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Catalysts - The Worst Weapon Type? | Genshin Impact
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2022
- For today's video we're gonna talk about Catalysts in Genshin Impact. Among its current roster of characters, Catalyst users suffer from the lowest usage, leading many to believe the problem is a result of the weapon type itself (and the conventions applied to those who wield it). Let's figure out what could be the problem(s)!
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#Genshin #Catalyst #Weapon
I love almost all the catalyst characters so its a shame they feel like the most underdeveloped type of character
Well… warning this is me without watching the whole video might change after but partly they are pretty underdeveloped but another part is because we’ll Catalyst very similar to bow users are very niche and most of the time very simple in design. If you look at what they’re counterparts would be in other games you kinda see similarities. League being a decent example. ADC’s such as Vayne, ashe and etc have the issue of being extremely simple character because of the nature of adc’s they auto attack and deal high burst damage. Or if your looking at supports they purely have utility most of the time. With now users it leans towards the dmg and with Catalyst it leans towards supports with of course in between of both. However problem with Genshin is for how simple (this is extremely debatable) the gameplay is its kinda difficult to fully maximize the use of Catalysts and Bow users. Bows have much more flexible which is why we don’t have a video here about bows however catalyst suffer the worst from this since you only see purely primary attack based characters or extremely utility based. Which in terms of gameplay for Genshin turns into very simple not very dynamic or interesting design compared to everyone else.
I remember the time klee got released and thought she was op with her "aoe pyro damage" only to find out that she has a set range that you need to keep track of at all times. Then it'll either be too close or too far
@@SoneAteForTwo Klee is very similar to Ziggs in league of legends. Klees elemental skill is like if you would combine Ziggs Q, W, E into 1 bomb that bounce and knock back enemies hit which then at the end become a small minefield?
@@askarn94 no
@@Gomitasd well yes they are similar even the mechanics is in a way.. I have klee and i have played ziggs alot back in my old league days.. So yes in my opinion.
I find Yanfei’s attacks perfectly fluid and easy to use, honestly. The only issue is when the auto-lock chooses the wrong target, and that is a different problem: that Genshin for some unholy reason doesn’t have a button for targeting foes…
because mhy secretly hate developing GI
@@sonnguyen-iv7gv care to elaborate?
@@sonnguyen-iv7gv yawn, whatever “hate” they might have is wiped away by what motivates all companies. Straight cash homie
Then maybe turn off auto lock on nearest target in settings.. Tweak in the settings until you find it. The name says 1 thing but it changes more than that i guess.. ive never had those auto lock issues when holding down W or S and spamming normal attack which also happens to speed up the normal attack if it still work ofc? (or on mobile pulling the trigger down while doing normal attacks)
**Cries in yoimiya auto attacks*
I love Yanfei, her design, her character, her personality, and every meme face of her. One thing I don't like about her is how bad she is at lighting torches, I initially thought it would be easier because all of her attacks are infuse with pyro but boy am I wrong.
It's bad you have to hug the torch.
her E and charge have better tracking and pathfinding than her autos (unless theres an object other than the torches around lol) which makes life a little more bearable
@@DayFul only way I can consistently light them is to climb up on the torch and plunge attack, otherwise it's like 50/50 when I'm right in front of the thing.
I'd love if they were the absolute lowest priority for auto aim, then we'd be able to actually hit the things, but wouldn't end up pumping 3 fire into them instead of actual enemies. Only targeting unlit torches would work too, come to think of it.
@@queencoreglitch9201 im still grateful for her basic attacks a bird tried to run away and it followed the bird for like 4 seconds until it died
normal attack has the worst auto aim for torches, so just use your charged attack instead. Stand a little bit away from the torch and use your charged attack.
6:59 "Catalyst users stay in place when attacking"
There is at least one exception to bring us hope: Mona. She will move backward OR forward depending on how far her target is, thus preserve an "optimal distance" of some sort (unlike bow users who have a tendency to fall out of range). I wish they'd carry over that mechanic to more ranged characters in general.
Lisa moves backwards as well.
@@Sachicodao yeah but Lisa only moves backwards tho so if they stand still ur gonna have to walk up a bit again
@@elpenguinoofmexico1388 nah she moves forward as well iirc
Kokomi moves backwards too
kokomi, liza, and yanfei all move backwards too
Yanfei's attack animations are the most fluid of all the catalysts. It's really easy to do 3 normal attacks and then a charged attack and for it to flow seamlessly. You want to be doing that anyway to consume her seals after the normals. Just slap a shield on her so she doesn't get interrupted and pair her with Xq and you're golden. It works quite well! The main issue is the slow projectile speed, so you can miss or hit the wrong enemy. But that's just ONE of the catalyst characters.
I think Ningguang falls into this as well... never and I actually mean NEVER have I viewed her attacks as "not fluid".
And the even better thing is that on C4 she can get a shield worth 45% of her hp when she ults. Shes even there on the current banners, so a lot of players got a bunch of yanfei cons. I don't really feel any problems with her apart from the high charged attack cost, and I'm pretty confident in saying she's the best 4 star onfield dps
I agree, Yanfei is a very beautifully designed catalyst character. Not broken and at the same time not weak. I wasn't surprised when the chinese genshin community used Tankfei instead of Thoma because of how easier her shield management and build than Thoma's for spiral abyss. Her constellations feels like extra sauces to an already delicious looking burger instead of being served a dry burger with suspicious patty needing constellations to be beneficial. Expensive CA due to being a catalyst user? Here have this C1 to reduce stamina% consumption based on number of seals. Hard to balance your crit rate and crit damage? Here's C2 free 20% crit rate using your CA. Squishy because you're a catalyst user? Here have this C4 fat shield of your 45% MaxHP for 15s. Congratulations you made through this way, here's C6 an extra seal to make your stamina barely being used at all for doing CA. Also if you haven't noticed due to killing everything, we made your CA AOE larger depending on your number of seals with each different "btoom" sounds on impact. What's that? You didn't pull Yoimiya for her homing arrows? Worry not Yanfei's NA will hit every specters your eyes even managed to lay on. Yes, that's how fun I felt playing her.
AND she's got a lovely personality :)
Yanfei's attacks are so quick I'm so glad I invested in her.
I think catalyst users are supposed to be the class that can deal elemental damage consistanly, in exchange for their slow attack speed and huge stamina cost. But many characters of other classes, especially recently ("recently" as in not releashed with the game or first few banner, I forget Genshin is still kinda new) have some form of elemental infusion in their kit and it becomes a trend. They can do what catalyst users can with much more effiecency while having little to no drawback. So there's not much point in using catalyst anymore.
the most catalyst character for me is kokomi, ningguang, yanfei
klee and lisa is just too short ranged, mona barbruh and the like, the attack just lacks oomph
also being catalyst you thought their burst and ele skill are more readily available or at least the attacks do something more in exchange of their slower and sometimes smaller AoE compared to other weapon types
but it seems people compensate it for the burst or ele skill effect, like probably most of them are just on screen to pop their skills and go away
unless they use yanfei or klee which needs to be on screen to do their stuff
I think there's point in using them when a whole chamber has ranged enemies, especially oceanid's birbs
The biggest issue with them is the icd. Due to the icd the actual output of reactions hardly changes from catalyst to infusion. Char with infusions also vome with a additional dps increase. While catalysts have just more of the same.
Kokomi though a perfect bridge between them is shafted by her passive which give beter healing and base damage but at the cost of ever landing a crit.
Even worse, with ability of having 4 characters in a team, you don't need any catalyst or character with infusions to constantly deal elemental damage, you can just switch between party members and use skill/burst on cooldown.
I guess the point of using them is having elemental damage consistently and dealing damage from far .
6:38 "Yanfei and Nigguang may miss because of slow projectile speed."
Not really, their projectiles will actually seek the target they locked on.
I find magic missiles being intercepted on their way is a lesser issue than bow users missing a moving target.
the key word here is slow and speed it doesnt matter if it homes in if it moves too slowly to hit the opponent before they go behind a wall
@@fancymustache3793 well, in abyss there is no wall except for the summoned one and unless they go underground the homing is more than good enough to even hit jumping target, other than that yea it suck
@@fancymustache3793 As a former Ningguang main i can say from experience that the only time, when my auto's would miss was when the enemy went invisible or disappeared, but then melee attacks would also miss.
Overworld doesn't really matter, boss arenas are always flat surfaces just like abyss. Missing the target really is not the problem here.
Yanfei's fireballs doesn't seem that slow to me at all- And I find it especially funny when a slime jumps up to the air and the fireballs go to chase em' like rabid dogs
Catalysts hits in straight lines when there is no ennemi in their range. This only is enough to tell they are garbage.
*Goes back to Genshin with a full catalyst team*
gotta love how heizou ignores litreally everything in this video since his normal attacks are melee, his charged attacks have quick animations and he has crazy scaling on his e
Wanderer ignores the 50 energy charged attack with his elemental skill
Yanfei's attacks have done a complete 180 when targeting something before, so missing with a catalyst is very hard to do, but the whole lack of a targeting system often has me playing her in melee range while she does have any defense to speak of. The c4 shield is good though
You can turn gyro aim in game to never miss....
I think yanfei is one of the most strongest ( miss maid, chuni are the strongest) c6 4 star charcters
Gyro is available for mobile, sketch book and iPad 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
genshin's targeting system sucks, bottlenecking yanfei's overpowered targeting
her fireballs can literally do a complete 180, and can even follow a teleporting abyss mage (much like diona's elemental skill)
@@iamstupid323 wtf does gyro aiming have to do with catalyst users
@@LordofCicadas hey dummy gyro aiming is an aim bot
@@iamstupid323 Hey common senseless Albedo, gyro aim only works on bow users aimed shot mode and catalyst users have auto target, homing or sure hit auto attacks making your so called “aim bot” useless.
Something to also mention is catalyst really lacks a really good 'meta' dps weapon. The only amazing options I can think of is Solar Pearl (which is BP only), Lost Prayer, and Skyward Atlus but none of them really excel at DPS at all. Widsith is also a completely different story because of the RNG nature of it's passive but I think the fact that all of these were available from release should tell you enough of how much catalyst needs more options
the new yae's weapon "kagura's verity" seems promising though, which stat wise it's basically a homa but catalyst
@@robendefinitely But still it's a limited 5 star weapon, meaning that most players won't have a proper DPS weapon.
I think they should rework or add 4* options.
Widsith does at least add damage in a Yanfei vape team no matter which buff you get. Not that this does anything for the other problems...
@@robendefinitely isn't the new catalyst Atk percentage substat???
