Are Church Gigs Worth It? | EP48 | The SBL Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- 184 | EP48 | Are Church Gigs Worth It?
As gloriously varied as it is hugely popular, playing bass on a church gig is no small feat. In this episode, Ian Allison takes a closer look at church music: what it is, what you should expect and some of the best bass players to listen to.
In this podcast you're going to learn:
- Tips for playing in church.
- Why you shouldn’t rely on chord charts
- How to handle the gig environment.
- What to expect from an evangelical megachurch.
- And much, much more!
[ - PODCAST - ]
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I am “in the world, not of the world”. As a church bassist my main reason for being there is to worship Jesus. The rest takes care of itself. To the best of my knowledge all of the worship team members feel the same, have asked Jesus into their hearts and volunteer. Our worship pastor is on staff and I believe he’s paid. Honestly I would feel it was very odd to have a non believer on the team with us. Praying for you.
Breaks my heart that your crew wouldn’t welcome a “non believer” on your team. What if that’s actually the long game relationship that would grow you both? ❤
GREAT SERMON PASTOR IAN!!!
I've been a church musician in the black pentecostal church for my ENTIRE life, and you are spot on that is a vastly different experience than the world of CCM. I must confess that I shared many of the opinions of CMM until I got a call from smaller church who asked me to play FOR THEIR CCM Sunday. All the things you brought out have been my experience. I am now a disciple of the gospel of restraint. I would just remind all who play in the House of God to remember that they are participating in a intimately spiritual and sacred experience and to aways respect it as such.
This was great to listen to. I played in original bands in Australia, moved to the U.S when I met my wife and played in a couple church bands and cover bands. I found the church scene be a very professional and the people to be very genuine and learned a bunch. The cover band scene can be hit and miss but had mostly good experiences. Ian, thank you for delivering such great pod casts both on your own and with Scott. Your professionalism is something that is inspirational.
Agree, in CCM there is a tension between playing to your abilities and honoring the objective of the song -- and ultimately pointing the congregation to God. There is usually some flexibility to stretch the bass part, but we have to walk that line carefully, no pun intended.
I am saving this episode when I can listen in peace! What a great topic. I'm only 5 minutes in and feel like I'm hanging with an old bud
I'm shoulder to shoulder with you, dude! I was a guitar player first (I started Bass guitar just a few years ago to keep a family tradition going). For a whole lot of years of my life my gig was playing at church. Yes, I had to have a 3 inch binder with all the stuff we did but, I was off sheet on 99.8% and I wish the other members of the praise team were the same way. You're absolutely right dude, the reward for all the preparation us musicians go through for the gig the time on stage is the reward!
Probably the single best presentation on the topic of being a musician that I've ever seen/heard. Serve whatever music you're playing. Well done Ian!
I love this episode SO much!! I have played in both/all of the situations you cover and you are absolutely bang on!!
I've been playing drums and bass at an Assemblies of God church since I was 12 in 2015 here in Minnesota, and it's been really interesting hearing your experience. I'm happy to say that the worship leader at my church let's everyone play licks and runs that fit the vibe, and I love that. Even then, sometimes I get bored on stage, but the things it does for a lot of people makes it worth it to me. Also, my church has a weird drinking rule to! To this day, I still find bazaar. But I love seeing the church grow. Godbless!
In LA, I was a church musician, and during the week, I did studio sessions. Church gigs are awesome for keeping up your chops. My old band even got signed to a major label. I got one dollar for all of my work. The pastor got a new Porsche. Besides all the junk that happened, I had a great time playing in that band. Moved to Nashville and played at bars and weddings. Only played with two artists so far. We will see.
22:42 - I would LOVE to memorize my songs for Sundays at church, but we don't get the setlist until Friday most of the time. Now, songs we've played a few times will get memorized, but for the most part, I have charts..
Me too. The latest I've got the set list is 7.30pm on a Saturday night! I play both electric guitar and bass, so the parts that I have to know are more.
I keep copies of the sheets, and we play the songs often enough that I tend to memorize them over time.
@@aikensrus yeah, especially when some of the chord progression, you can see the pattern.
