Seriously slept on, one of the best groups ever, I recommend all the stuff from the 60s in reprint or whatever form you can get and you will become a fan.
@@ooneybird27 I've also seen some people say he abused while writing those comics. I'm not sure how reliable it is but they also said it explains why he was so strict at Marvel. What do you think?
I got to work with Jim and he was a great guy, I know that people think he was rough and a bit nasty but if you were a professional he treated you like a professional. But he truly loves the art of the American comic. I think it will take someone like Jim to save the modern comic market
I’m almost 60 years old and have been reading the LSH since I was a kid. It is, and always will be, my all-time favorite superhero team comic book. The runs in the mid-60s, the mid to late 70s, and the mid to late 80s are the standout eras for me. I’m going back and reading the Mark Waid stuff now and am enjoying it.
My favorite part of the 60's book was the letters column. The ships, character suggestions, and plot corrections were a joy. Fandom culture was been around forever.
My brother and his friends, when I was maybe 5 years old, used to take turns buying Adventure comics with the Legion and handing them around the neighborhood. Years before Gwen Stacy died, the death of Ferro Lad (written by very young Jim Shooter) was startling.
My favorite Legion era was the silver age stories by Edmond Hamilton. The stories were dramatically stilted a bit by 60s editorial restraint, but there's still such imagination, and they laid down a very strong sci-fi tradition that has never left the Legion. People today forget that Hamilton had earlier in his life been the co-creator of the space opera sub-genre in the 1920s (no Star Wars without him!) and was a borderline legend as a pulp writer. He was the #3 "Weird Tales" writer after Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft. He did stuff with the Legion that nobody else in comics would try in those days, including occasionally killing members or giving them bad outcomes (a trope young Jim Shooter continued even after Hamilton retired to return to prose fiction).
Ever since I watched the LOSH animated series as a young kid (yeah, I'm a pretty young fan for a series as long as the Legion), the Legion has been my favorite team. I've been making my way through all the Legion comics, all the way from Adventure 247 to Five Years Later. I really love the early 80s era especially, with the Great Darkness Saga being one of my favorite stories for the Legion, but I also really love the rebooted Legion from 1994. I feel like the best version of the Legion would cherry-pick the greatest elements from all the different iterations the Legion universe has gone through!
I'm only at 13:45 where they are talking about the x-men so I don't know if it will be mentioned later but both Storm and Nightcrawler were originally put forward for the Legion.
Man, what a blast this was! Joe hit the nail on the head near the end, when he talked about the Legion being this hopeful, heroic idea of a bunch of folks being inspired to do good by the legend of Superman.
It was 1971 and DC expanded their comics from 32 to 48 pages. Adventure Comics and Superboy reprinted early Legion stories followed by a few 100-Page Super-Spectacular issues. I'd read Legion stories a few years earlier in Adventure and Action Comics, and the reprints from Superboy #147, but this was my first experience with those early Legion stories on somewhat of a regular basis.
I really enjoyed that 64 page Legion reprint in Adventure Comics that had a huge Legion Of Superheroes logo on it. It was Adventure Comics # 403. Supergirl had taken over Adventure Comics and DC interrupted her run with this issue that reprinted the long saga of the death of Lightning Lad and return of Lightning Lad.
The Keith Giffen Legion poster from the 80s is still my favorite birthday gift. I spent many hours, days, years trying to identify all the characters. In the 80s DC released several digests of Silver Age Legion stories which helped fill in some of the blanks. Just recently I started on the omnibus and have almost completed my goal 36 years later. I know I could have gone online to do this but what's the fun in that?
I dont mean to be so off topic but does someone know of a tool to get back into an Instagram account? I was stupid lost my account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
@Sullivan Alvin Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
Once... one of my favorite teams, particularly with Superboy. Loved the Grell run, the Cockrum issues, and of course, the Levitz/Giffen run. Can't wait to listen to this one!!
We need Hickman, Geoff Johns,and Tomasi all on a legion title Hickman-Legion of Superheroes Geoff Johns-The Legion Tomasi-Superboy Give legion the green Lantern rebirth treatment please
The legion is really a very underrated team. Their whole concept of a group of weird alien heroes who live incredible sci-fy, fantasy adventures in the future is incredible (it's basically x-men + star trek). I really hope that someday in the future someone like Geoff Johns (who from what I heard is huge legion fan) get the chance to write the characters. I also hope that they get adapted in their own movie or tv series, in the same way characters like the Doom Patrol or Stargirl were recently.
I prefer an animated Legion that looks more like they were in JLU, or like the Young Justice style. I really wish they would have a nice long run of say 50-60 episodes to build it up from the origin and develop characters over time
Excellent retrospective! As a child of the 1960/70s I read many of these stories off the rack and appreciate the research you've done for accuracy. One thing, though the 1989 "Five Years Later" story line by Keith Giffen/Bierbaums was not "my" Legion - jettisoning any typical fan-boy resentment I may have had from the change itself - I found that storyline fascinating, well done, and now consider the first 38 issues as one of my top 10 Legion stories. I file it under a big "What if?" I even re-read it a few years ago and it holds up very well. Regardless, I was happy when they introduced "Batch SW6" and what would become "The Legionnaires" series. I think that reboot was very faithful to the original, and remains underrated.
I've been a Legion fan since I got into DC. Its one of the more interesting and unique corners of the DC universe. I really like the Levitz/Giffen runs in the 80s. The post zero hour run is fun too, and I don't hate the threeboot run either. Its just a shame Bendis got his hands on the legion. Brainiac 5 and Wildfire are two of my favorite characters..oh and Dream girl.
I think I can shed a light on where things went wrong. I've been reading the Legion since 1963... and there was a story where several of the Legion ladies go out and just go shopping. They run into trouble, of course, but it's small time trouble that gets a little out of hand, but ends up resolved without big fight scenes or crises.... it was a superhero 'slice of life' story. That was what made the Legion different... they had lives. They did things that were just regular people things. They had down time. It wasn't crisis to crisis to crisis. But in 1986.. DC became ALL about crises and they just kept happening and the Legion got dragged into it and became the same - I mean, Giffen BLEW UP THE MOON! The 2000s (threeboot) was about bored teens in a "utopia" who wanted to rebel. That got axed with the entire Legion being shut down (literally) for a reboot into the godawful Justice League 3000 (also by Giffen). Then they hint at the Legion coming back for 5 years, reintroduce a surprisingly brain damaged Saturn Girl who gets ERASED in Doomsday Clock... And now we have a new Legion that's half Booster Gold and half... I don't know what. The Legion's success was because it WAS simple and optimistic. I mean, come on - Bouncing Boy? He was the ultimate mary sue - the chubby guy who gets to be a hero AND gets the girl(s)... but we could relate to him. I still have my flight ring. I still have hope. But it does get harder with time to hold onto it.
I agree that the Slice-Of-Life stories made the Legion great. One I remember is when Cosmic Boy and Night Girl breakup because he doesn't want her to put herself in danger. Cosmic Boy can't forget her (on a date with another woman he calls her "Lydda") and returns to save her from an attack (it occurred just as the Sun was rising) and they reconcile. Another is when Bouncing Boy is depressed because his wife defends him from an attack (he didn't have his powers at that time). Later, he is confronted by some thugs and defends himself with some rubber balls by throwing them against the wall behind them. The balls hit their knives (covering the blades) and then knocked them out (he still had his skills in angles and trajectories from his time as Bouncing Boy). This returned during in the "Legionnaires" series (which featured teenage versions of the Legion members). One story I liked was when a group of Legionnaires decided to get together at a resort in Atlantis. Lots of nice character moments (such Matter-Eater Lad shows he's interested in dating Shrinking Violet and he received the "I have a boyfriend" speech and his response is something like "Of course.").
I agree a lot with what you guys are saying . But I actually like the waid legion run. It's not his best work however I think it's a good entry point for legion. I also think legion of 3 worlds is really good.
Legion is awesome for the costume designs alone. I had to go back and look at X-Men #107 to see how direct the nod to the Legion was in that book and it was a lot closer than I remembered.
