively blaming him for what happened, they are mad at his whole attitude towards the team, the situation and his constant lies. Are you blind or are just ignoring details on purpose? Thor could have 100% helped them out, he didn't because he didn't want to. He let people die on purpose. He also was mad because of the previous raid which was in fact his fault. He was bitter that he was critiqued by "inferior players" as he puts it, so as revenge he just let them die. There are solid moments in which he could have uttered a simple sentence, "retreat, I have low mana and can't do much, take any opportunities I give you and leave". He spent 5 seconds doing absolutely nothing, then casts one ability, to then spend even more time doing nothing. Runs away, wastes resources while escaping even though he didn't need to, he was miles away from the threat but still casted a shield, still blinked constantly to keep his mana low while focusing on arguing with Yamato (the one who called out his mistakes prior to this event) and even after all of this, he still lied on everyone's face about the situation. The clips are there, the vods are there, his negative and toxic attitude towards the team and other players are there. Seeing Thor as a victim is just choosing to remain ignorant. Not to mention that Thor abandoned his team on Ashes of Creation because he talked big to a smaller guild because of his being a solid 15k members one, and still got obliterated by them. His ego was already hurt from that situation, and then he hopped into WoW to try and show "what he was made of" as an "ex blizzard employee with 20 years of experience" but still couldn't do much while also talking big but showing no skills at all. He doesn't like being proved wrong, he doesn't like being argued against, he won't give anyone an opportunity to talk if it means looking bad on camera. He has no competent social skills when it comes to confrontation. He can't face being wrong. His ego is massive, but he doesn't have the spine to carry it.
yeah the rogue can blind/gouge one normal mob.. the rogue says he is a noob though... pirate was all big talk before that, how he is such a good group player and says "men up and solve this as a group" and "we teamed up and kicked ass as a group" and stuff.. its just pathetic if you picture yourself as a gigachad and then use all your mana for blinks while you could press 1 button and CC everyone except the boss and everyone IS save from that one move EZ
"If you had pulled a pack accidentally, and then accidentally pulled the boss, as a mage, if you're told to run, would you have run?" ME? I'd be in Ogrimmar before the second run was even outta the tank's mouth.
@@t0nje If the Run leader calls "RUN" then That's what I'm doing. I trust their judgement to know when a run is savable, vs when it's time to dump and come back in. It's pixels at the end of the day. I don't believe PirateSoftware did anything wrong. Could he have used other options, maybe, he even has stated he didn't do everything perfectly, and could have done other things better, but at the end of the day, a run was called, and he listend.
@@unwashedotaku>If the Run leader calls "RUN" then That's what I'm doing. You're actually a bot, just like asmongold. This is truly your best argument?
@@valebonfi4482 i think you just don't like piratesoftware and looking for a chance to dunk on him which is fine because he's insufferable but don't defend anyone else in this group because they suck too
@@valebonfi4482 Here's the thing, Vale, every single streamer currently shitting on Pirate has said precisely what the guy you're responding to has said. If a call is made, you stick with that call. Yamato telling the group to stay and fight three packs and a boss is what got people killed. Period. End of story. They were moving as a group, but Yamato wanted to fight, and a good Priest died because of it. Snuppy is allegedly a good Druid but he pulled two of the packs in this clip so I'm doubtful.
The most important thing in group play is to stick together and follow the call. If the call is to run, everyone needs to commit to running immediately. When some players start running but then turn back to fight while others continue fleeing, it creates confusion and fractures the group. This hesitation and lack of unity leave the group vulnerable and causes people who made the right call to end up getting killed. Clear, consistent action is essential for survival.
Yes but if the call is to Run you run out as a group when you're with guildmates at lvl 60. You definitely try to save everyone as best as you can. Pirate had a lot of time to look at his bars and realize he had mana robe + gem and cast 1 rank blizzards.
@@minguk If people make a run call, and then make a careless "uh we can recover this" call - and you support them, your team gets wiped. If Thor stops to support in that situation, and the rest think the call has changed - they get murked by the other groups that were aggro'd
@Fpsmedia1337 I believe you didn't play much wow. If you played a decent amount you can see these guys are a bunch of noobs who can't be trusted; hence when you know you have to run, you just run because if you try to save somebody, most likely, someone will fuck up and aggro other mobs etc... you take aggro and somehow instead of one guy dying it becomes 3 and one of the guys is yourself. If they call run, in wow, you just run.
@Fpsmedia1337 "could" ... he saved himself. I've played enough games to know if the tides turn on you when you do help, dont expect the same treatment, most people up and leave. He made the right call for himself. He was oom and the group goofed. Its hilarious watching it degenerate with streamers into blame games just like any PUG would hahaha. And on main blame - it was the tanks fault. I used to tank in wow.. he positioned his mobs near the boss and clipped the pull on the boss like a noob.
@@mrfrenly My guy, watch Savix breakdown of the death he is actually speawking some sense. In no way is it the mages fault that any of them died. But if the mage played WELL, he could have saved them all. Not his fault, but he still could have saved them all while not putting his char at any RISK
Everyone made mistakes but there is no question the mage griefed the team so hard he had alot of options and everyone died because he never played far worse than the rest borderline trolled
Oh, its just Yamato. This kind of drama happens wherever he goes, whatever game he plays :) Dude just double downs and never back downs and it dont matter whos at fault, it feels like its just a debate exercise for him every time
@@dwaynev6593 right? He shouldn’t have stopped talking after declaring ’run’ If he wanted them to turn back, he should’ve immediately followed up the ‘run’ command with ‘we’ll turn around and fight’ or something So that the party knows in advance that they’re planning to turn around, and not fully committed to running away
yeah one big rule, do not call a retreat and then suddenly change your mind that you suddenly got this when you don't when pulling more mobs while also after everyone scattered for you calling a retreat. Only do that when you do a fake retreat that everybody is in on, or in gaming terms to pull back a little not to call out "RUN!" three times, that is basically saying retreat and run to try and survive.
I think Yamamoto has some communication issue. What he meant by "accountability" is for at least Pirate to talk to the group, not call them idiots(even though they are), and say it's equal accountability and move on but things were blown out of proportions, that's why Yamamoto took a different route, and doubles down on putting some blame on Pirate.
Sara was the true hero all along. RIP Sara, I will remember you in this drama. The outcome of the group lands on the shoulders of the leader. That is what it takes to be the leader, some people are not cut out for it.
I think that's the problem, the tank was the leader who have been calling the shots. But he's also clearly a bit panicky and didn’t even realize he's the shot caller, that's why he got so confused when the Rogue suddenly yells "runrunrunwaitnocomeback". But at least he admits it, the rogue who were the actual bad guy here only cares about making sure the blame is shifted on the mage who made the right decision to bail 😂
@@RisqueBisquetz "run" doesnt mean abandon ship everyman for himself. Mages number one reason in dungeon is to slow mobs and cc. Pirate did 0 of that. If every mage, heck even every ranged class in the game played like this, you can say goodbye to all melees and tanks.
@@RisqueBisquetzcan tell that you have 0 clue what your talking about and that you have no social awareness. The rogue did take some blame for it and accepted it, the problem was that the mage said he did nothing wrong. Not taking accountability says a lot about one’s character. And clearly, if actually know how to play the class, the mage could’ve easily saved everyone in the group. You take Asmon’s word for their survivability rate when he’s clearly just ragebaiting for content? Him bailing just sealed their fate when he was at no risk at all if he helped.
Nah, healer shouldn't have stopped running, they should have been right behind the mage. I say this as someone who has a couple of priests. Its hardcore and someone says run 5 times, meaning its time to leave.
To sum up this video: people are upset about how someone ran after the call “RUN RUN RUN” Meanwhile LoL mains who have played this game for 1-7 months have more game knowledge than the 20 year veterans.
It's more like pulling the fire alarm went back inside to make sure everyone is ok but risking yourself in the process, While Pirate hears the alarm and immediately sprints to the exit not caring of anyone.
I don't know mucb about Wow. COuldn't Pirate do the same spell as amphy by using managem ? Like the speel that put frost on the ground and run + blizzard from far away to slow mobs and still be safe ? While i agree the call was " Run ", it's obvious that you just look back 2 sec and spamms slow as a mage to save your people ? That's why i don't really agree with asmon here.
He's so pampered and used to winning arguments in League by just screaming louder. I loved when Thor didn't give any fuck when he tried to pull the same thing just as he said ''but you are not letting me talk''. God that was amazing.
the hilarious part about hardcore is that you dont even have to play hardcore to experience this exact same drama over a wipe you can respawn from... just having to walk back to your bodies used to start this blame game
I don't play WoW, but I've played other MMOs with dungeon mechanics. If the party lead calls run, or leave or whatever, that doesn't mean stop and try to fight, that doesn't mean hold the line. It means abandon ship. Gtfo. Leave. Stop fighting. The mistakes made were people not being decisive about making decisions. Whoever was the leader should never be leader again. They have shit leadership in a video game, they probably can't do it IRL either
She did what she shouldn't have done, while Pirate did what she should've done. So she's a hero and Pirate's branded a coward. When video games gets too real 😔
feral druid dps player getting them killed because he HAD to get behind his target and aggro the extra pack. maybe if they brought a real dps they could have killed the 10% mastiff in less than 40 seconds. druid couldnt sprint because like a typical feral he used it to sprint over to the trash mob and be higher on the meters
That boss was pulling anyways tbh, the pathing of the boss sends the boss up that ramp into the middle of that open space between the pillars. You pull up and to the side out of range of the boss aggro range. Tank issue tbqh. Druid just sped up that ass pull.
@@Acrylick42 It is a tanking positional issue, you're right. But it doesn't remove the accountability from the druid who saw that the boss was close to the patrols, and decided to just run in and aggro the patrol anyway. So while it is the tank's fault, It's also the braindead druid's fault. (not to mention that the same druid later pulled the 2nd extra group too, while they were running out)
1:18:10 I played OW2 in an esports setting (as captain) a couple years back, and although WoW and OW2 are vastly different games, the principle of resource allocation still applies to both. If you make a call, then people are going to spend valuable resources to bring about the desired result (in this case, running); doubling back on a call after people have already dedicated significant resources to its completion will leave you extremely vulnerable and worse off than where you started.
@@xinel4576 lmao the dude took a video of him biting his own arm while in a stressful situation, I think its fair to wonder why. Also, you clearly cared enough to come down here and defend him so how about you stop it lil guy.
Ah yamato. He's a notorious flamer in league. Loves pushing his mistakes onto other people and calls them "productive criticism" and so on and so forth. He was in a streamer team like a year or two ago that had the same issue with him, always blaming others when he did stupid shit.
Yoyo. Can you link me those vids. I wanna see what they say. Asmon broke down he had already used up his mana to escape when the call was made so i wanna know what the arguments were to say that its pirate's fault. Are they just blaming that or are they just arguing about him being annoyed with Yamato being a whiny bitch, which is my point. If they got other points I would appreciate being able to watch them break it down. @@DinantZ
@@sangminyi93 Links don't work. Check out lsf, its a cook fest, from there choose one of the vets, lets say soda(who is the guild leader*) and click to see the full stream for a fuller take if you think its out of context.
@@sangminyi93nearly every one I've seen outside of grubby and asmon has been clipchimped to hell and back. literally just clips and timestamps instead of watching and breaking down all perspectives and issues
@@DinantZ scroll up and look at the well structured paragraphs about how the rogue didn't gouge, kidney shot, etc... any of the trash. They skipped a pack and payed the price, they were at the start of the dungeon anyways. It would have wasted maybe 30 seconds if they just all bailed and walked out of the instance to drop aggro. Yammato is also notorious for pulling shit like this, plays backseat driver constantly and talks massive shit while masking it as "productive criticism". PirateSoftware played poorly, but he did as he was told. Better players wouldn't of fucked this pull in the first place. Just a case of being bad players, which isn't an issue if you reflect and be better.
When you make Tyler look like the calm non-toxic guy you know you have some serious issues ( Not hating on Tyler LOL brings the worst out in people its the number 1 reason why people quit)
I know exactly what you mean. Tyler sitting there calmly analysing both parties take and getting to the crux of it is not something I expected from him as GM. Was waiting for him to start screaming and rant hahaha.
I recommend you check out who this kid yamatosdeath is. He was like this playing League of Legends - everyone else is at fault, everyone else mess up but him. Talking about accountability is crazy from this kid. I am surprise Thor plays with him to start with
the pull was terrible, the run call was correct, the indecision and lack of communication to salvage after the run call caused the wipe. why take that risk in HC.
@@t0nje yah you’re not wrong, idk. This is a group of players that are all streamers and ALL have massive ego’s. this entire fkn thing is the pot calling the kettle black lol. I Don’t blame Thor for his attitude. He openly admitted he fucked up but wouldn’t accept equal responsibility, which is fair, I wouldn’t either. The guy throwing shade at Thor was acting like a fkn child, calling for = responsibility while not being responsible for his absolute spoilt brat only child bullshit attitude. I’d nope out of that shit the same way Thor did, Anyone would dig their heels in, the best part is: Thor is probably one of if not the most successful streamers in only fangs and it really just looks like tall poppy syndrome.
@@t0njebut the boss isn’t slowed so even if you slow the mobs the boss is just front and center in your face. The boss is the issue and CC on the mobs doesn’t change this equation because it doesn’t solve for all the damage the boss will do. Even if you try you slow mobs the boss comes you plink damage and then the mobs come forward you’re still screwed
what i don't get is why, after calling run run run, then seeing and acknowledging the mage is not there... why stay? at that point, commit to the run out
Running away usually involves cc'ing and kiting, especially in hardcore. I have no clue who any of the streamers are, but this is my neutral opinion as a wow player and after watching the clips.
Well because if the mana-less mage turned around and nova'd a few mobs and a cc immune boss then they'd all survive of course. Its the mana-less mage's fault not the people who turned around to fight an unwinnable fight for no reason when they absolutely could and would have got out if they ran as called.
@@jamieclarke2694 he had mana gem and robe, he had mana for nova and a couple of blizzards. That means its just the boss thats hitting the tank. They can easily either clear or run out with 0% risk this way.