Widsith is almost as good as 5* or even better with refinements since it provides atleast that massive 55 crit dmg.........also most catalyst users are used solely for TTDS buff 🥲🥲
Very minor thing but as a yanfei main, i really like the auto lock-on thing that catalysts do, it automatically adjusts the camera to where you locked on enemy is. Since i am on mobile and its kinda annoying to change camera angles. Yanfei + Beidou is also very satisfying to play
Honestly, the whole issue with catalyst users could be “solved” is to simply buff their dmg. For balancing, I would really like to see the charged attack dmg be buffed 2x more. So then catalyst rotations become more like “small hit > small hit> small hit> big deeps”. Perhaps future DPS catalyst users will have this.
Jesus. My Klee already does 14k with charged attacks (no food/elemental reactions). Multiply that by 2 and I’d be hitting 28k per charged attack and then maybe 60k with elemental reactions LOL (I hit about 32k with melt/vaporize) a times 2 buff would be wild.
@@kookio4284 bruh
@@kookio4284 but klee isnt good with reactions since she applies pyro too fast
@@justgeo6889I mean, I didn’t say she was, but that’s how much I typically hit when I do get a melt reaction with Klee. But I only try to get elemental reactions when I have a charge attack prepared. A fun way I get Klee elemental reactions is pairing her up with Ayaka who can apply Cryo just as fast if not faster. So either Ayaka gets melt reactions or Klee does. Either way, its a win in my book cause both do massive damage.
How ab yanfei lol,its exactly as you say,> basic attack >basic attack>basic attack> and than hold basic attack and it does deep damage
I feel like the only positive for me with catalysts is that *some* of them are able to hit targets through walls or objects, and i feel like Mihoyo can make that a universal thing for catalysts
Yeah that would be cool like a pierce damage type
Like hitting hilichurls on the annoying towers
Mona😎😎
Ning burst
@@kupperma5289 yup
I would put an argument that bows are inferior to catalyst, it's just we have more broken characters in bow department. Most bow characters never uses their AA and CA since they do so little dps exception being ganyu(due to her blooms) and yoimiya(after Pyro infusion).
Pretty much every other bow character only rely on their E and Q.
Yoimiya literally become catalyst user after using her elemental skill.
@@mactavish5500 and she doesnt rely on her burst (it truly sucks, it stays at level 7 for me and im not touching that again), it's just pew pew pow all over again hehe
I mean the best character in all of Genshin is Ganyu and Diona is an amazing support plus Childe is everyone's favorite Bow user besides maybe Venti.
@@mactavish5500 If she would become a catalysts user she would have a charge attack with diffrent ICD and good DMG%. She would be range Hu Tao. Maybe the charge attack would also have AoE. But she doesn't have it and is inferior to catalysts (the reason why i think bows are the worst weapons in the game. This is the reason Yoimiya suffers. She is strong but bows are just bad.
Yoimiya doesn't even have much success in dps either, she's already well known to suffer from being single target when most of genshin is fighting multiple enemies
I main Kokomi, Yanfei and Ningguang. Catalysts are my favorite weapon, yet I completely agree with the points you make here. Hopefully we'll get some improvements in the future
Catalyst is also my fav weapon
I thought Lisa was actually the strongest starter i had, Her lore makes her intimidating, Everyone in mondstadt is scared to mess with her, She deals a large AoE and a very useful burst, Every attacks she makes is infused with Electro and boy i was wrong, She was the first character i switched the moment i found a better one
Catalysts is my favorite also. You have to do their elemental reaction with other catalysts user that make them strong. Yanfei and lisa are a strong combo.
@@kimbaldun I mean to be fair, Lisa is the strongest free dps we get after xiangling. she can do incredible amounts of damage and is very capable of self batterying. The problem with all of the starters is that they are very constellation reliant on getting the best mileage out of them. Kaeya becomes an extremely solid self sustaining dps with a near death shield and solid all around damage on his normal attacks, skill, and burst; Lisa gets the one of the strongest single hit nukes in the game with instant full stacks on switch and tripled burst damage; and Amber becomes a solid nuker with her multi on demand baron bunny explosions and her burst becoming a mini Bennett buff. With constellations they are only slightly below the big 3 supports (xinqiu, Bennett, and xiangling) in overall dps and utility, but they are the three hardest characters in the entire game to receive multiple copies of outside of paimon shop.
I come from future and no hoyo didnt do anything
As someone who almost always goes for the wizard/magic class in RPGs, I just found catalyst characters lack the *oomph* to be used as DPS. The only one I think almost got it right was Yanfei, but even she has flaws.
The one thing I can say Catalysts have above other characters are their homing mechanic. (Except Klee) melee can easily miss enemies that are out of range, archer users know the pain of fighting slimes, but catalysts will at least hit something. Barbara, Mona, Lisa, and Sucrose auto hit 100% and even ignore terrain as long as the enemy is in range. Kokomi, Yanfei, and Ningguang spawn homing projectiles so they can miss or hit terrain but when fighting things like thundering manifestation and cicin mages, they hit more often than Archers will.
Out of all the catalyst, Ningguang is the only one with a projectile Charged attack, while everyone else's can ignore terrain.(idk if Klee ignores terrain, it's literally a diagonal laser)
In my experience, Ningguang's charged attack rarely misses.
Her ult, though..... phew.....
(I still main her)
@Lyswenn I used to play dps Ningguang back in v1.2 Her biggest weakness are the cicin mages where she'd randomly lock on the cicins instead of the mages, and the only solution is to stand as close as possible to the mage, becoming a defacto melee character.
Yanfei's fire locks on to enemies.
@@PowerSpirit50They're still projectiles and can hit other enemies.
NingGuang has the worst attacks amongst all catalyst users. Her attacks are just arrows that ignore gravity. At least yanfei and kokomi are heat seeking. Also I don’t understand why NingGuang’s burst breaks against terrain I mean I get it but this is sooo disappointing to me. I get it it has a Low energy cost but still come on
I’ve been a Ningguang main ever since I got her on Childe’s first banner in 1.1. I think one of the pros are that against enemies like rifthounds, she’s almost guaranteed to hit them because of her homing projectiles. I find that with claymores, swords, and polearms, it’s difficult to hit them while they are midair. Catalysts can also be used as drivers for team comps like taser, where Mona, Kokomi, Barbara, Sucrose, or Lisa can be used as an on-field attacker to apply hydro/electro/proc swirl. Yanfei is also one of the only pyro users besides Yoimiya that can actually use overload because her homing projectiles can hit enemies that are knocked back by the reaction. Finally, catalyst users are also the best at breaking shields because they can apply their elements the fastest.
Catalysts are also very helpful with the specters and eye of the storms too, and I find them to be more fun to use than bow characters at times
And (except for Miko AFAIK) they are no use against ennemies flying high.
Maybe bursts may hit them but that's it. Then you cannot hit anymore to build energy.
Miko's E, though is deadly perfect in that scenario.
Put the totems, open a deck chair, enjoy a cocktail.
P.S. : I had ennemies such as Oceanid eagles for instance.
Catalysts are actually one of my favourite weapon types.
During early game, I found the easy elemental application and auto tracking to be really useful. Especially bc I used to hate the Eye of the Storm, I wanted to find a way to defeat it easily. Yanfei quickly became one of my favourite units to play bc of her fluidity, easy elemental application and incredible range for aerial enemies. I still use her today to farm specter drops.
During mid to late game, I invested a lot of resources into units with off-field bursts or skills, and catalysts were amazing at driving a lot of them into performing reactions. I also liked the fact that they could be more stationary than other weapon types bc I hated using stamina to run to enemies. I suppose the higher charge cost comes from a lower need to run to your enemies, but I'm more experienced with ranged catalyst users, so I could be wrong.
Hopefully with the introduction of Yae Miko and her weapon, we will start to see some improvements to catalyst users. I’m a Klee main and find her insanely fun, but many of my units just massively out perform her which is such a shame because shes so fun to use.
i also built klee but reserve for 1v1 boss (esp flying boss) in abyss only xD not good with mobs unless anemo can drag them because the ult will scatter
I was a klee main but stopped because like you, she was terribly out preformed by my characters like my yoimiya (who I main now)
Man if they fixed the animation lock issues I would go back to Klee in a heartbeat. The bombs are fun and she is just adorable. But at the moment I am using Yanfei because dammit I still like Catalyst. She's fun but not as fun as Klee.
@@MooCow765 nah, yoi is worse than klee
@@andreaolivieri3664 no because of a single reason Range yoimiya has range because shes a bow character klee has shit for range and is sometimes the determining factor between the two not to mention klee is a CA dps meaning she eats up your stamina which is essential to survival even with a shield because shields will break quickly if you just let them tank all of it
my main issue with the catalysts that you can't move while attacking, it locks you in place while characters that use it have low resistances/hp and die/get interrupted many times
This is why I use Yanfei with Zhongli shield. She's able to give good damage and does not get interrupted by enemies
@@_A13ert_ yeah I have to stack geo shield, zhongli, and c4 yanfei just to make sure she lives, but I love using her so much
Sounds great throwing that in the survey
Then there's also that problem with Yanfei where her charged attack misses if the enemy moves which I find very annoying.
Mitachurls and Lawchurls just charge at you randomly and are the worst types to deal with due to this.
actually, with Lisa's auto attack, she could disapear then appear again. I actually dodged quite a handful of times with that.
I still think bows are the worst weapon type on balance. You talk about there being clear 'top-tier' bow users but only one of them (Ganyu) actually uses their weapon at all - and that's only because she has a busted AoE charged shot mechanic that is unique to her, not a property of the bow weapon type itself. Venti is exclusively used for his skill/burst, while Childe is a melee character who happens to hold a bow on the character screen. My point is, none of these characters are good because they use a bow. They are good IN SPITE of using a bow.
Catalysts can at least track their targets with auto-attacks and some of them even have the ability to AoE like a melee weapon. Meanwhile my bow normal attacks will frequently miss even at a moderate distance and using charged shots requires the extra step of manual aiming which can be tricky especially if you're targeting fast-moving targets and/or weakpoints.
big agree
all of the good bow characters have something that makes them unique, ganyu (charged shots, burst), childe (hybrid, his bow sucks imo, his damage does not come from his bow), yoimiya (normal attack pyro infusion)
agreed. physical childe is pure copium, there's a reason he's used for his skill and burst
@@raywa5821 Actually, Childe charge shots can contribute a pretty respectable amount of damage assuming you play him right and follow the proper rotation.
For example, while batterying Xiangling during Childe 's downtime , you can Bennett E, switch to Xiangling to Funnel, Xiangling E then Childe charge shot then Bennett E again for a pretty good amount of vape dmg
Of course, it's not nearly as big as say his burst or full rotatation of his E but I wouldn't say its negligible either
Additionally, it can also be useful in apply hydro for VV shred
thats honestly a pretty good point. I mean yeah Ganyu is busted due to her Bloom shot but Childe could be a sword user and most people wouldnt notice much and Venti is basically just his skill/burst like you said.