Over the many years I've been playing in bands, I've always strived to play music that engages me. I've done originals, singer/songwriter support, faith, folk, rock, blues, celtic and everthing in between. Always enjoyed playing a variety of music and never turned down an opportunity to play something different. You never know when the "magic" is going to happen. I've had to "kiss a lot of frogs" over the years, but most of the musicians I've encountered brought something that made me a better musician.
Currently playing percussion (cajon, high hat and hand percussion) for a bunch of guys doing the retirement home/villa curcuit (jigs, reels, waltzes, polkas, 20-30-40's, folk and some country) and a fairly straight ahead 70-80-90's rock/bar band. I've enjoyed it all. Recently, I was just approached to play to replace a bassist in a R&B band. Never had before, but there's a first time for everything. Learning new songs like crazy and enjoying the heck out of it.
I'll agree with you about making connections though all different types of musical environments. If you don't get your nose out of joint about a "style" of music or get stuck in one genre, there's alot to learn and love.
Man , so much stuff you say resonates with me. I am 100% on your page. Love listening to you dude. keep it up.
Great information for any musician who plays in the Praise & Worship environment, Thanks.
Cheers Wayne
As a church bassist myself, I’m so glad to see this.
I am so glad I found this! I have been in situations with people who didn’t care and it drives me nuts! I am the same way about wrong notes!
Here's a country song Ian, I think you can identify with. I'm a lot like you and your struggles point of view resonates with me as well. (I'm just a couple of minutes into this video) The song is "Texas Hold'em". It's so we'll written... the point is simple. It brought a few tears. I hope you'll give this song a fair shot.
Great episode Ian. Thought you were right on the money about how playing in a cover band can help you develop as a bass player. You are very comfortable in front of the camera and you had me laughing out loud a couple times. Thanks for all the great content.
In the UK the equivalent of the country music thing is probably blues rock and classic rock in the local ‘pub’
Your take on Church gigs is legit. I didn't start learning until I had to start sight reading from a Hymnal.
Fantastic episode! I did not expect to enjoy that as much as I did. Brilliant insight, as ever Ian, thank you 👍
Fascinating! Thank you. A lot of what you say about the church scene in the US is true here in the UK, but the big difference here is that very few church musicians get paid. I've been playing bass in church gigs for getting on for 50 years. Never got paid but had many of the best musical experiences of my life. Did you mention dynamics? I don't think so... Apologies if you did! Really important in church bands, though. You've got to watch and listen because stuff happens when you're playing in services that no amount of rehearsal can prepare you for. Sometimes you have to drop out altogether. Sometimes you have to play quietly... And, yes, sometimes you have to crescendo and play really loud. It's a big challenge and it doesn't always go right... But when it does, it's hugely satisfying in both musical and spiritual ways. So thanks! Good podcast. (PS: Minneapolis, eh? The only bass gig I ever did there was at Famous Dave's BBQ and Blues. Great fun!)
I'd never thought about getting paid because I'm doing it for Jesus. In Singapore, there's a megachurch that pays for full time musicians. Where I am in Australia, my church usually tip me around Christmas for helping out in the worship team.
This is really helpful. Thanks for all your insight!
Great podcast
I know this is over a year old but man people who read music on a gig. Yuk. When I was still playing I always memorized the entire set list. I might have a note or two on the set list especially if we dropped the song down a half step or something like that just to remind me. No reading on stage!
Brilliant. As always!
@16:20, the wedding where nobody cared... We did a gig like that, our third ever gig as a band, we'd practised and practised, we were tight, and we'd done the set twice before, with good feedback, and then we went to play at a "social club" and most people didn't care whether we were there or not and just talked all the louder to get their conversation across, especially the group at the table up front. It was so bad, our singer forgot the beginning of the first song and had to join in halfway through verse 1.
I got paid for playing at a funeral. First time I've been paid to play, so I'm a professional musician now!
And every time I see some 12-year-old who can slap, tap, hammer, just play better than me, Sting, Paul McC, Flea, I remember that, as Ian says, your job is to play a root note. Listen to the bass on "Moon over Bourbon Street" by Sting, nothing fancy, but it makes the song.