I loved the legion when Paul levitz was writing a long story arc and I liked then when the legionnaires were introduced, but other than that they have not been the same since. Even Bendis relaunch/retcon doesn't work
Which, iirc, was done by Johns and Perez. Amazing what top level talent can do. I used to say back in the 80s that George Perez brought such a dynamic flow to a story that virtually anything he would do would be successful. Hence, New Teen Titans, Crisis, Wonder Woman, etc. Not to mention a little something called the Avengers back in the day, too.
Perch, great video. The Levitz era in the 80's is my favorite; Earth War, Great Darkness Saga, War with the Legion of Super-Villains, the Universo Project, the Final Confrontation with the Time Trapper, etc -- just too many epic storylines to mention. I totally agree with you guys about Jim Shooter's run though - he's the guy who really turned it into something new, special, and exciting. There were a handful of writers that seemed to oscillate off and the book in the late 70's, like Starlin, Conway, Thomas, and Levitz. But once Levitz became the stable ongoing writer (with occasional writing help from Giffen) it felt like he really started to build a definitive vision of the DCU's future using the foundation that Big Jim laid down a decade beforehand. I get that some people don't like DC Silver Age comics - but I'm one of those guys who even likes even those old school original issues. Are they essential Legion reading to a casual Legion fan? Probably not, but they're cheesy fun and I think the art in those Silver Age issues is very nice. Poor Lightning Lad had a hard time back then, he lost his arm, died, and was brought back to life. Not to mention that later in the 80's, he goes insane and cracks under leadership pressure, fathers Validus, and has to confront his insane brother, Lightning Lord. He's had it harder than anyone. LOL By the way - I did not know that Levitz originally intended for Sensor Girl to be Supergirl, instead of Jeckie, but editorial vetoed it. But that makes so much sense now. That fits in hindsight because at the time it seemed so stupid that Jeckie's powers magically went from "illusion casting" to "omnipotence" overnight. I never cared much for Waid's run - it just didn't feel like the Legion to me. I actually liked Levitz's return 10 years or so ago, although admittedly, it didn't hit the same highs as his original run. I also kind of liked Niciezia's and Pete Woods' Legion Lost. I love the Great Darkness Saga, but I actually recommend new fans read a few other stories before that, to get their feet wet. I think GDS has a bit more impact if the reader knows who the characters are first. There's an awesome Elseworld's story by Mark Farmer and Alan Davis called Superboy's Legion that's actually a pretty good introduction for new readers. I love Johns and Perez's Legion of 3 Worlds; but it's definitely not new Legion reader friendly. Bendis' run is awful. Just stay away. The art is very nice - but there's too many character changes and too much nonsensical babbling and annoying jibber-jabber. It's not really the Legion. Just avoid it. Heck, you're better off reading Legionnaires from the 90's, or even the milquetoast Cary Bates Action Comics era than this current one. At least Cary's stories make sense.
"Poor Lightning Lad had a hard time back then, he lost his arm, died, and was brought back to life. " You forgot to mention that during the "Five Years Later" era it was revealed that Lightning Lad never came back to life. He was replaced by Chameleon Boy's pet Proty. So from the mid sixties to the early 90's it was not really Lightning Lad in all those Legion stories.
Did anyone read or remember the Mark Farmer / Alan Davis elseworlds "Superboy's Legion". Farmer wrote and inked the two issue story and Alan Davis did, what I felt, were fantastic redesigns of the outfits but keeping with the feel of the originals he pulled from.
I have a lot of fond memories of watching the cartoon as a kid with my dad. He was a huge fan back in the 70s and these past couple of years has REALLY gotten me into the team. It's a crying shame that there hasn't been a movie based on the team yet, although based on how most of DC's movies have turned out this past decade maybe that's for the best. I disagree with your points regarding the Waid run but it was clearly cut off before it could really blossom into something special. The Bendis analogue to JJ Abrams seems pretty spot on but the first volume of his felt to me more like Star Trek 2009 than Rise of Skywalker and I hope he has enough clout there to really have a substantive run that goes new places and brings the team back into the limelight. Hickman on Legion is of course the dream writer once he's done with X-Men but we'll see what happens. The DnA run is probably my favorite from what I've read (it's a CRIME more of that isn't collected in trades) and Legion Lost especially is possibly one of my favorite comics ever. Even with some disagreements this was still a fantastic deep dive into a hidden gem in DC history. Long live the Legion!
The Legion was damaged when John B. determined Superman was never a Superboy. So they tried the pocket universe deal, then Mon-el was turned into Valor and it all died with Zero Hour and never came up with anything I cared about. The Legion was about fun and a bright future for man. The five year time pause while the UP fell apart and wars happened between member planets and the "grim and gritty" universe that resulted kill off the title.
agree with most all of this, but I did like the run in the Threeboot with Supergirl. Some of their sociological choices I could have done without but that whole Superigrl arc was really good to me
I agree that loss of Superboy led to the end of the Legion. I don't fault the Legion's Creative Teams for the problems, they were dealing with problems that were out of their control. I think the Pocket Universe Superboy would have worked if it had been allowed to stand. Unfortunately, it wasn't allowed to stand and that led to years of having to fix problems leading up to a complete reboot of the Legion. I've compared what was done to The Legion with the writers of "Star Trek" being told "James T. Kirk never existed, deal with it."
Modern fans would probably be shocked to know that Legion of Super Heroes and Teen Titans were DC's top selling titles! And really the only books challenging Marvel back in the day. Good days! The Great Darkness Saga was awesome! I recently bought a grab box that had the Giffen series. It might be alright if you sit and read it. But it doesn't work on a dynamic level. A lot of subplots that don't seem to matter.
I love that you did this. I grew up loving the Legion in the 70’s and 80’s. On the other hand, my favorite series are the more eclectic team books that are less popular anyway.
The Levitz run, I loved the saga of Cham losing his powers and having to go to his home world to get his powers back. All that came out of it changed the character and he was one of my favorites (much like Vision in Avengers until Byrne undid him). I cringe that every reboot has to play up Chameleon Boy as this wide eyed innocent and background character. I agree that Crisis eliminating Superboy just sent things on the wrong path. Valor the series (anyone remember Babbage, his A.I.?), retconning Time Trapper, all of that just to fix what should not have been broken. :P Last note, the 5 years later arc started out strong, but fell apart quickly. I liked the world they established (KENT SHAKESPEARE RULED!), but sigh, nothing ever lasts with the Legion. The Levitz return and retcon was not the same magic.
I remember that story about Cham. I think that was right after they revealed that RJ Brande was actually a Durlan stuck in human form and he went back with Cham to Durla while Cham tried to get his powers back. Good times. That's when Levitz was really cooking.
I don't fault the Creative Team for the issues with the "Five Years Later..." era. What hurt was just as they were getting started they were mandated to eliminate Superboy completely. It led to the replacement of Superboy with Valor and Supergirl with Laurel Gand. That was the point where everything started to fall apart.
I've always loved the Legion. The concept and the characters that is. The property has rarely been well executed IMO and hasn't really lived up to it's potential save some brief periods here and there. Loved this video. Thanks as always for great content.
Marvel is xmen for me. LSH is Dc for me. You guys spoke of universo... is this villain the same villain in the 4 part Universo project? The rich history you guys conversed blew mind! Again a wonderful topic. Thanks as well for illuminating for me Shooter's brilliance making LSH as a teen/young man. Be safe. Mabuhay!
When I got into DC, i started looking at post crisis(and 0 hour) stuff and immediately went to Legion. Time Trapper and Mordu(+LOSV) are great villians IMO
I truly love the 5YL period. I think for all it's "Grim & Gritty" trappings I find it to be quite inspirational with the "Getting the Band back together" and showing the hope the Legion can bring. Having said that, I think of it as a long "ElseWorlds" story and think with Zero Hour they should've just done what they eventually did with the retroboot. I bought the Omni and recommend you both get it too!(I selfishly want you to read it and do a retrospective!). The Zero Hour Legion started nicely but I tuned in and out until the DnA run, which I enjoyed a lot(I agree with Joe C, you really should read Lost AND Worlds together). Didnt like the threeboot at all and am only still getting the current series because I committed to a year.