Claymores now officially hold the title as the worst weapon type
As a ninguang main I love how she can crystalize almost on demand and is really useful with 4 piece of the geo set. Also it’s easier because you don’t have time elemental skills that turn off when you leave the field which is especially a problem with hu tao since she takes hp from herself so I have to question weather bringing her out is necessary. Also since their are only a few catalyst weapons they are a lot more broad so you don’t need to invest in like 500 niche pole arms (note skyward atlas is my only 5 star weapon). The lost could go one but I will admit the fact their are only 3 (or 4 depending on how you build kokomi) dps catalyst units does make the class inaccessible and it took me almost half a year of playing to get one of the three viable catalyst dpses to main
plus her C1 which is quite easy to obtain literally solves the AOE issue.
I agree! Her crystallize can even generate shields for her so you only really have to dodge the heavy attacks. Her issue on stamina is resolved because of her passive and the aoe resolved because of her C1. I especially like pairing her with Raiden because her every attack can proc shield :D
@@shion275 she is the first character I’m able to use in a co-op domain that I am super under level four because she can avoid attacks and makes shields
I feel a better way to say it would be Catalysts are the weapon type with the worst representation. The worst type, however, I believe is bows. Their basic attacks have garbage tracking.
There’s a reason that the three bow users you mentioned aren’t used like other bow users.
Ganyu playstyle is vastly different from other bows. Venti is used for utility, not his dps. And Childe dps comes from melee more than ranged.
Bows, not taking the characters themselves into account, are objectively the worst weapon type, as they have a far higher chance of just missing entirely and not doing damage at all than any other weapon type.
this is such a good point. most bow users aren't used for their aa just because of how the tracking in this game works. i feel like bows, in terms of autos, loses to catalysts as a few of them have homing properties. but in terms of weapon options, catalysts are so shit it kinda hurts, while bow users are chilling with 5 five stars that are all really useful, and solid 4 stars.
Well said
This is also one thing I noticed with Yoimiya. She's not crap in my opinion, I love her a lot. But damn do the auto attacks sucks. The amount of times Yoimiya missed 10 shots dealing the running treasure hoarders with paddles is honestly making me pull my hair out.
Yeah there’s no point in using charged shots on anyone but ganyu and Sara (only bc it’s required to get the buff). I have venti, fischl, gorou, amber, and aloy at level 4 Normal Attacks and all of their charged shots deal the same 155% per charged shot while sara and diona at level six both deal 174%. It’s all the same multiplier. And you get no AOE from any of these. Yes, they’re all better as supports. But what makes them good is not the bow.
Meanwhile Yoimiya and Phys Fischl are basically the only true NA bow DPSes and hardly anyone uses them because yoimiya has ICD issues and physical falls off late game (except for Eula i suppose) plus building Oz is infinitely better, especially when you have C6.
i questioned this video quite a bit even though i usually enjoy his content (although there are often points he brings up that i disagree with), and i think your comment is why i'm iffy about it. bows and catalysts are both victims of genshin's auto-targeting system, but while the bows auto-attacks are much faster than catalysts, they're more prone to missing, and charge shots are so slow that unless you're playing ganyu they're flat-out not worth using, and they're not for everyone either, with how much of the playerbase is on mobile. bows are also almost exclusively single-target, whereas catalysts can AOE, like klee, yanfei's charged attack, and ningguang's C1.
the bow has several dps units: childe, who doesn't use them at all; ganyu, whose charge attacks are unique and not replicated by any other; physical fischl, which is not viable for endgame; and yoimiya, who despite the current abyss' single target nature and yunjin offering her massive buffs, is still prone to missing her shots and struggles to hit more than one target.
catalysts, on the other hand, have very poor DPS representation: klee, who used to be considered good but is outdated like diluc and keqing now; and ningguang and yanfei, who are 4 stars, and because they're not xiangling they're outclassed by 5 stars. all the rest of the catalysts are used primarily as supports. even yae miko is looking to be more of a sub dps rather than a main one, but her auto-attacks appear to go through more than one enemy at least, which makes me think mihoyo could easily release a top-tier catalyst dps if they wanted.
In the future it would be cool to have "flamethrower" catalyst user.
A character with low but really fast damage application and next to no icd.
It doesn't even have to be pyro specifically.
My main hope is Scaramouche having a charged attack where you just hold down and he stands still, consumes stamina slowly and does electro application constantly, i mean kinda like that old dude in star wars. Cause idk i feel like that on an electro character would be cool and a fun reference.
The closest thing to this rn i think is C6 yoimiya, but id be cool to have someone that has a "hold" attack to replace their charged
@@WonderTheMoon Scaramouche: UNLIMITED POWER!
Have Yanfei and Thoma, activate his burst and switch to Yanfei and do normal attacks. It feels like that she throws flames among her fire balls
Now we have Charlotte, Heizou, Writhsoley, and Neuvillette which he’s one of the strongest. They all take a different approach with gameplay causing them to actually be fun compared to early catalyst users
Charlotte was one of my first pulls. When Lisa kinda put me off to catalyst for being a bit clunky at times, Charlotte now is on multiple team comps. Just too much fun
don’t forget xianyun
3/4 characters on my team are catalysts, and I couldn't be more satisfied. Using Yanfei's charged attacks with Yae Miko's skill creates consistent overloaded reactions. Also, Yanfei is useful for mining, since her skill and charged attack can act as a claymore.
I like how ningguang can use a charged attack with 3 star jades, and those 3 star jades will autoaim to the point, where even if a rifthound disappeared, the starjades will spin around where the rifthound last was, then instantly launch out where he disappeared to.
It's the reason Ning is the most viable catalyst dps tbh lol. Because those Star jades track through EVERYTHING.
@@inaraoftyria3878 yan fei is pretty good too, her attacks are a bit faster, and from my experiences, her damage is also higher. But ningguang looks so cool... and I can use her with Beidou. Plus the new skin. Theres too much going for her :D
lmaooo I love when that happens, the rocks get so confused trying to figure themselves out
That happens with Diona's skill too, not sure who else
@@lyswenn i think just those 2, there are no other skills with that much tracking.
well i like how Ning can actually juggle little enemies
With the current boss being able to teleport everywhere, like the thunder bird or rift hound, having a catalyst user in the team will guarantee that you will land a hit, thats why i feel a little “safer” when i put ningguang in my team. The only set back for me is stamina, and the inability to do charge attack while dodging (it’s either bc i have shitty mouse or slow animation, idk), but tbh i have a zhongli so it doesn’t bother me that much. One thing i love abt ningguang is that her normal attack pierce through enemy’s shield, though it’s just a little bit, not sure other units have the same thing bc i main ningguang for the longest time and lowkey refuse to main other units lol
You do know that Ningguang doesn't consume stamina when she has her little jade stars? Right?
@@lali4794 i know, but tbh that doesnt really help much. I still find myself running out of stamina, since i dont do normal attack often and most of the time she stays on field i do charge attack
@@mizkichan5211 then you're literally wasting her potential and more dmg 💀 but to each to their own.
@@mizkichan5211 It's also that we're constantly dodging as a stationary attacker
As a proud Yanfei main I can say that she feels like playing fighting games but way easier: you just have to have the muscle memory for her attack pattern (imo the best being ult > charge > E > charge) and you can basically animation cancel (I think) without even moving.
Also she screws Oceanid over so hard it's actually nuts
My boy Heizou is awesome! Love to see a catalyst without lock-on.
Yes heizou definitely addresses that catalyst issue. Not to mention his ult can long range and have some CC abilities. Though I just love punching stuff with him. I gave him my lost prayers of sacred winds book that I got from standard banner awhile back. Plus some VV artifacts and he is a beast with his punches. I just might crown him or even triple crown him.
I've mained both Ningguang since I got her super early in the game (AR 55 now) and I think the fact that she's geo makes her a lot better to use. She has easy access to geo resonance, her kit is fairly versatile (burst support for off-field and main dps for on-field) and she doesn't need elemental reactions to make her powerful. Other catalysts like Yanfei and Klee have the problem that they can't consistently vaporize their enemies, but Ningguang just hits people with rocks and does big damage
IMO she's probably the strongest character that doesn't require reactions to make lots of damage, which is the entire reason why I use her almost all the time
Yep. Plus, her heavy attacks and aoe are really convenient for all sorts of content.
And not a lot of people seem to talk about the convenience of Ningguang's charge attack. Her range is insane that her charge atk could still follow the enemy that is currently moving or running away.
The problem i see with catalyst on genshin is because they the old mage vibes from old RPGs with long casting low mobility but packing quite a punch
That would be great if genshin was more co-op focused having the holy Trinity. But with how fast is the game, most of the time no other characters on field to mob the enemies and worst of all: KNOCKBACKS it's pretty hard for the characters to cast long animations charge attacks while having to dodge almost everything because one bitch slap from the enemy and your casting fails
Hello C4 Yanfei, and Geo Resonance Ningguang.
@@mordecai8707 and yet they don't pack a punch compared to powerhouses like Ayaka. In other games, mages are generally top of the pack with insane dps.
@@myst7383 mhm, the only catalyst like that in the game is Lisa. Her skill becomes a nuke second only to Zhongli's, but it's locked behind starter constellations... the hardest cons to get in the game.
I really like the fact that catalyst users are always infused. That said, the only cata user that didn’t feel really awkward to auto attack with imo was Yanfei…
Strange.. her was the hardest Auto attack for me to adjust to of all the catalyst users because she felt... clunky-ish. I guess everyone's different right?
after 4.1 with nevilette and wriothesley, its now clear that hoyoverse is changing how we see catalyst
back then catalyst are basic with elemental blasts for normal attack, and a stonger variant using skills. now, we see hoyoverse is being more creative on how catalyst are used
baizhu does tai-chi
nahida uses a sort of computer mechanics with the mouse cursor and typings for na, then theres teh 2 new characters
neuvilette's charged attack changed form the generic big damage single instance attack with no additive effects, to an outright hydro pump
and wriothesley is basically the 5star heizou being a meele catalyst
thats whats new about catalyst. theyre changing how it works from the "throw your vision aligned attack" to bieng more creative as it makes sense, since catalyst attacks are the manifestation of the user. wrio doesnt use catalyst as a means to shoot ice shards, nahida dont throw leaves, and maizhu too. neuvilette changed the game too with the laser beam charges attack
needless to say, i think hoyoverse is slowly changing the way catalyst work, from this generic mage archetype, to this versatile and way to introduce more fighting styles without adding new weapons. its basically genshin's light cone, where its attached to said character but they use a different weapon altogether like in starrail; who knows we just might get a scythe or battle axe user in a form of catalyst. we already have a power fist user with wriothesley what else would they lose?