@kklap3219 Yeah but they didn't run out. They stayed for no reason. The only reason he could have saved them is because they decided to not save themselves. Screw that lol
If he did rank1 blizzard or a nova the chances of more people surviving was higher. But, why didnt the rogue keep attacking the dogs he was basically following the warrior out watching him die, he has gouge, blind, vanish, put on crippling poison. Is it only the mage fault? Hell no, everyone in that group was pepega and just wants someone to blame. there is alot of spots where they were where they could have kited the mobs until forever, just like hunters doing DMT solo can do they didnt. All of them just have bad game knowledge.
Thats why he is going for “accountability” bullsht because hes the one who could’ve better lol, he just trying to deflect to thor classic league player behavior it’s everyone’s fault but never theirs
agreed, everyone calling out the mage but the rogue could've killed those low hp dogs easily with AR/bladeflurry and even had evasion. With the dogs downed the tank wouldn't have been dazed (why is he being dazed). Rogue could have even blinded a non-boss ogre or another dog agroed on the priest. And crippling poison slowed something. Instead he just acted as a NPC and bit his own arm
@@skolex3121 man is really asking for accountability when literally all of his cds are available until the end? doesn't take an experienced player to know he should sit this one out
I actually think the rogue was just as at fault for the deaths as the druid and tank because he was the one making calls then contradicting his own calls thus creating more panic and confusion. The only one making the fully correct choice was Thor as he ran when told to, cast blizzard when he had the chance to, gave up on that when realizing it wouldn't work on the real threat, was running without pulling extras, and communicated why he can't do more. If he had of come back he would have actually caused more issues potentially and most likely have died while really having little that could do anything. The right choice was run as they were not going to salvage that situation at those mana levels. They should have stuck to the run call and not doubled back since it was called. The better choice was to know the pull was in a bad location and that it was done in a bad timing without the two needing mana most being prepared for it. Them talking about random things when you aren't expecting a pull is normal, if you look as soon as the pull started he stopped talking when it got serious so that did not contribute at all. Again a pull like that was unexpected and thus there was no reason to expect to need to drink yet. Hindsight on the need to drink is of course obvious but logically putting yourself in the moment it would have not been a time to drink yet, the time would be after that pull when you are going for boss. Tank, feral dps, and shot caller were the issue it was not a Thor issue. That said why is a rogue of all people doing the shot calling and not understanding the mechanics? Literally saw the healer getting attacked for doing the healing he was told to do and didn't try to kill the mob on him or cc the mob on him even when the rogue had vanish up. He should have been more aware of who he can cc and who he can kick as well. It preferably should have been the tank or healer doing calls as they are more aware of group needs and positions typically. The tank has to take some responsibility as well because any good tank knows you should avoid pulling on ramps or near ledges as they are notorious for pulling extra mobs on different levels and should know to avoid giving up your back, he should have been strafing with that group even backpedaling would have been better during slows. This simple movement tip is something I see a majority of the only Fangs Tanks missing. The druid mistakes were covered in this video. The only thing not covered is if he had of ran as originally told to and gotten further away he could have been doing more healing and the healer and tank would have also been fine.
I think people forget how aggro worked back in vanilla. Now a days if you’re tank you pretty much are guaranteed aggro, but back in the day threat was a real problem if the tank isn’t constantly hitting mobs or the boss.
@@dwaynev6593 Thor couldn't do it because he sucks at the game. Simple as that. Barely any keybinds, "forgot" he had mana gem, robe, pot and access to rank 1 CC spells that are almost free at lvl 60. The mess-up wasn't his fault but being this bad and spineless for not even helping them with anything is all on him.
@@0rcd0c why help if it wouldnt change the outcome other than add him to the death list? He was given directions to run multiple times. He did what a good group mate would do and follow commands. Not his fault. Did you watch the video? This was explained like 50 times.
@@0rcd0c with this same argument why don't you blame the rogue? he could've blinded a non-boss/elite mob, blade flurry with his AR up and kill the dogs to remove the bleeds or slows and even evasion tanked if they swung at him and could have used feint to drop aggro and sprint away. No mana cost, had his HP potion available and vanish too. Could've gouged 1 mob too and vanish stunned another. But instead he made the "run run run" call, stood around doing nothing staring at everyone else running, jumped around a bit then walked out the dungeon. You're only seeing the best possible outcomes for the mage, if the mage stayed the boss could have done a charge knockback during a blizzard cast, or in melee range died to a melee swing after casting frost nova. A call was made to GTFO, and he GTFO-ed. If it was a paladin and he bubble hearthed it would've been the same (with no other escapes if a run call was made that's his only option too). Im not saying he isn't shit, he is. But he was under no obligation to do anything other than GTFO but he still turned around 3 times. Your argument that the mage could have done more is done in hindsight watching a video without panic being able to analyse everything. Why did the warrior tank get dazed while running away when he had defensive stance? Why was the druid jumping around? Why did the druid agro 2 extra packs and the boss by running behind the mobs?
@@duckimpact Oh, the rogue was definitely poop, too and most of them did an abudance of mistakes but here are some of the main differences: - it's harder to execute CC on the rogue in this situation than on a mage - the rogue is new to the game, pirate is a veteran - all the reamining 4 people tried to help each other with whatever they had even though some of the things were arguably dumb - the only person who could have contributed the most with minimal risk and supposedly one of the more experienced player did nothing and ran away like a chicken. And instead of admitting it, he starts to gas light - it's not even an argument of "doing more in hindsight" he has done nothing at all to begin. If you think that he has no obligation for a guild group then stop complaining when he's being called out for roaching
1 - The group decided to skip packs, which would of taken them 3 mins to clear. 2 - THE GROUP DECIDED TO SKIP PACKS, WHICH WOULD OF TAKEN THEM 3 MINS TO CLEAR! 3 - Ozy was tanking. 4 - The pull was dogshit, and since they didn't clear, so they put themselves under more pressure then needed. 5 - THEY called "RUN RUN RUN", if they stuck with this, they would of made it out alive, but instead half way through, they decided "Maybe we can do this", then the druid pulls another pack. I personally think they all fuked up. (The priest did nothing wrong, apart from trying to Save Ozy and the Druid)
"run" in hardcore doesnt mean everyman for himself because that means that healer and probably tank will die. Run means go out together and mage abandoned the only job a mage has in a dungeon.
@@t0nje I'm not defending Pirate, i'm "trying" to explain the situation, as a mage of 10+ years, Pirate played like shit, and could of done better. In the end, mistakes were made everywhere, they all fuked up (except the Priest, which sadly died trying to save ppl)
@ No, they would not all live in this scenario without mage doing a mage should do. Best case either tank or priest will die, priest will either overaggro from healing tank while running, or tank dies from tanking without heals.
@@Duneboy13 he had a mana gem and a mana restore ability on his robe. even without that, he could have used rank 1 spells with the mana he had. no one besides asmonroach defending the mage on this.
The guy : - Called to run (if it's salvageable you don't call to run) this sealed the fate of the warrior obviously - Did pretty much nothing for the entire escape - Then gives an opposite call to save the warrior sealing the fate of whoever stayed and couldn't escape (unlike him) - Then started yapping at the one mage who did follow the call to run (mage who would be stupid to go back in melee range to nova a pack with an immun boss (nova don't last forever)) Truth is this yamato guy is a toxic child who can't handle the guilt of Sara and Snuppy (who also messed up) death, so he is trying to put the guilt on someone else shoulders. I don't understand how people are still supporting super toxic and manipulative guy like that... world is fucked
@@narodekk Rogue had just about every cd up as well, -gouge one -blind another -tank a couple with your evasion even start kiting with sprint -health pot? -vanish to reset threat, and run interference. like damn he coulda instantly put crippling on hes weps and slowed them yea? pretty sure theirs some cool plays he could of done with a vanish distract that might of stopped one of the extra pat pulls even?
Nah, he explains it at 47:00. The whole point was explaining that "the goal of Blizzard [Entertainment] is to make you slow [in the head]". Try to keep up.
guy can copy then reword most popular comment, CONGRATS. Imagine calling people out for being nerds, when youre so desperate for likes you steal comments and slightly reword them lol
@@AnonCommenter-k5m Calm down nerd, people dont all get to see the same comments. They are personalized. Sometimes I scroll down only to see a comment with 2k likes on some videos, meaning it definitly was seen by more people but not on top for me. Same with this comment, i replied to it because it was the 5-6th comment in my comment list… i didnt see anyone else comment this. So a lot of the time people just have the same thoughts. Or the bots just have gotten better :)
Yup, that's how I always felt playing artillery in hell let loose, watching people run into the area I have been shelling for the last 5 minutes knowing that I still have 4 rounds in the air and it takes roughly 30 seconds for them to land, then listening them blame me for the teamkills, and having some random machine gunner unironically tell me that they aren't teamkilling people so I shouldn't be either.
Just came from tyler video. Yamato apologized to both Snupy and the healer. Minimum 5 times for asking to heal tank and them dying. He is fine with Pirate running and playing bad because everyone makes mistakes but Pirate being so dismissive and not taking any accountability is where he and many people are pissed off with. Watch Soda, Savix or Xaryu even Grubby's take. Anyone who is playing the game says same thing. Just say my bad dude, and everyone will leave him alone.
@@spikegamer5143 It wasn't Pirates fault that they died. They want to blame him because he was the furthest from the shit storm that they started and the first to get out. In the end it didn't really matter because the run call was made.
@@itsoverloaded6928 and the call to come back was made, he 1000% could have saved them if he was a competant mage, but the issuse is the asshole ego after losing members and just leaving from calls/issues.
@@itsoverloaded6928yeah it was his fault that they died. He should have done absolutely anything to help. He had so many chances but just didn’t care about helping, then doubles down and blames his team. Act like that in real life and see how many friends you have.
@@sparv1067 No, it was the fault of whoever pulled that they died. Stop trying to pass the blame on someone who could have helped rather than blaming why they needed help in the first place.
I get that Snupy messed up. But to defend him, he did go to Pirate admitting his mistake, apologize, and tell him that he didn't want this to get blown to the proportion it was. He doesn't blame Pirate like Yamamoto does.
Snupy did a great explaination in a Pikaboo video. He tells where everyone made mistakes except the priest. No one is solely to blame but Pirate running out looks really bad when he still had a lot of tools available.
@@minguk It looks really bad is the entire thing. Like people who don't play the game or can't judge it think he roached out and burned mana on purpose. Like there is nothing he could have realistically done that would have impacted the fight and risking his character is an even dumber play from a hardcore perspective. My conclusion was Pirate is an average player, and onlyfangs doesn't actually care about hardcore, because they would prefer drama and content over actual objectives. Like I wonder if Tinyviolin will reappear and wipe raids again because it's just content and they can keep the money wagon going.
@@EarthiumLiterallt every pro WoW streamer says he could have saved the situation. However they don't expect him to play like Xar, amphy or Ziqo. It's the attitude that he did nothing wrong or could have done nothing better that annoys people. When clearly a better player would have saved him. No one cares if you panic and just own up to it.
@@mingukthats contradictory. No one expects him to play like the top players so ofc he would say there was nothing he could've done better because as you said hes not a top player but then you get mad? wtf.
Ozy did a terrible pull and should of paid the price for it. Instead 2 people died to save him and the other 2 are being blamed for not playing perfectly and utilising their kit to max efficiency in a panic situation. Yes, Pirate and the Yamato could have both utilised they're class and abilities way better, but I know me personally and many others would 100% roach out. Fuck losing 300+ hours because your stupid tank does a stupid pull. He can die for his mistake.
Difference being, one claims to be a classic god gamer, the other is new to wow. Hardcore shows peoples true colours. Yamato would go down with his team, TRYING to save them. Thats the difference.
There's a balance of when to roach, or you can just always roach at first instance and that just doesn't seem the most helpful if you're in a group with guildies for a goal. In this specific situation, there was no need to roach, except for the reason being they were not skilled enough to figure out what to do. So should Pirate have done more? Yes, but can he cause of his knowledge of the game and abilities? I suspect no, he doesnt, and thats why he ran. I think the hang up here is that, he's not admitting to it at the beginning and I think thats what some of them want, is for the accountability. He doesn't need to do that either, thats his choice and others being upset is ok too. Everyone else just needs to take this info in and make that decision do you want to enter a dungeon with a first to roach or last to roach mentality.
@@bonse1 sorry but 'going down with the team' is for when I play with my best friends, not with a bunch of random n00bs. If they knew Thor was more experienced, they should consult him about the pull. Seeing this I honestly wonder how the rest of the party even got to lvl 60 on hardcore.
Theres a clip from the druids pov and the 2nd pack actually gets asspulled by him going behind the pack and jumping around while the rogue stayed further away, the whole situation was literally caused by the druids incompetence
what are you even yapping about, he did what he should have, the problem lies in the tank tanking in the wrong place, then the druid standing in the wrong spot and asspulling the mobs, its literally the classic wow accidental ninjapull
@@chukicana1836 "he did what he should have" True, he should've lied about having no mana, he should've kept silent when the initial boss pull was manageable and killable with his decades of WoW experience, he should've answered with snark and contempt, smiled, and hovered over his mana gem when stating he has no mana, he should've casted frost barrier for no reason to seem like he has even less mana, he should've ignored casting cone of cold or nova, he should've continued on the second dungeon try after near death on the first try. And that's exactly what he did. He did what he *thought* he should have. Like a narcissist.
@@SubzeroRUclips Lol on you for thinking they couldn't have killed the boss. You know they kill the dogs and low hp brute in like 4 seconds, poly the remaining brute, and the kil the lone boss right? And in case if they decide to run they still all 100% live because boss doesn't do enough ALONE. Lmao, even
@@Billionsmustchill Then the call should not have been made by the group's lead to "Run." The fact that leadership made the call and the DPS followed it to the letter is not the fault of the DPS. You call "Run" and it's done until there's a reset. End of story.
@@Tartersauce101 rogue had vanish and sprint up. he could fight and get down 1 or 2 more dogs while running out without getting any agro from the boss but reducing the dmg input a lot, if he would get aggro he could have vanished and also still had his sprint, the rogue roached the most in my opinion. Just kill 1, 2 dogs and vanish.