The first Fatal Five story was my introduction to the Legion and fed my burgeoning love of comics. I will never forget the death of Ferro Lad and how it shook me up. I still suspect he was intended to die from the start. And when I was a teenager, those female Legion costumes were a joy to behold.
Bendis and Sook’s run is looking forward. Read the outline Bendis prepared for Sook about “looking forward, because looking backwards is death...” People try to say the past version are better because they did the opposite. But if you go back and look at the old issues there are tons of examples of tons of standing around and talking... This is the first truly original take since the inception of the concept of the Legion.
Really enjoyed this retrospective Perch. One of your best ones. I remember when the Legion was fun, and it kept things moving. Wish Levitz still had control of the franchise. But with all the revisionism, it's too confusing, and I don't think what Bendis has done, has helped. Wish they could have revamped the Legion ANOTHER 1000 years into the future, and seen what happened with the Legion continuing on, and with the Legions' descendants. Now, that would have been introducing. Do think the Superboy death i the mid eighties was a high point, and incredibly moving story, but I didn't agree with Byrne's rewrite.
My dad was a Legion fan as a kid and told me about the series. When we got older we started a project to buy every main-line Legion comic (Which is surprisingly affordable compared to the cost of other comics back issues). I am now the proud owner of every major Legion issue from 1958 to 1989. Stopped there because the 5 years later comics were garbage and I wanted to remember the Legion when they were great. Actually Legionaires wasn't terrible so I might go back and pick up those at a later time.
The post zero-hour Legion Of Superheroes and Legionnaires comics were great. Very respectful of the previous thirty years of stories while at the same time making its own continuity.
Excellent, love the deep dive, into a series i kept seeing at the second hand stores till i decided to pick up a few issues of the levitz/Giffen run, did not regret and went back for more.
Always loved the LSH. I jumped onboard with the Great Darkness Saga up to the Legion of 3 Worlds. I loved catching up on previous stuff with back-issues from the 70s and those old small thick digest books with all the old 60s stories in them. The more recent stuff...not so much into, unfortunately.
One of my FAVORITES as evidenced by my screen name, one of The Legion's most powerful villains! Don't forget The IMPERIAL GUARD who fought The X-Men were thinly disguised Legionaires! JIM SHOOTER NOTE- After arriving at Marvel, Shooter wrote DAREDEVIL and wrote about 30 issues of THE AVENGERS!!
I actually started reading Legion of Super-heroes a couple years ago just to understand why it was a big deal why they were coming back & ended up loving the pathos, & characters provided. It was essentially the X-men but had a more justified reason on not interacting with the larger DCU. My favorite version of the team is the Reboot version (the 1994 version to be accurate).
@@sonic31century1 yeah it was too bad but that was around the time DC was just winging it with characters due to Infinite Crisis being on the horizon. I'm at least thankful Threeboot turned out to be pretty good (for the first 36 issues anyway).
My first exposure to the Legion was issue 1 of Vol 4. What some call the dreaded "Five Years Later" time jump. I was first seeing these (ex) legionnaires as Rokk, Salu, Reep, and Jo and only by careful reading was able to 'detective out' who they used to be. And while not a popular time period, it's still my favorite era of the Legion.
i used to be a huge legion fan but then after the adult lgion they rebooted the book in rapid succession, and i judst said i just cant go up that retelling of the legion origin hill yet again. they had a legion cartoon and it was pretty good. the great darkness saga i would love to get that in a dc deluxe edition. and ppl dont understand that the great darkness saga was up there with the judas contract, and the dark phoenix saga . and the art was held up there with george perez and john byrne at the time. i liked the adult legion run but omni is huge you just cant pick it up and read it you have to prop it up on something. oh also the legion really embrasses the barberella sci fi costume aesthetic in the late 60s early 70s. you got some far out looks. good vid gents.
DC keeps screwing up the "Legion Of Superheroes." The first screw up was ignoring the pocket universe solution John Byrne created to explain the Legion. It was revealed that the Legion never went to the real past of the DC universe to meet Superboy. Instead they went to a pocket universe that had a Superboy. This Superboy was the one that went to the 30th century. This preserved the Legion's history post-crisis. Pretty quickly they threw this out so that it was Valor (Mon-el) who the Legion went back in time to recruit into the team. Superboy did not exist. The second DC screw up towards the Legion was rebooting the post-Zero Hour Legion. During the mini-series Zero - Hour, the "Five Years Later" adult Legion merged their bodies with the teenage clone Legionnaires. The universe ended and was reborn. Now DC retold Legion continuity in two comics: "Legion Of Superheroes" and Legionnaires." Beginning with the zero issues of these comics Legion stories and history were told from the beginning. The previous thirty years never happened. The post Zero-Hour legion lasted until about 2004 when it was rebooted again. DC threw out these two great solutions to any continuity problems the Legion had in relation to the rest of the DC universe.
@Ryan Wilson Yes I have read L.E.G.I.O.N. and its follow up series R.E.B.E.L.S.. It came out of the mini series"Invasion." A group of aliens who had been imprisoned by the Khuds banned together as a supergroup. Braniac 5's ancestor led the group. As the series went on, more ties to the Legion were shown. It can be read on its own, though.
Got to agree with you Sonicman. I'm an old fart and I've followed the LSH since pretty much the beginning. The pocket universe solution was neat, clean and perfect. the teenage clone stuff left me cold. Some of the other many reboots (are we up to 8 or 9 yet?) had interesting ideas. Tenzil (Matter Eater Lad) as a government agent/troubleshooter or Chuck (Bouncing Boy) becoming the team technician. LLtL
Perch and Joe, you've inspired me - I just scored all three Silver Age Omnibus volumes in a very good deal on eBay. All will, needless to say, be on my 2021 reading list!
The only part of the Bendis 2019/2020 run is Ryan Sook's awesome redesigns. I love seeing alien characters looking more alien and futuristic. The actual story is completely awful. Not only does no one on the team have any chemistry or even really a desire to work together at all, but Bendis has no concept of continuity. Even with just a year-long run, he retconed his own title like 3 or 4 times. Mon-El went from being a Daxamite to being Jon Kent's descendent; Invisible Kid was Lyle Norg, but then a few issues later he was Jacque Foccart. Bendis completely butchered the Legion.