A covers band and church band (along with some open mics) are the 2 I’ve played in. I loved the bit at the end where you said some of the best people and musicians you know came from covers and church bands. Have we met before 😊?
…..Good job on the podcasts. They are fun and I learn a lot listening to you.
This is good advice... the Church stuff can get pretty fraught. I'm certain that there are church worship teams out there that treat their musicians as hired guns (which would be ideal). My experience has been a little bit different...and maybe the difference is is it's a paying gig or a something you're doing "for the Lord" as part of your own offering to God. My two long-term experiences have been the latter, so I never really got paid to do my music ministry stuff, and I was certainly expected to believe and conduct myself as a member of those churches, aligned with their mission statements. In my first experience, it was the church that I grew up in (dad was the pastor!) and I basically learned to play bass on the job. And really, that's where this advice is excellent. I not only had to learn to play, but also had to play with a rotating cast of drummers, guitar players and keyboard players who were sometimes excellent, and sometimes...not. And of course, you never knew how the sound volunteer was going to mix things. My second experience, I was playing with players of a more consistent and pro skill level. We were still volunteers, but it was a greater challenge, and they were holding me to account more for my ability to play. However, now that I've gone from true believer to nonbeliever, I don't know that I could go back to that environment, even for money. But maybe I haven't found the right church (another great point you make).
Marc your musical journey sounds a lot like mine.
However I started out playing clubs and played full time for a while but after getting married got into church and became a believer and now serve in music ministry.
Do you mind if I ask what made you become a non believer?
@@gwheat63 hi Greg, I appreciate your curiosity. It's difficult to point to any single incident or theological quibble. It was more a series of things that when I began to look at them in aggregate, I found I couldn't believe anymore. And it's possible that the biblical/spiritual instruction I received in my formative years, which was very dogmatic, and not open to different perspectives, led me to understand religion on the whole as either-or proposition. Its funny because some things that were dogma did change a little bit around the edges over the years, but you don't notice those things as they are happening. It's only when I reassessed my beliefs that I saw that things that were considered settled interpretation were now being spoken about differently. But anyway, I was always troubled by lack of evidence, but was brought up to believe that my faith needed to be stronger. I also grew up in the middle of the Satanic Panic of the '80s, and have since come to understand that all that was complete BS. And finally, the "science" i learned in school, of young-earth creationism, and uncritical acceptance of the historical books of the Bible as a history of humans on earth didn't stand up to genuine archeological discoveries. Anyway, it was this sort of thing that eventually led me to break ties with religion generally (and Christianity specifically).
Playing bass is my ONly addiction, I would rather play bass than eat!!!!
Jackson Kenneth Smith George Jackson Brenda
This is an untapped resource of great players. I heard a metal head say, "the best musicians are in the churches."
Ian, amazing episode. I've been the bass player at CFC church for 10 years and counting. I work with amazing players, some have been touring artists, a couple are current recording artist. We are held to a very high standard. I hate when I hit a wrong note, just like you. I'm on book, always. We only get the music a few days in advance. OMG the chords in the traditional Hymnals! I'm a metal head, but at church we get to play rock, funk, country, dance, folk, and world. What other gig gives you so many styles to succeed at? Fills and parts go both ways. Root and 5th, but I also get to solo, and make up my own fills as I like. Church music is not boring and it is not easy!
Another extremely enjoyable and informative show. I feel like I'm hanging with a friend everytime. Thank you
I think you're spot on. I hope I equipped the next generation of Christians and musicians to be selfless... to truly love Jesus is to love Him, heaven is a byproduct of a relationship with Jesus. Heaven is nice, Jesus is better.