Basically its: Sargent: I'm calling FUBAR, go for extraction! Sargent: Are you fine?! Keep up Private B! Sargent: Hey corporal stop running ahead and do something! We lost Private Sara Corporal: Sarge you called for FUBAR! Sargent: Yeah but you shouldn't listen to me! Then back at base, Sargent is saying the Corporal is wrong for following protocol when he called FUBAR because he should have waved his empty ammo rifle to attract attention so Private Sara didn't die instead of heading for extraction
Someone says "runrunrurunrunrunrun" and then another person in the group also says run. You now have HALF the group calling run, and the other 2 start running. The whole team was in accord with RUN. Then you get some ppl questioning whether its salvageable, but the mage says OOM. To re-engage is an uphill battle that shouldn't have even been attempted.
All of their points are moot because that was an unsurvivable fight with everyone having full mana and health at the start. When you pull that boss you sneak around him and pull those mobs first for that reason. The only time when you weren't super careful with that boss pull was when you were already in raid gear and have it on farm, and even then you pull that group with the boss, someone is going to die. That is just how it has always been since day 1 of DM release. The tank was a fucking idiot. and made a bad pull and he made that stupid pull when people didn't have resources and health. If you wanted to place blame, it was the tank.
To give credits, the tank admitted it's his fault. It's the rogue that instigated the hate raids towards Pirate, even though he also have his share of fault.
@@RisqueBisquetz yeah the rogue also made the bad calls to change from running back to fighting and then instigated the drama blaming it on Pirate which was just insane. Pirate and Sara are the victims here.
@@RisqueBisquetz Good on the tank, though IIRC this was the same tank that Pirate has had to call out a few times before in this OnlyFangs Hardcore. It's frankly pure luck and other people picking up the slack that has seemingly kept him alive. That said, that's still better than the Rogue, who made bad calls and expected Pirate to risk his own character and all the other shit mentioned on a run that would've wiped ALL of them if he'd stayed. Like Asmon said, if RUN is called, you don't second-guess, because at least one person isn't gonna listen to the second-guessing, and you aren't gonna survive an already scuffed boss pull when down a player.
@@Joyappwouldnt call pirate a victim he wasted his mana the entire run and even after he was safe he continued blinking/shielding to waste the rest of his mana to appear low mana at the end
@@mufasafalldown8401 his "victimhood" is all this drama going his way because of the druid and warrior's terrible positioning and all of this could have been a nothing biscuit. He could have done more but he followed the run call. I am more annoyed at the rogue being a cameraman and doing literally nothing the entire time the group was running but filming.
Everyone except the healer screwed up but it's especially Snuppy's fault cause he's the one who pulled both groups of adds and the boss in the first place. Either way, the rogue has no business being pissed when he also could have done so much more to help.
mage didn't screw up. healer screwed up by running back and died as a result. he saved the tank, but in hc would you rather save someone and have to level again, or live?
@@Riznichard Saving the tank was not a screw up, it was a choice. It's like saying choosing pizza over chicken nugs is a screw up, just a decision that was made. And yes pirate did screw up, was it the cause of everything? No, but he could have done far more.
@@YourNemesis23 Rogue kills the Mastiffs from the start instead of biting his arm and looking around for 30 seconds before doing anything, everyone lives as well. He had Vanish and sprint, he was in no danger whatsoever. Druid doesn't pull the adds in the first place everyone lives. Tank doesn't pull while the mage is at nearly half mana and then actually brings the mobs back instead of fighting them on the slope near the adds and the patrolling boss everyone lives. Once again, they all screwed up. They have no right to be mad at the mage only.
Every problem from this situation is addressed in the book, Extreme Ownership, and the Jocko Podcast. There are no bad teams, only bad leaders. And even in Navy Seal teams, if someone makes a call, even a junior member, then the team has to act on that call. These are basic leadership fundamentals.
Stop, you're just repeating what Asmon is saying and he's plain wrong. "Run" means stay with your group and go together, it doesn't mean every man for himself. He could've easily prevented those deaths had he moved with the group and used his CC's, but he didn't.
@Shuubox isn't the boss cc immune tho? So I don't think it would change much if he gets close to the pack and nova and the boss isn't affected to since now he's screwed to
Yes! Also I hate this of "group communist thinking" shit of "It's everybody's fault, noone is at fault, we are a group and work together" such a dumb kindergarden shild thinking.
@@lordmakino9514 In the rogue's POV you can see that they managed to CC the boss as they are running, but at this point Pirate was already gone. All they needed was a nova on the rest of the mobs and they would've made it. The boss does little dmg, like 90-110 a hit, it was the trash mobs that got them.
@Shuubox yea but some cc immune popped up plus he calls run I'm sorry but if your given a order if your not gonna follow it I'd rather dump you on another team so in a way it was a smart decision to follow orders
I'm going to end this argument, the mage-lord that they didn't kill casted bloodlust on the brute when it got agro'd so killing the mastiff was going to do nothing.
ive never played WOW but from what i can understand the boss fight went south, everyone made mistakes, they blame thor for what i assume is them wanting someone to else to take the fall, thor wasn't having that shit, and now they're mad that he stood his ground. is that right or am i dumb?
they wanted thor to run in and cast a spell that freezes all the mobs, aka all the units except the boss. On thors perspective, he'd have to run through the boss to cast nova, which would increase his aggro and since he's dps if he gets touched by the boss twice he's dead, the problem is yamato's dumbass said run instead of kite and got mad when he ran. Everyone could've played better, they all played like low level players which happens.
If you played wow youd know pirate Is in the wrong 100 percent. He Is a frost mage that can slow down or directly lock in place every mob except bosses. Not having mana isnt a excuse because he can cast a cast a rank 1 spell that Is basically free, not even 50 mana, that slows exactly the same as a Max rank, just less damage. Almost every other player in his shoes could have done it. He just missplayed really badly and refused to accept it. Deserved gkick tbh
@ brother this is less about him casting or the mana and more about the fact that he was told to run, ran, then was asked why he's running after he'd already cast blizzard and blinked. Now he'd have to go past the boss, cast FN which does up his aggro, and he doesnt have blink up either, by the time he gets to the group after he'd blinked the first time the shitshows already over and the healers already dead. nova is basically a melee ranged spell, he could've cast blizzard but that wouldn't have changed anything, boss was still slowing the group and blizzard doesnt slow their movement speed enough for it to matter when they're already dazing you, you need hard cc to be cast which would be impossible due to distance and risk. You're just bad at the game, happens.
@@LucasRulesX3 Lmao such a salty take. He peeled with blizzard and listened to the run call but druid rogue and warrior stuck around instead of listening to the call then act surprised when he wasn't with the group.
If we want to talk about hypothetical outcomes. A true dungeon lord rogue would have vanished, sprinted and distracted that boss to save the group. Either way what anyone says, the tank here should have been the shot caller and directed CC uses in the chaos. Either way, playing hardcore you sign up to die in stupid situations no matter the level. Get over it
everyone talking about hypothetical forgets that a true god rogue could've saved this better than the mage could have with blade flurry/AR on the dogs, blind on non-boss mob, gouge and vanish stunned while sprinting to delay enemies so the priest wouldn't die. Hell if speaking of hypotheticals they could've dropped a second target dummy and ran.
@@duckimpactyes and the point is that everyone admitted the could have played better like that except the mage. The mage is the only one who refused to admit he could have done more. And the mage is the only one who did basically nothing to help. Didn't even try. Intentionally wasted all his mana so he could just stand there saying "do you see my mana bro". He's the only one making excuses while everyone else is being self critical.
@@stillnotchill2560but he says they all could have played better in the vid. He just isn’t taking responsibility because it’s all on the tank, the Druid and rogue. The tank couldn’t hold aggro, so it was scattered. If the mage cast, then it could be any one of them that would take aggro and die. So it would have been even worse. The packs were spread out as well. Then another pack was pulled by the Druid. So 3 packs plus a boss all spread out and aggro scattered and you want a clothy mage to cast a direct the aggro randomly in hardcore HC?
The only two who is said consistently to have NOT fucked up, is Sara and Thor. Could they have done better? Absolutely and even Thor says this, however the others actively fucked up. Why should the ones who did decently have to play better to make up for everyone else's fuck ups? You don't apologise for not playing perfectly. You apologise for playing badly. Why should the two who didn't fuck up, apologise? That's stupid.
It's Yamato. I'd never take him complaining about someone else's gameplay seriously. hes always complaining and blaming other people for everything. Idk how RatIRL likes the guy tbh
If he assumed a leadership position in the raid then the buck stops with him, end of story. If you want to be a leader that means everything is your responsibility. Now a player can seriously fuck up or not follow instructions, then it's on them, but he clearly said "run run run" and did not clearly countermand that order. I run crews IRL, if you want to be a leader that means you want to take responsibility. You don't get it both ways.
@@vyvianalcott1681 Yamato was never the leader. he legit has the least hours on the game xd. the tank was the leader. In what world does the mage solo run out and leave his entire party behind? he is the entire teams peeler. He did this twice btw same way except the first one he pulled then ran as fast as possible and ditched the group. ofc they all played badly which they owned up to besides pirate who ran as fast as possible to save himself.
@armin7321 My mistake, going over it with my friends last night I realized the tank was the leader. Which is even worse, because after he called run he changed his mind and did not make that clear. Then the druid carelessly jumped down the ramp and pulled an extra group of mobs, since that group had no tank aggro and the healer was healing the healer pulled aggro. The druid and the tank are 100% responsible for those deaths, y'all are trying to blame the mage because you're salty little children who don't know how to take responsibility for your mistakes. Ironic that you're all upset at Thor for not admitting the tiniest mistake of putting too much distance after he blizzarded, as if that would have made any difference to the sheer incompetence of that group.
This is the kind of Drama I like because I know, at the end of the day, this shit doesn't matter at all.
Low stakes cozy drama
You just defined ALL Twitch drama
@@buddybrax at least nobody is getting sued for this. This is just a bunch of butthurt individuals that take games too seriously.
a welcome relief from reality? i hear you brother
Drama to get views and engagement
It's just another case of everyone being overconfident, going through the motions, doing routine moves via muscle memory, then an unexpected element came into play, they all panicked and the lack of clear leadership meant they had no idea what to do and as soon as someone said "run" it was everyone for himself and the blame game started.
Did I save one hour and a half of my time?
yup basically sums it up LOL
Yes.
yes thank you 😅
thanks bro
@@Bishox Everyone tried to salvage it? Oh really? What did the rogue do, besides blinding mob immune to blind after 2 people already were dead?
Again. If you're to assign blame of who fucked up here or not - mage would be like no.4 or at most 3. So yeah, it's absolutely unfair they make all this shit about him. He is not the one who did this clown ass pull with 5 mistakes on the way.
Tyler1 being the mediator is the most surreal thing I've seen in a while.
Yeah that was a welcomed surprise lol
How? He's a nice guy obviously. He puts on an "alpha bro" personality for entertainment.
yamato was already know as toxic in league community. i do think hes funny but he acts like a child alot. he has always had a huge ego while underperforming
@@stillnotchill2560 Lots of people like myself probably only know him from the clips and don't watch him to realize that.
Not only mediating, but being a voice of reason. Explaining how yama was being way too aggro, and (fairly calmly) explaining that you can't treat other people that way and expect them to accept your point of view. It was like we stepped into bizarro world for a bit.
i find that people that claim "your interupting me" or "you wont let me speak" are doing the exact same thing 90% of the time.
EXACTLY. I can't stand that, it's infuriating for me lol
The world is full of hypocrites.
I find that people who say your interrupting me are soft AF like speak if u wanna speak soft ass
Savix’s tweet has Pirate talking for 90% of the conversation and when it’s Yamato’s time to talk, Pirate leaves… again.
And 10% of the time they're are right. Like here
There is a saying in Serbia that we use "After the battle, everybody is a General"
A Heroe not general😘
Same saying in Czechia
Sounds like another version of "hindsight is 20/20"
Hindsight is 20/20
Zar nije vise kao: " It's easy to be a general after battle."
As someone who had never played wow, this is hilarious from an outside perspective
Aggred🥂
I've been thinking about playing wow but when I see videos like this and I like "nah this is not for me" I'll just stick to watching people having mental meltdowns over a VIDEO GAME.
Hilarious and pathetic 😂
@@TheHermitSage001 you should give a shot, classic is fun. I wouldn't do HC to start tho, you'll die before yo uget to to lvl 10 a bunch if you don't know the game at all. Most people who play don't take it this serious. Just go to a PVE Normal server and you'll get tons of dad gamers who are just there to chill and play.
Same.
For people who wants the TLDR: @42:10, @1:01 and 1:29 Asmon says it all.
milking a 30 sec clip for 1h and 33 minutes is pure asmongold genius.
Number 10 on trending for video games 😂
It took him 47 minutes to find the context. He watched from the rogue pov sure but its not til you see pirate's POV that you realize how bad he screwed them over.
@@YouCanCallMeReTro wtf are you talking about?The staretda boss fight with him onyl having like 60% mana. "run" was called multiple times, he threw them a blizzard and then ran. The tank pulled an additinal mob pack and a boss, the druid pulled yet another mob pack, etc. If there is a call to run you run, you dont argue or do something else, thats not how shot calling works.
1. pulling to much: tank and druid
2. not havign aggro of everything: tank
3. rogue did really do anything helpful just screaming around
4. Thor ran when it was called, didnt have any mana or skillsto come back and do anything really. going back to help would only have endangered him more.
Only redeeming one would be the healer which sadly died to save the tanks life.
@ Yeah I don't care what his group members did, you could have saved yourself some time. He heard the word run and his bot programming kicked in, spammed shields and blinks didnt even look back which takes a millisecond to do. If he looked back he woulda seen nobody was behind him and he was safe. Instead he keeps wasting mana, complaining about having no mana with a mana gem and a pot sitting in his bags. He failed his team. As a mage player I could list a gazillion ways that not only was his play trash, but also extremely selfish.
Almost a million veiws the man is a legend
90% of the time what gets you killed in HC WoW is whats inbetween your chair and your desk,,, he didnt really do anything worth being asked to apologize for and immediately got gkicked, but if somebody really felt some type of way they shouldve called for mak'gora and moved tf on. jumping straight to gkick for not apologizing for someone elses bad call is pretty cringe
It's not even that he's being asked to apologize, people just want him to acknowledge that he played horrible in that situation and easily could've saved the group. This whole "drama" is so ridiculously overblown tho fr fr
@@Winckypoo he could not have saved the group lmao. Someone was dead for sure because the boss couldn't be slowed. He could spam all day and that wouldn't have changed. The only reason the priest died is the boneheaded call by the rogue.