LoSH. One of my all time favorites, at 6 my grand father have me a bunch of ils comics (he got them so kids would stay quiet in his barber shop) I remember in the begining the original 3 and others had a lot of Pink, purple in their costume wich except for Magnus robot fighter , no one had .They had L S pets lol, LSubs, even a LofRejects. It was young and i guess for the young mostly. But some stories could compete with JLA. They had so many heroes that THEY could send out the perfect members To fight bad bad people. Superboy and Mon El des interesting as they were equal but poor Mon El des alergic To lead. Ultra Boy was one my faves cause he was like Superboy,Mon El but only one power at a time, this made him cool cause he had To think before doing. Compared to others they had a lot of girls LOL some had really weird powers like Boncing Boy. Yep a précurseur To X men and until X men came back from that island with new members my faverite. Thanks guys, just loved the LSH. ( not all reboots tho)
When you mention Saturn Girl is a Jean Grey type - true. That at least the X-men lifted stuff from the Legion, I'd agree. I watched the short lived TV series on stream, and I got interested in some of the background that was hinted in show (but couldn't be actively portrayed because kids' show aimed at like 10 - 14 yr olds) It turns out in a version that might be retconned, or being re-built to at some point down the line; there was a triangle with Saturn Girl, the original leader of the Legion - who she gave her first time to but was an ex - and Lightning Lad (who she eventually marries and has kids with) So it's very much like the Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine problem. Didn't know that Triplicate Girl had a crush on Superman/boy, but I do know that in that same (retconned?) continuity she does get into a relationship/marries bouncing boy. (Think it might've been too on the nose to include a baby, but that's just me) Personally, I think Kara fit the legion really well, I'm not exactly clear on why she had to die (other than competing with her more popular cousin and tanking interest for convolution) I always thought they could do better for her character. She could run with a counter to some of his more pacifist ideals, that didn't break, but could bend his moral code against power usage and the reasoning behind it. Become a challenge to make him question, but not be broken down by her debating. Like he pointed out in the Animated Justice League against Darkseid, there's a reason he holds back as much as he does, but Kara wasn't raised like that. They are cousins, so similarities shine through and they could rebound off each other's points like family should. She could/should idolize him to some extent, but eventually come to realize her views differ and THAT's how she steps from his shadow like she should. To become the hero she can be, rather than just a generic female copy. You could even mark her the more aggressive fighter overall because she was slated/trained to be Kal's protector, so her views would naturally differ and then it's about finding a balance he can live with, while also stepping into the role she was meant to fill to some extent. (I know he doesn't really need it, but that could be another interesting family argument between them) I'd be interested in a comic that fleshed out these guys, and continued the story to define certain points. Let them grow into the role of galactic protectors that can have Superman's back. Full stop. Show that they can be what he meant the legion to become - even if I think it's a better option to just full out make Superman the god that DC wants him to be. He's genetically related to one, and Superman prime is one, so it's not out of the cards he can be effectively immortal. Doesn't mean he has to be involved in every storyline - The Legion was as far as I understand it, a promise of legacy in protection for all worlds that he'd united. So while he can go off to other galaxies in time and help the farther reaches * while returning every so often to recharge with that yellow Sun so he doesn't lose the immortality point * the legion will hold down the fort in this universe. Or something along those lines. The characters did have a LOT of potential, and it's one of the more interesting ideas for a series. Especially because it WASN'T dystopian, and everything wasn't sunshine and peaches. I think the second season of the show buggered up a bit with that Superboy clone that was immune to Kryptonite but became an edgelord. There wasn't much else they could do because they jumped the gun a few years and skipped a lot of character growth. Would not mind another go at it though. They might have gone that route because animation is expensive, and they weren't expecting a long run.
In the late 90's I had to sell my X-Men to pay bills. I picked up LSH around 2000 with Abnett/Lanning. Now between Omnibuses, Archives, spin-offs and floppies from The number 259 to today, I have everything. And it's waaaaay cheaper than X-Men.
The Legion has always been my favorite super hero group. Despite the lame depictions on Supergirl, I would like to see a well written series or movie based on those characters.
One thing I did like was the clip I saw of Brainiac 5 from "Supergirl" where they unleash him. He's terrified of what's about to happen, trying to stop what's going to happen, and when he was unleashed it was shocking to see just how dangerous he actually is.
Holy crap, awesome upload! I'm a (slight) Legion of Heroes fan, so I'm looking forward to this! Thanks for this Perch! By the way I hope you don't mind, but I tweeted out a link to this video
Thank you! For this video I put it in a few feed services to get more coverage/eyes on it. Joe is amazing in his knowledge and I wanted to get more eyes on it. Usually that doesn't work but today looks like it did...
LSH fans seem to be tje most hardcore fandom. I was at the Baltimore Comicon around 2007 and Jim Shooter and. Barry Kitson had a huge line of Legion fans lined up to see them.
Our LSH group on Facebook is the largest Legion group in existence. Jim Shooter was a member of Interlac' as was Paul Levitz' Mark Waid and the Bierbaums. If you love the Legion' you'll love our group.
The 70s have been the best era of Legions Of Superheroes. Timberwolf with his „demon eyes“ and „devil horn hairs“ is my absolute favorite, but most underrated.
Golly, I wish I had been invited to talk about this topic. The Legion is, after all, kinda my jam. In fact, for my own channel I’ve been working on a Legion of Super-Reboots series, inspired by Perch's similar series on the many Avengers reboots and relaunches. And, in that sense, even the first Legion story in Adventure #247 was a reboot, as it had at least three and maybe four precursor tales, three of them for sure written by Otto Binder.
The early growth of the Legion can indeed be said to have been an outgrowth of the fans. In fact, many of the heroes, both on the team proper and in their orbit of supporting players, were developed directly from suggestions sent in by fans in the letter column's “Bits of Legionnaire Business” column. That was, of course, a thing comics could do then without incurring the risk of a lawsuit.
Ultra Boy was not an “as it turns out he's from the 30th century” character. He appears first in the SUPERBOY title because the Legion had not yet been given its own series at that point. But he was a Legion character from the future from the very start, his trip to the present being immediately revealed as a Legion initiation test.
thank you for this...been collecting them my whole life, 70's till now....whats your thoughts on LEGION LOST, its my 2nd favorite story arch next to THE DARKNESS SAGA !
Spot on regarding the comment on the Big 2 constantly trying to reconcile the past. It’s like trying to drive while looking out your rear view mirror and then wondering why you’re always running into 💩.
The Legion of Super Villains were established in "Adult Legion" stories in Superman and Action. Then when they appeared in their own origin story, it was a "whoa" moment for sure. Funny thing, I've reread that particular story "The Colossal Failure/School for Super-Villains" a good dozen times and just realized today that the whole premise of it was flawed. The bad guys extort Colossal Boy to get information on Legion training procedures when they already had, in Nemesis Kid, someone who had been through the process himself.
The most underrated comic book superhero team. What a mythology. The Star Trek of comics.
Seriously slept on, one of the best groups ever, I recommend all the stuff from the 60s in reprint or whatever form you can get and you will become a fan.
When I was a kid, Legion of Superheroes was my favorite comic. I thought that Jim Shooter was the best Legion writer.
And Swan the best artist.
Not bad for a kid.
I still think the stuff Jim Shooter did is still the best, only Levitz's run even comes close.
@@ooneybird27 I've also seen some people say he abused while writing those comics. I'm not sure how reliable it is but they also said it explains why he was so strict at Marvel. What do you think?
I got to work with Jim and he was a great guy, I know that people think he was rough and a bit nasty but if you were a professional he treated you like a professional. But he truly loves the art of the American comic. I think it will take someone like Jim to save the modern comic market
I’m almost 60 years old and have been reading the LSH since I was a kid. It is, and always will be, my all-time favorite superhero team comic book. The runs in the mid-60s, the mid to late 70s, and the mid to late 80s are the standout eras for me. I’m going back and reading the Mark Waid stuff now and am enjoying it.
My favorite part of the 60's book was the letters column. The ships, character suggestions, and plot corrections were a joy. Fandom culture was been around forever.
My brother and his friends, when I was maybe 5 years old, used to take turns buying Adventure comics with the Legion and handing them around the neighborhood. Years before Gwen Stacy died, the death of Ferro Lad (written by very young Jim Shooter) was startling.
I grew up reading my Mom's Legion comics from the sixties, which got me into the medium so the LoSH made me a second-generation fan.
My favorite Legion era was the silver age stories by Edmond Hamilton. The stories were dramatically stilted a bit by 60s editorial restraint, but there's still such imagination, and they laid down a very strong sci-fi tradition that has never left the Legion. People today forget that Hamilton had earlier in his life been the co-creator of the space opera sub-genre in the 1920s (no Star Wars without him!) and was a borderline legend as a pulp writer. He was the #3 "Weird Tales" writer after Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft. He did stuff with the Legion that nobody else in comics would try in those days, including occasionally killing members or giving them bad outcomes (a trope young Jim Shooter continued even after Hamilton retired to return to prose fiction).
If you've never read any of Hamilton's SF, check out "The Inn Outside the World".
Ever since I watched the LOSH animated series as a young kid (yeah, I'm a pretty young fan for a series as long as the Legion), the Legion has been my favorite team. I've been making my way through all the Legion comics, all the way from Adventure 247 to Five Years Later. I really love the early 80s era especially, with the Great Darkness Saga being one of my favorite stories for the Legion, but I also really love the rebooted Legion from 1994. I feel like the best version of the Legion would cherry-pick the greatest elements from all the different iterations the Legion universe has gone through!
My favorite comic book series/ team of all time.
Dawnstar and Shadow Lass are my favorite Legion members!
They're both great characters!
I'm only at 13:45 where they are talking about the x-men so I don't know if it will be mentioned later but both Storm and Nightcrawler were originally put forward for the Legion.
