When I was young, there was a man who infiltrated several churches in the area. Getting baptized in several and wanting to work with the kids. We found out he was not who he said when his picture was on the front page of the paper. He had been caught inappropriately in another church. Our bishop felt that he should not have a calling in the youth, so fortunately no one in our church was harmed.
Brother Stephen, this is such an important topic and I'm so glad that you're covering it. I like the swiss cheese analogy. And Sister Roach gave another reason why boundaries and families are important. I look forward to more interviews with her.
This originates with a guy named James Reason. In the early nineties he used it to find where there are systematic failures; typically with over-sight or people not following prescribed rules within the organization. It’s a frequently used tool in Aviation.
A church that acknowledges a safety issue within their body, and creates policies to address it, is a church more focused on following the doctrine of Christ than protecting predators. Maybe these policies came later than they should have, but some aren’t even looking at it. I’m grateful children will be protected as much as they can be among wolves because our leaders didn’t turn a blind eye.
I think the safest thing is no adults or age disproportionate people should be alone with our youth. Ever. Period. All stop. For our social organizations, like church, scouting, etc. And this should be harshly and brutally enforced. NO EXCEPTIONS. Anyone caught doing it is banned for life. Anything short of this in our churches, etc., just doesn't cut it. I am a survivor of such abuse in both a Catholic and LDS setting, in my youth. We have failed our youth for a long time now. This has to stop. In an LDS context, there should be no one-on-one interviews, period. There should be no interviews on sexual explicit behavior, period. Here's how to go about that: For temple / "worthiness" interviews, 1) Explain, in general terms, what the law of chastity is. 2) Then simply ask, do you obey the law of chastity? A simple yes or no question. 3) If answered yes, great, if answered no, great. No follow-up explicit questioning, period, ever. If no, lay out a pathway to repentance. This isn't hard. And it's absolutely mind-boggling and disgusting to consider WHY (I wish I could type the WHY in 1 Billion Size font!), WHY the @#$%* haven't we been doing this all along? Uggghhhh, so many lives ruined, harmed....Can you tell this pisses me off?
@@rodneyjamesmcguire Thanks Prophet rodneyjamesmcguire , you left the faith and are trying to tell them how to run something you left, makes sense to me
Religious trauma & abuse is rampant and the reality & effects of abuse often gets spiritually bypassed. I wish leaders would have ears to hear the reality of harm and hurt that exists. I deeply desire leaders locally & globally be trained in more empathy skills as well as trauma-informed care. Leaders can not take the place of trauma therapists but many leaders end up doing more harm because of their ignorance. I have longed to help the Church address and alleviate harm but so much is ignored or "forgiven" -- especially without real change. We are bleeding members (particularly women) and I truly believe it could be triaged -- esp. if more women could be in rooms where decisions, policies, and impact occurs.
The other problem with reporting is if you do not have 100% proof that it took place.. If people think the abuser is safe, wonderful, and upstanding, won't believe you. They think you are crazy and will dismiss the accuser. Sometimes the predator portrays themselves as such a good friend to the family and the child as so troubled and they are the only ones helping them that leaders will assure the predator has access to the child, no matter what the parent does.
You report it to law enforcement and let THEM figure out if it's true or not. That's not your decision to make. Take steps to protect the innocent children, and they can handle it from there.
There's a lot to this. There was a man convicted of molesting children in my church growing up. My father took me aside and asked if he'd done anything to me. My reaction was shock and I couldn't believe it, he was such a nice guy, he was one or my hero's... Thankfully, he hadn't done anything to me, but in retrospect there was at least one situation were I may have been briefly evaluated by this man. Scary thinking of what could have happened. My point is it could can be extremely difficult to recognize and abuser.
Background checks periodically, and multiple leaders with all children. Perhaps 3 or 4 adults per group of kids, and maybe a parent or 2 who can volunteer to come, too.
The church doesn't have an abuse hotline. They have a legal protection hotline that protects the church legally. They're more concerned with the reputation and financial state of the church than they are with protecting vulnerable and abused people.
@@stevenelzinga8650 ask your bishop or stake president where their phone calls goes when they report abuse. Also also ask them of any situations they've heard of where a bishop or stake president phoned the police on someone when abuse was reported. The phone call goes straight to kirton mcconkie.
There is a legal system that the church uses to help leaders. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t victim advocates. The poster is presenting it as a forced “either” “or” when both can be true at the same time.