Also, acting like someone is supposed to play perfectly to correct a mistake they didn't make and then acting like its their fault for not "saving" the group is insane.
@@NateO123 the boss isn't the problem, it's the adds. Tank will kite the boss back while the mage slows the adds. If Pirate was even half as good as he claims he could solo kite all the adds while the rest of the group did the boss.
@NateO123 There is a 100% chance that Chad healer, who died trying to save the tank, would have kept him up through only the bosses dps. 100%. 0 doubt. You have no idea what you're talking about.
There is a 0% chance you're pulling agro off the healer with rank 1 blizzard. There is a 0% chance the slow from a blizzard, that is specced for additional slow, doesn't make a difference in a 2 minute chase. There is a 0% chance of dieing because you'll never pull agro AND you have ice block -> nova -> blink -> cold snap and 2000+ extra mana from items...
You just couldn't possibly understand less about this situation. I think I could teach a tech savy 8 year old how to save this party in about 15 minutes.
@@NateO123 pressing 2 buttons isn't considered perfect play. Anything is better than what he did ( nothing )
The fact this has caused more drama in hardcore than tiny violin wiping their guild in naxx on 4 horseman is so damn funny
Because it's not about the characters in-game, but the characters outside of the game
Ooh your feelings got hurt by someone on the Internet.
Because it gave the internet a reason to shit on PirateSoft outside of “I just don’t like the way he talks.” Dude finally showed a chink in his armor and Reddit is going nuts over it.
exactly it's so stupid to see grown man act like toddlers 😂
People get upset about the dumbest shit when it comes to WoW. Community is just so toxic lol.
I mean we all can agree that this is at least 80% Miz fault
and graycen
lmao
😂
80% Miz 20% Graycen
80% ? More like 99.999999%
Getting into WoW content cause of Tyler and then finding out he's actually the sane one is funny AF to me.
That's WoW (and most of MMORPGs), you are welcome xD
Underrated comment
Who
Yeah thats freaking hilarious
I only knew Tyler as the "guy who screams and is weird and shows his muscles" but now among these WoW-people he seems level headed
Its different pressure to play league which is pvp, than playing pve mmo. There is no actual real stakes in wow, there is no wow championship, there is no wow enemy lane. The only anger factor for a wow player is time wasted. But he streams anyway 24/7 so its not like he is in a rush to finish anything. So it makes him much more relaxed.
Im almost sure he even got shocked by people getting so angry about this.
100% hardest line in this "You made the right call the first time, when you second guessed yourself you got people killed." That is 100% what happened. Tough calls are tough calls but stick to the first one. People are using resources due to your call, and cannot afford for you to change your mind. Biggest rules: 1. Do not get greedy, you WILL die. 2. Stick to your first judgment, the second one WILL kill you. 3. Always pick the left path when exploring, the right one is not the right one.
Wrong, just dont invite crap mages into your groups, is a literal hero class 😂
Terrible take.
If everyone roaches here, tank is 100% dead.
The dogs slow, the tank cannot disengage without assistance.
Mage casts no spells.
If he stays with the group and helps them peel, everyone 100% lives here.
Just like Asmon, you have no idea what you are talking about.
@@caveydavey ahh yes, people make horrendous errors and then expect someone else to play 100% perfect to save them lmao. Run was called, and then the idiots decided to "salvage" and got the priest killed. Blaming Thor for this is absurd.
That’s not what happened
@caveydavey if everyone listened to the first run no one would've died because that other pack wouldn't have been pulled from that druid and they had distance to scramble
Tyler is probably the best person ive seen with character development. The dude went from a tier 1 rager to being a composed intelligent man. dudes insane at chess, too.
having a kid does that to you. no matter how crazy the outside world is, your kid is going to drive you even more insane.
@@HungPham-qq6me yup ive got 2 lol
Tyler has a kid? I'm outside the loop so clearly I have 0 idea about dude
spent enough time in the hate forges to come out pristine
T1 is a persona if you guys didn't notice. He has broken character so many times when he found something really funny.
I’m glad Asmon is covering important things again instead of the 100th useless politics video for the day
Things are about to get worse for you this year 😂
@ you’re probably unfortunately right lmao
Look, the sooner they stop putting it in videogames, the sooner you never have to hear about it again
@@Bebop1811 it's not about the videogames lol
yeh i'd like to say that's gonna pass once the new president starts sitting but of course that claim would make me a total loony
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. At the end of the day, baldy wins by farming them for ez money.
@@glatzigoblinmaybe but he can buy your mom for himself with your house and she’ll delete you from genealogical tree, so maybe money may do smth for him
@@glatzigoblin what a disgusting thing to say
@@glatzigoblin
Someones jealous, you sure take jokes far too personal
I'll be the random fellow Hololive fan here. Nice name.
@@glatzigoblin That's one way to let everyone know you're unloved
interestingly, if you nova mobs they will attack anything within range. So novaing could mean all the aggro goes on to whoever is still within a mobs melee-range, which could have instantly killed somebody. Though Yamato initially was the one calling out Asmon for not being able to read, it's weird to call him out for not having perfect english, as he is German and english is probably his second or third language.
TL;DR - Tank fucked up the pull, feral dps ass-pulled twice, healer died valiantly and the argument has somehow inexplicably come down to a mage and rogue who both ran away while being barely involved in the problem.
still worth the 90 minute watch time
As a former resto shaman. This is normal.
Pirate only got focus because he said he could do nothing better. If he didnt say that there would be no drama & everyone would say tank pulled bad
Healer died for their sins.
Honestly maybe the mage could’ve done something but once the Druid pulled the other pack it was a wrap
I swear the group is the girl in horror movies that trip while running from the killer
Im fucking CRYING lmao.
Every fuckin time, they trip 😂😂😂
and Thor is the black dude who just goes Hell Nah and books it as soon as something gets spooky
And thor is the guy that said "aight im out" instead of looking back and tripping.
and instead of immediately trying to get back up they just crawl
Chatters are so serious you’d think someone actually died irl.
methinks you doth take the situation a tad too lightly
@@justanobody0 it's a WoW beef dawg, losing a hardcore character to bad coordination sucks but this entire drama doesn't matter
@@kaizerkaeden9473 people make their livelihood through streaming, and I heard one person said it took 240 hours to get to lvl 56
@@kaizerkaeden9473 That may be true But the amount of content they get for having wow beef and wow drama raises views for all content creators included in said drama
@@justanobody0 I understand (I think) you're talking about the drama itself, not the game. But... Come on, it's a bunch of guys having an emotional outburst over a game, it doesn't matter either way, they can change their minds after the dust settles
If the rogue wants to point out the mage doing nothing, he (the rogue) could have pulled aggro on all of the things, sprinted in the other direction and vanished it all off and created space.
One problem is hyenas in Dire Maul can detect stealth, so while I believe it is possible, I think the rogue would need to gain enough distance or LOS on the hyenas? I'm not certain as it's been a long time for me, but the hyenas at least make it a little trixy.
@@chriswahl1337 Perhaps, but he still helped out as much as the mage did. He just walked closer to the group.
@@Vod_MacDuff Yeah but the big difference was that the rogue admit his fault
As a frost mage your job is to CC shit. Blizzard glazed your class into the sky by giving you every imaginable tool for that.
Use it.
@@chriswahl1337 this is true.. they do have stealth detection
Most deaths I've seen in hardcore were due to panic + failure of leadership. If the stakes are high you either all need to be grizzled, disciplined veterans (which is never the case), or you need to have one good leader, and 4 people that listen.
Exactly this. It's like, why are you not LOSing the pulls? Why are you not pummel or bashing the caster and pulling back? Why did the druid run face first into aggro range? Why did the rogue, while running literally do nothing? Why didn't the mage rank 1 and help kite, why didn't they just, you know, kill the dogs as they ran instead of panicking? Just so many options that are better, and should have been learned from the 60 levels before this, but streamers get coddled up to 60 and don't learn sometimes.
You need to be calm, cool, collected and give clear concise instructions AND you need a team that values cohesion.
@@Bottleorum I think Pirate was the one with the most experience there. Very odd he did less to help than the absolute noob druid/rogue.
@@Durbyspecial The experience is why he ran and did comparably little. He dumps effectively all his mana into a blizzard for the slow and the blinks away when the call is first made, by the time the call to salvage is made he's low on mp and doesn't even have ice barrier, so he removes himself from being a liability, with given the druid and rogue, should mean the healer can basically just focus on themselves and the tank.
@@MissSmoozie You can downcast blizzard to make it cost very little mana. He had mana gem and robe up, so he could get about half his mana back instantly. Blizzard still slows just as much downcasted. Two blizzards at the choke and near the exit gets the druid out with no risk to himself. A good mage gets the cleric out as well but I'm not mad that he isn't good at the game, just that he left early when it wouldn't have risked anything to help.
Oh, it’s just wow bullshit. Aight I can turn my brain off for this one
Scrolled down a bit to find this post.
I don't know mucb about Wow. COuldn't Pirate do the same spell as amphy by using managem ? Like the speel that put frost on the ground and run + blizzard from far away to slow mobs and still be safe ?
While i agree the call was " Run ", it's obvious that you just look back 2 sec and spamms slow as a mage to save your people ? That's why i don't really agree with asmon here.
yeah not super technical stuff like twitter drama
@@Bob-kt6bi 😂
@@zzephi For someone with such a lack, you sure are interested xD. Get the fuck out of here with your, "oh, I'm such a newb, but this dude is totally fucking up if even I know how to do this" shit xD.
2005: At least I have chicken.
2025: This shit.
well this isnt fake unlike leroyy
Was it that? I thought he said "At least I ain't chicken"
@@Mduenisch He went to get some chicken while they did the briefing. Then he gets back and does the famous line.
Hardcore amps up all the feels
@@themechanicus9698 Leroy was fake?
"He doesn't even let me speak" the guy says, while not letting Tyler1 speak by constantly interrupting and speaking over him.
"Ozy has died so many times, he's probably use to it."
Best quote of 2025 so far😂
"If you are on reddit commenting about how streamers play a game, you are stupid".
Thats a banger line lmao
"If you are on asmongolds youtube channel, commenting about how the stream is, you are stupid." (Asmongold will never read his youtube channel comments)
I mean there's definitely a better place to do it, but do you just want nobody to talk about anything ever? No you commented here because you're just making a comment about a thing you're seeing here? Mind-boggling!
Says the guy who comments on every brainrot, incel post that gets posted to his own subreddit and has literally made a career since the Depp trial of reacting to the dumbest shit on the internet. Asmon is such an idiot sometimes.
@@jordanrose8443 Yeah, not sure how you can be a react streamer but complain about people discussing the exact same shit on Reddit.
@@jordanrose8443He gets paid for it. That changes everything.
The biggest mistake was made by Sara
Dying to save idiots isn't worth it
playing a healer in dungeons is putting your life in other's hands
If Sara was a mage, they would all got out, its not even hard to do lol
Sara thought Pirate had an IQ over 10 but he was wrong.
@@alexjohnson1547listening to LOL players calls on anything not LOL is where they went wrong.
@@alexjohnson1547 good thing yamatos -100 IQ balances it out
one thing a lot of people seem to fail to mention is how thor shakes his head after he did the blizzard when hes walking down the ramp and panning his camera to check if anyone is running aswell. im certain he was fed up with them and well aware they were doomed. not to say that he couldve done more but that explains why he doesnt rly look back until he gets well out of danger at that point
I'd be upset too if I used the last of my mana to blizzard only for my team to stop moving and continue the fight while also pulling an additional pack, this entire situation is crazy and viewers are all being gaslit from their fave streamers to hate Thor, Asmon did a great job breaking this down and pointing out everything that happened imo.
@@Lunar_Liv Thor was hated for a reason.
In case you’re unaware, Thor had a reputation for being the “knowledge guy” with all his tips and advice. But when it came down to putting that knowledge into practice, he never delivered.
Before playing WoW, Thor played Ashes of Creation. In that MMO, there was a conflict between his massive guild of 1,500 members and a smaller guild of only 300. What did Thor do? He taunted them, bragging that his guild would utterly destroy the smaller one. And guess what happened? The smaller guild wiped the floor with Thor's guild.
What’s worse? Instead of owning up to the defeat or standing by his members, Thor abandoned ship. He ditched the very guild he founded, leaving everyone else to deal with the fallout. Pathetic. He talked a big game but, when it came down to it, he ran with his tail between his legs.
I don’t know if you play MMOs, but in most of them, there are items to regain lost HP and MP. The call might be to run, but you can’t always say running is the best option, it depends on the situation. What if you run and accidentally pull more mobs? Then you’ll have even more enemies chasing you. In most MMOs, bosses have a specific range they won’t leave, if you go out of that range, the boss will return to its area. However, mobs usually have a larger aggro range than bosses. So technically, it’s better to run out of the boss’s range while dealing with the mobs in most situations. Simply running isn’t always an effective solution.
If you’re close to the door, then yeah, just run straight for it. But Thor didn’t handle this perfectly. The correct move would’ve been to CC the mobs, not the boss, any newbie who plays MMOs knows that.
@@rhaelfixer2584yapaholic who liked his own comment. Yikes
@@VirginStarrrrr Said by the guy who liked his own comment. Yikes.
@@VirginStarrrrr By the way, I didn't like my own comment. You are weird to assume I did. Perhaps you are self projecting your own ego. Yikes.
What's funny is it actually looks like Snupy pulled BOTH extra packs. LMAO
yep, noticed him low on the first ramp when watching Pirates perspective when pack agroed, definitely pulled that first extra pack. They are mad at Pirate for not taking accountability and yet none of them took accountability for their errors (nothing from druid, and rogue doesn't take accountability for making the call to run "not shot caller")
@@sam0wise I find it incredible people are defending the guy who chose the leadership position and failed to lead effectively. Everyone is shitting on Pirate for not "taking accountability", like where is the leader's responsibility?? Hello, are we children?
@@sam0wise The druid pulled, did what he could to help, died for it and said nothing disparaging afterwards.