I never got into DC Comics but I should have been a fan of this because of the fantastic costume designs and alien concepts and architectures.
Man, what a blast this was! Joe hit the nail on the head near the end, when he talked about the Legion being this hopeful, heroic idea of a bunch of folks being inspired to do good by the legend of Superman.
It was 1971 and DC expanded their comics from 32 to 48 pages. Adventure Comics and Superboy reprinted early Legion stories followed by a few 100-Page Super-Spectacular issues. I'd read Legion stories a few years earlier in Adventure and Action Comics, and the reprints from Superboy #147, but this was my first experience with those early Legion stories on somewhat of a regular basis.
I really enjoyed that 64 page Legion reprint in Adventure Comics that had a huge Legion Of Superheroes logo on it. It was Adventure Comics # 403. Supergirl had taken over Adventure Comics and DC interrupted her run with this issue that reprinted the long saga of the death of Lightning Lad and return of Lightning Lad.
The Keith Giffen Legion poster from the 80s is still my favorite birthday gift. I spent many hours, days, years trying to identify all the characters. In the 80s DC released several digests of Silver Age Legion stories which helped fill in some of the blanks. Just recently I started on the omnibus and have almost completed my goal 36 years later. I know I could have gone online to do this but what's the fun in that?
Firstly, The CW's Series take on Starfinger was Godly... XD
I like comics chats on RUclips from people who actually read comics. Thank you Perch & Friend
I dont mean to be so off topic but does someone know of a tool to get back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid lost my account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
@Matteo Brayden instablaster :)
@Sullivan Alvin Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Sullivan Alvin it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thank you so much, you saved my ass !
@Matteo Brayden you are welcome :)
Once... one of my favorite teams, particularly with Superboy. Loved the Grell run, the Cockrum issues, and of course, the Levitz/Giffen run. Can't wait to listen to this one!!
We need Hickman, Geoff Johns,and Tomasi all on a legion title
Hickman-Legion of Superheroes
Geoff Johns-The Legion
Tomasi-Superboy
Give legion the green Lantern rebirth treatment please
I like this idea.
The legion is really a very underrated team. Their whole concept of a group of weird alien heroes who live incredible sci-fy, fantasy adventures in the future is incredible (it's basically x-men + star trek). I really hope that someday in the future someone like Geoff Johns (who from what I heard is huge legion fan) get the chance to write the characters.
I also hope that they get adapted in their own movie or tv series, in the same way characters like the Doom Patrol or Stargirl were recently.
Anybody remember watching the cartoon show Legion of Super Heroes?
I did
Fun times
I watched it, but it was too much like Teen Titans for my liking.
I prefer an animated Legion that looks more like they were in JLU, or like the Young Justice style. I really wish they would have a nice long run of say 50-60 episodes to build it up from the origin and develop characters over time
@@TammyBeth1015 hopefully young justice phantoms will do them justice
I did, thought it was ok but when Star finger showed up it sold me on the rest of the show
Excellent retrospective! As a child of the 1960/70s I read many of these stories off the rack and appreciate the research you've done for accuracy. One thing, though the 1989 "Five Years Later" story line by Keith Giffen/Bierbaums was not "my" Legion - jettisoning any typical fan-boy resentment I may have had from the change itself - I found that storyline fascinating, well done, and now consider the first 38 issues as one of my top 10 Legion stories. I file it under a big "What if?" I even re-read it a few years ago and it holds up very well. Regardless, I was happy when they introduced "Batch SW6" and what would become "The Legionnaires" series. I think that reboot was very faithful to the original, and remains underrated.
I've been a Legion fan since I got into DC. Its one of the more interesting and unique corners of the DC universe. I really like the Levitz/Giffen runs in the 80s. The post zero hour run is fun too, and I don't hate the threeboot run either. Its just a shame Bendis got his hands on the legion. Brainiac 5 and Wildfire are two of my favorite characters..oh and Dream girl.
Long Live the Legion!
Still my second favorite team comic…..my favorite was all star squadron
I still want to see Jonathan Hickman writing the LoSH.
No
@@thecatsofva Didn't ask for your opinion.
I think I can shed a light on where things went wrong. I've been reading the Legion since 1963... and there was a story where several of the Legion ladies go out and just go shopping. They run into trouble, of course, but it's small time trouble that gets a little out of hand, but ends up resolved without big fight scenes or crises.... it was a superhero 'slice of life' story.
That was what made the Legion different... they had lives. They did things that were just regular people things. They had down time. It wasn't crisis to crisis to crisis.
But in 1986.. DC became ALL about crises and they just kept happening and the Legion got dragged into it and became the same - I mean, Giffen BLEW UP THE MOON! The 2000s (threeboot) was about bored teens in a "utopia" who wanted to rebel. That got axed with the entire Legion being shut down (literally) for a reboot into the godawful Justice League 3000 (also by Giffen). Then they hint at the Legion coming back for 5 years, reintroduce a surprisingly brain damaged Saturn Girl who gets ERASED in Doomsday Clock...
And now we have a new Legion that's half Booster Gold and half... I don't know what.
The Legion's success was because it WAS simple and optimistic. I mean, come on - Bouncing Boy? He was the ultimate mary sue - the chubby guy who gets to be a hero AND gets the girl(s)... but we could relate to him.
I still have my flight ring. I still have hope. But it does get harder with time to hold onto it.
Join our LSH group on Facebook. Just search LSH and the group will appear....almost 6000 Legion fans now.
Feels good to find some like-minded legion fans, big agree.
I used to buy the old ones in the late 80s, by far one of the best reads.
I agree that the Slice-Of-Life stories made the Legion great. One I remember is when Cosmic Boy and Night Girl breakup because he doesn't want her to put herself in danger. Cosmic Boy can't forget her (on a date with another woman he calls her "Lydda") and returns to save her from an attack (it occurred just as the Sun was rising) and they reconcile.
Another is when Bouncing Boy is depressed because his wife defends him from an attack (he didn't have his powers at that time). Later, he is confronted by some thugs and defends himself with some rubber balls by throwing them against the wall behind them. The balls hit their knives (covering the blades) and then knocked them out (he still had his skills in angles and trajectories from his time as Bouncing Boy).
This returned during in the "Legionnaires" series (which featured teenage versions of the Legion members). One story I liked was when a group of Legionnaires decided to get together at a resort in Atlantis. Lots of nice character moments (such Matter-Eater Lad shows he's interested in dating Shrinking Violet and he received the "I have a boyfriend" speech and his response is something like "Of course.").
Do more of these please.
I loved them as well
I agree a lot with what you guys are saying . But I actually like the waid legion run. It's not his best work however I think it's a good entry point for legion. I also think legion of 3 worlds is really good.
Legion is awesome for the costume designs alone. I had to go back and look at X-Men #107 to see how direct the nod to the Legion was in that book and it was a lot closer than I remembered.
Nightcrawler was originally supposed to be a legions character!
True, he was rejected by CD for being too weird. So he was brought over to the X-Men with a far-different personality.
I loved the legion when Paul levitz was writing a long story arc and I liked then when the legionnaires were introduced, but other than that they have not been the same since.
Even Bendis relaunch/retcon doesn't work
The Bendis run is finally ending my love for Legion, sadly. It's just so blah. All things must pass, but they won't pass quickly enough!
Abnett & Lanning's 5 year run was freaking epic!
Join our LSH group on Facebook. Just search LSH and the group will appear....almost 6000 Legion fans now.
Loved both the original Legion and the reboot Legion. Nothing since has really connected with me outside of the Legion of Three Worlds mini series.
Which, iirc, was done by Johns and Perez. Amazing what top level talent can do. I used to say back in the 80s that George Perez brought such a dynamic flow to a story that virtually anything he would do would be successful. Hence, New Teen Titans, Crisis, Wonder Woman, etc. Not to mention a little something called the Avengers back in the day, too.
I loved the "Legion of Superheroes"...
What do you think of the Legion of Superheroes cartoon?