Imo, it just comes down to preference. I think catalyst users are way more fun to play than any other class. I just looove using Yanfei as my main dps and I don't see myself using any other class as my main dps any time soon
Different catalyst user has different range & atk speed too. Klee is too melee & slow, mona & lisa are mid in range & speed, barbara mid range but a bit quicker. Then there're Yanfei & Ningguang who has great range, which is best option against thunder manifestation & rifhound who has annoying hitbox & quick movement. In that niche, they are better than melee imo. I swear Barbara taser is just better than Childe taser against rifthound abyss cycle.
If only catalyst users can attack things above their head. Grinding the Wolflord is annoying luckily Itto's CA can reach the boss directly above his head.
I find yanfei surprisingly fun to play, and she’s been my main on my second account for a while now. Even though she isn’t considered the best by most people, she’s still best girl to me lol
@@amirulzamri7833 they can. You can use ningguang to solo the wolf lord and yanfei for the hydro mimic birds.
@@danielbarranco4653 I had trouble battling the Wolflord because only Ningguang's CA works and not her NA. Otherwise Itto took care of the problem so no biggie.
With the exception of Ganyu, none of the "meta" bow users use their normals or charged attacks. Venti/Diona/Gorou/Fischl are all burst/skill dependent characters, and Childe only uses his melee normals, not his bow normals.
I think bow, as a weapon type, is definitely worse than catalysts because it's entirely single target. That's the big problem with Yoimiya, for example.
Honestly true but I still think catalysts are worse in the end. Bows have their fair share of problems too tbh like even though I despise using claymores for their slow attack rate, under every poll it’s always bows the second least popular. Anyways yeah I find it ironic that up until Yoimiya came out the “archer class made up of archers” joke that ran in the community was still true, since all the bow users were famous for everything but being an archer (ganyu’s nuke, childe’s melee, diona’s e and q, venti’s black hole, amber being a lighter and baron bunny, fischl being a machine gun and oz)
You're not saying wrong but in the end catalyst users just fall short on everything compared to all the other 4 weapon types. Also you gave an example of yoimiya being single target that's not that big of a deal if you deal most of the damage fast enough and with the current abyss where most of them are bosses she could destroy everyone easily and with the introduction of yunjin she has pretty much become unrivaled against bosses in terms of single target dps...
Kujo sara
@@seabass8193 c2 non-haver lmao
@@mactavish5500 well you can't really blame people since she's been on 1 banner. Though I do have c2, I just use charge attacks for energy for my Baal sometimes
i think it’s safe to make an update on this video cuz whew the recent catalyst users have made a big name for the weapon type
As a Ningguang main, the most difficult part of being a catalyst user is the autolocking feature. Having no control over where your attacks go is annoying.
However, nothing will ever beat the ease of access that catalysts have to immediate elemental damage.
Its proximity based when working correctly, which is most of the time. Annoying and frustrating, most definitely. But, you can have control over targeting with proper spacing awareness. Still wish theyd change it, but just saying. Edit, the proximity is a cone not a sphere so can lock onto lets say, an enemy way above you thats "closer." also worth noting that a lot of objects that are not just enemies, are also considered in this.
I usually go for the skills if i have to fight several enemies, but i'd rather use her against bosses.
Ningguang is awesome, but niche. One of the few places where she shines is the big doggo boss on Tsurumi Island (Golden Wolflord), where she actually does more damage than my Hu Tao on that boss. Not only she does big DPS on the boss, but makes the mid phase (Rifthound Skulls) super fast.
Ofc, it would've even faster if the auto-aim of catalist didn't suck that much
a ningguang main too (NA and burst crowned), and i agree. theres really not that much use for her especially in abyss as the onfield main dps. and in the rare instances that i still use her, she has been a swap in - drop all skills - swap out character. which is fine she still deals a lot of damage but i kinda regret crowning her NA now and thinking i shouldve just crowned her skill.
@@Redst0neWiz "Proximity based" couldn't have described it better. Not sure how to fix that tho with projectiles.
@@googlrscholar Well if you get c6 then crowning the NA is still worth the extra charged attack and star jade damage.
as someone who mains Yanfei, there are some things that i've learned about them. first of all, each catalyst user that i have (Yanfei, Lisa, Ningguang, Sucrose, and Barbara) seems to have at least one combination of attacks that lead together very cleanly, for example, Yanfei can do three auto attacks then charged attacks which flows very well, looks nice, as well as being her optimal rotation. with Ningguang it's 3 auto attacks, charged attack, with Lisa, it's 2 auto attacks, then charged attacks, with Barbara it's 3 auto attacks, then charged, with Sucrose it's 3 auto attacks then charged. honestly i don't know why it's almost always 3 auto attacks, but ehh, whatever. anyways, back on topic. one of the main advantages for catalyst users that i've found is incredibly fast reactions, due to all of their auto attacks. for example, a team with Xiangling, Beidou, Xingqiu, and Sucrose, you will be getting off a insane number of swirl reactions due to so many elements being applied at once. Catalyst users charged attacks tend to cover a fairly large area of effect, meaning that they do have some crowd control ability. for example, Yanfei's charged attack covers a sizable area and that area only gets bigger with more auto attacks you do (due to scarlet seals, as well as decreasing charged attack stamina cost). As to the main issue of standing still while attacking, this can be easily avoided by having a good shielder such as Zhongli, Diona, Thoma (in theory if you're auto attacking a lot) and Noelle which the game gives us for free. for example, damage wise, the best team comp for Yanfei that i've found is Zhongli (shield+resistance shread), Yanfei (main dps), Bennett (buffer+healer), and Kaeya (elemental application support+sub-dps if Yanfei dies) the main downside that i've personally found with catalyst users is their abysmally low hp stat, however they make up for it with really fast elemental reactions and high damage capacity. to address another issue that you mentioned, mainly that of aiming, i've found that all the catalyst users that i have don't really have any issues with aiming as they either as they almost always target the closest enemy and even if they do miss (which has only really happened to me a few times and has never caused any issues for me) you can usually run up to the enemy that you want to hit, and kill them at a closer range due to catalysts targeting the closest enemy (this wouldn't be a problem due to the aforementioned shield character). ohh yeah! and damage wise, they're pretty broken, as with Yanfei with almost no preparation can pretty consistently hit 30k charged attacks (max i've hit was 70k with a single charged attack and i could easily do like, 5 more), with Lisa at lvl 60 i've hit 20k with elemental skill, sucrose is just broken as we all know due to crowd control, and i haven't messed around all that much with Ningguang and Barbara, but Barbara has the ocean hued clam 4 piece set now, and Ningguang has the Retracting Bolide 4 piece/archaic petra 2 piece and noblesse oblige 2 piece. and one last thing. THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON YOU OR YOUR IDEAS, i am merely providing my own experiences and trying to get a different perspective on this issue. but uhh yeah, that's my experiences with catalyst users and i hope that you enjoy the rest of your day/night and thank you for reading this insanely long comment on a fairly mundane topic : )
Worth noting that 3 autos into charge isnt really Yanfei's optimal attack rotation, 2 autos into charge is and 1 > charge if youre on her burst
I wouldn't say broken. Because they aren't broken. One of the Main issues hands down is lower raw power. With a select few who deal damage on Auto and Charge. Each one is heavily locked to their respective Element. Which most likely forces them to either be DPS or pure support with some Sub DPS support. Their range isn't as far as one would expect from a catalyst. Some enemies you actually cannot hit from being at a distance above you. Which makes no sense. Not to mention their projectile speed is very slow.
You most likely won't use a catalyst auto attacks. Except again. For a select few.
Targeting isn't affected when near an enemy. But heavily is when coming at a distance. Which to be honest. Should allow them to have manual lock on targeting.
Wrote a whole scientific essay on catalyst users in Genshin😭
As a fellow Yanfei main, I agree
Yah you are also right about the low hp of all. Like when i use yanfei she die fast but she give strong combo/attack power. Actually all the catalyst character just balance them all which group you wanted to partner with
Just the other day, I was telling some friends that one of the biggest weakness to catalysts is the fact that the weapon variety is so low. As of right now, there's only four 5* catalysts (with Yae's upcoming will be five) and the only ones worth getting are Skyward Atlas and Lost Prayer. Memory of Dust and Moonglow are both niche catalysts and easily substituted with 4 stars.
Plus catalysts have no true powerhouse in any element, except maybe hydro where they're the majority of that element. Why use Yanfei or Klee when you could use Hu Tao or Diluc? Why use Ningguang when you could use Itto? Why use Lisa when you could use Raiden or Keqing? Even why use Sucrose when you could use Venti or Kazuha? Most of the only thing separating them is the fact that there's rarity differential but outside of that, there's always someone better than the catalyst user - and I say this as a person who's mained Ningguang, Yanfei, and Kokomi.
Overall, MHY has explored catalyst users the least. Heck, we don't even have a cryo catalyst character and we're over a year into the game (which fun fact, there's that Dragonspine catalyst that literally has a passive of bonus dmg to enemies affected by cryo... so it's useless). And it's a shame cuz some of my fave characters are catalysts and i like doing consistent elemental damage.
Diluc is not good brotha. My C0 klee does 10 times better than my C5 diluc.
@@rocketcider7761 I’m glad you’re doing well on Klee. Unfortunately, your one unique experience doesn’t make up for the fact that people would rather use Diluc, a far simpler character, than Klee.
@@reistellae diluc is easy to play to compared to klee, when it comes to abyss runs playing diluc is a bad time. I’ll make my next video a C0 Klee vs C5 diluc.
I dislike the way you say “why use this 4* character when you could use this 5* character” some of us are free2play and/or have bad luck while pulling for characters or simply new to the game, every character is playable and likable in their own way
@@qvasararthouse9743 My comparisons are solely meant to point out the fact that none of the catalysts offer anything unique and can be easily substituted for other characters. Other 4 star characters like Bennett, Xingqiu, and Xiangling offer unique things that elevate them to some of the most used characters in the game so it isn’t fundamentally an issue of spending. I’m personally a firm believer in playing the game however you want; so I continue to use catalyst characters and other “sub par” characters, however, from a meta perspective, none of the catalysts offer anything unique that they excel in.
There's a small arrow that tells you who you are locked on to.
You can change the target by holding down directional key while spamming the attack.
So, by that mechanic, you can focus on a single target by *Not* holding down directional key.
It requires some getting used to, but when you learn it, you won't have a problem with auto-aim anymore.