In the Pika video Snupy was invited on, he states he did pull both, he's behind an ogre using shread in cat form on the first pull. The boss still would have been pulled because the tank didn't pull back fast enough, and the tank should have pulled back further to give room for the druid in the first place.
@@Earthium Yeah even though Snupy made the first pull it was on the tank for 1 being the leader, 2 not pulling back, and 3, and this is the worst one, cancelling the run order without making it clear he wanted to stop and fight. This entire situation is 100% the tanks fault, and everyone mad at pirate for "not taking responsibility" is just trying to avoid responsibility themselves by making a big deal out of nothing.
Nobody did anything to hurt the group further post run call except for Snupy who pulled MORE. And then the only one who truely HELPED the group after the run call was Sara, the healer who gave up their life to keep the tank alive. The positive outlook on this is that shit happens, but there is one person who is the hero of the group. GG Sara. GG. O7
This, 1000%.
Why's it always the healers bro 😭
Druid Snupy is the one who aggroes the first add at 3:32 going behind the guard
GG Sara RIP
Mage could have cast two more blizzard at choke and exit without any risk to himself. Druid probably lives. A good mage gets all of em out, but it would be tough.
@@Durbyspecial No tough at all, and not even have to be good. Just not total bad. But it's ok to shit your pants and can't judge the situation and thinks somehow it risk to help when u are already 100% safe. it happens I just dont understand why can't admit it and say sorry.
Only because others were also very bad? It makex some excuse?
It's a bit of a conundrum: the type of players who would've been able to get out of this situation alive are the same players who'd never get themselves into such a situation in the first place.
Literally all Thor had to do was press frost nova and blink away. He had a full mana bar.
To reiterate: The ogres are Slow Immune and Root immune. The one toolkit option left available is a single polymorph or figuring out a polymorph chain to buy precious time.
The rogue had more tools available to them. Even if they cracked both mana sources they'd get about 2 more blizzards, but they wouldn't slow and would get maybe 2-3 damage ticks before they are pulled out of the aoe.
Not enough damage, no way to root or slow because mass immunities
@@alexjohnson1547 Full mana bar? you mean the 500 out of ~4600 mana? "full"...
@@alexjohnson1547 respond or delete comment, is it immune to root or not? Tired of this BS dawg.
@@FlyingAce369 only the boss is immune to root there. everything else would have been rooted by frost nova for 8 seconds. then the tank can keep aggro while they all run out of the dungeon. EZPZ
Direct comparison for team dynamics in a high stress operation.
I'm a firefighter. When we are on a structure fire, there are a ton of people involved in the operation all with different jobs. Each person has a perspective different from everyone else on the fireground. If you're inside doing your thing as you should and a call is made to evacuate, it doesn't matter who made that call, the evac horn gets mashed, and it doesn't matter how good you think your tactical position is physically or strategy wise, you cut bait and get the fuck out because someone is seeing something you can't, and when lives are on the line, you can't lone wolf it. You might be gaining on the fire inside, but the roof a floor or two above you is getting ready to drop on your head.
When you hear that evac horn, you evac. Simple as. You don't stick around and try to put more fire out, you don't grab a line and try to advance for a new attack, you get the hell out to your sector command, scene command calls for a PAR, the sectors relay their PAR status, the scene gets reevaluated and a decision of how to move forward is made after the evaluation.
It's easy to armchair quarterback the event in the debrief/replay when everyone's perspectives are available in one place and you can see who could have done what and when, but everybody can't see everybody else's perspective as it's actually happening, and that's why call outs are so damn important and why everyone needs to heed the evac call out when one is made. That's good teamwork.
Im not reading all that bro
i am
this is a good analogy however the appropriate example here would be the evac horn going off, and someone inside the building has the ability to reasonably take someone with them whos stuck without putting themself in danger (i know it doesn't exactly make sense with fire but bear with me here). its the same thing with pirate, he could have saved 1, maybe 2 people's characters without putting himself in any danger if he simply just played his class how you're supposed to, but he was unable to. its really that simple. and people blaming the tank for the initial pull is like blaming the home owner for setting the house on fire or something; at that point its not whats important anymore, its about salvaging the situation. whats also important to consider is, just like an evac call in any kind of institution or company building etc, it isnt as simple as everyone run out of the building chaotically, theres a specific method everyone is taught to avoid chaos. similarly, "run" in WoW doesn't mean every man for himself. especially as a mage, it means space correctly with your abilities to help everyone get out and move as a unit. if strong mobs are already aggrod then you cant just run straight out without helping or someones bound to die, and thats what happened.
You're trying too hard to make a point. It's WoW, not a burning building. Fire is less forgiving than programmed pixels. You either do not respect firemen at all, or are not a fireman to begin with to make that comparison.
That guy is like if Pippin tried to give a speech about how “we could all have done better” because Frodo got stabbed by the troll in Moriah, after HE is the one who knocked the bucket down the well.
Bahaahahahahahah 10/10 comparison 😂😂😂❤
XD
it's more like if Aragorn ran away from a single orc and left them to die after they knocked it down the well. He didn't cause it but could have helped and chose not to.
Thor could have done loads more to keep everyone alive while also never being in range of the mobs, he just roached out.
Yeah, then brings his friends to be stupid all together lol
For people who wants the TLDR: @42:10, @1:01 and 1:29 Asmon says it all.
Why did no one mention the fact that they went straight up the middle instead of around the right side with the bug packs? Almost every Dire Maul Trib run we go to the right side, less elites, quicker clear time
Tank was doodoo and went the wrong way
The group was led by the worst play callers imaginable.
I'm glad Asmon broke it down and played the entire thing frame by frame. That druid really messed up big time. Could Pirate have peeled for the team? Maybe? But one could also argue that Fengus had a gap closer charge, so it's also understandable that he ran as far as he can, there's too many variables in play. Do you peel and hit the mobs with nova, allocate all that mana gem, etc. for CC for the team and potentially lose the opportunity to bail out with blink because of lack of mana? Then what if Fengus charges at you, while you've ran out of mana? Can your teammates really deal with 3 packs with elites and a boss? It's easy to point fingers when people aren't in that exact same situation.. Any level headed person would've attempted to peel, if the situation was really salvageable, but in a situation where comms are a complete mess, and everyone is moving like headless chickens, I probably would've roached out too.
Ozy was the one who made the call to go through the middle.
Tank is suboptimal. Not his first rodeo
As someone who always plays healer, I was happy to see you recognize exactly the problem here. If you are in charge of pulling, pay the eff attention to everyone's mana. No. I won't listen to excuses or blame shifting on that responsibility. If I say mana's low and you don't hear me, you should have checked my bar. And if I hadn't said it yet or at all, you STILL should've checked my bar before pulling. You watch the bars and you hold back when necessary. Period. And if you call run, it's not revocable. Period. The fault here is whoever pulled and then whoever tried to revoke the run command. Not the person who yelled "run". THAT mistake is fixable by just doing it and gaining a reset. Once "run' was declared, any attempts to re-engage to win is a mistake and you own it if you do it.
Finally someone said it. Could he have done more to save them ? Definitely , but everyone is throwing the blame on him for not being "humble" about it when the entire blame is on whoever fucked up the pull. Blame the guy that started the fire for the damage caused not the guy running out of it instead of grabbing the extinguisher on the way out.
@@Borsecann Bad pull GONNA happen now you have mage that can save team and he decide to just run out ... If i group with somebody and i know that if anything goes wrong he will throw me under the bus yeah i'm not gonna group
@@fabienherry6690 And I agree. I would never group with people I don't have any "bond" with in hardcore.
In the same vein I wouldn't expect anyone that I'm not at least on a friendly basis with me to risk their hundreds of hours of time investment for the sake of my fuckup.
@ Well even random you at least expect he is gonna try to help or you would never play tank !
Now if you go that way it justify him getting kicked of the guild as nobody would want to group with him
@ In softcore sure. In hardcore where my one blizzard or cone of cold might get aggro randomly and get me killed I won't risk that many hours for randoms. For friends sure, we all go down with the ship.
And if anything I would rather have people that think like me in the group, because that is predictible behavior so everyone knows what we're getting into.
And just to be clear, I'm not saying my way of playing is right or that you're wrong. But I think it's important to acknowledge that ,just like you and me, we have different playstyles, objectives, expectations in playing the game. And when you have people where that way of thinking is in conflict with each other in a hardcore setting drama is bound to happen.
And the one thing that could solve this for randoms ? Having a good/decisive leader/call maker that keeps everyone on the same page. That was what was lacking in that group.
How tf does this guy keep going on and on to argue over someone listening to the call? F outta here with that shit. Ive done DM Tribute Runs even back in 2005 and know you can not be stupid when making calls. My guild is still around today and some key members I played with for 20 years from doing late night tribute runs, Scholo, Strat orb runs, UBRS, to modern M+ to classic hardcore. Group cohesiveness is very important. Him demanding others to share the blame over his call then him second guessing it is a low IQ and dishonest thing to do because he lacks accountability, and that is a lack of testosterone thing to do.
Apparently he made enough of a stink about it that they kicked pirate out of onlyfangs. It’s legit embarrassing.
forget the fact that the rogue had all his cooldowns available and got out with 100% health after trying to blind the boss mob... but it's the mage's fault, got it.
Honestly, I think people are just dogpiling Pirate simply because he's more famous. There's people that have never even touched WoW coming out of the wood works to try and say something about this situation, and making personality judgements, over video game drama.
@@citizenvulpes4562 It's because he already has a whole horde of people who don't like him anyways and this validates it for them. Screaming Nepo Baby into the void wasn't working anymore and this fell into their laps.
@@citizenvulpes4562 100. They told him to run, they said they had target dummy run. They all should have just ran, tank positioned bad and druid pulled... they should have been the only ones to run.
But people aren't exclusively blaming him for what happened, they are mad at his whole attitude towards the team, the situation and his constant lies. Are you blind or are just ignoring details on purpose? Thor could have 100% helped them out, he didn't because he didn't want to. He let people die on purpose.
He also was mad because of the previous raid which was in fact his fault. He was bitter that he was critiqued by "inferior players" as he puts it, so as revenge he just let them die.
There are solid moments in which he could have uttered a simple sentence, "retreat, I have low mana and can't do much, take any opportunities I give you and leave". He spent 5 seconds doing absolutely nothing, then casts one ability, to then spend even more time doing nothing. Runs away, wastes resources while escaping even though he didn't need to, he was miles away from the threat but still casted a shield, still blinked constantly to keep his mana low while focusing on arguing with Yamato (the one who called out his mistakes prior to this event) and even after all of this, he still lied on everyone's face about the situation.
The clips are there, the vods are there, his negative and toxic attitude towards the team and other players are there. Seeing Thor as a victim is just choosing to remain ignorant.
Not to mention that Thor abandoned his team on Ashes of Creation because he talked big to a smaller guild because of his being a solid 15k members one, and still got obliterated by them. His ego was already hurt from that situation, and then he hopped into WoW to try and show "what he was made of" as an "ex blizzard employee with 20 years of experience" but still couldn't do much while also talking big but showing no skills at all.
He doesn't like being proved wrong, he doesn't like being argued against, he won't give anyone an opportunity to talk if it means looking bad on camera. He has no competent social skills when it comes to confrontation. He can't face being wrong.
His ego is massive, but he doesn't have the spine to carry it.
yeah the rogue can blind/gouge one normal mob.. the rogue says he is a noob though... pirate was all big talk before that, how he is such a good group player and says "men up and solve this as a group" and "we teamed up and kicked ass as a group" and stuff.. its just pathetic if you picture yourself as a gigachad and then use all your mana for blinks while you could press 1 button and CC everyone except the boss and everyone IS save from that one move EZ
"If you had pulled a pack accidentally, and then accidentally pulled the boss, as a mage, if you're told to run, would you have run?" ME? I'd be in Ogrimmar before the second run was even outta the tank's mouth.
And no one will ever play with you, after that so
@@t0nje If the Run leader calls "RUN" then That's what I'm doing. I trust their judgement to know when a run is savable, vs when it's time to dump and come back in.
It's pixels at the end of the day. I don't believe PirateSoftware did anything wrong. Could he have used other options, maybe, he even has stated he didn't do everything perfectly, and could have done other things better, but at the end of the day, a run was called, and he listend.
@@unwashedotaku>If the Run leader calls "RUN" then That's what I'm doing.
You're actually a bot, just like asmongold.
This is truly your best argument?
@@valebonfi4482 i think you just don't like piratesoftware and looking for a chance to dunk on him which is fine because he's insufferable but don't defend anyone else in this group because they suck too
@@valebonfi4482 Here's the thing, Vale, every single streamer currently shitting on Pirate has said precisely what the guy you're responding to has said. If a call is made, you stick with that call.
Yamato telling the group to stay and fight three packs and a boss is what got people killed. Period. End of story. They were moving as a group, but Yamato wanted to fight, and a good Priest died because of it. Snuppy is allegedly a good Druid but he pulled two of the packs in this clip so I'm doubtful.
why I’m not surprised Ozy is the tank. He’s farming death clip content like a day job literally
yeah I think they are just mad they didn't get Pirate(Thor) killed. it was probably just a bait that Thor didn't fall for.
The most important thing in group play is to stick together and follow the call. If the call is to run, everyone needs to commit to running immediately. When some players start running but then turn back to fight while others continue fleeing, it creates confusion and fractures the group. This hesitation and lack of unity leave the group vulnerable and causes people who made the right call to end up getting killed. Clear, consistent action is essential for survival.
Yes but if the call is to Run you run out as a group when you're with guildmates at lvl 60. You definitely try to save everyone as best as you can. Pirate had a lot of time to look at his bars and realize he had mana robe + gem and cast 1 rank blizzards.
@@minguk If people make a run call, and then make a careless "uh we can recover this" call - and you support them, your team gets wiped. If Thor stops to support in that situation, and the rest think the call has changed - they get murked by the other groups that were aggro'd
Without them turning around, the tank was 100% dead (they did save him at least?). But ya whole thing was a clusterfuck
Druid pulled xtra pack, Sara had to heal them and healer threat insta gibbed her. The druid actively killed the Priest.
Doesnt change the fact if the mage played his class he could have saved everyone xD
@Fpsmedia1337 I believe you didn't play much wow. If you played a decent amount you can see these guys are a bunch of noobs who can't be trusted; hence when you know you have to run, you just run because if you try to save somebody, most likely, someone will fuck up and aggro other mobs etc... you take aggro and somehow instead of one guy dying it becomes 3 and one of the guys is yourself.