Perch, great video. The Levitz era in the 80's is my favorite; Earth War, Great Darkness Saga, War with the Legion of Super-Villains, the Universo Project, the Final Confrontation with the Time Trapper, etc -- just too many epic storylines to mention. I totally agree with you guys about Jim Shooter's run though - he's the guy who really turned it into something new, special, and exciting.
There were a handful of writers that seemed to oscillate off and the book in the late 70's, like Starlin, Conway, Thomas, and Levitz. But once Levitz became the stable ongoing writer (with occasional writing help from Giffen) it felt like he really started to build a definitive vision of the DCU's future using the foundation that Big Jim laid down a decade beforehand.
I get that some people don't like DC Silver Age comics - but I'm one of those guys who even likes even those old school original issues. Are they essential Legion reading to a casual Legion fan? Probably not, but they're cheesy fun and I think the art in those Silver Age issues is very nice. Poor Lightning Lad had a hard time back then, he lost his arm, died, and was brought back to life. Not to mention that later in the 80's, he goes insane and cracks under leadership pressure, fathers Validus, and has to confront his insane brother, Lightning Lord. He's had it harder than anyone. LOL
By the way - I did not know that Levitz originally intended for Sensor Girl to be Supergirl, instead of Jeckie, but editorial vetoed it. But that makes so much sense now. That fits in hindsight because at the time it seemed so stupid that Jeckie's powers magically went from "illusion casting" to "omnipotence" overnight.
I never cared much for Waid's run - it just didn't feel like the Legion to me. I actually liked Levitz's return 10 years or so ago, although admittedly, it didn't hit the same highs as his original run. I also kind of liked Niciezia's and Pete Woods' Legion Lost. I love the Great Darkness Saga, but I actually recommend new fans read a few other stories before that, to get their feet wet. I think GDS has a bit more impact if the reader knows who the characters are first. There's an awesome Elseworld's story by Mark Farmer and Alan Davis called Superboy's Legion that's actually a pretty good introduction for new readers. I love Johns and Perez's Legion of 3 Worlds; but it's definitely not new Legion reader friendly.
Bendis' run is awful. Just stay away. The art is very nice - but there's too many character changes and too much nonsensical babbling and annoying jibber-jabber. It's not really the Legion. Just avoid it. Heck, you're better off reading Legionnaires from the 90's, or even the milquetoast Cary Bates Action Comics era than this current one. At least Cary's stories make sense.
"Poor Lightning Lad had a hard time back then, he lost his arm, died, and was brought back to life. "
You forgot to mention that during the "Five Years Later" era it was revealed that Lightning Lad never came back to life. He was replaced by Chameleon Boy's pet Proty. So from the mid sixties to the early 90's it was not really Lightning Lad in all those Legion stories.
@@sonic31century1 That sounds like the kind of crap Giffen would come up with.
@@allnyermind The "Five Years Later" era was indeed written by Giffen.
Did anyone read or remember the Mark Farmer / Alan Davis elseworlds "Superboy's Legion". Farmer wrote and inked the two issue story and Alan Davis did, what I felt, were fantastic redesigns of the outfits but keeping with the feel of the originals he pulled from.
I have a lot of fond memories of watching the cartoon as a kid with my dad. He was a huge fan back in the 70s and these past couple of years has REALLY gotten me into the team. It's a crying shame that there hasn't been a movie based on the team yet, although based on how most of DC's movies have turned out this past decade maybe that's for the best. I disagree with your points regarding the Waid run but it was clearly cut off before it could really blossom into something special. The Bendis analogue to JJ Abrams seems pretty spot on but the first volume of his felt to me more like Star Trek 2009 than Rise of Skywalker and I hope he has enough clout there to really have a substantive run that goes new places and brings the team back into the limelight. Hickman on Legion is of course the dream writer once he's done with X-Men but we'll see what happens. The DnA run is probably my favorite from what I've read (it's a CRIME more of that isn't collected in trades) and Legion Lost especially is possibly one of my favorite comics ever. Even with some disagreements this was still a fantastic deep dive into a hidden gem in DC history. Long live the Legion!
I want Legion of Superheroes to be made into a live-action movie soon.
The Legion was damaged when John B. determined Superman was never a Superboy. So they tried the pocket universe deal, then Mon-el was turned into Valor and it all died with Zero Hour and never came up with anything I cared about. The Legion was about fun and a bright future for man. The five year time pause while the UP fell apart and wars happened between member planets and the "grim and gritty" universe that resulted kill off the title.
agree with most all of this, but I did like the run in the Threeboot with Supergirl. Some of their sociological choices I could have done without but that whole Superigrl arc was really good to me
I agree that loss of Superboy led to the end of the Legion. I don't fault the Legion's Creative Teams for the problems, they were dealing with problems that were out of their control. I think the Pocket Universe Superboy would have worked if it had been allowed to stand. Unfortunately, it wasn't allowed to stand and that led to years of having to fix problems leading up to a complete reboot of the Legion. I've compared what was done to The Legion with the writers of "Star Trek" being told "James T. Kirk never existed, deal with it."
Modern fans would probably be shocked to know that Legion of Super Heroes and Teen Titans were DC's top selling titles! And really the only books challenging Marvel back in the day. Good days! The Great Darkness Saga was awesome! I recently bought a grab box that had the Giffen series. It might be alright if you sit and read it. But it doesn't work on a dynamic level. A lot of subplots that don't seem to matter.
The Legion were one of my favorite comics. I love them with Superboy (not Supergirl). I would put them above X-men and Teen titans.
my most favorite comic ever... the originals pre-Zero Hour.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Join our LSH group on Facebook. Just search LSH and the group will appear....almost 6000 Legion fans now.
I almost forgot about Laurel Gand, best Supergirl ever.
I love that you did this. I grew up loving the Legion in the 70’s and 80’s. On the other hand, my favorite series are the more eclectic team books that are less popular anyway.
The reboot legion and the cartoon were my first introductions of the team and to me will always be my favorite versions of them.
The Levitz run, I loved the saga of Cham losing his powers and having to go to his home world to get his powers back. All that came out of it changed the character and he was one of my favorites (much like Vision in Avengers until Byrne undid him). I cringe that every reboot has to play up Chameleon Boy as this wide eyed innocent and background character. I agree that Crisis eliminating Superboy just sent things on the wrong path. Valor the series (anyone remember Babbage, his A.I.?), retconning Time Trapper, all of that just to fix what should not have been broken. :P Last note, the 5 years later arc started out strong, but fell apart quickly. I liked the world they established (KENT SHAKESPEARE RULED!), but sigh, nothing ever lasts with the Legion. The Levitz return and retcon was not the same magic.
I remember that story about Cham. I think that was right after they revealed that RJ Brande was actually a Durlan stuck in human form and he went back with Cham to Durla while Cham tried to get his powers back. Good times. That's when Levitz was really cooking.
I don't fault the Creative Team for the issues with the "Five Years Later..." era. What hurt was just as they were getting started they were mandated to eliminate Superboy completely. It led to the replacement of Superboy with Valor and Supergirl with Laurel Gand. That was the point where everything started to fall apart.
Love this
I've always loved the Legion. The concept and the characters that is. The property has rarely been well executed IMO and hasn't really lived up to it's potential save some brief periods here and there. Loved this video. Thanks as always for great content.
Marvel is xmen for me. LSH is Dc for me. You guys spoke of universo... is this villain the same villain in the 4 part Universo project? The rich history you guys conversed blew mind! Again a wonderful topic. Thanks as well for illuminating for me Shooter's brilliance making LSH as a teen/young man. Be safe. Mabuhay!
Wow, I just realized that the legion pre dates justice league. Holy crud. And I call myself a fan of both for 50 yrs. Must be dementia
Curt Swan was the legion of superheroes
I use to like the Legion of Superheroes as a kid, mainly because they use to give me a huge X-Men vibe, but in DC comics, which I loved.