I have a problem with some of my Catalyst characters, mostly Lisa. Her E doesn't hit Dvalin purple thingy most of the times and her charged attacks have a problem in some terrains. And most of the catalyst have some sort of "aiming" problem which includes Yoimiya's E AA in Rozalyne's Domain(those Cryo and pyro lamps).
In simple words, most of the ranged unit's AA are kinda broken. They sometimes even shoot backwards.
Yep, even though I main Lisa, the only reason why i would bring her to fight Dvalin is her burst. Her E skill doesn't really work there as intended.
Hello CHONGYUN
@@Cogero hsllo
@@thanhtranguyen8255 her charge attacks sometimes too!! It goes to the ground or somewhere else
The fact that catalyst users output purely elemental damage, even while their skill/burst is on cooldown, is one of their biggest strengths. They don't have to waste time tickling the enemy with weak physical attacks while waiting for their abilities' cooldowns to end; instead, they can keep attacking elementally and thereby make efficient use of their elemental damage goblet. Having access to elemental reactions on demand (minus the ICD, which plagues most characters anyway) makes them seriously underrated units.
the thing is, a lot of other units have infusion, and although its on a cooldown, your rotations and other teammates make up for it. so in the end, having infused autos with no downtime isnt unique to them
Actually, the constant elemental application is their biggest weak point for many of them. Due to ICD, you really don't want to apply tons of element if you want to reliably be trigger. This is why Klee really can't be a great reaction dps. Yanfei also struggles to keep from overtaking Xingqiu if you use her as a vaproize character, and you have to use more autos than is her max dps to keep from becoming aura instead of trigger. For electro reactions, you also can't reliably stack EM on one person as they will swap being aura/trigger a lot. The only one who doesn't really suffer this issues is Sucrose, as Anemo is always trigger, so she can stack EM and always get value. This is why she's a common driver in teams like National and Taser. Catalysts in general do not synergize with how a lot of reactions work. Only like permafreeze cryo or anemo really can spam infinite elemental application and not throw off reaction orders (and geo, who's reaction is worthless).
please do another video regarding catalysts becasue hoyo is cooking it and theyre doping it right
catalysts are my fav weapon. they’re so easy to use and versatile plus yanfei is the opposite of clunky her attacks are very smooth and easy to use compared to say mona. it’s good as well because you can attack from a distance whilst doing big attacks without having to aim with a bow
I think they solved most of the catalyst issues with Yanfei when it comes to main dps catalyst.
Stamina reduction on charged attacks.
C4 shield so you dont have to dodge or get interupted.
Good attacks and tracking.
Good flow, not janky like Ninguang.
Some catalyst users move backwards as well, Ningguang and Barbara stand still and Klee kinda stays in the same spot but Kokomi Lisa and Mona all move backwards as well. Also archers and mages have the same auto attack range, it's just aimed bow shots that are obviously longer range.
There's also the problem, I have no idea where this issue lies, where catalyst users will just... stand there. I'll be spamming the hell out of my attacks or I'll start to click and hold for a charged attack and they just stand there and do nothing. IDK what that is.
YES OMG i use my barbara as dps for fun sometimes and this always happens!! The hit doesnt register or smth so i stand there for a solid 5s not doing anything even tho im madly tapping lol
thank you for pointing that out, cuz i was about to say it myself
I like your take here and I'd love to see them experiment with some of your suggestions. I hope we get a purely main DPS focused five star catalyst that both has the mulitpliers and isn't clunky to play. I love playing Kokomi and I think her fluidity (hehe fluid) is great, but I'd love a main DPS catalyst user with the big multipliers who could dish out that big damage.
Catalyst Main here (Yanfei C6), I can clear a few things up about them:
Targetting - Not as bad as you'd think it is as 99% of the time you fight on a flat plain with maybe some rocks or other terrain moving it up here and there (especially Bosses). The only time I can ever think of it is more as an annoying thing instead of being outright detrimental (e.g. she couldn't hit a ranged Hilichurl sitting atop those towers you can't climb (I do have Zhongli to somewhat remedy this now but still).
Charged Attack Stamina Cost - Yeah I didn't even know that every Catalyst had the same massive Charged Attack Stamina Cost and I still know the meme of Yanfei eating Stamina hard which is somewhat mitigated by her C1 but is also balanced out by the fact that its worse in Yanfei's case whose entire kit revolves around doing damage with Charged Attacks. 100% I'd want them to lower it a significant amount seeing as you only have so much Stamina you can spend with the cap that they give you.
Damage Dealing - Its worse in my case since I have 2 Archons on my team (Shogun and Zhongli) but yes, despite Yanfei being my A-Team's Main DPS Shogun constantly has spikes of damage higher whenever I pop her Burst. Its slightly better now since I have her C6 to help her more consistently hit big numbers but still worth mentioning especially since not everyone, even other Yanfei mains have C6.
AoE - I'm not sure how it is for other Catalyst mains but generally Yanfei does do well against multiple enemies because aside from Normal Attacks (which are only really used as fillers to build up Scarlet Seals) her AoE has been pretty good, especially with her passive that does a follow up hit if your Charged Attack crits. Catalyst Mains of other Catalyst Characters follow up in the replies about this specific point.
Overall, good vid :D! I do wish they were more powerful as I've always been a fan of this archetype in general even before Genshin.
I would say their strengths would lie in some of the characters having amazing kits as well as beautiful animations. As well as their ability to spam weak side reactions more frequently than other units who don't have infusions. Their lack of DPS options is disheartening though. I would love to see a Cryo catalyst with a kit like Ayaka's. Catalysts don't really have a niche outside of pure elemental damage which can already be done by other units, so they should focus on their elemental application and maybe make EM more useful for them as it's essentially the "magic power" of Genshin.
LOL Ayaka is basically a cryo mage
@@sesshonuyasha Yeah 😂
@@caelum8160 i only played with her in one of those dungeon events was real jealous of people who have her ALT SPRINT FTW
@@sesshonuyasha HONESTLY, like especially with her sprint and mobility, the knockback effect of her skill, her semi-ranged charged attack, and her incredible burst, she honestly feels like what a catalyst user (mainly a dps or subdps) should be like. Mages in other games usually have their fragility balanced by high damage or AoE, as well ass mobility like teleportation, and not a lot of catalyst users get that. Honestly I think the alternate sprint should be the Catalysts' niche as well or teleportation while sprinting. Running around like that doesn't really feel mage-like.
@@caelum8160 Nice recommendation throwing that in the next survey
We also just havent gotten anymore catalyst users in a long time compared to the others besides kokomi (and yae upcoming), but even kokomi has way more usage than you are giving her credit for here.
I don't know if I'd give credit to kokomi for it though. Without them releasing her artifact set made for her she would of been a 5 star barbara/ qiqi. And qiqi can use it just as well. For kokomi herself i don't have, but i know her jelly fish can be really annoying since you can't move it.
@@HomikaGaming the only character who doesnt completely rely on a set in this game is Xiao
@@HomikaGaming Not true, her new artifact set is only superior in her on-field Taser teams, otherwise you still want to use TotM aka where you're only using her as a healer and a hydro applier, which is the vast majority of her usage.
i used to pair yanfei mona and raiden for a long time and it’s amazing! raiden with her electro shots, mona with her E, doing hydro damage and distracting the enemies, and yanfei far away easily ripping all the enemies apart with vaporise and overload all over the place.
fyi fourth one was jean for physical dmg, anemo dmg/crowd control and healing.
Omg we have the same team the only thing i change often in my team is that i switch shielders and healers
Raiden - Healer/Shielder - Mona - Yanfei
(been using this team for almost 7 months now and I still can't seem to replace them because the synergy of this team for me is just too fun for me)
In the future i might change Mona for Kokomi
Raiden - Kazuha/Venti - Kokomi - Yanfei
In the beginning i was always in desperate need for a 5 star CC character and it looks like my dream is almost finally becoming a reality with Kazuha and Venti having rumours that they will have their rerun soon
As a very happy Klee user, I can confidently say that even without animation cancelling, she's not, in any way, shape, or form, inferior to, say, Arataki Itto or Tartaglia (Both of whom I also have). The thing with the three main DPS catalyst users is the fact that Klee has the range of a melee user, which makes it easier to use her at point-blank range, with almost always will guarantee a hit, but even then, Klee and C1 Ningguang deal AOE damage with their normal attacks, so they can hit multiple enemies at once without the damage dropoff that you see most AOE attacks do in other games. The only problem is Yanfei, who can't AOE unless it's with her charged attack, but she has insane homing ability.
Basically, for the catalyst DPS:
Klee: Close-range AOE damage dealer, can circumvent stamina usage, hardly misses due to close range despite no homing ability.
Ningguang: Mid-range AOE damage dealer, can circumvent stamina usage, has moderate homing ability and will always hit at least one target.
Yanfei: Long-range damage dealer, can reduce stamina usage, has high homing ability and never misses unless there are no targets.
So, yeah. Catalysts don't miss as much as you might think. In fact, some catalyst users like Barbara or Mona literally cannot miss, as their attacks spawn right on top of the enemy. Then there's the close-range Sucrose and the instant-hit Lisa. Kokomi is like Ningguang with her moderate homing ability.
Trust me, MiHoYo has put thought into this. I do agree with the reduced stamina usage, though. Maybe a little bit of a damage boost as well, but that's just my opinion.
Ningguang hits become AoE with a constellation. If I'm correct it is the very first one. As a 4 star you eventually will have it soon enough. My Ningguang is C5 I seldom use her though.
Nice analysis.
Also consider that Barbara belong to those catalysts that can hit though obstacles. Probably Mona too for the reason you tell but I hardly ever use her while Barbara is regularly in my team.
That confidence is severely misguided. Even the characters you even listed can casually drop nukes, not to mention melee users can also hit multiple enemies with an attack. Even if that is equal, the melee characters still have higher damage potential due to weapon variety and maybe higher base damage
You lost me at happy Klee user
IMO every complaint about catalysts in this video has actually been fixed in a way by yanfei (especially at c6) she works well with xq because shes forced to set up scarlet seals for charged attacks, even in her burst despite regenerating seals she still needs 2 normal attacks at c6 or 1 normal at c0 to charge attack with full seals. unlike ninguang her charged and normal attacks are pretty easy to use ive often struggled using charged attacks with ning after normal ones but with yanfei its the opposite shes very responsive. at c6 her charged attack costs 0 stamina with 4 seals. her biggest issue is the fact shes forced to stay still to cast her anvil and she gets interrupted often, but seeing as she gets a shield at c4 its quite clear shes a glass cannon (cant move and has low hp, you really need a shielder for her!) couple her with any cc unit and she can comfortably dish out really good damage to a lot of enemies. i think the issue with catalysts are the characters not the actual game, hopefully in the future we can get more characters like yanfei
True yanfei solos
True but yanfei has her own problems, she can't cancel her own charge attack
ain't yanfei's normals and anvils move faster than xq's rain swords? You'll be vaping with xq not yanfei and vaping xq rain swords doesn't seem like a good thing.