@@stevenelzinga8650 I literally phoned the hotline number yesterday. Goes to a church office. I asked her if she then hands off the call to kirton mcconkie and she said yes. Nervously. I saw the section in the church handbook telling bishops and stake presidents to immediately call the hotline of abuse is reported. The church legal team gets the info first, which is an advantage for the church. The church local leadership almost never phone police and the church handbook also encourages LDS not to sue each other. Think about all this together. Ultimately it keeps abuse stories away from the legal system and helps it stay in the bishop's office and makes it so that few people know about abuse, one of those parties being church law firm and not the police or legal system.
This is such obvious desperate apologetics for the despicable current official LDS church. 1. You realize that there still are abusers with a criminal history right? They would catch people by checking records. 2. Why isn't the Spirit showing LDS leaders to not pick abusers for callings with children? 3. Why does the church continually HIDE abuse and cover for an abuser? I donno how many times I've seen where an abuser kept their calling and was defended by local leadership and sometimes they continued to abuse while in that calling.
@@stevenelzinga8650he has no idea. These are just accusations pulled out of his rear end. The problem is that people like this read a couple of Instagram posts and think they have a JD and are subject matter experts. It's laughably sad.
@@davevine22the problem is actually people like you that don't want to admit that there are some serious crimes being covered up in the church to protect the churches name. They should be protecting the victims, not the pedophiles. What you have is called cognitive dissonance... open your eyes
Another reason why the church is true… lots of things we do in the church and we may not agree with 💯…. By being obedient with a complete faith that Christ is the head of this church, that’ll help us avoid being led astray.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was young, there was a man who infiltrated several churches in the area. Getting baptized in several and wanting to work with the kids. We found out he was not who he said when his picture was on the front page of the paper. He had been caught inappropriately in another church. Our bishop felt that he should not have a calling in the youth, so fortunately no one in our church was harmed.
What a great perspective. Thanks for sharing your insights and testimony!
Brother Stephen, this is such an important topic and I'm so glad that you're covering it. I like the swiss cheese analogy. And Sister Roach gave another reason why boundaries and families are important. I look forward to more interviews with her.
She’s pretty awesome.
This originates with a guy named James Reason. In the early nineties he used it to find where there are systematic failures; typically with over-sight or people not following prescribed rules within the organization. It’s a frequently used tool in Aviation.
A church that acknowledges a safety issue within their body, and creates policies to address it, is a church more focused on following the doctrine of Christ than protecting predators. Maybe these policies came later than they should have, but some aren’t even looking at it. I’m grateful children will be protected as much as they can be among wolves because our leaders didn’t turn a blind eye.
I think the safest thing is no adults or age disproportionate people should be alone with our youth. Ever. Period. All stop. For our social organizations, like church, scouting, etc.
And this should be harshly and brutally enforced. NO EXCEPTIONS. Anyone caught doing it is banned for life.
Anything short of this in our churches, etc., just doesn't cut it.
I am a survivor of such abuse in both a Catholic and LDS setting, in my youth.
We have failed our youth for a long time now. This has to stop.
In an LDS context, there should be no one-on-one interviews, period. There should be no interviews on sexual explicit behavior, period.
Here's how to go about that:
For temple / "worthiness" interviews, 1) Explain, in general terms, what the law of chastity is. 2) Then simply ask, do you obey the law of chastity? A simple yes or no question. 3) If answered yes, great, if answered no, great. No follow-up explicit questioning, period, ever. If no, lay out a pathway to repentance.
This isn't hard. And it's absolutely mind-boggling and disgusting to consider WHY (I wish I could type the WHY in 1 Billion Size font!), WHY the @#$%* haven't we been doing this all along?
Uggghhhh, so many lives ruined, harmed....Can you tell this pisses me off?
New handbook discourages going into detail with confessions!
@@jaromjones7087 That's a start, though it should be prohibited.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire Thanks Prophet rodneyjamesmcguire , you left the faith and are trying to tell them how to run something you left, makes sense to me
I love Jennifer Roach!! What an important conversation
This podcast is sooooooo good!!! Keep it up Brother Jones!!!
One of your best Jennifer
Religious trauma & abuse is rampant and the reality & effects of abuse often gets spiritually bypassed. I wish leaders would have ears to hear the reality of harm and hurt that exists. I deeply desire leaders locally & globally be trained in more empathy skills as well as trauma-informed care. Leaders can not take the place of trauma therapists but many leaders end up doing more harm because of their ignorance. I have longed to help the Church address and alleviate harm but so much is ignored or "forgiven" -- especially without real change. We are bleeding members (particularly women) and I truly believe it could be triaged -- esp. if more women could be in rooms where decisions, policies, and impact occurs.