If they call run, in wow, you just run.
@Fpsmedia1337 "could" ... he saved himself. I've played enough games to know if the tides turn on you when you do help, dont expect the same treatment, most people up and leave. He made the right call for himself. He was oom and the group goofed.
Its hilarious watching it degenerate with streamers into blame games just like any PUG would hahaha.
And on main blame - it was the tanks fault. I used to tank in wow.. he positioned his mobs near the boss and clipped the pull on the boss like a noob.
@@mrfrenly My guy, watch Savix breakdown of the death he is actually speawking some sense.
In no way is it the mages fault that any of them died. But if the mage played WELL, he could have saved them all.
Not his fault, but he still could have saved them all while not putting his char at any RISK
Everyone made mistakes but there is no question the mage griefed the team so hard he had alot of options and everyone died because he never played far worse than the rest borderline trolled
Oh, its just Yamato. This kind of drama happens wherever he goes, whatever game he plays :)
Dude just double downs and never back downs and it dont matter whos at fault, it feels like its just a debate exercise for him every time
they're also saying "we got this" and "this is salvageable come on" the moment the other pack is pulled
Right? Zero situational awareness.
Plus he didnt call out in advance that they are going to try to salvage it tmat the first ramp
@@dwaynev6593 right? He shouldn’t have stopped talking after declaring ’run’
If he wanted them to turn back, he should’ve immediately followed up the ‘run’ command with ‘we’ll turn around and fight’ or something
So that the party knows in advance that they’re planning to turn around, and not fully committed to running away
rogue of the year xD
yeah one big rule, do not call a retreat and then suddenly change your mind that you suddenly got this when you don't when pulling more mobs while also after everyone scattered for you calling a retreat.
Only do that when you do a fake retreat that everybody is in on, or in gaming terms to pull back a little not to call out "RUN!" three times, that is basically saying retreat and run to try and survive.
I think Yamamoto has some communication issue. What he meant by "accountability" is for at least Pirate to talk to the group, not call them idiots(even though they are), and say it's equal accountability and move on but things were blown out of proportions, that's why Yamamoto took a different route, and doubles down on putting some blame on Pirate.
1:23 “you see my mana? What do you want me to do for you?” Life as a fucking healer man
He was the mage lol. I love playing healer.
As someone who plays multiple classes... i feel this, and understand how it feels to be on every side of this situation 🤣😅
As he said that he was mousing over his mana gem 🤣
@@typhon78and blinks and shields right afterwards just so he’s right
That cursor next to the mana gem and robe was a bigger betrayer than Illidan
piRat did well know he had access to mana to safe them
Sara was the true hero all along. RIP Sara, I will remember you in this drama.
The outcome of the group lands on the shoulders of the leader. That is what it takes to be the leader, some people are not cut out for it.
I think that's the problem, the tank was the leader who have been calling the shots.
But he's also clearly a bit panicky and didn’t even realize he's the shot caller, that's why he got so confused when the Rogue suddenly yells "runrunrunwaitnocomeback".
But at least he admits it, the rogue who were the actual bad guy here only cares about making sure the blame is shifted on the mage who made the right decision to bail 😂
saving the worst tank in wow hc is a good deed? he will just cause wipes in the next run xD
@@RisqueBisquetz "run" doesnt mean abandon ship everyman for himself. Mages number one reason in dungeon is to slow mobs and cc. Pirate did 0 of that. If every mage, heck even every ranged class in the game played like this, you can say goodbye to all melees and tanks.
@@RisqueBisquetzcan tell that you have 0 clue what your talking about and that you have no social awareness. The rogue did take some blame for it and accepted it, the problem was that the mage said he did nothing wrong. Not taking accountability says a lot about one’s character. And clearly, if actually know how to play the class, the mage could’ve easily saved everyone in the group. You take Asmon’s word for their survivability rate when he’s clearly just ragebaiting for content? Him bailing just sealed their fate when he was at no risk at all if he helped.
Nah, healer shouldn't have stopped running, they should have been right behind the mage. I say this as someone who has a couple of priests. Its hardcore and someone says run 5 times, meaning its time to leave.
To sum up this video: people are upset about how someone ran after the call “RUN RUN RUN”
Meanwhile LoL mains who have played this game for 1-7 months have more game knowledge than the 20 year veterans.
20 year experiance dosnt keyboard turn.
Making the "run run run" call and then saying oh this is salvageable is like pulling the fire alarm and then stopping the evacuation half way through.
No it’s not
No it's not. Lol wtf
It's more like pulling the fire alarm went back inside to make sure everyone is ok but risking yourself in the process, While Pirate hears the alarm and immediately sprints to the exit not caring of anyone.
@ correct
This whole crazy situation is crazy. The amount of people that came out of the woodwork to watch this was hilarious
this whole situation is insane
this whole situation is wild
I don't know mucb about Wow. COuldn't Pirate do the same spell as amphy by using managem ? Like the speel that put frost on the ground and run + blizzard from far away to slow mobs and still be safe ?
While i agree the call was " Run ", it's obvious that you just look back 2 sec and spamms slow as a mage to save your people ? That's why i don't really agree with asmon here.
@@zzephi the mobs are immune to slow and freeze apart from the non elite dogs, if anything the other players should have done more stuns on them
@@zzephi Mob was immune. Thanks man. Next time just don't. It's a game.
Yamato is treating this whole thing like it was a league of legends fight and I find that hilarious
hope he's better at league than WoW.
@@MrYojib Id be surprised if he was good at anything
@@TGameDev Yamato got kicked from a tourney a year ago for being toxic. Go figure lol
He's so pampered and used to winning arguments in League by just screaming louder. I loved when Thor didn't give any fuck when he tried to pull the same thing just as he said ''but you are not letting me talk''. God that was amazing.
@@TGameDevhe’s annoying but he’s actually a real knowledgeable league player
the hilarious part about hardcore is that you dont even have to play hardcore to experience this exact same drama over a wipe you can respawn from... just having to walk back to your bodies used to start this blame game
I don't play WoW, but I've played other MMOs with dungeon mechanics.
If the party lead calls run, or leave or whatever, that doesn't mean stop and try to fight, that doesn't mean hold the line.
It means abandon ship. Gtfo. Leave. Stop fighting.
The mistakes made were people not being decisive about making decisions.
Whoever was the leader should never be leader again. They have shit leadership in a video game, they probably can't do it IRL either
RIP Sara - Your sacrifice will never be forgotten.
The one person who holds no blame in this mess.
She did what she shouldn't have done, while Pirate did what she should've done. So she's a hero and Pirate's branded a coward.
When video games gets too real 😔
Sara who? I forgot who that was.
@@ser_702 Sara was the priest
Who?
feral druid dps player getting them killed because he HAD to get behind his target and aggro the extra pack. maybe if they brought a real dps they could have killed the 10% mastiff in less than 40 seconds. druid couldnt sprint because like a typical feral he used it to sprint over to the trash mob and be higher on the meters
Based
that's a tanking position issue. warriors just plant their feet instead of moving the pack to a safe spot.
You secretly hate feral druids, I can just tell
That boss was pulling anyways tbh, the pathing of the boss sends the boss up that ramp into the middle of that open space between the pillars. You pull up and to the side out of range of the boss aggro range. Tank issue tbqh. Druid just sped up that ass pull.
@@Acrylick42 It is a tanking positional issue, you're right. But it doesn't remove the accountability from the druid who saw that the boss was close to the patrols, and decided to just run in and aggro the patrol anyway. So while it is the tank's fault, It's also the braindead druid's fault. (not to mention that the same druid later pulled the 2nd extra group too, while they were running out)
is this Yamato the same that everyone hates in League? One the most toxic guys ever seen
yes he is and he isnt even good in lol. he only got carried by babystarz back in the day, guy is mental and nobody in lol community takes him srsly.
@@trunks41061Ironically, even in league, pros say that committing together on a bad call is almost always better than not playing as a team.
@@BladeEdge93 but thats league, not World of Warcraft.
is this pirate atl acc who talks in a deeper voice ? and sucks at wow and blaimes everyone else
@ both are casual gamers, not really the best in games.
Bro claims HE saved the tank. No SARA saved the tank and died for it.
Shouldn't be saving anyone in hardcore while at the cost of yourself.
He killed Sara by pressuring them to heal the tank in an unsafe situation.
1:18:10 I played OW2 in an esports setting (as captain) a couple years back, and although WoW and OW2 are vastly different games, the principle of resource allocation still applies to both. If you make a call, then people are going to spend valuable resources to bring about the desired result (in this case, running); doubling back on a call after people have already dedicated significant resources to its completion will leave you extremely vulnerable and worse off than where you started.
I knew it's Yamato the second he flamed somebody, started projecting and behaved worse than I with 12
I can't get over homie biting his arm.
@@insignia406 do you? like who cares
Just casual mental retardation at work
@@xinel4576 basement incel opinion
@@insignia406 low emotional iq.
@@xinel4576 lmao the dude took a video of him biting his own arm while in a stressful situation, I think its fair to wonder why. Also, you clearly cared enough to come down here and defend him so how about you stop it lil guy.
No leadership killed people. As a warrior in hardcore I mash 2 macros that scream to pop cooldowns and use CC whenever a pull is sketchy.
Ah yamato.
He's a notorious flamer in league. Loves pushing his mistakes onto other people and calls them "productive criticism" and so on and so forth.
He was in a streamer team like a year or two ago that had the same issue with him, always blaming others when he did stupid shit.
True, if only all the wow vet streamers didn't also blame Pirate you would have a point.
Yoyo. Can you link me those vids. I wanna see what they say. Asmon broke down he had already used up his mana to escape when the call was made so i wanna know what the arguments were to say that its pirate's fault.
Are they just blaming that or are they just arguing about him being annoyed with Yamato being a whiny bitch, which is my point. If they got other points I would appreciate being able to watch them break it down. @@DinantZ
@@sangminyi93 Links don't work. Check out lsf, its a cook fest, from there choose one of the vets, lets say soda(who is the guild leader*) and click to see the full stream for a fuller take if you think its out of context.
@@sangminyi93nearly every one I've seen outside of grubby and asmon has been clipchimped to hell and back. literally just clips and timestamps instead of watching and breaking down all perspectives and issues
@@DinantZ scroll up and look at the well structured paragraphs about how the rogue didn't gouge, kidney shot, etc... any of the trash. They skipped a pack and payed the price, they were at the start of the dungeon anyways. It would have wasted maybe 30 seconds if they just all bailed and walked out of the instance to drop aggro. Yammato is also notorious for pulling shit like this, plays backseat driver constantly and talks massive shit while masking it as "productive criticism". PirateSoftware played poorly, but he did as he was told. Better players wouldn't of fucked this pull in the first place. Just a case of being bad players, which isn't an issue if you reflect and be better.
Inside man, broken arrow, calculated failure. Intended fall guy survived, literal meltdown as a result.
Ohhhh now that you said this, this kinda make sense 😂😂
Yeah this was clearly a setup which backfired
Yup. Pirate needs to watch the members he groups with
your name adds to all this alot lol
@@farrrran lol
This is like being in a 1v5 in siege, and your entire dead team is telling you how bad you are from the grave
When you make Tyler look like the calm non-toxic guy you know you have some serious issues ( Not hating on Tyler LOL brings the worst out in people its the number 1 reason why people quit)
I know exactly what you mean. Tyler sitting there calmly analysing both parties take and getting to the crux of it is not something I expected from him as GM. Was waiting for him to start screaming and rant hahaha.
@@Squall598 As I understand it Tyler has been pretty chill for a while now. He is also apparently a really good chess player now lol.
@@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133 He also became a dad :3
@@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133 I've heard he has just kept the one opening for the most part and reached 1900, which is impressive.
Tyler plays a character...
I recommend you check out who this kid yamatosdeath is. He was like this playing League of Legends - everyone else is at fault, everyone else mess up but him. Talking about accountability is crazy from this kid. I am surprise Thor plays with him to start with
Never watched yamato, but it seems to me that what they reproached to PirateSoft was not even trying to help
The tank NEVER called BOSS and just pulled.
Druid is a moron and cost the priest to die.
Yep. He stopped to do some sweet sweet damage and killed the priest
Druid Snupy is the one who aggroes the first add at 3:32 going behind the guard. The patient zero of fucking up.
the yapping was kind of the problem they were distracted and should have checked that everyone was ready
Druid may have fucked up point blank but Yamato caused the drama, as usual
@CatTroll21everybody's a noob
Tyler1 breaking immersion and genuinely giving his own take was a power point presentation I did not expect.
the pull was terrible, the run call was correct, the indecision and lack of communication to salvage after the run call caused the wipe. why take that risk in HC.
Thank you so much for calling this out. The person also didnt said lets try salvage this pirate get back.
@@dwaynev6593 he did
run means literally in every scenario, mage use slows while team runs. 90% of why you bring a mage.
@@t0nje yah you’re not wrong, idk. This is a group of players that are all streamers and ALL have massive ego’s. this entire fkn thing is the pot calling the kettle black lol. I Don’t blame Thor for his attitude. He openly admitted he fucked up but wouldn’t accept equal responsibility, which is fair, I wouldn’t either. The guy throwing shade at Thor was acting like a fkn child, calling for = responsibility while not being responsible for his absolute spoilt brat only child bullshit attitude. I’d nope out of that shit the same way Thor did, Anyone would dig their heels in, the best part is: Thor is probably one of if not the most successful streamers in only fangs and it really just looks like tall poppy syndrome.
@@t0njebut the boss isn’t slowed so even if you slow the mobs the boss is just front and center in your face. The boss is the issue and CC on the mobs doesn’t change this equation because it doesn’t solve for all the damage the boss will do. Even if you try you slow mobs the boss comes you plink damage and then the mobs come forward you’re still screwed
what i don't get is why, after calling run run run, then seeing and acknowledging the mage is not there... why stay? at that point, commit to the run out
Running away usually involves cc'ing and kiting, especially in hardcore. I have no clue who any of the streamers are, but this is my neutral opinion as a wow player and after watching the clips.
@Numa92 Yes and he started doing that, but then THEY second guessed themselves and stopped running. Such an idiotic situation, honestly.