Sure Yanfei fixes them but what about the other characters. They’re still screwed by everything they did to Yanfei
this exactly,,, i triple crowned my yanfei i literally love her sm
I started the game on the first day of zhongli's first rerun and the first character I pulled was yanfei. She is my most sentimental character by far, the first i levelled to 90, my first c6 too and i'm currently trying to minmax her rn. she is incredible. she is super f2p friendly, got some of the smoothest animations in the game and her personality is a joy to watch. I don't see any problems with her. You mentioned doing a "why noone plays" for yanfei and I find that a bit funky considering it is widely agreed upon in the genshin community that yanfei is one of the best 4 star main dpses, and pretty much the entire reason nobody uses her is simply because pyro is oversaturated with 5star main dpses anyways; she isn't going to be your first pick if you have hu tao, diluc, klee or yoimiya. xiangling is one of the 3 broken 4stars that came out with the release of the game so yanfei is overshadowed by her too, but among all the 4star characters i'd say yanfei is a top 3 most well-balanced and executed. she isn't God broken, but she can be in certain situations and she's super fun to play so there's no drawback to her.
she also is one of the most versatile units in the game and was literally the only character who could use overloaded until yoimiya was released, she isn't glued to bennett either like xiangling, not entirely dependent on xingqiu like hu tao or diluc, making her team comps super flexible. the thunder manifestation was practically made for her too. The only thing I think falls short of catalyst characters is their weapon roster; the lack of good catalysts, both 5star and 4star is what makes them an inferior pick. bows have broken shit like the thundering pulse, polar star, skyward harp, amos bow, stringless, polearms have the staff of homa, calamity queller, pjws, dragonsbane, the catch. for catalysts the only genuinely good 5star weapon is the lost prayer which is extremely difficult to get since it's a standard weapon, the others are too niche, even the skyward atlas. the auto aim is annoying but once you play catalyst characters enough it becomes easy to work around it. yanfei's stamina issues aren't even a problem considering her c1, and at c4 she unlocks an entirely new playstyle for variety.
yanfei isn't hard to play like ningguang (i'm currently maining ning in my itto team and i love her but she literally has clunkier animations than klee and ayaka). dodoco is amazing on her too, definitely one of the best 4star weapons in my opinion. i feel like everyone should play yanfei at least once, a lot of people's negative nterpretations of catalyst characters is based on playing one of the clunky ones or one who is tied to being a support, like mona or sucrose, but if you give yanfei a try you'll realise that she is arguably the best catalyst user in the game and that a lot of the problems they face become minimized with her. i genuinely believe that if yanfei was cryo she could be a top-tier main dps and one of the most played characters in the game, sadly she's just in the most damage-populated element.
Yanfei supremacy! That "why no one plays yanfei" surprised me too, because she does exactly what she's supposed to do as a 4*. Her only fault is not having 5* multipliers, and indeed a saturated element.
yeah the main issue with yanfei is literally just: why play her when the strongest pyro dps in the game is free lmao. although i much more enjoy yanfei playstyle to xiangling
i agree, when you unlock her constellation 4 at least, all her drawbacks are basically gone. i had problems w her until i got a widsith and a c4.
Honestly Yanfei is my go to when it comes to grinding ascension materials, like spectre husks and stuff. or fighting the oceanids. for that if you have her at decent investment she is really good imo
Bro make a new video about this
you can circumvent the catalyst animation by actually finishing the the first attack before you initiate the charge attack. If you mastered hu tao's 2 normal + charge attack, you will understand what this means.
Also sucrose does see normal attack play in sukokomon teams where she is there to swirl. And Kokomi sees normal attack during burst to heal. Niche for sure, but it does see play
ever since i got kokomi, i never had to go to any statue of the seven (unless i have to deposit the electroculi i find) lol some catalysts bring so much fun, but yeah some of their mechanics make them quite challenging to play.
7:30 any other catalyst wouldve been usable for this point, but not Klee, so thats an odd choice. Klee can animation cancel and get out her normal and charged attack all in the time it would take to do just a normal, is why i say this. The only exception is, start with Charged, not normal. Shes different, but not worse, in this regard.
6:28 "theres no way to tell who you are locked onto or whether you are in range." In reference to who you lock onto, this is a problem with targeting, not catalysts, catalysts only bring the issue to light more, but is present for a majority of characters who want to aim literally anything like skill or burst. also the targeting is proximity based when working correctly. Example if you start playing in melee range you will only target the enemy right in your face, it will become apparent that its proximity based. A problem yea, just wanted to point out that spacing can counter this annoying issue.
10:47 "theyre objectively worse than bows... " uhh... What? Bow users suffer from some similar issues like targeting and the only super noteworthy ones for dps are those that stray away from bows in the first place. Ganyu they gave insane multipliers. Childe isnt really even a bow user most of the time. And Ventis good because of his utility not because he uses a bow. Bows dont have easy setbuilding due to auto self infusion. Bows dont have amazing damage. Certain chars fix this but bow is still inherently terrible in comparison. You also mention how auto infusion is a weakness? Think about it this way you dont have to worry about anyone overriding your damage, and you know when you put a pyro% cup on klee, 100% of her is benefiting from that.
Tbf i think that despite having the worst units on average catalyst is the best weapon actually, most supports don't care for the weapon type so Bennet, Fischl, XQ, XL, Beidou, all would still be S tier units with whatever weapons they had. Even units that use their weapons like Eula, Xiao and Itto could work as sword or even bow/catalyst users with minor adjustments. The only unit i can see being noticeably worse off with another weapon would be Hu Tao, as the spear charged attack makes better use of the vape procs.
Now just imagine Kokomi, Barbara or Sucrose with no catalyst, it would tank their potential on tazer builds and kill their vape builds, unless they also got some high uptime conversion which is not something most characters have. That said the weapon does have issues, as pointed in the video its sometimes janky and has a overall lower dps (but i would argue that this is not quite fair), and in Klee's case the elemental application can actually be excessive.
Animation cancelling isn't really beginner or average player friendly so generally speaking, that's not a good reason.
"bows dont have amazing damage" tell that to ganyu and childe. And possibily yoimiya. Bows have faster projectiles and longer range. And how does having high multipliers stray away from bows?? Charged shots is part of the bow mechanics so how is that straying away? Machine gun fischl also works wonders and bows in generally has more fluid animations and faster attack speed. and the ability to actually aim. Compare that to the clunkiness and no control in aiming of catalyst dps characters, bows are better.
And yes auto infusion can be a form of weakness because they are basically useless against their own element unlike other weapon types where they can deal physical damage. Yes auto infusion has its benefits like the example you presented but it also has its weaknesses.
@@Pharocidal . In response to your bow reply, why do you think Ganyu Childe and Yoimiya speak for all bow's damage? When i say bows do not have amazing damage, i mean bows themselves. Drawing a distinction between bows (which are a bad weapon type, clunky, low damage, bad projectile tracking/homing etc,) vs bow users. That distinction needs to be made because it is several bow users who are good, not bows themselves. Ganyu because she just breaks the damage ceiling wide open as a bow user. Yoimiya for similar readons. Childe because he ditches his bow completely. Please tell me with a straight face that bows are high damage just because Childe technically has a bow he doesnt even use.
@@Redst0neWiz well same can be said for catalysts, wouldnt you say? Low dmg, clunky, bad tracking, etc. At least bows have aimed charged shots that doesnt consume a 3rd of stamina and can deal damage to any enemy. You can also move while charging your shots unlike catalysts that leave you open to attacks with its slow animations. Bows might not deal the highest dmg but they are better than catalysts.
the reason bows are better than catalyst is cause they dont take away stamina, idk what you all are bullshitting here for... its that simple... you might say that bows take time to charge but than think about catalyst... most the chars need charge too.... so yeah catalyst would be on the same playong field if the stamina cost was removed.... srsly people, stop using words you dont even understand
After almost a year and a half, I doubt this "Catalyst is the weakest weapon argument" still holds anything. Claymore feels more fitting to be called as the weakest weapon type now.
We already have catalyst characters that holds top slot in their field. Meanwhile, most claymore users showed lackluster potential in any of their field.
One thing I like about using Catalyst units is when it is in Co-op. It just feels right to use them when its Co-op, as your teammates tries to body the damage oncoming to you as well giving them support by elementals application, debuffs, heals, or outright DPS. But in a single player, Catalyst starts to show its flaws; they're meant to be back of the action, not in front of it.
I find it quite funny how catalysts are automatically the best support weapon type in the game yet automatically the worst dps weapon type in the game
personally, i love catalyst users bc you can build them with elemental mastery and elemental damage more than atk. sure, atk still matters but for me it's so much more fun to pile on the em to see the Big Numbers. plus, they really came in handy during the raiden shogun fight because they could still proc reactions and elemental damage without the use of their skills or bursts
Me too, i really love catalyst player 🥰
You don't have too close to enemy for attacking them 😅
Watching this 2 years later and catalysts got an insane dps buff 😂😂
one quick way to see where catalysts stand is to actually implement a manual lock on and giving them the same range as bows. that way, you remove the flukes, you get a good range (without aoe damage to avoid the opposite situation where catalysts > bows ) and then act from there. they could even make the catalysts the "claymore" of ranged combat, high power with slow speed.
let's face it, the targeting system is terrible and not because it's automated but because it can't keep up with most of the mobile enemies.
Don't set up my girl yae miko right before her banner like that 😭😭
I've mained Yanfei ever since I got her. I find her really easy to use, and when you get Scarlet Seals the charged attack stamina cost becomes less of a problem. I've also tried seeing how slow her fireballs are, and they've always seemed pretty fast to me. (In case anyone asks, I did switch her weapon from Lost Prayers to something else to see if it was slow, and it wasn't) that may just be me though. But the best thing I like about catalysts is that they're super easy to build. If I'm going to have a DPS, I want to be able to use all their attacks. I've always struggled with building characters that didn't get an infusion as a DPS because I was always trying to be able to use both normal and elemental attacks. But when I built Yanfei it was actually pretty easy, since it was just pyro damage.
Although I'm probably just weird, I also disregard critical hits and just see crit substats as a nice bonus.