This is one of the many important reasons for gaining the direction of the Holy Ghost.
The other problem with reporting is if you do not have 100% proof that it took place..
If people think the abuser is safe, wonderful, and upstanding, won't believe you. They think you are crazy and will dismiss the accuser. Sometimes the predator portrays themselves as such a good friend to the family and the child as so troubled and they are the only ones helping them that leaders will assure the predator has access to the child, no matter what the parent does.
You report it to law enforcement and let THEM figure out if it's true or not. That's not your decision to make. Take steps to protect the innocent children, and they can handle it from there.
@@Kristy_not_Kristine we did and law enforcement took forever to act.
There's a lot to this. There was a man convicted of molesting children in my church growing up. My father took me aside and asked if he'd done anything to me. My reaction was shock and I couldn't believe it, he was such a nice guy, he was one or my hero's... Thankfully, he hadn't done anything to me, but in retrospect there was at least one situation were I may have been briefly evaluated by this man. Scary thinking of what could have happened. My point is it could can be extremely difficult to recognize and abuser.
It’s the only protection available for churches.
How about we try the background checks for a while?
Yes. Do both.
I think she made a pretty convincing case for why background checks don't really work and mostly just create a false sense of security.
Background checks periodically, and multiple leaders with all children. Perhaps 3 or 4 adults per group of kids, and maybe a parent or 2 who can volunteer to come, too.
Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker should be required reading by everyone who's in charge of kids(I know this is not feasible but I can hope).
I blame it on porn. This world is full of Bo the sexual predators and at the same time, lying accusers that ruin innocent men’s lives.
Interesting
The church doesn't have an abuse hotline. They have a legal protection hotline that protects the church legally. They're more concerned with the reputation and financial state of the church than they are with protecting vulnerable and abused people.
I'd like you to site your sources.
@@stevenelzinga8650 ask your bishop or stake president where their phone calls goes when they report abuse. Also also ask them of any situations they've heard of where a bishop or stake president phoned the police on someone when abuse was reported.
The phone call goes straight to kirton mcconkie.
I’d like sources on that also. If it’s true, that’s horrible. Yet I’ve never seen anything that backs this up.
There is a legal system that the church uses to help leaders. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t victim advocates. The poster is presenting it as a forced “either” “or” when both can be true at the same time.
@@stevenelzinga8650 I literally phoned the hotline number yesterday. Goes to a church office. I asked her if she then hands off the call to kirton mcconkie and she said yes. Nervously. I saw the section in the church handbook telling bishops and stake presidents to immediately call the hotline of abuse is reported. The church legal team gets the info first, which is an advantage for the church. The church local leadership almost never phone police and the church handbook also encourages LDS not to sue each other. Think about all this together. Ultimately it keeps abuse stories away from the legal system and helps it stay in the bishop's office and makes it so that few people know about abuse, one of those parties being church law firm and not the police or legal system.
This is such obvious desperate apologetics for the despicable current official LDS church.
1. You realize that there still are abusers with a criminal history right? They would catch people by checking records.
2. Why isn't the Spirit showing LDS leaders to not pick abusers for callings with children?
3. Why does the church continually HIDE abuse and cover for an abuser? I donno how many times I've seen where an abuser kept their calling and was defended by local leadership and sometimes they continued to abuse while in that calling.
how many times?
@@stevenelzinga8650he has no idea. These are just accusations pulled out of his rear end. The problem is that people like this read a couple of Instagram posts and think they have a JD and are subject matter experts. It's laughably sad.
@@davevine22the problem is actually people like you that don't want to admit that there are some serious crimes being covered up in the church to protect the churches name. They should be protecting the victims, not the pedophiles. What you have is called cognitive dissonance... open your eyes
Another reason why the church is true… lots of things we do in the church and we may not agree with 💯…. By being obedient with a complete faith that Christ is the head of this church, that’ll help us avoid being led astray.
Correction: *Latter-day Saint Researcher, not LDS 😁. Follow the Prophet, not the algorithm
Follow the prophets is NOT scriptural. What is are warnings to recognize false prophets and teachers.
At 9:14, she said “in OUR church” which means she is LDS .