When I got into DC, i started looking at post crisis(and 0 hour) stuff and immediately went to Legion. Time Trapper and Mordu(+LOSV) are great villians IMO
Mordru is an awesome villian
I truly love the 5YL period. I think for all it's "Grim & Gritty" trappings I find it to be quite inspirational with the "Getting the Band back together" and showing the hope the Legion can bring. Having said that, I think of it as a long "ElseWorlds" story and think with Zero Hour they should've just done what they eventually did with the retroboot. I bought the Omni and recommend you both get it too!(I selfishly want you to read it and do a retrospective!). The Zero Hour Legion started nicely but I tuned in and out until the DnA run, which I enjoyed a lot(I agree with Joe C, you really should read Lost AND Worlds together). Didnt like the threeboot at all and am only still getting the current series because I committed to a year.
The first Fatal Five story was my introduction to the Legion and fed my burgeoning love of comics. I will never forget the death of Ferro Lad and how it shook me up. I still suspect he was intended to die from the start. And when I was a teenager, those female Legion costumes were a joy to behold.
Bendis and Sook’s run is looking forward. Read the outline Bendis prepared for Sook about “looking forward, because looking backwards is death...” People try to say the past version are better because they did the opposite. But if you go back and look at the old issues there are tons of examples of tons of standing around and talking... This is the first truly original take since the inception of the concept of the Legion.
A great discussion of the LSH!
Really enjoyed this retrospective Perch. One of your best ones. I remember when the Legion was fun, and it kept things moving. Wish Levitz still had control of the franchise. But with all the revisionism, it's too confusing, and I don't think what Bendis has done, has helped. Wish they could have revamped the Legion ANOTHER 1000 years into the future, and seen what happened with the Legion continuing on, and with the Legions' descendants. Now, that would have been introducing. Do think the Superboy death i the mid eighties was a high point, and incredibly moving story, but I didn't agree with Byrne's rewrite.
My dad was a Legion fan as a kid and told me about the series. When we got older we started a project to buy every main-line Legion comic (Which is surprisingly affordable compared to the cost of other comics back issues). I am now the proud owner of every major Legion issue from 1958 to 1989. Stopped there because the 5 years later comics were garbage and I wanted to remember the Legion when they were great. Actually Legionaires wasn't terrible so I might go back and pick up those at a later time.
The post zero-hour Legion Of Superheroes and Legionnaires comics were great. Very respectful of the previous thirty years of stories while at the same time making its own continuity.
Excellent, love the deep dive, into a series i kept seeing at the second hand stores till i decided to pick up a few issues of the levitz/Giffen run, did not regret and went back for more.
Always loved the LSH.
I jumped onboard with the Great Darkness Saga up to the Legion of 3 Worlds.
I loved catching up on previous stuff with back-issues from the 70s and those old small thick digest books with all the old 60s stories in them.
The more recent stuff...not so much into, unfortunately.
Great video, I love the Legion! That Jim Shooter trivia is one of my favorite nuggets.
One of my FAVORITES as evidenced by my screen name, one of The Legion's most powerful villains!
Don't forget The IMPERIAL GUARD who fought The X-Men were thinly disguised Legionaires!
JIM SHOOTER NOTE- After arriving at Marvel, Shooter wrote DAREDEVIL and wrote about 30 issues of THE AVENGERS!!
I actually started reading Legion of Super-heroes a couple years ago just to understand why it was a big deal why they were coming back & ended up loving the pathos, & characters provided. It was essentially the X-men but had a more justified reason on not interacting with the larger DCU.
My favorite version of the team is the Reboot version (the 1994 version to be accurate).
The post Zero-Hour, 1994 version was great. Too bad DC rebooted the Legion again in about 2005.
@@sonic31century1 yeah it was too bad but that was around the time DC was just winging it with characters due to Infinite Crisis being on the horizon. I'm at least thankful Threeboot turned out to be pretty good (for the first 36 issues anyway).
Great topic! Thanks for doing this! Wonderful historical perspective and inside info. Love the Legion and would love to see them returned to glory.
My first exposure to the Legion was issue 1 of Vol 4. What some call the dreaded "Five Years Later" time jump. I was first seeing these (ex) legionnaires as Rokk, Salu, Reep, and Jo and only by careful reading was able to 'detective out' who they used to be. And while not a popular time period, it's still my favorite era of the Legion.
Name aside, there's something about Joe's voice and speech mannerism that always makes me think of Adam Corolla!
i used to be a huge legion fan but then after the adult lgion they rebooted the book in rapid succession, and i judst said i just cant go up that retelling of the legion origin hill yet again. they had a legion cartoon and it was pretty good. the great darkness saga i would love to get that in a dc deluxe edition. and ppl dont understand that the great darkness saga was up there with the judas contract, and the dark phoenix saga . and the art was held up there with george perez and john byrne at the time. i liked the adult legion run but omni is huge you just cant pick it up and read it you have to prop it up on something. oh also the legion really embrasses the barberella sci fi costume aesthetic in the late 60s early 70s. you got some far out looks. good vid gents.
Awesome conversation, LLtL
I’m getting hooked on these old comic book stories
DC keeps screwing up the "Legion Of Superheroes." The first screw up was ignoring the pocket universe solution John Byrne created to explain the Legion. It was revealed that the Legion never went to the real past of the DC universe to meet Superboy. Instead they went to a pocket universe that had a Superboy. This Superboy was the one that went to the 30th century. This preserved the Legion's history post-crisis. Pretty quickly they threw this out so that it was Valor (Mon-el) who the Legion went back in time to recruit into the team. Superboy did not exist.
The second DC screw up towards the Legion was rebooting the post-Zero Hour Legion. During the mini-series Zero - Hour, the "Five Years Later" adult Legion merged their bodies with the teenage clone Legionnaires. The universe ended and was reborn. Now DC retold Legion continuity in two comics: "Legion Of Superheroes" and Legionnaires." Beginning with the zero issues of these comics Legion stories and history were told from the beginning. The previous thirty years never happened. The post Zero-Hour legion lasted until about 2004 when it was rebooted again.
DC threw out these two great solutions to any continuity problems the Legion had in relation to the rest of the DC universe.
@Ryan Wilson Yes I have read L.E.G.I.O.N. and its follow up series R.E.B.E.L.S.. It came out of the mini series"Invasion." A group of aliens who had been imprisoned by the Khuds banned together as a supergroup. Braniac 5's ancestor led the group. As the series went on, more ties to the Legion were shown. It can be read on its own, though.
Got to agree with you Sonicman. I'm an old fart and I've followed the LSH since pretty much the beginning. The pocket universe solution was neat, clean and perfect. the teenage clone stuff left me cold. Some of the other many reboots (are we up to 8 or 9 yet?) had interesting ideas. Tenzil (Matter Eater Lad) as a government agent/troubleshooter or Chuck (Bouncing Boy) becoming the team technician. LLtL
I don't have time to watch it all right now, but this is exactly what I'm looking for on RUclips. An in depth look at the Legion. Thank you!
Follow up, I made time and I'm so glad I did. Excellent work gents.
@@bradhogue2029 Thank you so much!
Thank you sir!
Perch and Joe, you've inspired me - I just scored all three Silver Age Omnibus volumes in a very good deal on eBay. All will, needless to say, be on my 2021 reading list!
Happy to hear it!
Very interesting, though Paul Levitz gets the short stick.
The only part of the Bendis 2019/2020 run is Ryan Sook's awesome redesigns. I love seeing alien characters looking more alien and futuristic.
The actual story is completely awful. Not only does no one on the team have any chemistry or even really a desire to work together at all, but Bendis has no concept of continuity. Even with just a year-long run, he retconed his own title like 3 or 4 times. Mon-El went from being a Daxamite to being Jon Kent's descendent; Invisible Kid was Lyle Norg, but then a few issues later he was Jacque Foccart.
Bendis completely butchered the Legion.
Good overview. For some reason, I've never stayed on a Legion book as a reader for too long, but I like the concept behind it.
LoSH. One of my all time favorites, at 6 my grand father have me a bunch of ils comics (he got them so kids would stay quiet in his barber shop) I remember in the begining the original 3 and others had a lot of Pink, purple in their costume wich except for Magnus robot fighter , no one had
.They had L S pets lol, LSubs, even a LofRejects.