Well because if the mana-less mage turned around and nova'd a few mobs and a cc immune boss then they'd all survive of course. Its the mana-less mage's fault not the people who turned around to fight an unwinnable fight for no reason when they absolutely could and would have got out if they ran as called.
@@jamieclarke2694 he had mana gem and robe, he had mana for nova and a couple of blizzards. That means its just the boss thats hitting the tank. They can easily either clear or run out with 0% risk this way.
@kklap3219 Yeah but they didn't run out. They stayed for no reason. The only reason he could have saved them is because they decided to not save themselves. Screw that lol
If he did rank1 blizzard or a nova the chances of more people surviving was higher. But, why didnt the rogue keep attacking the dogs he was basically following the warrior out watching him die, he has gouge, blind, vanish, put on crippling poison. Is it only the mage fault? Hell no, everyone in that group was pepega and just wants someone to blame. there is alot of spots where they were where they could have kited the mobs until forever, just like hunters doing DMT solo can do they didnt. All of them just have bad game knowledge.
Thats why he is going for “accountability” bullsht because hes the one who could’ve better lol, he just trying to deflect to thor classic league player behavior it’s everyone’s fault but never theirs
agreed, everyone calling out the mage but the rogue could've killed those low hp dogs easily with AR/bladeflurry and even had evasion. With the dogs downed the tank wouldn't have been dazed (why is he being dazed). Rogue could have even blinded a non-boss ogre or another dog agroed on the priest. And crippling poison slowed something. Instead he just acted as a NPC and bit his own arm
To be fair, the rogue is a new player while the mage has thousands of hours in the game.
@@skolex3121 man is really asking for accountability when literally all of his cds are available until the end? doesn't take an experienced player to know he should sit this one out
@@episode389 rogue admitted he played bad, mage didn't. that why drama happened
I actually think the rogue was just as at fault for the deaths as the druid and tank because he was the one making calls then contradicting his own calls thus creating more panic and confusion. The only one making the fully correct choice was Thor as he ran when told to, cast blizzard when he had the chance to, gave up on that when realizing it wouldn't work on the real threat, was running without pulling extras, and communicated why he can't do more. If he had of come back he would have actually caused more issues potentially and most likely have died while really having little that could do anything. The right choice was run as they were not going to salvage that situation at those mana levels. They should have stuck to the run call and not doubled back since it was called. The better choice was to know the pull was in a bad location and that it was done in a bad timing without the two needing mana most being prepared for it. Them talking about random things when you aren't expecting a pull is normal, if you look as soon as the pull started he stopped talking when it got serious so that did not contribute at all. Again a pull like that was unexpected and thus there was no reason to expect to need to drink yet. Hindsight on the need to drink is of course obvious but logically putting yourself in the moment it would have not been a time to drink yet, the time would be after that pull when you are going for boss. Tank, feral dps, and shot caller were the issue it was not a Thor issue. That said why is a rogue of all people doing the shot calling and not understanding the mechanics? Literally saw the healer getting attacked for doing the healing he was told to do and didn't try to kill the mob on him or cc the mob on him even when the rogue had vanish up. He should have been more aware of who he can cc and who he can kick as well. It preferably should have been the tank or healer doing calls as they are more aware of group needs and positions typically. The tank has to take some responsibility as well because any good tank knows you should avoid pulling on ramps or near ledges as they are notorious for pulling extra mobs on different levels and should know to avoid giving up your back, he should have been strafing with that group even backpedaling would have been better during slows. This simple movement tip is something I see a majority of the only Fangs Tanks missing. The druid mistakes were covered in this video. The only thing not covered is if he had of ran as originally told to and gotten further away he could have been doing more healing and the healer and tank would have also been fine.
I think people forget how aggro worked back in vanilla. Now a days if you’re tank you pretty much are guaranteed aggro, but back in the day threat was a real problem if the tank isn’t constantly hitting mobs or the boss.
Yeah those peps try to pin the blame to thor, they doesnt know threat mechanics and why thor couldnt do it.
@@dwaynev6593 Thor couldn't do it because he sucks at the game. Simple as that. Barely any keybinds, "forgot" he had mana gem, robe, pot and access to rank 1 CC spells that are almost free at lvl 60. The mess-up wasn't his fault but being this bad and spineless for not even helping them with anything is all on him.
@@0rcd0c why help if it wouldnt change the outcome other than add him to the death list? He was given directions to run multiple times. He did what a good group mate would do and follow commands. Not his fault. Did you watch the video? This was explained like 50 times.
@@0rcd0c with this same argument why don't you blame the rogue? he could've blinded a non-boss/elite mob, blade flurry with his AR up and kill the dogs to remove the bleeds or slows and even evasion tanked if they swung at him and could have used feint to drop aggro and sprint away. No mana cost, had his HP potion available and vanish too. Could've gouged 1 mob too and vanish stunned another. But instead he made the "run run run" call, stood around doing nothing staring at everyone else running, jumped around a bit then walked out the dungeon.
You're only seeing the best possible outcomes for the mage, if the mage stayed the boss could have done a charge knockback during a blizzard cast, or in melee range died to a melee swing after casting frost nova. A call was made to GTFO, and he GTFO-ed. If it was a paladin and he bubble hearthed it would've been the same (with no other escapes if a run call was made that's his only option too). Im not saying he isn't shit, he is. But he was under no obligation to do anything other than GTFO but he still turned around 3 times.
Your argument that the mage could have done more is done in hindsight watching a video without panic being able to analyse everything. Why did the warrior tank get dazed while running away when he had defensive stance? Why was the druid jumping around? Why did the druid agro 2 extra packs and the boss by running behind the mobs?
@@duckimpact Oh, the rogue was definitely poop, too and most of them did an abudance of mistakes but here are some of the main differences:
- it's harder to execute CC on the rogue in this situation than on a mage
- the rogue is new to the game, pirate is a veteran
- all the reamining 4 people tried to help each other with whatever they had even though some of the things were arguably dumb
- the only person who could have contributed the most with minimal risk and supposedly one of the more experienced player did nothing and ran away like a chicken. And instead of admitting it, he starts to gas light
- it's not even an argument of "doing more in hindsight" he has done nothing at all to begin. If you think that he has no obligation for a guild group then stop complaining when he's being called out for roaching
1 - The group decided to skip packs, which would of taken them 3 mins to clear. 2 - THE GROUP DECIDED TO SKIP PACKS, WHICH WOULD OF TAKEN THEM 3 MINS TO CLEAR! 3 - Ozy was tanking. 4 - The pull was dogshit, and since they didn't clear, so they put themselves under more pressure then needed. 5 - THEY called "RUN RUN RUN", if they stuck with this, they would of made it out alive, but instead half way through, they decided "Maybe we can do this", then the druid pulls another pack. I personally think they all fuked up. (The priest did nothing wrong, apart from trying to Save Ozy and the Druid)
"run" in hardcore doesnt mean everyman for himself because that means that healer and probably tank will die. Run means go out together and mage abandoned the only job a mage has in a dungeon.
@@t0nje I'm not defending Pirate, i'm "trying" to explain the situation, as a mage of 10+ years, Pirate played like shit, and could of done better. In the end, mistakes were made everywhere, they all fuked up (except the Priest, which sadly died trying to save ppl)
@ No, they would not all live in this scenario without mage doing a mage should do. Best case either tank or priest will die, priest will either overaggro from healing tank while running, or tank dies from tanking without heals.
@@t0njebuddy, with what mana is the mage supposed to do shit? Terrible engage with a party that was not healthy/mana filled for that fight
@@Duneboy13 he had a mana gem and a mana restore ability on his robe. even without that, he could have used rank 1 spells with the mana he had. no one besides asmonroach defending the mage on this.
I blame this guy who's POV were watching. He was chewing on his own arm...@4:16
WoW players are something else🤣
The guy :
- Called to run (if it's salvageable you don't call to run) this sealed the fate of the warrior obviously
- Did pretty much nothing for the entire escape
- Then gives an opposite call to save the warrior sealing the fate of whoever stayed and couldn't escape (unlike him)
- Then started yapping at the one mage who did follow the call to run (mage who would be stupid to go back in melee range to nova a pack with an immun boss (nova don't last forever))
Truth is this yamato guy is a toxic child who can't handle the guilt of Sara and Snuppy (who also messed up) death, so he is trying to put the guilt on someone else shoulders.
I don't understand how people are still supporting super toxic and manipulative guy like that... world is fucked
@@narodekk Rogue had just about every cd up as well,
-gouge one
-blind another
-tank a couple with your evasion even start kiting with sprint
-health pot?
-vanish to reset threat, and run interference.
like damn he coulda instantly put crippling on hes weps and slowed them yea?
pretty sure theirs some cool plays he could of done with a vanish distract that might of stopped one of the extra pat pulls even?
@@Burt420 He's not a wow player though he's a league player.
@@baz1324 He's a really bad rogue.
Also doesn’t matter if yamato called run. Ozzy (the shot caller) said run right after and continued to say run.
Let’s save y’all an hour and a half
“A bunch of wow nerds are arguing who’s at fault for a wipe”
It was their parent's fault
Nah, he explains it at 47:00. The whole point was explaining that "the goal of Blizzard [Entertainment] is to make you slow [in the head]". Try to keep up.
Thanks! I was like what the fuck is the drama now, i feel like i cant care! Turns out its about a game i’ve never played so!
guy can copy then reword most popular comment, CONGRATS. Imagine calling people out for being nerds, when youre so desperate for likes you steal comments and slightly reword them lol
@@AnonCommenter-k5m Calm down nerd, people dont all get to see the same comments. They are personalized. Sometimes I scroll down only to see a comment with 2k likes on some videos, meaning it definitly was seen by more people but not on top for me. Same with this comment, i replied to it because it was the 5-6th comment in my comment list… i didnt see anyone else comment this. So a lot of the time people just have the same thoughts. Or the bots just have gotten better :)
Saying RUN in a pull is like saying REPEAT on a radio to an artillery battery. You can't take it back.
Yup, that's how I always felt playing artillery in hell let loose, watching people run into the area I have been shelling for the last 5 minutes knowing that I still have 4 rounds in the air and it takes roughly 30 seconds for them to land, then listening them blame me for the teamkills, and having some random machine gunner unironically tell me that they aren't teamkilling people so I shouldn't be either.
wow comparing a 20 yo ass videogame to a real life situation
jesus man...
It's ironic how the one person who is claiming people need to take accountability is the one taking zero accountability.
Just came from tyler video. Yamato apologized to both Snupy and the healer. Minimum 5 times for asking to heal tank and them dying.
He is fine with Pirate running and playing bad because everyone makes mistakes but Pirate being so dismissive and not taking any accountability is where he and many people are pissed off with.
Watch Soda, Savix or Xaryu even Grubby's take. Anyone who is playing the game says same thing. Just say my bad dude, and everyone will leave him alone.
@@spikegamer5143 It wasn't Pirates fault that they died. They want to blame him because he was the furthest from the shit storm that they started and the first to get out. In the end it didn't really matter because the run call was made.
@@itsoverloaded6928 and the call to come back was made, he 1000% could have saved them if he was a competant mage, but the issuse is the asshole ego after losing members and just leaving from calls/issues.
@@itsoverloaded6928yeah it was his fault that they died. He should have done absolutely anything to help. He had so many chances but just didn’t care about helping, then doubles down and blames his team. Act like that in real life and see how many friends you have.
@@sparv1067 No, it was the fault of whoever pulled that they died. Stop trying to pass the blame on someone who could have helped rather than blaming why they needed help in the first place.
I get that Snupy messed up. But to defend him, he did go to Pirate admitting his mistake, apologize, and tell him that he didn't want this to get blown to the proportion it was. He doesn't blame Pirate like Yamamoto does.
Snupy did a great explaination in a Pikaboo video. He tells where everyone made mistakes except the priest. No one is solely to blame but Pirate running out looks really bad when he still had a lot of tools available.
@@minguk It looks really bad is the entire thing. Like people who don't play the game or can't judge it think he roached out and burned mana on purpose. Like there is nothing he could have realistically done that would have impacted the fight and risking his character is an even dumber play from a hardcore perspective. My conclusion was Pirate is an average player, and onlyfangs doesn't actually care about hardcore, because they would prefer drama and content over actual objectives.
Like I wonder if Tinyviolin will reappear and wipe raids again because it's just content and they can keep the money wagon going.
@@EarthiumLiterallt every pro WoW streamer says he could have saved the situation. However they don't expect him to play like Xar, amphy or Ziqo. It's the attitude that he did nothing wrong or could have done nothing better that annoys people. When clearly a better player would have saved him.
No one cares if you panic and just own up to it.
@@mingukthats contradictory. No one expects him to play like the top players so ofc he would say there was nothing he could've done better because as you said hes not a top player but then you get mad? wtf.
@ People are mad because he keeps saying he couldnt have done anything better. The attitude after the play is the problem. Not the play itself.
Ozy did a terrible pull and should of paid the price for it. Instead 2 people died to save him and the other 2 are being blamed for not playing perfectly and utilising their kit to max efficiency in a panic situation.
Yes, Pirate and the Yamato could have both utilised they're class and abilities way better, but I know me personally and many others would 100% roach out. Fuck losing 300+ hours because your stupid tank does a stupid pull. He can die for his mistake.
Difference being, one claims to be a classic god gamer, the other is new to wow.
Hardcore shows peoples true colours. Yamato would go down with his team, TRYING to save them. Thats the difference.
There's a balance of when to roach, or you can just always roach at first instance and that just doesn't seem the most helpful if you're in a group with guildies for a goal. In this specific situation, there was no need to roach, except for the reason being they were not skilled enough to figure out what to do. So should Pirate have done more? Yes, but can he cause of his knowledge of the game and abilities? I suspect no, he doesnt, and thats why he ran. I think the hang up here is that, he's not admitting to it at the beginning and I think thats what some of them want, is for the accountability. He doesn't need to do that either, thats his choice and others being upset is ok too. Everyone else just needs to take this info in and make that decision do you want to enter a dungeon with a first to roach or last to roach mentality.