I like how you can make any catalyst character a healer with prototype amber and healing artifacts! In my hu tao team I use xinqiu, zhongli, and ningguang with noblesse set and prototype amber. She heals enough for my team and her burst has a very low energy cost so I can always get the noblesse buff. I hated catalyst characters at first (using them) but I’ve grown to like them a lot, at least visually. Yanfei can very powerful if built well and sucrose is one of my favorites.
feels like yanfei has pretty much none of the said issues especially as her constellations grow
her kit wants you to build stacks via normal attacks, and from normal3 her CA flows very smoothly
by normal 3 you would've proc'd XQ twice giving plenty of hydro to vape both parts of CA
CA is aoe
her stacks reduce her stamina consumption esp at C1
her normals home in
C4 also fixes her problem of wanting to stand still and opens up a pyro shielder playstyle for her
C6 allows her charge attacks to not cost any stamina at 4 stacks
No catalyst user has BIS 5 star weapon btw. Mihoyo just decided that catalyst shouldn't be dps since yanfei's release. Hopefully yae miko with her personally designed weapon can change this
Even Yae is not a main dps but a sub main since she don’t need field time, you only swap back to plop totems or Q for a second.
Eh Ning's BIS is Dust in some circumstances. I main her. Was running her on Widsith, but with Zhongli, and her Cr/Cd ratio being taken care of with some pretty okay artifacts, dust consistently outdamages all her other options. Not that I'd recommend pulling for Dust because it's really only good on her. I got mine pulling for Polar Star (got 2 of them before I got Polar Star, and it's the only 5* weapon I refined immediately instead of holding onto it to keep 2 to use on different characters because it's literally only good on Ningguang)
kokomi with her donut: 👁👁
@@rei.glynne tbh the problem with the 5* catalysts is the universal ones aren't the best one for anyone. the donut is Kokomi's BIS but like...who else are you using that on???? Memory of Dust is Ning's BIS but like...it's not good on ANYONE ELSE.
@@inaraoftyria3878 oh i see. i get your point, but like i was making a joke on op's comment on "there's no 5* BIS for catalysts btw" 😅
idk if ur being aggressive or rude to me, but honestly ur comment kinda threw me off, lol. if i wanted to converse with you, i would've mentioned ur yt handle.
anyway, i just wanted to say a lighthearted joke :')))
Hm, this is interesting. I'm a self proclaimed "catalyst main" and main yanfei and regularly use sucrose and kokomi. Yanfei's attacks are fairly fluid in my opinion and her autolock has never bothered me. She's never missed a hit for me since her attacks lock on and follow their targets. I find them more powerful as they easily apply their elements with just normal attacks. Idk, im sure catalyst users have their problems but I've never found their playstyles to be a problem. I'm just not a physical dmg person.
As a person who used to main Yanfei on an alt account early game I have to say that I rarely (if ever) had targeting issues. My main problem were her charge attacks. Her normal attacks were very fluid and I loved them. But the charge attacks took so much time and they were often interrupted which really irritated me. I know I could have used a shield but the only shield character I had was Noelle and my Yanfei was at c1. I didn't want to give up a spot in my team cause I really liked the one I was running back then (I think it was Yanfei, Bennett, Fischl and Sucrose or Kaeya)
I'm interested in this, since i rarely notice any issues with catalyst, becuase the gameplay just sits so well with me as a Sucrose main. Even tho i do sometimes experience stamina shortage, but that's the only thing i can think of that's really that bad. Otherwise i genuienly don't see anything wrong with catalysts
SAME!!! I was like "wait there is a problem with Catalysts? Huh? Where?" I am a proud Ningguang main since her first banner and I literally never had a single problem with a Catalyst.
But maybe my opinion doesn't matter since I noticed that Vars most often talks about "late game" aka. Spiral Abyss... even tho IMO late game right now should be Enkanoimya since it's the area you get to last, not SA.
And yes in Spiral Abyss Catalysts aren't as great, but oftentimes I feel like youtubers (like Vars) rate characters almost competitively. For example I just got Ganyu and I am building her, but I will use Ning more since she's my main and already people on Reddit started being toxic to me in the comments for that since "Ning is trash in Late Game". Yeah spoiler alert, my goal isn't to replay SA Floor 12 until new SA appears like most of those guys that were toxic to me. Getting off topic...
I feel like if you are comparing Catalysts to Spiral Abyss, they are trash. If you are comparing Catalysts to the actual REST OF THE GAME besides that one area, Catalysts are completely fine.
@@Ageron2655 most people when talking about late game mean the stuff that you have to work towards for a long time at the very end of the game, also you can complete Enkanomiya and do all of the content to be seen in there much much earlier than most people can 36 star. I wouldn't consider Enkanomiya end game content because it can be accesed at around ar 40 I think? which I consider to be early ar (almost ar 58 as of posting this comment), but also because I think most end game content should be repeatable (like the spiral abyss)
@@zedith6045 I'm Ar35 and I'm at enko so:/ not late game stuff, rather just a region you can go through in 2 days time
Same. As a sucrose main, my main problem is that it's extremely easy to get interrupted by enemies while trying to do charged attacks
@@Ageron2655 im a player who enjoys abyss a lot, and the thing with abyss really is that if you dont have well-invested characters you have to take "meta" into consideration if you want to atleast be close to a full clear. and sadly for ningguang shes just not in the meta really.
not going to stop me from using her tho. she has a really strong burst damage especially against a single target. easily hitting 6digit damage on the ~5 secs shes on field that doesnt require any setup at all doesnt sound bad really.
As a Ningguang main, i agree that her attack animations needs to be fixed. I don't get how she attacks as fast like a claymore user when she's holding a small book. Her C1 makes her normals become AOE but the area is so small that it's almost negligible.
Great video, the funny thing is that my main dps has been Yanfei with Diluc as my number 2. Those two got me through most of the story content right up to Inazuma.
every catalyst user: use magic to blast enemies
Heizo: me punch
Unrelated, but I hope there'd be more catalyst designs bc they could literally be anything
i’m thinking of like, a mirror maybe? i can see a fontaine catalyst user using a mirror. or scrolls? i thought inazuma would introduce scrolls but maybe sumeru could?
What do you mean by they can be literally anything?
@@eulalawrence4885 catalysts aren't actual weapons, not the way the other 4 tend to be. They are either books or something else. what kind of book they are seems kinda irrelevant, (klee's is a childrens story book, widsith is like a psalter, mappa mare is a bunch of maps and charts) Then for the 'something else' they are usually Jewels or gems but there's no real limit to what that might be (solar ring is some strange device, memories of dust is a puzzle, hyakushin ring is literally just a thing)
@@eulalawrence4885 idk it's just a floating thing that doesn't affect gameplay so it can be more flexible with designs
yae miko has a cool one
I agreed with almost everything you said until you started talking about Sucrose. She is most definitely not "budget Kazuha" and only ignorant people believe that. There are times where she is straight up better than him. A Sucrose with thrilling tales will increase your damage more than a Kazuha in a reaction based team, with the exception of if you can swirl both elements with Kazuha, which most people don't bother doing anyway. The buff they provide is extremely similar regardless, and it's statements like this that make Sucrose a still very underrated character. The worst part though is that you completely ignored the existence of a very meta team which is taser. You cannot replace Sucrose with Kazuha in a taser team, because her normal attacks are actually an integral part of the team's damage. Sucrose is actually such a strong unit and very comparable to Kazuha, assuming you don't have him C2+
Good points, but you can slot Kazucha in taser.
If you have c6 XD
@@offnet6934 C6 Kazuha... more frequent thing than a C1 Barbara or Noelle right? :D
I agree.
How about kokomi fischl beidou kazuha? Kazuha Q can still proc swirls onto electrocharge enemies. With kokomi And beidou AOE, electrocharge can be placed on a group of mobs for kazuha to swirl.
@@philkersonchong9848 The team still works but it's still not as good as Sucrose because swirls proc less often and he doesn't share EM to the others until C2, which means less reaction damage.
(Don't 100% quote me on this, I'm just pretty sure)
This didn't last long huh ?.
I main yanfei and I just feel like doing charges attacks one after the other is really satisfying. I also use zhongli so I don’t have to move and the convenience of applying pyro for elemental reactions is nice.
Actually, there’s a setting (that is set to off at default) that can help alleviate the core problem of catalysts. It’s the “Combat Camera Settings” - it pans the camera in an angle that shows your current character and target similar to a fighting game’s view. I’ve mained Sucrose for quite a while and that helped me so much.
Though it doesn’t work as good with some characters like Yanfei and Ningguang since they are projectile types- their projectiles would change targets mid-flight for some damn reason and end up missing. But the issue of having no clue which enemy your character is about to aim at is definitely minimized.
Fair warning.... the camera mode can potentially make people feel sick because it will *quickly* hard swivel around to your target
@@reik0suave71 Yea. That often happens when your character is not facing your target at first. Character would spin to its direction- bringing along the camera angle. Keqing could trigger this wildly because of her skill.
"sucrose exist only to use her E"
No offence, m8, but her strongest party is Taser, where she is the on-field attacker. The ability to swirl with only ICD restriction is bonkers
yeah but her normals do like no damage they are just to swirl and spread electro sooo
@@Djirifoekrkfkf isn't that enough? You're underestimate how strong her normals are in this team.
@@Djirifoekrkfkf swirling with normal attacks already does more than the average crit built NAs of more or less half of Genshin's cast then add AOE elemental reactions that scale off Sucrose's stats.
@@paolocarreon8329 yeah I was being dumb lol
@@Djirifoekrkfkf that's because she is the drivers not the main damage dealer, the sub dps like fischl beidou xingqiu do the damage off field
This video might need an update with the introduction of Wanderer and many other catalysts and catalyst's wielders, it would be amazing! #VarsII
"anyway, I started kicking"
- Heizou
Yes I love heizous gameplay. I may have used heizous punching on Albert for stalking Barbara.
"sucrose exist to mainly use her elemental skill and burst"
sucrose taser team mains would like to have a word with you
Literally this, it's such a big oversight as tazer is one of the strongest comps in the game
“Mainly” that is the only team comp where her normal attacks are used
Catalyst is my favorite weapon type in the game, I main Yanfei and soon will have three catalyst users in my team (Yanfei, Ningguang and Miko)
I’d say it’s really up to preference in game style, animation canceling and getting used to the character.