Hey Ian, This was a great chapter. I am a church musician, mainly in black gospel, but I also play in the CCM/ MegaChurch community. Could you please list the people you had mentioned to check out. I'm having trouble finding them probably due to spelling issues. I would really like to check out the different influences you mentioned. Thanks
Thanks for this Ian. Great subject matter! I totally agree that we MUST care! It's never good to play a wrong note. If we do, we keep moving and get the rest of the song right. But we don't accept it like it's okay. I try to over prepare because by memorizing the tunes, I'm more present in the moment and enjoy what I'm playing so much more. That enjoyment greatly improves the performance, dynamics etc. I play almost exclusively in church and almost never get paid. That being said, I love the people and the challenge of creating the vibe with the rest of the band. One key thing for me is always playing a song in two octave ranges. That one thing makes a simple I, V, VI, IV tune way more interesting. Plus, simple arpeggios make tasty fills that fit right. The church environment has taught me a lot about gain staging, recreating specific tones, time feel and listening the the rest of the band so we sound great together. So much fun! It's the only place where the acoustic guitar player who loves country plays with the electric guitar player who loves jazz, the bass player who's into indie music, the drummer who's a metal head, the keys player who is a Beatles addict and the singer who is classically trained. Love the music, love the hang, if only I got paid...
I play at church, and I’ve only ever played at church. We’re not paid, we do it as a way of serving at the church. Most of us are members, and those that aren’t are regular attendees. We’ve had musicians show up and offer to play, and we always say you are more than welcome to get plugged in and after about 6 months you can try out. They never come back.
Why do they not return?
Such a fun episode, great work. I love people who really really care about what they are doing and you so do. thank you
Hey Ian! Great episode. As a bass player and a minister and a larger church is Dallas, I found this super insightful and inspiring. It was really cool to hear about your experiences and your challenges. Love your lessons!
Thanks for taking the time to listen to it David.
Hahaha, totally had that happen recently. I was sitting in for someone in my friends' yacht rock band; I had to learn like 20 songs in 2 days, and I don't do the book thing. I followed one of the guitarists hands if I blanked on any section. But I thought I chowdered a couple songs, but not a word or look from anyone in the band. They were all very complimentary and I was so hard on myself.
The comment about taking the 100 dollar 70 song gig just had "you'll get paid in experience" vibes all over. It doesn't matter what else you get from it, people can't use that as an excuse to under pay you. You're the one working for them, they're not teaching you. Doesn't matter how in experienced you are, you're still playing the same gig, doing the same job. They're the ones that need you for a LONG set, so you should be decently financially compensated. I'm 26 right now and I wouldn't take that gig for that money
I used to feel this way about money. And while I totally get it, I have had experiences time and time again where when I have invested in something that didn’t pay well upfront, the financial opportunities that it led to were better than I could have ever imagined. I wouldn’t take that gig now… But I’m sure glad I did when I was 26.
@@IanMartinAllison the fact that you said you wouldn't take it now proves what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to make a living same as you, so why shouldn't we be getting paid the same amount for the same job?
A lot of it does come down to personal circumstances as well. As I said in 26 now, but even though I'm considered "young", I live pay check to pay check and can't afford to do something that doesn't pay what I'm worth, but even so, I don't think someone's ability to take an under paid gig should justify the fact that people are offering under paid gigs. It's like the minimum wage argument. Just because someone is able to live on pennies, doesn't mean you should only offer pennies to someone you want to work for you. Pay what the job is worth regardless of the individual, because its the same job and same worth regardless
You're the Man Ian. I love that you are still that 13 year old little boy 😎 You really helped me with this one. Luv you Guys
You're an insightful guy. Very good. Only point on books and pads, be aware old people can't remember loads so props are necessary
Been playing in church worship for about 8 years.And you can get into a boredom rut if ya let it happen.ya have to remember were serving the people in a worship service.I really put a lot into tone and accuracy and timing and locking in with the drums.I have come to use my fretless jazz with this music and I can layer it in at least for me this way.Lots of good players and have learned a lot.
Michael League would say yes, esp. in Dallas
About 20:00 to 25:00, AMEN!!!!!
I love playing on a worship team! We play a different song every week in all kinds of genres and it has never been boring. And I’ve never had to play just the root note in the ten years that I’ve been on bass ( coming from guitar)! I play fills when I can, dive bombs, walking lines, slap. It’s not the ‘50s dude.
Hey. I play bass in church worship in the UK - it's my main genre. Thanks for covering this. So great to hear you've had some really positive experiences working together with people in this space :-)
At least he doesn't call you a Yank. Lol