@@bonse1 he had the chance and did not, wtf u talking about? xD he just stayed kinda near but did no s**t about it other than talking xD
@@bonse1 sorry but 'going down with the team' is for when I play with my best friends, not with a bunch of random n00bs. If they knew Thor was more experienced, they should consult him about the pull. Seeing this I honestly wonder how the rest of the party even got to lvl 60 on hardcore.
@@bonse1but Yamato didnt “go down with his team”.. so what is this point? Just to show you ❤ yamato? Got it.
Theres a clip from the druids pov and the 2nd pack actually gets asspulled by him going behind the pack and jumping around while the rogue stayed further away, the whole situation was literally caused by the druids incompetence
what are you even yapping about, he did what he should have, the problem lies in the tank tanking in the wrong place, then the druid standing in the wrong spot and asspulling the mobs, its literally the classic wow accidental ninjapull
@@chukicana1836 "he did what he should have" True, he should've lied about having no mana, he should've kept silent when the initial boss pull was manageable and killable with his decades of WoW experience, he should've answered with snark and contempt, smiled, and hovered over his mana gem when stating he has no mana, he should've casted frost barrier for no reason to seem like he has even less mana, he should've ignored casting cone of cold or nova, he should've continued on the second dungeon try after near death on the first try.
And that's exactly what he did. He did what he *thought* he should have. Like a narcissist.
@@Billionsmustchill lmao, you know nothing about this game. Boss still would have killed people, boss is cc immune. Case closed, goodbye everyone
@@SubzeroRUclips Lol on you for thinking they couldn't have killed the boss. You know they kill the dogs and low hp brute in like 4 seconds, poly the remaining brute, and the kil the lone boss right? And in case if they decide to run they still all 100% live because boss doesn't do enough ALONE. Lmao, even
@@Billionsmustchill Then the call should not have been made by the group's lead to "Run." The fact that leadership made the call and the DPS followed it to the letter is not the fault of the DPS. You call "Run" and it's done until there's a reset. End of story.
Why is the rogue not fighting about 95% of the fight?
why is the mage not fighting 100% of the fight?
rogues are a melee class.
@@anklebreaker9705 mage was oom, invocation cd, we know both from the video
@@Tartersauce101 rogue had vanish and sprint up. he could fight and get down 1 or 2 more dogs while running out without getting any agro from the boss but reducing the dmg input a lot, if he would get aggro he could have vanished and also still had his sprint, the rogue roached the most in my opinion.
Just kill 1, 2 dogs and vanish.
@@kasebrotworst7279 Mage had both gem and robe up. He had plenty of mana.
People are 100% just trying to find a reason to hate this guy. This has nothing to do with the game.
And honestly, if they would have just pulled the first pack back up the ramp at the VERY beginning, they wouldn't have pulled the second pack.
Basically its:
Sargent: I'm calling FUBAR, go for extraction!
Sargent: Are you fine?! Keep up Private B!
Sargent: Hey corporal stop running ahead and do something! We lost Private Sara
Corporal: Sarge you called for FUBAR!
Sargent: Yeah but you shouldn't listen to me!
Then back at base, Sargent is saying the Corporal is wrong for following protocol when he called FUBAR because he should have waved his empty ammo rifle to attract attention so Private Sara didn't die instead of heading for extraction
These guys were clueless, mismanaged, and unprepared.
shareholders are not impressed with the lack of leadership
Doomed from the start one could say or more colloquially they set sail for fail... truly a ship of fools
Someone says "runrunrurunrunrunrun" and then another person in the group also says run. You now have HALF the group calling run, and the other 2 start running. The whole team was in accord with RUN. Then you get some ppl questioning whether its salvageable, but the mage says OOM. To re-engage is an uphill battle that shouldn't have even been attempted.
All of their points are moot because that was an unsurvivable fight with everyone having full mana and health at the start.
When you pull that boss you sneak around him and pull those mobs first for that reason.
The only time when you weren't super careful with that boss pull was when you were already in raid gear and have it on farm, and even then you pull that group with the boss, someone is going to die.
That is just how it has always been since day 1 of DM release.
The tank was a fucking idiot. and made a bad pull and he made that stupid pull when people didn't have resources and health.
If you wanted to place blame, it was the tank.
To give credits, the tank admitted it's his fault.
It's the rogue that instigated the hate raids towards Pirate, even though he also have his share of fault.
@@RisqueBisquetz yeah the rogue also made the bad calls to change from running back to fighting and then instigated the drama blaming it on Pirate which was just insane. Pirate and Sara are the victims here.
@@RisqueBisquetz Good on the tank, though IIRC this was the same tank that Pirate has had to call out a few times before in this OnlyFangs Hardcore. It's frankly pure luck and other people picking up the slack that has seemingly kept him alive. That said, that's still better than the Rogue, who made bad calls and expected Pirate to risk his own character and all the other shit mentioned on a run that would've wiped ALL of them if he'd stayed. Like Asmon said, if RUN is called, you don't second-guess, because at least one person isn't gonna listen to the second-guessing, and you aren't gonna survive an already scuffed boss pull when down a player.
@@Joyappwouldnt call pirate a victim he wasted his mana the entire run and even after he was safe he continued blinking/shielding to waste the rest of his mana to appear low mana at the end
@@mufasafalldown8401 his "victimhood" is all this drama going his way because of the druid and warrior's terrible positioning and all of this could have been a nothing biscuit. He could have done more but he followed the run call. I am more annoyed at the rogue being a cameraman and doing literally nothing the entire time the group was running but filming.
Everyone except the healer screwed up but it's especially Snuppy's fault cause he's the one who pulled both groups of adds and the boss in the first place. Either way, the rogue has no business being pissed when he also could have done so much more to help.
mage didn't screw up. healer screwed up by running back and died as a result. he saved the tank, but in hc would you rather save someone and have to level again, or live?
@@Riznichard Saving the tank was not a screw up, it was a choice. It's like saying choosing pizza over chicken nugs is a screw up, just a decision that was made. And yes pirate did screw up, was it the cause of everything? No, but he could have done far more.
@ he died in hc due to that “choice”. That’s called a mistake. Mage is still alive, followed orders, and didn’t pull extra mobs or screw up anything
@@Riznichard 2 spells from mage and everyone lives, that's his role and he didn't do it. too bad for the healer (druid only has himself to blame)
@@YourNemesis23 Rogue kills the Mastiffs from the start instead of biting his arm and looking around for 30 seconds before doing anything, everyone lives as well. He had Vanish and sprint, he was in no danger whatsoever. Druid doesn't pull the adds in the first place everyone lives. Tank doesn't pull while the mage is at nearly half mana and then actually brings the mobs back instead of fighting them on the slope near the adds and the patrolling boss everyone lives.
Once again, they all screwed up. They have no right to be mad at the mage only.
45:29 Telling them they’re being farmed is so funny
Bro got 1,4m views
🤣🤣🤣peak farming
In the deep of Dire Maul奏出伤的歌 Every man for himself 提悲伤的歌 Mage cannot save you 提悲伤的歌 Blink Blink 提悲伤的歌 To the door of light 提悲伤的歌 maldavius figtree
Every problem from this situation is addressed in the book, Extreme Ownership, and the Jocko Podcast. There are no bad teams, only bad leaders. And even in Navy Seal teams, if someone makes a call, even a junior member, then the team has to act on that call. These are basic leadership fundamentals.
Multiple people saying "run just run"
Guy who said it first: "Bro wtf why did this guy run?"
Stop, you're just repeating what Asmon is saying and he's plain wrong. "Run" means stay with your group and go together, it doesn't mean every man for himself. He could've easily prevented those deaths had he moved with the group and used his CC's, but he didn't.
@Shuubox isn't the boss cc immune tho? So I don't think it would change much if he gets close to the pack and nova and the boss isn't affected to since now he's screwed to
Yes!
Also I hate this of "group communist thinking" shit of "It's everybody's fault, noone is at fault, we are a group and work together" such a dumb kindergarden shild thinking.
@@lordmakino9514 In the rogue's POV you can see that they managed to CC the boss as they are running, but at this point Pirate was already gone.
All they needed was a nova on the rest of the mobs and they would've made it. The boss does little dmg, like 90-110 a hit, it was the trash mobs that got them.
@Shuubox yea but some cc immune popped up plus he calls run I'm sorry but if your given a order if your not gonna follow it I'd rather dump you on another team so in a way it was a smart decision to follow orders
I'm going to end this argument, the mage-lord that they didn't kill casted bloodlust on the brute when it got agro'd so killing the mastiff was going to do nothing.
ive never played WOW but from what i can understand the boss fight went south, everyone made mistakes, they blame thor for what i assume is them wanting someone to else to take the fall, thor wasn't having that shit, and now they're mad that he stood his ground.
is that right or am i dumb?
Sounds close, j saw one comment saying the dude didn't like pirate already and this was the tipping point.
they wanted thor to run in and cast a spell that freezes all the mobs, aka all the units except the boss. On thors perspective, he'd have to run through the boss to cast nova, which would increase his aggro and since he's dps if he gets touched by the boss twice he's dead, the problem is yamato's dumbass said run instead of kite and got mad when he ran. Everyone could've played better, they all played like low level players which happens.
If you played wow youd know pirate Is in the wrong 100 percent. He Is a frost mage that can slow down or directly lock in place every mob except bosses. Not having mana isnt a excuse because he can cast a cast a rank 1 spell that Is basically free, not even 50 mana, that slows exactly the same as a Max rank, just less damage. Almost every other player in his shoes could have done it. He just missplayed really badly and refused to accept it. Deserved gkick tbh
@ brother this is less about him casting or the mana and more about the fact that he was told to run, ran, then was asked why he's running after he'd already cast blizzard and blinked. Now he'd have to go past the boss, cast FN which does up his aggro, and he doesnt have blink up either, by the time he gets to the group after he'd blinked the first time the shitshows already over and the healers already dead. nova is basically a melee ranged spell, he could've cast blizzard but that wouldn't have changed anything, boss was still slowing the group and blizzard doesnt slow their movement speed enough for it to matter when they're already dazing you, you need hard cc to be cast which would be impossible due to distance and risk. You're just bad at the game, happens.
@@LucasRulesX3 Lmao such a salty take. He peeled with blizzard and listened to the run call but druid rogue and warrior stuck around instead of listening to the call then act surprised when he wasn't with the group.
The boss was not the only mob. The rest of the mobs are NOT immune to CC. Thats why its called CC.
If we want to talk about hypothetical outcomes. A true dungeon lord rogue would have vanished, sprinted and distracted that boss to save the group. Either way what anyone says, the tank here should have been the shot caller and directed CC uses in the chaos. Either way, playing hardcore you sign up to die in stupid situations no matter the level. Get over it
he was petrified in fear
everyone talking about hypothetical forgets that a true god rogue could've saved this better than the mage could have with blade flurry/AR on the dogs, blind on non-boss mob, gouge and vanish stunned while sprinting to delay enemies so the priest wouldn't die. Hell if speaking of hypotheticals they could've dropped a second target dummy and ran.
@@duckimpactyes and the point is that everyone admitted the could have played better like that except the mage. The mage is the only one who refused to admit he could have done more. And the mage is the only one who did basically nothing to help. Didn't even try. Intentionally wasted all his mana so he could just stand there saying "do you see my mana bro". He's the only one making excuses while everyone else is being self critical.
@@stillnotchill2560but he says they all could have played better in the vid. He just isn’t taking responsibility because it’s all on the tank, the Druid and rogue. The tank couldn’t hold aggro, so it was scattered. If the mage cast, then it could be any one of them that would take aggro and die. So it would have been even worse. The packs were spread out as well. Then another pack was pulled by the Druid. So 3 packs plus a boss all spread out and aggro scattered and you want a clothy mage to cast a direct the aggro randomly in hardcore HC?
The only two who is said consistently to have NOT fucked up, is Sara and Thor. Could they have done better? Absolutely and even Thor says this, however the others actively fucked up. Why should the ones who did decently have to play better to make up for everyone else's fuck ups? You don't apologise for not playing perfectly. You apologise for playing badly.
Why should the two who didn't fuck up, apologise?
That's stupid.
oOoOoOo, "drama" two people died in a game old enough to vote, druid killed himself & that priest
Thank you man this comment made me laugh 😂 made my day!
TBF id rather this be the drama than youtubers being pedophiles. Its a nice change of pace for once
It's Yamato. I'd never take him complaining about someone else's gameplay seriously. hes always complaining and blaming other people for everything. Idk how RatIRL likes the guy tbh
If he assumed a leadership position in the raid then the buck stops with him, end of story. If you want to be a leader that means everything is your responsibility. Now a player can seriously fuck up or not follow instructions, then it's on them, but he clearly said "run run run" and did not clearly countermand that order. I run crews IRL, if you want to be a leader that means you want to take responsibility. You don't get it both ways.
@@vyvianalcott1681 Yamato was never the leader. he legit has the least hours on the game xd. the tank was the leader. In what world does the mage solo run out and leave his entire party behind? he is the entire teams peeler. He did this twice btw same way except the first one he pulled then ran as fast as possible and ditched the group. ofc they all played badly which they owned up to besides pirate who ran as fast as possible to save himself.
@armin7321 My mistake, going over it with my friends last night I realized the tank was the leader. Which is even worse, because after he called run he changed his mind and did not make that clear. Then the druid carelessly jumped down the ramp and pulled an extra group of mobs, since that group had no tank aggro and the healer was healing the healer pulled aggro. The druid and the tank are 100% responsible for those deaths, y'all are trying to blame the mage because you're salty little children who don't know how to take responsibility for your mistakes. Ironic that you're all upset at Thor for not admitting the tiniest mistake of putting too much distance after he blizzarded, as if that would have made any difference to the sheer incompetence of that group.
Imagine seeing the group of mobs walking in the path you're standing, and not expecting to pull it...
the rogue was doing literally nothing the whole run out and has the audacity to complain.
Nothing? Bro he was the one who caused the deaths 😂
If he actually kept telling everyone to run it would've been fine.
He just started playing you waste of oxygen
@@RisqueBisquetz no, if they all run like pirate did tank dies like 20 s in. You can see the healer turning around when pirate is close to the corner.
@@SnowBlitz12 LMAO, yamato a trash LoL player, shot calling in dungeon. Being new even while being 60 is not excuse. KID.
@doroza2lol Why would they make a new player the shotcaller when the stakes are so high 😂😂😂 Are you listening to yourself?