It was young and i guess for the young mostly. But some stories could compete with JLA.
They had so many heroes that THEY could send out the perfect members To fight bad bad people.
Superboy and Mon El des interesting as they were equal but poor Mon El des alergic To lead.
Ultra Boy was one my faves cause he was like Superboy,Mon El but only one power at a time, this made him cool cause he had To think before doing.
Compared to others they had a lot of girls
LOL some had really weird powers like Boncing Boy.
Yep a précurseur To X men and until X men came back from that island with new members my faverite.
Thanks guys, just loved the LSH. ( not all reboots tho)
Join our LSH group on Facebook. Just search LSH and the group will appear....almost 6000 Legion fans now.
When you mention Saturn Girl is a Jean Grey type - true. That at least the X-men lifted stuff from the Legion, I'd agree. I watched the short lived TV series on stream, and I got interested in some of the background that was hinted in show (but couldn't be actively portrayed because kids' show aimed at like 10 - 14 yr olds) It turns out in a version that might be retconned, or being re-built to at some point down the line; there was a triangle with Saturn Girl, the original leader of the Legion - who she gave her first time to but was an ex - and Lightning Lad (who she eventually marries and has kids with) So it's very much like the Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine problem. Didn't know that Triplicate Girl had a crush on Superman/boy, but I do know that in that same (retconned?) continuity she does get into a relationship/marries bouncing boy. (Think it might've been too on the nose to include a baby, but that's just me)
Personally, I think Kara fit the legion really well, I'm not exactly clear on why she had to die (other than competing with her more popular cousin and tanking interest for convolution) I always thought they could do better for her character. She could run with a counter to some of his more pacifist ideals, that didn't break, but could bend his moral code against power usage and the reasoning behind it. Become a challenge to make him question, but not be broken down by her debating. Like he pointed out in the Animated Justice League against Darkseid, there's a reason he holds back as much as he does, but Kara wasn't raised like that. They are cousins, so similarities shine through and they could rebound off each other's points like family should. She could/should idolize him to some extent, but eventually come to realize her views differ and THAT's how she steps from his shadow like she should. To become the hero she can be, rather than just a generic female copy. You could even mark her the more aggressive fighter overall because she was slated/trained to be Kal's protector, so her views would naturally differ and then it's about finding a balance he can live with, while also stepping into the role she was meant to fill to some extent. (I know he doesn't really need it, but that could be another interesting family argument between them)
I'd be interested in a comic that fleshed out these guys, and continued the story to define certain points. Let them grow into the role of galactic protectors that can have Superman's back. Full stop. Show that they can be what he meant the legion to become - even if I think it's a better option to just full out make Superman the god that DC wants him to be. He's genetically related to one, and Superman prime is one, so it's not out of the cards he can be effectively immortal. Doesn't mean he has to be involved in every storyline - The Legion was as far as I understand it, a promise of legacy in protection for all worlds that he'd united. So while he can go off to other galaxies in time and help the farther reaches * while returning every so often to recharge with that yellow Sun so he doesn't lose the immortality point * the legion will hold down the fort in this universe. Or something along those lines.
The characters did have a LOT of potential, and it's one of the more interesting ideas for a series. Especially because it WASN'T dystopian, and everything wasn't sunshine and peaches.
I think the second season of the show buggered up a bit with that Superboy clone that was immune to Kryptonite but became an edgelord. There wasn't much else they could do because they jumped the gun a few years and skipped a lot of character growth. Would not mind another go at it though. They might have gone that route because animation is expensive, and they weren't expecting a long run.
LONG LIVE THE LEGION!!!
Man every month ready to get my copy of the legion loved the battles with fatal five and the epic story of the stalag
"And he [Jim Shooter] only did it with mild help from Christos Gage, from what I understand." Hey-oh!!!!!!
I'm going to keep using that joke forever.
“I think Legion is straightforward, all things considered.” Bro, you have read too many comics.
Please show inside of books n describe storys
In the late 90's I had to sell my X-Men to pay bills. I picked up LSH around 2000 with Abnett/Lanning. Now between Omnibuses, Archives, spin-offs and floppies from The number 259 to today, I have everything. And it's waaaaay cheaper than X-Men.
The Legion has always been my favorite super hero group. Despite the lame depictions on Supergirl, I would like to see a well written series or movie based on those characters.
One thing I did like was the clip I saw of Brainiac 5 from "Supergirl" where they unleash him. He's terrified of what's about to happen, trying to stop what's going to happen, and when he was unleashed it was shocking to see just how dangerous he actually is.
Holy crap, awesome upload! I'm a (slight) Legion of Heroes fan, so I'm looking forward to this! Thanks for this Perch! By the way I hope you don't mind, but I tweeted out a link to this video
Thank you! For this video I put it in a few feed services to get more coverage/eyes on it. Joe is amazing in his knowledge and I wanted to get more eyes on it. Usually that doesn't work but today looks like it did...
@@ComicsPerch I probably should have tagged you in the tweet lol twitter.com/MyGhostWorld/status/1336706309702512642?s=20
LSH fans seem to be tje most hardcore fandom. I was at the Baltimore Comicon around 2007 and Jim Shooter and. Barry Kitson had a huge line of Legion fans lined up to see them.
Our LSH group on Facebook is the largest Legion group in existence. Jim Shooter was a member of Interlac' as was Paul Levitz' Mark Waid and the Bierbaums. If you love the Legion' you'll love our group.
Just type LSH into the Facebook search....we're the largest Legion group. Make sure you answer the 3 easy questions!!
The 70s have been the best era of Legions Of Superheroes. Timberwolf with his „demon eyes“ and „devil horn hairs“ is my absolute favorite, but most underrated.
Awesome
Interesting discussion of the Legion. I'd never read them back in the day, but that's okay as there's a ton of that stuff to read now.
Golly, I wish I had been invited to talk about this topic. The Legion is, after all, kinda my jam. In fact, for my own channel I’ve been working on a Legion of Super-Reboots series, inspired by Perch's similar series on the many Avengers reboots and relaunches. And, in that sense, even the first Legion story in Adventure #247 was a reboot, as it had at least three and maybe four precursor tales, three of them for sure written by Otto Binder.
The Legion never really abandoned the
According to my index, Otto Binder only did 5 Legion stories, Plastino just 3. And some of those were A/R collector cameo appearances of the Legion.
The early growth of the Legion can indeed be said to have been an outgrowth of the fans. In fact, many of the heroes, both on the team proper and in their orbit of supporting players, were developed directly from suggestions sent in by fans in the letter column's “Bits of Legionnaire Business” column. That was, of course, a thing comics could do then without incurring the risk of a lawsuit.
Ultra Boy was not an “as it turns out he's from the 30th century” character. He appears first in the SUPERBOY title because the Legion had not yet been given its own series at that point. But he was a Legion character from the future from the very start, his trip to the present being immediately revealed as a Legion initiation test.
The Triplicate Girl crush on Superboy was not a thing until after Shooter came on board, it being revealed during the first Mordru story.
Otto Binder and Edmund Hamilton were both Golden Age SF writers, mainstays of the pulps.
thank you for this...been collecting them my whole life, 70's till now....whats your thoughts on LEGION LOST, its my 2nd favorite story arch next to THE DARKNESS SAGA !
Honestly, I LOVE Legion Lost! It's certainly a favorite of mine.
Great detail on a classic subject, but is it too much to ask that you sync up the video to your podcast?
Spot on regarding the comment on the Big 2 constantly trying to reconcile the past. It’s like trying to drive while looking out your rear view mirror and then wondering why you’re always running into 💩.
The Legion of Super Villains were established in "Adult Legion" stories in Superman and Action. Then when they appeared in their own origin story, it was a "whoa" moment for sure. Funny thing, I've reread that particular story "The Colossal Failure/School for Super-Villains" a good dozen times and just realized today that the whole premise of it was flawed. The bad guys extort Colossal Boy to get information on Legion training procedures when they already had, in Nemesis Kid, someone who had been through the process himself.
True! Still a fun story though, and I'm sure we could figure out a no prize answer for it if we tried hard.