Personally, I would not trade my catalyst girls for anyone else🥰
I have 3 catalysts on my team and honestly it has worked out so far. It might be because I'm not that high of an AR rn catalysts, especially yanfei and Lisa have served me really well in my battles.
thanks for this video! a lot of people said that catalyst ONLY sucks because you cant cancel animation. but you covered a lot! thanks
To the question of what some positives are, you mentioned high stamina costs, but the only catalyst users actually designed to be kept on-field and use charged attacks in the first place (besides Lisa, the most poorly-designed character in the game) have mechanics to reduce stamina cost on charged attacks. Ningguang's charged attacks are free if she has at least one stack of star jade, and Yanfei's get cheaper for every seal she has, up to 4 seals and (iirc) 60% reduction at C6, which she can repeatedly hit and essentially maintain during her burst uptime (which is potentially 75% compared to Hu Tao's 56% for example). Other characters that use charged attacks (Barbara and I think Kokomi, who use them to heal more than for damage) instead have charged attacks speed up their following normal attack string to compensate for the cost, making them much higher-value overall (and reducing the time the character has to be on-field). Also while auto-targeting is an issue, it's an issue for everyone except bow users (gonna go back to Hu Tao again, she gets hit harder by this than any other character imo, including catalyst users; I main C0 Hu Tao on one of my teams on my alt, so I'm acutely aware of her weaknesses), and unlike bow users' normal attacks (which are also limited to about the same range as catalyst users with projectile attacks, though catalysts actually come in all ranges unlike other weapon types, from short range klee to non-Ganyu bow aimed shot range ningguang), most catalysts have either true hitscanning (where once the hit scans it's guaranteed to hit) or strong homing (where projectiles can turn 90 degrees to hit an enemy that moves), so unlike Yoimiya or Fischl getting cucked by a jumping slime, you just don't miss shots as a catalyst 95% of the time.
In general weapon type can not hold characters back. Movesets are too varied to honestly believe that a character is limited by their weapon type; Weapons are just cosmetic. The only real impact weapon type has on character effectiveness is the weapon selection (in general catalysts do have pretty poor 4* options compared to other weapon types, while polearms have the 3* white tassel for example, and if you count it claymores have the serpent's spine, another incredibly good weapon). However, new weapons are released all the time, so that is technically a temporary problem (for example Yae's upcoming weapon is probably also Ningguang's best in slot, though new craftables when a new region drops will probably always be the most exciting thing going forward).
An interesting note in that vein, however, is that at the time of writing this, certain characters are specifically held back by their weapon type. Polearm may have the best or second best characters overall (sword might be arguably better with options like Bennett and Kazuha), but Yun Jin is definitely held back by being a polearm; If she had the same kit as a claymore she'd have the free to play Whiteblind and the incredibly powerful 5* Redhorn Thresher that would synergise perfectly with her kit, but she literally has synergy with NO polearm (no, Deathmatch doesn't synergise with her, because her Q doesn't snapshot and Deathmatch's defense bonus is only applied while she's on-field). Of course there will almost definitely be a defense polearm EVENTUALLY, which will also be a Yunjin buff and by extension a buff to many other characters via Yunjin's powerful support ability. By releasing such a powerful support character with no viable weapon options Mihoyo has left a fine-tuned buff on the table for the future which could upend the meta overnight, probably a smart tactic overall.
Spears are, in general, the fastest weapon type, not balanced in all regards. Obviously Xiao, Hu Tao and especially Shenhe are slower than other spear users, but even other slower spear users like Yunjin attack faster than most sword users. They also have more reach than claymores for the most part (especially Zhongli, Thoma and Xiao; The first two are tall which also helps their reach of course, but Xiao just has massive reach on normals during his Q as well as a huge AOE on his plunge). Of course, as stated above, weapon type is mostly cosmetic and thematic, so while polearms tend to attack faster than other weapon types, that doesn't mean there can't be characters like Shenhe that attack slowly, or even polearms with very short reach.
Catalysts actually function like three weapon types, at least so far, based on region. MOST Mondstadt catalysts (barbara, sucrose, mona, lisa; but not klee) hitscan enemies for small bursts of damage, Liyue catalysts (ningguang, yanfei) fire homing projectiles that build up charges for enhanced charged attacks, and Inazuma catalysts (kokomi, yae miko) are summon-based, summoning spirit animals with irregular flight paths that attack enemies. Also though Ningguang acts like a Liyue catalyst user (granted our sample size excluding ningguang is 1, yanfei), she doesn't actually use her catalyst, same as klee. Not really important to how she functions, just an interesting note; Ning's power comes entirely from her vision (except for the jade screen and plunging attack, probably because plunges are generic to all catalyst users in the latter case).
Hu Tao isn't as good as you think she is. She's probably still the most overrated character in the game at the moment. Even at C1 with Staff of Homa and Shimenawa (partially overcoming the inherent flaw in her kit, which is that half of her damage comes from her burst which also heals her ruining her buff if it hits more than one enemy, which it needs to for maximum damage potential) she's underwhelming, being hard-locked to 56% damage uptime which effectively halves her DPS. She's an A-tier swap-in swap-out support that provides a nice crit rate bonus and some pyro DOT and a B-tier main DPS that only functions reasonably well if you have another on-field character with a rotation that matches up well with hers (which doesn't actually exist at the moment; the closest is actually a catalyst user, Ningguang, who has a 7 second swap-in burst rotation every 12 seconds beginning at the second second in her 7-second rotation, giving her a 13-second total rotation compared to Hu Tao's 16-second one; however, her 7-second active rotation fits perfectly in Hu Tao's 7-second downtime). At the level of investment required to make it work you can run an on-field Ningguang or Yanfei and she'll do better, let alone an off-field Xiangling and on-field Tartaglia, so yes, I will absolutely claim that Ningguang and Yanfei are better than Hu Tao (as DPS, anyway; support is debatable).
Lastly, I think you underestimate Ningguang and Yanfei. Ning's non-reaction aoe damage parallels that of non-Cryo, non-Xiangling reaction-based main DPSs, and her single-target damage can really only be matched or surpassed by Ayaka and maybe Fischl or Yoimiya with Yunjin support (assuming C1 5*s and C6 4*s in all cases, which I think is a reasonable rule for comparing character effectiveness; I used to consider only C0 5*s but there's this alarming trend of many 5*s that require C1 for basic functionality, which started all the way back with Hu Tao, without which they're worse than most 4*s of a comparable role). Yanfei is a bit weaker than Ningguang but much faster and technically has the strongest shield in the game (held back by being a pyro shield instead of a geo shield) as well as access to Pyro reactions. During her Q she can vape or melt her max level C consistently, allowing her to circumstantially surpass Ningguang. Just because the meta (as in, the whims of the playerbase as well as the characters favoured by the current meta) doesn't favour them doesn't mean they aren't good. Barbara sadly just isn't that useful; At most she can save you from a reset in a nearly-botched abyss run with her revive, otherwise you need so little healing that Barbara being an exceptional healer with her Q just isn't actually that important.
Agree with all of your points, and I do indeed think that Hu Tao is extremely overrated, but she's not THAT bad. Her downtime is managed similar to other units like Tartaglia, Xiao, Itto, Raiden and Yoimiya, where you rotate through all your supports, which you HAVE to do either way for maximum damage, and once you switch back to her your E should be up again. I also don't think that she's beaten by Ningguang and Yanfei in singletarget, but I could totally see them beat her in AoE situations.
I can't speak for Yanfei, but Ningguang is indeed severely underestimated. Her comps rival most of my "meta" teams in single target, which is the majority of the difficult abyss content nowadays, mainly due to her only "required" synergy being Zhongli, and she can just run top tier Sub DPS characters like Albedo and Fischl for huge overall team damage.
Looking at how our newest catalyst user Yae Miko works, I feel like they've given up on making better catalyst auto attack/targeting. Here you go spam E and Q and the totems are gonna do their thing.
I’m often a Yanfei main, and since I don’t have many electro characters I usually swap between her and Lisa for Overload. Yanfei is very fun to play imo and the auto tracking works pretty well (in combat at least, torches are a different story 💀). I don’t have much issue with fluidity most of the time, although sometimes I think I don’t hold down the button long enough for a charged attack and she just stands there, but otherwise I love her as a long range damage dealer. It’s really satisfying blowing enemies away with her seal and overload lol.
I did find Ningguang super awkward to play, but overall I think I find bow users worse than catalyst users bc of how I suck at aiming/dodging and how you need to be in Aimed shot mode to have consistent application of elements. I’m sure that’s partly me not knowing how to use characters effectively though.
tbh when you said Childe in the beginning I was so confused, I honestly forgets he is a bow user sometimes
I only have Klee as a pyro DPS and I love her play style.
Something about Catalyst characters is that they are the best at breaking shields, they have permanent infusion of their element so they can constant destroy shields with no downtime.
I think the problem of Ningguang and Yanfei isnt that they're catalysts. They're pretty solid DPS chars, their problem is rather that almost noone uses 4* DPS as their main DPS. 5* get marketed better, get weapons made for them and even artifact sets specifically made for them. They just aren't flashy enough and dont get enough attention from Mihoyo.
I use Ningguang as main DPS and people are mean to me... Like I am just trying to have fun with the game, stop bullying me for playing Ningguang instead of Diluc or Ganyu. *sad face*
@@Ageron2655 at this point people would bully you for playing Diluc aswell lol
@@merc3445 That's very true :D Unless you play one of the 10 Meta characters in the one build they worship, it's wrong and you deserve bullying.
I am sorry for coming off as negative. I am just tired of... toxicity for "not playing competetive"
I like to use ningguang with lost prayer in overworld as she has fast movement, ore detection, convenient with range and auto targetting and the dmg is just enough to obliterate those enemies alone so no need to switch characters much but in spiral abyss, she is a dps loss as everyone requires strong dps, combos like buffs or applying elements for offensive reactions and use their E so everyone can get their energy up for next rotation.
@@Ageron2655 All power to you. I really like both Yanfei and Klee and get bullied for it, so I know how you feel.
this is kinda funny considering now that Dendro is out we got an OP as fuck catalyst character lol. plus it technically buffed Beido now since she's electro....
If you look above the energy bar of the opponents you will see a white triangle pointing down, this lets you know who you are targeting. If you pause at 6:39 you will see it above the Lv. 74 on the Fatui agent. I main Mona with the help of Raiden shogun E skill she uses Lost Prayer to the Sacred Winds (only 5 star I have). She usually kills everything before the passive starts but it's good to know if they aren't already dead they soon will be! Great vid
Did you forgot about Taser Sucrose? Top Meta team with a catalyst user as the driver.
I own every catalyst user (since 2.4) and being honest, the play style feels janky
Ex. My main DPS for about 3 months was Klee and her play style was more or less like a tank and DPS because she has to be on the field to get the most damage of her burst (I don't spend money for 5 star constellations).
Weapons for catalyst users also kind of suck, I just got lost prayer and it didn't feel like it did anything (I still am trying to figure out how it works, though, so take this with a grain of salt)
LP enciurages to be on field beacause of the passive but hey, only klee, yanfei and maybe ninguang are popularly used that way, and even then. the time to get full use of the passive is kinda really long, and I can't remember if it can be kept just like serpent spine one.
@@mrmanolomax7328 16 secs but it’s different coz you need to stay on field for that long just for the full buffs but swapping removes stack iirc so it’s a really bad weapon that’s why even pros hate it.